Prabhupāda: When Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was meeting the King, the King inquired that "I have heard that there is a big sannyāsī has come here. What is the details of the sannyāsī? I've heard that you have also become a disciple." So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained, "Yes, He's not ordinary sannyāsī. He's Kṛṣṇa Himself so far I've studied." So Bhaṭṭācārya, he was authority, a great learned man. And the King, when he heard that He is Kṛṣṇa, he also became a devotee. So all expenditure, all everything was supplied by the King and his officers to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So many people... Always four hundred, five hundred men were visiting Him. So whoever would come he would supply food and place. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He began His chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa in the Jagannātha temple.
- 1 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.1 1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.2 1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.3 1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.4 1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.5 1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.6 1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.7 1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.8 1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.9 1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
- 1.10 1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I have already told that religion means searching after God, every religion. The process may be different. The audience may be different. Just like in Christianity there is conception of God, "God created this world." So this is a fact. We also say. But we say in very lucid explanation from the Vedas. We don't stop, simply saying, "God created," but how created, how things developed, these descriptions are there in the Vedic literature. That is the difference. Otherwise there is no difference of opinion. The Christians accept God created this world; the Jewish religion, they also accept God created this world; the Muslims they also accept God created this world; we also accept God created this world. So "God is the supreme; God is great," that is accepted by everyone. But the only difference is that we give details so that modern mind, who are advanced in education and scientific knowledge, they can understand, whereas others, they cannot give in detail. Therefore they are deviating gradually because the modern, advanced, educated persons they want to know how God created this world, and that description is lacking. But we can give that. That is the difference. Otherwise the primary principle, to understand God—God is great; we are small, tiny; we are subordinate; we are maintained by God—this idea is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: That is a huge thing. That we have to see to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that God expanded Himself first of all in Mahā-Viṣṇu, He lied down on the Causal Ocean. And while He was in sleeping mood, from His breathing, innumerable universes came into existence. Then each and every universe, Mahā-Viṣṇu entered. Then again He lied down there, and from Him the first creature, Brahmā, generated. Then Brahmā created other planets. First there was creation of sound. From the sound, the sky came into existence. From the sky, air came into existence. From air, fire came into existence. From fire, water came into existence, and from water, this land developed. In this way, there are very detailed description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we have to take it that way.
Prabhupāda: What about that other building, that storefront down?
Janārdana: A storefront downstairs? I don't know all the details about that. I haven't been looking into...
Prabhupāda: You told me that there is a church for sale on the other side of the park?
Janārdana: Yes, there is. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Where is that church?
Janārdana: It's on Esplanade Street.
Prabhupāda: On the corner?
Janārdana: It's on a corner. It's on the corner of Esplanade and the other street. I don't remember. I can go on my bicycle and take a look there.
Prabhupāda: That's a very big building?
Janārdana: It is a three story house.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Certainly. That is the first condition to accept one as my disciple, because there are some restriction. I don't allow illicit sex life. I don't allow intoxication. I don't allow meat-eating and gambling. So I build up their character. So naturally my followers are very restricted. (chuckles)
Interviewer: Well, now, I'd like to go over in some greater detail what the disciples may and may not do. I think that's where... I just wanted to get some of the factual background before we went into that. Now, your, the sexual abstinence does not include marriage, I gather.
Prabhupāda: No. Marriage allowed.
Interviewer: Marriage is allowed.
Prabhupāda: I say, "illicit sex." Without marriage, sex relation is forbidden.
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata Purāṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: Has the detailed analysis of what goes on within the Kali-yuga?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes. I'll read you sometimes.
Allen Ginsberg: There are translations of that. There are some translations of that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Twelfth Canto, the Kali-yuga descriptions are there.
Allen Ginsberg: Twelfth Canto.
Prabhupāda: Twelfth Canto. And you will find that all the descriptions are coming to be true. Just like there is one statement, svīkaram eva udvahe: "Marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Now that is being done. And lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam: "People will think that he has become very beautiful by keeping bunch of hairs." That is coming true. These are written there. All things are there in Bhāgavata history.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even just to... Maybe that plate we'll just give to a few people nearby.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...first speak in detail about Ṭhākura Haridāsa's disappearance. So tell me maybe how you want it to be performed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ṭhākura Haridāsa was living in a cottage which was... Just like I am living here, and the garage site a little far off, Haridāsa was living a little distance. So when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the sea for taking bath, He every day, every morning He used to go to Haridāsa Ṭhākura and taking his informa..., "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" Because Haridāsa was Mohammedan by birth, so out of his meekness he did not go to the temple. But in those... Especially in those days they were very strict. They do not allow anyone except Hindus to enter the temple. Nowadays, of course, there is law. If somebody is, actually has come to the Hindu way of life, he's allowed.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say if you are serious student, then you study Sanskrit, original.
John Lennon: Study Sanskrit? Oh, now you're talking.
George Harrison: But Vivekananda said that books and rituals and dogmas and temples are secondary details, anyway. He said they're not the most important thing, anyway. You don't have to read the book in order to have the perception.
Prabhupāda: Then why Vivekananda wrote so many books? (laughter)
George Harrison: Well, it's the same as in the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He said there is no use of books. Then why he wrote so many books?
George Harrison: But in Hrishikesh, when we meditated for a long time, one man got tired of meditation, and he thought... He made the excuse to read the Gītā so he could come out of meditation, and he opened the Gītā and it said, "Don't read books. Meditate."
Prabhupāda: Who says?
George Harrison: The Gītā said it.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the..., I mean to say, a rough scheme, rough estimation. Now, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness can solve this problem, that is a detailed thing. But this is a fact. It is not the question of Eastern-Western. It is the problem of all living entities.
Guest (1): Yes, living entities. Human, actually we have.
Prabhupāda: Not even human life, even animal life. There are 8,400,000s of different kinds of bodies. So this is a problem for everyone. Now in other species of life than the human form, they cannot solve. They have no power. But a human being can solve.
Guest (1): Yes, they have got understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (1): What do you mean by that?
Prabhupāda: That is a detailed question, "How it can be?"
Guest (1): No, but are we satisfied with the past...
Prabhupāda: You will be never satisfied without Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Prohibitive. No illicit sex life, no meat-eating, meat or fish or eggs, no, and no gambling, and no intoxication, including cigarette, tea, coffee. These also we take as intoxicants. So these four principle one has to obey, and let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And by this process only, you'll find, how these boys and girls are improving quickly. Process is very simple. Besides that, we have got books, volumes of books, just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. I have given them. Throughout all these years I have written so many books. And they have got ample stock for reading, the whole life. We have got four hundred pages', big, big books, about one dozen books: Kṛṣṇa in two parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in six parts, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, one part, Nectar of Devotion, one part. In this way I am... And these are... We are publishing every month one chapter, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, with this detailed information, giving a heading like this, "The First Step in God Realization." Here is also. The heading is: "Puruṣa-śukta Continued." Puruṣa-śukta is a Vedic stotram. So we are trying to push this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like in your country there is Lenin consciousness, similarly, it is also a different type of consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is also historical personality as much as Lenin is also historical personality. So His philosophy... Just like you are trying to understand his philosophy, we are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. In this way this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on.
Prabhupāda: That's the answer. Therefore Ramakrishna Mission is misguiding.
Mohsin Hassan: There is another question many people like to know about. They visit the temples in Chicago and many temples all over the United States. They are fascinated in the ritual things, the ara..., during the offering pūjā to the Deities and especially this initiation service. I would like to record the meaning of these ritual things because it's very important to explain in great detail about it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is, this is essential for advancing in spiritual consciousness. Just like kindergarten system, the children are given some wooden, I mean, some plans to form some A, B and C like that, (indistinct). So this not like, exactly like the (indistinct) system. This system is introduced by great ācāryas, authorities. So we have to follow. In the beginning we have no love for Kṛṣṇa, so this process will help how to invoke his love for Kṛṣṇa. This is standard process.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Pratyatoṣa: It's a withdrawal slip. That's just... That's Ātreya Ṛṣi..., and Ātreya Ṛṣi can take care of the details of getting the money out of the account to do whatever you want with it.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) the amount, you can charge my account (indistinct).
Pratyatoṣa: Originally we were planning on...
Prabhupāda: That's all, it is all right.
Devotee (1): This is a presentation from Mahāpuruṣa. It's a dollar and brāhmaṇa's thread. It's a humble presentation.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee (1): You're not going to be working this immediately? I want to get...
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you want to join, join it.
Dr. Weir: That merely means, you might say, if you're going to be very thorough and precise, that the, it could be explained in greater detail, but it's easier to do it with a master. But you can go to a foreign language by reading a book, although it's much easier if you're...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here is the medicine, diabetic. So I have accepted this medicine through a bona fide doctor. Although it is meant for diabetes, I have not accepted this medicine, neither it is advised that this medicine should be accepted by a bona fide physician. So I cannot see properly whether it is good for me. But when the physician, qualified physician, says, "Yes, it is bona fide. You can use it in this way." That is right.
Prabhupāda: That explanation is there. Why you are asking me? That is... I do not remember exactly what is the features of Vaibhava. That is there. But the vaibhava, prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, there are detailed description of Kṛṣṇa's expansions. They are described there. You can refer to. Prabhāvā, vaibhava, vilāsa, they are expansions of Kṛṣṇa's different avatāra, incarnation, and part, part of incarnation. So it is a huge list, and it's not always possible to remember them in detail. Better refer to the book. Is that all right?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: The teacher will remember all the work of the dictionary. (laughs) You can refer to the dictionary. (laughter) (end)
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct) The details were discussed already. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: Divine Grace, please allow that we are, we getting to the businesslike (laughter) conversation but...
Prabhupāda: One thing I shall request you, that our missionary activities, we are not exactly businessmen. You see? Our only idea is these books are published for missionary activities. So exactly we are not business power. So I will request your chairman that even sometimes you find something, discrepancies, you don't mind it, because we are not strictly businessmen. Yes. But we are very sincere. We shall reciprocate very sincerely. But sometimes we are not strictly like businessmen.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes you can bring car.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, that is the law, I think.
Sumati Morarjee: So you can find out all this from India office. Yes.
Devotee: Yeah, Gurudāsa can do that.
Sumati Morarjee: And then will give you in Indian High Commission all details.
Prabhupāda: Another, another is that we get some incense imported from Hong Kong.
Sumati Morarjee: I know. So what is that incense?
Devotee: Punks, punks.
Devotee: Just a rink.
Sumati Morarjee: Can you show me.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That you... And soon as you issue letter, that will come. It is not my (indistinct) And she will carry. Make arrangement with government so that next time when I go to India, I sit on the car. That's all.
Devotee: And Gurudasa... Actually we better do it soon, because it takes two or three months.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so you can do.
Devotee: We can talk about the details later.
Prabhupāda: That I am immigrant here; I've stayed since 1965. The embassy, everyone, knows. So I can take my cars, that there is a law. So in this way take permission from the government and you get the car and I go and drive it. That's all.
Devotee: You'll take this car with you, Prabhupāda, wherever you go?
Devotee: You will take this car with you wherever you go?
Prabhupāda: As far as possible. People will see, "The spiritual master of USA is going there."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
David Wynne: But the greatest scientists have..., are the humblest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge, when one becomes humbler: "Oh, God is so great." That is real scientist. I think Professor Einstein, he admitted.
Mukunda: Yes, he said that "I want to know how God created the universe. Everything else is details."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means he's still thinking, "My knowledge is imperfect because I do not know about God." That is real scientist.
Śyāmasundara: Just studying one small part of God's creation...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Śyāmasundara: ...is, is...
Prabhupāda: You see how nicely God has created this flower. How nice artist he is, how he has put the color exactly to the same point. So there is no hand? This is foolishness. It is going on. There is hand of God, but how His hand is working we do not know. That is explained in the Vedas: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). He has got so subtle power that it is working, but we are seeing that it is automatically being done. But He's working. He's working. Just like we work.
Prabhupāda: And if you want to know our socialistic idea, I can give you.
Reporter: Yeah. Because I thought you know, it was just an idea of your... But I shall never think it was so, so much clear.
Yogeśvara: He never thought that our program was quite so detailed.
Prabhupāda: It is most scientific program.
Bhagavān: We have also economic position.
Prabhupāda: Everything, I have explained. Now our socialist idea is: God is the father of all living beings. And whatever there is on the surface of the globe, on the sea, on the sky, everything belongs to God. And all the sons of God has equal right to enjoy it. But nobody... (aside:) He is finished? But nobody is allowed to take more than he requires. If one takes more than he requires, he's to be punished. This is our socialist idea. As we think all living entities sons of God, therefore even a lizard in my room should not starve.
Prabhupāda: So God could not... Kṛṣṇa says: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). That God can, without dying Himself, He can immediately and, I mean to say, vanquish all sinful action. Why He should be killed for that purpose? Just like the Pūtanā gave Kṛṣṇa poison. But Pūtanā was killed. And Kṛṣṇa was never ki... Kṛṣṇa cannot be killed by poison. Even Kṛṣṇa's devotees are not killed by poison. Prahlāda Mahārāja. If we discuss in detail, we create animosities. Therefore we do not discuss because Christian religion is followed by large number. We do not wish to make... We say yes. He says: "Son of God." We accept it. That's all. To accept a person God, that requires great evidences from śāstra. Especially. And when he's present, He will prove the statement of the śāstra. Then we accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu, God. There are evidences... (break) You see. We don't allow anybody to pass on as God because we are presenting real God. We must make process. The real process is to kill him. But that much power we haven't got. We cannot do that. Otherwise, we would have done so. Nobody should be allowed to claim as God. And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment.
Yaśomatīnandana: Well, there are different manifestations of God. Just like we don't know the sun planet in it's full details. We just know...
Prabhupāda: No, the sun, here it is not fully risen. But there is some place-sun is now full-fledged. But because you are here, you cannot say, "The sun cannot be full fledged." But that's a fact. Now in India, not India, somewhere else, the sun is now twelve o'clock, is it not?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because time difference. But they are seeing, "Oh, sun is so full-fledged, so shining." You are not seeing. That is your inefficiency.
Karandhara: But they are able to experience that by their traveling.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so if you travel, you will also experience. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Then you'll also experience. We don't say that you are unable to, but if you adopt the process you'll also know.
Prabhupāda: So because you are not God conscious you are doing all this nonsense. You do not know who is father. Therefore you cut throat, your brother. (break) ...that those who are eating vegetables, they are also killing. That's a fact. But God says that "You can eat this." God says... By nature... Just like the animal. They will eat these leaves, the grass. Nature. But they will not eat meat. Tena tyaktena. Whatever God dictates, "Now you eat this," He is eating. But you give him meat. No, he will not take it. So whatever you are allotted, you should eat. That is God's law, that after all, one has to eat. So what you will eat? Everything is living. Therefore allotted. You are allotted, "These things is allotted for you. You eat." We God conscious people therefore eat... Without going into the details, we eat anything what God eats. That's all. There is no question of discriminating what we shall eat. We eat prasādam. That's all. So we are safe.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, she is very nice, good artist. Give her engagement like this.
Prajāpati: Maybe you could explain us a little more detail of the...
Prabhupāda: No, with very much detail it will be cumbrous. You... Symbolic representation.
Prajāpati: Those three figures in the center?
Prajāpati: One is a devotee, one is a...
Prabhupāda: No, everyone is devotee.
Prajāpati: Yes, they are all three devotees.
Prabhupāda: But they're engaged in three departments.
Prabhupāda: This is a form for less intelligent. Those who are thinking "The God must be horizontal form. God, how He can be a human-like form?" God is great, so he is thinking of greatness of God. Somebody thinks that, according to his own idea. Greatness means they have got idea, "The sky is the greatest." So God must be of the form like sky. Yes. So what is the...?
Girirāja: (reads synonyms) "Translation: O lotus-eyed one, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity, as realized through Your inexhaustible glories." (reads next synonyms) "O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see here before me Your actual position, yet I wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation."
Prabhupāda: Entered. So just like it is to be understood. He's very intelligent. Now, I am... As soul, my magnitude is described. What is that? Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Keśa agra, the tip of the hair, divide into hundred parts. And again take that one part and again divide into hundred parts. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Now, it is simply, it is to be imagined. Kalpitasya. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ. That is the magnitude of the jīva. Now, that magnitude of jīva has entered in this body or in the elephant's body. Now, which is important, the body is important or that small particle is important?
Dr. Patel: Small particle is important.
Prabhupāda: Now, one question may be raised, that after reading all the details of Bhagavad-gītā, if somebody said, "There was no Kṛṣṇa," what kind of inter...
Dr. Patel: He is a fool.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) So see. And these fools and rascals are going on as big men. You see? What kind of Bhagavad-gītā he has read, that he says that "There was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no Battlefield of Kurukṣetra"? And that is our challenge, "Why do you say like that?"
Mr. Sar: Why do they say like that?
Indian man (2): They are ignorant people.
Dr. Patel: They are śūṣka Vedāntists.
Prabhupāda: No. They are rascals, simply rascals, not śūṣka Vedāntists. Vedāntist is... His father is also not Vedāntist. They do not know what is Vedānta. Simply rascals. That is our propaganda, that why you accept these rascals as leader?
Indian man (2): Kṛṣṇa is described in the Upaniṣads.
Prabhupāda: So I was giving lectures. They have churches. That means God conscious persons there. I never criticized church, mosque, never. Because whatever it may be, at least there is God consciousness. So they're good. In details... But when they disobey... I criticize only these rascals, disobey the commandments. Otherwise, we have no... We don't criticize.
Yogeśvara: We're not sectarian.
Yogeśvara: We're not sectarian.
Prabhupāda: Why? God is one. Why we shall be sectarian? According to his circumstances, he is doing. And that prayer is also bhakti, offering prayer. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanaṁ vandanam (SB 7.5.23). This vandana is prayer. So that is bhakti, one of the items of bhakti.
Prabhupāda: But that idea is wrong.
Lady (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: She was open to receive a more detailed explanation of the process.
Prabhupāda: First of all, let us see what are the symptoms of having soul.
Prabhupāda: See, you can come here. Let her come.
Yogeśvara: Ask the lady to have a better seat.
Pṛthu Putra: See, there she has a seat.
Prabhupāda: Never mind, we can sit down here. Bring that chair.
Prabhupāda: And the bulls are being killed. Why they should be killed? Engage them in tilling the field. They will have occupation. And the man also will have occupation. There is immense land. So there will be no question of unemployment. And the machine, it works hundreds of men's labor and hundreds of men become unemployed. So unemployed means devil's workshop.
Dr. Muncing: I think that the situation which would apply to the Asian area, whilst I don't know it in complete detail, it's my impression that we have used very nearly all of the Australian area that is suitable for tilling the soil and growing food grains. There are vast areas of Australia that have very little rain, or if they have rain it comes intermittently. And it's my impression that the Australian area... The area that's used for growing grains in Australia couldn't be vastly increased. It couldn't be doubled, for instance. On the other hand I accept that it might well be possible to double the amount that comes off the present area. And of course, that's something that C.S.R.O. is working towards.
Dr. Harrap: I think you could add to that, Roy, that an attempt to grow grain in large areas of Australia would significantly damage the ecology, and from reading your writings, I suspect that this would be completely unacceptable to your way of thinking, that one doesn't disturb the natural life cycles of innumerable creatures in order to grow more grain because the terrain is just not suited to the grain growing.
Prabhupāda: The land is not suitable?
Madhudviṣa: Well, in Australia there is vast areas which cannot be cultivated, like deserts and semi-deserts.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh. That is somewhere in India still. But here they keep cows not for protection, for eating. (break) ...chemical. Life is already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, what they are saying is this, that the..., when they examine this body in the minute details—they call the molecular levels—they find only molecules. They don't see anything. For example, when they analyze the hand, they saw it—this is proteins, protein molecules, some fats, some carbohydrates, and they don't see anything else except molecules. And at the same time, when they study—they are called the biochemical pathways in the living cells—they find only these DNA molecules and the different molecules that carry out different activities. That is why they say that there is..., what we call life is just nothing but arrangement of these molecules in different ways. So that's why they say that "Yes, life started actually from these molecules."
Prabhupāda: So why they cannot produce life from the molecules?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'd say that when science started or knowledge started, it takes some time. It cannot come all in a sudden.
Prabhupāda: So what is this knowledge? The molecules are already there.
Prabhupāda: No, the university?
Doug: In the university? I haven't been with them in a year and a half, but they recently bought a college, and they have part of a college in Santa Barbara, the University of California there. So they're pretty well established educationally. But it's losing its potency actually. I think it's actually reached its peak and left, because when I was with Maharishi also I noticed that it seemed that a lot of his potency seemed to diminish, his charisma, over the years. Seemed to me he'd get more and more depressed if people weren't actually reaching the states that he was talking of. It didn't seem like he was satisfied with the advancement people were making. And certainly he wasn't answering the questions, because all that time I was asking him "What is the highest truth." And when he talked to God I would say, "Who is God?" And we'd ask him, "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" and "What about this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement?" And it was word jugglery. He'd kind of evade our questions and satisfy our elan, but... those questions kept coming up. Somehow he kept us from going into too much detail about it. But eventually... I didn't see him for a few days. This was when I was in the mountains with him, some other people. And we were making up these curriculums for this college program. And he was doing some transcriptions on the Brahma-sūtras, and he came out, and he was in a very solemn mood, and he said... We asked him what he had realized, what truths he had realized from the Brahma-sutras. And he said, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of consciousness." So I left shortly after that. I feel that I could have been chanting all those years, making some progress.
Prabhupāda: What is his age?
Doug: What is my age?
Prabhupāda: No, his age.
Doug: His age? He's sixty-eight.
Prabhupāda: Old man.
Prabhupāda: I am giving you the appointment. Do it.
Haṁsadūta: We can consult with him later.
Jayatīrtha: So we'll discuss it and try to find out the details...
Atreya Ṛṣi: Put it in the agenda, this membership plan, immediately.
Jayatīrtha: ...later on
Prabhupāda: These complaints are not at all good. They have become very serious. Complaint must be stopped. Why they are...? Now print cheap edition here and give them books. Sell also.
Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse of being cheating.
Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse us of cheating them.
Prabhupāda: It is not good at all. Why there is complaint?
Jagadīśa: So make the agenda.
Prabhupāda: No, they can give.(?)
Jagadīśa: That's part of the proposal. Why not discuss in relationship to the proposal.
Jayatīrtha: Right. We have the whole proposal. Everyone has a copy, I think. So we can discuss that. The main point, I'm just saying now, is to read through the agenda and see if Prabhupāda approves that we're talking about these things, and then..., because these things are so detailed, and we have some proposals in writing. We can discuss them more. Anyway, so one proposal is Gurukula finance. Another proposal is Brahmānanda's made some proposals about Africa, specifically manpower to be sent to Africa. Another proposal... another thing is to discuss the BBT, BBT loans, moving of the Press, several points about BBT, lowering of the prices, these things...
Prabhupāda: So what is the advantage of moving the Press?
Jayatīrtha: That Ramesvara should be here to say.
Prabhupāda: Call (?) Ramesvara. If you be..., all GBC agrees, then you do that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The answer to his point is that just as there's a president of the United States, so when someone is talking about the president, according to how intimate that person is, you discuss different subject matters. For example, if the person is just a common person, a regular person, you may discuss about the president's powers in the government. But when you meet someone who actually is intimately connected with the president, then you describe the president's family, how the president's family is doing, what is the president doing in his time of relaxation, etc. So similarly, Jesus was speaking to persons who were not very intimate with God. They were not so much spiritually advanced. Therefore, for those persons, simply the power and glory of God is mentioned in the Bible. But Kṛṣṇa, the description of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavatam, is meant for the pure devotees. And for them the very detailed, intimate description of Kṛṣṇa is given there.
Prajāpati: A very major thing happenned to the Christian tradition in about 400 A.D. Up until that time, as best our records are, Christianity was very much like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very much like our movement. But at that time it became the official religion of the Roman Empire under Constantine, and it took on many of the paraphernalia of the old Roman demigod worship, and at that time it became a whole...
Prabhupāda: Just to make it favorable for your government, for the government.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning don't talk of these details, just try to convince about the philosophy. What is the nature of God? What is your nature? How we are related, like that.
Paramahaṁsa: By details do you mean the rules and regulations?
Prabhupāda: No, that is not in the beginning. In the beginning one must know that he is not this body. He is spirit soul. Don't bring in controversy, but try to convince that you are not this body. Then, gradually. That is the mode of teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Paramahaṁsa: As they become more interested they ask automatically how they can make advancement.
Prabhupāda: If they understand that "I am spirit soul" then he'll advance. Then you can say. The chanting is required.
Prabhupāda: There are details. There are so many things. The total is rascaldom and foolishness. Godlessness means rascaldom and foolishness.
Journalist: Ras...? Ras...?
Prabhupāda: Rascal. How can I say, "There is no God"? Is it very reasonable? Just like you have got a father, and your father has got father, his father has got father... Go on. You come to the supreme father, the original father. There must be one original father. That is God. How can I deny God? Can you deny?
Journalist: No, I don't deny.
Prabhupāda: Personally you may not. But the atheists, they say "There is no God." The so-called scientists, atheists, they say, "There is no God." So how can it be? If you say "There is no father," how it is possible? Without father, how you exist? So God is accepted the supreme father, the original father. So how the atheists can deny the existence of God? Is that very good argument, to deny the original father?
Prabhupāda: What is that complex answer? Somebody has created, that's all.
Śrutakīrti: They want to know how he created it.
Prabhupāda: How he created, that is another thing. But you have not created. Somebody else has created. First of all accept this. Then we shall go into the detail.
Gurukṛpa: Actually they are thinking that they are the supreme brain themselves.
Prabhupāda: Then that's all right. How you are supreme? You cannot create like that. How you are supreme? Simply by claiming "I am supreme"?
Gurukṛpa: Well, if they discover a theory, then they think that that makes them supreme.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Theory you may discover, but you have not created. That's a fact. That's a fact.
Bali-mardana: They refuse to accept God because they can neither prove nor disprove.
Prabhupāda: But no, no. God you prove or disprove, but first you have to accept that you have not created.
Prabhupāda: How is that you are thinking that you have created or somebody... You have not created this. Somebody else. Now who is that somebody else, that we shall find out. But you have not created. You accept it.
Prabhupāda: Who are they? Very important men?
Revatīnandana: Well, it just said... The magazine was not terribly detailed. It just said that many scientists involved in this are claiming that within twenty-thirty years they will reverse the aging processes. I think it is a bogus claim actually. They dream all kinds of things like that.
Satsvarūpa: They say when a person is born, there is a kind of clock inside them that runs so long. If they can change that clock, then they'll make it stretch out.
Prabhupāda: Another foolishness.
Bahulāśva: Most of these big philosophers don't ever think of that question, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Bahulāśva: These big philosophers never think of that question.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no answer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So in the morning.
Dr. Judah: Yes, fine.
Prabhupāda: So we can talk in details.
Bahulāśva: We showed Dr. Judah the press and all the books, how they were published. He was very impressed.
Dr. Judah: Yes. You seem to... You have, it would seem, the very latest knowledge of technology. They're doing these things by means of computers, you know, and all of the very highest technology. In fact, technology that I haven't seen in many publishing companies, and I have looked at a lot of publishing companies. And this is the most advanced technology I have ever seen in publishing. (laughter) It's amazing really.
Devotee: Beware, it'll do you in. (laughter) No, we can use it for Kṛṣṇa. That is the important thing, as long as we're using it for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: This technology is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, material energy. That is Kṛṣṇa's energy. And when the material energy is utilized for Kṛṣṇa's energy... I will take there. You can distribute. So, I can take your leave now? I have to... (break) (end)
Prabhupāda: The answer is... Then we come to the details. So you say, "Christian," and I find to find out a Christian. I find difficulty to find out one Christian. I must frankly say, because the so-called Christians, they do not abide by the Bible's order that in the Christian's Bible it is said, "Thou shall not kill." and where is a Christian who does not kill? So this can be effective only persons who are practicing religion. So these persons, they are trained to practice. So their chanting of the holy name of God and others' are different. (break) It is not simply a rubber stamp position. It must be practiced, realized. This chanting of holy name by our men who are trained up and the same chanting by others will be different. Of course, if you... (break) ...your Hindu principle. That is secular state, not to remain callous: "Whatever you like you can do. We have no concern to see." That is not government's duty.
Prabhupāda: That's all. He became a victim of the western people. Because the Oxford University was paying him very nicely, he became a servant of the western thought. (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...in the evolutionary cycle, the transmigration of the soul, we were inquiring whether there's any specific details in the Vedas about the step by step transmigration of the spirit, of the soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. From the aquatics to the plants, and then insect, then bird, then beast, then human being.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then it's the same with the Darwin's Theory.
Prabhupāda: Darwin has taken from here, and he has tried to explain in a hodgepodge way so that he may get the credit, that's all.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: The plants have more consciousness, manifest consciousness, than aquatics?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: That plants and grass, they are more conscious than aquatics.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also mentioned in the Bhāgavata, about different animals, how they are conscious, developed.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to say.
Faill: Yes. Unless you studied it in detail.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless I study, it is very difficult to say because there are so many bluffers, so many.
Faill: Just doing it for money.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. It is going on like that. They have no standard method. We are presenting the standard method. This is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. As it is, without any malinterpretation, we are presenting as it is. This is standard.
Indian man: On a rainy day is it possible to go swimming? On a rainy day... Some people say you mustn't go near water on a rainy day.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am not speaking in detail. But by practical experience we can see that these men are not as efficient as the small fish. That is my point. They have advanced in civilization, so many scientists' brain, but they are not enough intelligent more than the fish. That is my point. Am I right or wrong?
Devotee (4): Right. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: If swimming is enjoyable, then let them swim always. Why they cannot?
Indian man: Actually, I go swimming...
Prabhupāda: And the fishes are swimming always. So who is more intelligent, the fish or the man?
Indian man: Well, summertime I go swimming always, you know.
Prabhupāda: Don't speak about yourself. I am speaking generally. You may be very expert, but how long you will swim? How long you can swim?
Indian man: Five minutes. Ten minutes.
Prabhupāda: They do not belong to the Hindu. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out, veda-vāda-ratā pārtha nānyad astīti vādinaḥ.
Prof. Olivier: I have read through the Gītā, of course, but you see... And I have thereafter referred to certain paragraphs. But it is a book of profound depth, and unless you spend a lot of time going into details, much of it gets lost.
Prabhupāda: You have got this? Veda-vāda-ratāḥ? Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, here it is.
- yām imāṁ puṣpitāṁ vācaṁ
- pravadanty avipaścitaḥ
- veda-vāda-ratāḥ pārtha
- nānyad astīti vādinaḥ
- kamātmānaḥ svarga-parā
- kriyā-viśeṣa bahulāṁ
- bhogaiśvarya-gatiṁ prati
"Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this."
Prof. Olivier: Yeah. It is a scholar from Vienna that we have got to teach this course for us. But what he teaches and what kind of basic philosophy, I wouldn't know. There are about thirty or forty students. So in essence, they ought to start by making at least a detailed study, as I see it, of the Bhagavad-gītā as a basis for their whole philosophy.
Prabhupāda: So why not appoint somebody to teach Bhagavad-gītā As It Is? That is essential. And we have got step by step, so many books, fifty books, simply to understand God.
Prof. Olivier: Uh huh. You mean from the beginning right through the...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You can make them pass the entrance examination, the graduate examination, the postgraduate examination by studying these books.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who accepts God, he is bhāgavata.
Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.
Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...
Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...
Dr. Patel: He must have gone in a trance.
Prabhupāda: He lived by trance.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If they cannot reach sun... They are trying to go above the sun. (Someone enters) Bosen. Jaya. (Bengali) (break) It is giving quotation from Vedas. How to act on Vedic principle, that is called smṛti. Sometimes the original law is explained by one lawyer in detail. So that detailed explanation is like smṛti, and the original law is śruti. In that we have to bathe. Smṛti means which is explaining śruti to understand easily.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we should never think that smṛti is an interpretation.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not inter... It is explanation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like sometimes the smārtas, they argue that if you quote smṛti, it is not as good as śruti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But smṛti... Just like the Māyāvādīs. They do not accept because their interpretation of Veda is different.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We'll find something or another to absorb our time with besides Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, you should always remember that either gṛhastha or brahmacārī or sannyāsī, nobody can strictly follow all the rules and regulations of them. In the Kali-yuga it is not possible. So if I find simply fault with you, and if you find fault with me, then it will be factional, and our real business will be hampered. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that hari-nāma, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, should be very rigidly performed, which is common for everyone: gṛhastha, vānaprastha or sannyāsī. They should always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then everything will be adjusted. Otherwise it is impossible to advance. We shall be complicated with the details only. This is called niyamāgrahaḥ. I think I have explained.
Prabhupāda: I have told him that "Whatever you want to give us, give us. If you cannot give us, give us in lease. You remain your proprietor, but give us in lease, and we develop it." But he has never replied that. What does he want to do?
Jayapatākā: Before he finalized once, he said he wanted to speak to you once more. But never was the thing actually discussed in detail with Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: It was discussed. And he agreed, "Yes," but his man has different idea. So if you think that he's serious, we can go today sometime. How long it takes by car?
Jayapatākā: It takes about an hour.
Jayapatākā: But actually it's on the route to Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So we can.... But that will be very hastily. That.... The road is all right?
Prabhupāda: One should practice to open this very quickly.
- athavā bahunaitena
- kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
- viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
- ekāṁśena sthito jagat
- (BG 10.42)
"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe."
Prabhupāda: Read it carefully. As the small soul has entered.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). This is also a small universe. The same elements are working, but the soul is the prime factor. Similarly, this gigantic body. Athavā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena.... Viṣṭabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam. "The kṛtsnam, the total material energy, millions of universes like that, that is being maintained by Me because I have entered in it in My fragmental portion." Same principle.
Prabhupāda: There are different groups. I know that. But I do not go in detail to understand them. But our..., we have got a crucial test. That anyone who is..., does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is put into four different types of categories as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. One category is that he is sinful. Another category is that he is rascal. Another category is that he's lowest of the mankind. Another category is that his so-called knowledge is taken away by illusory energy. So this is our test. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Anyone who is not talking about God, he is either of these group: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, and knowledge taken away by illusion. This is our conclusion, and that's a fact. Because a person who does not know about God, what he is? He is animal. The animal has no knowledge about God. But a human being, if he poses himself to be very learned, then he must have knowledge about God, otherwise what is his knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Of course, we do not go into the details of this. My question is that why Sunday first and Monday second? Nobody can apli..., replies.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda once also argued that the dust, the dirt that they brought back, it did not reflect any light, but the moon is always reflecting light. So it was a different substance than what must be on the moon surface.
Prabhupāda: Now, according to our Vedic scripture, Moon is one of the heavenly planets.
Reporter: Are there any other Vedic scriptures that you believe speak to a situation that is greatly misunderstood today besides this?
Prabhupāda: No. Vedic understanding means there is no different Vedic version.
Hari-śauri: The thing is that they're going around and they're soliciting for people to come and join their group, and then immediately they come, they immediately take them into all the details of the gopīs with Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then let them.... Unless they follow the regulative principles, there is no place for that in the temple. Let them go out.
Rāmeśvara: They are following.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is their fault. They want to utilize the love affairs of Kṛṣṇa and gopīs for their debauchery. That is a support for their debauchery. That is sahajiyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the meaning of sahajiyā.
Prabhupāda: You can answer all these questions.
Jayādvaita: I can.... Why Śrīla Prabhupāda is coming, he's visiting different centers around the world. I can fill you in on most of the details about the society and dates and times and so on. You might prefer to ask Śrīla Prabhupāda a little more about the philosophy of our movement.
Kathy Kerr: Ah. Very well. Okay, I understand that this is an extension of Hindu religion. Is that not correct? No, it's not. Does it have any basic tenets of the Hindu religion?
Prabhupāda: There is no such word as Hindu religion. You do not know. There is no such word as Hindu religion, at least in the Vedas. The religion is translated into Sanskrit as "characteristic." Religion is not a kind of faith. Just like chemical composition. Sugar is sweet—that is religion. Sugar must be sweet. Sugar cannot be pungent. Or chili must be pungent. If chili is sweet, we reject it, and sugar is pungent, you reject it. Similarly, our Vedic system is to train the human being to the ultimate goal of his life. That system is called varṇāśrama-dharma, gradually training the person how to become perfect human being and understand the goal of his life. That is our activity. It is not meant for any particular sect or particular nation. No. It is meant for the whole human society, how to make them perfect in the goal of his life.
Prabhupāda: Therefore twenty-two. I am expecting sixty volumes. Sixty volumes of four hundred pages. The biggest canto is the Tenth Canto. I've already published the Tenth Canto, summarized: Kṛṣṇa. But in detail, it will take at least twenty volumes.
Indian man: It's almost as big as the rest of the book.
Indian man: Tenth is almost as big as the rest of the book.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are ninety chapters. Ninety chapters. All other cantos, at most thirty chapters. But Tenth Canto is ninety chapters. That is Kṛṣṇa's face, Kṛṣṇa's beautiful face. Everyone is attracted by the smiling face of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.
Prabhupāda: Whose brain is there.
Hari-śauri: Maybe they should explain that in a little more detail, that in that higher order, that he put in the slide, there was one box that said "higher-order laws," so then they have to explain that if there's laws then there's lawmaker, that means higher intelligence, so that means a higher personality.
Prabhupāda: That is explained. Vāsudeva is higher. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The difficulty is that they compare Vāsudeva to themselves. They think that "I am so unintelligent and tiny, I can't even create anything, but how can one person create all of these things, down to the tiniest atom?" Such an extraordinary...
Prabhupāda: Therefore He is God. He's not dog like you, barking only and doing nothing. (Prabhupāda knocks on table or flooring) What is this stone?
Hari-śauri: Marble. It's a type of Italian marble, I think. They call it terrazzo. Something like that.
Rūpānuga: Well, one thing, the biologists haven't even really counted up many so-called species themselves. So why should we get into such..., worry about the details? They don't have the detail themselves.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, not details, but we wanted to show that there is such thing as the three modes of nature, they are working, not just by chemical combination these things are produced. We want to say that the three modes are there. Because of the working of the...
Prabhupāda: No, the three modes induces chemical composition. Then RN, DNA (laughs)...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But this is very unique in science itself. It's a very novel concept just from scientific level.
Devotee: The scientists have a desire to explain things. They like to see that you can explain so many different things. Perhaps it doesn't have any real utility to explain,
Prabhupāda: So, as far as possible, you can give explanation from Bhāgavatam. Otherwise, how you can...
Devotee: So by giving these examples then they might think this has very good explanatory power, and they will therefore accept it, they will (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: So the general division in the higher planetary system is the devatās, beginning from sun, moon and other planetary systems, they are in modes of goodness prominent. Less, below that, bhūr bhuvaḥ, they are passionate, and below that, they are ignorant.
Prabhupāda: That is day. Such devastation takes place during Brahmā's day. Fourteen Manus.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we know that in detail, Śrīla Prabhupāda? What type of species are extinct? Not all the species extinct. As it is during Brahmā's day, that partial annihilation, devastation, now some species are extinct?
Prabhupāda: No species extinct. What you are reading? This is garbage.(?)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The physical forms.
Prabhupāda: No, nothing is extinct. Everything is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: At that point, they are going to come up with the point that "How about dinosaurs?" They are going to ask like that.
Prabhupāda: That is imagination, where is dinosaur finding.
Prabhupāda: How many?
Yadubara: I took about... Well, one boy is doing it for free of charge, he's producing ten of them just to get idea. If we want more, we can get more. I took about twenty-five.
Prabhupāda: All detailed?
Yadubara: Some detail, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. Yes, you can close. (door closes) One set to Gargamuni and one set to Saurabha and one set for me, three sets. And if you like, you can keep one set for you. The negative will be with you. What is the height altogether?
Yadubara: Actually, I don't know, I didn't get that. I can get that information also.
Prabhupāda: So, guessing?
Yadubara: Oh, I don't know, two hundred fifty feet? Something like that. Three hundred?
Rūpānuga: That's too big, three hundred. The Washington monument is five hundred fifty feet.
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right.
Prabhupāda: Life and matter, is, we already explained very clearly. There is no symptom of matter in life. Everything is detailed. Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Negative way. "It is not this."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But to feel it, to see it...
Prabhupāda: You cannot bring it to any material platform. Everything is denied.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now to make a simile or comparison, we found from our experience in science that matter itself is rather very simple. It is composed of simple patterns and simple forms and structures. But now when this matter is touched by life or matter in association with life, is actually very complex in terms of molecules. It comes to big molecules, and the molecules not only big. It's very complex, highly complex.
Prabhupāda: You can understand, just the one grain of poison, potassium cyanide. You touch on your tongue, immediately whole body becomes poisoned. How the molecules spread immediately?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: How does it react? Potassium cyanide? It blocks the oxygen path? That's what science says?
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the poison action immediately spreads all over the body.
Prabhupāda: ...and it is a fact, he did not fix it. I wanted both of you to take various detailed photographs of that Capitol.
Yadubara: The Capitol Building. For what purpose, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: We shall have picture, planetarium in Māyāpur. (aside:) That's better. (break) ...spiritual world, material world, and so on, so on. Planetary..., succession of the planetary systems, everything. A building like that.
Yadubara: That would be a separate building from the temple?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are acquiring 350 acres of land for life for constructing a small township...
Yadubara: I think we...
Prabhupāda: ...to attract people from all the world to see the planetarium.
Yadubara: As you walked up the outside of the, or the inside of the main temple, inside that dome, they would have it on the walls. But that would... That original plan was to have it inside the main temple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You take all details, inside, outside. That will be nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Can you take inside? Is it allowed?
Yadubara: Yes, I think so.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) And you prove that sun planet is first. It is stated in the Bible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I was going to inquire about that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The order, Sunday, Monday, whether it has to do anything with the distance.
Prabhupāda: Distance, whatever it may be. But the sun is first, then moon, then Mars, then Jupiter, then like that. One after another. Otherwise, why Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, like that?
Yadubara: That means the distance, then, from the earth?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Quite. So we'll take this.
Rūpānuga: We're always preaching to everyone. This is rough sketch, but we can make it very colorful, make nice color, detail.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja sent me a letter yesterday, asking a little about Bhaktivedanta Institute, what plans, things like that.
Prabhupāda: So, we are going tomorrow. You are also coming?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Dr. Sharma: It is up to us to bring Kṛṣṇa's words now...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Sharma: ...to the world. He wanted us to do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, kindly do that. So you talk with him in detail how to, if you..., whether our, this branch will be situated... They say here it is good?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For Institute? Yes... I am also going to Boston to see the facility there.
Prabhupāda: But he can write. He give you.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, he can furnish it in so many ways, and we are going to need Dr. Sharma's help, because he's in the government agency in the scientific field, so...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he wants to help us, he can help us in so many ways.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says "the prickly sconce is lathered up with an old-fashioned mug and brush and shaved with a safety razor. It is considered of paramount importance that the base of the śikhā be shaved round evenly. The shavee sometimes shows some nervousness about this." He gets nervous that they'll cut his śikhā off. This man has caught every detail.
Prabhupāda: Good writer.
Hari-śauri: Anyone who reads that magazine will immediately become attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there's no comparison.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's got the best article I've ever seen though, about us, in great detail. It really reports the details.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. This is also good article. (break) Hm! Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, where is the key? Key? Distribute this prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can see how he's cooking very..., he's the most expert I've ever seen, and he knows these special preparations. He can cook many varieties of kacuri. (end)
Prabhupāda: The order is already there, it is open, open secret. There is no secrecy. Anyone can take it.
Interviewer: All right. But in terms of specific, say, choosing, specific things, specific details.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in all details, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is all details in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
Hari-śauri: So he's asking what's a man's qualification to be chosen.
Rāmeśvara: In other words Prabhupāda will decide who should be leader if he's qualified and there's a process for making him qualified and there's a process for testing to see if he is qualified. So in that way it all comes from Kṛṣṇa.
Interviewer: You chose, for example, these fellows here to run the publishing house and be responsible for the east coast.
Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. He's in charge of publication, he's in charge something else, he's charge, like that.
Prabhupāda: Arundhatī cannot. She cannot.
Harikeśa: No, she's not so... She knows the mechanics of it, but the details are difficult. When we get to the farm there is a separate kitchen, and every spare minute I will be with him and just teach him everything in great detail. (break) (lecture:)
Prabhupāda: So I am very glad to see you again in this village.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. It was the prediction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu that in every village, in every town on the surface of the globe, there will be preaching of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's name and the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. It is to be translated? (translator translates into French) So by your transcendental endeavor it is being fulfilled, otherwise who expected that in this remote village of France, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra would be chanted? When Caitanya Mahāprabhu said in every village, in every town, he did not mean that every village and every town in India. He specifically says pṛthivīte, means on the surface of the globe.
Prabhupāda: This Indira Gandhi?
Atreya Ṛṣi: No, Mahatma Gandhi. When I was in America three months ago, this was in a magazine, a new study. And it was very interesting because it showed that how subconsciously this man was very much, very much affected by sex, influenced. After I read it, I understood your comments a lot better, because it was a very frank study of details of his life and...
Prabhupāda: You sit down, I'll show you.
Nava-yauvana: I should sit in front here.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No, you stand and do it. Do it but do it strongly. Or you can do it like this, just comfortable. Comfortable. He was used to getting massage from woman.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, this is known. He used to have women devotees who...
Prabhupāda: No, it was known to everyone. And that was remarked that his granddaughter, I mean granddaughter-in-law, he was always accompanied, resting his head on their shoulder, he was walking. That was remarked by...
Shahrezad: I believe in philosophy that the Creator must exist, but I don't know about the stories and details that I hear from...
Prabhupāda: No, that you shall understand. First of all you must accept that there is creator. Then we study what is the nature of that creator. Just like these rascals, they are trying to prove that creation begins from stone, matter. Whether that is fact, whether creation begins from stone or from life, these things are to be studied. Creation they are accepting, but they are trying to prove that creation is from matter. Our proposition is "No, creation is from life." There are two things, life and matter. These are subject matters for further studies. First of all, we must know there is a creator. The atheists, they say there is no creator but there is creation, do they not? There is creation.
Nava-yauvana: By chance.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, by chance or by arrangement, but there is beginning, creation. Yes, they say "By chance." Their argument is that prakṛti-puruṣa. Just like young man, young woman meets by chance, and the woman becomes pregnant. So this pregnancy is by chance. That is the argument. Is it not? There was no arrangement, but by chance they met and there is pregnancy. Is not that their argument? What is that chance argument?
Nava-yauvana: There is no controller.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to... Yes. We have to see, make plans.
Jayapatākā: Because actually just by giving the site plan you can't make a plan because that's a high area and it goes down to the river. So from our land to the river, that is also under our use. That is klashjami.(?) That is no man's land, but that we can also use and that has to be some strengthening so that when the river..., and rain cannot wear down the side. So these details they should come and see, and then they could make a proper plan, I think. Without seeing, they can't make. 'Cause it's a very small area, it should be very well planned. And the local people there, they are very innocent people. They don't seem to have any type of enmity or envy at all. They all come and chant and see. Although they don't strictly follow the rules, naturally. They eat fish and other things and smoke, but they seem to be simple people. If someone would work with him, I think he could make the whole village gradually Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Jayapatākā: But who that person is right now to work, that we have to train up some of our men. Because right now...
Prabhupāda: He can do, Svarūpa. He can take training, and he can do. And then, gradually, others will join.
Prabhupāda: That is their business, especially Mādhava Mahārāja.
Jayapatākā: It not materially by poison, then spiritually by ear. One way or other, they have to give poison. So I didn't even want to go. I didn't go, either.
Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara Mahārāja is also within the group?
Jayapatākā: Of course, all those details we don't know. By the way, Tīrtha Mahārāja very sick.
Jayapatākā: He can't breath. He is on a bed with oxygen. Life and death any moment. Injection, oxygen, barely staying alive. One day better, one day worse. Now they say better; then again they say worse. (Break) That is what we simply need, are people... I saw the program so nicely if people would simply come and work sincerely, they'll make spiritual advancement. They'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very quickly they'll become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So now we're seeing that... We're demanding that sincere people come.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it may not be the association of lazy people. Free hotel.
Prabhupāda: A very important article.
Gargamuni: A very good article.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And it details everything. So you purchase some copies. We have to prepare...
Prabhupāda: Language difficulty is there. That we have to solve.
Commissioner: Therefore training has to be done here and in other places, and a center has to be there. You could plan one of those with...
Prabhupāda: Yes, plan is there. Just like we are doing. And we can give you in detail. Provided you accept this principle that we shall abide by the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā.
Commissioner: Who questions the Gītā and the Upaniṣads?
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Very difficult. You see. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they are supposed to be preaching Bhagavad-gītā. They take their photograph in front of Bhagavad-gītā, but without Kṛṣṇa. They'll never talk of Kṛṣṇa any time. Banish Kṛṣṇa. Even Gandhi has said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." Perhaps you have read in his Gītā-Press edition.(?) Kṛṣṇa is speaking... Radhakrishnan said when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad bhaktaḥ, and he says it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person. Just see how misleading it is. And if a person like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi, misleads, then who will hear me? What I am? There is one big person in Bombay, he said that he has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for Gītā-pracāra. But when I proposed Gītā-pracāra means Kṛṣṇa pracāra, so he said, "No, I want Gītā without Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He's the father of all living entities. They should know it. We have got many other films also. How we are giving protection to the cows in different farms, how we are getting sumptuous milk. Two years ago there was an article in the Navabhārata Times in Delhi, big article, one full page, first page. And the heading was that New Vrindaban (Hindi). They gave this heading. And they gave all details how to use the land New Vrindaban in Virginia, we have got one thousand acre of land and they are utilizing it. How they are living peacefully. So we want to make an example here with this six hundred acres of land, if it is given to us. Kṛṣṇa's formula is there.
Hari-śauri: There's another one just coming up now which explains the philosophy in more detail. The films were to show general activities, that was The Hare Kṛṣṇa People. The new film was to show the farming scheme that Prabhupāda set up in New Vrindaban, and many other farms we have now. And there was one other film to show how the books are produced and then delivered to the public. So gradually more and more are coming out.
Mr. Malhotra: You know one thing I have found that there is spotless cleanliness in the centers. Whereas in our temples here in India, even when we go to Hardwar and Hrishikesh and all these, the temples, the outer cleanliness, not proper emphasis is given by the management.
Prabhupāda: I stress on this cleanliness very much. If they keep unclean, I chastise them like anything. (laughing) They have learned this art. I always say, "Cleanliness is next to godliness."
Prabhupāda: But if you want freedom, you have to do that.
Guest (1): Yes, that's true. There is no other alternative.
Guest (2) (Indian man): Freedom from mind, how would you explain it or how would you detail it? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...mind means polluted mind. We are part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Jīva is as pure as God and on account of this mind, he is suffering in this material world. You can see. You can see. Here is a living being, this tree. It is also a living being, but he's standing before me for fifty years or more than that. He cannot move an inch, and we are moving. So why this condition? He is also living being; I am also living being. I have got little freedom to move; he hasn't got. Why this difference of position? Due to the mind. So here in this material world there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. They're all due to the mental concoction. So if we want our original life as good as God, at least in quality, that is freedom of mind. And then we cease to become one of the covered living beings within this material world.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We have finished now Eighth Canto, and Ninth Canto is also at the press. Tenth Canto is already printed, this Kṛṣṇa as the summary of Tenth. Now I have to publish in detail.
Guest (1): We have been praying, Prabhupāda, to Lord Kṛṣṇa that we want him for a long time. Till this movement is fully bloomed and blossomed. So for our sake your body has to last.
Prabhupāda: After all, it is Kṛṣṇa's body.
Guest (1): Yes. But what I said we pray for not for your sake but for our sake.
Prabhupāda: The body is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.
Rāmeśvara: These are the heads for the Śeṣa-naga of this Mahā-Viṣṇu exhibit. They are made from rubber and they have all the details.
Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?
Prabhupāda: You do yourself?
Rāmeśvara: They do, yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of rubber?
Rāmeśvara: It has something to do with the curves.
Prabhupāda: Oh. In clay, it cannot.
Prabhupāda: So you decide amongst yourselves. Majority should be taken.
Satsvarūpa: I know. We'll be doing that at Māyāpur, but we all want to follow what your direction is.
Prabhupāda: So give me detailed statement. I shall... (break) All right.
Hari-śauri: Their ideas run similar, that they wanted to... Their so-called philosophy was that all the working people should be supplied sufficient foodstuffs and there shouldn't be any capitalism and..., like this.
Prabhupāda: The Gandhi's philosophy is to wipe out the capitalist, Britishers, and his philosophy also, the same.
Satsvarūpa: But one was nonviolent.
Prabhupāda: That is only pretext.
Rāmeśvara: You have already defined violence as "Anything which does not save a man from repeated birth and death, that is violence."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Violence, I take it in this way, that you have got right to possess this. If I do not allow you to possess, that is violent. Somehow or other, I check it, and that is violence.
Prabhupāda: My opinion is already there according to the... They should be chaste, faithful to husband. Little literary knowledge, they can read. That's all. Not very much.
Satsvarūpa: As for the details of where and how to do this, that should be worked out by the GBC.
Satsvarūpa: They had another question, whether these sannyāsīs' widows, that they would like to engage them, those who want to do it, as teachers. They think that would be a good...
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Satsvarūpa: Yogeśvara is going to Los Angeles to produce children's books. He wants the books to be first class, just like your books, with illustrations, that are appreciated everywhere. He said a children's books illustration...
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Texas they also produce some books. Where are those books?
Hari-śauri: They have a sample here.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in an audience like that, in, let's say, one hour lecture, we cannot say that "You go to the temple and chant and do all these things."
Prabhupāda: No, that is later on. First of all you have to accept that there is original father. That is God. Now, how to realize that God, that is another detail.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we made an attempt... I made an attempt to show this, that bhakti-yoga is science, but it is a subtle science. But it has...
Prabhupāda: To understand God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It needs to...
Prabhupāda: It is a science. It is the only science by which you can understand God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It needs to change our thinking. So we approached like this, that...
Prabhupāda: But because they are not accepting the process, they cannot understand what is God. Therefore they are bewildered. This is the only process. So if they take to bhakti-yoga, they will see, "Yes, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Oh, everything is Vās... Kṛṣṇa is the origin." No, they are struggling to know the origin, but because they have not taken the right process, they are bewildered. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). By false ahaṅkāra, egotism, they are rejecting, that "There is no God," and they remain in the darkness. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Birth after birth they remain in darkness. (pause) Mūḍha janmani janmani, birth after birth.
Prabhupāda: Story means it is story for you. Do you know the details of the whole universe, where, what is what? Can you do? You go and say there is no moonshine, but this rascal conclusion will be taken. Why there should be shine? From the sand such brilliant moonshine is coming? We have to believe that? So many books have said (indistinct) brilliant. Sun is brilliant. This... So you rascal, you can believe in that, but we'll not believe. You can say. What do you know about moon? It is all rascaldom. It may be good for rascals like you, not for intelligent man like me.
Satsvarūpa: And we discussed the sannyāsa recommendations. No one who was recommended last year for sannyāsa was approved this year. During the year they did not prove well. No one is here for initiation. And for next year no recommendations were made. Then... One man... And I was accepted as editor in chief of Back to Godhead. The details of the editorial policies that I should follow, I can take in consultation from my other GBC Godbrothers. And further, in an attempt to set a uniform standard so that Back to Godhead is like scripture, I should function as editor for all Back to Godheads published in the various languages. In this I should work in cooperation with the co-editors and BBT trustees of the various foreign language BTGs. There may be various co-editors of those magazines, but I will be responsible to keep a uniform standard.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: Why not government make people God conscious? It is very simple thing. God personally is explaining how to become God conscious. Very simple thing. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. Even a child can do it. So why not leaders? Then their example should be followed.
- yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
- tat tad evetaro janaḥ
- sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
- lokas tad anuvartate
- (BG 3.21)
Why don't they do this, this God consciousness? Do it seriously. Then everything will be all right. They are defying the existence of God and reading Bhagavad-gītā. This is their position. And if I go to the details, it may not be very palatable. But big, big leaders say like that. We have got everything in India, and to become God conscious, to establish the Lord's kingdom, not at all difficult.
Prabhupāda: So you come and let us (indistinct).
Mr. Rajda: And we can detail some letters for business.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Indian (2): So can I suggest one thing? We were discussing the meeting with Morarji Desai, so you can carry on the conversation.
Mr. Rajda: Yes, yes...
Prabhupāda: No let us first of all meet some of the subordinate worker. When they agree, then we will have...
Mr. Rajda: That meeting could be arranged any time. Whenever it is convenient to you, you can, we can talk to him.
Prabhupāda: No, I am..., my life is dedicated for this purpose. I am... It is convenient for me at any time. Otherwise, I am not keeping good health at the moment. Still, I have come. I am just trying even up to the last moment of my life, if I can deliver some good to these people. That is my determination. What is this life? Life will end today or tomorrow or day after. But if you live just to the point, that is the idea. Otherwise trees are also living thousands of years.
Bhavānanda: Very hot.
Prabhupāda: No, Simla is not hot. This Srinagar is not hot. I know that. I went there. I know. When I crossed, there was snow on the road. So when Guru dāsa will send his report?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As soon as he meets Dr. Karan Singh. I told him to make detailed arrangements and give detailed report. You are eager to go there, I think.
Prabhupāda: Not very eager. I was eager only that if I simply get regular appetite, then the..., I can get some strength to work, that's all. So ask them to give me little orange.
Bhavānanda: Our only concern is that in the traveling to get to a place where you may get some strength—may not—that you will lose strength in the traveling. Without a guarantee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One problem I see... Of course, I haven't read the article in any detail, but generally they very much oppose—of course, unrightly so—they very much oppose the delineation of "śūdra." They are śūdras, these harijanas. But...
Prabhupāda: But it doesn't matter. We shall elevate them to go back to home, back to Godhead. Whatever he may be. Striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ (BG 9.33). Simply by denying that "I am not śūdra," that will not help. But they must be elevated to the standard of brāhmaṇa. That we will talk later on. But we have to convince that "This world movement is going on to make the human society to the highest perfection of life. If you join, we can help you." To the perfection of life. On the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no difficulty. That we can do. If you really want, there is a...
Prabhupāda: This will be amended now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Explaining one of the main objects of the 43rd amendment, he said that the articles... He said that the 43rd constitution amendment bill was significant in that it sought to remedy the excesses permitted by the previous ministry. He said that the article 31d of the 42nd amendment which provided the power in the legislature to make laws for the prevention and prohibition of antinational activities remained, and the previous ministry continued. There is no doubt that laws would have been passed in regard to illegal national activities. It was apprehended with reason that those laws would provide for preventative detention among other things as a remedy. It says there was no need for introducing article 31d unless it was to enlarge the field of preventative detention and enforcing it. Since there was enough laws already on the statue books which dealt with activities specifically detailed in article 31d and by trial in the ordinary manner." (pause)
Prabhupāda: She has misused the power, and nobody was to check. It is very dangerous constitution.
Prabhupāda: And every time Rādhā-vallabha changes something, that should be stopped. He is very much inclined to change something. This practice should be stopped.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "3) There will be a BBT budget meeting every week in L.A. at which all Press expenditures will be discussed and approved by Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, and a monthly financial statement detailing the Press expenditures will be sent to all the trustees."
Prabhupāda: This unnecessary expenditures like Sanskrit department and art department, this should be curtailed. We require money for Bhaktivedanta Institute.
Prabhupāda: Not yet.
Yadubara: It just came out.
Prabhupāda: Oh. We can produce more detailed film later on.
Yadubara: You asked us to make that one point, that we're not the body.
Yadubara: In Māyāpur last year you asked me to make that one point, that we're not the body. So we tried to do that only.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. That can be, and this..., done that.
Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?
Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life.
Prabhupāda: Transmigration, how it can be shown? The mind, intelligence, and ego you cannot see. But you will have to accept there is mind.
Yadubara: We have not really worked out any details.
Prabhupāda: Details, you cannot show it. It is so fine. Just like here is the sky, but you cannot see it. The mind is finer than the sky. The air is sky. (claps) That is sky. Where is the proof? (claps) That you cannot see. Śabda, sound. Sound is the sign of presence of sky. But you cannot see it. But it is there. (claps) This is the proof.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It can be suggested only.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Therefore śruti, which is beyond the sense perception, you have to hear it from authorities. That is knowledge. Who has seen it? These rascals... Who has seen it? So grossly educated they are. "Everything can be seen." Why everything? The same example we give. You have not seen your father. You have to hear, "Here is your father." That's all. That is the proof.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can do this, if you like Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the next room.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us all go there. We can finish now with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and then we can go and write everything down in my office.
Mr. Dwivedi: So my people need not come here now.
Prabhupāda: No. We are going.
Prabhupāda: From the very beginning I have said it is childish, 1958. I am not scientist. I have no... No, there are so many incidences. I never agreed, "It may be they have gone." They did not go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has very elaborately described how they faked everything. He gave in great detail how each part of the hoax was perpetrated. The thing is...
Prabhupāda: The Apollo, they were dying. They prayed to God. This is also artificial. Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our conclusion was that those three men who died were killed, that they never knew that there was a hoax while they were in training. Then, at the time when the spacecraft was going to take off they were told, "Now you're not going anywhere. This is only a hoax, so you have to act like this," and probably they did not want to. They refused. Therefore they were killed. We were discussing this yesterday, Gargamuni, Śrīdhara Mahārāja, Bali-mardana and myself. That was our conclusion, that those men must have been killed by the government.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise they'll disclose.
Prabhupāda: They are not old, but they have no intelligence. The hippie life spoiled them. Varṇa-saṅkara. Hippies means varṇa-saṅkara. No father, no mother, some are only children, doing irresponsible everything, making the whole situation hellish. How Bhāgavata predicted long hair? That is very astonishing. This confirms the Bhāgavata authority.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a very minute detail, prediction.
Prabhupāda: There are so many minute details, but this particularly...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why does it...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why does it strike you particularly?
Prabhupāda: It is very insignificant thing, personal. And it is said, personal, if you keep long hair, it will look... But it has been made here, it is said that "People will think like that, that he has become more beautiful." The psychology. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. They rejected all other things. Simply they'll think that "If I keep long hair, I'll be very beautiful." This psychological study is there. And five thousand years before, prediction. How much authoritative the book is, just imagine. Is it not fact? Vyāsadeva's authority, try to... How perfectly authorized he is. They're stating psychological effect of people five thousand years ahead.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. (pause) Among yourselves, there is no strong man. That is the defect. All like child. That is the defect. And it requires a very strong man. That is lacking. In every minute details I have poked my nose. Anyone, whatever you have got, sit down and select trustees, and the format is there. Make a trustee. So...? (break) ...should be so many copies. Every one of you GBC and important men must have that copies.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll distribute copies today.
Prabhupāda: Among few, Rāmeśvara will be printed in(?). Anyway, do your best. Otherwise there is a very big undercurrent. They are looking for the opportunity. (pause) They want some money first.
Girirāja: "And Śrīdhara Goswami. The committee members who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said committee members, a successor committee member or committee members may be appointed by the remaining committee members, provided that the new committee member is an initiated disciple and following strictly all the rules and regulations of ISKCON as detailed in the books of His Divine Grace..." Oh. "...detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three or more than five committee members acting at one time. 4. I have created, developed and organized the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and as such, I hereby will that none of the immovable properties in India in the name of ISKCON shall ever be mortgaged, borrowed against..."
Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.
Rāmeśvara: See, in America sometimes we will borrow against the temple to "fry the fish in its own oil." So we wanted to make this language just for India, that they can never even mortgage it or risk it in any way.
Prabhupāda: All right. But outside they can do?
Rāmeśvara: Outside they have...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja just said that the temple buildings should never be mortgaged. Other buildings might be, but what about the temple buildings? Just like in Los Angeles you have many buildings. The temple building should never be mortgaged, but others may be.
Prabhupāda: There is a word, devāyatana,(?) Indian. Devāyatana property can never be mortgaged, sold or risked.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja is suggesting that there's no need to list the address or in details.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just simply the city.
Rāmeśvara: We can do that right after we meet with Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we can do that.
Girirāja: So "...shall never be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred or in any way encumbered, disposed of or alienated."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the Indian properties.
Prabhupāda: Indian property is devāyatana bhavana.
Prabhupāda: They could not measure the whole thing. That is not possible.
Yaśodānandana: Then it describes here that "On the west and east of Ilāvṛta-varṣa are two great mountains named Mālyavān and Gandhamādana respectively. These two mountains, which are 2,000 yojanas, 16,000 miles..." (break) "...in the north and Niṣadha mountain in the south. They indicate the borders of Ilāvṛta-varṣa and also the varṣas named as Ketumāla-varṣa and Bhadrāśva-varṣa." Then it gets into more details regarding Mount Meru. "Text number eleven. On the four sides of the great mountain known as Sumeru are four mountains," these Mandara Parvata. This is the mountain.
Prabhupāda: So how you'll show actually?
Bhakti-prema: This is according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Now, that doll, that you have to make.
Yaśodānandana: We are calling one artist from Māyāpur. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja has arranged to bring one artist, so we're going to draw perspectives. We're going to draw this and all... (break)
Prabhupāda: We have some artist. We have... That's all. That is perfect.
Akṣayānanda: Yeah, but our... At ten o'clock I'll find out. After your darśana I'll find out what the details are. But they've already dug two enormous big holes.
Prabhupāda: The municipality has got sanction.
Akṣayānanda: Sanction is there. Some red tape. I'll find out later. Something about materials, iron materials, reinforcement, how much they need. They're always finding some...
Prabhupāda: So the P.W.D. has objected.
Akṣayānanda: Some objection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we wait until we find out? Actually to speak of the contract, when we're going to find out?
Akṣayānanda: That's what I say. I'll see him at ten o'clock, after the darśana in the temple, and find out whether...
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far, we have stayed in the Bhū-maṇḍala. We've now just picked the cover of Bhū-maṇḍala. We were thinking to do one more. We can do it later on, one more drawing to give it more detail, because the centers Meru and Jambūdvīpa and salt ocean are so small on this map you cannot even see it. So we want to...
Prabhupāda: Hm, in detail.
Prabhupāda: So within the limit...Suppose the lotus petal this way, that way, or this way...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're asking us to draw the details and make a planetarium very exact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lotus petal, it is round. So in one lotus petal you are conditioned. You cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far that hasn't been said, but that's... You can say that Bhārata-varṣa is a petal of the lotus. But I think if you look at the Bhāgavatam, it may... I'd have to see it, what it says. There's a statement that it may be the inner portion of the lotus. I don't know...(break) And what we do, it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Lotus petal... There are so many petals. You are conditioned with one petal.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Such a good certificate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.
Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three hundred dacoits attacked our temple, and there was fighting, and five of the devotees were in the hospital. Bhavānanda Mahārāja, he was arrested 'cause he fired a gun. He shot two of them and put them in the hospital, so they arrested him. And that's all he told me. Three hundred dacoits attacked. He said Jayapatākā is now there. Jayapatākā wasn't there. He was traveling and preaching. So he's there now. He's sending a report to you, a more detailed report. And they want... Jayapatākā Mahārāja wants Śatadhanya Mahārāja to go immediately there because Bhavānanda is in jail, arrested. And they want Prabhāsa to come, because the gun, the gun that Bhavānanda Mahārāja used is in the name of Prabhāsa. And Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is going there tomorrow. He's also going there.
Prabhupāda: So why attacked?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the only thing we could guess is that now the government is Communist. So it may be that these were Communist-inspired dacoits. I mean, three hundred, if there was actually... It must have been quite a huge number. That means they were organized. It's not some ordinary village dacoits to have such a huge number of them. So the Communists, maybe they did this. It's hard to understand until we get the report from Jayapatākā. He said he's sending it.
Prabhupāda: And police did not help?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it was in the middle of the night.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Small?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If they're going to have it in Māyāpur, they can have a little... Not very small. Proportionate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "The FATE..." They call it FATE, First American Theistic Exhibition. "The FATE Los Angeles exhibit is now complete with very small details remaining on the complex computer system. It will be operational on July 10th." Four days ago. "And the grand opening will be held on Janmāṣṭamī this year. I have no right to hope in this way, but in spite of my intelligence, I wish Your Divine Grace could see this first attempt for theistic exhibition in the Western world."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fortunately we have no scarcity of money.
Prabhupāda: No. Why? Kṛṣṇa has no scarcity of money. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya. Why there is question of scarcity? Make scheme. You are all intelligent. So with how much foreign exchange you'll begin in Bangladesh?
Prabhaviṣṇu: Well, at the moment, Pañca-ratna Prabhu has gone to Bangladesh, and he's investigating in great detail the cost of printing. So when he gives his report, then we'll have a clear idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What my idea was, Śrīla Prabhupāda, was this: If he can print in Bangladesh, not only he can print for his own needs in Bangladesh, he can print for West Bengal. And Jayapatākā, instead of... We can pay him in foreign exchange from America, and Jayapatākā can pay the money for the books to the construction fund, which would have been coming from America anyway. In that way it will be very nice accounting.
Prabhupāda: So make that scheme. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Nepal is there Lloyd's Bank?
Prabhaviṣṇu: I don't know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if there's not Lloyd's Bank...
Prabhupāda: No, Lloyd's Bank has branches all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Don't waste money for this astrology.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. In London when we were going to get the astrologer to do, when I heard it was expensive, then we cancelled. How much money he is asking here?
Hari-śauri: He didn't say a price. He said it would take two or three days to do a detailed chart.
Prabhupāda: It is useless. Better arrange as many hours as possible to chant kīrtana. That is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Today we did kīrtana starting in the afternoon till the evening. So do you want more than that?
Prabhupāda: I can hear day and night.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So should we arrange...? Maybe we should arrange starting in the morning going till night.
Prabhupāda: That is according to your convenience. But kīrtana is very sweet.
Prabhupāda: Do it very nicely. (break) ...unique testament.
Kīrtanānanda: All of this detail work, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is being done in gold leaf on white background. This is all marble. This is the main temple room and kīrtana hall. The columns are being covered with marble cut in patterns like this.
Prabhupāda: It will be a very... What is called? Attractive spot? What is called? It will be tourist?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. Tourist attraction. It will. Already it is that. The walls of the temple room, they are all marble. This is your study room. It has a marble floor. This is the marble floor. And the walls are all being done in marble in this pattern. This is the bedroom floor. This is the lower portion of the bedroom walls, and this is the upper portion, all done in these little... These is all onyx, and these are marble. And these are the outside doors. It's all ornamental carved concrete.
Prabhupāda: You have got so many artists.
Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: You should call me, and I will come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He described the entire ceremony in detail, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So he knows. When you are ready(?), let him have it. (Bengali)
Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: (Bengali) You have fulfilled all, everything. (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Don't fight amongst yourselves. I have given the explanation, my will. Execute like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: And then everything will be. They'll guide. Then what there is. (Bengali) Ekādaśī?
Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja: Ekādaśī.
Prabhupāda: Give me little detail.
Bhavānanda: The Show Cause, our Show Cause, has been submitted, and the hearing was set on the seventh, last Friday, but the ADM cancelled it until next month on the 18th. And all of us who were involved in this shooting case, we also appeared in court on Friday, and the judge magistrate released us for traveling in India and preaching. Before that we had been restricted to Nadia district. We hadn't been allowed to leave Nadia. The magistrate said that we are free to travel within India for preaching work, which was good. And the next date has been set for the 29th of December, and on that date we'll most likely be discharged from the case.
Bhagavān: He just spoke right before the thing closed. Svarūpa Dāmodara tried to point out how there is a difference between matter and spirit in that one can definitely see the difference between a living body and a dead body. But he didn't actually go in too much detail to defeat his arguments. But I was very surprised that he would come up with such a Māyāvādī statement, that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā philosophy. There are not so many scientists there today, maybe twenty. (kīrtana) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...let me pass. (pause)
Hari-śauri: If you're here with us, then that's all we need. Then we can go out and do anything.
Prabhupāda: Tomorrow shall I take the risk of taking little milk?
Hari-śauri: Generally when you take milk it causes lot of difficulty with mucus. This sweet lime juice, that seems to be doing some good, though. Perhaps it might be better not to take the milk for a little while until your system becomes more healthy.
Jayapatākā: Details Bhāgavata was discussing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're installing Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orissa.
Prabhupāda: That construction is not so important as printing of books.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have just sent for the detailed urine report. I sent for it. It will just be coming. Just coming. But daily, you can see, this is how much he's taking in, this is how much urine is going out.
Dr. Ghosh: Yes. Yes. Go through them. So first let me have a good wash.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. So Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja, maybe you can help Dr. Ghosh to get into a nice room? (Prabhupāda and Dr. Ghosh talking in Bengali )
Dr. Ghosh: Don't worry. No.
Prabhupāda: Give him the best room. And have... Give him best wash.
Prabhupāda: And inquire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can give him the details.
Guest (1): Yes. Details I have already understand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can give you the details and the number, account number. You can make a specific inquiry. The main thing is just to inform them of the fact that there's a power of attorney coming with a notarized specimen signatures are coming, and there will be a letter of direction with those two signatures, directing them to send the certificates by registered mail here, because Prabhupāda can't sign the same signature. That's basically all you have to do. This bank has already accepted one copy. (indistinct) Either way... (indistinct) (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is here. He just returned from Bombay.
Prabhupāda: What news?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "What news?"
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I have a new Hindi Back to Godhead for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I have met the Home Minister about two months ago regarding permanent residency visas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These activities are all as wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda, as the books you have written. We are seeing that you are one of those personalities, as great as the personalities you've written about.
Prabhupāda: So dose, everything, take detail.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to take detail of the dosage and everything about it.
Bhavānanda: Yes. They're going to get all of that tonight.
Prabhupāda: Then hold some festival in Delhi. Invite all the men who...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Invite those men?
Prabhupāda: Spend some money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should hold it. And invite the men who contributed?
Prabhupāda: Hm! (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtana. (end)
Prabhupāda: It will be success...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So these are the receipts. They're not actually the certificates themselves, but they're... As you can see, it's called an identity slip. I'll just take one and read it to you. As it's mentioned... It's mentioned on the N.B., on the back side. "N.B. This slip may not be surrendered to the post office when the holder discharges only some of the certificates held by him, but must be handed over when all the certificates detailed in the slip have been cashed." So the bank will want these. You can hand them over, you take a receipt from them, that "These were given by Vrindavan-candra De to you," like that. That's when...
Vrindavan De: Shall I give it to my banker? This? Or to Bank of Baroda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. You give it to Bank of Baroda.
Vrindavan De: In Calcutta?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Vrindavan De: Ācchā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You give it to Bank of Baroda.
Prabhupāda: Take Chandra with you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your sister. I'm just calling right now. (break) (long pause-Śrīla Prabhupāda is sleeping) ...of the different businesses of Vrindavan? Well, first of all he was getting money for traveling expenses. So I have written a letter to Mr. Bekkar, the manager of the Central Bank of India at Camac Street, informing him that henceforward the interest from the fixed deposits in the name of BBT should be stopped from giving it to Vrinda Book Company, and instead the money should be transferred by mail transfer to the Central Bank of India, Gwalior Tank Road, to BBT account. I gave all the details. That's one letter. Then furthermore, I also addressed a letter to the Punjab National Bank, Brabourn Road, informing them that the Rs. 500 should be stopped from being given to Shrimati Radharani De, because... I didn't mention this, but the reason is that she'll be getting one thousand rupees from Indian Overseas Bank. And I'm sending that letter...
Prabhupāda: Oh... Has Indian Overseas arranged?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Let me explain what I was going to say. The letter to Punjab Bank I have not sent to the bank. Rather, I have sent it to Girirāja and informed him that when the Indian Overseas Bank sends their first transfer of Rs. 1000, then he may send the letter to Punjab Bank regarding Radharani De. In other words, when we first get it confirmed...
Prabhupāda: Why not Punjab National Bank, as they are sending, let them send and ask Overseas five hundred?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because we've already given them a scheme which accounts for everybody.
Prabhupāda: What is wrong?
Bhavānanda: The only problem is then the tendency is to take less.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's easier to drink when one sits up. We can hold you up. (harmonium and kīrtana)
Prabhupāda: It is warm now. Hm. (break) What Shastriji said?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I had a nice talk with Shastriji, very detailed talk. He explained that the main... He said we have brought you to him at the very last possible moment. He said had we come six months earlier, so much easier it would have been. He said this time that we have called him just now was just timely that he came back again. He said that the main problem is the kidney. He said the kidney is working, otherwise you could not pass urine.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Through.
Upendra: Fifty, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...your letter with enclosures as on reverse. Kindly accept yourself and convey my humble obeisances to my ailing father, and Lord Kṛṣṇa will protect and we have nothing to worry about. Without touching details right now, as desired by you, I beg to submit that a meaningful 'further discussion...' " Remember, I had mentioned to him that we could have a further discussion if we had any questions, "...that a meaningful 'further discussion' could be ensued between us on the subject of settlement upon receipt of a confirmatory letter from the bank concerned either to you or to me directly as to the scheme purported to have been devised by ISKCON. No discussion, perhaps you will agree, without bank's letter, will serve any purpose towards a settlement. If it is a fait accompli, I feel sure the bank's letter describing the arrangements in so many words might bear salutary effect on our further discussions as propounded by your good self."
Prabhupāda: Hm. So?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one point about... Actually, I simply asked him for the name of his bank and the bank account, but he doesn't seem to want to give that at this point. Seems to have some other idea.