Deny (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"denial" |"denials" |"denied" |"denies" |"deny" |"denying"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...duḥkha-nivṛtti. Ultimately, stop of all sufferings. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Simply ānanda. Dancing with Kṛṣṇa, rāsa dance. Supposing if there is such life—dancing and eating and chanting, no suffering. So would anybody deny that? Is there any such fool?

Bali Mardana: Yeah, they're all denying.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Bali Mardana: They deny. Just like the Puritans...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Deny... You deny or accept, that is the... Suppose there is such life where you can simply dance, eat and live eternally, happy life. Would you not like to accept it?

Devotee (2): Yes, of course, anyone would.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Devotee (2): Anyone would like to accept that.

Prabhupāda: You see? That we are giving.

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You told? In that meeting?

Bali Mardana: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What did they say?

Bali Mardana: They could not deny. They could not say anything.

Prabhupāda: Yes, what is the difference that you say the animals...? How do you say? What is the symptoms of possessing soul? The symptoms of possessing soul is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. The consciousness. The animals have no consciousness? How foolish they are!

Bali Mardana: Just to rationalize their sins.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Rational or not rational...

Bali Mardana: No, to rationalize their meat-eating, they say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, to support, yes, their sinful activities.

Bali Mardana: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali-mardana: Kṛṣṇa is benevolent, and the material nature is not.

Prabhupāda: No, material nature... Just like you don't care for government. Then you be controlled by the jail superintendent. That's all. You'll be controlled. You cannot be free. But if you deny directly the control of the government then you must be controlled by the criminal department, by force. This is your position.

Bali-mardana: Either to be controlled by love or by force.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali-mardana: One has a choice to either be controlled by love or by force.

Prabhupāda: But love, there is no love when there is force.

Bali-mardana: No, but by Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is love. Just like you are being controlled by me. There is no force. Voluntarily, out of love... I am not paying you. Still, if I say something, immediately you do. Why? There is love. That's all.

Bali-mardana: One who actually understands the distinction, is it possible that he will still choose to be controlled by the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has already chosen. But he's foolish. He does not know. He thinks that "I am now independent of the Supreme Lord." But because he's foolish, he cannot understand that you are not independent. You are being controlled by another agent of God. And because, although he's being controlled, he's thinking, "I am free," therefore he's in illusion. This is called illusion. Illusion means something which is not fact. That is illusion. So this materialist, the so-called scientist, he's thinking, "There is no God. We are independent." So many things, like rascal they are thinking. Foolish rascal, childish. And that is illusion. Ahaṅkāra-vimudhātmā. Therefore this very word is used, vimūḍhātmā: "befooled rascal." Actually, he's being controlled by material nature. So how to get out of this material nature? That is explained, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "As soon as that rascal surrenders unto Me, immediately he's out of control." Hare Kṛṣṇa. How these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians can refute this arrangement? Is it possible?

Bali-mardana: Yes, they refuse.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Nitāi: If, if what?

Prabhupāda: I don't believe your documentation; you do not believe my documentation. Then let us come to reason. The reason is, as we see varieties—one is better than the other—there must be the best. And that is God. So far documentation is concerned, you do not believe my documentation, I do not believe your documentation. Then? How the conclusion will come? As far as possible, by reasoning. Reasoning is that we find one is better than the other. So go on finding; if you have got power, you will see that the best. (aside:) Give me that. This is reasoning. As the child has a father, the father has his father, the grandfather has his father, then there must be some ultimate father. How can you deny this? By experience you see. Suppose a great-grandchild does not see the great-grandfather, does it mean that he was not there? The reason is as everyone has got father, father's father, his father, his father, his, so go on, find out the ultimate father.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: They will say, "How do we...?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa is not God, but you have already surrendered to God. Kṛṣṇa may not be God, that is... You bring another God, then we shall reject him. Kṛṣṇa... But that you cannot. You do not know who is God. At least, we know what is God. But if you deny that Kṛṣṇa is not God, then bring another God at least equal to Kṛṣṇa.

Bali Mardana: They'll bring Guru Maharaji. (laughter) Many people were disappointed in Houston because he did not display any miracles. They were expecting to see many things.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: Many of his followers were disappointed 'cause they expected him to show some miracles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He will be rejected after a few years. That's all. Just like Maharishi.

Bali Mardana: Maharishi.

Satsvarūpa: I told one professor that... He was arguing in favor of Guru Maharaji. I said, "He's not mentioned in the scriptures," and he says, "Yes, in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says whenever there's a time of irreligion then He comes. So this is a time certainly of irreligion," he said. So that's one evidence, he said, in his favor.

Prabhupāda: So what he has done about religion?

Satsvarūpa: He hasn't done anything.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Where is that difficulty?

Bali Mardana: Well, like, someone like Karandhara. He suggested for him to go there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if he does not chant, that will be bad example. If he does not agree, then it is fallen down. Now he's denying to chant. He's denying to chant; he's indulging in sex. What does it mean? He'll be a bad example wherever he goes.

Bali Mardana: Is that an example of free will, that someone can choose Kṛṣṇa and then turn away? That example of free will?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: (BG 9.14) "Always chanting about Me." That is mahātmā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) "Mahātmā, those who are devotee, they are not under these material influence." Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: "the spiritual influence." So how he's accepted Kṛṣṇa? By his own concoction? He... If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Surrender means, whatever is favorable for Kṛṣṇa we apply, that's all. You cannot say, just like Arjuna, he first of all declined, "Kṛṣṇa, I am not going to fight." That is not surrender.

Guest (1): "I'll do whatever you want, but don't ask me to fight."

Prabhupāda: You cannot deny Him. That is surrender. Then, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā he said "Yes, I shall do that." So long I deny Kṛṣṇa that is disunity, and as soon as I agree, "Kṛṣṇa, yes." Then this unity. Unity does not mean that Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna become united, homogeneous. No. Kṛṣṇa is distinct and Arjuna. They continue to exist. In the beginning Arjuna was denying to fight. That is dependence(?), and at the end when he said, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73), my illusion is now over. That is (indistinct). Unity does not mean one's self loses individuality. That is cannot, that cannot be. Kṛṣṇa says that "both you and me and all these soldiers and Kings they existed before, now we are existing and we shall exist in future(?). So, that individuality is always kept. So unity means agreeing with the order of Kṛṣṇa, and disunity means not agreeing with the order. Otherwise your existence(?), mine and Kṛṣṇa's existence, always will be.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): Some of those childrens are Christians.

Prabhupāda: Never mind Christian, Hindu, Muslim. A Christian or a..., if we offer them nice food and nice dress, nobody will deny.

Dr. Patel: But these Hindus became Christians because they were offered nice food and dress by Christian missionaries.

Prabhupāda: No, our point is not that, just to bring them and proselytize them to Hinduism. No. Take prasādam, take dress, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance. That's all. I never said to all these European and American disciples that "You become a Hindu." I never said. Ask them. I never said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither we would have agreed.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I ask them to be? I asked them, "Just become lover of God. That's all. If you can love God through your religion, that's all right. You do that." I said that. I never said that "You become Hindu." Then I would not have been able to...

Dr. Patel: I think that they must understand, sir, that Hinduism is a way of life and not a religion. Religion is a Vedic religion, which is common to Christianity. I would say that Jesus Christ has taught the Vedic religion to the Middle East and to the heathens and he was crucified because the heathens were not able to understand him properly. That is what my, I mean, convictions, strong conviction is that Jesus had actually preached Hinduism, I mean Vedic religion there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was...

Dr. Patel: And all religions are in fact Vedic.

Prabhupāda: He was educated of his spiritual life in India. Twelve years here. Twelve years he was. And he lived in Jagannātha temple.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What kind of physician...?

Dr. Patel: I am their enemy number one. (Hindi conversation) If I have to... If I were a prime minister of this country. I would ask them to go to Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: No, no. As a physician...

Dr. Patel: They wanted Pakistan for themselves.

Prabhupāda: As a physician, you cannot deny...

Dr. Patel: As a physician, I will treat even animal...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That...

Dr. Patel: ...if he is dying. That is different story. But I won't...

Prabhupāda: So that is our position.

Dr. Patel: That is right.

Prabhupāda: That is our position.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1974, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Just like when you came to the West, Prabhupāda, you cleared away the fog.

Prabhupāda: At least, I tried for that. Whatever is done it is done by Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...keeps intelligent to the sincere servant. Otherwise, everything is done by Kṛṣṇa. So if you, one is sincere to Kṛṣṇa, he will act everything rightly because the direction is... Buddhi yogaṁ dadāmi tam. The perfect direction is there. I do not know why people denies to take direction from Kṛṣṇa. He gets perfect direction. But he does not like to take. What is this tree?

Jayapatākā: The imli, I think.

Prabhupāda: Imli.

Jayapatākā: Not imli? They call that...

Prabhupāda: No, no, not imli. Imli's different. This way, up to that river? (break) ...vāsudeva-parāyaṇa. Vāsudeva-parāyaṇa, means Kṛṣṇa conscious person, they solve all questions by one thing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Exactly like the sun solves all the problems of this nihāra, foss. It is called foss?

Jayapatākā: Fog.

Prabhupāda: Fog.

Jayapatākā: Mist.

Prabhupāda: Nihāram iva bhāskara. Let the scientists do it in their scientific way, drive away the fog. Is there any process? Eh? In the ocean, when there is fog like this, they have to stop all the ships and cry, (makes sound like fog horn:) onnnh, onnnh, so that they may not collide. I have seen it when I was coming, going to USA. Where is Mohanānanda? He is here? No. Mohanānanda? Hare Kṛṣṇa. The difference between other camps and our: they call these men from their daily, I mean to say, life, householder's life, for this purpose for a week or so, but they are not dedicated. Here, in our camp, all our people are dedicated to the cause. That is the difference. So they cannot surpass your activities.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And similarly, hog also, he likes to eat stool than halavā. He has got rationality. As you will not eat stool, you will like halavā, you have got rationality, then hog has got rationality. He'll not eat halavā, he'll eat stool. So where is the want of rationality? Why don't you eat stool? That is rationality. So similarly, he does not eat halavā. So where is the difference between you in the matter of rationality? You deny something, he denies something. Where is want of rationality?

Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda has said that in his previous life he had a pet pig, and he used to offer the pig sweet, but the pig would take the sweet and... He would not eat it. He would roll it in dirt. And when it is filled with dirt, then only he would eat.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: It tasted so bad, he had to have something that tasted good around it so that he could get it down.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) It is not for the hog, but a human being... I had a friend. If you give him rasagullā, he'll want little salt. Rasagullā with little salt, he'll eat. Without salt, he cannot eat. And my father, he was, at the last stage of his taking, some rice mixed with milk. While eating that, he'll take a little curry also. So it is a taste.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: On your personal capacity. Yes.

Guest: I say...

Prabhupāda: Yes, as a public man, as a person, you can do that.

Guest: "As a life member, I am suffering because of this reason that there is no construction of a temple, therefore I cannot develop spiritually."

Prabhupāda: No, you can go to other temples.

Guest: No, if I have got attraction for a particular temple, why I should be denied.

Prabhupāda: Then you are spiritually not improving.

Guest: I beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Then you are not spiritually improving.

Guest: No, but that is how they will give me reply, and I can tell them.

Prabhupāda: That is not very strong reason.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Brahma-bhuto 'bhijāyate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is no more śūdra or brāhmaṇa. In the material world, even if you become a brāhmaṇa, that is not a very good position. That is māyā: "I am brāhmaṇa."

Dr. Patel: But a sannyāsīs are also from the varṇāśrama.

Prabhupāda: They are also. They are also. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has denied: "I am not a sannyāsī, I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya, none of these." He said, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). "I am the servant of the servant of Gopī-bhartuḥ." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's identification. So those who are actually in the, engaged in the service of the Lord, they are beyond, transcendental to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya... Yes.

Dr. Patel: Nāham...

Guest (1): (Sanskrit) (break)

Dr. Patel: That is not Māyāvādī. That is not Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: That is... That is... That is not. I don't... If I say "I am not Indian, I am not American. I am Brahman," that is not Māyāvāda.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (2): He did not want to...

Prabhupāda: No, no, he says, even if he stated...

Indian man (2): Should not take it.

Prabhupāda: No, that means he's denying the authority of Vedas.

Indian man (2): He's denying the authority of Vaiṣṇava...

Prabhupāda: No, no, Vaiṣṇava does not say...

Indian man (2): He denied the authority of Buddhist, and not Vedas, see what he says...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you read it.

Indian man (2): Na vaksyam sarva-tamasaṁ yajña-śiṣṭam abhipacchet.(?)

Prabhupāda: Ah! Even it is yajña-śiṣṭam...

Indian man (2): Then also you should not eat.

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No.

Indian man (2): You should not eat.

Prabhupāda: No!

Indian man (2): That is what it says.

Prabhupāda: That is means denying the authority of Vedas. Vedas say you can eat meat after yajña.

Indian man (2): But he says no, you should not eat.

Prabhupāda: But therefore he's denying the authority of Vedas.

Indian man (2): You should, you should not eat meat even Veda says.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore he's denying.

Indian man (2): Yes, but doesn't matter. I don't want to eat meat even the way... Even if you sacrifice a goat here and offer...

Prabhupāda: You cannot...

Indian man (2): Na caiva...

Prabhupāda: ...deny the authority of Vedas.

Indian man (3): Vedas...

Prabhupāda: You may not eat, that is a different thing. But the Vedic authority... Just like, suppose the law says, "This man should be hanged." If you say, "No, even if he is criminal, he should not be hanged," that means denying the authority of law. You cannot say this.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (3): (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: You cannot deny the authority of Vedas. Suppose you are following ahiṁsā, you cannot say that "State should not anymore hang anybody." That you cannot say. You follow.

Indian man (3): Shall I read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (3): Vabhicaro na kartavyaḥ pumvi stri...(?)

Prabhupāda: Now, my point is that Buddhism was rejected from India because he's decried the authority of Vedas.

Indian man (3): So this fellow also will be rejected.

Prabhupāda: That... Yes, immediately. Because he does not accept the authority of Vedas. That is real knowledge. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam Yes, yajña, I mean to say, criticize the yajña-vidhi. Yajña-vidhi you cannot criticize. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Karma-bandhana. So yajña must go on, and the vidhi must be followed. That is real acceptance of Vedic knowledge. If you manufacture your own concoction, "This is good, this is bad," that will not help you.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Why do they touch of writing books? They are foolish people. Why they should attempt to write books and mislead others? That is our protest. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa's life in two big, big volumes.

Indian Man (1): But these volumes are very short, sir.

Prabhupāda: Yes, no, the lowest. But they have not written even a page about Kṛṣṇa's life. And writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Just see how much rascal they are. Not even a page. Rather, they deny, "There was no Kṛṣṇa." Just see how much foolish they are, and they are writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā. That is our regret, that how these rascals dare to write on Bhagavad-gītā? (break)

Girirāja: "...when Vasudeva was born..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...said, "When there is danger, it is a great opportunity for remembering God." Tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamānaḥ (SB 10.14.8).

Indian Man (1): And Kuntī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kuntī said, "I shall pray for the dangerous position so that You could remain with us." (break)

Girirāja: ...open the snake in the original Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the kāla-sarpa, kāla. The time is Kṛṣṇa, kāla. Therefore you can compare with snake. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Kāla means death. So snake, meeting a snake means death. So therefore He can be called a snake.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (1): I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year. Because he was living so luxuriously, all of a sudden he became a renouncer, he could not tolerate that. He died. Within one year he died. So therefore these ministers, they gave up all this luxurious life, became a mendicant. The question is how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kan... Then gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtādhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā: They were fully absorbed in the thought of how Kṛṣṇa, and His pastimes with His gopīs. He was always absorbed. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. This is exhibition. When one becomes ecstatic, "Oh, now I have to do something for Kṛṣṇa," then he renounces everything. Only Kṛṣṇa. Only Kṛṣṇa's business. That is the test. That is the test. What is the use of spiritual advancement? Spiritual advancement means these material things given up. That is spiritual advancement. That is... The example is given, bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavoḥ viraktir anyatra syāt. As soon as one develops real bhakti, he will be averse to all these material things. That is the first sign. "No more these things." Bhaktiḥ pareṣānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). Just like if you are hungry and if you are given some food, if you are satisfied, then the same food will be denied by you. "No, no, no. I don't want anymore." Full satisfaction. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). When he fully became perfect and Nārāyaṇa was present before him, He asked him, "What benediction you want? You take." He said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "Simply by seeing You, by Your presence, I am fully satisfied.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Guest (1): What I mean to say is do you believe that the soul and God is one as Rāmānuja and Śaṅkarācārya says, or as Madhvācārya says...

Prabhupāda: We are speaking from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. What Śaṅkarācārya says, what Rāmānujācārya says, that we shall consider there. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad-gītā that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So dehinaḥ means the possessor of the body, the owner of the body. That is the soul. So that you cannot deny, either you follow Śaṅkarācārya or Rāmānujācārya. There is soul within the body. This is Bhagavad-gītā says. Dehino 'smin, asmin dehe. Just like I was a child, I remember; you remember also. So that body is now gone. But I have got a different body, you have got a different body. But I am existing. So I am dehinaḥ, dehī, and my body is deha. So deha-dehī, there must be distinction. The body is not the owner. I am the owner. Just like I am sitting within this room, I am not this room; similarly, I am sitting within this body, you are sitting within your body. So you are not body. This is call illusion.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Yes, spiritual communism.

Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. Other things are cheating. If they have no sense of God, they do not know what is God, how to abide by the orders of God, that is not religion. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ-projjhita kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All cheating types of religion system is rejected, kicked out from this Bhāgavata." They're all cheating. "I am God. You are God. I am everything. You are..." This is not religion. It is all humbug religion. Go on. (break) ...has written about Kṛṣṇa by Vyāsadeva, and people say, "There was no Kṛṣṇa. It is all fictitious." Vyāsadeva had to take so much trouble for some fictitious. Just see their intelligence. Even no common sense. Why Śukadeva Gosvāmī will take interest? Why Vyāsadeva will write such book? Therefore they do not recognize that Bhāgavata is written by Vyāsadeva. But how they can deny? Bhagavad-gītā, that is also written by Vyāsadeva.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Haihaya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they said that equality came by... No, it's not equal, but they must give the same possibilities to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So that everyone is giving. We also give. "Never mind you are śūdra. You become brāhmaṇa. Come on. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious." That we also are giving. We don't deny, "Oh, you are śūdra, you cannot become a brāhmaṇa." We don't say that. He can also become brāhmaṇa. "Come on. You learn how to become brāhmaṇa." That's all. That... The point is this equality, there cannot be. First point is this. This is nonsense. But everyone should be given the chance to occupy the best position. That is in our philosophy also. But unequality there must remain. You cannot make equality. It is not possible. That is nonsense. In your country there is no equality. Why an old man—I have seen it—she is sweeping the street? So old woman, she should have taken rest, but she is engaged for sweeping the street. And a young man, he is becoming dictator. Where is the equality? She should have given rest, but she is obliged to work. And another young man, he is a manager. Why? Why this inequality? Where is equality? First of all settle up how you can make equal. That you cannot do. Then you are talking nonsense, "equality." It is not possible.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But is that very good intelligence? Suppose you are searching after one million dollars. You are working little by little, little, and if somebody says, "Here is one million dollar. You take it," Why don't you take it? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says it's a moral question. He already has his guru, and his guru has died. He's gone over to the other side, and he can't change gurus.

Prabhupāda: But there is no question of changing guru. If he is actually searching after the truth, then why he is denying the truth when it is delivered? (French)

Yogeśvara: He would have to be sure that it was the actual highest truth.

Dr. Sallaz: The real truth, eternal truth. Because you see...

Prabhupāda: That is... That we are... (French)

Yogeśvara: This is what the conclusion we came to yesterday with that other guest, that he says they have also find truths in China, they have also found truths in other scriptures.

Prabhupāda: So what is that truth? (French) (break) ...is that reality?

Yogeśvara: He says he himself, he doesn't have the words to describe it.

Prabhupāda: If you cannot describe the reality, then you have not received the reality. (French) (break) That means, as soon as you say you cannot describe, then you have no idea what is the reality.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then how the material body grows? Because the spirit soul is there. Is there any denial?

Robert Gouiran: We call in a way, but...

Prabhupāda: You call in any way, but the fact is this that there is something, when in contact with that something, the matter grows. Otherwise it doesn't grow. That we call spirit soul. You may call it something else. That is a different thing. You can call in a different name, but matter grows not automatically. There must be in touch something with matter. Then it grows. This is a fact.

Robert Gouiran: And it grows by aglutamation (?) of particles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That may be. The composition may be. We take grossly five matters, gross matters, and five subtle matters. Five gross matters: this earth, water, air, fire, ether. These are gross matters. And subtle matters: mind, intelligence and ego. These are eight different types of gross and subtle matters. But they depend on the still more subtle thing. That is soul. If the soul is there, the gross matter, this material body, it grows, the mind acts, the intelligence acts, the ego acts, and as soon as the soul is out of this body, it does not act. It decomposes and again turns into gross matter. That's all. Therefore that spirit soul is the basic ground wherefrom the matter develops. Matter is developing, we can understand. A small child is developing big, fatty body. The elephant. But in the middle, if you stop, if you drive away the spirit, it will not grow.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That is perfection.

Robert Gouiran: Just to be clear about what is the scientific concept of anti-matter...

Prabhupāda: This is the scientific concept of matter. The matter grows from spirit. How you can deny it?

Robert Gouiran: I don't deny this. What I'm...

Prabhupāda: Then this is scientific. That I have already explained. So the, the supreme source of everything is Kṛṣṇa.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ

(BG 10.8)

Read it.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts."

Prabhupāda: That's it. He is the source of everything. So-called material, so-called spiritual—everything coming from Him. Therefore everything transformed... Or not transformed. Everything is transforming. That's all right. Therefore everything belongs to Him. So everything should be employed for His satisfaction. That is perfection. Iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births, when one becomes actually scientist, he understands, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything."

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: Why?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If there is a...

Robert Gouiran: Because it's...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of renunciation?

Yogeśvara: (Reading from dictionary) It says, "The giving up of things, self-denial."

Prabhupāda: That's right. So renunciation means giving up. So suppose you are working as a scientist. You give up. Then what do you gain by that giving up?

Robert Gouiran: Because...

Prabhupāda: First of all, why should you give up?

Robert Gouiran: To get... To get, to get free...

Prabhupāda: "To get." The word is "to get."

Robert Gouiran: Well, I'm not English-speaking.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is the meaning. You renounce to get something else. Otherwise, what is the meaning of this renunciation.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: But it is just developed, but it is not a different body.

Prabhupāda: No. Developed means different body. Development means different body. They cannot say it is not different body. Then if it is not different, then go to childhood again. That means they're not human being. Human being means with logic. According to their definition, man is rational animal. They're not even rational. Like cats and dogs. There is no rationality. Cats and dogs also they have got rationality. Logic plus authority, Kṛṣṇa says. How you can deny? That means they don't agree with Kṛṣṇa's instruction. You see? This logic, I am not giving this logic. This logic is given by Kṛṣṇa. So unless... The difficulty is that unless they accept the authority, it is very difficult. Logic is there. The authority is there.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feel, Prabhupāda, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."

Prabhupāda: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Jehovah?

French Man: He has no name in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: Then take this name. (laughter) If you have no name, then take this name. Where is the harm? And they are taking Hare Kṛṣṇa, what is the harm? Every religion believes..., not believes; it is fact that there is God. Or any religion will deny the existence of God, is there any religion? I don't think. Is there any religion?

Bhagavān: Buddhist religion?

Priest: But you know, it's true, but you have got so many idea of God according to your own spiritual temperament.

Prabhupāda: No, God is one. There cannot be many ideas of God. That is not possible.

Priest: You have got many idea of God.

Prabhupāda: No, many ideas, that means he does not know what is God.

Priest: Because anyhow, when we say "God," we have to put into words, intellectual words, what is an experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Priest: And this experience is different for many people.

Prabhupāda: You experience... Because your knowledge is imperfect, therefore your experience is also imperfect.

Priest: But who is to say...

Prabhupāda: That is... Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, we know everything. That's a fact.

Satsvarūpa: They resent it, and they say, "Oh, you people, we can't talk with you."

Prabhupāda: You may resent, but we know everything. That is a fact.

Satsvarūpa: So how do we deal with that attitude if they're turned away by our...?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He's a rascal. How we can...? We know everything, and he denies. Then what is the use of talking with him? And waste your time. Let him know everything. We have nothing, no business.

Satsvarūpa: We can't compromise and just say that we don't know.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: What does he...

Prabhupāda: No, no. How you can...? You know everything. How you can say, "I don't know."

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You do not know practically that. You must be also a man of knowledge. Otherwise, you cannot say. You cannot be falsely say that "Yes, I know." You must know. Then you say. But if you think that you do not know, don't say foolishly like that. Then you'll be slapped. You must know also. So how do you know? The next question will be: "How do you know everything?"

Satsvarūpa: It's not that I am great, but it's the authority of my spiritual master and the śāstras.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Everything is there.

Prabhupāda: We do not deny anything. We simply request, "Be civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious." And this is practical; everyone is seeing this. We have got gṛhasthas, vānaprasthas, brahmacārī, sannyāsī. We have no such objection.

Yogeśvara: I can remember now. When I was in college, there were so many groups trying to reform the young people, the Y.M.C.A, the church groups, so many different social-working groups, trying to make young people become more, not so restless, not so much wild, but no, nothing. Couldn't do a thing. I remember I used to go to school when I was in college once a week to take care of one young boy because he was making so much trouble. They asked if some student from the university would come to see with him and talk with him once a week, to go out and go to the park and so on. So I used to see him, and he would be in school, and when I would come, all of the children would be the same way. I couldn't distinguish him from the others. They were all wild. And then they said, "Oh, he's the one, there."

Prabhupāda: Is there any other meeting?

Jyotirmayī: Yes. It will be later. It will be at six-fifteen, in forty-five minutes. The man coming, will be a psychiatrist.

Satsvarūpa: So we can take your leave until then.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda Hari-haribol. (devotees pay obeisances.)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Should I distribute this to the devotees?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: In other words, what you're saying is that, in essence we must stick to the words of God without interpreting." (aside:) Is that what he said?

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it. That we want.

Bhagavān: (to translators:) You should repeat your point that you make sure he understands. (French)

Prabhupāda: If you interpret, then the God's authority is denied. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says there is some deviation, some interpretation by some philosophers or sages. They deviate...

Prabhupāda: One who deviates is not a sage. He's a thief.

Pṛthu Putra: Yeah, it's what he says. I'm just translating his words.

Prabhupāda: No, if he deviates from the words of God, then he is not a sage. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, well, the thing that he appreciates in Hinduism is its openness and its tolerance to so many different paths and so many different interpretations.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But to abide by the orders of God, that is another thing. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says then we've made the full turn again. We've come back to the beginning. (French) He said so we've actually come back to the beginning of our discussion again which is that real religion has to be judged by the actions of men.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can judge. Here is the action of the men. Now the young men and boys and girls are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And who is taking to Ramakrishna?

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Just like we're saying that all the ācāryas have accepted Kṛṣṇa, he says so also in the Christian religion, all the priests and all the Christians have said that Christ is the ultimate, as it is said in the Evangel. (French)

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have several times explained that Christ says that he is the son of God. So we don't deny it.

Karandhara: The point he's making, Prabhupāda, is that...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: What he's saying is that outwardly, they all profess allegiance to Jesus, but they, it's seen that they disagree with one another on many points. They have diversified opinions about what Jesus meant about this and what does life signify.

Yogeśvara: And therefore, for him, he doesn't even consider that question, whether Christ is the son of God, whether he's not the son of God. For him, it's a secondary problem.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, what is his problem. That he did never disclose.

Yogeśvara: Well, he says the problem is the art of living, what is the best way to live.

Prabhupāda: So he has got his opinion. I have got my own opinion. How we'll agree? We say that you remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything will be solved. Does he agree? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, "No, absolutely not. Just like I don't accept the existence..."

Prabhupāda: Then why shall I agree to his point? (French) So...

Yogeśvara: So he says, "So I have to leave now. But the last thing I'd like to say is that I reject that conclusion just like I reject also the Christian conclusion that the truth is in the Evangel. But," he says, "that doesn't impede me, that doesn't stop me from working very nicely with some of my best friends who are Christians when it comes down to practical work."

Prabhupāda: No, what is his opinion? That he never disclosed.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: The government argues that they do not want to discriminate against any religious faith. So they remain secular.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is no governmen... Religious faith is different. That is nonsense. You, we are talking of science. We are, just like we were saying that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So where is the, any religious feeling? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, how you can say no? Can you say?

Paramahaṁsa: They can say, "We don't know Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: You don't know Kṛṣṇa, but it belongs to somebody. He may be named as Kṛṣṇa or something else. That doesn't matter. But it is, it does not belong to you. How you can deny it? You have come here... Suppose I have come here, in Paris. I stay here for one week, two. Does it mean Paris is mine? Similarly, you come from the womb of your mother and stay here, say, fifty years. That is mean yours? The same example. Does it mean that the world belongs to you? Why you are claiming, "This is France," "This is Europe," "This is America," "This is mine," "This is mine..."? Before your birth it was there, and when you go, it will remain there. So how you claim that it is yours? So you don't... You must know as it remained, it was there before my birth, and it will remain after my departure. Then how it belongs to you? What is the answer?

Paramahaṁsa: It belongs to the man who created it.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: At least, he set the example before others. That is not wonderful, but he set the example. Therefore he is original Buddha. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He doesn't deny the personality of Buddha, and he says the most important thing they are following is some kind of disciplic succession from Buddha until now. He says the most important thing is the relation with the disciple and the master who is in affiliation from Buddha.

Karandhara: But they don't have the same historical... I don't think they're considered the same historical personality. I studied Zen myself a number of years, and they don't distinguish one particular individual in one particular period of time as being the Buddha. All the way back in history as long as history goes, any man who's come to the state of enlightenment has become a Buddha. It didn't begin anywhere. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says he doesn't give any special meaning to Buddha. Sometimes Buddha is with them, sometimes Buddha is a concept of God like the Christianity they call God, or Buddha is all this disciplic succession. He doesn't give any special meaning to the word Buddha.

Prabhupāda: No, no, buddha, actually buddha means knowledge, "one who knows," that is the meaning. So that is existing always. Now, we are talking your (sic:) Jain Buddha. Jain Buddha. No? What is the...?

Karandhara: Zen. Zen's a later development. The school of Zen started...

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to study this Zen Buddha. Buddha means, ordinarily, knowledge.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: It is just the opposite now. Now there is no place where Mahārāja Parīkṣit can go to find out a spiritual atmosphere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of our men, at least one, left our association. He thought that "This is denying the primary necessities of life." Rāyarāma, Rāyarāma. He left for this reason, that we do not allow the bare necessities of life. Illicit sex, intoxication... He was first-class criminal on this account, but he could not give it up. Therefore he left.

Devotee: Yes, I spoke with him in San Francisco, and he said, "Swamiji will not be successful because he does not allow free love in his movement." He says, "That is why I had to leave because there was no place for me and my boyfriend." Even he was not attracted to having a girl, but he had a boy. That boy used to be also your typist. He was from Harvard University.

Prabhupāda: That Neil.

Devotee: Yeah, Neil.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: And he told me that "Swamiji will not be successful in his movement because he will not allow free love." I just saw him in San Francisco before I went to India two and a half years ago. We were trying to get him to come back to the temple.

Prabhupāda: No, he cannot give up these bad habits.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: This is very prominent in the western country, which we are asking, that no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex. These things are only thing enjoyable.

Satsvarūpa: They think if you eliminate those, there is nothing left to live for.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Rāyarāma's statement. Yes. I am denying the bare necessities of life. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Who will try for becoming perfect in this way? Very disappointing. But still, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that helping so many. They are doing actually. All right, keep it.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya's program is so attractive that even...

Prabhupāda: That is the astonishment. In India, they give me credit this, that "How it has become possible that these European boys, American boys and girls, they have taken to this path?" That they are surprised.

Yogeśvara: We don't have a very good reputation in India?

Prabhupāda: Very good reputation that you have become perfectly Vaiṣṇava.

Devotee: No, he means the western people themselves.

Prabhupāda: "They must be cynic, crazy, another edition of hippies." Like that, they say like that.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: There is no such...

Yogeśvara: Now, one thing is that we accept Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa on reference from Vedas, but Buddha denied the value of the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish. Therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. This is their brain.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Mādhavānanda: From boyhood to youth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is transmigration? Transmigration means the first body you lose; you enter a second body, a third body, fourth. So your childhood body is not existing. Therefore you are in different body.

Mādhavānanda: So that way anyone can understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way of understanding. And Kṛṣṇa says, the authority, that "This is the way." It is not that I have manufactured some philosophy. No. The most powerful authority, He says. So where is the position to deny it? Who can deny it, Kṛṣṇa's statement? If somebody denies, then he is a rascal. That's all. Therefore we say that we have no difficulty to find out a rascal. As soon as one denies this, Kṛṣṇa's statement, he is a rascal. That's it. Anyone who does not accept the transmigration of the soul, he is a rascal, that's all, immediately. So easily understood, and still they will not understand. What is the possible objection?

Satsvarūpa: Well, that example can be understood, but for the materialist, he doesn't see how it applies to afterlife, one takes another body.

Prabhupāda: Why, why he does not?

Satsvarūpa: Because he can't perceive. He can perceive that he has changed from child to old man, but he can't perceive what is going to happen after death. So who knows?

Prabhupāda: But he cannot perceive that we, at night we change this body and go to another body when we dream? He cannot perceive? Your body, this body, is laid down on the bed, and you go away, and you are thinking that you are in Europe and America or in the sky or so many things. So what is that?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, while its happening he can't perceive it.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will do. Yes, you haven't got to undergo this or that. Simply chant and it will..., you'll become perfect. So easiest. But still they will not accept. That is the difficulty. When you give the easiest way they won't accept. Easiest way is we are recommending the chant the holy name of God. Do it. (German) Not that you chant the name of Kṛṣṇa. You have got your name of God, you chant that. Begin that. (German) (break) Then how can I help you? There is (indistinct). You do not know. So our recommendation is, not my recommendation, from the Vedic literature, authoritative recommendation and the Bhagavad-gītā, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). Everything is there. You begin. Therefore I said in this age so many things is impossible to be done. But you begin chanting the holy name of God. Where is the difficulty?

Dr. P. J. Saher: To know the name, because I...

Prabhupāda: To know. Why you are doubtful? There is name. If you do not know take it from us. (chuckling) Why you deny that?

Dr. P. J. Saher: There's thousands and millions of...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is one name. Why don't you take it?

Dr. P. J. Saher: No. I say millions of names. I'm looking for the name and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if I've given you the name why don't you take it?

Dr. P. J. Saher: Because I'm not convinced that is the right name.

Prabhupāda: That is your misfortune. (everyone laughs) That is your misfortune. Yes. (German) How can I help? (German) You do not know the name, if somebody is informing you, "Here is the name," he still will not take. That is your misfortune. What can be done? A misfortunate man cannot be helped. That's right. So here is the authority. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anybody can understand. I am coming, going, but when it is a question of vacating, I go out of the apartment, but I never come back again. I will enter another apartment. "The soul enters another body" means enters the womb of another mother. And there the suitable body is created and again mother delivers the child. Again new chapter of life begins. Where is the difficulty to understand? But they are so rascal and dull-headed, the simple thing they cannot understand. And still, they are big, big scientists, philosophers, and cheating others. They are unable to understand, themselves, and the same rascal knowledge they are distributing to others and taking Nobel Prize. This is the mūḍhas, the society of the cheaters and the cheated. Where is the difficulty to understand the simple thing, how the soul is transmigrating? They sometimes say that "We do not see how it is going." No, how...? Can you see the mind? But can you deny, "There is no mind?" Mind is there. Everyone knows I have got mind, you have got mind, but do I see your mind? Therefore I shall deny the existence of mind? Mind, intelligence and ego—these three things are there, but we cannot see. How my mind is working, can you see? Or how your mind is working, can I see? And because I cannot see, therefore shall I conclude that you have no mind, I have no mind? How foolish they are. Just see. What is their explanation, Satsvarūpa?

Satsvarūpa: I was just thinking of a different argument of theirs.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Satsvarūpa: That is that sometimes people say, "I don't mind this transmigration if I become a cat or a dog because if I forget so completely, it doesn't matter. I won't even suffer."

Prabhupāda: But it doesn't matter, but if I say that "I will turn you immediately into a dog," will you agree to become?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: Why? You'll forget.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: In greenhouses. They play music. Then they become more healthy.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Their sensation is very covered. Just like you cut the nails. There is no sensation. And does it mean there is no sensation-therefore there is no life? Unless there is life, how it is growing? It is growing; therefore you cut. But when you cut, there is no sensation. But there is life. Otherwise, how it is growing? The same nail, when you cut, you throw it on the ground. It will not grow. These are practical example. Just like little child. Their sensation is less. I know. My eldest daughter, when she was six months old, there was some boil. So the doctor operated. She simply, "Uh, uh," no cried. I have seen it. She was not crying. But the same boil, when a fully developed man, he will feel more sensation. So according to the body, the sensations are different. The same things, means mind, intelligence and ego, according to the body, they act differently. But the mind, intelligence and ego are there. The dog is coming, and if I say, "Hut!", unless it has got intelligence, how it goes away the other way? There is intelligence. There is no language, but because he has got intelligence, he can immediately understand I don't want him to come here. So how you can say there is no intelligence? The rascals say "The animals have no intelligence; therefore they have no soul." If one has no intelligence, there is no soul. That is admitted. But here is intelligence. How can you deny, "There is no soul"? The animals, the cows, when they are taken to the slaughterhouse, why they cry? Because he has intelligence that "Now I am going to be killed." And these rascals say there is no soul. And still, they are religious priests. Such fools and rascals are made religious fools, priests. No common sense. And they also get degree, Doctor of Divinity, DD. (break) ...Greek scholar, here in this Germany or in nearby?

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Yes. Formality, you should be respectful. Suppose your enemy—that is etiquette-comes in your room. But when he has come to your room, you should offer him respect: "Come on, come on. Sit down." That is etiquette. You know that "He's my enemy." That... The etiquette according to Vedic civilization: gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. Even your enemy comes at your home, you should treat with him in such a nice way that he'll forget that you are his enemy. Gṛhe śatrum... That was... Just like Jarāsandha and Bhīma. They, they wanted that "We want to fight with you..." (Break) Unless one of the kings died... (Break) ...a strong flavor, and it is continually, continues. So long it is alive, the flavor is there. So where is that art, where is that science? When you have... Where is that scientist amongst the human society? They are very much proud of their scientific advancement. Everything see, the flowers and leaves, so artistically, beautifully manufactured that simply by seeing them you'll feel pleased. How the man can manufacture it? And still, they are denying the existence of God and taking all the credit. How foolish they are. Mūḍha. (laughter) Yes. Yes, they have been described as mūḍha. Now, we are appreciating immediately Kṛṣṇa's craftsmanship, artistic sense, and we are glorifying. So that should be done by everyone. But the mūḍhas, they will not do that. They'll explain away. They'll never admit God's hand, intelligence, brain is there. They'll never admit. Neither they will explain how it is. They know it, how it is done. It has been done, or it is being done by somebody. That they do not know, who is that somebody. And when we say it is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, "It is I am," they'll not agree. This is their position. They do not know who is that somebody, and when we say, "Here is that somebody," they'll not believe it. This is mūḍha. Therefore it is said... The mūḍha cannot explain all... And at the same time, will not accept the real thing. That is mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: I came to give you. Some of you have taken, and some have not taken, so what can I do? I came to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my duty. My Guru Mahārāja ordered and I came. And... But some of you, you have taken, and most of, they have not taken. So that is another thing. But I came to deliver you the genuine thing. That's all.

Hanumān: The way you have come is that you have come as though you've not come from a religion or nothing. You've come and everybody fall in love with you, you preach, and, Prabhupāda, we cannot deny you are the authority because you know everything, and your...

Prabhupāda: Any way you take it, then you become happy. That's all. Of course, when you take it out of love... That is a fact. So without love, this transaction, because there is no price for it... All other transaction, there is exchange of price. Here there is no price, so out of love only, one can take it, not by paying any price. It is not possible. To pay the price of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible. Yes.

Hanumān: You cannot force anybody to say, "I am the guru. I'm the (indistinct). Fall in love with me."

Prabhupāda: Why shall I force? What is my... That is not my business. I am Kṛṣṇa's servant. I simply say, "Here is good thing. You take it." Now, Kṛṣṇa also says that. He does not force. Kṛṣṇa is God. He can force, but He does not do that.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (1): If I may something, this basic question, I suppose, may be asked only on the level of all religion, all philosophy, which does not put a line of division between practice in life...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): ...and abstract investigations. Now, in normal Western thinking we do deny the very purpose of that question. As a matter of fact, we never ask it. Since time when Leibnitz did ask this question we all forgot it, or deliberately we suppress it. We simply say, "All right, let's be concerned only with those things which we can deal with effectively in material world. And the question of purpose let's leave aside." Now, I suppose that within this system of thought which you have...

Prabhupāda: I may tell you two things. The purpose is... That is experienced by every one of us, what is the purpose of life, what is the purpose, anything. That, everyone, we can understand very easily. The purpose is ānanda. Pleasure. That is the purpose. There is no difficulty to understand what is the purpose. The purpose is pleasure-seeking. Or purpose is pleasure. One who hasn't got the pleasure, he's seeking after it. That is the purpose. Purpose is ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is the Vedānta-sūtra. Everyone of us, seeking ānanda. The scientific knowledge, philosophy, or even driving the car or whatever you are doing—the purpose is ānanda. That is a common factor. Purpose is... Why I am eating palatable dishes? I can eat anything, but I am seeking that "This sort of foodstuff will please me." That is ānanda.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She's saying that Christ said that "I am the way."

Prabhupāda: Well, every guru is the way to approach God. That's a fact. But he has got his name, Christ. So why do you deny this name? "Christ says,"—that means either you take him anything, but he has a name, Christ.

Lady: No.

Prabhupāda: No? What is this? (laughter) That is your conception. It is not Bible's conception. Bible says the son of God is Christ. You can create by mental concoction anything, but if you refer to the Bible, the name is Christ. Everyone says, all Christians says, all Christians says, "the Jesus Christ." Why do you deny it?

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Māyāvāda. She says that everyone has the Christ within him.

Prabhupāda: No, we don't agree with all these things.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): If we agree with Buddhist consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, no, whatever consciousness may be, I say that in the Bible it is said that son of God is Christ. His name is Christ. How you can deny the name? No, no, that is their interpretation, "Christ means 'I am.' " They want to interpret in their own way. There is name. How can you deny it?

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He is saying that you have said that we have a material body and also a spiritual body. So he wants to know if the spirit and matter are born simultaneously or if the matter is born, the material body is born, and later the spirit comes.

Prabhupāda: No, from spirit the matter has come out. Just like God said, "Let there be creation." So God was there and creation later on. So God is spirit and creation is matter.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (1): ...at the present time in this country to 10% of the people. They don't have jobs. They are let out. They can't...

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (3): Of course.

Guest (4): I am not denying anything, but I'm saying that the meaning might be, that "God and Jesus is one," is in a similar way that I and God is one.

Prabhupāda: That is fact. That is fact.

Guest (3): Well, again it depends upon the belief of each individual.

Prabhupāda: No, Jesus is described as son of God. Do you deny that?

Guest (3): Definitely, he is definitely son of God just as you and I are. But at the same time, as Christians... Of course it's a matter of belief.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The son and the father, they are the same because son is born out of father. So how he can be different? In that sense it is one.

Guest (3): Yeah, I'm not denying the fact that God...

Prabhupāda: No, no, try to understand. Just like here is a son, and here is a father. So there is no difference because the son is the expansion of the body of the father. So how the body and expansion of the body can be different? They are one. But still, in relationship, son is son, father is father. In relationship... Just like the mother is there, and her relationship with husband is different from her relationship with her son. In that sense, the son and the father, different, but in quality they are one because son is the expansion of the father's body. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. That is real understanding. So if the son sometimes says, "I am one with the father," there is no controversy because he is one in quality.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: They are wasting time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not understand what is their position; therefore their teaching is simply waste of time. This is the position: that God is great, and we are all dependent on God. Who will deny this? This is the original principle. Now, in one religious system it may be taught in a little different way. In another religious system it may be... But if there is no such sense that "God is the supreme, and we are all subordinate servant..." This should be the basic idea. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

He says that "That is first-class religion which teaches the followers how to become obedient to God." It doesn't matter whether it's Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion. If they are teaching this fact, that... Actually they are doing that. Muslim they say, allah akbar. Christian people say, "God is great," and the Hindus also say, eko brahma dvitīya nāsti. So you go... Just the same teaching.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: You're not actually saying that you're the only teacher who can give this teaching, but that any teacher who gives this teaching...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the principle. Just like two plus two equal to four. So anyone who teaches this, he is a teacher. And if a rascal says two plus two equal to three, then he is not a teacher; he is a cheater.

Reporter: So are you saying in fact that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... I am saying, what I am saying to you, that "God is great, and everyone is servant." Can you deny this? Can you deny this?

Reporter: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the difficulty? Nobody, no sane man, will deny it.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So these things are there. God is great, we are all subordinate, and we are maintained. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. This is the Vedic information. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So this principle should be broadcast. People should know what is his position.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: You want to be independent?

Haṁsadūta: He says that "I guess we are not independent of our death."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Very... Thank you. (laughter) That is intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not accepting God in lifetime, they will meet God, death. Death is another form of God. That they cannot deny. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He simply defied God, and Nṛsiṁha-deva came, finished everything within a second.

Reporter: Is this something where we can sort of experience death while we are still alive?

Prabhupāda: Alive, we have been given chance to understand God. But if you don't understand, then next life you become a dog.

Reporter: A dog?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Reporter: Why a dog?

Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) Suppose if God says that "You become a dog," can you check it?

Reporter: Is there any way I can prepare...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can if you surrender.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Islam religion the form is rejected because it will come to that. As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādaḥ javano grahītā: "He has no legs and no hands." This is... means denying the form. And next he says, the Vedas say, javano grahītā: "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means God has no material form, but He has form; otherwise how He can accept? How He can understand my love? So therefore in the original Islamism the form is not accepted. So that is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form, and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are. I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form not I am. But wherefrom the form of the body came into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? So the pant practically is not the leg. The real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form; this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within, asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there was no controversy, the spirit. But they cannot see. Therefore they say "formless." If it is formless, then how the outer form comes out? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hands, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made, he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat, but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect with the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is spiritual form. It can take... It can become bigger, smaller, like that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But the form is the same. (break)

Prabhupāda: This has been... Body has been described as the dress. So the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can you deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can you deny this argument? You cannot say "formless." It may be, you cannot see it. That is different thing. But it must be form and individual. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they were existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and they will exist in the same way." Therefore all are individual.

Yoga student: With Kṛṣṇa can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead, which presents itself to man, and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān? Yes, in the original.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Same as Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya says sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. You refer to the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā of Śaṅkarācārya. So in the beginning he says, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt avyaktād anya-sambhavaḥ. So he has explained. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. And what to speak of other ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya... They accept, all, Kṛṣṇa. Madhvācārya... They worship Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa may have many forms, that is accepted. But that form, Kṛṣṇa, He is God. That you have to accept. You cannot deny that.

Guest: He was asking something. Your question was?

Guest (2): I thought when some people say that it wasn't very important to know whether Kṛṣṇa was living or not, they talk to Kṛṣṇa as a historical fact, as an individual, as a person who lived within the framework of time and space. Kṛṣṇa as an individual, as a historical person, might not even important, as they said Aśoka(?) or Christ or...

Prabhupāda: (Aside to devotee:) You come here. I do not follow the accent, you hear and tell.

Guest: What would be important was Kṛṣṇa teachings. One must, could not be confined to any one period of time. He is incarnation of God and somebody who was talking for the truth and in the name of the truth, and... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fact is that if you have got different views about Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot prove that from the Bhagavad-gītā. That you cannot prove. If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then you must present it as it is. Don't distort it. You may have got some idea, but you explain that idea in your different book. But don't place it as the explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. That is not very good. If you have got different theory, you can write in a different book. But we cannot permit or do not like that as the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā you will place something different. That is not very honest. You put your own theory. Why should you try to put your theory through Bhagavad-gītā? That we protest. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that "There is no superior authority than Me." Therefore He is the God. Mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "I am the origin of everything." And if you have got different idea, that somebody else is the origin, that you can explain differently. But you cannot keep it as explanation of Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Islam religion, (indistinct) reject it (indistinct). As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore, we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted. That is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are, I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form, I am not I am, but what from the form of the body has come into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand, because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? But the pant practically is not the leg, the real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form, this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within. Asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there would be no controversy, but they cannot see. Therefore, they say "formless". If it is formless then how the outward form comes about? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hand, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect in the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: What is filling the body is consciousness. The consciousness...

Prabhupāda: You may have a big coat or small coat, overcoat, the form is the same. But for convenience (indistinct) or small coat. This has been, body has been, described as the dress so the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can I deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can I deny this argument? You cannot say formless. Maybe you cannot see, that is the way, but the person must be form. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they are existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and (indistinct), they will always be (indistinct)."

Guest: Is Kṛṣṇa.... Can one say that Kṛṣṇa is the form that presents itself, of Godhead that presents itself to man and Bhagavān is the essential aspect?

Prabhupāda: Bhagavān, yes, the original.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Guest: You should give.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our point.

Guest: But are you not giving credit?

Prabhupāda: No, nobody is giving. They are denying. Especially these so-called scientists, they are denying the existence of God.

Devotee: "God is dead."

Prabhupāda: "God is dead" or "There is no God." "By science, we shall do everything," and this and..., all nonsense theories. Our proposition is that glorify that supreme scientist. Yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam.

Guest: And the supreme scientist is God.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He's God. Yes.

Guest: God, or you can give another name as you like, any way.

Prabhupāda: No, God or the Supreme Being. God means the Supreme Being in the dictionary. He is not like you, not like me.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you are in need of manager. You are in need of manager. You cannot deny another class of men of manager, so why not make the best manager, the brāhmaṇa, who is truthful, who is equal, satya śamaḥ damaḥ, who is control of his senses, satya śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣa, who is tolerant? These are the brahminical qualification. Satya śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣa. Who is simple, not hypocrite. Everyone is hypocrite. So why there should not be a class who is not hypocrite? All politicians saying something in the mouth and doing something else, because they are śūdra. So this is very scientific. How it not be scientific? It is spoken by God. Cātur-varnyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Required. Just like in this institution, I am guru, and if everyone becomes guru, then who will carry out the order of guru? There must be disciple also, who will carry out the order of guru. So it is not required... Just like in your body, it is not that body is made of head only, but head is required. You cannot avoid head, neither you can avoid the leg. So śūdra required, the brāhmaṇa required, the kṣatriya required, and the vaiśya required. And the society should be very nicely managed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ. Why does He not say one varṇa, brāhmaṇa? Naturally there must be division because all men are not of the same quality. You cannot expect. So whatever quality he has got, utilize that. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. The one man is lame, and one man is blind. So both are useless. So they combine together. The lame man was taken on the shoulder of the blind man. So the lame man has no leg, but he has got eyes. He was directing, "Go this way." So both their business was perfect. Similarly, according to the quality of the work, there must be a class of men less intelligent. They cannot independently work. They must require a master. That is śūdra. And then the vaiśya, then the kṣatriya, and the upper man is brāhmaṇa. He gives the direction to the kṣatriya. He is ruler.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Realize the Supreme, that is the first and foremost aim, but at the same time, to keep the whole human society in perfect happiness, according to the direction of God. Just like I told you that Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you want to keep the living entities, both men and animal, you must arrange for their nice fooding. Who can deny this philosophy? But they are saying that poverty should be removed, and we must acquire food for the suffering and starving. But what they are doing? They are manufacturing motor tire, the rascals.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) There is no question of dharma. First of all we say they must live. That is our proposal. Where is the question of dharma? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Give everyone to eat sufficiently. This is our proposal.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the actual attempt to give everyone sufficient food? Where is that attempt? And here in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) if you want to keep happy the animals and the men, then produce food grain. Who is doing that? They simply passing resolution and raising funds and then eating, themself, at the cost of others. And therefore the price is increasing. One who has got money, he can pay more price, artificial. I am poor man. I have no money. You have got money. You purchase before me. Then I starve. But if there is sufficient supply of food grain, then this thing will not happen. You can distribute without any price. That was being done in India. Educated man means unemployment, is it not? So-called education means creating unemployment. They will go with application, "Give me some clerical post, some this post, that post, that post." This is education.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Blind men. Therefore this fact is summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā in the words,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta jñānā

āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Because they have denied the existence of God, therefore they are blind and they are engaged in sinful activities without knowing what is going to happen next in his life. Therefore mūḍha, rascal. And narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind, because in the human form of life one could understand what is God, but he is misusing his intelligence for something else, narādhamāḥ. But if you say, "They are educated. They have got so much education. Why do you condemn them?" then the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This so-called knowledge they have acquired, that means māyā has made them more foolish. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says,

jaḍa-vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava,

jībake karaye gāḍhā

He has said like that, that so far advancement of material education means that so-called educated man is becoming more, more, more an ass.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Girl: No, not a question.

Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to understand that we... There are many sources of knowledge, but the summary is that knowledge gathered by experience and knowledge gathered by, through authority. So both knowledge is helping me about the change of body. So how can you deny it? And still, if you remain ignorant, then you are foolish. How you can say there is no life after death? I am giving you evidence by experience and by authority. Then mostly, perhaps you have got experience of the... In the, especially in the Western countries... Here, if you ask ordinary cultivator, he'll believe: "Yes, there is life." They they are philosopher. "Yes, in my past life I did something wrong. Therefore I am suffering. And if I do wrong, I'll suffer in my next life." You'll get this knowledge even from the cultivator. This is India.

Girl: India has the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who is born in India, he has got immediately this knowledge. He immediately knows there is God. That is the advantage of taking birth in India. What it will take hundreds of years to understand, they understand it by the birth. You have seen, so many thousands of people came. So the... Apart from this, the whole world, they do not believe that there is soul and after annihilation of this body, we shall get another body, another chapter of life. They do not believe it.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: Self. "Then my aim is that..." They're interested in people, then. How they understand self.

Prajāpati: Right.

Acyutānanda: So we have the highest standard of renunciation, highest standard of piety, highest standard of all religious qualities. So they cannot deny it. They cannot be noninterested.

Prajāpati: But in that sense, they would see us as a threat.

Acyutānanda: Yeah. So then you're only interested in keeping your Harvard chair.

Prajāpati: That's right.

Acyutānanda: Then they're not sincere.

Prajāpati: Harvard chair, bishop's salary... Bishops get 25,000 dollars a year.

Acyutānanda: Then if you can't discuss openly with people, then what's the point?

Prajāpati: The point is they have big, big buildings, big, big salaries, big, big positions...

Prabhupāda: That is... That is all right. If you want to keep one man in a very high position, you should give all comforts. That is good. Just like if you want to keep a king, he must have a palace. He must have his officers, secretaries...

Acyutānanda: So he means to say that if we present that we are better theologists, then their position will be in jeopardy.

Pañcadraviḍa: Then the question is "Then why...?" Now we are... Hypothetically, in this situation, we are approaching these theologists. Then why we are approaching if they are not open to discussion? I mean, what is the purpose in going to them?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Rāmeśvara: They're too busy making money to grow their own food.

Prabhupāda: "So then pay more money. Come on. You have earned money and give me. I shall give you food. And whatever I shall ask, you have to pay." This simple thing, more demand-price is more. Then why do you gripe, "Oh, everything is price growing, price growing." Why it will not? If I have got food, and you have to purchase, and I have got so many customers, I must increase. That is economic theory: more demand—the price is increased. And then you say, "There are so many problems. We have to solve first." But you have created this problem, rascal. And you shall must suffer. You have infected some disease. Now you must suffer. It is like say, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). The reason is that you have infected some quality of the modes of nature and you must suffer for that. How you can deny it? If you have infected some disease like cholera, smallpox, and when you are suffering, how you can blaim? You have infected. You must suffer. Nature's law is so strict that as soon as you infect a particular type of quality of nature—there are so many—you must suffer for that, or so-called enjoy. There are two things, suffer and enjoy. So you must have to undergo the process. This is... Nature's process is so nice. As soon as you do something, there is reaction and you are bound up. Yajñārthe karma anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Bandhanaḥ means bound up. Immediately you become bound up. And still, you are thinking, "Independent." The nature's law is so strict.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: You are so senseless that you do not understand that you are suffering. That is required, just like cats and dogs, they are suffering, they cannot understand. Your position is like that. So our point is that you are suffering, but if you become obedient to God, you will not suffer, that is our propaganda. But you are so fool, rascal, that you do not know that you are suffering. And still you are denying. God is the master, so if you do something wrong, you must suffer. That you are suffering. And we are preaching, that don't do wrong, be very nice, you will not suffer. This is our propaganda.

Devotee: But the devotees, they seem to be suffering too, from...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot expect, if you are suffering from some disease, you cannot expect to be cured immediately. But one who is taking the medicine, he is intelligent. His sufferings will be gone. But these rascals, they will not take medicine even. They will continue to suffer. This is the position. Devotees actually do not suffer, but you see that he is suffering. Because you are suffering. Devotees do not suffer.

Madhudviṣa: What happens to them?

Prabhupāda: They enjoy. They enjoy. Hare Kṛṣṇa! How you are dancing always, Hare Kṛṣṇa, unless you are enjoying?

Madhudviṣa: Sometimes I get sick stomach too.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, because you have got this body. And after giving up this body, completely, blissful life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You are not going to get another body of suffering, that is your advantage. And these rascals, they are going to continue one body after another simply suffering. And for the devotees, although they do not suffer, it is just like, the fan is moving, you make the switch off. It is actually not moving, it is by the last force it is moving, but the switch is off. And it will stop, suffering. But you have no such chance, you will simply go on suffering, moving, moving, moving, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You shall have to accept one body, suffer, and again give up this body. Another body suffer, because so long as you accept material body, this body or that body, you will have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will change bodies one after another, and continue to suffer threefold miseries. And devotees, actually they are not suffering, but even if you say they are suffering, so after giving up this body, they are no more accepting material body. They will remain in spiritual body.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It is explained there. He does not reveal Himself. Why He shall reveal Himself to an unqualified person? That is Kṛṣṇa's prerogative. If He likes He will reveal. If He does not like He will not reveal. You cannot by force see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, first of all be qualified, then try to see Kṛṣṇa. He is not exposed. Even a big man, if you want to see him, he may refuse: "No, I will not see." What can you do? If you think that "This man is third-class man, why shall I see him?" Even in ordinary human society that is going on. So why people are eager to see Kṛṣṇa without being qualified? Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" First of all you become fit to see God. They'll not become fit. They'll do all nonsense, and want to see God. Kṛṣṇa is addressed, pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. He is the supreme pure, and we are impure, and you want to see the supreme pure. You see? What audacity! I am not fire. I want to enter into the fire. You see? What will be the result? You'll be burned into ashes. First of all be fire. Increase your temperature to the same temperature, then it will automatically. He is paraṁ brahma, so you realize yourself as brahma. You are realizing yourself as American, Indian, this, that, and you want to see paraṁ brahma? The foolish people will do. And one has to become purified, sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to be free from all designations. Everyone, we give more prominence to the designations: "I am this, I am this." So how can you see God like that? First of all you become designationless. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya"—everything He denied. So purify yourself and you'll see God. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become purified. That makes you all right. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva means always. This is the process. Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" What qualification have you got? He doesn't think like that, that "I have no qualification." He thinks that "I am very advanced." That is foolish.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is an operator. A child cannot think. Motor car is running. Child will think the motor car is running automatically. But a sane man will understand that there is a driver. So persons who deny the existence of God are like that. They see the machine. Nature is the machine. But behind the machine there is an operator. These rascals cannot understand. Nābhijānāti, mām ebhyaḥ paramam, tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair. Machine is working, nature is working, that much they can see. And behind the machine there is operator. That they cannot see. What is your answer? What the atheist will say? Has the atheist any experience that any machine works without operator? Has he got any experience?

Paramahaṁsa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why does he say?

Paramahaṁsa: But this whole universe—we cannot compare the whole universe with any machine created by man.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Why you bring man? This machine is created and being operated by God.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, we don't have any experience of such a machine.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What do you mean by machine. First of all define what is your idea of machine. Just like the other day we saw, we saw the Thompson place, being printed, being collected, and so many things are being done. It is like this. By machine the seasonal changes are going on, the sun is rising, the moon is rising, the water in the ocean, the waves are there. Everything, machine working. It is machine. Everything being systematically done. Such a big ocean, vast water, it is just on the brink, no more. It is so organized. The sun is rising exactly in time, astronomically. The astronomical watch is one ten-thousandth part of a second. It is so accurate. You'll find everything is going on. (break) Today is ekādaśī, eleventh day of the moon, the moon shall be like this. There one can see the moon and he can calculate. "Today is ekādaśī." This is not machine? It is exactly, machine.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...psychology, metaphysics.

Kim: Yes.

Amogha: He was telling me that the paper he's writing for his master's degree is comparing a German philosopher with Buddhist philosophy.

Kim: Which, as far as I can gather, the self/no-self thing, Buddhism was denying that you're the ātman, I think. Could you perhaps say something about that?

Amogha: He's asking about the conception of denial of the self.

Kim: Of the ātman, yes.

Amogha: Ātman. The finishing of ātman.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So how can you deny ātman?

Kim: In Hindu philosophy, what is the nature of the ātman?

Prabhupāda: Nature of ātman is eternal. Eternity, knowledge and blissfulness. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12) ātmā is joy, ānanda, blissful.

Kim: I've read some of the Upaniṣads where they say that ātman is Brahman?

Prabhupāda: Why have I placed this flower here? Why do I like this flower? What is the reason?

Kim: Because it's beautiful, perhaps?

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you want to enjoy. This is the nature of ātmā. I want to enjoy. This is blissfulness. Then, why are you trying to become a philosopher?

Kim: For understanding.

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Some bird.

Amogha: Oh, yeah. In Bhagavad-gītā we claim that it is a fact scientifically that Kṛṣṇa appeared on earth and so many things. But actually isn't it because we believe that the Bhagavad-gītā is true that we think it is scientific? Because we believe it. But someone else would say, "I don't believe it, so for me it's not scientific."

Prabhupāda: Why it is not scientific? If Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), by eating sufficient grains, the living entity become flourished. So, can you deny it?

Amogha: That must be true.

Prabhupāda: Everything is true. If you think it properly, you'll find it is all true. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ: (BG 4.13) "By Me, the four divisions of human society are made." The most intelligent class, the brāhmaṇa, who knows the soul, God, etc., by their character, by their behavior. That is brāhmaṇa class. This is the most perfect way of keeping society. Unless there is a class which is very intelligent who know what is God, what is soul, then what is the civilization? Simply motorcar drivers? Is that civilization? Where is the brāhmaṇa? This is not civilization. Simply some artisans and workers, motorcar drivers, mill workers, where is civilized man, who knows God, who knows soul, who knows how to conduct the human society to the perfection? Where is that man? It is not civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: Yes, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many times when I am seeing professors or students also, they seem to think that traditional Hinduism or whatever they think it is, they say that the Māyāvādī philosophy, or monist, they think this is traditional, and..., because there's so many translations of the Bhagavad-gītā and the Upaniṣads they've read, and they're all impersonal. So I was wondering what is the best way to convince them that actually, that is not actually the original tradition of understanding?

Prabhupāda: How they are becoming foolish, that they are reading Bhagavad-gītā and they are accepting original tradition of the Māyāvāda? In the original tradition of Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān: "I said. I am person." How these rascals are accepting imperson? Why do they read Bhagavad-gītā? If they have got different theory, let them differently... They are cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is popular. Therefore they are taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and pushing on impersonalism. But here the tradition begins, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ. Where is imperson? So if they want to be cheated willingly, who can save them? They are reading Bhagavad-gītā and devīating from the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Then what is the meaning?

Amogha: They don't know.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Guest (1): I see it as a straight, deductive logic. If there is a...

Prabhupāda: ...son, there must be father. That is science.

Guest (1): Don't you think this kind of reasoning is a deductive logic rather than inductive?

Prabhupāda: No, what is the reasoning yours, that you deny father?

Guest (3): The father must have a father too, mustn't he?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, there must be supreme father.

Guest (3): Well, who is the supreme father's father?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is enquiry, that you have got your father, your father has got father, he has got his father, he has got... Who is the supreme father? He is God.

Guest (1): Who is God's father?

Prabhupāda: Nobody is His father. That is God. God is everyone's father, but He is without father. That is God. So long one has got father, he is not God. When you come to the point that here is the person who has no father—He is independent—that is God. The definition of God is given in the Vedic literature.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There are details. There are so many things. The total is rascaldom and foolishness. Godlessness means rascaldom and foolishness.

Journalist: Ras...? Ras...?

Prabhupāda: Rascal. How can I say, "There is no God"? Is it very reasonable? Just like you have got a father, and your father has got father, his father has got father... Go on. You come to the supreme father, the original father. There must be one original father. That is God. How can I deny God? Can you deny?

Journalist: No, I don't deny.

Prabhupāda: Personally you may not. But the atheists, they say "There is no God." The so-called scientists, atheists, they say, "There is no God." So how can it be? If you say "There is no father," how it is possible? Without father, how you exist? So God is accepted the supreme father, the original father. So how the atheists can deny the existence of God? Is that very good argument, to deny the original father?

Journalist: Yes. I would like to know more about what do you think our society is doing wrong?

Prabhupāda: Wrong because they do not care for the original father. The father has given so many facilities. We require water. There is oceans and big, big seas and oceans. Father has given. We require light. The father has given the sun. We require heat, everything arrangement is there so that we can live very nicely and thank father. This is our duty. But people are becoming more or less rebellious: "Oh, there is no God. We are God." What is this foolishness?

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: Are people using the wrong things to live too sophisticated?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must be. Because he is foolish, he will do all nonsense..., wrong things, which will create unhappiness. To deny God means foolishness, and foolish man simply will create trouble. Just like monkey. Monkey is always busy by simply creating trouble, that's all. And they are claiming, the foolish Darwin's theories, they also claim that monkey is our forefather.

Journalist: Is that true? Do you believe that?

Prabhupāda: No, I have told you already, the evolution. The monkey is not our forefather, but in the evolutionary process we came through monkey. That is a fact. Because that is an animal, so we have to pass through three million varieties of animal's body. So monkey is one of them.

Journalist: When did we stop becoming the monkey and start to become a man?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that depends. By nature's course, you automatically come to human body. Now, in the human body it is a junction, whether you want to make further progress and if you want to go back again to the cycle of the birth and death and the evolutionary process. That is to be decided by you. If you want to go to God, you can go. And if you want to become again a monkey, you can do that. That will depend on your work. Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Ambarīṣa: Actually they make perfumes from flowers.

Prabhupāda: Flowers, yes. That is... But not you take some dirt and extract the flavor. Then I will know that you are scientist. (laughter) (break) ...the vast water, but they cannot make it sweet. That you will have to depend on God. The water is, actually is taken, and it is made sweet. So how they can deny the hand of God?

Harikeśa: They have some water distillation plants now.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. He may distill one pound of water. That does not mean that... Why they are unnecessarily proud and denying the authority of God? How foolish they are. Therefore I don't like them, the most heinous type of atheist, not gentlemen. (break) Whenever they hold some conference they say, "Don't talk of God. Then you cannot come to the conference." Do they not? What is that principle?

Bali-mardana: Yes, yes, they do that. There was a conference on biology and evolution, and they made a rule at the beginning of the conference that "Whatever we discuss from now on is all right except that we will not discuss about God or anything, any divine factor of creation.

Prabhupāda: Just see how much atheist they are. Shameless atheist. Other atheists, they have got some shame. But these people are shameless. Shameless.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: They have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is father, there is no meaning of the word son. Unless there is husband, there is no meaning of the word wife. This is the relative world, and they are accepting this relativity. So how they can deny? As soon as you "temporary" say, you must accept there is eternity.

Bahulāśva: We were telling him that although everything is changing, he was still existing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, existing, but why you are in change? That is the question. "I am existing," that we say, but we are trying to solve the problem of changing. But this changing is not very happy, to die and again accept another body and remain to, in the womb of the mother to develop that body in an airtight condition. So why these foolish persons do not take it as very miserable? And with the risk of being killed by the mother. Nowadays their abortion and killing. So is it very nice life, that you die and you enter into the mother's womb to develop another body? And that also not secure. Is that very nice life? (break) Write many articles on this subject matter and prove them that "You are all fools." (break) ...major problem, they have left aside.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: I think here in America that people probably criticize because they're ignorant, and I hope to...

Prabhupāda: That "American" that I have discussed. Those who are in the bodily concept of life, they are not even human being. They are animals. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). One who takes this body, "I am, I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian," they are animals. They are not even human being. When you deny, that "I am not American, I am not Indian, not Englishman. I am not this body," then he is in the spiritual body. That's all. And so long he will identify that "I am this body, and because my body is American, therefore I am American," that is animal life. That is not even human life. So that is going on all over the world, identifying the body as self. "I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian." The whole United Nation is based on this conception. So where is the unity? If you are thinking as "American" or "Indian" or "Pakistani" or "German," so where is the question of unity? But they have manufactured a false method, United Nations, by lecturing. Just like if you bring a dozen of dogs and ask them, "Live peacefully," will they live peacefully? They will bark, "Ow! Ow! Ow!" So this is going on. If you keep them as they are, dogs, how you can expect unity? So they should not remain as dogs. They should come to become human beings, then there is question of... But they want to keep them as dogs, and at the same time, they want to unite. Therefore it is unsuccessful. Is it not? Is it not unsuccessful?

Dr. Gerson: I couldn't hear.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That depends on your management, how you are raising the children. If they are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is all right. So far bodily defects, you might find. But we are denying from the very beginning, "I am not this body." So by finding some bodily defects how you will decide about the spirit? Because spirit is not this body. You cannot conclude that because there are some bodily defects, therefore he has got spiritual defect. That is not right conclusion. The same example: "because there are some dirty things in the Ganges, the Ganges is no more good." That conclusion is wrong.

Dr. Gerson: There has been a lot of bad propaganda that the children at Gurukula are unhappy and that they're not developing normally as children or human beings, and I would like to overcome that propaganda by showing that they are.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that the managers of the Gurukula, they should take care of. But if they follow the instruction which I have given for conducting Gurukula, then there is no question of... What is the general defect they are finding out?

Bahulāśva: No, they are not finding... They are just making up these defects, Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing they say is that the parents are not allowing the children the freedom to choose whether they want to be trained in this way or not. They are forcing the children to be trained in a very limited view, only Kṛṣṇa.

Bahulāśva: And they say that by repetitive chanting...

Prabhupāda: That means they do not know Kṛṣṇa means everything. That they do not know.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in our material contaminated state when we act in a foolishly or mad, then we call that tamas, or our ignorance, but in the spiritual sky when the living entity is in his pure state of consciousness, what acts..., Does something act upon him to make him illusioned at that point also?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense. They did not allow the four Kumāras to enter. That was their fault. And the Kumāras became very sorry. Then they cursed him that "You are not fit to remain in this place." So we sometimes commit mistake. That is also misuse of independence. Or we are prone to fall down because we are small. Just like small fragment of fire. Although it is fire, it is prone to be extinguished. The big fire does not extinguish. So Kṛṣṇa is the big fire, and we are part and parcel, sparks, very small. So within the fire there are sparks, "Fut, Fut!" There are so many. But if the sparks fall down, then it is extinguished. It is like that. The fall down means material world, there are three different grades: the tamo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and sattva-guṇa. If the... Just like the spark falls down. If it falls down on dry grass, the grass becomes ablazed. So the fiery quality is still maintained, although it is fall down. On account of the atmosphere of the dry grass, it again makes another fire, and the fiery quality maintains. That is sattva-guṇa. And if the spark falls down on the green grass, then it is extinguished. And the dry grass, if, when the green grass becomes dry, there is chance of again coming to the blazing, but if the spark falls down in water, then it is very difficult. Similarly, the soul, when comes in the material world, there are three guṇas. So if he contacts with tamo-guṇa then he is in the most abominable condition. If it falls down with rajo-guṇa then there is little activity. Just like they are working. And if he falls down in the sattva-guṇa, then he at least keeps himself in the knowledge that "I am fire. I do not belong to this dull material." So therefore we have to bring him again to the sattva-guṇa, brahminical qualification, so that he can understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. I am not this matter." So then his spiritual activity begins. Therefore we are trying to bring him to the platform of sattva-guṇa, means to give up the business of rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa: no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, so many no's, to deny him the influence of material qualities. Then, if he is situated in the sattva-guṇa, then he remains on the platform of... When he remains on the plat..., sattva-guṇa, then the rajas-tamaḥ, the other base qualities, cannot disturb him. The base quality, the platform of base quality is this: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Where do they have any example that matter has given rise...

John Mize: This. They point to us. They deny a soul. There is simply matter, the brain, that generates consciousness.

Brahmānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Rāmeśvara would like to show you some paintings. They are bringing the book to the printer this evening.

Prabhupāda: All right. I am coming. (break)

Rāmeśvara: "...and uninterrupted in order to completely satisfy the self."

Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately. The Indian culture was checked by the caste brāhmaṇas, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the Hindus." Therefore it was not spread. Such a great thing, philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, remained covered because they thought it is meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, or those who came out of India, they misinterpreted in a rubbish way. And now it is being presented as it is, it is becoming effective. Therefore apratihatā: nothing material can check its progress. Unless one voluntarily refuses it, there is no checking. Some other professor was to come?

Brahmānanda: Yes, but he did not come.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Pore: In that illustration is Kṛṣṇa the sunshine or is Kṛṣṇa the sun?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the person. God is ultimately a person. And then, by His another potency, He is situated everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramānu-cay... He is situated within the atom also. That is called Paramātmā, Supersoul. And He is situated in His impersonal, the whole material creation or any creation. The example is given just like fire. Fire is one place but its heat and light is expanded to mines. Just like the sun. It is a fire light, but heat and light is expanded throughout the universe. So similarly, God is one and His energy is expanded everywhere. You can understand Him by His energies. Just like the government, the president, he is not here, but still, we are under government. Who can deny, that "I am not under government"? If you say, "I do not see who is president. What is the government?" That is not argument. You are. Simply you have to make your eyes to see how you are under Kṛṣṇa. That is required. But you are already.

Dr. Pore: But then God in His essence is Ātman, Brahman, not Kṛṣṇa. Is that what you're saying?

Prabhupāda: God is three. I have already given you the example. The sunshine, then sun globe, and the deity within the sun globe, they are all one; still, they are different.

Dr. Pore: And we as human beings, are we part of that too?

Prabhupāda: Why human being? Even the trees, plants, everyone. We are part and parcel of God.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So apart from religious sentiment, from economic point of view, cow-killing is not good. And from moral point of view it is not good because you drink cow's milk, so cow is your mother. According to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers.

ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī

brahmaṇī rāja-patnikā

dhenur dhatrī tathā pṛthvī

sapta eta mataraḥ smṛtaḥ

Ādau-mātā, real mother, and guru-patnī, the wife of guru or teacher, she is also mother 'cause teacher is father. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. She is mother. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhm..., rāja-patnikā, the queen, the wife of the king. She is mother. And then cow is mother because you are drinking her milk. Ādau-mātā guroḥ patnī brahmaṇi rāja-patnikā, dhenur dhatrī, nurse. Nurse is also mother because you suck the breast of the nurse. Therefore according to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers. So you cannot kill your mother. That is not very good philosophy. And who can deny, "The cow is not mother"? Who has got this audacity? You are drinking milk in the very morning. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill?—wholesale killing stop." And the Vedic literature is little liberal. It does not say, "Thou shall not kill," but, "You shall not kill at least cow." But the wholesale stop is not possible. The Vedic wisdom knows that. But you shall not kill at least cow. That is civilization. And the Christians are maintaining thousands of slaughterhouse. Is that very good proposal?

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the dhotī is not important then.

Prabhupāda: Not important. He can have dhotī, you can have pant, you can have... It doesn't matter.

Dr. Pore: It's part of the beauty of the world. It's interesting, it's fun, it's enjoyable, and I see no reason for denial.

Prabhupāda: There are so many thing enjoyable, but who is enjoying? That is the question. The real enjoyer and sufferer is the soul, not this body. When the soul is out of this body the body is no more enjoyer or sufferer; it is a lump of matter. The sense of enjoyment and suffering is there so long the soul is there. Therefore the soul is important. And if you can study the soul then you can understand what is God.

Peter: How do you know there's a soul?

Prabhupāda: Because you are speaking. Because you are inquiring, I know the soul. Because you are soul, therefore you are inquiring. As soon as the soul is out of your body, you cannot inquire anymore. Inquiry finished.

Dr. Wolfe: Can one say that soul and life are identical?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Identical... Life is the symptom of the soul. Because the soul is there, therefore life is there. And as soon the soul is not there, there is no more life. There is sun in the sky, and the light is there, sunshine. When the sun is set, there is no more light; it is dark.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the tenant can be easily evicted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner. (laughter) When he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away. "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. The same example, the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything, finished." That one has to believe, "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, (laughter) but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say, "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: So how much great brain He has got. He has created in such a way. So we have to understand like that, that "God is creator, so how perfect creator He is." In this way we have to study theology, item by item.

Dr. Judah: Yes. And God is also, they would say, the judge of man, judging man for his sins, and, of course...

Prabhupāda: So therefore man is subordinate to God. So why the people are denying the supremacy of God? Just like so-called scientists, rascals, they say, "There is no God." Immediately they should be taken as rascals. Why they should be given this title, "scientist"? He does not know who is his superior. They should be condemned immediately. Anyone who denies God, he is a rascal. He may be scientist, philosopher amongst the fools, but he is a rascal. He does not know his subordinate position. Immediately designate him, "You are rascal. You have no position because you do not know your superior." In this way you have to study. Then these rascals will be caught up, how great rascals they are, denying the existence of God. So we have to teach people like that, that "Don't follow these rascals." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Anyone who is not God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is immediately grouped amongst the miscreants, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means very meritorious. Just like these scientists. They have got good merit, but that merit is being applied for sinful activities. Just like expert thief, rogue. He has got merit, but he is applying the merit for sinful activities. And next word is mūḍha. Why they are misusing in this way? Because they are rascal, mūḍha, ass. You have seen yesterday film, the ass?

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all these social problems, then, in society are basically caused by them denying God. That is the ultimate...

Prabhupāda: No, because they are asses. Why don't you say like that? (laughter) Because they are big asses and people are following them. That is the misfortune. They are simply bluffing that "We are very great." Just like these scientists, they simply bluffing that "We went to the moon planet. We are doing this, doing that," and taking large salaries, but they are asses. And people are also asses. Therefore they accept, "Oh, he is a big man, cheating us very nicely."

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, theologians also say that God is the... (break) ...person He is.

Prabhupāda: So we can describe. (break) Let them take it. If they cannot describe, then take the description from us. We can give. That is knowledge. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. Why they should hesitate, "No, no, why shall I take from him? He is a Hindu." Or "He is a Muslim." What is this? Knowledge has to be taken wherever it is available.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayatīrtha: The people in general, they say that we are inhuman because we send our children at five to Gurukula. But they do not think that they are killing their own children before they have a chance to be born.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore we say there is no first-class men to guide. They are killing child within the womb. They are not given chance to come out and see the light. And we are putting children at five, so we are criminal. They are denying the right of birth. So these things are happening because there is no first-class brain. Yes?

Mr. Wax: In your many visits around the world do you see a desire among many men to try to improve, to become first-class men?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in your country there are so many.

Mr. Wax: Is there a great desire around the world? We here are a small group.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, everywhere. In Africa also.

Mr. Wax: There's hope for our world today?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise, why we are trying unless there is hope? We are not hopeless. If you train... If you can train a monkey to dance according to your will, why not human being? You can train even a tiger in the circus; he will act as you desire. It is the question of training. If the animal can be trained, why not a human being? You must know how to train. That knowledge is lacking, how to train. That we are giving, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So America is blind, and we are lame. So let us get on the shoulder of the American blind and give him direction, and both will be benefited. The whole world will be benefited. The America, blind, he cannot see where he is going. (chuckles) And for want of money we cannot make progress. So let the Americans take on the shoulder this lame man, and I will give direction, "Go this way. Go this way." Everything will be all right. Andha-kañja-nyāya. (break) ...nice building, churches, there is no use. Take our direction. Everything will be all right. (break) ...take our direction, what is the loss on their part? Hmm? What is the possible loss? Why they will deny to take our direction? (break) (out of car:) Tell them about this andha-kañja-nyāya.

Jayatīrtha: Prabhupāda was talking about the fact that the western world is blind and India is lame for lack of money. But by a combination there is very good effect. So if the western world takes us on its shoulders...

Prabhupāda: Especially America.

Jayatīrtha: Especially America. On its shoulders then we can give, Prabhupāda can give direction, and they can provide the resources. America will provide the resources, and we will provide the direction. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...mayor and the police officers, through them, try to approach higher authorities. And what is that? We met yesterday?

Harikesa: The public relations?

Prabhupāda: Ah, public relation. So convince them to..., the Americans should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on the shoulder, and because the Americans are blind, we shall give them direction on the shoulder, "Go this way. Go this way." So blind and the lame man combined together will perform a great task. (break) ...blindly, simply accumulating money, but they do not know how to utilize the money. They should take direction, authorized direction from us, and then it will be very nice. (break) ...not these concocted "isms." This "ism," that "ism," that "ism." Because it is, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. These all rascals are blind. They do not know how to direct. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). They are trying to adjust the world affairs blindly. They do not know. So let us combine. Let them come forward, take direction from us. After all, your money, my money, your intelligence, my intelligence—everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is giving intelligence. We must agree to take His good advice. Early morning till night, we are always thinking, "How people will be happy by Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" And they are coming here for rowing boat. You see? How blind they are! The human life, so intelligent life, and they are utilizing for rowing boat. How blind they are! Not a single moment to be wasted and they are simply finding out, "How to waste time?" (break) ...is "Crime, what to do?" "Hippies, what to do?" "Problems, what to do?" Why "What to do?" Here is a direction. Do like this." "No, sir, that I will not do." (break) ...to take photo.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: Would you say that women are inferior to men?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Woman reporter: Why?

Prabhupāda: By physiological condition. Just like you are. Your bodily features are different from the man's features. You cannot deny it. So according to the bodily features, the psychological condition and everything is there. How you can deny it?

Woman reporter: Do you think that I am inferior to you?

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of inferior or superior. Different. Now you take one inferior or superior. That is your calculation. But the bodily features are different. That is material. But spiritually, they are all one. Materially... Just like your bodily feature and a man's bodily feature is different. Now, so far question of inferior, superior, that is your calculation. But we say that by nature, a woman and man is different.

Woman reporter: What does this mean as far as whether women can do the same things that men can do, or whether women can lead people?

Prabhupāda: Well, women can bear children, but the man cannot. Is it possible to bear children? A man can become pregnant? Is it possible?

Woman reporter: No.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Well, by nature... No, as soon as you get children, you require support from the husband. Otherwise you are in difficulty.

Woman reporter: Many women have children and have no support from husbands. They have no husband.

Prabhupāda: Then they have to take support from others. You cannot deny that. The government is giving you support. But the government is embarrassed. If the husband supports the wife and children, the government is relieved of so much welfare contribution. So that is a problem.

Woman reporter: What happens when women support men?

Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand that you depend. The... After man and woman unite, there is children, and the man goes away, and you are embarrassed. The woman is embarrassed. Why? Why this is, is made possible? A man and woman unites, and the woman becomes pregnant, and the husband goes away. Then the poor woman is embarrassed with the child. She has to beg from the government. So do you think it is very nice thing? The Vedic idea is that woman should be married to a man and the man should take charge of the woman and the children independently so that they do not become a burden to the government or to the public.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you study different brain?

Woman reporter: I don't study them. I'm just telling you what the scientists say.

Prabhupāda: So scientists, the psychologist... As I was a student of psychology and our professor, a big man, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he said that "By studying the brains of man and woman, we have found the highest brain substance found in man, sixty-four ounce by weight." You may deny. This is the statement of a big psychologist. You can shake your head, but this is the scientific words by big psychologist. You can note down his name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, professor of psychology in the Scottish Churches College in 1918-20.

Woman reporter: Oh, dear, no wonder. 1918-1920, that means... O.K. I see now what you're thinking about. That was many, many years ago.

Prabhupāda: So can you give any proof since then that the woman's... In 1920... She does not take it?

Nitāi: She does not take it. Somehow they think that the brain is no longer small. If it was small, then, it is not small today.

Prabhupāda: But where is the proof...

Woman reporter: You do not believe that there has been advancement of science since 1920?

Nitāi: Well, if the brain has been ascertained as being half the size then why should it change by now? Should it change?

Woman reporter: Well, do you think that the Romans weren't as tall as men are today?

Nitāi: No, but the... But then, within fifty years there is not going to be any change in the brain.

Woman reporter: Not in the 1900's. Why do you use the technology that you use? You didn't have cars in those days, this television. Things have changed since 1920.

Prabhupāda: So what change has become? Can you give any evidence that woman is more powerful in brain than the man during these years? Can you give any evidence?

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Brahmānanda:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me."

Prabhupāda: As soon as one denies Kṛṣṇa is not God, then he comes within those categories: miscreant, rascal, lowest of the mankind, his knowledge is taken away by māyā, and he's a demon.

Prof. Hopkins: (laughs) That's a strong statement.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. If he does not know, then he must be amongst these groups.

Prof. Hopkins: What if someone says, "Śiva is God?"

Prabhupāda: He may say, but śāstra doesn't say.

Prof. Hopkins: So you...

Prabhupāda: Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "Nobody or no principle is greater than Me." Then who can be God? God is great. Here the great says, "There is no more greater principle than Me." Then who can be God? People generally know God is great. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Not only He says but it is confirmed by great authorities like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, all the big, big ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Vyāsadeva, authorities. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So how you can deny?

Prof. Hopkins: You refer to Rāmānujācārya as an important person. Where does he... Where does he fit into your, the Caitanya tradition? He's accepted as an authority. His, the Śrī Bhāṣya is studied, accepted...

Prabhupāda: Rāmānujācārya has written comment on Bhagavad-gītā. You know that?

Prof. Hopkins: No.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaṅkarācārya's theory is the ultimate, the Absolute Truth is impersonal. And one can imagine a personal form for the benefit of the worshiper.

Prof. Hopkins: But there are some worshipers of Śiva who would be personalists.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prof. Hopkins: You would deny that.

Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. They are pañcopāsana. Pañcopāsana means the ultimate, Absolute Truth is impersonal and Śaṅkarācārya recommended that you cannot worship the impersonal, so you conceive a personal form. So that he recommended five: the sun-god, Lord Śiva, Durgā, and Gaṇeśa, and? What else? And Viṣṇu.

Prof. Hopkins: Viṣṇu. Pañca (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But after you are per..., become, you are perfect, then you merge into the impersonal. That is Śaṅkara.

Prof. Hopkins: You would see all worshipers of Śiva as following basically that idea.

Prabhupāda: No, there are devotees. Just like we, we offer all respect to Lord Śiva. We consider Śiva as the best of the Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇavānām yathā śambhu. And we have got sampradāya from Śiva. He is considered one of the authority of Vaiṣṇavism.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: He is impersonalist.

Prof. Hopkins: You would say impersonalist.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. They say Śivāham, "I am Śiva." They are impersonalist. If you are Śiva then why you worshiping Śiva? That is impersonalist.

Prof. Hopkins: So any position which would deny the difference between the devotee and God, you would see...

Prabhupāda: He is impersonalist.

Prof. Hopkins: Is impersonalist.

Prabhupāda: The impersonalist theory is that I am now devotee. As soon as I become perfect I become one."

Prof. Hopkins: Oh.

Prabhupāda: That is their theory. Then there is no more difference. In the preliminary stage, when I am not perfect, I am worshiping some imaginary form of God. But when I become perfect there is no need of worshiping, I become one with God. This is impersonal. Now, actually, the Supreme has no form so they recommend whichever form you like to worship you can select out of these five. But their destination is the same. So somebody likes "I worship Śiva," somebody says "I worship Gaṇeśa," somebody says, "I worship Durgā," and Sūrya, or somebody says, "I worship Viṣṇu." So this Vaiṣṇava is impersonalist. You'll find amongst smārta brāhmaṇas there are also some of them Vaiṣṇavas, but they are impersonalists.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is their theory. Then there is no more difference. In the preliminary stage, when I am not perfect, I am worshiping some imaginary form of God. But when I become perfect there is no need of worshiping, I become one with God. This is impersonal. Now, actually, the Supreme has no form so they recommend whichever form you like to worship you can select out of these five. But their destination is the same. So somebody likes "I worship Śiva," somebody says "I worship Gaṇeśa," somebody says, "I worship Durgā," and Sūrya, or somebody says, "I worship Viṣṇu." So this Vaiṣṇava is impersonalist. You'll find amongst smārta brāhmaṇas there are also some of them Vaiṣṇavas, but they are impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: So you would... You would say that those, those smārtas say, and I know smārta brāhmaṇas who are worshipers of Viṣṇu. You would say they still are impersonalists in some ultimate sense because at some point they would deny...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very difficult to pick them out. Most of the so-called Vaiṣṇavas, they are impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: Some, I suspect, are more Vaiṣṇavas than they are smārtas.

Prabhupāda: So, satataṁ kīrtayanto mām?

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Unless He is eternally there, then how the devotee will eternally, nitya-yukta upāsana, whom to worship? Nitya-yukta upāsana. Unless Puruṣottama is everlasting Puruṣottama then where is the question of worship everlasting? So the Māyāvādīs, they do not understand.

Prof. Hopkins: Well, would you... Do you equate then the impersonalists and the Māyāvādīs? Are they the same?

Prabhupāda: Almost the same.

Prof. Hopkins: At some point I guess they would have to be almost.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prof. Hopkins: At some point I suppose they would almost have to be because to be an impersonalist you would have to deny the ultimate reality of phenomenon, which would make you a Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: They accept this form of God as māyā. Therefore we call them Māyāvādī.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, there may be others who are still advanced. Therefore the most advanced is God. This should be the psychology. As we see there is difference between dogs and hogs and man, so go on. Search out. So when you find out the most intelligent person, then he is God. (break) ...parataraṁ nānyat. That is statement of Bhagavad-gītā: "No more intelligent. Here, ultimate. I am God." So from psychological point of view how they can deny God?

Yadubara: No one is teaching that in this big university. Therefore the students are very discouraged, depressed.

Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Paramaḥ, paramaḥ means the Supreme. Our definition of God is that supreme in every respect. What man can do, the dog cannot do. What the dog can do, the cat cannot do. What the cat can do, the rat cannot do. So we see so many differences. Therefore there must be others who are more intelligent than man. That is demigod. And there must be others most intelligent than the demigods. In this way when you come to the final, that is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Go on finding out more, more, more. When you come to the final, that is God or Kṛṣṇa. So we take instruction from Him. Therefore we are better than the so-called university professors.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what effects are the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement having on the Christian-Judaic culture or the traditional religious culture?

Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Religion means these things, wherever these things are there, that is religion, these enquiries. This is the subject matter of Vedānta-sūtra, where it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about the Supreme." So that is religion.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Reporter (1): Some of the objections are that the followers of the Hare Kṛṣṇa sect are, on the streets or in the airports, are bothering people.

Prabhupāda: The airport itself is a botheration, so much sound, so much accident. So why this little botheration they cannot tolerate? That means intolerance. It is full of botheration, and because we are chanting, they very much disturbed? We don't chant in the airport, but we ask people that "Here is a very good book. You will benefit. If you like, you can take." So what is the wrong there? Tell me what is the wrong? If I give you something very nice, is that, I mean to say, wrong? You read any book. We have got fifty books. You find out any fault in that. If we are distributing something, bad literature which is against the social welfare, then you can object. But you see. Bring all our books here, and you will see. Any page you open and you will find something good. Why you are denying to distribute such literature for the benefit of the people in general? What is the wrong there?

Reporter (1): One of the things that people say is that the devotees are asking for donations, not just distributing books but asking for money, that that's a bother.

Prabhupāda: But he pays. If he feels botheration, why does he pay? One who feels botheration, he does not pay. But one who thinks that "Here is a nice book. All right, let me take it," why you take this botheration? If it is botheration, how they are purchasing? They are paying their money, hard-earned money. Do you think they are bothered at the same time they pay? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Oh. About?

Bahulāśva: He said that from his scientific studies he is feeling frustrated. So he made a public statement that he is going to give them up for studying God. He says that he feels that everything indicates in the universe that there must be a supreme intelligence behind the workings of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Very intelligent man. He is intelligent. As soon as one denies the existence of God, immediately he comes within the category of four classes of men: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind and knowledge taken away by māyā.

Bahulāśva: The four classes that never surrender unto Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Or do not admit the existence of God.

Paramahaṁsa: To assume that there is no God is basically nonscientific.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Because they're denying an entire field of study.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they are rascals.

Yadunandana: The reason why the western world is so much involved in science is because the religions that have been presented here in the West have cheated the people economically...

Prabhupāda: No, why cheated? The Christian religion says God created.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But everyone wants sunshine. Why in one place denied, and one place there is sunshine? You are not free. Even though you want sunshine, there is no sunshine. So how you feel free? You bring sunshine. But that is not happening. There is superior arrangement. So to accept that superior arrangement, that is real business, not to declare freedom falsely. That is not possible. If I say, "I am free from the law-abiding process, law given by government; I am free from the law of the government," that is not possible. If you become outlaw, then you will be arrested and put into jail. So what is the use of declaring that "I am free from the government laws"? There is no freedom. Whatever little freedom is given to us, if you utilize it properly, that is very nice. If we unnecessarily declare that "I am free from any obligation," that is madman's proposal. That is the mistake of the modern man, that, especially in the Western countries, unnecessarily they are declaring freedom in so many ways. Unnecessarily. He is not free, but he is declaring. That is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, I think, or in some other. No? Prema-vivarta. Yes, there is a book, Prema-vivarta

piśācī paile yena mati-cchanna haya

māyā-grasta jīvera se daśā upajāya

The freedom is declared by persons who are completely under the clutches of māyā. He declares freedom. And he is so much haunted by the ghost māyā that he thinks his bondage as freedom. Just like a drug-addicted person or drunkard. He is thinking, "I am free." He lies down on the street sometimes in madness: "Who can forbid me?" You have seen madmen lying on the street... I have seen it, all traffic stopped. So this kind of freedom has no meaning. It is involving oneself with the strict laws of māyā. There is no freedom. And just like a child. If he becomes free from the parents, it is not good; it is dangerous. His life is at risk. If a child without the help of the parents go on the street, is... That freedom is nice? That kind of freedom. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Whatever little freedom you have got, just surrender that freedom to Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). (to someone:) You can come forward.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: "Cheerful attitude." If cows know. They have got intelligence that "We will be killed." Therefore they are not supplying sufficient milk. They cannot, just like if your mind is full of anxiety, you cannot work fully. So because they are denied this cheerfulness, you are getting less milk. If you keep them cheerful, they will give more milk. This is nature's economic development. Artificially you cannot increase the production of milk. But according to the instruction of scripture, if you keep them cheerful without any fear, they will deliver double milk. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that cows should be protected in the human society. If you want to eat meat, you can kill insignificant, small animal, but don't kill cows. There are other animals-hogs, pigs, goats, lambs or birds, so many, fish—if you are at all interested in meat-eating; but don't kill cow. Find out this verse from Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Those who are vaiśyas... Economic development... Vaiśya means economic development. They should produce ample food grains and give protection to the cows. Just like our Kṛṣṇa's life, His foster father was a vaiśya. So he is keeping so many hundred thousands of cows, and Kṛṣṇa was entrusted to take charge of the calves, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So although They were very rich father's son, still They were taking the calves in the forest for tending in childhood. Still... You have seen in Māyāpur? The small children, they are taking care very nicely of the cows. After all, it is animal. The small child has got a stick, and he has been trained up how to allow them to graze. They have done. So according to Bhagavad-gītā... But that is very nice, that economic development means you produce more food grains and more milk. Then it will solve all posit... There will be no scarcity of food or happiness. Our, these Kṛṣṇa society young boys and girls, they have prepared so many nice things from milk. It is nutritious, very palatable, every..., everything. And we take food grains, fruits, milk preparation, that's all. That is very easily available. You can get enough fruits if you cultivate trees and plants.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Professor: If you know who is God, accept it?

Prabhupāda: If you know what is God, then you will accept Kṛṣṇa is God.

Professor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: If you do not know actually what is God, then you will deny. Or if you deny, then present who is God, if you know. Then you will have to say, "I do not know what is God." So anyone who is trying to study religion and God, they should try to understand our philosophy, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Satsvarūpa: The professor says they have the Bhagavad-gītā in his college.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You have got this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?

Professor: Yes, in the library.

Prabhupāda: You can...? You have read our this Bhagavad-gītā?

Professor: I have read it, yes.

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic understanding, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). You understand Sanskrit? No. Kṛṣṇa... there are description of the incarnations. There is name of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is summarized.

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: ...self-independent, or self dependent.

Bhāgavata: If we build up enough trade, tourist trade, like that in the guesthouse, then Māyāpur can maintain itself very easily.

Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...of the modern civilization, they are thinking that having such nice house, nice motorcar, nice road, nice machine, nice dress, nice woman, they will be happy. This is advancement of civilization. What is this? Don't drink, don't smoke, no meat, simply denying, denying? This is civilization. They think "This is practical. And after death who is going to take care?" Bhasmī-bhutasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "When the body is finished, burning into ashes, who is coming, and who is responsible?" This is atheistic civilization. (break) ...artha-maninaḥ. External energy, that is everything. Within the body there is the soul. They deny it. There is no soul, body is everything, and enjoy bodily enjoyment. That's all. And our philosophy immediately condemns that "Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13); he is animal." So this is a park?

Indian man: A small park.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dakkha ta. (Hindi) From there you have to take it. Sadhana. On the bottle it is written there. (Hindi exchange with someone) They will never take seriously your Māyāvāda philosophy. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa aparādhī. They are offender to Kṛṣṇa, all these Māyāvādīs. And in Vṛndāvana this Māyāvādī philosophy has become very strong. Even the so-called Vaiṣṇavas, they are also... (Hindi) Buddhist, they say that there is no God.

Indian man: They can't believe God.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they deny. Therefore we call them atheist. But these Māyāvādī, they take the shelter of Vedas and they preach the same philosophy. "Yes, brahman-nirakara." (Hindi) ...don't believe in God... (Hindi) For the time being, Śaṅkarācārya might have said something like that to turn the Buddhists again to Vedas, but that is temporary. But they have taken it all true. (Hindi) ...eighty-five years they are working. They have no position. (Hindi) What is that? TM?

Brahmānanda: TM, Transcendental Meditation.

Prabhupāda: And what is the items they say?

Brahmānanda: No philosophy, no belief, no restrictions.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see. He advertises. Mahesh Yogi.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhṛṣṭaketu: But if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme and I should surrender unto Him, then why is it so hard to find out this knowledge? Why is it that only in the human form of life... Why is it so difficult to come to this knowledge if...

Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal. For rascal everything is difficult. Easy thing is made difficult by rascals. That is the proof that you are rascal. By nature one is supposed to surrender to the parents. This is easy. Why do you do not do this? This is natural. Just like you have surrendered to me. Why? Because you think I am superior, you have to take knowledge from me. So if you have to accept some superior for your guidance, how you can deny surrendering? You see, brahmacārī, he is being taught daṇḍavat śīraṣi, by touching the head. Yesterday we were talking of that brahmacārī? That is the instruction. Who is this boy?

Harikeśa: He's Kuṇḍali. He just came from New York.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He just came from New York. He's from the West... He's a Commonwealth citizen. He's from the West Indies. He says he'll stay in India for the rest of his life.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. So you are going to the magistrate? You have calculated?

Saurabha: Ten thousand bags.

Prabhupāda: Ten thousand bags. No, I wanted to construct this building with bricks.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (1): What is alternative? What do you do when...

Prabhupāda: No, no, alternative, that alternative will not correct. That is the defect of Gandhi's movement. He is supposed to be reading Bhagavad-gītā, but he has never said, recommended, Kṛṣṇa worship. That is the defect of his education. Rather, he denied the existence of Kṛṣṇa. "I don't believe if any person as Kṛṣṇa ever lived." This is his concept. Gandhi has written in his life that while his father was dying he was enjoying sex with his wife. You know that?

Indian man (2): Gandhiji?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has written it.

Indian man (1): It is, after all, only...

Prabhupāda: No, no. After, he became a great sage. That is all right. But in the beginning everyone is subjected. Which way we shall...

Kartikeya: We can go straight.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Brahmānanda, you just take an idea. We shall construct Gurukula in this pattern.

Brahmānanda: This building here, double story.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Double or three-storied.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: In the Bible there are so many things that were... about the world that were mistakes, and then, by their scientific knowledge, they found the real fact. Like they say the earth was flat...

Prabhupāda: Bible may be wrong, but we are talking generally. So if you are scientist, you can say the right thing. But why should you deny God?

Brahmānanda: Well, if the book of God has made mistake, then we don't have any faith...

Prabhupāda: Book of God... Then throw it. Kick it out. But I say that you are scientist. How you can deny God? That is our propaganda. The so-called book of God, you throw away. But you are scientist. How can you deny the existence of God? Why you are misleading? Bible misleading, that's all right. Why you are misleading? That is our point.

Cyavana: For so many centuries they took the Bible to be the authority.

Prabhupāda: All right, throw it away. You are scientist.

Cyavana: They won't.

Prabhupāda: You are a scientist. How you can deny God? Then what kind of scientist you are? The Bible has done wrong. Throw it away. I have no objection. But you are scientist. How you can deny God? And that is our point. Come to this logic, that "How we can deny God?" You are speaking that from chemical combination life is formed. Do it in the laboratory. You cannot do it. Why you are propagating false propaganda? What kind of scientist? Then you are also to be kicked out. If Bible is to be kicked out you are also to be kicked out. Why you are claiming your position? You prove first of all. You combine chemical and produce a life. And you are making false propaganda, so you are to be kicked out. They say, "We shall do in future." And what is the future? Then why you are at present making false propaganda. Wait for the future. Post-dated check. "In future I shall pay." Who will accept this check? Any nonsense will accept.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (4) (Indian man): Do you think, Swamiji, that man can become perfect?

Prabhupāda: That is the chance of a human being. Therefore in the human society there is school, college, education, culture, not in the animal society, because they can be made into perfect, not the animals. So if they are denied proper education, that is the greatest harm. They got the opportunity, and the authorities are not giving them their opportunity.

Guest (4): No, but do you mean the perfectness is to become God or to become the man? Then I want...

Prabhupāda: You never become God.

Guest (4): What does perfectness mean?

Prabhupāda: Perfect means to become godly.

Guest (1): Can you be interested directly in politics?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa was in politics. So He instructed Arjuna to fight. This is politic—for a good cause. When Arjuna denied that "Kṛṣṇa, I am not willing to kill my, the other side, my brothers and my uncles," He chastised him that kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "How you are talking like non-Aryan? What is this nonsense?" He... Kutas tvā. First of all... Find out.

kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ

viṣame samupasthitam

anārya-juṣṭam asvargyam

akīrti-karam arjuna

(BG 2.2)

Anārya. Anārya. He has said anārya. Ārya means advanced. Anārya means less advanced.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: They have so many doubts.

Prabhupāda: What is the doubt? Doubt means they cannot drink, they cannot continue slaughterhouse, they cannot continue brothels. That's all. This is their doubt, that "How these things will be maintained? This is our life." That is doubt, and that is the difficulty. As soon as we say, "No this," oh, they are in danger. Even Marquis of Zetland, "Oh, it is impossible to give up. This is our life." There is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. They cannot think of, especially the Westerners, that without these things one can live. So many, our disciples, left. Rāyarāma left: "Oh, Swamiji is denying the preliminary necessities of life." This is the preliminary necessities of life: illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling. They cannot think that a man can live without these things. Therefore people are wonderful, that "How he is turning these Europeans, Americans to this standard?" That is their wonder. Nobody can think of, that these things can be given up and one can avoid it. It is dream. Your government, American government, is also surprised that "We have spent so much money for stopping this LSD, and this man by saying his disciples, they are giving up." Judah has also mentioned that. That is their surprise—"How these things can be given up? It is impossible."

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's in the American Constitution that all men are created equally.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real idea!

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they complain that "If all men are created equally, then each man will have equal opportunity."

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can become a brāhmaṇa. Equal oppor... We are giving. Any man, he may be caṇḍāla but we give them opportunity: "Come on, you become a brāhmaṇa." We don't deny: "Oh, you are coming from a caṇḍāla family. You cannot become brāhmaṇa." No. We don't say that. We give equal opportunity. (break) ...is that before this movement, really Vedic culture was never broadcast. Therefore they are finding somewhere contradiction, something astonishing. But Vedic culture is meant for the whole world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It has been misrepresented.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...the other day, before Mr. Nanda, that how brāhmaṇa can be from any family. He did not know. No rascal informed him before me. Therefore he was a little surprised. He was also mixed with Anandamaya, this māyā, that... And nobody informed him. He was kept in darkness. That was the first time that he could understand that cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13)—brāhmaṇa can be prepared from anywhere. The whole India is under the impression that brāhmaṇa can be prepared..., brāhmaṇa is manufactured in India and the son of a brāhmaṇa is a brāhmaṇa.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Then what did he say?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't reply.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it. This is going on, that God means order-supplier. "Whatever I desire, if You are God then You supply me. Otherwise I reject You." What they will understand, intimate relationship with God, to serve Him as father, as mother, as friend? What they will understand, these rascals? It is not possible. They have no idea of God. Therefore they cannot understand. God is asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "What is this?" They cannot understand. Therefore they misinterpret. What is this?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is, er... This is one park, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There is less wind here than on the beach.

Prabhupāda: No, we can go to the beach. What is that? If it is closed... (break) (Out of car:) The Indians are also coming to that point. The beginning is the rascal Vivekananda. He says, "Where you are searching God? Don't you see so many gods are loitering in the street, poor? Better you serve them. Why do you go to the temple?" This is their propaganda. That means no conception of God. The Ārya-samājīs also, they say, "There is no God in the temple." So in India the Jains, they also say, "There is no God." The Buddhists, they also say, "There is no God." The Christians, they have got very vague idea. So where is God? No God. It is only we are crying, "Here is God." Otherwise, whole world, they are trying to banish God, the Kaṁsa's policy, "Kill God," whole world, the Communists, total. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a way to go down to the right over here, to walk.

Prabhupāda: No, we can walk on this. This is nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is okay?

Prabhupāda: This is open. We can walk. (break) Nirākāra, impersonalist, "God is formless"—that is another way of denying God, gentlemanly way of denying God. "Yes, there is God, but He has no head." (chuckles) What kind of God? "He has no head. He has no tail, He has no leg, He has... He cannot see. He cannot eat." Then what He is? This is another way of denying God. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...reasonable to put forward the argument that if man can do all of these things, then God must be able to do at least those things plus more.

Prabhupāda: No. God has no head. Then what can he do?

Devotee (2): I asked one lady, she said, "God wants to test your faith that... Ultimately He has no form, but He wants to test your faith to see if you..."

Prabhupāda: No, how He'll test? He has no head. How He'll test? Unless one has got head, how he can act with brain? Where you get this idea that one has no head, still he has got brain? Where you get this idea? Hm? The brain substance is within the head. This is our experience. So where do you get this idea that He has no head and still He has got brain? Hm? What is the answer?

Harikeśa: They will say that God is man's conception.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) (in car:) ...ments are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam since the last five thousand years, and these people have become civilized for the last three hundred years, and we have to accept their statement or the statement which is made five thousand years at least? At least they discussed or they had some knowledge. You cannot deny that. They're giving description of all the planets, where it is situated. At least they had discussion. So they were uncivilized?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The moon that we see in the sky...

Prabhupāda: The same moon.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That same moon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And there is fire, blazing fire, just like the sun. But it is surrounded by cool atmosphere. Therefore it is pleasing. Heat coming through cool atmosphere, it is pleasing. This is the statement. What do they know? They cannot explain why it is so brilliant. We explain, "There is firelike flames; therefore it is brilliant." They say that every planet looks like that. That's not a fact. Then all the planets together, why they cannot illuminate this earth at night? Only the moon is required.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The difficulty arises in... We say, well, you have to grow old. And then we say the moon is so high above the sun. So...

Prabhupāda: So how can you deny it? First of all tell me. You have not gone there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I haven't gone, but the argument...

Prabhupāda: No, no. The scientists. I challenge that he has not gone there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (to someone:) Pay your obeisances.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. I have not gone, you have not gone, but I have got this authentic literature; you have nothing. So my position is better than yours. You are fool. You are befooled because you are simply contemplating. But I have got a definite literature, information. So my position is better than yours. Whose car is it? Oh, some of them are chanting? Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So in the Bhagavad-gītā, everything is explained very scientifically, not, I mean to say, a sentimental explanation, no. Logically, scientifically.

Prof. Olivier: The problem as I see it, of course, is how to get modern man to make this study in depth that is contained or outlined in this book. Especially when you are caught up in an educational system that denies a place to this very concept or even the philosophy of it, it's...

Prabhupāda: The modern education, they do not accept soul?

Prof. Olivier: Part of it in theory perhaps, and at the junior stage. But as they...as we advance, there is either a complete neutrality or a...just a simple rejection of these truths.

Prabhupāda: They do not accept soul.

Prof. Olivier: They accept the soul, I think so, but they do not care to analyze what it means.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And it is without analyzing this, what is the education? First of all this should be analyzed, what is the distinction between a dead body and a living body. That must be analyzed. Otherwise what is the education? We are dealing with this body. The body is always dead. Just like a motorcar with driver and without driver. The car is always a lump of matter. Similarly, this body, with the soul and without the soul, is a lump of matter.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Prof. Olivier: How to get him to voluntarily make this experiment, because this is what you were saying. Any scientific development rests on experimentation. The challenge to experiment...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: ...is there. God does not deny anybody the privilege of experimenting.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: And especially the youth at university, as I have always indicated and I tell them every year that they’ve got to experiment with the spirit to the same extent that they experiment in their laboratories with pieces of animal tissues or grass or what it is that they’ve got to analyze. But the real tragedy is that we have wandered away so far from the spirit and from the spiritual laboratory...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: Perhaps I can give you one or a couple of application forms that you could post to one or two people if they’re interested to apply. But this would be...

Prabhupāda: The Hindu community, I think they will accept us. I don’t think they will deny.

Prof. Olivier: But this would be a wonderful opportunity to bring the essence of Hinduism because from what I gather here from what you have said, this is not only the essence of religion from here but it is also the essence of Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The essence of Hinduism is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Prof. Olivier: Yeah. Therefore, one would like to see that the foundation of any course which is given here in Hinduism is a pure foundation, unadulterated. Therefore, based on the Gītā and the Upanisads and the Veda, all the Vedic literature, because that's all that's available. But the trouble is, you see, as it is, whether it is Christianity or whether it is...I don’t want to speak about Islam because I don’t know enough about them, but there is always the danger that you will get intellectual expositions...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, this is the idea of presenting...

Prof. Olivier: ...without the faith.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...presenting as it is. In other words, let them draw their own conclusions. In other words, it's not simply that you’re trying to flatter some people that they know so much if they don’t know. You’re trying to educate, which means uplift. So simply we present the principles that are here and let the people become elevated, educated.

Prof. Olivier: Well, are your book lists in here?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: We therefore submit our statement as it is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot say that we are cheating, because we are presenting something authorized, which is accepted. That's all. So we are not cheater. You may accept or not accept; that is your business. But we are presenting something standard. That's all.

Harikeśa: And it works.

Prabhupāda: Works or not works... Suppose it does not work, but still, it is standard. You cannot deny it. Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even the scientists are not in agreement over Darwin's theory.

Harikeśa: Actually that's why they say we are dogmatic, because it never changes. It doesn't develop.

Prabhupāda: How it can change? If it is correct, how it can be changed?

Harikeśa: They have no experience of anything...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have no experience of any truth which lasts.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.

Harikeśa: So they say we are dogmatic.

Prabhupāda: It is not dogmatic. When I say, "Next February will be very nice season," it is not dogmatic. It is by experience. Last February or many other Februarys I have experienced. Therefore I say, "Next February will be like this." That is not cheating, neither dogmatic. That is experience. That example I gave many times, that a child asks from the father, "Father, what is this?" The father says, "My dear son, it is microphone. If you speak, it will be recorded." So I take it from my father this is microphone. So I may be child, but when I say, "It is microphone," that is correct because I have taken from the authority. If a child is asked, "What is this? Do you know?" if I say, "Yes, it is microphone," that is correct. And if he, the man, says, "How do you know it is microphone?" "My father said." Then he is correct. I may be disqualified as a child, but because I have taken the words from my qualified father, it is correct. That is our process. I don't claim that I am very big man, but we repeat only what we have heard from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. You may accept it, not accept. That is your business. Therefore I named it Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are speaking simply what Kṛṣṇa has said, and we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. This is our business. Now, in the market so many things are being sold, not that everything has got all customers. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness may not be accepted by all. That is the case in everything. But what we are presenting, that is standard. We are not cheating.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Just see. Where is this? That is their science? Take money and do nothing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At least in the past when there was disease people would depend on God more. Now they depend on the doctors.

Prabhupāda: No, still they have to depend on God. Otherwise this man spent so much money. God denied, "No, your wife will not stay," and she had to die.

Brahmānanda: (break) ...when she went to London for treatment she became worse.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like vitamin pill—no hand.

Cyavana: Yes. No arms.

Prabhupāda: Simply they are cheating. There was one gentleman, English gentleman, Sir William Temple. He used to say, "I wish to die without a doctor. Don't bring doctor."

Cyavana: Without a doctor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Let me die peacefully. Don't bring doctor." I say also. Don't bring doctor when I am diseased. What is this?

Brahmānanda: (break) There's a chair if you would like to sit out here in the sun.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not so cold. Jaya. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Jñāna: We have been spending some time in a small town.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, hell or heaven, it doesn't matter. You induce people to chant. This is the sum and substance of devotee. It doesn't matter whether it is town, city, village. Wherever you go, you gather people and induce them by flattering them, by falling their, on their leg—some way or other, induce them. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya. This is the process shown by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, that "My dear sir, I have come to you with great humbleness, taking a straw in my mouth." Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya: "And falling down on your lotus feet." Kaku-satam kṛtva: "And I am trying to please you by so many flattering words." Kṛtva ahaṁ bravimi: "I have got some submission, if you'll kindly hear." So who is that man who will deny? If you fall down on his feet and take a straw and very humbly you pray, "Sir, I have got something to say if you kindly hear," who will deny? Who is that man? Even rogues, rascals, he'll also agree: "Yes, you can say what you want to do." This is the process. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kaku-satam kṛtva ca ahaṁ bravimi. "I want to submit. Will you kindly hear?" So any rogue, rascal, gentleman, big, small, learned—everyone will agree. Is it not, if you submit like that, that with great humbleness and flattering him, "Falling down on your feet, I want to submit something"? Huh? What do you think?

Jñāna: I think it's wonderful. Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: For us to... For our body to produce earth...

Prabhupāda: Now, just to understand that I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so the chemical and the water and the earth is coming from my body, so why not Kṛṣṇa's body, gigantic, the greatest, the chemicals, water, earth, water...? When Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo, "It is My energy," that's fact. Where is the difficulty to understand? We can... We are little sample of God, a small God. So if we can produce, this body... The spirit soul as I have described yesterday, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, it is very, very minute. From that minute spirit so much earth, water, fire is coming. So why not the supreme spirit, huge quantity of water, earth, will not come? How one can deny it?

Harikeśa: Well, but verbal analogies don't prove the scientific a fact.

Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. Verbal analogy is proof. A small quantity, a small quantity producing; large quantity, large quantity producing. Where is the verbal? This is practical.

Harikeśa: But that's assuming that God has a body, or there even is a God.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But that is... You are blind rascal, you cannot see. That does not mean that He has no body. You cannot see even the president's body here. That means president has no body? You rascal, you cannot understand. Because you cannot see the president's body, you cannot say, "No, the president is bodyless." That is your defect. You become qualified to see the president. You'll see he has got a body. Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has not body. But why he has no body? śāstra says. So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. Iśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda, Brahmā is saying. Why He has no body? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Still, he is scientist. He doesn't know. He is rascal, still he is scientist. (laughter) Just see. Contradiction. He doesn't know. Still, he is scientist. One word. He doesn't know anything, but he is scientist. Just see. (Hindi) And we have to hear him—the unfortunate position. We say that "Go for scientific knowledge to a person who knows, who has seen." And this rascal, he says, "I do not know; still, I am scientist." Then what he replied? He doesn't know?

Girirāja: But he's sure that they don't need God to explain it.

Prabhupāda: That he knows, how to deny God. That he is expert. And the newspaper reporter accepted this?

Girirāja: No. He didn't express his point of view, but you could see he wasn't satisfied.

Prabhupāda: That is the position. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Girirāja: Then he asked him about the future.

Prabhupāda: Future is darkness because these are scientists. He doesn't know; still, he is scientist. Then what is the future? Future is darkness, because a person who doesn't know, he has become leader. The same thing, andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If a blind man, he becomes the leader of other blind men...

Devotee (2): Actually it's sad that if someone says there is no God then that means that they...

Prabhupāda: He's a dog.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking not you but a scientist, so-called scientist. So what did he say? That "There is no need of God"?

Girirāja: Yes. He said, "We don't know where the elements came from that made the creation, but we know that we don't require God to explain it."

Prabhupāda: This is the reply. All the so-called scientists, their only point is how to deny the existence of God.

Dr. Patel: But how can you say, "All the scientists," sir? I strongly oppose this statement.

Giriraj: I have spoken to many...

Dr. Patel: I mean, all scientists

Prabhupāda: Majority.

Dr. Patel: Some of them.

Girirāja: I have spoken to many students coming out of the Indian schools, and they all say that "The universe was created by a chunk and it exploded," and they have no training that God is there behind everything that you see.

Dr. Patel: Everything is occuring by explosions. In our mind an explosion occurs, and we start believing in God. So that is not that, sir. I think they are misguided. How can anything happen without a supreme power?

Prabhupāda: If they are misguided, how they are scientists?

Dr. Patel: But we have all learned in the same schools of science, he, I and the rest, also scientists, here. We have learned the same way the science. But it all depends upon how he grasps it, how he thinks about it, how he understands it.

Prabhupāda: So that we can understand, that he is grasping like a fool. Therefore we call them "fools, rascals." There was a newspaper interview with a so-called scientist.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa is the strongest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration. So people were God-fearing, honest, simple-dealing. So "I have produced a hundred mounds of rice. The king, you can take twenty-five mounds. That is my obligation." And king is also satisfied. By distributing that grain, he maintains the whole government. The real difficulty is all these rascals, they are not sufficiently educated. They are mūḍhas. And they are trying to solve the problems. That is not possible.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Harikeśa: The unknown chemical.

Prabhupāda: Not unknown. It is unknown to you. But known to us. If it is unknown to you, you take, you know it from me. That is real knowledge. Why you persist that "It is unknown"? It should remain ever unknown? Why shall I take from anyone else? That's a fact. Either you answer what is that element which is missing so that the body is now dead. Simply your denial is obstinacy. That is dog's obstinacy. Then you are like a dog. You answer that: "This is the reason." Make experiment; prove it. Then you are right. So long you cannot do it, simply denying, that is dog's obstinacy. If you, as you say, there is no soul, it is chemical combination, so bring the chemicals and put him into life. Then your statement is right. You cannot do it and simply persist. This is doggish. You are calling a lump of matter your father, your child, your relative, and when the soul is gone, you say, "Oh, my father is gone." Why your father is gone? He's lying there on the bed. The same coat, pant, face, ear, eyes. Why do you say, "My father has gone"? What is this nonsense? So that chemical combination is your father? Bring your father again, chemical combination. Hmm? What is the answer? Some foolish, rubbish thing, presentation, will it be accepted as knowledge?

Harikeśa: Another point.... I just thought of. They say it's some chemical which is missing that's making life, yet, if the same chemical is there that's making life, what accounts for so many different varieties of life? If it's the same chemical, how is there so many different varieties from that same chemical?

Prabhupāda: Yes.