Śrutakīrti: That man last night admitted. He said, "Now I must leave and do my fourth-class activities."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fourth class. This is the proof. Fourth-class men administering... Just like misadministration not immediately detected. After some time, when the case is unmanageable, it is detected. Therefore fourth-class men. Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society. Otherwise in the Hindu society separation between husband and wife is not even dreamt of. That, it cannot be. However there may be quarrelsome, but there is no question of separation. Husband and wife, they fight, everywhere. I have seen. My father and mother was fighting. I fought. (laughter) But there is no question of separation. Separation, they never think. Neither the husband can think of, nor the wife can think of. Even in the life of Gandhi there was fight between husband and wife, and the Gandhi one day drove his wife, "Get out from my home." So she was put into the street, and she began to cry, "Where shall I go?" And then Gandhi ans..., "Come on." Yes. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. The husband and wife may fight. It becomes a very serious thing, but don't take of it as serious. This is Hindu philosophy. Husband and wife quarrel should not be taken as very serious. They fight and again they live peacefully. Why this divorce? The divorce mean it kills the whole family life. The children goes away; the father goes away; the mother goes away. I have seen so many cases.
Amogha: Just like that girl who came two days ago, that Indian girl. Her parents were separated. Now she is living thousands of miles away with some boy.
Prabhupāda: They are this part of Indian, the Fiji Indians. They have learned the art of divorce.
Amogha: They are very Western, westernized.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how can the position be reconciled if in Kṛṣṇa consciousness one of the two, the husband or the wife, wants to enjoy sense gratification, but the other does not? Should there be separation then?
Prabhupāda: No... They should be trained up. Sense enjoyment means not advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as one is advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his sense enjoyment spirit will be reduced. That is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca (SB 11.2.42). The test is, how you are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the proportionate diminishing of sense enjoyment. That is the test. Just like cure of the disease means diminishing the fever, temperature. This is the test.
Devotee (1): What if that fever is not being diminished?
Prabhupāda: Then he should try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, instead of sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is the minimum. Otherwise Haridāsa Ṭhākura was 300,000. So you have to increase. That is the only remedy. If one has got determination, he will make progress without any trouble. That determination is very difficult, that determination, "I must be Kṛṣṇa conscious fully." That determination. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So they have asked to the central government, federal government, help?
Paramahaṁsa: In New York? Yes, they asked from the President, President Ford.
Prabhupāda: That is federal government.
Paramahaṁsa: Federal government, yes. And President Ford said no.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, he said no. He said, "If I give New York money then every city will come for money..."
Prabhupāda: Yes...
Paramahaṁsa: "...when they have some trouble." He said, "You made the trouble. Now you work it out."
Prabhupāda: That's good answer. "You fourth-class man, you have created the situation. Now you save the situation."
Paramahaṁsa: They used to borrow money from the banks every year, the city government of New York. They used to borrow money from the banks.
Prabhupāda: Bank has refused?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, they won't loan any more money because they know the tax money won't come in.
Prabhupāda: Just see the position. The bank is refusing loan to the municipal corporation, city corporation. They have no credit.
Śrutakīrti: So that means the city will increase their taxes on the public.
Prabhupāda: But if the public is moving from the city, where is the source of taxation?
Paramahaṁsa: That's the big problem. All the rich people are leaving because they're getting so much tax and so many other problems. And big business also is leaving.