Prabhupāda: The first misgiving is that I am this body. Everyone is under the concept of this body. This is... I am not this body. That is a fact. But body is changing. There are many examples. One of the example is a very common example. Suppose a man is dead. Now everybody is crying, and if we ask "Why you are crying?" "Oh, my son is dead." I can say, "Your son is lying here. Why you are saying that he is dead?" "No, no. He is dead. He is gone. His body is lying." Therefore he is different from the body. Immediately you can understand. You say, "No, he is gone. His body is lying." Don't you say at that time? So you understand at the time of death that the man was different from the body. But during this lifetime, I was taking care of his body only. Why did I take care of he? Because I did not know him. You see? This is a misgiving. In this way there are so many misgivings. We are situated in a platform of misgivings only, misunderstanding, our present conditional life. Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country? This is also another misgiving.
Different from... (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore diet shall not be extravagant or whimsical. They must be selected. First of all we have to see what is the diet of the human being. Actually I read in some scientific magazine, a medical magazine, that our teeth is not meant for eating meats. These teeth are meant for eating fruits. Actually the shape of the teeth is like that, just like sharp knife. You can, apple you can take immediately. But if you take one piece of meat, you cannot eat so easily with these teeth. So first of all you have to understand what is your diet. So your diet is different from animals' diet. You take anything. Even stool is food for a certain animal, but that does not mean I have to eat stool also. Stool may be eatable for a certain type of animal. "Oh, that is not my diet or food." Similarly, we have to discriminate. Now so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa conscious person, we are studying Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are completely different from the hippies, because hippies they are addicted to sex and intoxication, and these things are completely forbidden in our temple.
Interviewer: You do perform wedding ceremonies?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: What is your wedding ceremony like?
Prabhupāda: The same chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: ...from where everything emanates. He is the source of all life. Whatever we see, it is in the Absolute Truth. All these universes, all these planets, all the suns and moons, the sky, and everything, they have come from the original source, the Absolute Truth. Now, in the material world we have got so many contradictions, but that contradiction is there also in the Absolute Truth. Just like fighting. Fighting is not a very good thing, but still, the fighting spirit is there in the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, how fighting can be exhibited? So the theory, nonviolence... Nonviolence is not absolute. Nonviolence and violence, everything is there in the Absolute Truth. But in the Absolute Truth, either nonviolence or violence, they are absolute. Here we have got bad effects of violence, but when violence is performed by the Absolute, it has no bad effect, it has good effect. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and Arjuna was denying to fight but Kṛṣṇa was asking him to fight. So the fighting was good because it was the will of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. Therefore at the end of understanding Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna agreed, "Yes, I shall fight." So fighting for the matter of executing the desire of the supreme will is also absolute. It is not different from Absolute Truth. So sometimes it is...
Prabhupāda: That is real meaning. But this is simultaneously one and different. When this tape recorder will play, it will play exactly I am speaking to you. There will be no difference of voice. If somebody hears from other room, he'll understand that Swamiji's speaking, but still, that speaking is different from me. Because my energy is working there. Similarly, there are two kinds of energies. Just like when I am speaking, this is my real energy, and when this tape recorder will speak, that is also my energy, but that is separated energy. Similarly, this material manifestation is separated energy, and there is direct energy. The direct... This material energy, separated energy, is the reflection of the direct energy. Just like when this tape recorder will be replayed it is the reflection of my original speech. Similarly, this material manifestation is a reflection of the original energy, internal energy.
Prabhupāda: Without energy, he is incomplete. Sun without sunshine is incomplete. Is it possible? Can one think of sun without sunshine? Similarly, the Māyāvāda theory that the absolute is without energy, there is no energy, absolute is... They have misunderstood. The energy is not different from the energetic. Just like sunshine is not different from the sun, neither the sunshine has got any existence without the sun, nor the sun can exist without sunshine. They are so intimately related. Similarly, the Lord and the energies are so intimately related, they cannot be separated, but they are not one. This is the whole philosophy. So we are praying to the original energy, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because energy and the energetic, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, They are not separate, but it is pleasure. When They are separated, Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, that is energetic, that is giving impetus.
Prabhupāda: I really think I've asked most of the questions that I want to ask. I really sort of knew the answers. The ultimate of the answer, that is. I can't really think of much else to say or to ask. Have you anything that you'd like to say that may be of some kind of revelation to me or to our readers or something that... You know, what you're really saying, there's no easy way out. (laughs) If man is to attain any goal in his quest for fulfillment, he's got to work at it is really what it amounts to. So your message is really no different from that of Moses or Christ or any of the other great religious leaders. If people will follow the ethic of Ten Commandments, and follow it, that's where it is.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Vedic states, Oṁ. So at least we can understand from your Bible, that God said, "Let there be creation." So this is sound, and there is creation. God and His sound is non-different, absolute. I say, "Mr. Ginsberg," this sound and I, a little difference, but God is non-different from His energy, nitya... How it is called? Śakti śaktimator abhedhaḥ. Śakti, energy and śakti-mat, the energetic. They are non-different. Just like fire and heat, they are non-different, but heat is not fire. You can not differentiate heat from fire, or fire from heat. But fire is not heat.
Allen Ginsberg: Well the sounds, the sound kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes, is non-different from Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: ...is not different from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore, this sound kṛṣṇa...
Allen Ginsberg: Under all circumstances?
Prabhupāda: No. Why not senses? This is Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa. But at the same time... This is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. Acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. That is very easy... Suppose this is gold. But this gold is not the gold mine. There is a difference. It is gold. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa, but still is different from Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Eka-sthānī sthitasyajñer jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. The same example, that the sun. The sun is, sun-god is situated one place, but it is fiery. Blazing fire. Its heat and light is expanded. You see practically, the heat and light. So whatever this material existence is the sunlight, sunshine. Everything existing on sunshine. It is scientific. Your electricity, your this, that, whatever you take it is all sunshine.
Prabhupāda: If that śabda, of course, identifies with God, we have no objection. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis. God has many names. God is attractive, His name is also attractive, because He's not different from His name. If you have got exactly the same attractive name, we have no objection. We simply say, "You chant God's name, holy name." Then you become purified. That is our program. We don't say that you change your Christianity. No. We don't say. If you have got a nice name, all-attractive name, in your scripture-don't manufacture but authorized—then you chant that. We simply request, "You chant."
Prabhupāda: Energy, being nondifferent from God, in one sense, it is God, but energy is not God at the same time. The same example. Just like sun and the sunshine. Sunshine is the energy of the sun, but sunshine, if it enters in your room, if you think that "Sun has entered into my room," that is wrong. But sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni... (BG 9.4). (break) "Everything is resting in Me." That means in His energy. But not that everything is God.
Prabhupāda: I say everything is God's energy. Everything is not God.
Guest (3): Everything is not God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the same example I gave immediately that the sunshine and the sun. Sunshine is not different from the sun.
Guest (2): How can the sun itself be different from it's energy? Sunshine is energy, sun is energy, and both of them...
Prabhupāda: No. This is an example. Sunshine is also energy. Everything material is an energy of the Lord. That's all right. But I'm giving you the example that sunshine and the sun is one, but at the same time different, simultaneously. You cannot accept sunshine as the sun. Suppose you are in the sunshine, you cannot say that you are in the sun planet.
Prabhupāda: You may have ideas, but I don't agree with your idea. If... I say that anything take it material or spiritual they are different energy of God. Matter is not different from God as it is energy of God, but still matter is not God.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand this point, that whatever we see, that is distribution of energy of God. But energy and the energetic is not the same. But they are same as...simultaneously same also because you cannot separate. Just like fire and heat. You cannot separate heat from fire but heat is not fire. Just try to understand this. Heat is not fire although heat and fire cannot be separated.
Prabhupāda: Especially. Yes. Especially for Kṛṣṇa, you can.
Hayagrīva: And if we want to, for Rādhā, capital "S."
Prabhupāda: But Balarāma is not different from Kṛṣṇa.
Satsvarūpa: So He is capital "H."
Hayagrīva: So He is capital "H." But then here we go. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, no. You limit to these three. That will do.
Hayagrīva: Limit to those three.
Prabhupāda: Or Viṣṇu. Yes. Viṣṇu.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the śāstra as garhitā. Garhitā means it is not beneficial for you." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although ātmā, the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body... Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, they manufactured another...
Prof. Kotovsky: And this, the actual Hindu law which was used by Hindus, they're quite different from original Manu-smṛti.
Prabhupāda: No, they have now made changes. Just like our late Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. He made some Hindu code. He introduced in that Hindu code the right of divorcing husband and wife. But these were not in Manu-saṁhitā. And, of course, they are changing. If you like, you can change. But the social order also not exactly the same as it was before.
Pratyatoṣa: That's different from this. That's if you aren't getting this educational package, then you've got to pay all these rates. Some of these rates apply anyway.
Devotee (4): All this rate business, you know about it. I just want to look at the program. What is this?
Pratyatoṣa: That's a Dolby system for recording with less noise. That's for tape recorders.
Devotee (4): Why don't you check that? I'll just keep this (indistinct). What's this?
Pratyatoṣa: That's for the computer system. That's courses that are available over the computer.
Devotee (4): Over the computer?
Pratyatoṣa: Yeah, the computer teaches.
Devotee (4): Oh, yeah. Just like these computers, you can learn the language.
Pratyatoṣa: This is like a mechanical tutor.
Devotee (4): But you can even learn this Edit language over the machine, right?
Prabhupāda: Machine teach language?
Prabhupāda: It's Kṛṣṇa's mission to awaken man's original consciousness. At the present moment we have got designated consciousness. I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking Englishman, another is thinking American. But actually we are neither American nor Indian nor any that sort of designation. We are part and parcel of God. That is our real identification. If we come to that consciousness, then all the problems of the world will be solved. Now, due to our designated consciousness, we are thinking, "You are different from me, I am different from you," but if we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we shall know that we are one, the same spirit soul, maybe in different dress. That is the explanation given in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Just as sunshine is not covered, it is called cloudy. But this light, whatever light you are seeing, that is also sunshine. That is not different from the sunshine. And above the cloud, there is bright. So matter means when it is covered by something, it is matter. That covering is unconsciousness. That covering is also created of the sunshine, by the same energy. And then, by the same energy it is dissipated also. So the conclusion is living being, when it is covered by ignorance, that is material.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is also... Everything is there. But actually, it is Kṛṣṇa, but we cannot see. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. The whole cosmic manifestation is Kṛṣṇa but it appears it is different from Kṛṣṇa. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. This is acintya-bhedābheda. So unless we accept the thesis or philosophy expounded by Lord Caitanya, inconceivable one and different... Inconceivable. For us it is inconceivable. You cannot have any clear distinction. Therefore take it as inconceivable, acintya. But from theoretical or by logical conclusion, everything is one: Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And another example is that the finger is myself, but I am not finger. This is the position. The hair I am. I am the hair, but I am not hair, at the same time. This is like that. This is called acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable.
Prabhupāda: So far I remember, I was also a student of philosophy, Dr. Urquhart, he said the philosophy is science of sciences. The science, there, I mean theory, begins from philosophy. Philosophy is the science of sciences. But according to Vedic verses, a philosopher is not a philosopher if he has not a different opinion from another philosopher, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... Therefore, through the philosopher you cannot come to the right conclusion. Tarkeṇa aprāptaś ca. If you simply go on arguing that will also not help you. If you simply read scriptures that will also not help you. Because there are different scriptures. Bible is different from Vedas and Vedas is different from Koran. So tarka... by argument you cannot come to the conclusion, by simply reading scriptures you cannot come to the conclusion.
Dr. Weir: Well, I think there's a double difference always with these things between the subject and the object. If in other words, it's objectively necessary to gratify the senses, if you like. In other words, you've got to have diets and things like that, and you've got to breathe, but you can also get a subjective pleasure out of doing that which is different from just doing it automatically. Sometimes we know when we're busy, we just shovel our food down. We don't really have any gratification out of it. We just ha...
Śyāmasundara: Yes. There are four basic principles that Prabhupāda mentioned, eating, sleeping, mating and defending, which are natural for the animals or to the humans. But man is using his propensity, his conscious propensity, to simply enjoy material nature on a more advanced level: to eat better, to sleep more, to have better sex life and so on. It still boils down to that. Everyone is seeking sense pleasure.
Prabhupāda: Such propensities are there in animals. Then what makes the difference between animals and man?
Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. I'm also answering this point. Just like Kṛṣṇa, His name, His form, His pastimes, His entourage, they are all the same. Otherwise, what is the benefit of chanting Kṛṣṇa's name? Suppose I am thirsty just now. If I simply chant the name of water, "water," I'll not be satisfied. Water is required, actual substance. But when you chant "Kṛṣṇa," if Kṛṣṇa name is different from Kṛṣṇa, then you... (end)
Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that sunshine is not sun. But without sun, where is the sunshine? So you cannot say sunshine is not sun. But at the same time it is not sun. It is sun and not sun, both. That is our philosophy. Acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable. In the material science you cannot conceive that a thing simultaneously positive and negative. That you cannot think. That is inconceivable energy. And because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy, Kṛṣṇa can manifest Himself from any energy, and act. Therefore, when we worship Kṛṣṇa made of something of earth, water, or something like that, that is Kṛṣṇa, that is not Kṛṣṇ... You cannot say it is not Kṛṣṇa. When you worship this metal form of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Because metal is energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is non-different from Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can present Himself fully in His energy. So this Deity worship is not heathenism. It is actually worshiping God, provided you know the process.
Prabhupāda: No, earth... Earth has no separate existence without Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "It's my energy." You cannot separate the energy and the energetic. It is not possible. You cannot separate heat from fire. But fire is different from the heat. And heat is different from the fire. You are taking heat, that does not mean you are touching fire. Fire, in spite of expanding heat, it keeps its identity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa by His different energies creating everything, He remains Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think, "If Kṛṣṇa is everything, then Kṛṣṇa's separate identity is not there." That is material thinking. Just like drinking this milk, so little, little, when I finish, there is no more milk. It has gone to my belly. Kṛṣṇa is not like that.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever you do, you do all together. That is merging. But you are all individual. Your personality is different from his. His personality different from him. He is from you. But because you have got one interest, therefore you one. Just like we. We are so many individuals. But our interest is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are one. Try to understand what is merging into one. You are all individual. Nobody can be... It is not something material. We are all spirit soul, so we are all individual. But if our interest becomes one, then we merge into one. This is oneness. Try to understand this oneness. Oneness does not mean void, no. Oneness means when our interest becomes one; that is oneness. Real oneness means to be interested in Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness.
Prabhupāda: Yad yad vibhūti. Any, anyone who is showing some extraordinary power, he is supposed to be incarnation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo 'ṁśa-sambhavam. The brilliant energy. He represents the brilliant energy of Kṛṣṇa. And the energy is not different from the energetic. (aside:) Hm. What is that?
Devotee: I just said that this is a very good sound track of your speaking—this chanting and...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: "Back to nature" means first of all your nature is different from other's nature. An animal can lie down anywhere on the street. Can you do that? So how can man go back to nature like that? A dog lying down on the street... Here, of course, every dog has got a master. In India there are many dogs, they haven't got master, so they are eating anywhere or lying. But you cannot do so. If you lie down on the street at night, perhaps you'll be arrested. Is it not?
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...because you have got material eyes. Because your, you have got your material eyes, you cannot see the spiritual form. Therefore He kindly appears to be in a material body so that you can see. This is the point. Because He has kindly made Himself just fit for your seeing, that does not mean He is..., that He has material body. Just like President Nixon, if he kindly comes to your house, it does not mean that his position and your position is the same. It is his kindness, out of love, he may come to your house, but that does not mean he is on the same level with you. Similarly, because we cannot see with our present eyes what is Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa appears before us as painting, as made of stone, as made of wood. And Kṛṣṇa is not different from these paintings and wood because everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, you will never see the darkness. This is because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name are absolute; Kṛṣṇa is not different from His name. Kṛṣṇa is light, and if we associate with the name of Kṛṣṇa, we remain in light. Remaining in light is a very simple method; therefore you see all these boys with their beads chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. In this way māyā cannot touch them. No intoxication, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. How can these boys, who have been trained to practice these four items from the beginning of their lives, give them all up? Everything is possible, provided we make the choice. Therefore according to Vedic civilization in the beginning of life you become a brahmacārī.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Milk? So many nice preparations given by Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I eat meat? Where is the necessity? Human being must discriminate what he shall eat. If you say, "Everything is food," then stool is also food for the hog. But the food for the human being must be different from the hog.
Guest (2): Is it our duty to convince everybody and to argue with people and say, "Now..." Because most of the people would argue for, "Where is your protein?" "Needs his protein," and you know, when they talk in terms of body consciousness rather than Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It's very hard to argue with that.
Prabhupāda: That means there is no life. If you want to keep it frozen, that means after this body there is no life.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it doesn't, because they want to study. For example, the brain of the advanced scientist, they want to study how his brain is different from ordinary people. So they can do some studies, research, on different bodies, parts of the bodies, just to differentiate why this body is different from the so many bodies.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is, desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientists. But your consciousness is different from theirs. Therefore you could challenge him like that. If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says that I do not know. He is not confident in his science.
Śyāmasundara: Unless you think that you have made some by your vote or something.
Krishna Tiwari: No, I never made that. No. That was the difference I was going to tell. If you'll give an example of a government, that is very different from the example of nature.
Devotee (1): Yes. No analogy is perfect. So it's more like the Russian government, let's say. Right?
Prabhupāda: That government, what does it mean, "government"? Government means also a person, like president.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of faith. Faith may be wrong, belief may be wrong. That perfect knowledge can be received from the perfect source. So God is perfect. God is perfect. And one who follows the path of God, he is also perfect.
Mr. Wadell: But he is different from God, is he not?
Prabhupāda: Maybe. Just like...
Mr. Wadell: But this is important to me. Can, can...?
Mr. Wadell: In what respect do you consider yourself different from God?
Prabhupāda: Do you think I am also equal with God?
Mr. Wadell: If you, what I want to know is what you feel your relationship to God is.
Prabhupāda: My relationship is just like father and the son. The son is not different from the father; at the same time, he is different from the father.
Mr. Wadell: Yes...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, but God is Absolute. God and God's photograph, there is no difference. God and God's name, there is no difference. Therefore God is Absolute. He is not relative. You can say, "The photograph is not my father," that because it is relative. But God is Absolute. God's name, God's form, God's pastimes—everything is God. That you have to understand, Absolute nature. Otherwise are these boys and so many thousands and thousands of devotees... They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa, this name, is different from Kṛṣṇa, are they foolishly simply chanting Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself. Just like any political representative or business representative, he's, if he's a confidential representative, there is no difference between the king or the proprietor of the firm, so long he represents rightly. Similarly, anyone who represents God or the cause of God, he's not different from God.
Prabhupāda: He must realize that he's not this body. He is different from body. But I am encaged now in this body under certain condition. So at least this... This is called jñāna. Jñāna. So long one is in the bodily concept of life, he is affected with so many things. So many things. So this bhakti-yoga begins when one is purified from the bodily concept of life. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Now, these boys, they are coming from different nations. But they never think that one is Englishman, another is American, another is Indian, another is African. No, we don't think like that.
Lord Brockway: I think the only thing I'd say is this, that whilst the body that you have and I have is different from the body, the material body, when we were a child, it has been a continuous transformation. It hasn't been the ending of one body and the beginning of another. And in the process of change, a, an existence is carried on. It isn't like death, which means that at that point your personality becomes separated from your physical body suddenly, like that. It is different.
Prabhupāda: No. We become separated from the physical body, but we remain in the astral body, or subtle body, mind, intelligence... mind, intelligence and ego. That mind, material mind, material intelligence, you give up when you actually remain in your spiritual body.
Prabhupāda: No. Anyone who knows that... That I have explained. That everyone is sitting on the floor. So everyone knows that he is not floor. He's different from the floor. Is it very difficult?
Bhagavān: No.
Prabhupāda: So this is knower. Similarly by common sense we can understand that we are not this body.
Yogeśvara: It says in the purport: "Now the person who identifies himself with the body is called kṣetrajña, the knower of the field."
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: That is ultimate goal. So long we do not go back to home, back to Godhead, we have to, in our material existence, we have to change from one body to another. That is going on. And there are 8,400,000 forms of bodies. The cats and dogs, they are also living entities, but they have got a different type of body. Every one of us, different type body. Even they are children, their body is different from your body. Even the (indistinct). Although their body is obtained, there are some similarities. But if you analyze very scrutinizingly there will be some difference from your body, from your daughter's body, from your boy's body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is already there. When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is already there. When we speak of Vṛndāvana, Vṛndāvana is already there. It is not that we have manufactured some picture, imagination, no. They take it like that. The rascals take it like that, that it is a kind of imagination of the poet. The Māyāvādī philosophers also take like that. But that's not the fact. It is actually presentation of the spiritual facts and as the spiritual activities are quite different from material activities, they misunderstand. They misunderstand.
David Lawrence: Yes. It's one of the interesting features was, of this little bit about Lord Caitanya was in fact that he claimed Him to be pathological.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Pearl: If my leg could be healed, and I want to advance spiritually.
Prabhupāda: Well, leg, you are different from leg. Yes. Even leg is not healed, you can be healed.
Pearl: You mean healed spiritually.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real healing.
Pearl: Because it's keeping me from things I should be doing you see. I can't meet all my responsibilities through it.
Prabhupāda: Give me little water. When they come to logic, when they give logic. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Evolution of matter. Matter cannot evolve. That is not possible.
Dr. Hauser: But evolution of life...
Prabhupāda: What is that life? That is different from matter. That is a different energy. That I am speaking. Matter is... Life is the origin of matter. The evolution is not of the matter, but of the life. That Darwin does not know. Therefore I say nonsense. He does not know that.
Dr. Hauser: Yes. But I feel in the...
Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there. You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet. So that point is missing in Darwin's theory. He says that body is evolving.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Yes. Now we are constructing our own temple also, very big temple. You had been in Vṛndāvana?
Prof. Gombrich: No, I haven't, I'm afraid. No. And do you think that the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is very different from the message of realizing God which is promulgated in other religions, for instance the Śaiva religion or...?
Prabhupāda: No I don't think so. Any religion, you follow nicely. Just Christian religion, there is God consciousness. So actually it is not this religion or that religion. People have given up religion. All over the world they have no more interest in religion. And especially I see that in your London that so many churches are vacant. Nobody's going there.
Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So this is a blind civilization going on. We are trying our bit to educate them that the aim of life, especially in the human form of life, is different from the bodily necessities of life: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of persons, one may attempt to become successful in his life." Siddhaye, siddhi. This is siddhi, how to conquer over birth, death, old age and disease. And manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. The modern civilized man is so dull, he does not know what is siddhi. They think that "If I get some money and one bungalow and one car, that is siddhi." That is not siddhi. You can get a few years a very nice bungalow, a car, nice family. But any moment this arrangement will be finished and you have to accept another body. That you do not know.
Prabhupāda: He's always with Kṛṣṇa. Simply he has forgotten. Have you not been with Kṛṣṇa? We are standing on this sand. The sand is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy. We are standing by the water. This is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Don't you read that? So is it different from Kṛṣṇa?
Yaśomatīnandana: No, but it is...
Prabhupāda: My body is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. I am also Kṛṣṇa's energy. I am always with Kṛṣṇa. Simply I have forgotten it.
Yaśomatīnandana: But this is Kṛṣṇa's inferior energy, right?
Prabhupāda: That may be. That is a comparative study, inferior or superior. But it is energy.
Prabhupāda: That may be. That is a comparative study, inferior or superior. But it is energy.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: As energy, it is not different from Kṛṣṇa, as energy.
Yaśomatīnandana: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: Yes. As energy, how can you differentiate from Kṛṣṇa?
Umāpati: You give the... It could be described as like the growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Umāpati: The growth of the plant is the inferior energy, and the... (loud waves)
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. That is comparative study. But... (loud waves) Energy is not different from the energetic. Sunshine is not different from the sun. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Everything is Bhagavān, but it appears like different.
Yaśomatīnandana: Is that what it means by sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Everything is spiritual, but when it is... due to our ignorance, we think it is material.
Prabhupāda: Gap of understanding because the basic principle is wrong, because everyone is fool. And they are trying to understand things with their foolish background. There is the wrong. They are trying to be advanced in knowledge on the foolish background. They do not accept that, that they are foolish rascals. And they are trying to advance in knowledge, active-foolish, fourth class men. Their background is wrong. No scientist, no politician, no philosophers, at the present moment, believe in this, that there is soul, and the soul is transmigrating from one body... Nobody believes it. So their whole background is foolish. So their so-called advancement must be all foolish. They're all fools, rascals, animals. An animal does not know that there is soul and the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. This is animal conception. You cannot teach these pigeons that "You are spirit soul. Your body's different from you."
Prabhupāda: That you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So you are gentlemen. You have got a different dress. I have got a different dress. He has got a different dress. That does not mean we are not human being because we have got a different dress. Similarly, all living entities—there are eight-million, four hundred thousands forms—they are all sons of God. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. So they have got different dresses only. But because they have got different dresses, they are not different from me. This is God consciousness. So therefore, when one is God conscious, how he can kill another animal? He knows that "If I am killed, I feel pains and pleasure, pains, then why shall I kill him? And he's also son of God. I am also son of God. So God, how He can allow to kill another son?" Suppose a father has got ten sons.
Prabhupāda: That all right, but the father's body is different. The father's pains and pleasure and the son's pains and pleasure are not the same. It may be that the father has given the ingredient of the body, but that does not mean the father's body and the son's body the same. Neither the mind is same, neither intelligence is same. It is all different. Otherwise why a son becomes disobedient to the father, "I don't agree with you"? That means, "Your intelligence, your mind, is different from my mind. I cannot agree with you." Therefore everything is different.
Prabhupāda: From Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). He is the origin of everything. Don't you read Bhagavad-gītā? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. The atomic energy is different from sarvasya? Sarvasya means everything. Everything comes from Him. The atomic energy must come from Him. Right conclusion.
Devotee: I was wondering. They say they are splitting the atom, and Kṛṣṇa is living within the atom. When they divide the atom, there is so much energy released.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Because Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore you will find Kṛṣṇa's energy.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Prajāpati: From our Kṛṣṇa conscious standpoint, this means a person who is jagad-guru, who is fully living śāstra, and therefore non-different from the word of God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Because he is following the words of God, therefore he is not different from the words of God. It is practical. Just like a lawyer is not different from the law. Therefore he is called lawyer.
Prajāpati: But like you were mentioning this morning in class, how they are cheaters. They simply say they are lawyers, but instead they are breaking the law.
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda. That is Māyāvāda.
Dr. Patel: Even if you say guru is body,...
Prabhupāda: They make also Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's inside different.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa's body is different from your body and my body. Kṛṣṇa body is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you make a... Once you say that guru is equal to Kṛṣṇa, and again Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa is not different, but guru's body and guru's soul is different.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī means who thinks like that...
Dr. Patel: All right, now, that is right.
Prabhupāda: ..."Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is different from His body." That is Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: There is no body of Kṛṣṇa. Whole thing is body.
Prabhupāda: So Māyāvādī does not know that.
Dr. Patel: And those people...
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvādī. They think that Kṛṣṇa comes with a "māyā body." Therefore they are Māyāvādīs.
Prabhupāda: That is preaching. Just like... Nava-vidhā-bhakti.
- śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
- smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
- arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
- sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
- (SB 7.5.23)
They're all perfect, but it appears śravaṇa, hearing, is different from kīrtana. Or kīrtana is different from smaraṇam or pāda-sevanam or arcanam. But they're all perfect. So one should be engaged either in śravaṇam, kīrtanam, smaraṇam—as he's fit. This is the... Suppose I cannot speak, kīrtanam, but I can hear. That is as perfect. Ah? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. So one may argue that "Speaking is better than hearing." No.
Prabhupāda: No soul, no God. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is God, soul, and Vedānta philosophy, that is also God. So Buddha philosophy different from Vedānta philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy.
Guest: The approach is different, yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest: The approach is different.
Prabhupāda: Approach? The end is different. Now how you'll adjust Buddha philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy?
Prabhupāda: Oh. So what is that practically?
Guest: The practical result?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: The practical result is, uh.... I don't see it as being far different from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, though the approach may be different.
Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa consciousness is stress is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). It is directly always thinking of Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: So that is...
Prabhupāda: To offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa, to worship Kṛṣṇa, to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you get a diamond body. Just like glowworm. Glowworm, it has a glowing body. That's all. But the glowing substance is different from the soul. Owner of the body is different. What he's doing? (break) ...came other day, morning?
Guest: (indistinct) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...have purchase this land for him for preaching Christian Bible. So he, maybe he was getting some salary on this land in this way. He gave up Gauḍīya Maṭha association and he became Christian. So I know that this land belonged to him. His wife was there.
Prabhupāda: But you should come to this, that there is, in the bheda, abheda, there is bhedas. In the abheda... It is very simple thing. That my hand is not different from my body, but still, hand is not body. It is... A child can understand.
Dr. Patel: But when the child grows, he does not understand it. That is the misfortune of this.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Dr. Patel: Māyāvāda! Māyāvāda, no?
Prabhupāda: Unlimited hand. Unlimited hand. That, that you cannot... "How Kṛṣṇa have body, this?" The Māyāvādī philosophers think, "How there can be body? If He has a body, then He has limited potency." He cannot understand that although He has got body, He has got unlimited potency. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. That is different from this body. Because he understands that "There cannot be any body different from this," they say nirākāra. Not nirākāra. He has got body. He has got senses. He has got hand. But not like you.
Dr. Patel: Sarvendriya-guṇābhāsaṁ sarvendriya-vivarjitam...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also puṇya-karma.
Guest (1): (Hindi) Helping these temples, hospitals...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple construction is different from hospital construction. That is for Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): But suppose somebody's doing hospitals. Is it not for others?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But how many you can give shelter? A few. There are so many suffering people. You cannot provide hospitals for all of them. The hospitals are increasing, and the disease also increasing.
Girirāja: "Bāhū-arms..."
Prabhupāda: Aneka, that is in one. Therefore this aneka is not different from the one. But this aneka does not mean that one. Read.
Girirāja: (continues synonyms) "Translation: O Lord of the universe..."
Prabhupāda: Still, although he saw aneka in Kṛṣṇa, still, he is seeing Kṛṣṇa there. That is real vision.
Girirāja: "O Lord of the universe, I see in Your universal body many, many forms-bellies, mouths, eyes-expanded without limit. There is no end, there is no beginning, and there is no middle to all this."
Dr. Patel: ...common features of Kṛṣṇa are common to all paramparās. It can't be different from one another.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramparā. He says, "As soon as this paramparā was lost, the Bhagavad-gītā was lost." Naṣṭaḥ, it is said, naṣṭaḥ. "Therefore I am taking you again as paramparā." You see? If you do not accept...
Dr. Patel: What you say... I mean... Listen. This is one of the way of seeing things.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you see... open, open (indistinct)
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa is so multifarious and so multiple energies He has got that only ekasmin...
Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness. What is that, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā?
Prabhupāda: ...advancement is different from others. There are three stages: bodily, mental, intellectual, and above that, spiritual. So we are propagating spiritual advance. Therefore those who are on the bodily platform, mental platform, or intellectual platform, they cannot understand our process. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahiḥ means external. Those who are captivated by the external feature, they cannot understand what we mean by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The external feature, those who are on the bodily platform, they think this material advancement, big, big house, big, big road... This is also required, but this is not all.
Haihaya: Some people say that what make us different from the animals is that we can enjoy art and we can enjoy music and we can enjoy all type of art...
Prabhupāda: The animals... the snake also can enjoy music. Do you know that? You play very nice music. A snake will be charmed. He will stand. It will not attack you. Similarly the deers... The hunters, they play very nice music, and they assemble here, and they fight and kill them.
Nitāi: The birds are also making their music.
Prabhupāda: No. That is another thing. But these deer and the snakes, many animals, they are very much fond of music. They enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, truth is for everyone—if it is truth. Truth cannot be different. Chinese truth is different from Indian truth. That cannot be. Truth is the truth, provided it is truth. You take something myth as truth—that is different thing. So the truth is that this body is formed on the basis of that spiritual spark. That is the truth.
Dr. Sallaz: For our opinion, scientific knowledges, they speak about the genetic code, and for us, the genetic code is very simple, and we have prepared a revolution, for instance, in the genetic questions in replacing the thousand of books of explanation, scientific, with a single truth, and this truth explains all the genetic code, very simple. (break)
Swiss Man (2): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says this seems to be somewhat different from the traditional Hindu practice, since in the Manu-saṁhitā, for example, śūdras are not to be instructed.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but we do not keep him śūdra. A devotee is no longer śūdra. We are creating brāhmaṇas. Just like these Europeans and Americans. They, according to Manu-saṁhitā, they are mlecchas, yavanas. But we are not keeping them mlecchas and yavanas. Just like these European and American boys. They are accepting the Vedic regulatives principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. So they are no more śūdras or caṇḍālas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So he's different from the Father.
Prabhupāda: Even not different. But he says that he's son of God. We accept it. Why there are so many religions? If religion means acceptance of God, then here is God. Then make one religion. Why so many different religions?
Guru-gaurāṅga: In America there are two new sects, religious sects, that appear every month.
Prabhupāda: Every month. Different sect.
Devotee: Two.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You've said that the Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa's mind.
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not different from His mind. Why do you say like that? This is material conception, the soul is different from body, the mind is different from soul. But Kṛṣṇa has no such difference. Therefore He's called absolute. Advaya-jñāna. His mind and Kṛṣṇa are the same. Kṛṣṇa and His name is the same. Kṛṣṇa and His words are the same. This is Kṛṣṇa understanding. Jesus Christ simply said that "Hallowed be Thy name." That means there is name. Now the question is why he did not say or utter the name? Now, there is already name. Why should he utter?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is everything; again Kṛṣṇa is... That is... What is the verse? mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā: "I am spread all over the universe in My impersonal feature." Jagad avyakta-mūrti..., mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). "Everything is in Me." Nāhaṁ te..., "But I am not there." This is called simultaneously one and different. Acintya-bheda, that one has to understand. Where there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is different from Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, everything is Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: The other religions do not give any...
Prabhupāda: We are not talking of religions. We are talking of science.
Bhagavān: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Who's that spiritual master, says soul and the...
M. Lallier: Oh, I don't know very... I think you are one of them. Or...?
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say. We say spirit soul is different from the body. Just like you are living, staying in this room. The room and you are two separate things. Because you are staying in the room, it does not mean you are room, or the room is your self. Does it mean?
M. Lallier: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It means so? Because you are staying in this room, you are this room?
Prabhupāda: But we are not doing that. We are, in the material world, we are teaching Kṛṣṇa philosophy, practicing. All these young men, they are actually twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are different from them. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He thinks that the people in western world, mostly now they take Indian religion, some religion or philosophy come from India, because the Christian philosophy has some defect.
Prabhupāda: Very good. (French)
Prabhupāda: The people's representative is different from God's representative. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that "Well, that's a belief." You have to believe that. He said that's only a belief.
Prabhupāda: No, people change according to the time, circumstances, they change. Their opinion has no value. We don't give any value to the people's opinion. We give value to the Supreme Being's opinion. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that that's dangerous because then we run the risk of having people who say, "Well, I represent the word of God. I can give you the true interpretation of the word of God, and they're actually only interested personal, private interests..."
Prabhupāda: You say the consciousness and body is the same. So when it is cut, why there is no consciousness? Therefore the body is different from consciousness. Therefore body is different from consciousness. (French)
Devotee: And also if he says that the soul and the body are the same, then what is the cause of death then? Then what is death?
Prabhupāda: No, we say the soul goes away from this body. Just like if I am sitting here, I can go away from this room, so similarly, the soul is within the body, he goes away, and therefore the body is dead.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... That is the real process.
French Woman: But it is not yoga. It is different from yoga?
Prabhupāda: No, it is bhakti-yoga.
French Woman: Prapatti is different.
Prabhupāda: Prapatti is bhakti-yoga.
French Woman: You take it in bhakti?
Prabhupāda: Bhakti, yes. Prapatti means bhakti. Just like I can surrender unto you when I have got full faith and devotion unto you. Otherwise, I cannot. That is wanted. If we simply surrender to God, then everything is complete. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, the prapati is described, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), this word: "After many, many births of philosophical speculation or personal endeavor to understand what is God, when he's actually wise, he surrenders unto Me."
Prabhupāda: The cats and dogs, everyone? The same? (German)
Pṛthu: (break) ...different from cats and dogs in as much as he has something spiritual in himself, and she says if this spiritual is more emotions and so on.
Prabhupāda: So what is that difference? (German)
Pṛthu: Cats and dogs are animals, and they don't have, animals, they don't have any spiritual life. They live more after instincts.
Prabhupāda: So if the man and animal is working for the same purpose... Just like man is eating, and the animal is also eating. A man is sleeping, and the animal is also sleeping. The man is also having sexual intercourse, and the animal also doing that. And man is also fearful of his enemy, and the animal also fearful of enemies. So if the platform of activities are the same, why the difference is there? (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is beyond. That beyond is realized, as I explained to you, in different angle of vision. Some, impersonal, without any variety, and some, localized Paramātmā, and some, the Supreme Being. As you are sitting, I am sitting, we are talking, so the Absolute Truth is a person, Supreme Person, Supreme Being, and we approach Him, talk with Him, sit with Him, play with Him. That is Kṛṣṇa realization. First of all, negation of the material varieties, then impersonal realization, then localized realization, then personal realization. Just like a diseased man. First of all cure, then healthy activities. A diseased man has got activities. He also eats, he also sleeps, he also evacuates, but all troublesome. Therefore, being disgusted, he wanted to make everything zero. But if he hears that again sleeping, again eating, again evacuating is healthy life, he thinks it is something like his diseased condition. But healthy life is different from diseased life.
Prabhupāda: When we dream, my body is left on the bed and I go somewhere. That we experience, that I am separate from this body. At that time I forget my, this body is lying down on the bed. I am acting in a different atmosphere. So and again, in daytime, I forget that at night I was in a different body, and I went to such and such place or on the sky I was flying. I forget. At night I forget this body and at daytime I forget that body. But I am existing. Therefore I am not this body. I am existing in this body and that body, but that body I have forgotten, and this body I forget. So this is a structure on my mind only. Actually I am different from the mind. And that is self-realization. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ (BG 3.42). Find out this verse. Manasas tu parā buddhir buddhes tu yaḥ saḥ. That's it. It is in the Third Chapter, I think.
Prabhupāda: Time is eternal. Time is eternal, but we calculate time, past and present and future, according to my temporary material existence. Just like a small ant. The ant's past and present is different from my past and present. I am a human being. I live for hundred years. So my past and present is different from the ant who lives for, say, a few hours.
Professor Durckheim: Is different from?
Prabhupāda: From the ant, a small living entity. And similarly, Brahmā, his past, present, is different because he has done millions and millions of years as one day. So the time is eternal, but according to our condition, occupying the time and space, we calculate past and present and future. Otherwise time itself is eternal.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience is also material. That is not spiritual experience. That experience is going on continually so long we are materially attached. Because in the material world we are constantly changing our body. Your experience in childhood is different from the experience at this time. So as we are changing our body, we are getting different experiences, and all those experiences are photographed within the mind. And they sometimes come out and make an intermixture, and we see dreams and so many contradictory things. This is going on, mental speculation. That is hovering on the mental plane. That is not spiritual plane.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is experienced, but on account of his foolishness he is thinking otherwise. He knows that "I am not this body. I am now in this body of old man, but I was not in this body, say, fifty years ago. Therefore I am not this body, that body or this body. I am different from the body." This is very easy experience. I am existing. I understand that I existed in a baby's body. I existed in a child's body, boy's body. So I have now changed so many bodies. Therefore I am not this body. Just like you dress. You are now in black coat, and next moment you can be in other color. But you are not this coat. You have changed the coat. Similarly, I have changed the body, but I am not this body. This is self-realization. First of all let me know that "I am not this body; I am living within this body." You are not this coat. If I ask you, "Mr. Blackcoat," that is my foolishness. You are neither black coat or white coat. And that is self-realization.
Prabhupāda: With the body. But the body is false, false in this sense, that you are not this body. You are simply... Just like I am occupying this apartment, but I am not this apartment. I am different from this apartment. This is understanding. So if you take interest of the apartment and you forget yourself, that is false. (German) If I simply decorate this body, apartment, and I don't eat myself, then what is the... This is false attempt, that we are trying... This is called. In the Bhāgavata it is said that aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Now, this body, just you or I, everyone, we are nicely dressed. But if the life is gone from the body, if you dress the body, is that very good intelligence? You have understood?
Prabhupāda: The soul is different from the body.
Vedavyāsa: Yes, but at the same time, he says there must be a very intimate connection of, actually a oneness of body and soul. That is what is now.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. P. J. Saher: As long as we are alive.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not oneness. Just like this room is important so long I am living. Otherwise it has no importance. (German) (break) ...soul is gone from the body, even the body is very dear, I throw it away.
Prabhupāda: The simplest method is to associate with the Father, or the Absolute Truth. By association. This association can be possible. God, His name, His form, His pastimes, His abode, His paraphernalia, everything is God, because absolute. First of all you should understand this Absolute Truth. Just like here in the relative world the name of a person is different from the person. But in the absolute world the name and the person the same. So we are teaching or preaching this, that you chant the holy name of God, you associate immediately with God. And if you associate immediately with God then gradually you become Godly. The example is, just like you put one iron rod in the fire it becomes warm, warmer, warmer and, at last, red-hot. When it is red-hot, it is no longer iron rod, it is fire. Similarly, if you simply associate with God then gradually you become Godly or or all the qualities of God. Then you understand God and your life becomes perfect. (German) (break)
Dr. P. J. Saher: Has the name a special esoteric meaning? And is the technique of chanting the name, has this a special hidden purpose that the unenlightened...
Prabhupāda: No, not hidden but open because Absolute is not different from His name. Therefore when you chant the name of the Absolute that means you associate with the Absolute. And as soon as you associate with the Absolute you become purified.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Like iron in fire.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's right. (German) (break) ...Vedic injunction:
Prabhupāda: And His being Absolute, His name is not different from Him. The name and the form and the quality of God, they are all Absolute. Therefore chanting His name means associating with God. So when one associates with God, gradually He becomes godly. And when he is fully purified, then he becomes associate of God. (German)
Pater Emmanuel: (German)
German devotee: (translating for Pater Emmanuel) But we can understand the name of God only in a negative way.
Pater Emmanuel: Allow you a question? You know that we Christians are also preaching the love of God, and we seek to fulfill the love of God and to serve God with all our heart and soul. And what different from your movement who will the same? And why do you send your disciples in these Christian countries to preach the love of God when the gospel of Jesus Christ is also preaching the love of God, God love?
Prabhupāda: But if you don't mind, I can say that the Christians are not obeying the orders of God. Do you agree or not?
Pater Emmanuel: I agree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra means Kṛṣṇa, the Lord, and Hare, or Harā, means Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like you are there, the heater is there and the heating energy is there, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there and Kṛṣṇa's energies are there. Just like the sun is there, and the sun's energy is there, the sunshine, heat and light. Is it not? There is heat and light. That is from the sun. But still, the heat and light is different from the sun. Suppose you are in the sunshine. In one sense you are in the sun, and in other sense you are not in the sun because sun's temperature is so high, had you been in the sun, you would have been immediately blown up, burned into ashes. But you are in the sunshine, the energy of sun. So, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is situated as the supreme fire, and whatever we are experiencing, that is His energy.
Prabhupāda: In one sense you are in the sun, and in other sense you are not in the sun because sun's temperature is so high, had you been in the sun, you would have been immediately blown up, burned into ashes. But you are in the sunshine, the energy of sun. So, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, is situated as the supreme fire, and whatever we are experiencing, that is His energy. Although sun is... The example, sun is 93,000,000 miles away, but (on) account of the sun's energy spread, we are feeling the presence of sun. Similarly, we have to associate with God, Kṛṣṇa, by chanting His holy name because Kṛṣṇa, being Absolute, He is not different from His name, and therefore, if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra without any offense, then you directly associate with Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot say, "Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion." Religion is religion. That's... God is neither Hindu, Muslim, Christian. God is God. God is one. We... It may be that God is one, but we understand Him from different angles of vision, and that different angles of vision may be called as Christian angle vision, the Hindu angle vision, this Jew's angle vision. But that is angle of vision. Now, just like the sun is there. Here we see it is not so bright, but you ask some Arabian friend. What is, he will say, "it is very bright." So his appreciation of the sun is different from your appreciation here. It is cloudy; it is misty. But the sun is the same. There is no such thing as Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion. It is all sophisticated. Religion is one. You must know what is God, and you must know what is order and abide by it. You are religious. That's all. We are preaching that.
Prabhupāda: No, no, on principle it is, as Kṛṣṇa's color is there, Kṛṣṇa's flute is there, Kṛṣṇa's peacock feather is there, these things... These are described in the śāstra. Veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁ samasitāmbuda-sun... (Bs. 5.30). So Kṛṣṇa's... Suppose even a painting of yourself. One man paints a little different from your face. Another man paints. But on the whole, it is the same. In that way Kṛṣṇa is not depending on the painting but on the features of His description as it is in the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa's color is described there. Kṛṣṇa's peacock feather is described there. Kṛṣṇa's flute is there. Kṛṣṇa's ever eternal consort... Praṇaya-keli. In loving mood always, Kṛṣṇa... Praṇaya-keli-kalā-vilāsam. He's always in enjoying spirit. So we get idea. Idea of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa being Absolute, the idea of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent.
Prabhupāda: And you remain the drop. That's all. Because... Now, suppose your body, material body—earth, water, air, fire—now, when this body will be decomposed, so this form will not remain. Does it mean that your body has become the whole universal material elements?
Guest (2): No. But surely body is different from soul.
Prabhupāda: That body is a drop in the bigger material elements. That does not mean your body has become the whole material elements. Similarly, a drop of ocean water is drop always. It does not become ocean. It appears that it is mixed up. But mixed up does not mean the drop will become as ocean. That is not the fact.
Dr. Harrap: There is a certain difference here in that milk that we get from cows has a very low proportion of what we call polyunsaturated fatty acids, only about two per cent, whereas in human milk this is about ten or twelve percent. It's a much higher level. So milk from cows, which are ruminants, is quite a lot different from the milk that we get from the non-ruminants, and of course, humans are non-ruminants.
Prabhupāda: But I think there is a book, "Miracles of Milk," written by one American gentleman. He has greatly valued the milk and milk products. Similarly, we Indians, we give very, very importance to milk and milk products.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guru-kṛpa: The sun is different than Vivasvān?
Prabhupāda: Not different. Just like the sunshine is not different from the sun globe. Sun globe means all the inhabitants there, they are glowing. Therefore the whole planet is glowing.
Guru-kṛpa: Vivasvān, he is...?
Prabhupāda: He is also glowing.
Guru-kṛpa: He will stay as long as the sun... He is present?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has got a duration of life. When the creation will be annihilated he'll be annihilated. He'll be not annihilated.
Prabhupāda: How do you not glow? How? God has made you not glowing, and He has made them glowing. That's all. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).
Haṁsadūta: I mean to say is there a difference between...? Just like we have fire here, is it different from the glowing there? You said the sun is not fire.
Prabhupāda: Hm. No, no, without fire how there can be glow?
Haṁsadūta: So they have fiery bodies.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: But when we see fire here it is also living in that way? Some living entity?
Prabhupāda: Ultimately, just like the government is imperson, but ultimately the president is person. The government is going on under the order of the president. Therefore impersonal government is not so important as the personal president is important. Another example: just like the sun, and the sunshine, and the sun-god, three things. The sunshine is impersonal, and the sun globe is localized, and within the sun globe there is sun-god. So in one sense they are all one, means heat and light, but the sunshine is different from the sun globe. When... Just like here is sunshine in this room, but that is not sun globe. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. Is it clear? Any question about this?
Prabhupāda: That is this. Therefore I am particle; He is whole. Therefore difference. When God says, "I am," and I say, "I am," there is difference. I am particle "I am," and He is whole "I am." (laughter) Another, a millionaire says, "I am," and his servant says, "I am," but both the "I's" are same? So God is great. He says, "I am." He is great "I am." And I say, "I am." I am small "I am." Therefore this "I am" and that "I am" is different. This "I am," when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," this "I am" and this "I am" is different. So not always I am the same. So far I am concerned, my identity, your identity is concerned, that is all right, one. But you "I am" and I "I am" not, different. The soul as soul, it is all right. But as particle, as whole, they are different. Yes, that is to be understood. God says, "I am," means "I am the whole." And I say, "I am"—"I am the particle." So therefore we should understand that when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," they are different. (break) Your consciousness, your identification, my identification, my consciousness is different. And because we are different, therefore we are considering what is the ultimate goal. So in spite of difference, you can say "I am," I can say, "I am," He can say, "I am," but that does not mean there is no difference. My "I am," I am different from you, "I am." This is to be understood. I can say, "I am," you can say, "I am," but this "I am" and that "I am" is different.
Prabhupāda: The physical defect... Just like a driver of the car, and when his car is damaged, the driver becomes very sorry that "My car is now broken, damaged," but is the driver the carriage? Sometimes a valuable car is damaged and the proprietor or the driver, he becomes very sorry, almost half-dead, "Oh, my car is lost." So this is due to his too much attraction for the car. When the machine car stops (it) does not mean the driver is damaged. But he thinks, "Now, I am finished. My car is damaged." But although he is not the car, he thinks that he is damaged. So that is mental disease. He is different from the car, but he thinks that he is damaged by the damage of the car. And if he knows correctly, that "What is that? I will get another new car," what is the cause of suffering? The driver is not the car, but on account of his too much absorption, identifying the car with him, he suffers. So if the psychiatrist informs him that "Why you are sorry? You are not the car," then he is cured.
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not I am talking of God. I am talking of the constitutional position of the living being. That is science. So just like the same example: the driver is different from the car, but when there is some defect in the car, we are not advising that don't take care of the car. But if you simply take care of the car and don't take care of the driver, that is the basic mistake of the civilization.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying because this body can be used for intellectual advancement, therefore he's saying that sometimes people become so much concerned with intellectual things that they neglect their body.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he has come with the idea that in order to pursue the philosophy, whatever philosophy we have, that the body must be in the best possible condition.
Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that the driver is different from the car. But if you simply take care of the car, not of the driver, is that very good intelligence?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He agrees with that, that one should keep the body in the best condition in order to try to advance in life as far as possible.
Prabhupāda: No, unless you take care of the driver, the car cannot run.
Prabhupāda: That we also say. We never say... I have already given the example that the driver is different from the car, but if you simply take care of the car and do not take care of the driver, is that very good intelligence?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): So he agrees with you.
Prabhupāda: So the driver is not in order—he may create disaster at any moment. So the insanity is not of the car, but the insanity is of the driver. So when we feel problems of the humanity, it means the insanity of the soul, not of the body. And because the driver, or the soul, is not taken care of, therefore so many problems are coming in the body.
Prabhupāda: No, no, try to understand. Just like here is a son, and here is a father. So there is no difference because the son is the expansion of the body of the father. So how the body and expansion of the body can be different? They are one. But still, in relationship, son is son, father is father. In relationship... Just like the mother is there, and her relationship with husband is different from her relationship with her son. In that sense, the son and the father, different, but in quality they are one because son is the expansion of the father's body. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. That is real understanding. So if the son sometimes says, "I am one with the father," there is no controversy because he is one in quality.
Satsvarūpa: Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.
When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him."
Prabhupāda: Absolute, that is absolute.
Prabhupāda: It is changing now also, they are so... Change is of the material world, in the spiritual world there is no change, absolute. In the relative world there is change. So our definition of religion is little different from the worldly definition. Our definition... "Our" means there should be the real definition: religion means the laws which are given by God.
Professor Fenton: Sanātana-dharma.
Ānanda-mārga woman: I said when I surrender to God...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means God is different from you; otherwise how you can surrender to Him?
Ānanda-mārga woman: Right. When I am out, off in the world, when my mind is working, then I'm separate from God. I have made myself separate from God by the senses, by my mind, thinking. But then, when I...
Prabhupāda: Then you have to accept that you are one and different from God simultaneously. That is the conclusion, that you say sometimes that you are one, and at the same time you say different, therefore the philosophy comes to this point, that you are simultaneously one and different from God.
Prabhupāda: Then who will realize? You are different to realize. You say the God is within you. Therefore God is different from you, but He is within you. You require to realize. Therefore you are different from God. Otherwise there is no question of realization.
Ānanda-mārga woman: You see. What I have experienced, I believe it's my home. I believe it's where I have come from, because it is beyond whatever I have experienced in this worldly life. And so I see that I have a different shape. I have a body and I have a mind which distract me from my true nature, which is God, which is godly and which is beautiful, which is light.
Prabhupāda: That I can understand, that sometimes you realize that you are one, and sometimes you realize that you are different. That means simultaneously you are one and different from God. This is the conclusion. Acintya-bhedābheda. This is the philosophy, acintya, inconceivable, one and different, one because we are one in quality, and different in quantity. That is our position. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. The Vedic information is like that, that He is the Supreme Being amongst all beings. He is also being, we are also being, but He is the Supreme Being. So as being, we are one, but as Supreme and subordinate, we are different. This is the conclusion. As being, living being, we are one. That is not very difficult. Just like in your country the king, the Shah, he is also a being and you are also a being.
Prabhupāda: You said that association may be as pompous. That means there is no another association.
Indian man: No, pompous is different from the real purpose.
Prabhupāda: Then I do not know what is your real purpose. You say, "There may not be. There may be." Again you say...
Indian man: No, Guruji, you yourself have quoted the ācāryas.
Prabhupāda: So one who is following the ācāryas...
Indian man: Were they not Kṛṣṇa conscious?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they say. Therefore I am giving their proof.
Prabhupāda: Change. So the body has changed. But I remember that I had such a body. Therefore I am different from the body. I wish to possess again that body, to jump, but I cannot. This is the condition of my life. By nature's law I am getting one body and I am changing to another body. This is going on. So as in this life I have got this experience, that I have changed my body, similarly, the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa, says that "When this body will be finished, you'll get another body," very simple thing. But these rascals do not understand. All these rascals, they do not understand. There is practical experience, and there is authoritative statement, and still, they do not know, and still, they are big, big professors, big, big learned scholars, doctor, scientist, philosophers.
Prabhupāda: Ātmā's nature. One question should be understood, thoroughly. You have asked what is the nature of ātmā. The ātmā's nature is that he is eternal. He never dies. Never takes birth. He is already existing. Just like, you were a child, you were a baby. The body is no longer existing. Your childhood body is no longer existing, but you know that you were a child. You remember your childhood days. Therefore, you are different from the body. The body is passed away, but you remember that you had a body like that. Therefore you exist. You know that you'll become an old man. So this body will not exist. Another body you will get, old age body. Therefore you will exist; the body will change. Now try to understand this fact first of all, and if you cannot understand, ask questions.
Prabhupāda: That will take long time. That, also, if you follow the regulative principles... It is difficult, little. But easier method is to live with the devotees because the situation and atmosphere in your home is different from devotion. So it is not very helpful. You have got other members in the family?
Indian boy: Yes, there is...
Prabhupāda: So if you want to do something, they may not like it. So that is impediment. But if you live with the devotees, then you learn quickly the art. You are Indian?
Indian boy: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom you are coming?
Prabhupāda: So changing. So you are changing your body. That's a fact. But because you are seeing all in one spool, you are thinking, "It is growing; it is moving." That's all. But it is changing. This is the science. So body is changing. And you remember that you had such-and-such body. Therefore you are different from the body. This is the science. So unless we understand that "I am not this body. I am different from the body. I am changing bodies. Therefore I will have to change this body and accept another body..." This is the science, beginning of scientific knowledge. Without understanding this fact his advancement of knowledge is simply for eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. There is no advancement. According to Vedic literature, he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Prabhupāda: The knowledge should be acquired from the beginning of life, from childhood. But if by circumstances I could not get this knowledge from childhood, then we should begin immediately. Because unless we get this knowledge, our life remains imperfect. We remain animal. The animal does not know this. And after evolutionary process, coming to the human form of body, if we keep ourself in the darkness of animal life, then our this opportunity is lost. This is the first problem. Unfortunately, the modern education is... Leaders, they have no education, and they are thinking just like animal that "I am this body." Therefore you are thinking you are Australian, I am thinking I am Indian, he is thinking American, he..., only on this bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. We are different from this body. So unless we understand this point, our aim of life, our standard of civilization, is incorrect.
Prabhupāda: ...inferior energy of God. Matter is not different from God. Find out, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Because everything is emanates from God. He is the father of everything.
Jesuit: God has created everything, yes. But not everything is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: That I already said, that God is..., everything is depending on God, but not everything is God.
Jesuit: No, true. So this, no matter what you do to it, it must remain matter.
Prabhupāda: This is matter, but when it is used for God, this is spirit.
Hari-śauri: ...that this type of personality was existing millions of years ago. (break)
Amogha: Of the 400,000 human species, what is the distinguishing characteristic that makes one different from another? How could we recognize them, or could we?
Prabhupāda: You have not seen varieties of men?
Amogha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, what is the...
Amogha: Well is it divided by country or within one country there are many species?
Guest 3: We've got a different consideration here, you see, because the law that we have is very different from God's law. And I think that... (break)
Prabhupāda: You must accept God's law, not the people's law.
Guest 1: Well, the problem is that we're confined by the state law here just as the boys with the flowers. Now, maybe in Kṛṣṇa's law they did nothing wrong, but they were still subjected to being taken away like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he saved them. He saved them.
Prabhupāda: Cold for you, (laughter) not for them (laughs). Everything, these rascal scientists consider in relation, relatively. But relative world means every living being is relatively existing with a condition. And he is thinking only his relative condition. That is their foolishness. You cannot fly in the sky; a small bird will fly. That is called relative world. For his condition, it is different from you.
Śrutakīrti: They've done filming at the bottom of the sea, and they've seen many of the fish at the bottom of the sea, in the deep portions, they make their own light. From their bodies they have light.
Prabhupāda: Hm. (aside:) Don't come very near.
Gurukṛpa: This is called martya-loka, and are there other...
Prabhupāda: Not similar. Every planet is different from the other. Just like in down planets there is no sunlight, so how they can be one? There the light arrangement is different. (break)
Devotee (1): ...He displays His Vṛndāvana only on the earthly-like planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vṛndāvana is there already.
Devotee (1): It's already there?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the aspect... The aspects have been summarized that God is realized in three aspects, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: (SB 1.2.11) impersonal Brahman, localized Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead. Just like the sun. The sunshine is also sun, but you cannot say that you are in sun. Can you say that? But you are sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly, in the Absolute Truth the first realization is Brahman, and the next realization is Paramātmā, and the ultimate realization is Bhagavān. The subject matter is the same. But according to the degree of advancement, the realization is partial. The subject matter is the same. Now you can study the sunshine, but it is not in your power to go to the sun planet and study what is actually sun. But because it is not in your power, it does not mean that sun planet is less. You cannot go there; it is not in your power. You can simply study the sunshine. But that does not mean the sun globe is false or there is no subject matter of study. You cannot go there.
Prabhupāda: Why human being? Even the trees, plants, everyone. We are part and parcel of God.
Dr. Pore: And how is Kṛṣṇa different from us?
Prabhupāda: He is not different. Because we cannot realize Him we are thinking He is different from us. That is māyā. Just like father and son. They are not different, but the son, out of his foolishness, he is thinking father is different from him.
Prabhupāda: So first of all you have to believe yourself that you are part and parcel of God.
Peter: I don't believe that what I experience is necessarily different from what most of the people...
Prabhupāda: What do you believe? Let me know what you believe. That also you do not know?
Peter: Yeah, I don't know what I believe. That's the problem. OK, true. I grew up without a consciousness of God or without even...
Prabhupāda: Without God.
Dr. Judah: God is both one and dual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simultaneously. The same example. The sunshine and the sun one, light and heat. But still, the sun is different from the light. (break) ...them about going to the moon planet?
Dr. Judah: What happened, do you say, to the...
Brahmānanda: To the program of going to the moon.
Dr. Judah: I don't know. But they've stopped it.
Brahmānanda: Why?
Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country.
Prabhupāda: By physiological condition. Just like you are. Your bodily features are different from the man's features. You cannot deny it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and everything is there. How you can deny it?
Woman reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you are reborn every moment. You were like this child sometime. Is this body the same? You think your body is the same when you were a child like that, lying down on the lap of you mother? Is the same body?
Bernard Manischewitz: No, my body is different from a child's body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So different body means you are changing body every moment, imperceptibly. That is the medical science.
Bernard Manischewitz: Can it sometimes be perceptibly? Can a person...?
Prabhupāda: Perceptibly we can understand that the body is being changed so long you are within this body. Because if the person, the soul, is not in the body, the body does not change. Body changes so long the soul is there. And as soon as the soul goes out of the body, there is no more change. Is it not perceptible?
Prabhupāda: That I do not know. What do you mean by cell? But there are many living entities within this body. That we know.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is different from the concept of cell. there are many living entities like germs...
Prabhupāda: So concept of cell is the cell is just like bricks. Matter and spirit, two things are there. Either it must be matter or must be spirit.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: But it's seen that the scientists, they can take some skin from your body and by putting in different solutions can keep that skin itself alive for such a long time. They have taken the heart of a chicken out of the chicken's body and then kept it beating for so many hours even though that heart was away from the main chicken.
Reporter (2): Will this college be quite different from our conventional college which has a great emphasis on athletics, I mean, football teams and...
Prabhupāda: Well, an education... A highly educated man does not require athletics. He requires good brain. Just like high-court judge, he requires a good brain, not a big gigantic body.
Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the significance of the chant which everyone who has been around the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has heard? What is the significance of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Chanting means the holy name of the Lord. The Lord is absolute. His name is not different from Him. So if you chant properly or improperly even, then immediately you be in touch with God. And as you become in touch with God, you become purified. So as you become purified, you know, actually you can see perfectly what is the aim of your life, how the human form of life should be utilized. These thing will be revealed. This is the process of chanting. Try to understand. Chanting the holy name of the Lord means the name of the Lord and the Lord, God, is not different. Just like the sun and the sunshine is not different. Wherever there is sun, or wherever... Sun may be 93,000,000 miles away from us, but by the sunshine we can appreciate sun.
Prabhupāda: Then why you say you are advanced civilization? That is forbidden. Kaṣṭan kāmān na arhati. It is not desirable; it is not good. You are given this body different from this pig because you will live peacefully and happily. Why should you accept kaṣṭan kāman, so hardship? Actually they do not want to work hard. Otherwise why the proprietor, the capitalist, they leave the factory and go to a solitary place? Why does he go?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.
Prabhupāda: But that is your lack of knowledge. I have already explained that, that yogurt is not different from milk. It is milk but still, it is not milk. You have to understand like that. Lord Śiva is not different from Viṣṇu, but he's still not Viṣṇu.
Indian man (7): No, but do we offer the prayer first to Śiva...?
Prabhupāda: That you do. There is no harm. Lord Śiva is also called Mahādeva. Amongst the demigods, he is the chief. So if you worship Lord Śiva... We also worship Śiva. It is not that we disrespect Śiva. We offer our utmost respect to Lord Śiva. But that does not mean that he is the Supreme Lord.
Prabhupāda: I do not say which religion accepts and which religion does not, but unless one understands that he is not this body—he is different from this body—his education is imperfect.
Indian man (2): But do I mean that up till now your excellency were giving the question of transmigration, field of science, and now you are also taking that subject of God in this sphere of science?
Prabhupāda: It is not God. God is far away. First of all I must know what I am. God is long, long distant.
Indian man (2): But what should be the...
Prabhupāda: No, I am going to every country because everywhere the same mistake is going on, bodily concept of life. So I am trying to bring them to the real life and then make their plan. They will be happy. It is not for South Africa. For any Africa, or any country, South America or South India or anywhere. The problem is the same. Everywhere the same conception: "I am South African." "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am this." "I am that." So all these things are on the bodily concept of life. Nobody says, "No, I am not this body. I am different from body." Nobody says. We are simply preaching that "You are not this body. You are different from this..." That is our unique situation. Perhaps throughout the whole world we are trying to preach that "You are not this body. You are different from body." And we have not manufactured this idea.
Prahupada: No..., where is the man? All animals. Man will think. One with knowledge, he will think. And what the animal will think? Anyone who is not a devotee, he is animal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). The big animal is being worshiped by a small animal. That's all. A lion in the forest is worshiped by the small animals. So does it mean the lion is not animal? He is also animal. So similarly, all these leaders, these scientists, these philosophers, they are applauded by the small animals, but they are also animals, big animal, that's all. The test is whether he understands the spirit soul different from the body. If he does not understand he is animal, that's all. Maybe big animal, that is a different thing. Big or small, animal is animal.
Prabhupāda: He is animal. That's all. Sa eva gokharaḥ. That is the verdict of the śāstra. Yasyātmā buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke: (SB 10.84.13) "Anyone who considers this body made of three elements—kapha, pitta, vayu—as self," yasyātm-buddhi kuṇape tri-dhātuke svadhiḥ kalatradiṣu, "and the accidental combination of family members, they are own kinsmen," sva-dhiḥ kala..., bhauma idyadhiḥ, "and the land in which they are born, that is worshipable..." That is nationalism, so-called nationalism. Bhauma idyadhiḥ yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile: "And going to the pilgrimage, taking the water as very important," yat tīrtha buddhiḥ na karhicij janeṣv abhijaneṣu, "and they do not care for the learned, experienced saintly person," sa eva gokharaḥ, "such person is nothing but cows and asses." That's all. If one does not know that he is not this body, he is different from body, so that sort of knowledge is there amongst the dogs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. This understanding, that soul is different from the body, it is meant for the dhīra, not for the adhīra. There are two classes men, dhīra and adhīra. So adhīra
means busy fool, and dhīra means lazy intelligent. But our, this movement is meant both for the dhīra and adhīra. Adhīra. We can make them really human beings. Never mind he is dhīra or adhīra. It is so nice movement. Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra priyau. It is very pleasing both for the dhīras and adhīras. Why not? What we are doing? We invite people, "Please come here. Chant, dance, and take prasāda." So both the dhīras and adhīras, they will be attracted. Dhīrādhīra priya. (break) You cannot make everyone dhīra; that is not possible. There is necessity of adhīra also. That is also... But it should be guided by the dhīra.
Prabhupāda: Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa nāmādi na bhaved grahyam indriyaiḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By these material senses, you cannot understand God. Nāmādi. Even you cannot understand His holy name. Our understanding of God begins by chanting the holy name. So by chanting, chanting, because God is not different from the name, you associate with name..., er, with God, and then you become cleansed. This is the process. God is not different from His holy name. So you chant the holy name of God. That means you associate with God immediately. Just like you associate with the sun immediately, er, sunshine—you become warm—similarly, by associating with God, you become God conscious. This is our program. We are giving chance people to associate with God directly by chanting His holy name. God is omnipotent. His name is as omnipotent as He is. These fools, they do not know that.
Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president.
Prabhupāda: He is here?
Tejās: Yes. I don't know why he didn't come.
Harikeśa: So actually the one thing that makes Kṛṣṇa consciousness different from other religious processes is the practical application of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Full knowledge, perfect knowledge. And other religious systems, they have no knowledge. They say of God something but they do not know what is God. We know what is God and who is God. That is the difference.
Devotee (3): But they have no pure devotee in which to put their faith.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: No, that is possible. That it requires education. That is another... By nature the woman's body is different from man's.
Indian man: Women are subordinate.
Prabhupāda: Not subordinate actually. The occupations are different. It does not mean... That is another mistake. Just like the leg is walking, and the head is directing, so although the occupation is different, both of them are important. We require the head and leg also. If simply head is there, if there is no leg, then who'll walk? This is the understanding, not equal. Everyone must have his separate duties to serve the whole. That is the arrangement.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: The fire is different from the life. The fire is produced.
Prabhupāda: The fire is the same. There is fire. Fire is the same. In the life the fire is not different.
Harikeśa: No, what I mean to say in the example, that the people are there and the fire is also there...
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Harikeśa: So, in a...
Prabhupāda: Exactly the same way. In the factory there is big fire and there are workers also.
Prabhupāda: That man also says like that.
Dr. Patel: Psychedelic drugs. I mean I read about these psychedelic drugs, and then, you see, this artificial trance, no doubt, that is much different from the samādhi that you get. But they, that is why they are tempted to do it. Same with the LSD. That means they find some sort of a pleasure in it. Sādhus get pleasure in samādhi, they get this artificial samādhi by drugs. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Sādhu, they take pleasure in real happiness. Satyanandi. Rāmante yoginam ante satyananda. They do not know what is satya, so how they will take pleasure?
Dr. Patel: They are ātmārāma.
Prabhupāda: Para satya dhīmahi. They do not know what is para satyam.
| Page Title: | Different from... (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 08 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=150, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 150 |