Expressions researched:
"distinguish"
|"distinguishable"
|"distinguished"
|"distinguishes"
|"distinguishing"
|"distinguishment"
Woman Interviewer: Sorry, I didn't understand.
Prabhupāda: We do not want, depend on anyone's financial contributions. We depend on God, or Kṛṣṇa.
Woman Interviewer: So I wouldn't have to give any money at all.
Prabhupāda: No.
Woman Interviewer: Is this one of the main things that distinguishes a genuine guru from a fake guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. A genuine guru is not a business man. Our... (end)
Prabhupāda: That distinction is inconceivable. You cannot make clear distinction. Therefore it is called acintya.
Revatīnandana: The distinction between the soul and the body?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything. We distinguish matter and spirit. That distinction is inconceivable by you. You cannot make a clear distinction. Therefore it is called acintya bhedābheda tattva, inconceivable one and different, simultaneously.
Śyāmasundara: When you said that, once before, that the cells, all the cells in our body, each one is a living entity with a small body. Each one of those living entities covers itself with ignorance?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: It takes a small body made out of matter.
Revatīnandana: So there are many different manifestations of energies. It is the oneness that they're all Kṛṣṇa's energies. But there is also diversities.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say acintya bhedābheda. You cannot clearly distinguish. It is one and different, at the same time. It is spirit and not spirit. You have to take it like that.
Śyāmasundara: Somehow or other, we create our own ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Everything is like that. Everything is spirit but at the same time, not spirit. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4), "Everything is in Me, but I am not there." How is that everything is in Kṛṣṇa? How Kṛṣṇa is not there? He says like that.
Prabhupāda: Everyone needs money. Everyone needs. Who is not poor? Anyone find out. So many gentlemen sitting here. Who is not in need of food and money? You are also in need of money. So what do you distinguish poor and rich? Everyone needs. If that is your definition, if one needs money and food, everyone needs money and food. So everyone is poor.
Bob: So, but, well, I was thinking of terms of just people who are relatively poor.
Prabhupāda: No relatively. Relatively maybe. You are more hungry than me. But that does not mean you are not hungry or I am not hungry. I don't feel hungry now, that does not mean I do not feel hungry or I am not hungry. For the time being you may not be hungry. Tomorrow you'll be hungry.
Prabhupāda: No, that is another branch of, I mean to say, accepting matter as life. We have to distinguish them, that life is superior than matter. That we have to accept. You cannot say both of them are all the same. No. We have to distinguish them as superior, inferior.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why the scientists, when they are trying to find out the origin of life, they are concerned only on the matter, the elements, chemical elements and the chemical compounds, the molecules, not on the superior energy.
Prabhupāda: No, there is superior energy. The same example. Just like because I am now living, I am eating something, going to the stomach, the chemical action is going on. If I am dead, it will not. Therefore life is superior. On account of presence of life, the foodstuff which we are taking, that is being divided into different chemicals, some urine, some stool, some blood, and they are being utilized differently. So how can you say? But without life, such distinction will not act. Therefore life is superior. Even accepting life is also matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes, exactly like Nārāyaṇa. Their bodily features... Just like here, you cannot distinguish by the bodily feature who is President Nixon, who is a common man. You cannot distinguish by the bodily feature. Similarly, there also, you cannot distinguish who is a common man and who is Personality of Godhead. They are like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still, there are plants and all the living entities in the Vaikuṇṭha...
Prabhupāda: They know. Because they have full knowledge, "He knows here is God. Although he is four-handed, I am four-handed, but here is God." Because there is full knowledge. That is the difference. Here we are selecting some rascal as God, because we have no full knowledge. There, in the Vaikuṇṭha planets, although the common citizens and God is of the same feature of the bodily, but they know, "Here is God, the Supreme." He has got special signs in the... Yes, that's all. Just like the king or the president, we may make mistake.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, I see. You mean just as you distinguish from white, black because it is different...
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is relative world.
Mr. Wadell: I agree, but I am using this in, as an example, not as an absolute description. I think my view—may I explain this—of the whole of which I am, as I say, I think, an imperfect part, a part which is trying to learn something which I am not even quite sure what it is that I am trying to learn...
Prabhupāda: No, no, this is... You are perfect gentleman, means that you say that "I am imperfect." That is nice. But our point is that from imperfect man, imperfect knowledge is received. We cannot expect perfect knowledge from imperfect man.
Mr. Wadell: No. But where does your perfect knowledge come from and how do you recognize it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very important point, where to get the perfect knowledge. That is wanted. That is intelligence. Therefore the Vedas says, gurum eva abhigacchet: "You go to a guru." "Guru" means heavy, who knows better than you, or who knows perfect. That is injunction.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith means acceptance. When you accept, then your faith begins. If you have got hesitation, then the faith has not begun. Or it is on the hazy state. (pause) Get the lights on.
Revatīnandana: So in the human life the distinguishing feature is that his spiritual independence can show itself; whereas the animal is completely under the modes, but the human being, the modes' influence is reduced sufficiently so that he can make this decision, from, whether to accept or reject Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Animals also can be delivered, provided he follows a devotee.
Guest (11): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They like this chanting and dancing. So we are, our business is to awake the sleeping man. Sleeping man means when you sleep you have no knowledge. If somebody kills you, you cannot protect yourself. Sleeping, that is sleeping stage, that we do not know what is happening. That is called sleeping stage. Even if you are so-called awakened, if you do not know the value of life, that is sleeping stage. That is sleeping stage. So in that sleeping stage, we are trying to awake the human society. A man, a human being, may be materially very qualified, but he does not know what is the value of human life, he's sleeping. He's sleeping. Can you distinguish...? You are all educationists. What is the difference between a human being and an animal?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence?
Prabhupāda: No, I have already explained. What is not God? That is already explained. Anything you bring, He is, God is there. Without God, nothing can exist. So why this or that? Anything, that is God. But He's absolute. His love and His enmity, that is the same thing. We distinguish, here in this material world, "This is love and this is animosity." But God's animosity and God's love—the same thing. That is acintya. Here in the relative world we cannot adjust how animosity and love can be the same, one and the same. That is acintya, inconceivable by us. But God's love... Just like God's love for the gopīs and God's enmity for Kaṁsa, they're reaching the same result. Both of them are going to the spiritual world. Just like Pūtanā and Mother Yaśodā. Pūtanā came to poison Kṛṣṇa, and Mother Yaśodā is always anxious to save Kṛṣṇa, naughty child. He may not be hurt. So two opposite things. But both of them got the same result. Kṛṣṇa thought that "I have sucked her breast, so she is My mother. She must go to the same destination as Yaśodā Mā." Just see. That is His enmity. And that is absolute. In our relative world, we can see so many differences in the dealings of God, but He is absolute, one. That is conception of God. Advaita. Advaita. Advaita means absolute. And... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). Again advayam. You may conceive God as impersonal or localized Paramātmā or Bhagavān—the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda. "Don't drink." So if people give up drinking, automatically the drinking business will be closed.
Prabhupāda: No, guru is considered as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Guru-rūpa kṛṣṇa hana avatāra. Just to teach the conditioned soul, guru comes himself, er, Kṛṣṇa comes Himself in the form of guru. Therefore we sing in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's prayer, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ: "In every śāstra, guru is accepted as directly Kṛṣṇa." Sākṣāt. Sākṣāt means directly. Sākṣād-dharitvena: As Kṛṣṇa, is accepted in every śāstra, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **, it is said, uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **, and this statement is accepted by advanced devotees. It is not only statement, but it is accepted. But the next question is: "Does it mean that guru is Kṛṣṇa? Therefore no more Kṛṣṇa wanted?" No. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "Guru is exalted because he is very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa." Here it is clear. Not that he is respected as Kṛṣṇa, therefore he has become Kṛṣṇa. This is Māyāvāda: "He has become Kṛṣṇa." No. Kintu: "But don't think that there is no more Kṛṣṇa, finished. Guru is here." Just like the Māyāvādīs say, just like this rascal Guruji, that "I am Kṛṣṇa." Not that. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. He is the most confidential servant. Vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. This is clear explanation. Although he is respected as good as Kṛṣṇa, but he never says that "I am Kṛṣṇa." He says, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." And actually he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we distinguish in this line that sevya-bhagavān and sevaka-bhagavān: "worshipable God and worshiper God." You follow? God, but worshiper God.
Prabhupāda: Relativity, relativity, law of Relativity. What is, what is food for one is death for other, the same thing. So how you can say the food is good or bad? Is it not? "One man's food, another man's poison." So how you can distinguish this is food or poison? One man will say, "No, it is food." Another man will say, "It is poison." So how you'll distinguish? So this good and bad is simply mental speculation. Because it is in the material platform, there is nothing good. Everything is bad. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). In the name of "dharma," so many rascaldom is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. It is not dharma. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: (SB 1.1.2) "This cheating type of religious system is rejected from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." All so-called religions, they're simply cheating. Cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Everything is cheating. They say, "We are advancing." What you are advancing? The problem, birth-death, is there. So what is the meaning of your advancement? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is another thing. On the path of reality, you come.
Hanumān: On the path?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a process. When the process is complete, then you'll come to the reality. But that is the process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). We cannot distinguish now reality and non-reality because the heart is unclean. So we have to cleanse, and then we come to the reality.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For that matter, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when one comes to that stage, there is no difference between animate and inanimate. Is that true?
Prabhupāda: Highest stage?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Highest stage, everything animate.
Prabhupāda: No, that is their foolishness. That is their foolishness. They do not know, they do not distinguish what is misery and what is happiness. They have no sense, no brain. That is their foolishness.
Nitāi: So we can convince them by pointing out...?
Prabhupāda: They cannot convince them because they are so rascal, so foolish, that they have no brain to understand what is the distinction. They have no brain. Just like cats and dogs. That is their fallen condition. Yes.
Sudāmā: They believe that this misery is good.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have explained. Unless they believe it is good, how they can be put in to miserable condition? Just like some of the thieves. They go to jail. They think, "It is very nice. We haven't got to earn. We are getting food here, free of charge. Yes, it is very nice place. It is my father-in-law's house." (laughs) So unless they believe, how they can tolerate such tribulations? The worm in the stool, he believes, "This is enjoyment." You take it from the stool, put it here, no, it will go again. It thinks it is pleasurable. That is their position.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): ...to my eyes.
Prabhupāda: Then you have to distinguish which is impure and which is pure.
Guest (1): That's very difficult.
Guest (3): I don't know what your saying.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (3): That there can be an impurity of the soul?
Guest (1): He was asking...
Prabhupāda: You said. You said purity of the soul. That means there must be the contradictory: impurity of soul. Then now we have to distinguish which is impure, which is pure.
Devotee: How can we distinguish?
Prabhupāda: No, no, everything is matter, that is all right.
Dr. Patel: That's right. That is what I want to say.
Prabhupāda: No, that I admit! That I admit. That is the difficulty of the Māyāvādīs. They cannot distinguish the varieties.
Guest (3): Land is the whole Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Māyāvādī...
Dr. Patel: Whenever it is (?) a question of matter is evolved from māyā. So we are Māyāvādīs, all of you and me.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: Yes, because we are talking of māyā.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Māyā means śakti. Māyā means śakti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. His physiognomy is sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1). That we can understand. Sac-cid-ānanda. He is eternal, He is full of knowledge and He is blissful. Sac-cid-ānanda. Your body, my body, is just opposite. It is not eternal, it is temporary. And it is full of ignorance. Therefore we require knowledge. (aside:) Little away, yes. So this is full of ignorance, and there are so many miseries. So Kṛṣṇa hasn't got a body like this. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So we can distinguish what is Kṛṣṇa's body and what is our body. (break) ...understand. Try to understand, that what is the nature... That is called spiritual body. So we have got also similar body, but very small, very small. That is covered by this material body. And because in the spiritual body I am person, I have got form, therefore the material elements have taken a form. Just like when your coat is made, it is made according to your body. Because you have got hands, so the coat has got a hand. But the hand of the coat is not real. The real hand is within the coat. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Within. These foolish people, they do not understand. They take, "This is hand. This is hand." He does not know that this hand is artificial, outward. Real hand is within. This is their misconception. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand. These are very important question. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because within the coat the real man is there, therefore the dress has assumed two hands, two legs, one collar, like that. But this is false, like dress.
Yogeśvara: He's asking, "How do we see ourselves and how is it that we intentionally distinguish ourselves by dressing differently, by having a different presentation than the rest of society."
Guru-gaurāṅga: Given the fact that all others, they are loving God too, the same principle, Christianity...
Prabhupāda: No, symptoms must be there. If you love God, then you should love everything of God. You cannot distinguish that "These are human beings. They should be given service, and the animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse." That is not love of God. That means he does not know what is God. He is still unaware of God. Just like father. Father has got ten sons. Out of them, one is very intelligent or two are very intelligent; others are fools. And if the intelligent sons propose to the father, "Father, these are useless sons. Let me kill," will the father agree? So God is father of all living entities. He is providing food for the animal, for the man, because He is father. There is, in the jungle of Africa elephants. They are eating at a time hundred kilos. The father is providing. And the ant, a small ant, is eating one grain of sugar. He is providing. Within the hole of your room there are millions of ants. The father is providing food for them. That is God. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one is providing all necessities of life to everyone, all living entities. That is God. So if I know God, then I can know also that all of them are sons of God and God is providing all their necessities of life. What right I have got to kill them?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Robert Gouiran: No, because I don't know anything...
Prabhupāda: Then where is the healing? If there is disease, this disease... You simply distinguish from this disease to that disease.
Robert Gouiran: So how do you call a temporary...
Prabhupāda: That is admitted. That is admitted. I say you may have some temporary healing effect, but there is no healing. That is our point.
Robert Gouiran: So you call it temporary healing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. But there is no healing.
Robert Gouiran: So what do you think about temporary healing?
Prabhupāda: Temporary means temporary healing. That's all. (indistinct) Ultimately, you cannot heal. But you're satisfied by temporary heal. But we want complete healing. No more disease.
Yogeśvara: I can remember now. When I was in college, there were so many groups trying to reform the young people, the Y.M.C.A, the church groups, so many different social-working groups, trying to make young people become more, not so restless, not so much wild, but no, nothing. Couldn't do a thing. I remember I used to go to school when I was in college once a week to take care of one young boy because he was making so much trouble. They asked if some student from the university would come to see with him and talk with him once a week, to go out and go to the park and so on. So I used to see him, and he would be in school, and when I would come, all of the children would be the same way. I couldn't distinguish him from the others. They were all wild. And then they said, "Oh, he's the one, there."
Prabhupāda: Is there any other meeting?
Jyotirmayī: Yes. It will be later. It will be at six-fifteen, in forty-five minutes. The man coming, will be a psychiatrist.
Karandhara: But they don't have the same historical... I don't think they're considered the same historical personality. I studied Zen myself a number of years, and they don't distinguish one particular individual in one particular period of time as being the Buddha. All the way back in history as long as history goes, any man who's come to the state of enlightenment has become a Buddha. It didn't begin anywhere. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says he doesn't give any special meaning to Buddha. Sometimes Buddha is with them, sometimes Buddha is a concept of God like the Christianity they call God, or Buddha is all this disciplic succession. He doesn't give any special meaning to the word Buddha.
Prabhupāda: No, no, buddha, actually buddha means knowledge, "one who knows," that is the meaning. So that is existing always. Now, we are talking your (sic:) Jain Buddha. Jain Buddha. No? What is the...?
Karandhara: Zen. Zen's a later development. The school of Zen started...
Prabhupāda: So we are trying to study this Zen Buddha. Buddha means, ordinarily, knowledge. Budhā bhāva-saman... (break) (French)
Prabhupāda: We take this body—dead always. This body is actually dead. Just like this microphone is made of iron. It is iron. When it is working, responding, at that time also it is iron. And when it is out of order, does not work, it is also iron. Similarly, this body is working on account of the living force within. When the living force is out, it is called dead. But actually it is dead always. The living force is the important thing. That is making him alive. Actually alive or dead, it is dead matter. But the living force is the active principle. That is distinguishing this body as dead or alive. But factually it is dead always. That is the beginning of instruction, Bhagavad-gītā: "Arjuna, you are lamenting for this body, but the body is dead." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). So unless we know that... (aside:) Don't make "cut-cut." The dead body is not the subject matter of study either it is in working order or it is in dead order. The subject matter of study is the active principle which makes the dead body moving. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Read that portion.
Prabhupāda: It is very simple thing. Just like a body is moving, and body is not moving. So there is an active principle which makes the body moving, and when it is absent, it is not moving. Now, the question will be: "What is that active principle?" Athāto brahma jijñāsā. First of all let him distinguish what is the difference between this dead body and living body. If a student is unaware of it, he can see that on account of the active principle, the body is changing, the body is moving, and in the absence of the active principle, neither the body changes, neither moves. Just like in our childhood we used to think that the gramophone box, there is a man, and he is speaking from the box. This is a childish suggestion only, but similarly, anyone can think that within this body there is something which is making the body moving. It is not very big philosophy.
Professor Durckheim: No, that's quite clear.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can understand. So our students are taught on the principle of Bhagavad-gītā that the body is always dead. The body is simply just like a machine, a big machine. This machine, it is dead, but as soon as I push the button it works. Similarly, the body is dead, but within the body, the life or the active principle, so long it is there, it is responding. Just like we are talking. I am asking my student, "Come here." He comes. But as soon as the active principle is out, I will ask him for thousands of years, "Come here"—he will not come. It is very simple to distinguish. Now, what is that active principle, that is a separate subject matter to understand. And that is the beginning of spiritual knowledge. This is our learning.
Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? It is quite clear for our rational mind, I can understand there is a dead body, and there must be something in him, enough to make it alive. Now, the conclusion, I say there are two things, that my question was how he becomes aware in himself as an experience, not as conclusion, because I realize that on the inner way it becomes important more and more to feel deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper realities. That's why in my little work I make a distinction between the body you have and the body you are. The English language says, talks about "somebody" and "something." "Somebody" means a person. So the body you are. It's the whole of the gestures wherein you express and you present and you miss or you realize your real self. So the body you are.
Prabhupāda: Transcendence means the Absolute Truth. What do you mean by transcendence?
Professor: By transcendence, I understand it, the universal consciousness. The search for God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, right you are. This life, human life, is distinguished from animal life because the animal cannot inquire about transcendence. The human life, if it is not interested in transcendence, then he is animal. If simply he is interested with the bodily demands of life, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense, these are bodily demands of life. So if we think that "Dog is eating on the street, and we are eating very palatable dishes, nicely made, very tasteful. That is advancement of civilization," that is not advancement of civilization because it is, after all, eating. Similarly, sleeping; the animals sleep on the street and we sleep in very nice apartment. But in sleeping, we dream horrible things more than the animals. So eating, sleeping, sex life and trying for defense, these are common formulas both for the animals and for the man. Therefore a human being is distinguished from the animal when he enquires about transcendence. And that is explained in the great literature Brahma-sūtra, or the philosophy of Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now we have got this human form of life. We must enquire about the Brahman, or transcendence." So our bodily necessities of life should be simplified as much as it is required.
Prabhupāda: Or if that hall is...? (break)
Hṛdayānanda: (Spanish)
Prabhupāda: Now let us distinguish what is limited or what is unlimited. I am asking these gentlemen.
Guest: (Spanish)
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Keep Bhagavad-gītā in hand, yes. That's it.
Guest (Hṛdayānanda): So he is saying that this material world is a combination of so many different elements, intelligence, so on and so forth. And in the center of all of this, the essence is that which is eternal. And this eternal thing cannot have any name because then it would be limited, and that would be a contradiction. And also it has no form.
Prabhupāda: No, that eternity, that is nice, that the material world is temporary, and the eternity is spiritual. That is clear understanding. Material elements, just like earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, ego, intelligence, and the spiritual element is which is utilizing these material elements. Do you admit this?
Prabhupāda: A devotee means, real devotee means, he has no purpose for material gain. That is real devotee. Now we have to see what kind of devotee he is. There are two kinds of devotees: with purpose and without purpose. The "without purpose" devotee is pure devotee, and "with purpose" devotee, they are material devotee. That is distinguished in Bhagavad-gītā,
There are pious men and sinful men. Sinful men cannot become devotee. Pious men can become devotee.
Atreya Ṛṣi: All the creation, the material creation, is made of five elements.
Yoga student: What is the fifth besides earth, air, fire and water?
Prabhupāda: Ether.
Yoga student: Ether. How does ether distinguish...
Prabhupāda: The sky. Ether is... Presence of ether by sound.
Yoga student: How is ether distinct from air?
Prabhupāda: Ether you cannot feel touch. Air you can feel touch.
Parivrājakācārya: Based on the sense perception. On this planet, the bodies are made of earth. But there are other places, other planets, where the physical body is composed of a different combination. So one is predominantly air, another can be fire, another water, ether.
Yoga student: But is ether a gross element as well?
Prabhupāda: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better. And if we are not following the laws, the judgment will not be in favor. This is natural to conclude. Then we have to judge what is sin, what is piety, how to be pious, how one becomes sinful. So many things will come.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: What is the fifth element after earth, air, fire and water?
Prabhupāda: Ether.
Guest: Ether. How does ether distinguish...?
Prabhupāda: Sky. Ether is, presence of ether, by sound.
Guest: How is ether distinct from air?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: How is ether distinct from air?
Prabhupāda: Ether you cannot feel touch, (in) air you can feel touch.
Prabhupāda: That distinction the hogs and dogs cannot make. That is for human beings.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What happens if a human being can't distinguish...
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā, that he cannot make any distinction. Both the same. That is māyā. Māyā-mohitaḥ. Just like on the street, there it is signboard: "Keep to the left." The hogs and dogs cannot do it. But human beings can do. That is the distinction between hogs and dogs and human being. Human being is supposed to make distinction. And the hogs and dogs are supposed not to make any distinction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sign: "No dogs allowed."
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: If you compare the animals and the trees as the same, then why not kill yourself, your brother? Why do you distinguish? Why don't you slaughter your own son? Why do you distinguish?
Gaṇeśa: He's a relative.
Prabhupāda: You discriminate. If you are slaughtering animals and you are comparing that killing of the vegetables and the killing of the animals is the same, then killing your son and killing an animal is also the same. Why do you discriminate? Just kill your own son and eat.
Paramahaṁsa: He's a human being, though.
Prabhupāda: Where they have got it?
Hari-śauri: ...that this type of personality was existing millions of years ago. (break)
Amogha: Of the 400,000 human species, what is the distinguishing characteristic that makes one different from another? How could we recognize them, or could we?
Prabhupāda: You have not seen varieties of men?
Amogha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, what is the...
Amogha: Well is it divided by country or within one country there are many species?
Prabhupāda: You are taking of country, but the śāstra takes of the planets, not of the country. Your idea is very crippled: country, national. But śāstra is not... There is no such thing as national. They take the whole universe as a whole. They consider from that angle of vision. These crippled ideas, "state," "national," has come later on. There was no such thing previously. One planet or universe, like that. Just like last night the girl was astonished that "How this planet can be governed by one king?" It was being actually done. And the whole universe is being governed by Brahmā, one person. So one must know how to govern.
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...the colleges and high schools now that the teachers appreciate the philosophy much more than the students. They have more brain substance, and it's even a possibility many of them will actually become devotees if they have more association because devotees are practically the only intelligent people that they ever get to talk to. Even the other members of the faculty, they are not so intelligent to talk to them. But we went to see one philosopher. He's written seventeen books and he's a distinguished professor of philosophy. We talked to him for three hours, a very famous... His books are used all over the country. He said, "My philosophy is closest to this Hare Kṛṣṇa philosophy, after you've explained it to me." He will be coming back. He's going on tour. He's retiring. We're also going to try to get him to come to Berkeley.
Revatīnandana: Is that the one at Pomona College?
Dharmādhyakṣa: No, this is another one at U.S.C., University of Southern California.
Prabhupāda: So some professors wanted to see me?
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, accepting that there is a eternal soul, how is the soul distinguished, then, from the body or from the machine since things like the senses, the mind, the intelligence, desire and hate, which people accept as the symptoms of the soul...
Prabhupāda: That is the proof, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body is finished, no more working, the soul is there, he has accepted another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are educated, sober they are not surprised. Those who are not educated, they are surprised. Therefore this very word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He knows the soul has now left this body. He has accepted another body. That is dhīra. He knows by education. Therefore this very word... Find out.
Prabhupāda: That's it. He does not lament. "No, this body is no more useful." Just like this dress is no more useful. Throw it away. Accept another dress. But dress is old, now it is useless, that does not (mean) you are useless. You accept another dress. That's all.
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, but my question was what distinguishes the soul from the body? Because here we're mentioning everything that is the field of activity, but then what is the soul?
Prabhupāda: He is acting on the field. If the field is not acting, the soul is not there. Just like field, agricultural field, when you see the food grains are growing, the grass is there nicely, the paddy is growing nicely, you know, "Somebody is working." And in the jungle, where there is no paddy field, it is simply jungle, you know nobody is working. Where is the difficulty? When these things are in working order, then you know the soul is there. And it is decomposing, lying on the field and birds are coming, eating, dogs are biting—that means the soul is not there. This is distinction. Where is the difficulty? When the motor car is standing on the middle road, you know, "There is no driver. It is left over." Although the big machine, but because there is no driver, it is lying uncared for.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly, we disassociate. We have no very good opinion.
Lt. Mozee: It would seem to me that it would be a very difficult thing...
Prabhupāda: Yes, for others to distinguish.
Lt. Mozee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But one has to see by the result.
Lt. Mozee: Um hm.
Prabhupāda: Phalena paricīyate. It is very difficult to distinguish which is good medicine, which is bad medicine. By the effect. Thank you.
Lt. Mozee: I thank you for your time, sir.
Prabhupāda: Give him this garland.
Brahmānanda: And it says here, "Birth, old age, disease and death." What is this? "The Bhagavad-gītā we find information that besides earth, water, fire, air, space as well as the mind, intelligence and false ego, there exists a superior energy form. That superior energy is called ātmā, the self. There is an obvious difference between you and the ground. That factor that distinguishes the animate from the inanimate is consciousness. That consciousness or awareness of being is proof of the existence of the self."
Prabhupāda: Very nice. This is the library? No.
Bahulāśva: No, just student union. Around three thousand dollars of books were sold yesterday.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And sweets?
Bahulāśva: Oh, around five thousand. (laughter) The tongue is most voracious.
Yadubara: I talked to one boy yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was there at the festival because he had found your books in the school library. And he said now he was saved.
Prabhupāda: Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Those who are saintly persons, they always see Kṛṣṇa within his heart. Everyone can see if he tries. Why you and me? Anyone can see. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. But He is not open to the rascals. That is Kṛṣṇa's distinguish... Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). He is open to everyone, but not to all others, only to the devotee.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Paramātmā feature is in the heart.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): And the pure devotee, does he see the Paramātmā feature or does he see...?
Prabhupāda: When you see Kṛṣṇa, you see Paramātmā, Brahman, everything. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). If you see... Just like when you see the sun, you see sunlight also. The sun... We see the sun globe, the sun light, simultaneously. Nobody says, "I am seeing the sun but not the sunshine." Is it? (laughter) He is seeing everything. He is seeing everything.
Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that Bhagavad-gītā begins to distinguish the soul...
Dr. Patel: From the body.
Prabhupāda: And the body. But Gandhi has never said anywhere.
Dr. Patel: He was always, you know, anāsakta-yoga.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right, but...
Dr. Patel: He always used to, daily, twice...
Prabhupāda: In the beginning this is the... You can have any yoga, anāsakti or āsakti, but the primary instruction is one has to understand first of all this, that one is not this body. And the national movement is based on this bodily concept of life. "I am Indian."
Dr. Patel: All the national... All the world's on that body.
Prabhupāda: He is animal. That's all. Sa eva gokharaḥ. That is the verdict of the śāstra. Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke: (SB 10.84.13) "Anyone who considers this body made of three elements—kapha, pitta, vayu—as self," yasyātm-buddhi kuṇape tri-dhātuke svadhiḥ kalatradiṣu, "and the accidental combination of family members, they are own kinsmen," sva-dhiḥ kala..., bhauma idyadhiḥ, "and the land in which they are born, that is worshipable..." That is nationalism, so-called nationalism. Bhauma idyadhiḥ yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile: "And going to the pilgrimage, taking the water as very important," yat tīrtha buddhiḥ na karhicij janeṣv abhijaneṣu, "and they do not care for the learned, experienced saintly person," sa eva gokharaḥ, "such person is nothing but cows and asses." That's all. If one does not know that he is not this body, he is different from body, so that sort of knowledge is there amongst the dogs. So why he should be distinguished from the dog? The basic knowledge is the same.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are not happy. Otherwise one who knows "I am Brahman," brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā—he will be happy always. That has become fashion. "Table chair brahma-jñāna," sitting on the table-chair, smoking and talking of Brahman. "Armchair brahma-jñāna." Although Kṛṣṇa is giving information, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu... mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54), so they do not make further progress, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param, to achieve that platform of bhakti. Therefore it is as good as no knowledge. These will be the symptoms of brahma-jñāna, na śocati na kāṅ..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. If they have got brahma-jñāna, then why they should distinguish? Just like in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, so he is designated as mahātmā, but why he was against the Englishmen, to drive them away? That is not brahma-jñāna. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. They are as good. As these white people, they do not give any chance to the other people, so similarly, Mahatma Gandhi also, he wanted that "These white people should go away." So what is the distinction? The same knowledge. "You want me ... to drive me away; I want to drive you away." So what is the distinction between you and me? The one dog is barking at another dog; another dog is barking, another dog. That's all. Where is knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Hm. All of them, M.D.?
Dr. Patel: M.D. Very distinguished, first class. I was very much pleased... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...one is animal. So animal means ferocious. Dharmeṇa yena pasave samānaḥ. They're as good as animal. You cannot expect any good behavior from animals. This is going on. They want to keep the whole population animal, and they're making big, big plans-United Nations, this, that.
Dr. Patel: This is a problem. It's committed from the poor nations of the world, this United Nations.
Prabhupāda: There is no education for making people a human being.
Prabhupāda: But because you have accepted this material body, you are foolishly thinking that you are not eternal. Otherwise, as God is eternal, you are also eternal.
Acyutānanda: Then why should one be distinguished from another if they are both eternal?
Prabhupāda: Just like the sun distinguished from the sunshine, but qualitatively heat and light is there. But because sunshine is there, you cannot say sun is there. That you cannot say. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Clearly said.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: I think, Swamijī, you explained this, and I could draw rationality from it, that "I am īśa, but not I am sarveśa. I am ātman but not Paramātman."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: "I am aṁśa but not Paramāṁśa."
Bhavānanda: "All the desires for future work of Śrīla Prabhupāda Sarasvatī Ṭhākura used to come to the present ācāryadeva as an impulse first, which he translated into action at once. In spite of a hundred hindrances from so-called religionists with a vision of a future worldwide mission, Śrīla Prabhupāda established Śrī Caitanya Maṭha at Śrī Māyāpur, the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, on the Phālguna Pūrṇimā day, the seventh March, 1918, which was a red-letter day in the history of theistic religious revival in this age. He started a countrywide movement to carry the message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu to every door. In a hectic manner within a couple of years he preached Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism throughout India and sent disciples to England, Germany, and other parts of Europe and Burma to preach the message of Śrī Caitanya and establish sixty-four branches under the name of Śrī Gauḍīya Maṭha throughout India and abroad, and a vast literature flowed through his versatile pen. The large number of publications in different languages and the vigorous missionary activities and door-to-door preaching by the sannyāsīs and brahmacārīs of the Maṭha, who held meetings in the remotest villages, duly spread Śrī Caitanya's teachings, which today are followed in every part of India. His songs are sung in chorus and a great interest is created among the intelligentsia of India. After having become the president of the institution..." In this last paragraph, all of these activities of Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, there is no mention of his name. His whole mission, there is actually no mention of his name, that he is the one who has done it. "After having become the president of the institution, Śrīla Bhaktivilāsa Tīrtha Gosvāmī Mahārāja has been traveling throughout India and Pakistan preaching the devotional cult of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he has come in contact with many savants of present India who are all struck with reverent admiration for his deep knowledge of philosophy. Dr. Rādhākamal Mukherjee, vice chancellor of Lucknow University, remarks, 'There is no more distinguished and erudite interpreter of Śrī Caitanya's Vaiṣṇava thought than His Holiness Śrīla Bhaktivilāsa Tīrtha Gosvāmī Mahārāja.' "
Prabhupāda: And what is Rādhākamal Mukherjee?
Prabhupāda: But there is no remnants; we sell everything. Generally when there is some remaining copies, the publisher bound it up for future sale, reference. (break) Vedānta-sūtra, that is the topmost philosophy. So that first verse, athāto brahma jijñāsā. In this human form of life there is no other business—simply to inquire about Brahman. This is the fact. If anyone wants to fulfill the human form of life as distinguished from animal life, this is the only business, brahma-jijñāsā. And the whole civilization is on this basis. Therefore first brahmacārī, how to understand Brahman. So the children of human society is trained up, same principle, how to understand Brahman. So yesterday with that gentleman I told, "Where you got the sand?" Our beginning talk was that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where you got the?
Prabhupāda: Sand.
Devotee (1): This is the largest professor in Sanskrit in the whole United States, from Harvard University.
Satsvarūpa: Most distinguished of all men.
Ghanaśyāma: He never writes reviews for anyone, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but he wrote for you. He just refuses. He hides himself, you know.
Prabhupāda: What? Tell me. What does he say?
Satsvarūpa: "I can recommend Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta as a source of rich insights for every serious student of consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Allen Ginsberg.
Satsvarūpa: Sometimes there are professors of English, all different departments, appreciating.
Devotee (1): This man was selected to the World Council of Churches for the representative of Hinduism in their large meeting, and he just recently did a review on your Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: What he says?
Prabhupāda: Next year the Chinese men must come.
Hṛdayānanda: Chinese bhaktas.
Madhudviṣa: Chinese and Russian.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Russian, you cannot distinguish, but Chinese can be distinguished.
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: From the face.
Madhudviṣa: Just like the Manipur people come sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is same stock.
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Reporter (1): Sir, I am asking what is sinful activity.
Prabhupāda: You do not know?
Reporter (1): I don't know. Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish.
Prabhupāda: If you go on the street and it is, there is, "Keep to the left," as soon as you go to the right, you suffer. Is it not? Immediately you go to the court. Is it not suffering? No, no, just try to understand.
Reporter (1): No, sir, I just wanted to ask you...
Prabhupāda: No, no, why wonder? You just try to understand this common sense, that as soon as you go to the street, if the indication is that you must keep your car on the left side and as soon as you go to the right side, you become a criminal immediately. You can say, "What is the wrong? The right side or wrong side, I am driving my car," but it is criminal. You know or not know. Ignorance of law is no excuse. So just similarly there is law of God. So as soon as you violate, you must suffer. You see?
Prabhupāda: Now, if you should take good family means wealthy family, then America, there is no poor family. There is no question of poverty. So how do you distinguish that he's coming from good family, he's coming from bad family? Poverty is unknown to them. Nobody is uneducated. Then how you distinguish who is bad and who is good? Everyone is good—unless he voluntarily becomes bad, hippie. Otherwise everyone is coming from very good family, rich family, educated family.
Reporter (2): Do you have a large number of American negroes in your movement, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: Not large number, but there are.
Reporter (2): Is there any reason why that is so?
Nalinīkaṇṭha:
"Therefore, while in material existence (bhavam āśritaḥ), a person fully competent to distinguish wrong from right must endeavor to achieve the highest goal of life as long as the body is stout and strong and is not embarrassed by dwindling." (Purport) "As stated by Prahlāda Mahārāja at the beginning of this chapter, kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. The word prājña refers to one who is experienced and who can distinguish right from wrong. Such a person should not waste his energy and valuable human lifetime simply working like a cat or dog to develop his economic condition."
Prabhupāda: Modern education, they cannot understand that this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease is a botheration. They do not understand that. Why they accept it? Accept it, they think there is no other way. But if there is a way to stop this, why do they not take it? Hm? What is the value of this education? They cannot distinguish between right and wrong. Nobody likes death, but death is there. Nobody likes to become old, but the old age is there. Why they set aside these big problems and he's proud of scientific advancement of knowledge? What kind of education this is? If they cannot distinguish between right and wrong, then what is the result of this education? Education means one must be able to distinguish between the right and wrong.
Prabhupāda: So this brahma-bhūta stage is spiritual stage. We want to bring everyone to this spiritual stage. That is the sum and substance. We are not on the material stage. Therefore it is little difficult to understand. Everyone is on the material stage, but we are working on the spiritual stage. But the spirit and matter, we can distinguish. Without the spirit, the body is nothing but lump of matter. The spirit is there, the matter is there, but we are so dull, we do not understand what is that spirit. That is the difficulty of the modern society. This is the most important thing. Without the spirit the body cannot move. They are daily experiencing that without spirit the body is nothing, decomposed matter. But still they are simply licking up that decomposed matter without taking care of the spiritual. This is the most defective position of the modern society. So it is not a Hindu religion or Christian religion. It is a science to understand.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We even see that among the so-called God conscious communities in the world, still there are such horrible activities going on, fighting.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we don't say that fighting will stop. We are distinguishing demons and rogues, uh, demigods. If you fight, demon, I must defend myself. What can I do? If you start war, you are demon, shall I stop: "No, no, I am demigod, I'll not fight. You kill me"? Is that intelligent? I'll have to fight. But the war starts by the implication of the demons. The Kurukṣetra war, it was not started by Arjuna. It was started by Duryodhana. (long pause) All right, go on.
Prabhupāda: These are, will be declining. These are the, I mean to say, human assets which makes a human being distinct from the animals. But these things will decline. There will be no mercifulness, there will be no truthfulness, the memory will be shortened, duration life shortened. Similarly religion will vanish. So that means gradually they will come to the platform of animals. And especially when there is no religion, it is simply animals. That any common man can distinguish, that... a dog does not understand what is religion. He's also a living being. He's not interested what is going on here about Bhagavad-Gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is not interested. That is the distinction between dog and man. The animal is not interested. So if the human being becoming disinterested in religious things, then they are animals. And how there can be happiness, peace, in the animal society? They want to keep people as animal, and they are making United Nations. How it is possible?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process recommended in the śāstras one should be elevated to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdra. Śudra means one who cannot take any reformation. But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says pāpa-yoni? Pāpa-yoni. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. They are also taken as pāpa-yoni. And what to speak of the śūdras and caṇḍālas? They must be pāpa-yoni. Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaiṣṇava, a dvija.
Prabhupāda: These boys are playing with Kṛṣṇa. Who is Kṛṣṇa? He is the essence of Brahma-sukha, Param Brahman. So these boys are playing with Param Brahman. Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena. And for the devotees He's the supreme master, and for the ordinary man He is ordinary child. But these other children who are playing, they have got this position kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many births' pious activities, now I have got this position, playing with Kṛṣṇa on equal terms." So this is the conception of devotional service, that when you go to the Goloka Vṛndāvana you cannot distinguish.... But they have got unflinching love for Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana life. The cows, the calves, the trees, the flowers, the water, the elderly men, Nanda Mahārāja and Yaśodāmayī, everyone is attached, central point is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is loving Kṛṣṇa. And there is no such knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality.... Sometimes they see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities and they talk on: "Kṛṣṇa may be some demigod. He has come here." But they could never recognize that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Kṛṣṇa passed some dangerous position, so many demons were coming, mother Yaṣodā was chanting some mantras to protect Kṛṣṇa that "He may not be put into some calamity." They never understood that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality. But their natural love for Kṛṣṇa so intense. Therefore Vṛndāvana life is so exalted. Arādha... What is called? Arādhyo bhagavān vrajeṣa-tanāya tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam.
Prabhupāda: That is also animals, less, still more in dense darkness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other point along this line, we also wanted to, even in the same animal or bird kingdom...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You can very minutely distinguish, this is the general division. Then there is minute division. That is numbering about 8,400,000.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Under that category, that minor divisions, now let's take the animals. Even in the animal kingdom, there are some animals which are influenced...
Prabhupāda: From the animals down, it is all ignorance.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Animals down, all ignorance.
Rūpānuga: What about like the cow, little goodness in it, mixed?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another one, "Hypnotism or Meditation." A hypnotist discusses a question that many face. Because they accuse that we're hypnotizing, so they're trying to distinguish in this article what is hypnotism, what is meditation. Then here's another one, "The Art of Awareness." This woman is supposed to be a great transcendental artist. You can see some of her famous pictures. Here's a picture called "Congregations of Souls." And here's another picture called "Temple Stones." Then this is the Gansfield effect. (laughter) Ping-pong balls. Says here "The apparently pop-eyed lady is not a visitor from another dimension nor the victim of a sudden surprise. She is the subject of an experiment into the nature of meditation and some of the effects of the processes. The ping-pong ball halves present a completely continuous visual field. There's no object in it that can hold her attention. After staring at the insides of the ping-pong balls for a while, she will begin to feel peaceful and..."
Prabhupāda: Actually she does?
Prabhupāda: So tomorrow I shall take lunch at 1:00. That's all. Then, by 3:00 o'clock, I shall be ready. (to Indian man:) (Hindi?) Kṛṣṇa is preparing you to join this movement wholeheartedly. It is very nice. Now you have got it?
Jayādvaita: Yes. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja quotes, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). "All these incarnations of Godhead are either plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself." Then he says, "The Bhāgavatam describes the symptoms and deeds of the incarnations in general and counts Śrī Kṛṣṇa among them. This made Sūta Gosvāmī greatly apprehensive. Therefore he distinguished each incarnation by its specific symptoms. All the incarnations of Godhead are plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions of the puruṣa-avatāras, but the primeval Lord is Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
Mike Robinson: How do you know the animal has a soul?
Prabhupāda: You can know also. What is the difference? How do you distinguish that the animal has no soul and the man has soul? How do you distinguish? How do you say the man has soul and the animal has no soul? How do you distinguish?
Mike Robinson: I believe this Christian religion do it because their scriptures say...
Prabhupāda: Again you believe, don't believe, don't believe. When you say that the animal has no soul, but you believe or you know that man has soul. So what is the distinction between the man and the animal you find so that you say that the animal has no soul? What is your scientific conclusion? How do you say that animal has no soul?
Mike Robinson: As far as the Christian faith is concerned, doesn't it base it...
Prabhupāda: Why are you bringing Christian?
Yogeśvara: Professor's upstairs putting on a dhotī. He brought his daughter. Professor Chenique teaches a course in Bhagavad-gītā at the University, and he is also doing translations of Śaṅkarācārya and teaches for the Federation of Yoga. He considers himself a Christian Advaitist. (break) ...some questions regarding the publications in French. For example, on the front of Back to Godhead magazine, in the English edition and other language editions, they have kept the phrase "Godhead is light, darkness is nescience. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." Now in French it is difficult to translate that. There is no word Godhead. And if you say "God is light," in French it sounds very impersonalist. In French, Dieux est lumiere, "God is light." Many groups say like that. We use the word Godhead, and that distinguishes us from the other groups. Now is the phrase very important, and do you want us to keep it on the front of the magazine? It should be there.
Prabhupāda: There is a little difference between God and Godhead.
Yogeśvara: So when we will have to try to find...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities. The body must be given something to eat. Is it not? Eating?
Mr. Hamidi: Isn't it the approach which makes it different.
Prabhupāda: This is the approach, that first of all you distinguish what is matter, what is spirit. This is the approach.
Mr. Hamidi: Well, perhaps, the spiritual culture, what we mean by that, all the rituals, all the different approach...
Prabhupāda: No, rituals, this will come later on. First of all, let us understand what is matter, what is spirit. Unless we understand what is matter and what is spirit, there is no question of spiritual culture. Therefore you'll be misguided. By material culture, you will pass on as spiritual culture. And that is going on.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the goal once one understands what is spirit and what is matter, what is the goal past that?
Prabhupāda: Yes? All right. So our, this philosophy is to educate the human being to know about God. That's all. We have no other business. We're writing books on this subject matter, distributing them, educating them. We are creating preachers who can educate. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Others are denying the human rights. We are giving the human rights. We are so benevolent. Suppose your father has got some money. You are child, you do not know. But if somebody tries to hide that money or does not give you, utilizes for some other purposes; another friend is trying to give you your father's money—who is better friend, hm? Who is better friend? You cannot distinguish who is better friend?
Shahrezad: I don't know. Yes, I can, but...
Prabhupāda: Nandarāṇī?
Nandarāṇī: The man who is giving the father's what?
Prabhupāda: Suppose I go in a park. There is nice tank, reservoir of water, very decorated. And if I think, "There is no proprietor," is it not my foolishness? There must be one proprietor, but I do not know him. That is real sense. Similarly, everything has got proprietor. Why the sea and the land, the so many other things, why there is no proprietor? This is foolishness.
Dr. Kneupper: I don't understand how this relates to distinguishing who are the true teachers...
Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. Everyone is foolish now. You cannot distinguish who is thief and who is not thief. (Bengali) If you study everyone you will find everyone is rascal at the present moment.
Dr. Kneupper: But surely there are some who are...
Prabhupāda: Which is still continuing, but in a limited circle.
Rādhā-vallabha: "They come from a text which bears the most profound truths ever revealed to mankind. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2)." It's that series of verses. "This supreme science was received through the chain of disciplic succession and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend. Therefore you can understand the transcendental mystery of this science. Preserved by the invincible tradition of spiritual scholars known as the disciplic succession, these original words spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa to one of his most intimate devotees were recorded in a book called Bhagavad-gītā, Sanskrit for the 'Song of God.' Today a unique presentation of this ancient classic has aroused keen interest and deep appreciation from leading scholars in diverse disciplines. It was brought to the West by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is a living link in the chain of disciplic succession. Bhagavad-gītā, long viewed with awe by many contemporary and early Western thinkers, is not a simple summary of the Hindu faith, although it is the book of truth for some five hundred million people. It is a scientific study of universal, spiritual truths, far above sectarian doctrines and ethnic beliefs. Bhagavad-gītā is a study of the nature and origin of consciousness. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the world's most distinguished scholar of Vedic writings and a true humanitarian, began his labor of love in this tiny room in a temple in one of India's holiest cities, Vṛndāvana."
Prabhupāda: Apart from that, first of all you have to distinguish that what is important. The active principle within the body that is working, that is important? Or the superficial body structure is important?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that there is no difference.
Prabhupāda: There is difference, and therefore you have no brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The body itself is active, not that there is something in the body making it active. The blood, the brains—this is part of the body.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the position of this body? Active... Just like this table is not active.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It has no brain. No mind.
Prabhupāda: So then we have to accept that the body has got mind in the body. So that is material or something else?
Prabhupāda: That you have to prove, that "You have no brain, no intelligence. Therefore you are finding out completely different. On which platform we are speaking, you do not know. So that platform, first of all you have to distinguish—it is matter or spirit? Then spiritual. You have no idea what is spirit, and where is spiritual platform. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this point, that the spirit is within, not this body. That is your identity."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has to be stressed.
Prabhupāda: That has to be understood, and therefore He's explaining in so many ways. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This one word, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. He cannot understand it. "The body's finished, everything's finished." These rascal professors. And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20), "Don't think it is finished. It is there." Who will understand it? It requires a special brain. These rascals say, "Now everything's finished. The body's finished." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, no. Not finished." Who will understand this, unless he has got a very good brain? And our education begins from that point. These rascals, when they are disappointed—"Bas, finished"—we begin from there. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished.
Prabhupāda: Give me.
Ādi-keśava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I wanted these harijana. Harijana.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause they don't distinguish like that.
Prabhupāda: No. They are searching after some guide.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've notice in Bengal, the aristocratic Bengalis, they come to our temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, Bengalis, they're more intelligent.
Prabhupāda: They are educated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not smārta, not like that.
Prabhupāda: And these other countries, they are smārta.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: South, South Indian...
Prabhupāda: Yes, South...
Prabhupāda:: "With vijñāna." Sa means "with."
Dr. Kapoor: Why not vijñāna alone
Prabhupāda: Jñānam is imperfect. Sa-vijñānam. Jñānam me...
Dr. Kapoor: So you want to distinguish it from ordinary science.
Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ te paramaṁ guhyam. Sa-vijñānam. This word is there. Paramaṁ guhyam. Paramaṁ guhyaṁ sa-vijñānam. (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Probably it will be held October 28th, around that time.
Prabhupāda: So they wanted to hold this conference here, and later on, we decided Bombay... (Hindi) Let them decide.
Dr. Kapoor: (Hindi) ...place for this kind of ...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Remember, I told you about him, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Girirāja: So he knows a little Hindi. He has a very distinguished...
Prabhupāda: Which viceroy?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which viceroy?
Girirāja: The last viceroy, Mountbatten. And he's very diplomatic in dealing with people. And when he meets with the Indians, they immediately respect him, just like in the old days. So I think he'll be a very good personality to have in the restaurant and guesthouse. People will be happy to meet him. He's tall, he has a nice British accent, and he's following our regulative principles. He's a devotee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I met him at Bhaktivedanta Manor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we were there. He came a couple of times, very nice gentleman. He's working without any salary. Simply he asked for a room, and he wants to devote his life. Real gentleman. He's more British than any Britisher I've ever met.
Prabhupāda: Forty years?
| Page Title: | Distinguish (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 27 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=74, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 74 |