Prabhupāda: Sometimes that is exhibited by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He wanted to exhibit such fighting spirit, so who will fight with Him? Ordinary living being cannot fight with the Supreme Lord. Therefore some of His devotees, some of His associates, must fight with Him. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that Arjuna was inquiring from Kṛṣṇa that "You say that millions of years before You spoke this Bhagavad-gītā yoga to the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). The Lord said that "Many, many, many, many millions of years before, ago, I explained this science of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." Now, to eliminate any doubt in the minds of ordinary persons like us, Arjuna inquired that, "Kṛṣṇa, You are my friend. We are almost of the same age. How do you say that You explained this Bhagavad-gītā millions and millions of years ago to the sun-god? How can I believe it?" In answer to this question, Kṛṣṇa said that, "Both you..." (break) "...descended on this material world many many times, but you have forgotten. I remember." That is the nature of ordinary living entity. The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present, and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa.
Descend (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"descend"
|"descendance"
|"descended"
|"descending"
|"descends"
|"descent"
|"descents"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. But thing is that there are two processes for understanding the Absolute Truth. One is ascending process, and one is descending process. We accept that descending process. Ascending process means trying to understand the Absolute Truth by dint of one's limited knowledge. Our knowledge... However I may be great, my senses are imperfect. You see? I cannot understand the sun, although I see every day sun, without understanding the sun as it is from authoritative books. Simply by seeing, by, simply by sense perception, we cannot understand. Now, this machine, simply by seeing, I cannot understand. But if I hear from authorities that "This is this; this is that," that understanding is right. Similarly, Absolute Truth cannot be understood by mental speculation, however a great thinker he may be.
John Lennon: Well, who says who's in the line of descent? You know, I mean, it's just like royalty. Who's who? (All talk at once)
Yoko Ono: That's what I was talking about.
John Lennon: I mean Yogananda claims...
George Harrison: His guru's, guru's, guru's...
John Lennon: All his guru's, guru's, guru's, gurus, like that. Maharsi claimed all his guru's guru's gurus went back. I mean, how are we to know? I mean, it's a matter of just deciding, you know.
Prabhupāda: But Maharsi does not say anything about Kṛṣṇa.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Avatāra means avatāran. (Hindi) What is the meaning of descent? What is the meaning of descent? Coming down. Coming down. Yes.
Guest: In the sense of quality or in the sense of form.
Prabhupāda: The sense of form. Because your brain is congested with impersonalism, you cannot understand what is spiritual form. That is your defect.
Guest: That is the trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) All hodgepodge things should be...
Guest: (Hindi)
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. Everyone has some vague idea of God, but no clear idea. Therefore God descends to show what He is. If we speculate on God, someone will think one thing and another person will think another. This is the result of speculation. But if God Himself comes and shows Himself as He is and speaks about Himself, that is perfect knowledge. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading that message. God Himself is speaking about Himself: "I am like this; I am like this; My form is like this; My activities are like this; My address is this and that—if you like you can come back to Me. This is the situation. Everyone can come to Me." All this information is there in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. In Bhagavad-gītā God speaks about Himself and presents Himself as He is. We have simply to take that information; then we can understand God. As soon as we understand God, we can go home immediately. It is a very simple thing.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He also says that the species are not created independently. They say it is descended from, one after another.
Prabhupāda: So, if there is no question of independence, then how, abruptly, he can begin from a certain species? You must explain wherefrom this species came into existence. Harer nāma harer nāma...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are so many books on Darwin's theory. Goes... In the library, if one goes there are hundreds of volumes of books on Darwin's theory.
Prabhupāda: They have accepted or protested?
Devotee (1): So then your process is imperfect. You admit. We're saying that there's a process which is perfect, and it's a process of receiving knowledge which is absolute, that is descending, and receiving that with a submissive attitude. And you're saying that by your sensuous endeavor with your different machines and instruments, you can ascend to the Absolute Truth. But the symptom of a person who is in knowledge is that he's satisfied, he's peaceful within, and we can understand that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society is developing, is helping living entities, people, become satisfied within by receiving knowledge and actually coming to, to understand themselves and what's around them and so forth, whereas, let me ask you, how many people have actually come to this stage of peacefulness and knowledge, of being freed from the need for intoxication and so many different things, by your scientific method? In other words, has this process helped you to be actually filled with knowledge and bliss, or has it simply sent you into more questioning and more doubt until you come to a point of what we were discussing the other day, the Heisenberg's theory of uncertainty? Ultimately you come to the theory of uncertainty. So we're saying, when you come to this point, then you may as well just relax and try to have a submissive attitude, or any scientist, and try to receive knowledge which is descending.
Prabhupāda: Another, another thing is, he says, he says that he does not know what is there beyond this material nature. But he's still satisfied with that imperfect knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, our speculative knowledge, intellectual platform, is not helpful. We must receive knowledge from superior source, perfect source. That knowledge is perfect. Just like we give, generally this example, that to find out who is my father, my search out, research, will not help me, but if my mother says, "Here is your father," that is perfect knowledge because she's authority. Therefore, for perfect knowledge, we have to take it from the perfect authority, not by our speculative intellectual gymnasium. No, that will not help. Because our intellectual jurisdiction is very limited. That is Vedic process. Vedic process is not to acquire knowledge by ascending process, inductive process. Vedic knowledge is to receive knowledge by descending process, knowledge coming from authority. That, that you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter: evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Knowledge has to be received... Just like a child receives knowledge... He is inquisitive: "Mother, what is this? Father, what is this?" And mother informs him, "My dear child, this is is. This is this." So he is acquiring knowledge by descending process.
Prabhupāda: And God comes as incarnation. He sends His representative. Then it is corroborated. And that is perfect knowledge of God. Kṛṣṇa's, God's feature—everything is described in the Vedas: Brahma-saṁhitā, Yajur-veda, Sāma-veda, like that. And when Kṛṣṇa descends, He practically demonstrates all the symptoms of God. So then we accept God. And it is confirmed by authorities. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa Himself says that "I am the Supreme." Arjuna accepts, the direct listener from God. And later on, the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, who control the society, just Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they accept. Latest, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He accepts. So our guru-paramparā all accepts Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa describes Himself. So where is the difficulty to understand God? The symptoms are there in the śāstras. And those symptoms are visible in Kṛṣṇa. Just like everyone can understand, "God is all powerful."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it, is it also not the mercy of Kṛṣṇa that He has descended to incarnate(?) and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore guru is called the, Kṛṣṇa's mercy-incarnation. Kṛṣṇa's mercy-incarnation is guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, He's trying to educate from within, and outside He sends His representative to teach. So He's trying to bring all these living entities back to home, back to Godhead. Two ways, from inside, and outside. His propaganda is going on. His propaganda is going on.
Prabhupāda: Ascending. Ah, descending, not ascending. We have to take knowledge from superior. We should not try ourself to know. That will be imperfect. Avaroha-patha. Just like we're receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. We are not researching. Those who are researching, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They understand Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, maybe little learned. That's all. The Dr. Frog's calculation of Atlantic Ocean. That's all. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). (break) ...automatically. You see? But he does not know that behind this automation there is brain. He'll see, "Oh, how nice." That's all. Similarly, child-like scientist, they will say, "Everything is going on automatically." (break) ...but there is brain behind that.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Not Kalki-avatāra. This Hari-nāma avatāra. Yes. Nāma-rūpe kali-kāle kṛṣṇa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa, in this age, He has descended in the form of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nāma-rūpe kali-kāle kṛṣṇa avatāra. The name is already there. It is being propounded all over the world.
Guest (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...temple.
Indian man (2): About the existence of God?
Prabhupāda: Not only existence. What is God, first of all. He must exist. Otherwise, where there is question of "What is God?" So what is the nature of God, what is our position, what is our relationship with God, what is our duty, and what is the goal of life, these things are very thoroughly discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. So if we understand Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, then we understand the whole science of God. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...that Kṛṣṇa comes, descends personally, to settle up the contention whether God is person or imperson. So even the Kṛṣṇa's presence cannot convince these Māyāvādīs, poor fund of knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord is person.
Girirāja: (reading:) "Somehow people can understand the different incarnations of Your Lordship, but they are puzzled to understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa with two hands, moving among human beings exactly like one of them."
Girirāja: "O Lord, You have descended especially for the purpose of annihilating all kinds of disturbing elements within the world, and because You are the Absolute Truth, there is no difference between Your mercy and punishment." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...surgical operation is there, the knife is being used on the body, that means he is getting relief. It is not punishment. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break)
Girirāja: Is that benefit coming in all suffering or only when it is given by Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is suffering given by Kṛṣṇa... Therefore a devotee does not take seriously suffering. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susumīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). A devotee thinks, "It is the favor of Kṛṣṇa that he has put me into suffering." They never see suffering as suffering. It is favor of Kṛṣṇa. That is devotee's vision. (break) It is exactly like a son who knows his father well. If the father slaps, the son never protests. He knows that "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee is never disturbed when there is suffering given by Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Pradyumna:
- yadā yadā hi dharmasya
- glānir bhavati bhārata
- abhyutthānam adharmasya
- tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
- (BG 4.7)
"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself."
Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religious system which trains the followers to understand God and love Him. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6).
Prabhupāda: Yes. As he degraded from the body of Brahmā to fly, similarly, he can also ascend from the body of a fly to the body of Brahmā.
Karandhara: The process of falling down, descending, can be reversed, and one can evolve back up, ascend back up. It may take a lot of time and a lot of births, but...
M. Lallier: But why? We, in France, for instance, or in occidental world, we are accustomed to think, to think that the phenomena of consciousness is only a characteristic... (break) What is the signification of...?
Yogeśvara: Of that degradation of the human species?
M. Lallier: Yes, of the flow (?) of the four ages.
Prabhupāda: Where there is evolution, there must be degradation. Otherwise, what is the meaning of evolution? Why it should be stagnant? If you go, ascend, then you can descend also. Now, the Mr. Nixon was elected president, and why he's being dragged, "Come down." He is not coming down, but he has already come down, degradation. Nobody likes him.
M. Lallier: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And the more he sticks to his position, he's becoming unpopular. So his degradation is already complete, but because he's in the office, post, he does not agree that, "I am degraded." But from the public point of view, he's degraded. Is it not?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Brahmānanda: "I feel certain my book will help people both to understand the teachings of Kṛṣṇa the of His descent as Caitanya and to realize how Kṛṣṇa consciousness has transformed lives from drug-addicted hippies to loving servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity."
Prabhupāda: This is his study. He has written a book. So we can stop this, provided we are given the facility to work on.
Mayor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was thinking. Just in front there is a very nice house, big house. You have knowledge about this house?
Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We get experience daily. In the daytime we have forgotten the night dream, and night dream we forget in this daytime existence. So which is correct? Therefore it is hallucination. (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...one psychologist who believes man is his body but he talks very much about transcendence. Even the materialists now, they realize that the present condition is very miserable and this false ego is the cause of all problems, so they are seeking some form of transcendence. And many psychologists are talking about transcendence nowadays as the solution to life's problems.
Prabhupāda: What do they define about transcendence?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Either they will have to remain in this material world as human beings or they will descend among the species of the animals or even lower life forms."
Prabhupāda: Ah, they will say, "All bogus. This life, finished. I am free." That is the problem. This is their position.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We were finding, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they could not defeat varṇāśrama dharma. They had no society like varṇāśrama. In the colleges, they could not understand this body, but we showed them how the society could be arranged harmoniously, and they had no alternative. Their ideas on how to structure society for everyone's happiness, they have no good ideas. So that preaching platform they could understand, varṇāśrama.
Prabhupāda: They'll understand. I'm just pointing out the difficulties of your preaching. You'll have to face all these difficulties. They're like cats and dogs. They are not even human beings. Therefore the business is little hard job. You have to deal with cats and dogs. But still there is hope, because they have got this human form of life. There is hope. It is not hopeless.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you discuss this point, everyone is God and everyone is guru.
Devotee (2): Only if one hears from the right authority can one be guru. Spiritual knowledge is descending.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The premise of the Vedas is that there's a creator of everything.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a creator of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Origin of everything. The premise of these so-called spiritual masters...
Prabhupāda: No, this is a common sense. If everyone is God, then what is the necessity of finding out a guru? Guru means who explains about God. Everyone is God, then what is the use of explanation? There is no need of guru.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
- avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā
- mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam
- paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto
- mama bhūta-maheśvaram
- (BG 9.11)
Translation: "Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature and My supreme dominion over all that be."
Guest (2): Yes, but these type of statements have been made in all the other religions also. The prophet always speaks like...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the prophet can speak. Prophet is representative of God.
Guest (2): Yes, it is just like that, sir, just you said it is like a small pond and big pond. No doubt, He is a big light. You cannot that thing. But what my confusion is, is this thing, that we have to, and a bhakta will also, with a limited sense, will never be able to go to that extent unless he has to surrender to some bigger power than him. And what I think...
Rāmeśvara: The two figures on the throne of the altar represent an incarnation of God named Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda, and They both appeared in India approximately five hundred years ago. They are incarnations of God, God Himself, who descends into this world. So those forms represent the Supreme Lord. Therefore we are worshiping Them. And below, on the step, are the pictures of the spiritual masters coming in the disciplic succession from Lord Caitanya when He appeared in this world five hundred years ago.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya started this movement, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa congregationally. It was predicted five thousand years ago in the Vedic scriptures that in this age, the present age, the Lord would appear and would teach the real religious process for this age which is chanting of the holy names.
Rāmeśvara: This is very traditional in India, temple worship and the figures are on the altar. It's very very traditional. It goes back many thousands of years.
Interviewer: Let me ask you one more question. Why are you returning to India? Had you ever considered staying here in the United States?
Prabhupāda: I have got branches everywhere. Just like I am coming here after traveling so many branches, similarly I am going to India.
Pṛthu-putra: "And there is also an index and some notes which are giving the work much more easy for the reader, even the profound. This teaching took its root in the teaching of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that prophet of Kṛṣṇa's. His preaching in Bengal in Orissa in sixteenth century is again appear deeper for the devotion to Bhagavān. Srila Prabhupāda is descending in the disciplic succession, direct vamsa, from Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His first disciples, the famous Gosvāmīs. It is a considerable advantage for the French public to have these volumes where there is a vitality manifested from one of these past pantha, which are the most followed by the followers of the Hinduism. We hope that there is a large distribution of this tradition and commentary of the Bhāgavata-Purāṇa. Anyone who is interested in the life of India can find the authentic teaching, spiritual teaching authorized, and can also have access to one of the most beautiful religious poem from the Hindu tradition." This is the.... It's wonderful.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very good.
Pradyumna: Then, this is the end of his quote and then the editor, the writer is speaking. "This may appear an extraordinarily controversial claim to those unfamiliar with the spiritual depths of Hindu religio-philosophy. The latter totally accepts the avatāra concept which broadly means the descent of the divine principle into human affairs. In the Bhagavad-gītā Lord Kṛṣṇa intervenes to say..."
Prabhupāda: That is the editor's.
Girirāja: Purport. "The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the 6th verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is already liberated. When one understands Kṛṣṇa properly. Then.
Girirāja: "And therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body."
Prabhupāda: That return to God is eternal. Suppose I am your guest here, so you may provide me for some days, but I cannot expect that you can provide me for all the days. That is my mistake. But if you go to your father's house, there is no question of. He takes. That is the required. Go to your father. Mām eti. Therefore this is the way of eternity, that you understand who is your father and you go back to Him. Then his life is successful. And who is the father?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In another place, Bhāgavatam, it is said, bhavauṣadhi. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhi chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). So this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is bhavauṣadhi. And one must have faith rigidly. Otherwise.... Kṛṣṇa is the protector. In Bengali it is said, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke: "If Kṛṣṇa wants to kill somebody, who can give him protection?" That faith we are losing at the present moment. We.... In India especially, we are born in a country where God descends as Lord Rāmacandra, Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Buddha, Caitanya. Now they are asking, "What is God?" So the whole culture has to be revived. And this is an attempt, humble attempt, to revive our old culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We should join together. To this purpose we are attempting to open a center here. And Mr. Pandiya, how long you are here in...?
Mr. Pandiya: I'm here for the last six months, sir.
Why? The only fault is there is no God. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). So one... That is the basic fault. Everyone is trying: "There is no God. Science." This is the basic principle. So the whole human society is suffering on account of these fools and rascals. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is para-upakāra, how to bring them in peaceful condition, in normal mental condition, and make this life successful by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to do it very carefully. It is para-upakāra. So always remember this fact, that they are..., the whole world is being controlled by āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, atheist class of men, and people are suffering everywhere. But Kṛṣṇa also descends when such condition prevailing. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). So now Kṛṣṇa has descended in His name.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I have seen practically, even if they don't regard him as an avatāra, I was amazed, Prabhupāda, that people come and they ask, "Where's Bhavānanda Goswami?" And they look everywhere for him, and then they all bow down. He is famous. Simply because he performed strict cātur-māsya, so many people took notice.
Guru dāsa: He has descended to give you massage. (Bhavānanda is massaging Śrīla Prabhupāda?) (laughter)
Bhavānanda: I think this side is no longer sore.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Striking on the bone, so for an old man striking on the bone is very harmful.
Guru dāsa: Everybody sends their well-wishes to you, in Vṛndāvana and everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
| Page Title: | Descend (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of Sep, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=29, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 29 |