Prabhupāda: We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God. Then he automatically offers himself for initiation. Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling. These four things are strictly forbidden for our students. And they take it seriously. We get our... In your country boys and girls, they live as friend. I don't allow that. If there is such friendship, I immediately ask them, if they become my student, I immediately ask them to be married. And this experiment has proved very successful.
Different ways (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: My question was... No, that's a good answer.
Prabhupāda: (Laughs) Yes. Your materialistic life is full of anxiety. That is the main symptom of materialistic life. We are always anxious, everyone. President Johnson, he's anxious, "Oh, my presidency is going on. Now I shall no longer be president." He's thinking, very much anxious. And, similarly, you are also thinking, another man is also thinking. Everyone is anxious. Nobody is free from anxiety. And when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka or any Vaikuṇṭha planet, the first thing is that you have no anxiety. That is spiritual life. Always joyful. (Baby cooing). No anxiety. Because she knows, "My mother is there. She will protect me from everything." So no anxiety means when you know that "Kṛṣṇa will protect me," you have no anxiety. To become in the family of Kṛṣṇa. We are already in the family of Kṛṣṇa, but in a different way. Just like if one is in the prisonhouse, he is in the government's protection, but in a different way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, his higher intelligence is utilized for purification. That is the teaching.
Devotee (1): You were talking about Prahlada.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Prahlada Maharaja said. Yes. About this body. It is arrangement, according to different body. Now, these swans, they have left this, defending, they're going away. This is defending only. Yes. And as soon as they're on the water, they think, "Oh, we are safe because these rascals cannot come in the water." (laughter) They are thinking about us "rascals." As we are thinking about them that they are lower animals, so they are also thinking, "These are rascals." Just like some father rebukes a son, the son also thinks of the father as rascal, "Unnecessarily he's chastising me." There is a proverb that as the child grows... (break) ...also thinks that "This boy is a fool; he'll do wrong by..." This is stated. And the child is stated in a different way. Just like sometimes our audience also. When we speak they think, "What nonsense he's speaking. Oh, Kṛṣṇa, what is this Kṛṣṇa? Let us enjoy." They are not purified. So this Prahlada Mahārāja says that according to the body, the specific facilities of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is already arranged. It is already arranged. So one hasn't got to learn.
Interviewer: Govinda told me that it started five hundred years ago in Western Bengal. Could you elucidate on this please?
Prabhupāda: This Bhagavad-gītā is read by the human society not only in India, but outside India, since a very long, long time. But unfortunately, as everything is deteriorated by the contact of material contamination, so people began to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in different ways. Therefore about five hundred years ago, Lord Caitanya appeared, and he started the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under His personal guidance in Bengal. His birthplace is known as Navadvīpa. Now, He ordered every Indian to spread this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, in every village, every town. That was His order. But unfortunately, since India was under foreign subjugation, they could not spread, or they lost their own independence of culture. But everyone expected after declaration of independence by India, such things should come to the outside world. But the government did not take much care of it. So far I am concerned, I belong to Lord Caitanya's disciplic succession, and my spiritual master, who was just ninth generation from Lord Caitanya, he ordered me that "You try to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western world." Therefore in pursuance of his order, I have come here.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: In what... Are there fundamental differences between, or is it simply a difference in approach between your awareness and interpretations and, for example, those of the people who are involved with Zen? With some of the other Eastern concepts? Would you like to...
Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know what is Zen conception, or Eastern conception, but we agree with many of them, just like we agree with the concept of God presented by Bible or Koran. That is recognized. And Bhagavad-gītā is so simple that it does not require any interpretation. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. When things are not understood, then you can interpret, I can interpret. So the verses of Bhagavad-gītā are so simple that there is no question of interpretation. Unfortunately I have seen that in Bhagavad-gītā, commented by a great scholar like Dr. Radhakrishnan, the verse is translated very nicely and that is done by an Englishman, but he interprets in a different way. So when we can understand the thing very nicely, there is no question of interpretation. You see?
Interviewer: Well, would you say that, agree with those who say that in the people who have understood, in all the great schools of thought they have come to approximately, at least and sometimes almost, identical conclusions. The thinking of the great mystics in all religions have been in essential agreement.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that religion is a different thing. Religion is a kind of faith. You may have your faith in a certain type of procedure; I may have a certain type of procedure. That is different thing. Suppose you are now Christian. You may change your faith to Mohammedanism. But you as person, you do not change. Your faith may change. Similarly, we are concerned with consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Material consciousness means forgetting God. When one forgets God, that is material consciousness. Material consciousness is called māyā. Actually one should not forget. But if he forgets somehow or other, that is material consciousness. Naturally nobody forgets his father and mother. But if, somehow or other, he forgets, that is a special circumstances and that is called māyā, illusion. Just like any one of you who are existing, you must have a father and mother. That is a fact. Without father and mother, your existence cannot be. Now, if you cannot say who is your father and mother, if you do not know, this forgetfulness, this is called māyā. Actually it should not happen, but somehow or other, if you are asked, "Who is your parents?" You cannot say. This is called māyā. But there must be some father and mother. Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God"—that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, māyā. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of māyā means insanity.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a jugglery of words. So his principle was that they did not believe in God. So still the Buddhists says, "You don't believe in God." So but they are worshiping God, Lord Buddha. There are so many temples. In the same way, as we worship. So this is transcendental cheating.
Allen Ginsberg: Transcendental cheating.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Just like sometimes father has to cheat his child. That is not cheating. That is welfare. But apparently it (looks) likes cheating. A child is insistent on some point. "Yes, yes. You are all right. But you do this like this. Yes, you are very good boy." Like that. But Vaiṣṇava, in Vaiṣṇava literature, in Vedic literature, he is God. The godless worshiping God in a different way. If there is nothing, why they should worship Buddha even?
Allen Ginsberg: They don't... Well, strictly speaking, one does not worship Buddha.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, they have many big, big temples in Burma and Japan.
Prabhupāda: (pause) Hm. Very good. So if we go, there will be good reception in Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Bhāgavata says, without developing this love of Godhead, if somebody is engaged in religious ritualistic performance, he's simply wasting his time. Śrama... That particular word is used, śrama eva hi kevalam. Śrama means labor. Eva. Certainly, it is simply laboring. What is called? Labor of love? What is called?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Labor of love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You love something and unnecessarily you labor. So religion means... This is religion, how to develop love of God. That is religion.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: Well, you know they say they never knew Kṛṣṇa, and you are, of course right. But different peoples name their Gods in different ways. You name your God Kṛṣṇa. In the Western world, many, many people name their God Jesus, Jesus Christ. There are other peoples in different parts of the world who have different names for the Gods which they pray to.
Prabhupāda: Yes. that's all right. We say in that connection that if you have got a name which is actually referring to God, that will also do. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. So according to Vedic literature, kṛṣṇaś tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is the... He has got many names. Thousands and millions of names. This is the original name. So Caitanya says not that you have to chant Kṛṣṇa, but if you have got actually a name for God, you can chant that. We are not asking you that you chant Kṛṣṇa. If you have got actually a name for God, then you can chant that. We are requesting that you chant God's holy name.
Interviewer: Any life.
Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.
Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.
Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted different way, but he said "Thou shall not kill." He never said "Thou shall not kill amongst human being." Why do you interpret in that way?
Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?
Prabhupāda: Yes. His behavior, he's a perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are prohibited not to eat meat.
Prabhupāda: So it is the book to understand Kṛṣṇa, but these people, unscrupulous people, even great scholars, they tried to explain something, taking advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā. Instead of understanding Kṛṣṇa, they wanted to present something of their concoction through the Bhagavad-gītā. So this movement was already there since five thousand years. But these, I may say, the foolish scholars, they suppressed. Caitanya Mahāprabhu revived. Five hundred years ago he revived. So from Caitanya Mahāprabhu time we are trying to revive this movement in different way, different way. About two hundred years ago, hundred and fifty years ago, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura revived it, and then about fifty years ago, my Guru Maharaja, he revived it, and he also ordered me that "You go and preach this philosophy to the Western world." So under his order I came, and I presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, as you have read. So the acceptance has been very marvelous, because the things are presented in pure form, so it has acted very nice. Otherwise it is not a movement that I have manufactured something. No. The movement was already there. I am simply presenting as it is. That is my service. That's all.
Mohsin Hassan: They tell me that..., the Ramakrishna Mission, they offer all kinds variety of books about every religion.
Prabhupāda: We have got varieties of books.
Mohsin Hassan: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We have got at least twelve books, four hundred pages, different ways we are presenting, but our main aim is, end is Kṛṣṇa, to understand Kṛṣṇa through different philosophical thoughts. We have presented, I think. You have not...? You say you say you have seen all these books.
Mohsin Hassan: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We have got Kṛṣṇa, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Nectar of Devotion, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Easy Journey to Other Planets, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is the Topmost Yoga System. In this way we have presented so many.
Prabhupāda: Because the method is authorized, Kṛṣṇa prescribes this. Kṛṣṇa Himself and Lord Caitanya. He says that this is the only method for self-realization, or for God-realization, or to learn how to love God. He says. Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore it is authorized. And it is practically happening. Otherwise, these boys and girls, they're foreigners, they never knew Kṛṣṇa. Now, I have got sixty centers, and in each center there are, on the average, hundred devotees. And they have dedicated their life. How it is happening, unless it is authorized?
Interviewer: Well, you know they say they never knew Kṛṣṇa, and you are, of course, right. But different peoples name their Gods in different ways. You name your God "Kṛṣṇa." In the Western world many, many people name their God "Jesus."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: Jesus Christ. There are other peoples in different parts of the world who have different names for the Gods which they, uh, pray to.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. We say in that connection that if you have got a name which is actually referring to God, that will also do. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) You are excepted. You are excepted. Sometimes old men are called old fools. (laughing)
Mr. Arnold: My wife is twice..., she's older that I am, and she's made me return because sometimes I've lost my temper with, over, you know, various things that happen...
Prabhupāda: The thing is that you are liberal to understand things as they are. But generally, old men, they are sophisticated. They do not like to accept anything new: "Go away." Or they are not serious about religion. That is another thing. Actually..., as I see that old, older section, they have been habituated in a different way, so they do not want to change (indistinct). That is the difference. So "Here is a nice thing; you should accept it." They are not inclined in that way. All stereotyped.
Revatīnandana: Jesus used the expression loving God or loving mammon.
Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:
- yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
- cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
- śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
- govinda viraheṇa me
Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not. So that is love of God. He sacrificed everything.
Prabhupāda: That is a different thing. Suppose you are a lawyer. I put my faith in you but if you cheat me I lose the case. That is another thing.
Dr. Weir: Sometimes it's just honest ignorance.
Prabhupāda: No. Generally mother is honest. If one is unfortunate he has got a mother like that, cheat you. Generally expected, a mother is honest. Mother loves his child, he gives the good information. That is mother's position. But if someone has got a different mother, that's..., the same thing can be applicable to you also. You are lawyer. Everyone depends on you, but if you conduct a case in a different way just to make profit to other party, you can do that. That is my misfortune. I have to depend on you for conducting the case. I have no other means.
Dr. Weir: And the poor lawyer has to depend upon the other person in telling him what is supposed to be the true facts.
Prabhupāda: But my position is, as soon as I appoint my lawyer, I'll have to depend fully on you. I cannot do anything else. Whatever you advise me I have to do that.
Prabhupāda: So long they are simply foolishly interpreting, therefore they did not get any benefit. But if you take AS IT IS you'll get the benefit.
Reporter: But sir, what are we to do with the (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say I don't (indistinct) name.
Reporter: Who will name it? Who will (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: There is no question of bhāṣya. I say take it AS IT IS. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Gītā gave. Why bhāṣya? Why bhāṣya? They, Kṛṣṇa, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Kurukṣetre is still there, you know. There is a station. Why do you interpret in different way?
Reporter: Sir, it is a joy to be with you.
Prabhupāda: What is the use of interpreting Kurukṣetra as different? That is a simple waste of time.
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by this first priority? That I want to know from you.
Dr. Singh: No, you were talking, Swamiji, about the unification of the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The world is going on. We simply say that you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you will be happy. Happy in this life, happy in the next life. So you are going on in this way. "In this way" means either out of the four classes. You may name in a different way. I say brāhmaṇa class, you say intelligent class. Do you agree that in the world there is an intelligent class of men?
Dr. Singh: Yes, but they can also work.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is working.
Dr. Singh: They can be very good worker.
Prabhupāda: When your brain... Brain is the intelligent part of this body. So unless the brain works, nobody can work.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like, when you speak of king, it means king's government, king's palace, king's queen, king's son, secretaries, military strength, everything. Is it not?
Bob: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, Kṛṣṇa being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as soon as we think of Kṛṣṇa (it) means all energies of Kṛṣṇa. That is complete by saying "Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Rādhā represents all the energy of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, the living entities are also included. Because the living entities are energies, different energies of Kṛṣṇa, superior energy. So when this energy is not serving the energetic, that means material existence. The whole world is not serving Kṛṣṇa. They are serving Kṛṣṇa in a different way. they are serving Kṛṣṇa indirectly. Just like disobedient citizens, they serve the government indirectly. They have come to the prison house on account of their disobedience of the laws of the state. So in the prison house they're forced to obey the laws of the state. Similarly, all the living entities here, they're godless. Either by ignorance or by his will, he doesn't like to accept the supremacy of God. Demonic. So we are trying to bring them in their original condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Impersonalist: What is the meaning of Rāma?
Prabhupāda: Rāma. Rāma is enjoyer. Ramante yogino 'nante. Yogīs, they want eternal enjoyment. Here in this material world you can enjoy something for some few minutes or few hours, but if you want eternal enjoyment, ramaṇa, then Rāma, that is Rāma. (break) Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. Neither by reading so many books because each book is written in a different way. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnaḥ nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam (CC Madhya 17.186). If you consult philosophers, then everyone will give you a different opinion.
Impersonalist: They could be saying the same thing, even though they are saying different things.
Prabhupāda: Maybe same thing, but you will be puzzled by the different opinion. Therefore you have to take the path of great personalities. So we are following Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya chanted this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are following, and we are getting result. That's all. We don't manufacture our own way because we are imperfect. We cannot manufacture. That will not be beneficial.
Guest (1): The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has started in the United States. Why did it start in the United States, rather than India?
Prabhupāda: Because the United States, they are our best customer. A businessman goes to a place... Just like you have come here. Why you have come here? Wherever there is best possibility of doing your business, there you must go. I went to United States because I know these people are not poverty-stricken. And our Indian people, they are now, they have been trained to think like that—they are poverty-stricken. Actually, they are not poverty-stricken, but the leaders have educated them that, "You are all poverty-stricken." This is India's position. So far I knew that it would not be successful in India. The government will not help. The public is educated in a different way. They are after technology. So and "familiarity breeds contempt." They say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? It is known to us since a long time. What effect it will have?" Many Indian students in foreign countries, they say, "Swamiji, what will this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement benefit us? We want technology." So that is the mentality of the Indians at the present moment. They have lost everything and therefore they are beggars. They have lost their own culture and therefore they are beggars. So I thought it wise that I shall go to a country where there is no poverty. They will learn. They have enough. For material enjoyment, they have got enough. The material enjoyment means money and woman. That is, in America, it is lying on the street. As much as you like, you can take. But they are disgusted with this material enjoyment. Therefore they are coming as hippies. They are coming from very rich family. Their fathers, their grandfathers, are very rich. At least they belong to the richest nation. But they are not satisfied. They are not satisfied. That is the natural sequence. The Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Man eats and kills everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The animals kill just their own quota.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, if a man wants to become animal, he becomes worse than animal. A tiger, a tiger eats meat and he has got equipments in his body, what is called, nails, teeth, immediately pounce upon any animal and kills and eats. But a man cannot do that, but his teeth is different, he has no nails; therefore he has to kill animal in different way, by slaughterhouse. So he is worse than animal. You kill one animal for your eating purpose, that is one thing, but if you keep slaughterhouse for business, then you are more (indistinct). Therefore for a human being to try to become animal is worse than the animals, because... Just like you are now grown up. If you imitate that "I want to become child, so I enter anyone's house," the law will not allow you. And if you say that "My philosophy is to become a child; therefore I enter this man's house," the law will say, "All right, first of all you'll be punished." (laughter) You cannot say that. Because you are grown up you cannot act as a child. Similarly, because you are human being, if you act as an animal you'll be responsible for your acts. And you'll be punished if you do something wrong. You cannot say, "No, I have made my philosophy to become a child." That may be your personal philosophy, but law will not allow you. Ignorance is no excuse. (long pause) It has become a philosophy now to become like animals.
Prabhupāda: We have got some, giving, give her that.
Sumati Morarjee: This is from (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, we get from Hong Kong.
Sumati Morarjee: Hong Kong. Why, is it good?
Prabhupāda: No, it is not good. It is wrong. That we sent it...
Sumati Morarjee: How?
Prabhupāda: ...different, in different way.
Devotee: They dip it into oils.
Prabhupāda: Scented Oil. That's...
Sumati Morarjee: Ah, and then it becomes...
Devotee: They're known as firelighters, because sometimes thy used them for lighting fireworks.
Sumati Morarjee: I know. Oh, I know now, I understand. So you can present, tell me. Yes, this is (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Sumati Morarjee: So you, you have started?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have started.
Devotee: It's printed in Bombay.
Sumati Morarjee: Where.
Devotee: In Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Recently.
Prabhupāda:
- kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare
- pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
After forgetting Kṛṣṇa, one wants to lord it over the material nature, but he becomes... (break) Especially in the Western world, everywhere attracted sex life. Mini-skirt so that the other party may be attracted. So many means and ways they want to avoid the after-results of sex life, contraceptive. The center is sex life. They are giving up everything, the hippies, but sex is there. That they cannot give up. So-called giving up, but they cannot give up the real central point. So this is māyā. He's captured by this one idea, mithuna. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Everyone is attracted by this sex life. We are trying to use this sex life in different way. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇa-bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They're becoming diseased in so many ways. Sex life, indulgence of sex life means you will become diseased, so many diseases. That is a medical fact. So this movement is very scientific movement, authorized. Anyone who will take to it seriously, sincerely, will be cured of this material disease and be happy.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1). Even a great leader, political leader, he has interpreted kurukṣetra as this body. So where is the dictionary where kurukṣetra means this body? But because he's a big political leader that gītā is going on. Kurukṣetra means this body. Pāṇḍava means the five senses. In this way (break) ...they cannot (indistinct) I may tell you frankly. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and how he can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Then he has to drag some interpretation out of his own way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One link. So that is being deviated. What Kṛṣṇa said to Vivasvān, to the sun-god now everyone is speaking in his own way, not in that way.
Guest (2): That's right.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change. Just like Dr. Rādhākrishnan, in the Ninth Chapter when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Dr. Rādhākrishnan says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." But Kṛṣṇa person says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "You just always think of Me." And he's deviating his readers, "Not to Kṛṣṇa." How much harm he's doing. This is going on. Why? It is said, Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, "Just think of Me. Just become my devotee." What right he has got to say that here it is not to Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. So if we interpret in that nonsense way then we shall not be able to understand Bhagavad-gītā. We shall miss this point. Science does not mean that you have to change according to your whims. Two plus two equal to four. You cannot make it five or three. That is not possible. Then it is not science. No longer the scientific value of this two plus two remains. We follow that principle, and that is the only principle. So if you're actually serious about Bhagavad-gītā, I do not know what is your commentary. I request you, "Try to follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Don't interpret in your own way. Then it will be (indistinct)." Everyone has got (indistinct) all over the world. Therefore we are selling this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is very nicely.
Karandhara: They always say they're right on the verge.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: They always say they're right on the verge.
Prabhupāda: That is also the future, in a different way. You have to accept that you do not know still what is the truth. You are expecting in future. That, that is the proof that your knowledge is imperfect. Why future?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because their present knowledge cannot...
Prabhupāda: It is, it is something like, giving post-dated check. I pay you one lakh of rupees, post-dated. Although I have no money,... What is the value of that check? Will anybody accept that check? "Oh, I have received the money." That is foolishness. Why future? You are talking of future, and you are talking of perfectness at present. What is this nonsense? You are claiming that your science is perfect, and, at the same time, when practical example wanted, you say; "I shall do it." The same example. I am saying I am millions, owner of millions of dollars. And you ask me: "Give me some payment." "Yes, I give you post-dated check." Will you accept? At present, if you give me five dollar, I see something tangible. And you're talking of big, big word, but you'll pay me in the future. So is it very sanguine proposal? And I am to accept it? So what kind of intelligent man I am also? You cannot produce even a grass by biological chemistry. You cannot do anything. Still you are claiming: "It is produced of chemistry, biology."
Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga. So people are being misled. Actually, the human being, the form of human life, is distinct from animal life. So if we live like animals, then we are missing the chance. At the present moment, this is the position. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement strictly on the basis of this Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, there is everything explained. So if people take to it, if people are educated, then things will change in a different way. They'll be happy and they will be peaceful, nice. And above, over and above them, they will have next life very blissful, full of knowledge, and eternal. Yad gatvā na nivarta... These things are all very nicely explained. There is eternal life. There is another nature. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). This is material nature, but there is another, spiritual nature. There everything is permanent. Here everything is non-permanent. Just like my body, your body. It is now getting older. And it will vanquish. This body will be finished. It will never come again back. Never come. This exactly type of this body you'll never get. So we have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment. Because nobody wants to die. Because he is eternal. How he'll like to die? He wants to keep his eternal position, but he, because he's criminal... Just like one man is condemned to die, murderer. So he has to die. But he wants to protect himself, placing himself in the court, "How to save? How to save?" So that is our natural tendency, that we do not want to die. Why? Because we are eternal. We have got the prerogative. So if... Anyone does not want to die. Anyone does not want to take birth even. Now we have forgotten. Otherwise, in the womb of the mother, everyone knows that we are kept in such a way, in a packed, compact water bag, without any facility to move, not only for one day, two day, but ten months. Medical science knows, everyone knows. And at that time there are worms in the womb of the mother.
Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya. They all accept Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). They accept it. So how can you defy all these ācāryas and you become better than them? That is nonsense.
Reporter: But all these ācāryas interpret in different, different ways.
Prabhupāda: No. No.
Reporter: No?
Prabhupāda: On the principle, they never... Just like Śaṅkarācārya and Rāmānujācārya. He's impersonalist, personalist, but both of them accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You'll find from their notes, comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Śaṅkarācārya, although he is impersonalist, he says nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: Nārāyaṇa is beyond this cosmic manifestation; He's transcendental. That means he says He's person. Nārāyaṇa, as soon as Nārāyaṇa, the Personality of Godhead. So we have nothing to touch in the spiritual understanding. He's talking of the material understanding. His philosophy, he started the philosophy, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.
Mother: But you, aren't you translating your books still?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.
Mother: Isn't that a great joy, a great joy to you?
Prabhupāda: That's... For translating of books it does not require... Of course, it requires when the purport of the translation is given. Otherwise,... Real thing is culture. That education is culture. Simply money-making education for maintaining this body, that education will not satisfy any more. Just like I told you, that despite all arrangements of education, why the young men are turning to be hippies? That is my question.
Mother: Oh, but not your followers. Your followers are not being hippies, people who follow you. Therefore you've got the people who you could help to become cultured like you.
Prabhupāda: So my father educated me in a different way. Therefore I have come to this stage. My father never allowed me even to drink tea.
Mother: Well, I'm disappointed in you. I came to see you because I felt that, being so cultured, you would want all your boys to have this culture and to have this, to have the best...
Revatīnandana: We've got, we've got this culture.
Prabhupāda: His name was Gopāla Banh. Gopāla Banh ...And there was a king, Kṛṣṇacandra. So the kings would relax by joking words by the jokers. That was system formerly. So Gopāla Banh was constructing a house. So the king advised another friend that: "If you go to his new house and evacuate..." Because the house is not yet opened, not yet established, "Then I'll give you one thousand rupees." So this man said: "Yes, I'll go and do it." So he was, he came to Gopāla Banh's house and began to say: "Gopāla Banh! Oh! I am called by nature. Kindly show me where is your privy. I have to pass." So he could understand that: "Why this man has come here to evacuate?" So he: "Yes, yes. Come in, come in, come in." So he opened the new lavatory and brought a big stick. So he said: "Why you have brought the stick?" So he said: "Yes, you can pass, you can pass stool, but if you urine one drop, I'll kill you." So "How it is possible?" "If it is not possible, I cannot allow." So these, these foolish scientific men, "You can speak, but if you use microphone, then I'll kill you." Yes. The Gopāla Banh's policy. They would not say: "Not allow." But in a different way. (break) For political diplomacy. Not directly: "No." But creating such position, it is not. You are chanting also? Sixteen rounds? Eh?
Girl: (indistinct)
Haṁsadūta: See says she's trying her best to do so.
Prabhupāda: All right. Something is better than nothing.
Prabhupāda: You have to start from Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (1): That's this one.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, we have to understand what is that force which is moving this body. Then we come to the spiritual platform. As you understand, the nature of the soul, that is very elaborately explained in different way, negative, positive way, what is the soul. This morning, every morning I speak on this Bhagavad-gītā, if you find time you can come. At quarter past seven, I'm beginning, for one hour.
Guest (1): Now for, that is for Saturday and Sunday?
Prabhupāda: No, every day.
Guest (1): Every day.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But Marxist materialism, does it mean a congregation of some fools and rascals?
Ambassador: I think so, true.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean they like that some congregation of fools and rascals? Such a big professor, he does not know, he cannot understand even that there is life after death. He has to accept another body. As we are accepting different bodies. I was a child. You were a child. Then I became a boy. That is different body. Different consciousness also. A child, three-four years, he talks in a different way. A boy, ten-twelve years, he talks in a different way, and a young man, educated young man, he talks in a different way. So with the change of the body, the consciousness is changing. Is it not?
Ambassador: Yes.
Ambassador: Yes, yes. Mostly it was Vivekananda's explanation.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda did not know anything about bhakti.
Ambassador: No, I mean he just, literally, it's not bhakti at all. Yes, it is...
Prabhupāda: Neither Vivekananda nor any swami. That is the regrettable fact. They, actually... Even Dr. Radhakrishnan, he could not present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You see? He's impersonalist, and he presented in a different way, and now Professor, Dr. Pirindher...?
Haṁsadūta: Philinder.
Śrutakīrti: Dillinger.
Prabhupāda: He said, he came to see me that "Now we have rejected Dr. Radhakrishnan."
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because everyone has speculated in his own way. Therefore we have presented Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And if you have got time, we can read some of the portions, how we have presented as it is. So people are liking this As It Is. Otherwise, Bhagavad-gītā is well-known in the western country, all over Europe. But because it was not presented as it is, there was not a single devotee of Kṛṣṇa. You find out, the whole history. Bhagavad-gītā is meant for making the reader a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Is it not?
Ambassador: That's true.
Dr. Hauser: Oh yes. But that's very often a symptom of a, of a psychosis that they feel that they are persecuted by, by foreign powers or by...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Foreign powers, yes. So this is called ghostly haunted. So our material conception of life, this is also ghostly haunted, madness. "I am Christian. I am Hindu. I am Muslim. I am Englishman. I am German." These are all conception of ghostly haunted. Because spirit soul is pure. In the Vedic language it is said: asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The spirit soul has no connection with such designations. Just like in dream we see so many things. But it has nothing to do with me. So this is night dream. At night, we forget all these things about the day dream. "I am this, I am that. I am this family-member. I am his father. I am his husband." And so on, so on. At night, when dream, are in a different situation. And we forget everything. And again, in daytime, we forget everything of the night dream. We come another dream. So this is also dream. That is also dream. I am simply observing. In daytime I am seeing some dream, gross dream, and at nighttime I'm seeing some subtle dream. But seer, I am. Under different condition, I am seeing different things. I think you treats this madness. He's sees things in different way, in different positions.
Prabhupāda: I was simply planning in different way. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's favor. I never deviated from this plan. Since I heard it from my Guru Mahārāja, I've simply planning how to do it successfully. But I thought at that time, that "I'll be able to do it if I get some money. Let me do some business for the time." That I was thinking. But Kṛṣṇa said, "Even if you are pauper, you try; you'll get everything." But I thought, "Without money, how this can be done?" That was difference of opinion with Kṛṣṇa, argument. And I was dreaming also, Guru Mahārāja, asking me, "Come on." So I was going. So I was, "Oh, I have to go? I have to take sannyāsa?"
Śyāmasundara: You, you dreaming?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru Mahārāja said, "Come, come with me." I was going. But that... Many things happened before this. Yes. And at last it became, in America.
Prabhupāda: Māyā is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.
Sudāmā: I've been asked a question by some devotees sometimes that they don't feel happy. So even if they are unhappy, mentally, should, they still should continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I tell them, even if one is unhappy...
Prabhupāda: But you should show example. If you show example different way, how they will follow you?
Sudāmā: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Example is better than precept. Why you are living outside?
Sudāmā: Well, I...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...last time I was so much deteriorated in health, I had to leave this place. That does not mean I'll leave the Society. I went to India and recuperated. Or came to London. That's all right. So health may be sometimes... But that does not mean we shall give up the Society. If my health is unsuitable here, I go... I have a hundred centers. And you'll not go out of this universe for your health recouping. You have to remain within the universe. Then why do you go out of the Society? (break) ...Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. We have to live with devotees. Why I left my family? Because they were not devotees. Therefore I come... Otherwise, in old age, I would have been comfortable. No. We should not live with the nondevotees, may be family men or anyone. Just like Mahārāja Vibhīṣaṇa. Because his brother was not devotee, he left him, left him. He came to Rāmacandra. Vibhīṣaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Time stops... Anyway, nobody has gone. They have gone to the nearest planet, they say. I do not know whether they have gone at all.
Yaśomatīnandana: You don't think, Prabhupāda, they have reached the moon?
Prabhupāda: No. There are so many invisible planets. Not that all the stars and planets, you can see, just like Rāhu planet. That is not seen. And when the Rāhu planet passes through, that is eclipse, but they describe in a different way. Actually, it is the Rāhu planet which passes before the sun and moon and there is eclipse. There are so many questionable things of the theory that, the eclipse theory of the modern view. That is not correct according to Vedic theory.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...could have written a lot of Vaiṣṇava songs, if he were a Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But he borrowed the idea from Vaiṣṇava. His guru, not exactly guru... In his zamindari, Golpur, he was going to a Vaiṣṇava, Baul. But Baul is sahajiyā. So he got the idea of Vaiṣṇavism, but because he was not Vaiṣṇava, he presented his idea in a different way. That is his Gītāñjali. Gītāñjali is the depiction of the idea he got from that Baul.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: His songs are so popular in Bengal.
Prabhupāda: No, all over the world, more or less.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even I sang some of his songs when I was in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: There is idea, some Vaiṣṇava idea.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Satsvarūpa: But we say, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa and you can become free," and they say, "No, I don't see that."
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that a sensible man is that "I am controlled. I am controlled by some other agent of Kṛṣṇa. So why not be controlled directly by Kṛṣṇa." This is sense. I cannot be independent. Just like the government. If somebody says, "I don't agree to be controlled by you," then government will kick with police, with military. That is our position. We are being kicked by the agent of government, material nature. We are desiring in different way to become controller or enjoyer, and we are being offered different facilities, means different types of body, birth and death. So because they have no sense, they have accepted this process. So by the force of nature... "You wanted to desire. You desired this thing. All right, take this body. You wanted to eat without discrimination. All right, take this body of a pig and eat up to stool." That is nature's gift. So therefore he's changing. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva. He's going on changing, this dress that dress, that dress, that dress, that dress. But he's not in sense that "How I can stop this change?" That he doesn't know. Now, as Americans, they have so many nice facilities, but you cannot enjoy them. By nature's force, you'll have to change. What you can do? Today you are living on the twenty-fourth floor of this skyscraper, and tomorrow you may become a rat in that room. How you can change it? It is not in your power. The rat is also in the same room and you are also in the same room. Who has made this arrangement?
Prabhupāda: If the approach is different, suppose in the approach is to fire, the approach may be different, but heat or light is there. So why do they approach fire? But if you are approaching something else, how the same experience is there?
Guest: Well...
Prabhupāda: Say we approach fire, then approach may be a different way, but the goal, it is fire, you will experience heat and light.
Guest: Well, approaching means...
Prabhupāda: But if the approach is different, then how you will experience heat and light?
Guest: Yes, but what are we approaching?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: What are we approaching?
Prabhupāda: That you have to explain.
Prabhupāda: That, in the Bhāgavata it is said, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Lord Buddha appeared for cheating or bewildering the atheistic person. They do not believe in the (indistinct). They did not, did not believe in God, but God is there. Lord Buddha himself is God. Just like if I say I don't want (indistinct), but you come in a different place. So (indistinct) is there, but I am thinking it is not (indistinct). Similarly, God is there—Buddha—but they are thinking that they don't believe in God. This is cheating. God is there. They are worshiping Lord Buddha exactly as we worship Kṛṣṇa. Then is it not the same? Then how do they say they don't believe in God? They are made to believe in God in a different way. That is cheating, and it is good for them. That is written in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). (break) They're Australian. (Hindi conversation with another guest about Lakṣmī's position in relation to Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs)
Prabhupāda: Surrendering means you commit the suicide of your ego before Him.
Guest (1): No suicide in this.
Prabhupāda: No, surrender means surrender. Now you can interpret in a different way.
Guest (1): That is my interpretation.
Prabhupāda: But why should you interpret? Surrender means you surrender.
Guest (1): But what surrender? Not the body...
Prabhupāda: No, whatever you have got...
Guest (1): Your individuality. Your individuality means your ego. So ego surrendering.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Every sacrifice, every sacrifice there is written in injunction of Vedic...
Dr. Patel: Sacrificing means you're sacrificing your own...
Prabhupāda: You may mean something, but actually, that is not the meaning. That is the difference. You may mean something. The point is that you may follow. In the Vedas there are different ways, but you cannot decry the authority of the Vedas. That is the point.
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy is yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). That is our...
Indian man (4): The saṅkīrtana be our yajña.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) It is stated in the śāstra, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Kalau, in this age...
Indian man (3): Why discuss these things for others? We are not meat-eaters, nor we do... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: He's going in a different way.
Indian man (3): As a Vaiṣṇava. No, that is what I'm...
Prabhupāda: No, you do not understand, that is the defect...
Prabhupāda: Śāstra can say...
Dr. Patel: Some nonsense śāstras are there, who can say...
Prabhupāda: But that is not śāstra. Why you are accepting that śāstra? (laughter) He's nonsense. If he accepts something nonsense śāstra, he becomes nonsense. Our plea is let us learn from the standard book, Bhagavad-gītā, and study, not bring anything else. That will give us proper guidance.
Dr. Patel: (break) ...that is completely verse.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I said that in the Vedas there are so many injunctions for different men, because the population, the sattva, rajo, tamo-guṇa, some of them are śūdras, some of them are kṣatriyas, some of them are vaiśyas, some of them are brāhmaṇa; therefore different ways of inducing them is there. But because something is there for inducing the śūdras in the Vedas, you cannot say, "No, this is not required." That is also required, for the śūdras, not for you.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible that everyone has to read all the corollaries. The one, main... Bhagavad-gītā you read and learn, that I am stressing. That I am stressing.
Indian man (2): That's right.
Indian man (3): Perfectly right, but what I say what he has... Finer points.
Prabhupāda: Now you say there are seven branches, and they're preaching in a different way. So how people will understand...?
Indian man (3): Because then those people were reading all so many śāstras he narrowed to five. He wanted the Veda you must read, Vyāsa-sūtra... (break)
Prabhupāda: Beginning should be Bhagavad-gītā. (break) Pañcopāsanam. Pañcopāsanam is not for the Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being done in every ISKCON center. Satataṁ kīrtayanto, chanting always Kṛṣṇa, namasyantas, offering obeisances. Everything in Kṛṣṇa. This is mahātmā.
Dr. Patel: Yes.
- jñāna-yajñena cāpy anye
- yajanto mām upāsate
- ekatvena pṛthaktvena
- bahudhā viśvato-mukham
- (BG 9.15)
Here difficulty.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficult... The jñāna-yoga... Indirectly. They are bhajante mām, but in a different way. And the mahātmās, those who are bhaktas, they are directly in the way. And they are indirectly, in this way.
Dr. Patel: Ekatvena pṛthaktvena bahudhā viśvato-mukham.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ekatvena: "Now, I am, I am God."
Dr. Patel: Pṛthaktvena. Bahudhā viśvato-mukham.
Prabhupāda: Pantheism, pantheism, bahudhā. Bahudhā means God has become pantheism.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is extraordinarily. When the meaning of the law is not very clear, that takes place. But when the thing is very clear, there is no question of interpretation.
Indian Man (1): Why there is a fight? Because both the things, both the lawyers, they take it in different way and so they come to the judge.
Prabhupāda: That's right. But it is not different in such a way that you call a spectacle a something else.
Indian Man (4): Bhagavad-gītā is really...
Prabhupāda: Yes, but it said in the Bhagavad-gītā clearly, it is said clearly, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān: "I told this philosophy to Vivasvān." Where is the difficulty to understand? Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "In the dharma-kṣetre, kuru-kṣetre, two parties willing to fight, they assembled." Where is the difficulty to understand? Why these rascals should interpret in a different way?
Indian Man (1): These are all... They are not interpreting that particular word.
Prabhupāda: They are doing.
Prabhupāda: ...but in different ways. Mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha... Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). So proportionately they realize the Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa in a different way. But He advises that "Why don't you take the direct way?" Therefore he says at the last chapter, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Directly become Kṛṣṇa conscious."
Indian man (1): That doesn't need any pūjā then. Just take His śaraṇa and everything will be okay?
Prabhupāda: No. That śaraṇa means... That includes... That is bhakti.
Indian man (1): Bhakti is in the mind, in the heart.
Prabhupāda: No, not in the mind. No, no. Bhakti is in the heart, but there must be... Just like if you have got love for me in the heart, it must be demonstrated. Just like a husband and wife. The wife is says, "Now we are married and I have got love for you. Let me remain here. You go to your home." The bridegroom comes, "Now we are married and I love you, you love me. You go home, I remain here." Is that very good proposal?
Indian man (1): No, but this...
Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. (laughing) "I have got bhakti, but I don't do anything for You. You go home." So that is not bhakti. Bhakti must be exhibited by activity. That is the definition of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). So these are the nine different ways of expressing bhakti. First thing is śravaṇam. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ, chanting and hearing. Of whom? Of Viṣṇu. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Not of any other one. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say that "We can chant anyone's name, either I chant of any demigod's name or any name."
Indian man (1): But does He not say that "Whatever or whoever does it, it comes to Me."
Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam. That is said, avidhi-pūrvakam, "Not in order."
Dhanañjaya: Actually the man is making more noise than the dog.
Prabhupāda: That's all. So we say another dog is running in a different way. That's all. These are very strong words. People will be angry. But this is a fact.
Yogeśvara: So here's a practical problem. People would be interested to know our position on divorce. Here in Rome they just passed a divorce law.
Prabhupāda: That is also animalism. Just like a dog having sex intercourse with another female dog, and another, another, another. It is also animalism. So that is your decision. They are animals, and different way they are coming to be naked animal, that's all. The divorce is also dog's business. Dog is having sex intercourse with this female dog and another, another, another, another. It is animalism, That's all.
Satsvarūpa: The pure devotee gives the chance to everyone, but only a few approach. So still the question is how can they become interested in the pure devotee?
Prabhupāda: No, this is the..., that you do it. If they do not do it, then who will come? This declaration is there, that "If you do this, then you can be interested." But if you do not, then you go on with your own business. A similar... The same things Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parit... mām ekam. Kṛṣṇa is demanding that you do it, "Surrender unto Me." The śāstra also says, "Surrender unto the representative of Kṛṣṇa," mahīyasām. But if they do not do, what can be done? Just see this sparrow. The sex is always accompanying, any time ready. The pigeons, any time ready. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. That is the only attachment for this material world, viṣaya. Whole world is fighting for this viṣaya. "I must have nice eating, I must have nice sleeping, I must have very good sex, and I should be defended by bank balance, by military soldiers, by police force, by atomic weapons." This is going on. Defense. Rascal does not understand that "In spite of all these things, I will have to change the body, and the same thing will be available again, in a different way." This intoxication, cigarettes. The ant, the small ant, they are very fond of intoxication. You know that? As soon as there is information, "On the top of the skyscraper building, there is a grain of sugar," they will go. (laughing) Because sugar contains intoxication. The wine is made from sugar, molasses. It has got the intoxication. You keep a grain of sugar there, and there will be hundreds and thousands... (laughter) Gold rush. Study. You see what is the difference of this civilization and the ant civilization, dog civilization, cat civilization. No difference. It is in the simply formation only.
Guru-gaurāṅga: Cloth.
Prabhupāda: You means anyone.
Robert Gouiran: As a person.
Prabhupāda: You are also one of them. Either you or your friend, they cannot. It is impossible.
Robert Gouiran: So you mean that nobody should...
Prabhupāda: I don't say that. Why do you take in a different way? I say you cannot heal.
Robert Gouiran: Cannot heal.
Prabhupāda: Now in spite of this fact, if you try to do it, (it's) your business. But I say you cannot heal. If you want to go on, in spite of your inability to heal, that is your business, but I say I challenge that you cannot heal. That is my proposition. Now you go on with your business, that in spite of being unable to heal, if you go on healing activities, you go on. Who takes you? But I say you cannot heal. You are other (indistinct). Nobody can heal.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In the Bhagavad-gītā it says that those who are different modes of nature, they have different types of charity and different types of religion. So does this mean religions that are already established in the Vedas or...
Prabhupāda: That is means conditional religion. That is not absolute religion. In order to, what is called, summarize all types of religion... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ, "Everyone is trying to come to Me." So they are coming by different paths. So that is accepted. Now, when he says that "I am here. You're coming to Me, now you just surrender. Then everything is all right." Why don't you accept that? Why do you insist, "No, I shall come in a different way, different path"? What is this nonsense? God is saying "All right, you have got different paths, but give up that. Now simply surrender to Me." Where I am objection? If I am a really lover of God, God is saying like that, why not accept that? Why shall I pay for different paths? Eh? Suppose in this jungle you are scattered and you are searching "Where is Prabhupāda? Where is Prabhupāda?" And somebody says, "Come this way. Come this way." And if I say, "Not this way, that way. Come here. Come here." What is your objection? Eh? Either you don't want me... (laughs) Eh? You don't want me. You want to play some whimsical way. You are not serious about me? If you're actually serious about God, God says here, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām e... (BG 18.66). "Give up all this nonsense. Just surrender un..." Why they do not accept it.
Prabhupāda: It may not be evident to him, but why not others? (French)
Yogeśvara: He says one thing is that he feels kind of glad that it's more or less a question of opinion because if it was Absolute Truth, then it would be too restricting for everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, it is Absolute Truth. But there are different ways of understanding Absolute Truth. He is taking only one way, direct perception. (French)
Yogeśvara: He said, if it were an absolute truth, it would be evident to everyone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone is not advanced in knowledge.
Prabhupāda: What is scientist? Simply talking. Vikathyante. Vikathyante. This word is used in Bhāgavata. When one is covered by māyā, he talks so many nonsense things, vikathayante. (break)
Mādhavānanda: ...different living entities in different material bodies suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long you have a material body, you must suffer. Just like in prisonhouse. When the criminals are put there, they are punished different way according to the criminal offense, similarly, you are, we are all criminals, and for different types of suffering we have got different types of body. Different types of body means different types of suffering. Just like this tree is punished, "Stand here for three hundred years." This is punishment. Just like we do, "Stand up on the bench!" Children. So any kind of material body, even Lord Brahmā, that is suffering, different types of suffering. That's all. And if you want to be free from the suffering, then get out of this material body. This is... Kṛṣṇa says that this is a place for suffering.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Risky life. The animal is always in danger. A dog is running, but at any moment he can be in danger. I have seen in my own eyes in New York. It is little in the off from New York. In I think in the month of December or January, a dog was jumping and he fell in the water pool and immediately died. It was so cold it collapsed immediately. So what is the use of this dog-like jumping? Besides that, in the animal society there is no question of culture, religion, philosophy, science. Animal, they do not require it. And why man requires it? That means human society is searching after the transcendence. But without knowing the way, how to understand, they are now engaged in different way. You find out this verse from Bhāgavatam, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā na yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Find out. Kamasya nendriya-pritiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How petrol is produced in so large quantity? Who has made this arrangement? How it is producing? They are not interested.
Hṛdayānanda: So as you were saying then, just to manipulate the petrol in different ways, that's like the art, as you've been saying.
Prabhupāda: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Kṛṣṇa. His intelligence is also made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving the body. Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving the wood. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Tripurāri: Sometimes we defeat someone by our preaching, and we show them they should take the book, but still they don't take. But if we call them a fool and point out to them how they are foolish, they become offended. So rather that we just very humbly say...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our... We know that he is a fool, but we have to present in a different way. We shall say that "There is nobody as learned as you are." In this way just make him puffed up, and then you say humbly, "My only humble request is that whatever you have learned, please forget. Now you try to understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all." This is the different way of calling him, that "Whatever you have learned, this is all rubbish." We simply say, "Kindly forget them. Now you turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." This is the way Prabhodānanda Sarasvatī taught us. You flatter him, "Sir, I have got one request." Flatter him like anything, falling down on his leg and becoming humble and... "Sir, I have got one request." "What is that?" "You are very learned scholar. But kindly forget them, and you try to turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He will not be angry. Then, if he turns his attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then naturally he will forget all rubbish things.
Reporter: Swami, that isn't the thrust of my question. Yes, I have. The thrust of my question very simply is this: Can't people be spiritual without dressing in this fashion and dancing in the street?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes, you can become spiritual in your this dress. Simply you have to learn what it is from the books. The dress... dress is not very important thing, but still, in the material field, this girl is dressed in a different way, you are dressed in a different way.
Reporter: The way we dress lets us move in all circles.
Prabhupāda;: No, the thing is, dress is not very important.
Reporter: But you have your disciples dress in this way...
Prabhupāda: But just to draw a particular... Just like the policeman, he is differently dressed. One can understand that he is policeman. Similarly, we are also differently dressed so that people may understand we are Hare Kṛṣṇa people.
Prabhupāda: That is real spiritual understanding.
Reporter: But many different groups give the...
Prabhupāda: They are not... They have no spiritual understanding. Anyone who says something else beyond this understanding, that every living entity is servant of God, if he says something else, he does not know what is spiritual life.
Reporter: But there seem to be a lot of groups that are saying that, but teaching a different way to...
Prabhupāda: Different way... There cannot be dif... The way is one. God is one, and we all living entities, we are dependent on God's mercy. Therefore we are servant. Everyone is servant. We say that, that God is one, and every one of us, we are all servant of God. So let us engage in our original position as servant of God. This is our teaching.
Prabhupāda: They are wasting time simply and cheating others. That's all.
Reporter: They are wasting time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not understand what is their position; therefore their teaching is simply waste of time. This is the position: that God is great, and we are all dependent on God. Who will deny this? This is the original principle. Now, in one religious system it may be taught in a little different way. In another religious system it may be... But if there is no such sense that "God is the supreme, and we are all subordinate servant..." This should be the basic idea. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:
- sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
- yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
- ahaituky apratihatā
- yayātmā suprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.6)
He says that "That is first-class religion which teaches the followers how to become obedient to God." It doesn't matter whether it's Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion. If they are teaching this fact, that... Actually they are doing that. Muslim they say, allah akbar. Christian people say, "God is great," and the Hindus also say, eko brahma dvitīya nāsti. So you go... Just the same teaching.
Prabhupāda: So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is scientific, authorized. People has to give little attention. Then they will understand. Therefore we are publishing so many books, only about Kṛṣṇa. In every page you will find "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa." Either in Kṛṣṇa book or in Caitanya-caritāmṛta or in the Bhāgavata or in The Nectar of Devotion or in Teachings of Lord Caitanya, the word is Kṛṣṇa. That is simply explained in different way.
Ambassador: What does the word actually mean? Kṛ is the root for "making," isn't it?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa? Yes, kṛṣ. Kṛṣ means karṣati, "attraction" or "cultivating." "Cultivation." Just like cultivator, he, digging the earth, that is also karṣati. And there is another word in Bhagavad-gītā, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhāni indriyāṇi..., karsati. Find out this verse. Manaḥ-saṣṭhāni indriyāṇi prakṛti-sthani karṣati. Fifteenth Chapter. Karṣati. That is from kṛṣ.
Ambassador: Kṛṣ, then, has attractiveness and it has cultivator.
Prabhupāda: And cultivating, yes.
Prabhupāda: Sarvam etaṁ ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: "My dear Keśava..." Keśava, the another name of Kṛṣṇa... "Whatever You have said I accept them cent percent." Sarvam etaṁ ṛtam. Ṛtam means fact, truth. This is understanding. So if we accept in that way, then our knowledge is perfect. And if we accept in a different way... Just like Gandhi says that "I do not believe that Kṛṣṇa ever lived." Just see. He does not believe in the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they have written big, big comment on Bhagavad-gītā, even Śaṅkarācārya. He does not believe anyone. He believes himself. And that kind of belief is not help. And our process is: because Kṛṣṇa has been accepted by all the ācāryas, all the great sages, Arjuna has accepted—we accept, that's all. We have no difficulty. If I am child, I ask my father, "What is this, my father?" The father says, "My dear child, it is called coconut." Then, if I distribute this knowledge, "This is coconut," then my knowledge is perfect. I may not be perfect, but because I have heard it from my father, who is perfect about the knowledge of this fruit, so I have taken that word from my father, and I am preaching, "This is coconut," and this is perfect. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We are simply repeating the perfect statement of our predecessor. That's all. So there is no difficulty. We haven't got to write thesis on Kṛṣṇa. The perfect knowledge is already there. And supported by the ācāryas. And we are simply submitting that "This is Kṛṣṇa. This is God." That's all. All over the world we are placing this statement that "Here is Bhagavad-gītā, and Kṛṣṇa spoke. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Guest: And when Muhammad said that God is great, he simply said God is great, and he adds nothing to it for somebody who is well acquainted with Islam culture and he who knows well about Koran's teachings, it cannot be understood and accepted. It is the same with somebody who is well acquainted with Christianity and the truth spoken through Christianity. It is the same with the Buddhism or other ways which are designed, which are...
Prabhupāda: So your point is that God is understood in different ways. That is not point?
Atreya Ṛṣi: That's one of his points.
Prabhupāda: And what is the other point?
Atreya Ṛṣi: That all the scriptures speak of the same truth. Scriptures coming from God speak of the same truth that is in Bhagavad-gītā. And all the scriptures give a real path to God, and that there..., as many as individuals as there are, there are ways of getting to God, and that God could not be fair if He just gave one book at one time to one group of people. Being just, He has given the scripture... He should have...
Prabhupāda: No, just like dictionary. The small pocket dictionary is also dictionary, and the international dictionary, (sic?) Webs, that is also dictionary. So both of them are dictionary, but they are not equal. One dictionary is meant for children and one dictionary is meant for the higher scholars. So although are dictionaries, they are two kinds of dictionaries.
Prabhupāda: Where is the interpretation necessary?
Satsvarūpa: They say we interpret even in the word to word.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Satsvarūpa: They claim that we interpret even in word to word.
Prabhupāda: But how do you do? Just like dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Interpret in different way this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre? It cannot be interpreted. And how do you dare to say that "We can interpret word to word." In the beginning, you cannot do it.
Pañcadraviḍa: They clam, then, unless you speak Sanskrit, you have to interpret Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: No, that means if you are a nonsense, you better remain silent. Don't interpret. It is better not to talk than to talk nonsense. What is the meaning of that interpretation. If you do not know Sanskrit, stop speaking. Why do you make imagination?
Prabhupāda: There is no danger internationally. Suppose... Just like the Buddhists. They have got their all pilgrimages in India. Because Lord Buddha is Indian. He spread Buddhism all over the world. So all the Buddhist relics and pilgrimages are in India. Gaya Pradesh and other, Benares... So India government allow them free, freedom to come here as pilgrimage. So you are now Vaiṣṇava. Why they should not allow you to come to your pilgrimage in India, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace? You have adopted Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthplace. Legally, they cannot. They should, rather, make arrangement. But, from political point of view, they're thinking that "These Americans have taken to this religious garb. Actually they are intending something political." That is the general impression. C.I.A. What can be done? Therefore I was stressing this point that you Americans, if you make your country strong, Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will be good for the whole world. Actually you are doing that, but they are misunderstanding, in a different way. They cannot believe that an Indian guru can control so many American young boys on religious prin... Because nobody could do that. Just like all other, Mahesha Yogi and... He, they might have some American followers, but they are not coming here, taking so active part.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who is in the material world, he is not pure devotee. He has to become a pure devotee. But there are pure devotees. They come. They are not subjected to all this. They come for the deliverance of the fallen souls. They are above Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva.
Devotee (2): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, isn't Lord Brahmā the original spiritual master in our sampradāya?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we should take that it was his līlā to show that "Even I am subjected. How much you should take risk here." We should take like that because he's our guru. We should not take him that he was subjected to lusty desires, but he made a show that "Even I am also subjected." And he gave up this, changed the body for that. Therefore we should not observe if there is a show of fault of the guru. We should take a different way. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like the sun is soaking water from urine, but we should not imitate that, that "We also, let us take urine." Then you'll die. He can do so. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. The sun can do that. Still he is not affected. Everyone knows the sun soaks water from the urine. But should you imitate that: "Oh, let me take urine"? No. It is not for you. That is advised. Īśvaranam, those who are īśvaras, the controllers, there is no fault. You should not imitate them; simply you should imitate their instruction. Not that their activities which we may not understand, why he is doing that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world they have come to imitate God—adoration, fame, material profit. Just like this man. He has come to this country. He is getting money, he is getting woman, and becoming God amongst the fools. He is satisfied. That's all. This is not gain? If I get woman, money, and adoration, is it not gain for me?
Gaṇeśa: Yes, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: So you are increasing this cancer. Very comfortable at home, but there is cancer.
Paramahaṁsa: But now we have almost got the cure.
Prabhupāda: You have, all right. My point is that you have so many things, but the suffering is going on. That is my point. You increase your means of diminishing suffering, but they are coming in a different way. So the sufferings cannot be stopped. That is not possible. This is the conclusion.
Śrutakīrti: But we're learning how to enjoy even the suffering, make the best of it.
Paramahaṁsa: Best use of a bad bargain.
Prabhupāda: That is another bluff. That is another bluff. But then don't say that "We shall stop suffering." You can say that...
Prabhupāda: God consciousness, God consciousness. God is great and I am His eternal servant. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Two words: God is great and I am His eternal servant, I am small. This consciousness is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Jesuit: Do you know the prayer that the Russians use, the Jesus prayer?
Prabhupāda: Any prayer. God is one. Either you pray in a different way, I'll pray in a different way, it doesn't matter.
Jesuit: I know that but I want to know do you know what is known as the Jesus prayer which the Russians use?
Devotee: No, he doesn't know.
Jesuit: It seems to me that you chant, don't you, Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jesuit: That is a prayer, it's a rhythmic chant.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is prayer.
Madhudviṣa: It would indicate that the creation of this universe takes place in stages, over quite a long period of time, and this is what the scientists also claim. Darwin's theory is similar to that, that first there was water, then vegetation came up, and then gradually, gradually, each and every species evolved, like that. So is there some correlation between those?
Prabhupāda: But the varieties of creation, not that everything is coming like that. Just like Brahmā was first created, the first intelligent man. So although there was water, he was above water. He was on the lotus flower, which is not in the water. So that is also creation. So suppose this part is not covered by water—you see grass. But where there is lake there is no grass. So both things are there. Somewhere where there is water, unless the water is dried up, there is no grass. But somewhere you will find, immediately, grass. But there is no water. Or above water. So far the material elements are concerned, that is this stage. But the material elementary presentation, in different places, different way.
Madhudviṣa: From the Bhāgavatam we understand, though, that Brahmā first created human species of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, from him.
Guest 1: This, I think I remember from last year that the boys in New Zealand seemed to have a different interpretation of some of them, didn't they?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that may be, but we don't agree with that. We don't agree with that. Everyone has got the right to interpret in a different way, but we have to accept paramparā, the disciplic succession. Just like I have given one burfi. Everyone knows it is burfi, and if somebody interprets, "It is stone," so it will not be accepted. Everyone knows it is burfi, nice sweetmeat. Why shall I call it stone? But if somebody says, "I can interpret in this way," he can say, but it will not be accepted.
Bali-mardana: When they say accident, it simply means they do not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the meaning. But they will give a different way. They will never say, "No, we cannot calculate. We do not know. It is beyond our..." They say, "Oh, it is accident." And boys are going to understand science. They understand this, that everything is accident. So why do you go there to understand the accident, spending so much money?
Bali-mardana: (break) ...ask the scientists about the soul, they say, "We are not fit to say anything about the soul. We do not want to comment about the soul. So we will just not discuss it."
Prabhupāda: What they will discuss?
Bali-mardana: They like to discuss their own speculation, matter, material things.
Prabhupāda: And what is the use?
Prabhupāda: No, it is a fact. This factory working is most demonic. It is not required at all. For the interest of a few persons this device has been invented. Therefore the Communist movement is there. And the China has found the Communistic movement in Russia is defective because although it is Communistic, the whole idea of exploitation by the powerful is there.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, that is their argument actually.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is the fact. And Chinese Communism will be perfect if they take little instruction from us. We are also Communist, Kṛṣṇa Communist. We want that everyone should be happy. The Communistic philosophy is also like that. They want to see everyone happy. But they have made a materialistic center. That will not help. People are attracted to these bad habits of materialistic civilization. The most important is that sex and intoxication and meat-eating and gambling. So their attraction has to be changed. Otherwise, although these Chinese, they are pushing in the village, that village also will be a brothel. They must have some attraction. So where is that attraction? Just like the hippies. They do not like this civilization, but the attraction for the sex and intoxication they could not give up. So they remain the nasty again in a different way. The process should be mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That attraction. Mayy āsakta. "The attraction which you..., should be changed to Me." This yoga should be practiced. Then it will be all right. The same example: if you keep the dogs as dog, there is no possibility of making a peaceful dog society. That is not possible. You have to change their doggish quality. Then there will be peace.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. I have already said. If you are seeking after something, if you get that something, why don't you accept it?
Dr. Pore: Do you believe that Christ said that Kṛṣṇa was his father?
Prabhupāda: The name may be different. Just like in our countries we say this flower something. You say something, something. But the subject matter must be the same. Name is not... You can say in a different way, as you understand. But God is one. God cannot be two. You may give Him different names. That is different thing. But God is one. God cannot be two.
Dr. Wolfe: We may assume, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that God has innumerable names.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Pore: Is it possible to find Kṛṣṇa in the Christian tradition or in Islam?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes. Why not? Christians are seeking after God. You are going to the church. "O God." You accept God has created everything. Here also He says, "Everything is My energy." Where is the difference?
Dr. Pore: The Christians describe Kṛṣṇa in a different way. Are they making mistakes?
Prabhupāda: That is... Just like the heat, the question of energy, the heat 93,000,000's miles away from the sun, heat may be different, and in the sun-globe the heat may be different. But the heat is there; and light is there. The same thing: heat and light is the same, but the degree of presentation of heat and light may be different.
Dr. Pore: Is chanting absolutely necessary in the knowing...
Prabhupāda: That is the easiest way of being directly in touch with God. Because God and God's name, they are absolute, so your chanting the name of God means that directly in touch with God.
Prabhupāda: Now big, big scholars, they have taken the trouble to write on Bhagavad-gītā. But nobody has taken the trouble to write on other scriptures like Bible or Koran. Nobody has taken. No scholar, no philosopher have tried to comment or study because they know it is not very important. Here is important. This is the proof, wisest. And that is only ABCD of God's knowledge. So people should take advantage. It is accepted indirectly. There are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā, in your country, English. Why they take trouble to read Bhagavad-gītā so carefully? Big, big scholars, philosophers, why? (break) It is the impersonal, cloth. So Śaṅkarācārya has tried to impress this fact, but the rascals followed in a different way. Just like a cloth, big cloth, that is impersonal. Now, you cut it into coat. It becomes like person. So similarly this whole material world is impersonal, but because we have taken a certain portion of it and make my body, it looks like person. And God is not like that. He is spiritual person. He has nothing to do with material. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). What Śaṅkarācārya impressed, that they are after demigods, so "The demigods, they are not actual person. Real person is Nārāyaṇa." That is Śaṅkarācārya's version. Nārāyaṇa... You will find in his comment on the Bhagavad-gītā. First word he writes, nārāyaṇaḥ paro 'vyaktād: "Nārāyaṇa has nothing to do with this material world." And he accepts in his comment, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ: "That Nārāyaṇa has appeared as Kṛṣṇa." And he has given specific name of His father as "the son of Devakī and Vasudeva" so that nobody can misidentify. If you have got Śaṅkara's bhāṣya, commentary on Bhagavad-gītā, you bring it I shall show you.
Devotee (2): We have found in our experience that some kinds of men do better in doing business. They feel more satisfied in collecting money in that way for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But that money should be used for Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (2): Yes. Different kinds of men have to be engaged in different ways. Otherwise they become dissatisfied.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, svakarmaṇā. Anyone, he likes to do something, that is his karma. But by that karma, he can serve Kṛṣṇa. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate navaḥ. Saṁsiddhi means perfection. (break)
Devotee (1): ...in our preaching work we will be able to maintain our temples, and with our business activities, we will be able to expand and buy all these farms, do so many things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is favorable, do it, business.(?) Therefore we have made program: 50% must come to Kṛṣṇa, at least. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jayatīrtha: Is that civilization? Sandy Nixon: No, I agree a hundred percent. I want you to say these things, though, instead of me. I'm asking you questions so that hopefully that not by me describing anything... Prabhupāda: So these things are uncivilized way of life, and what they will understand God? That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: As it is. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, not symbolically.
Sandy Nixon: Are you attempting to revive... I feel like asking this question two different ways. First I'll ask it one way which is, in a sense, incorrect. Maybe I'll just ask it this way and just get your answer. Are you attempting to revive in the West the awareness... Are you attempting to revive the ancient Indian caste system in the West?
Prabhupāda: Where do you find we are reviving caste system? Where do you find? First of all let me know. Why you are asking this question? If you have seen that we are trying to introduce the Indian caste system, then you say. But if there is no such attempt, why you are asking this question?
Sandy Nixon: Well, because a lot of people are interested, and...
Prabhupāda: No, no, lot of people, you are also one of them. So where do you find that we are trying to introduce caste system? First of all find out where is the attempt. Then you ask question. Otherwise it is irrelevant question.
Prabhupāda: That is only. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhi... If you want to know God and your relationship with God then only through bhakti, no other. That is stated in the... Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Otherwise you will never be able to understand.
Prof. Hopkins: If the highest reality is Puruṣottama and Puruṣottama is manifested in many different ways in the world, can people come to Puruṣottama through various paths?
Prabhupāda: Various path means bhakti is the only path. Now all other paths they must come to bhakti. Without bhakti there is no possibility.
Prof. Hopkins: But must bhakti be directed to Kṛṣṇa only or...
Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. Bhakti means our transaction with Bhagavān. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So original Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: All of a sudden. He was sitting nicely. What he was thinking I do not know. But he took the opportunity of open window and jumped. I have seen.
Indian man (1): A kind of insanity overpowered him.
Prabhupāda: Insanity... everyone is overpowered by insanity, anyone in this material world and who is trying to be happy. Everyone is in insanity. They are trying to different way. They do not know the only solution is, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇa... (BG 18.66). That they do not, neither they'll accept.
Vāsughoṣa: Especially Indian people, you know, they say, "Well, if I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, who will feed me?"
Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian, American, everyone. Why you are, American, you are so proud of your...?
Vāsughoṣa: No. (laughter) No, but because in India people know that they should surrender to Kṛṣṇa, no?
Prabhupāda: But you also know.
Dr. Patel:ut I think the Christianity is nothing but bhāgavata-dharma. It has been preached in a different way.
Prabhupāda: They inquire, "What is your opinion of Jesus Christ?" And "He is our guru."
Dr. Patel: It's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I mean, that is what it is, what what we take, in fact...
Prabhupāda: We do not...
Dr. Patel: The Christians don't know that we take it like that.
Prabhupāda: Even if we say "Mohammed," why not? Anyone who has preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness, maybe little differently according to time, circumstances, but anyone who has tried to preach the God consciousness, he is guru. Yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettā, sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. Anyone who preaches about the Supreme Lord, he is guru. Maybe in a different way, according to time, circumstances. The Mohammed also said Allah akbar.
Indian man: The fish is. The swimmer will say the fishes are expert.
Prabhupāda: If he says that he is expert more than the fish, then he's a madman. So? Why he cannot become more expert than the fish?
Indian man: Because he's not meant to swim all the...
Prabhupāda: Then in which way he should be expert? He must show his expertness in a different way which the fish cannot.
Indian man: I suppose, in the mind.
Prabhupāda: Mind is working of the fish. He knows where is his enemy, where to go. They have got better mind. They can understand from two miles that some enemy is coming. They take care.
Bhargava: Why did Kṛṣṇa allow the Muslims to enter and do so much damage to the…
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is your father's servant that you do something wrong and Kṛṣṇa has to check it? Is your Kṛṣṇa your father's servant? Then why do you ask this question? If you allow somebody to cut your head, has Kṛṣṇa to come to save you? Why do you ask this nonsense question? You are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Samo ’haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu. If you cut your own head, what Kṛṣṇa will do? In the same term, nationalism, as Vedic culture is Kṛṣṇa's national affair, your disease is there. Why Kṛṣṇa will come to save the Vedic culture? What business He has got? If you are spoiling it, then why Kṛṣṇa will come? Spoil, and suffer. (break) … the same question in a different way, "Why India? Why Kṛṣṇa?" as if Kṛṣṇa is Indian. Kṛṣṇa is Indian? Then why do you ask this question, that “Kṛṣṇa will come to save India's culture?”
Prabhupāda: Syphilis. In Ayur-Vedic it is called phairanga, means this disease is imported from Western countries. Every dog has syphilis, and they contaminate the woman, and that is distributed to man. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. Now in India also, to keep a dog is aristocracy. Yes. Especially the tail cut. Now half-cut tail, that is aristocratic dog. Now they are making dog show in New Delhi. (break) Adjust. Kleṣada asa deha. Material body means different ways of giving trouble. I have got one trouble. He has got one trouble. He has got another trouble. He has got another. But nobody is coming to the senses that it is troublesome. And troublesome, at the same time you'll not be allowed to continue. It has to be ended. Then another change of body, and what kind of body you are going to get? That you do not know.
Harikeśa: In a system of bartering it's very hard to cheat.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no cheating. Everyone is simply simple, honest. And here the government begins cheating. He is engaging you to hard work day and night and paying you a piece of paper, where it is written "one hundred dollars." That's all. This is your society, cheating and cheater. That's all.
Harikeśa: People have a hard time understanding that point, because with a hundred dollar note you can buy things.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say you are all rascals. You do not know. If I say, the government may arrest me that I am infusing people in a different way. But that is the fact.
Harikeśa: So a government's duty would be to abolish this false standard of money, and then automatically...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Government's only duty is that government gives me land and I pay tax: "Whatever I produce, take one fourth." Finish. All taxes. If I don't produce, there is no tax. That's all. That is the business between the government and the public. That's all.
Reporter: You're going to be delivering two addresses next week at one of our biggest universities.
Prabhupāda: That he knows.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Monday and Wednesday. It would be nice if you would mention that in your article.
Reporter: Yes, I will. But I want to know what will you tell the people.
Prabhupāda: These things in different way, that "Come to your pure knowledge and make your plan. Then you will be happy. And if your basic principle is wrong, then whatever plan you make, it is useless."
Reporter: Yes. But, you see, the thing that worries me is that how do people begin to understand that their basic principle might be wrong?
Prabhupāda: Just as one goes to a school and gradually he understands what is one, what is two, what is three, what is "two plus two equal to four," how to place. It is a question of learning, education.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They say that every planet gives light. That is not fact.
Indian man: The reflection I think, of the sun...
Prabhupāda: No, there is fire.
Indian man: In the moon too there is fire? But it is cold, as the, our sages say.
Prabhupāda: It is surrounded by cooling atmosphere.
Indian man: It rotates?
Prabhupāda: In a different way, not as they explain.
Indian man: They rotate.
Prabhupāda: Just like my hands is moving... (break) ...like that.
Indian man: And it does not go all around other planets?
Prabhupāda: No.
Cyavana: They all move together?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Prakṛteḥ kriyamānāni guṇaiḥ sarva... (BG 3.27). You are fully under the control of the material nature. You must submit.
Dr. Patel: Yaṁ yaṁ vā... tyajanti deham. That is how, I mean, Bharat got mṛga because he was continuously in his mind was there.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no such education, that there are dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13) and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mūḍha. Mūḍha, rascal. Duṣkṛtino mūḍha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāh (BG 7.15). He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and make his life perfect, but because he is mūḍha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.
Dr. Patel: They know... These Russians are the only hundred-percent body conscious. The Carvakas. Who are they? They are descendants of Carvakas, these Russians.
Prabhupāda: No, in India also, all these political leaders, big ministers...
Dr. Patel: No, no. The Communism itself is Carvakism in a different way. Our sanātana-dharma is a communist-dharma, when you see the same eye, everyone in equal. But they don't want that way. They want other way. From body consciousness, not from soul consciousness, they want Communism. Sanātana-dharma preaches us Communism from soul consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Where is the understanding of soul? Everyone is puffed up with his body. Nobody considers even that "When I say this finger, 'my finger, my head, my leg...' "
Dr. Patel: And who is that "my"?
Prabhupāda: And who is that "I"?
Prabhupāda: Why God? Why not scientist ? (laughter) Pray to scientist. Why the order was for God, not for the scientist? Churchill also, when the war condition was very, very severe—they were going to be finished—then he asked everyone to go to church and pray. That "V"? "V"? Victory: "For victory, go and pray."
Harikeśa: Well, they were thinking God was on their side.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they are thinking of God but in a different way, that "God is my order supplier. God is not to be worshiped, but He has to supply as I order." That's all. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...this book written by one priest during the war. The name of the book was Somebody Up There Likes Me, referring to God.
Prabhupāda: Still, he did not dare to utter the name of God.
Brahmānanda: No, he said "somebody."
Prabhupāda: "Somebody."
Prabhupāda: Gradations, that I give the example: stool, this side and that side, the dry side and the moist side. Somebody says, "Oh, this side is very good. It is dry stool." (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You have to examine in a different way.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is very good example. Stool is stool, but they are thinking, "This side is very good because it is dried up.
Dr. Patel: We see a thing from any angle, sir.
Prabhupāda: Now, this is also one of the angle.
Dr. Patel: Scientists have got different angle.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no different angle. It is foolishness. Stool is stool, this side or... If you say, "This angle is very..." The same thing.
Dr. Patel: The human stool is a stool for the human being. Does it not become a food for a stray dog?
Prabhupāda: That is human stool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guror hitam. The brahmacārī life means only for the benefit of guru. Everything is there in Bhāgavatam.
Dr. Patel: That mode of teaching, I mean...
Prabhupāda: That can be introduced.
Dr. Patel: In a different way is there in America, sir. The American professors keep boys with them. They imbibe in them complete spirit of their educa... I mean, their mode of...
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Dr. Patel: Not this, I mean, the material. But that is the way they do it. That is why their method of education is better than others.
Prabhupāda: They drink.
Prabhupāda: And he has given reason, quotation, how simply he's speculator.
Dr. Patel: As a matter of, sir, the whole cosmos is full of, I mean, intelligence. That is God. But then that intelligence is struck in different way to the, what you call the mind, which is embedded in the matter. So, I mean, each one explains it in his own way, as he understands...
Prabhupāda: No, no. You cannot explain truth in your own way.
Dr. Patel: The whole truth nobody knows and sees. Even our śāstra says.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Things which one does not know, he should not try to cheat others by placing some untruth.
Dr. Patel: It is like five blind men seeing an elephant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should not give the conclusion that "Elephant is like..."
Prabhupāda: Ah. Either behave or stay, the same thing. Unless you become fire, you cannot stay in fire.
Dr. Patel: That's right.
Prabhupāda: So these people, they realize arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). By severe austerity and penances they rise to the Brahman platform, but from there they fall down. Why? Adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. Because brahmam platform means to be engaged in devotional service. Brahma bhūyāya kalpate. Mām ca yo'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena (BG 14.26). If you want to stay on the Brahmam platform, then you must render service to Kṛṣṇa. And if you simply realize that "I am Brahman," then you'll be misguided by māyā: "Oh, you are the Supreme Lord. You are Bhagavān. What is the use of worshiping another Bhagavān? You are Bhagavān." māyā says it in a different way. māyā says that you are a rascal, but think that you are Bhagavān.
Kīrtanānanda: We've seen the example used, Prabhupāda, that just like a man, if he goes to sleep at night and he dreams that he has committed some murder or some...
Prabhupāda: So why does he dream?
Kīrtanānanda: ...he enjoys or suffers the activities, but actually he is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, but why he dreams like that? One is dreaming like that, another is dreaming a different way. That is due to his practice. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Śrīdhara: People say then that the soul must be impure. If the soul can, not...
Prabhupāda: Impure in this sense: that he has come in touch with the impure. And if he becomes untouched with the impure, then he is no more impure. That is described in Bhagavad-gītā,
- māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
- bhakti-yogena sevate
- sa guṇān samatityaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
Immediately he becomes pure. Kṛṣṇa says,
- sarva-dharmān parityajya
- mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
- ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
- mokṣayīṣyāmi...
- (BG 18.66)
"I shall make you immediately pure." Why don't you do that? You want to remain impure, so you must suffer.
Harikeśa: And if it's a different chemical, that means there's so many thousands and billions of chemicals. Yet they can't even find one of them.
Prabhupāda: They do not know even one of them.
Harikeśa: They don't even know one of them.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) And still you are proud. What is this nonsense? And supposing the chemical combination is there and is being administered in different way for different life, then who is making this arrangement? Somebody's there who is making arrangement. You cannot do that. Therefore we are inferior, He is superior. You have to accept. It is not that it is not existing. It is existing. So as you are trying to do something, somebody has already done it. Then what is your credit?
Haṁsadūta: On the one hand, they say that the creation was a chance, accident, and on the other hand, they're trying to find the law of nature. So this is a contradiction.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And the law. Just see. And law, law, nature is not giving him chance. And he's depending on chance theory. He's so unfortunate rascal that he does not get even the chance. So discuss these things in different ways and issue a small pamphlet in Russian language. Or any language. Doesn't matter.
Harikeśa: Oh, in Russian!
Prabhupāda: They're the greatest atheists.
Harikeśa: Oh, that would be.... A dialectic spiritualism pamphlet in Russian. That's big. Russian. (break)
Prabhupāda: The land is very nice. All flat, flat land. Hundreds of miles.
| Page Title: | Different ways (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 26 of May, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=110, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 110 |