Expressions researched:
"Delhi"
|"New Delhi"
Interviewer: Where in India did you come from originally?
Prabhupāda: Oh, I was born in Calcutta. But after my acceptance of this renounced order of life, I am inhabitant of Vṛndāvana.
Caller: Of where?
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana. V-r-i-n-d-a-v-a-n. Vṛndāvana is a sacred place. It is about 90 miles south of New Delhi, capital of India.
Caller: Yes, yes, I see. One thing I just wanted to clarify, did you... are you are follower of Lord Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Elephants, there are many in India. Elephants, camels, horses also. Still there are many.
Devotee: Could we film on location, on the battlefield?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. The battlefield is still existing, Kurukṣetra. Yes. It is about hundred..., about within two hundred miles from Delhi. It is not far off. That, my red tape recorder is not replaced. Is it very costly now?
Devotee: I think so. Yeah. About five hundred dollars.
Prabhupāda: Five hundred dollars, that may be Japanese. The original is English.
Devotee: Oh, English? I thought it was German. English?
Prabhupāda: Yes. German or English. That is eight hundred dollars. It was very nice. Yes. I therefore used to keep daily in my compartment. I didn't allow to leave it here. How you are feeling, Jadurāṇī? All right? So I think we shall chant little Hare Kṛṣṇa and close this meeting. (kīrtana) (end)
Reporter: Well, they didn't take along the spaceship that they need that they...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, anyway, just like I am inhabitant of Vrndavana. Vrndavana, that is ninety miles off from New Delhi. The atmosphere is almost the same. So, if I could live at Vrndavana, I could live at New Delhi also. So if they stayed sixty miles off from moon planet how is it that they could not go further sixty miles? This is most ludicrous. At least, we cannot believe such things. Sixty miles is no much difference. It is almost in the same atmosphere.
Reporter: If the space program, either the Russian or the American program, which have plans to try to land on the moon and return safely, if this is successful, do you think this accomplishment would hurt the Kṛṣṇa movement in the United States? It would contradict Vedic...
Prabhupāda: Why? First thing is even they are successful, according to our principle, it is simply waste of time. Because we are not concerned even with the moon planet. We are trying to go to the planet of Kṛṣṇa from where nobody returns back to this wretched condition of life. So the wretched condition of life is as good in moon planet as it is in this earth planet. And do you know what is the wretched condition of life? Yes. The birth, death, old age and disease. This is the wretched condition of life. So you cannot avoid this wretched condition of life in the moon planet also. There is birth, death, old age and disease. But where we are trying to go by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no birth, death, old age and disease. So even there are, people are successful to go to the moon planet, what connection we have got there? We are not at all concerned with any planet where there is birth, death and old age and disease. Even in the highest planet of this universe.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Hrishikesh. Hrishikesh is also one of the pilgrimage. And there is similarly Kurukṣetra near Delhi. Still that place is there. And that is a place of pilgrimage from the Vedic times. In the Vedas also it is stated, kuru-kṣetre dharmam yajayet. If you want to function in a religious ceremony, just go to Kurukṣetra. So it is a place of pilgrimage. Now the name is there. The adjective dharma-kṣetra, it is from Vedic age. Then the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas, they are historical persons. The history is there, Mahābhārata. Then where is the question of interpreting Kurukṣetra as "this body," and the Pāṇḍavas as "the senses"? Where do you get this opportunity to interpret? So these things are going on. But we object, "Why should you interpret in that way when the facts are there?" That means Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. One has got his own philosophy. He wants to prove it through Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. There are so many interpretations, 664. Everyone thinks that "I can interpret in my own way." Why? Why this should be? We say, "No. You cannot interpret." Then what is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? The author of Bhagavad-gītā did not leave it for being interpreted by a third-class man. He is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. He said everything clearly. Why an ordinary man should interpret His word? That is our objection. Therefore we present Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. The MacMillan Company wanted to shorten. (Chuckling) Because they are merchants. They wanted to minimize. Otherwise the book was very big. They wanted to make it only four hundred. Therefore half of the ślokas was not nicely explained. But next time we are going to publish in large and revised edition of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We must explain everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is very, very high-class philosophy and theology. Social, political, science—everything is there. It is very nice. And everything is clear. It is explained by Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. We have not manufactured anything.
Guest (1): This is Times of India.
Prabhupāda: Bombay.
Guest (1): It is published from Bombay and Delhi both.
Haṁsadūta: Yes. I think in Bombay there was a large article.
Prabhupāda: What about? Favorable or unfavorable?
Haṁsadūta: It was an interview with the devotees, if I remember, with Gurudāsa.
Guest (1): The article, original article, was quite favorable. It was all praiseworthy and all that. That is why these two letters say that author of that article is unnecessarily being sentimental and this and that.
Rebatinandan: That was the Sunday edition of Times of India.
Haṁsadūta: November 8th.
Revatīnandan: The magazine section. Two page particle with nice pictures. You liked it very much.
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh, yes, yes. I remember. She is envious, that "Why two page advertisement, publicity has been..." That's all.
Guest (1): In London, they say, there are about twelve lakhs of Indians in London.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many Indians. In the street you will find it is just like ordinary Indian city. (Hindi)
Guest (3): He's my old friend.
Guest (4): We both are coming from Horir(?), leaving Delhi after... We are interested in this Gītā-jayantī Mahotsava, and we shall be more interested in you also. You are coming...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Guest (4): So this is (?) Kumar Sharma. He's an, a learned(?) man. He has brought this tape recorder. He has come to tape your interview. Last night we met Mr. Ja.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Guest (4): And he has permitted us to take your interview for our paper. So if you don't mind we shall ask some questions.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (4): And we'll finished before you go there.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. No, my men will go. Even if I am a little late, it doesn't matter. So you go there and join at night. Then I will come in.
Prabhupāda: Oh, evenings are... But evenings up to which date? Tuesday?
Guest (1): Up to the sixteenth.
Prabhupāda: Up to the sixteenth? Then probably on the seventeenth we may go. Not fixed up, but there is chance. That is chance because we are thinking of an appointment with the prime minister in Delhi by the eighteenth, so if that is fixed up, then we have to start.
Guest (1): (discusses date for engagement with Haṁsadūta)
Prabhupāda: Is there any engagement, for...?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: When?
Haṁsadūta: (discusses date for engagement with 1)
Yamunā: Fifteenth is the appearance day of His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.
Prabhupāda: Fifteenth is the appearance date? ? Oh, then we have to perform.
Devotee (4): ...national, just like the national...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.
Prabhupāda: You can say now, "If anyone wants to see us, please come at five o'clock, early in the morning." Then I shall see how much serious he is. Now I have decided to go to Delhi. Even Gurudāsa suggests rightly. All of us, we should go to Delhi.
Yamunā: It might be difficult to make arrangements, Guru Mahārāja. The place where Gurudāsa is presently staying is not equipped for ten people at present. We'll have to arrange.
Prabhupāda: No, we can arrange in the Birla's house. He has a nice dharmaśāla. You know Birla's house?
Yamunā: Yes. We were invited to stay there for ten days.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. So, who invited?
Devotee (3): One of the people connected with the temple has associated with us in Delhi and (indistinct) has invited us.
Prabhupāda: So first of all take information from the Pujari(?) in which train they have booked our seats for Delhi, and you write immediately one letter to Dhruva in Bombay and Tamal Kṛṣṇa also, that Dhruva may instruct the Delhi Birla's dharmaśāla to accommodate us immediately. So their dharmaśāla. It is Birla's dharmaśāla. First of all we have to see how they have made our seats.
Prabhupāda: No, it is a temple, very big temple.
Haṁsadūta: So we should book seats for Delhi on which day?
Prabhupāda: Seventeenth.
Haṁsadūta: Seventeenth you want to leave?
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the day, seventeenth?
Devotee (3): Today is the fourteenth.
Prabhupāda: No, day?
Haṁsadūta: Today is Monday.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Haṁsadūta: Seventeenth is Thursday.
Prabhupāda: Thursday?
Haṁsadūta: Thursday, seventeenth.
Prabhupāda: So Thursday, before afternoon, we shall start.
Prabhupāda: So Thursday, before afternoon, we shall start.
Devotee (3): You want to go by plane Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, I am asking one ticket for plane.
Devotee (3): You'll fly alone to Delhi?
Yamunā: The Delhi airport?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not difficulty. Ask Gurudāsa to take me. For two hours I can sit down. It goes direct to Delhi from here.
Devotee (3): No, it makes two stops.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.
Devotee (3): But the same plane.
Prabhupāda: Same plane. And you come, all, by train.
Haṁsadūta: Will we open a bank account here? Will we open an account in Indore?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation. The transcendental meditation means to think of Lord Viṣṇu.
Guest (3): These books will be available where?
Prabhupāda: These books are... Now we have some custom difficulty. Books are lying in the port, but we have some custom clearance permission difficulty. Just this morning we have received news from Delhi. Now everything is complete. So now we shall get the books, say, within a fortnight.
Guest (3): Within a fortnight.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): In Surat, unable to permanently enter in Surat?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you give us some place, we'll immediately open. Just like in Indore we had been. Somebody has given us a land. Not only land, but they are going to prepare a temple also there. And the residential quarters, we shall arrange to construct. So this land is about 400,000 square feet.
Prof. Kotovsky: Canakya. Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was a great politician, brāhmaṇa. And under whose name in New Delhi all the foreign embassies, they are flocked together. Yes. It is called Canakya Purī.
Prof. Kotovsky: Hm hm. Canakya Purī, yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: So this Canakya Paṇḍita was a great politician and brāhmaṇa. And as brāhmaṇa, he was vastly learned. He has got some moral instruction. They're very valuable, still going on. In India school children are taught. So this Canakya Paṇḍita, although he was prime minister, he maintained his brahminical spirit. He was not accepting any salary, yes, because for brāhmaṇas to accept salary, it is understood that he becomes a dog. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. He can advise, but he cannot accept. So he was living in a cottage, but he was prime minister. So this brahminical culture, the brahminical brain, is the standard of Vedic civilization. Just like Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti... You do not know. You cannot trace out the history, when Manu-smṛti was written. But Manu-smṛti is considered so perfect that it is the Hindu law. The Hindus are governed by Manu-smṛti. There was no need of passing daily a new law by the legislative assembly to adjust this social order. You see? The law given by Manu was so perfect that it can be applicable for all the time. This is perfect. Tri-kāla-jñāḥ. The word is there, tri-kāla-jñāḥ, past, present, future.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So where generally you stayed in India?
Prof. Kotovsky: Myself?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: Oh, I was run away in many places, about, in Delhi, in Delhi, in Rajastan, in Gujarat, Maharashtra, Bengal, Bihar...
Prabhupāda: In Bengal where you stayed ?
Prof. Kotovsky: In Bengal?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: I was in Calcutta, Shantiniketan...
Prabhupāda: Shantiniketan.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...Shantiniketan and in some town in 24 Parganas, in different small townships and villages also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I see.
Prof. Kotovsky: (laughs) Westernized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Westernized.
Prof. Kotovsky: Modern process of Westernization is going on in the world. But Prof. Srinivas...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...with the very grace (indistinct) of some anthropologists at Delhi University...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: I agree with him that a very interesting... Two processes. The process of Westernization among brāhmaṇa mainly and upper castes and so-called Sanskritization he calls the process of adopting some brāhmaṇa rituals, etc., by so-called low castes, even untouchables. Very interesting processes in India just now.
Prabhupāda: Now one thing... The other day I was speaking to some... Where I was? In Bombay, I think, I was speaking some respectable gentlemen that "Kṛṣṇa says:
Kṛṣṇa says, 'Even those who are low-born, pāpa-yoni—the striya, vaiśya and śūdra, they are also included—but by accepting Me, accepting my shelter, they are also elevated to the transcendental position.' Now, why the higher class of Hindu society, they neglected this injunction of Bhagavad-gītā? Suppose one is pāpa-yoni. Kṛṣṇa says that 'They can be elevated to the transcendental position if they accept Me.'
Prabhupāda: So call him so he can come here just now. He was talking seriously about "You please come immediately."
Śyāmasundara: I have his Delhi address too.
Prabhupāda: Now suppose the estimate is 250,000 pounds. So how much the bank may advance?
Mr. Arnold: I don't think the bank, in this state of, of, umm, the one at King Street, Hammersmith...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Mr. Arnold: The one at Kings Street, Hammersmith. I don't really think the bank will advance you anything. Umm, you see you've got nothing to mortgage.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Mr. Arnold: This is the first thing. You see, when we're talking of Kingsway Hall, you know, the big one, before, well here you had a bank on the site, and they were rather anxious to keep their premises, and consequently they would have loaned us money to retain their site. Any of these four that we're dealing with at the moment, there are no other banks or building societies on the site. This is what I think is, is absolutely imperative, that within the...
Prabhupāda: The bank will not be prepared to advance in such property?
Reporter: Person in the ordinary sense of the word, or...?
Prabhupāda: No. He is Supreme Person.
Reporter: Supreme?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like we are sitting here in Delhi City. Now here is Lalaji. He is supreme personality, mayor. (laughter)
Reporter: So we, we can see and feel and touch Him and be something also like...
Prabhupāda: No. I am taking for example India, the president is the supreme personality. The president is the supreme personality. You have to admit it. You may accept him or not, but officially you have to admit. So in this whole creation, cosmic manifestation, there must be some Supreme Personality. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid as ti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior personality than Me." And we accept it. There is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." So our knowledge is very easy. We don't make any research. Here is Kṛṣṇa says that He is the Supreme Personality—we accept it. That's all. It is very simple.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) That is the difference between man and animal. Animal cannot accept austerity. But man can accept austerity. That is the difference between. Just like there is a nice foodstuff in a confectioner's shop. So a man wants to eat it, but he sees that he has no money. So he can restrain. But an animal, cow comes, immediately he pushes his mouth in that. You can beat him with stick, it will tolerate, but it will do that. Therefore, animal cannot undergo austerity. (Someone else speaks inaudibly about volume of loudspeakers) Yes, yes, reduce. (break) Our austerity is very nice. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and Kṛṣṇa sends nice foodstuff, we eat. That's all. Why your people are not agreeable to such kind of austerities? Chanting, dancing, and eating nicely? (indistinct) I see austerity, call my mother.
Bob: What is that?
Prabhupāda: Suppose we have this nice foodstuff this mother has brought. So those who are not following austerities, they cannot expect. But because we are following austerity, Kṛṣṇa sends us nice thing. So we are not loser. When you become Kṛṣṇized, then you'll get more comfort than at the present moment. That's a fact. I am living alone for the last twenty years, but I have no difficulty. When, before taking sannyāsa, I was living in Delhi, these boys were taking care of me. Yes. So I had no difficulty, although I was living alone.
Prabhupāda: Now he is getting money.
Dr. Kapoor: Now he is getting money. The institution has been recognized by the government.
Prabhupāda: He is not here. I inquired.
Dr. Kapoor: Perhaps not. I don't know.
Prabhupāda: He's gone to Delhi?
Dr. Kapoor: He was trying to force me...
Guru dāsa: Bombay, I think.
Dr. Kapoor: ...force the professorship of his college upon me.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Kapoor: When I came here after my retirement...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I know that. (break) If you want, you can come sometime to European countries to our different branches.
Pradyumna: Adopted daughter. Step-daughter.
Prabhupāda: Adopted daughter, niece, we have practically seen. I knew one man, Gupta. Guru dāsa met him in Delhi. So he was old man, about four years younger than me, very rich man. So I used to visit sometimes his house. He was friendly. So one day I saw one young girl. So I enquired, "Who is this young girl?" "No, she is my adopted daughter. I have no..." He had no daughters, all sons, grown up. "So I have no daughter, so I have adopted her as my daughter." I thought, "That's all right." Some day after, one day I went there. I saw that his wife was not there. So his wife has left home on some complaint. And then I understood that that man was implicated with that daughter. So the wife, under protest, has left. There are many rascals who open girls' schools with the contract with the head mistress that she will supply young girls. Convent school. This is going on. So all these greatness are terminating in sex life and they are making arrangement, plan, and he says there is no plan. Even for his ordinary living he is making plan, and he says there is no plan.
Guest (2): Fight in a real..., sword, fight with swords?
Prabhupāda: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Rāmacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devāsura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don't say that fighting should be stopped. We don't say that. We don't say that becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi when there was not..., declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: "Swamiji, what is your opinion about this fight?" I said, "You must fight." And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, "You must fight." And that was published in big letters in... So we are not that kind of sādhu and Vaiṣṇava, that we don't take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.
Guest (2): Yes but if that is the case, you see, then the Muslim Mullah, or whatever you may call, says, "Fight all non-Muslims."
Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim... It is not the question of Muslims and Hindus. When there is right cause for fighting...
Guest (2): But what I mean is a Muslim Mullah can say all non...
Prabhupāda: Well, why you are making...? We are talking of philosophy. That is applicable to the Muslim or to the Hindus or everyone. When there is right cause of fight, one must fight. This is philosophy.
Devotee: How many days? Two days?
Prabhupāda: No, no. One day, two days, yes. Even if it runs fifty mile per hour, so from morning, early morning to noon, say six hours if we run, it's three hundred miles in the morning and three hundred miles in the evening, and stay at night. And then the next day three hundred miles, three hundred..., six hundred miles. Twelve hundred miles anywhere you go from Calcutta to Bombay, Calcutta to Madras, Calcutta to Delhi, within twelve hundred miles. Within two days from anywhere to anywhere you can go. India's length and breadth is not so wide as in your country. You have got... That is also not good roads, in your... But in Calcutta, to Calcutta-Bombay, Madras, Delhi, there are good roads.
Devotee: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Good roads. So we can go by road.
Pradyumna: No.
Prabhupāda: This is published by Macmillan. It is eleven hundred pages. They printed in July fifty thousand copies. That is finished. Now they are going to print second edition. Since 1968 they are publishing our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and every year they are getting one edition. From the beginning... I think this is the fifth or sixth edition and their business manager, trades manager's report is that this Bhagavad-gītā is increasing sale, others' dwindling, because it is presented as it is. We present Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead." We present Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me." We teach people, "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). We say, "You become Kṛṣṇa bhakta. You offer worship to Kṛṣṇa." We don't change anything. And therefore people are accepting. Adulteration, how long it will go on? You know very well. You are from Delhi. There is a Punjabi halwai (?), in the Chowry Bazaar. You know that?
Guest (4): No, I have heard about it.
Śyāmasundara: Well, we've been living in London last two years.
Ambassador: But here you're all living in the Delhi area, but you're going down to... What's the name of that place south of here?
Guru dāsa: Vṛndāvana?
Ambassador: Yeah.
Guru dāsa: We went.
Ambassador: Oh, you went?
Guru dāsa: Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Guru dāsa: They inquired about our Vṛndāvana trip.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Śyāmasundara: That's where Kṛṣṇa was born.
Ambassador: Oh.
Mrs. Keating: Where is that?
Ambassador: Ninety miles south of here.
Prabhupāda: Yes, ninety miles.
Prabhupāda: The poor man, unless he gets some income, he becomes (indistinct).
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He is not renounced. So let him (indistinct). So when you are going to talk to the Mahārāja?
Gurudāsa: I will be going today if he sends a car. Or if not, I think I will go tomorrow. But that means I cannot go to Delhi. But I don't think... I think Manasvi and Mr. Sarkar, the engineer, can handle this deal. It's just to see if they can give another allotment.
Prabhupāda: Not that everywhere you have to go. You go to the important business.
Gurudāsa: So which do you think is more important—this deal or the palace? I think the palace.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can purchase. But to get the palace it requires great tactful dealing.
Gurudāsa: Subala Mahārāja and I are going to Mathurā today to find out the position what they have done in relationship to this sanction, written sanction.
Prabhupāda: From Mathurā, then go to Bharatpur.
Prabhupāda: You have been in India?
Guest (1): Yes. Birla Mandir I stayed two years.
Prabhupāda: Birla Mandir. Delhi.
Guest (1): Delhi.
Prabhupāda: I see.
Guest (1): And initiated, and (indistinct) by Radhaswami.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Guest (1): And also see some Pondicherry, but never been (indistinct) this great river, Gaṅgā. (indistinct) Pondicherry (indistinct) evacuated...
Prabhupāda: You stayed in India for two years?
Guest (1): Yes, sir.
Guest (2): One year, one year in Pakistan, Lahore.
Guest (1): (indistinct) and only summer time evacuated because Lahore is north of it, Kashmir side. (indistinct) north.
Prabhupāda:Sir, you are by religion Mohammedan?
Guest (1): Pardon?
Guest (1): Yes, sir. So you have been already...
Prabhupāda: You become one of the life members of our society and you can go anywhere and stay there.
Guest (1): Like Birla Mandir or āśrama in India, āśrama...
Prabhupāda: In India, Calcutta, Bombay, Delhi have got branches.
Guest (1): Yes. Pondicherry, Rabindranath Ashram, Pondicherry. Nanda's Ashram(?), in Bangalore. Only Delhi I've been to āśrama (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: This is a cap, with this Japanese (indistinct)?
Guest (1): No, sir. National congress, national India. This is a (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Gandhi cap.
Devotee: Indian National Congress.
Guest (1): Indian National Congress Party, independent (indistinct) national pact with Indonesia ... hot.
Devotee: The Muslims wear the black one and he says it is very hot but this is cool.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: These are all oriental countries. Five thousand years ago this whole planet was India, Bhārata-varṣa. That we get from history, Mahābhārata. This planet name is Bhārata-varṣa.
Devotee (2): After King Parīkṣit, then it divided up, that soon after?
Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because... Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct). They wanted, "Why there should not be meat-eating?" But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Mohammedans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the..., what are these Mohammedans? The Mohammedans, they are lower class men, less than śūdra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it. But when the Mohammedans, that we will be on equal right, they, there is a (indistinct).
Devotee (1): So there's no spiritual motive.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was my intimate friend. So in their house, old Tīrtha Mahārāja went to beg some alms—they are very rich man. So, he informed me that "One nice sannyāsī came to our house," and he was invited, "in Ultadanga there is Gauḍīya Maṭha, so he has invited me. I wish to go there. Why don't you come? Let us go together." He was my very intimate friend. So at that time I was a little pessimistic (?), "I know all these sādhus there, I am not going." So he forced me, "Oh, why not come? Let us go." "All right, let us go." So I went to see His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura in 1922 in that Ultadanga building, and that time Prabhupāda was sitting on the roof. There was small house (indistinct) room, and we were welcome, because they thought Naren Mullik was very rich man and he has contributed some money. So, we went to see Prabhupāda, offered our obeisances. So immediately he said that "You are all educated young men, why don't you preach Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message throughout the whole world?" So I replied him, "Sir, we are dependent nation, who will hear our message? We can talk all these things after we get independence," because I was politically-minded at that time. So he refuted my argument. Certainly I was defeated, and I took his words very seriously, I appreciated. Then we were offered some prasādam, we came down, and my friend Naren Mullik asked me, "How did you like this sādhu?" "Yes, here is a sādhu in whose hands Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message is there, and it will be done. I think this is very nice." That was my appreciation. Then 1923, I resigned my post as manager in Bose's laboratory, and I accepted the agency of whole U.P., beginning from Mughalsarai (?) up to Delhi, and I made my head office in Allahabad. So I was always thinking, "Oh yes, I met a very nice sādhu." From the very beginning, that was my impression, that "I have met a real sādhu." So, actually the words, lava mātra sādhu saṅge sarva siddhi haya (CC Madhya 22.54), was actually... I perceived a kind (?) for a moment, and he impressed so much, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, that it was, it continued. Then in 1928, when there was Kumbha-melā... Mahārāja, when you joined Gauḍīya Maṭha?
Prabhupāda: They are not prepared because as soon as they understand that they are going to be one these varieties of life, they shudder. Therefore they do not like to understand this. If by logic I prove that you are going to be a dog next life, that is very difficult. Just like one astrologer has said that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Sweden. You know that?
Guest (1): No, I don't.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Delhi, one astrologer.
Guest (1): Delhi, some astrologer said?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): What does the government of India say about that, any comment?
Prabhupāda: That I do not know.
Guest (1): Are they going to worship there? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Well, they do not believe in astrology. Therefore they cannot take any step. They do not believe in next life, so they cannot take any step. And whether it is a fact or not, because they do not believe in next life, so what is the use of taking step? Is it as good as to say that Jawaharlal Nehru has become Indra. If somebody says like that, so they'll have to discard this thing also, and they have to discard that thing also. Because they do not believe in the next life. Simply by presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we can defy all these rascals. Everything is there. Bhagavad-gītā was not presented as it is. That is the defect. The first thing is: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. And they are students of Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he did not understand, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. All these political leaders, they do not understand what is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. What do you think, Bhadra Kṛṣṇa? The dehāntara-prāptiḥ, do they understand?
Bhadra Kṛṣṇa: It's not something known.
Prabhupāda: Mostly they are vegetarian, strictly vegetarian. Actually, in Southern India, they maintain the Hindu culture. You'll find big high-court judges, they have got tilaka.
Ambassador: That's true.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strictly in Rāmānuja sampradāya, or Śaiva sampradāya they have got... Strictly taking bath and tilaka. In New Delhi, you'll find so many Madrasi gentlemen, big, big, high officers, they're strictly following Hindu principles.
Ambassador: You'll be surpri...
Prabhupāda: And still, if I am correct, in Madras, they, there, there is not many Mohammedans. The Mohammedan culture could not enter...
Ambassador: That's very true.
Prabhupāda: ...into Madras, Southern India. And you'll find also in our Caitanya Caritāmṛta... Now I am translating. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to Southern India, practically whole Southern India became Vaiṣṇava by His preaching.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: But we are... We are small people. We can only, we cannot go beyond the...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I know.
Ambassador: But as individuals we'd be very happy to...
Prabhupāda: No, even if we approach higher authorities... Our men in New Delhi saw Indira Gandhi.
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. She said that "This is the position, that we are secular. We cannot support." Of course, we want simply Kṛṣṇa's support. And we are increasing. We are not decreasing. The movement was started in 1966.
Ambassador: Oh, only?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: That's tremendous.
Prabhupāda: Now it is all over.
Ambassador: Of course, from Sweden, I mean, it depends upon the nationality. People can go for three months without any visa.
Prabhupāda: No, that is different thing. But missionary visa. From missionary... When there's missionary, there is no question of any particular country, because we have got men from different countries. Our men, ISKCON representatives, they should be given missionary visa when they want to go. That is my... That much help I want.
Ambassador: Who is the representative in India? Of this...? In Delhi, of your organization? In Delhi?
Prabhupāda: In Delhi?
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is. Tejas.
Paramahaṁsa: Tejas dāsa.
Ambassador: He should meet someone fairly senior in the home ministry.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ambassador: I can write to him, and he can also meet. I think...
Prabhupāda: So you can, you can give some introductory...
Ambassador: Yes, I will give the names, too. You come to the Embassy.
Prabhupāda: No, visa, of course, it is to be given from here. So why you should refer to Delhi? You can use your discrimination.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) That is this position. So do you think I shall submit some name?
Ambassador: Certainly, Your Grace, and I will look into it and if I have got right, I will do it, or I will send...
Prabhupāda: No. You are... Why you have not right? Because...
Ambassador: Yes, I've got, there are discretions.
Prabhupāda: Then, then it will be useless. Because as soon as you send to Delhi, they'll refuse. So then don't try for it. If you can, if you can help personally, then we'll submit the names. Otherwise, if you go in official channels, I don't expect.
Ambassador: No, I'll look at the rules you see and... I can't break the rules.
Prabhupāda: So you see the rules. If you can...
Ambassador: I can't break the rules.
Prabhupāda: ...then I'll submit.
Ambassador: Quite right.
Prabhupāda: Then when I shall send some of my men to know that you can? When I shall send?
Ambassador: By tomorrow afternoon.
Prabhupāda: They are not interested. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They clearly says that "What this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or saṅkīrtana will do?" They says, yes. (laughs) They have become so dull. The Bhagavad-gītā, the culture of India, they have forsaken. They are now taking culture from Russia. Yes. This is the advancement of education. They are taking instruction from Lenin than from Kṛṣṇa. This is the position. Especially in India. Outside India they are interested, so many European, American, Western countries' boys and girls, they have joined and sacrificed their life. But in India they are callous. They think that "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? We know that. It is very old story. Now we want technology."
Guest (1) (Indian man): In Delhi we have got quite a big number of good life members and helpful people.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are, certainly. India is born Kṛṣṇa conscious, but by artificial means... Amongst the mass of people the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, but amongst the so-called educated, advanced, they are trying to forget. This is the difficulty.
Guest (1): Physical life has become so difficult...
Prabhupāda: It must be difficult. It must be difficult, because the so-called advancement has not helped the people. In our childhood we purchased ghee one rupee, first-class. Now it is not available. And this is advancement of civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yeah, y-a-m. Yaṁ hi... Get this light on. (break) ...there is birth and death and old age and... That is liberation. That is siddhi. That is perfection. These rascals are making plans, material plans. Jawaharlal Nehru made plan of this New Delhi. But he is kicked out. "Go out!" And now he has become a dog in Switzerland.
Śrutakīrti: In Sweden.
Prabhupāda: In Sweden.
Śyāmasundara: What?
Śrutakīrti: He's one of two dogs in Sweden.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīdhara Mahārāja told me. Some astrologer has...
Brahmānanda: He's taken his birth there.
Śyāmasundara: Ah.
Prabhupāda: So they, these so-called leaders are so fools that they... Therefore they don't believe in next life. Because that is very horrible for them. But the next life is there. Just like we, we, we have our next life. We had our previous life, then now another life, another life. So this simple thing they cannot understand. Nature is controlling this, next life, next life. Otherwise why so many varieties of life? So they have no brain. They are simply making plan for the fifty years duration of life. That's all. And even from practical point of view, suppose you are constructing a very nice house, and if you know that next day you'll be kicked out, you'll die, will you do that? But it is a fact. Next day or two days after, you'll die. That's a fact. So first of all, make arrangement that you'll not die, you'll be able to live here. That is their foolishness.
Prabhupāda: There will not be any scarcity of food. (indistinct)
Guest: Yes, if we work hard.
Prabhupāda: Not work hard, everyone should produce. But who's producing. Suppose in Delhi, such a big city. What is the population?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the population? Tell me.
Guest: About ah, four million.
Prabhupāda: Four million. And what is the population of Bombay?
Guest: About six and a half million, seven million.
Prabhupāda: Seven million. And what is Calcutta?
Guest: About seven and a half million.
Prabhupāda: And we say you take.... And what is the population of India?
Guest: Five ah, nearly six hundred million now.
Prabhupāda: Six hundred million.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. It's practical. Therefore in India we are considered as the richest community. They was a question in Parliament, "Wherefrom these Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they get their money?" And the Parliament would reply, Home Member, that "They get money by distributing literature." This is the reply. This is recorded in the Parliament, Indian Parliament.
Hṛdayānanda: Delhi.
Prabhupāda: So if you simply push on our literature, then our movement is going, you must know. It is really going forward. And there will be no scarcity. You'll get everything. (break) Our neighbors they inquire, is it not? That, "You are living so happily, where do you get money?"
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The storekeepers, they inquire. They're envious, that "How these people enjoying life without earning, without working hard?" Now whole Bombay is surprised when you purchased this land.
Prabhupāda: For Vancouver?
Guru dāsa: No, I'm go..., tomorrow I'm going to join Bhavānanda for a week, Bhavānanda Swami. Then I go to Delhi to see... And I'm also going to Bhuvaneśvara for Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. Then I'm going to Delhi to see that American Ambassador again about putting our name on the food list, Indo-American food list, then Vṛndāvana, then Vancouver.
Prabhupāda: So (indistinct) Delhi. Then?
Guru dāsa: New York.
Prabhupāda: New York. Delhi to New York?
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru dāsa: I think it is direct. That I can do.
Guest (1) (Indian man): (Hindi with Prabhupāda) In relation with our business also, I am thinking of going.
Prabhupāda: No business. (laughter) Don't go. Business is this hari kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: With car, there is a platform like this. It moves on the roof of the house. (laughter) (Hindi) Helicopter.
Guest (1): Helicopter.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...New York, goes to Los Angeles and then to Honolulu, then Tokyo, then Hong Kong, then New Delhi... No. Hong Kong to Bangkok, Bangkok to New Delhi, New Delhi to Karachi, Karachi to Beirut, then, I think, London, then again New York. One, one round. (Hindi) One round.
Guest (1): (Hindi) (break) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughing) (break) Fifty crores.
Guest (1): Huh? More than that. (laughter) Why not?
Prabhupāda: Not fifty crores. Fifty-five lakhs.
Guest (1): Fifty-five lakhs. Oh.
Prabhupāda: This George Harrison, he came there.
Prabhupāda: So they're arranging for roofing?
Guru dāsa: Any for roof? No, this is for scaffolding. Actually, also some wood planks for the roof to be casted with the steel. So that plank wood has also come, and the (Hindi) for casting, uh, for scaffolding has also come. And Guṇārṇava spoke to Tejīyas on the telephone, and he said that within a few days the steel would be ready. So I'm also going to go to Delhi the day after tomorrow and check on the steel, and I think we'll bring it down and start.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru dāsa: Yes, we'll do that. I'll do that. (break) ...so want to learn Deity worship in Vṛndāvana. I also will learn that Deity worship.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct), they are doing very nice.
Guru dāsa: Hm.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru dāsa: Hm. That's nice, that's nice.
Prabhupāda: Three men at the time of ārati.
Guru dāsa: I was wondering. In Imlitala they do one man, but I was thinking three is very... At that JK temple in Kanpur, three men. That's nice.
Prabhupāda: Three men (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Where is the Deity?
Devotee: Taken on saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Take your time and...
Devotee: Saṅkīrtana, when you're able.
Guru dāsa: She (Guest 3) was attending all the lectures at the pandal in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen her.
Guru dāsa: And Philadelphia also.
Prabhupāda: So, you understand our philosophy?
Guest (3): Understand...?
Prabhupāda: Our philosophy?
Guest (1): Philosophy.
Guest (3): Yes, I do. I think I do. (laughs) I was in New York at Hare Kṛṣṇa (indistinct) time, and we have a temple in our apartment, picture of the Deities.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Guest (3): Philadelphia.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Forty rupees.
Dr. Kapoor: Forty rupees?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But I could not spend because there was no exchange for Indian currency, no (laughter). So it was kept as it is. When I came back in 1967, that was spent as my taxi fare (laughter). At that time it was spent. From Palam airport to Delhi, that Chippiwada. So they charged me thirty-five rupees or forty rupees. So at that time it was spent, and 1967 there was heart attack.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was hospitalized, but I did not like the hospital. So I thought that now I shall die, let me go back to Vṛndāvana. (Hindi)
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, it was 1967, wasn't it.
Prabhupāda: 1967, yes.
Dr. Kapoor: So it was after the heart attack that you came here?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At that time. Then there was repeated letters, come back, come back. So I returned in 1968. So, in spite of heart weakness, I worked. I suffered that weakness continually for one year.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who, who was pressing the court case?
Prabhupāda: It was amongst themselves.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To see who should get the right to worship.
Prabhupāda: In Delhi there is a lawyer. He told me. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would be really wonderful if Sumatiben would decide to support our temple because the entire Gujarati community of Bombay follows her direction. They really do, especially in these matters. And she is known to be the chairman of... (break)
Prabhupāda: (to Patel) You are śānta-bhakta.
Dr. Patel: Am I?
Prabhupāda: Śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya, and mādhurya.
Dr. Patel: Mādhurya-bhakta is the best. Like gopīs. But that is very difficult to be.
Prabhupāda: No, best, it is just one's conception, you see? Otherwise, all are best. All are best. But śānta-bhaktas do not take Kṛṣṇa very intimately.
Prabhupāda: They learned from America. That's a fact. The hippie movement started from America.
Dr. Patel: Now, hippie movement started from America. That means they started first. Not after coming to India...
Prabhupāda: But they learned it from India.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupāda: They came here... I have got many students. They came here for spiritual enlightenment, but they learned gañjā smoking and keeping high, big beard. You know. There is a sannyāsa-āśrama in Delhi. And people contribute them gañjā. Not only they, I know... My father, he was also attached to so many sannyāsīs. So in Kālī-ghāṭa, there was a sannyāsī...
Dr. Patel: Sannyāsīs, those nāgā-bābās, they smoke.
Prabhupāda: Not nāgā... He was a regular sannyāsī, Māyāvādī sannyāsī. So my father was giving them the saffron cloth and gañjā. People accept it that this is one of the items.
Dr. Patel: Sūtas are brāhmaṇa mother and father, father kṣatriya. These sūt... No? Those brāhmaṇas were sūtas.
Prabhupāda: No. Sūtas means carpenter. Śūdra. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) (break) ...government minister, he has frankly said that "We do not want you to grow here." You know that?
Dr. Patel: Who is that minister?
Prabhupāda: The Home Minister, Havas(?), in Delhi.
Dr. Patel: Oh, Delhi.
Prabhupāda: The government is against our movement. Because they are teaching: "Drink wine, eat meat," and we are teaching no meat-eating. How they will approve of our movement?
Dr. Patel: Not only that. We have just now talked about teaching meat. This government of Maharashtra has created an institution, government institution, which are feeding pigs for selling, meat, and poultry. It could have been done by any private institution outside. Why, eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I don't know why they... So they are all śūdras, these, these daityas.
Prabhupāda: Not śūdras. They are less than śūdras.
Prabhupāda: ...no woman can... (break) So I took it very a cheap price. There was no question of woman. I kept my office there. And the address was Multani temple. It is a temple. Multani temple, Grant Road. And in my retired life my office was there, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple and Delhi, Chippiwada. And my residence was Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. And before that, that Keśī Ghāṭa. Who has seen that? You have...?
Devotee: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: That was also temple. Yes.
Indian devotee: Kṛṣṇa has arranged.
Indian devotee: Very nice side, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I lived in that house for seven years. And then I came to Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Which way? (break) ...stayed in that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple, Malliks. And still I am living in temple. So Kṛṣṇa has arranged nicely, from the beginning of my life, temple. Which way? This way? (break) Medhi, this is called medhi, this rod, center. So the, the bull is bound up with it and he goes round, goes around. All day. So gṛhamedhī means center is home, and he goes round. Throughout the whole life. They are called gṛhamedhīs.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...the anxiety of Prahlāda Mahārāja, "How these rascals, who have made a plan for happiness of a few men, gorgeous plan." And they're... For happiness of the government servant. That's all. You know in Delhi there is Planning Commission? What is that plan? That people may starve, and Indira Gandhi and company may flourish. That's all.
Gupta: I think, Mahārāja, they are coming to the office at twelve and going back at one, doing nothing, and...
Prabhupāda: But what they have got to do?
Gupta: They are not doing...
Prabhupāda: Just like I have seen in London the Parliament. When they had some so-called empire... Now the Parliament is useless, useless. The Parliament members and the Lords, House of Lords, House of Commons, they are now useless. They have got some old books only. In Parliament. I have seen. Some old books. Old books means all the speeches are recorded in books. And who is going to read them? Almiras, so many... I have seen in Parliament. Hundreds and thousands of speeches recorded and bound up very nicely. Who is going to read them? Simply waste of time.
Prabhupāda: ...and they would all come to our place in procession, and we shall feed them. This program should be started immediately. And so that the whole day and night this nuisance will go on.
Guru dāsa: Maybe we should occupy the L.I.C. grounds in Delhi with kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru dāsa: We should occupy the L.I.C. grounds in Delhi with kīrtana?
Prabhupāda: No... No, you are jumping over... Now, the question is in Bombay. Why you are jumping in Delhi?
Guru dāsa: But they asked us in L.I.C. the same thing. They asked us to leave L.I.C. grounds because the kīrtana was nuisance.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. That chapter is now...
Guru dāsa: I see.
Prabhupāda: ...in prominence. Don't come near.
Prabhupāda: You are hopeful, but I am thinking in otherwise, that...
Guest: Unless they have got some...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: From Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: Unless there is an adverse report from Delhi.
Yaśomatīnandana: Delhi.
Guest: You see if there is any report from the Delhi, from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, against this movement, because being Americans...
Prabhupāda: No, they are against this movement, that I have got many proofs.
Guest: But if they will logically...
Prabhupāda: Logic, there is no logic.
Prabhupāda: Center is against.
Guest: If the center is against, then how they have given a permission Delhi?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: Then how we have got a permission in Delhi?
Prabhupāda: What is that permission?
Guest: Temple permission building.
Yaśomatīnandana: We don't have... We haven't built a temple in Delhi.
Guest: We don't have a temple in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Guest: Then what about the permission in the Māyāpur?
Prabhupāda: Māyāpur, that doesn't require any permission.
Prabhupāda: So why he is called rākṣasa, not a saintly person? What is the reason?
Mahāṁsa: Because he was trying to en...
Prabhupāda: I will talk. Why he is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? And not only that... I do not know whether here. In Delhi have seen Rāma-līlā, the effigy of Rāvaṇa is beaten with shoes sometimes. But actually he was a great devotee of Lord Śiva. Everyone knows. And he was so big devotee that Lord Śiva gave him all benedictions, "Whatever you want." So why this Rāvaṇa is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? Why he is not described as a saintly person? He was a brāhmaṇa by birth. He was born of a brāhmaṇa father, and he was great student of Vedas. Materially he was very opulent so that he could control even the demigods. He was so powerful. Still, with all this qualification, why he is described as rākṣasa? You answer this point.
Indian man (2): Because he had some fight with... So kāma, krodha, moha, lobha, he had that also... (break)
Prabhupāda: He is not a devotee of the Lord. So anyone... That is our criterion. Anyone who is not a devotee, whatever he may be... He may be very, very big or so-called saintly, but according to the description of the śāstras, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We shall calculate in that way.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, in New Delhi the government has banned the use of milk in the sweet shops and there is no more cheese or any milk products.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And there will be no more. These things will vanish. That is stated in the... Rice, wheat, milk, sugar and fruits, they will be no more available. You have to eat meat. That day is coming. But before that day comes, you go back to home, back to Godhead.
Devotees: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa and everything is finished, all this nonsense place, full of demons.
Śrīdhara: "They possessed such an abundance of various kinds of milk products that they were throwing butter lavishly on each other's body without restriction."
Prabhupāda: Just see how rich they were.
Prabhupāda: Anardhena nyāya-rahitam: "If you have no money, then you'll never get justice." Dalmia, he was imprisoned for two years.
Dr. Patel: He was never in the jail. I know.
Prabhupāda: He was in the Delhi Hospital. (break) I am speaking so loudly real thing. Here you cannot. Immediately you'll be in the black book. (break)
Girirāja: "...must go unpunished. This is itself the business of criminal and lawless men who have no knowledge what it means to protect the citizens under their charge." (break)
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is rogues. So what is the value of that laws? The legislative assembly means a set of rogues, and if they legislate something, what is the value of that? (break) Caught like that, yes. Because people are becoming degraded, so they elected such degraded everything. (break) Shameless. The whole nation is asking that "You resign." "No." Such shameless. (break) ...that somebody was in the room, and the outsider says, "Who is in the room?" "No, no! I am not stealing!" (laughter) "No, no, I am not stealing."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, I have seen this gentleman. In Delhi I have seen him.
Guest: In New Delhi. And there are the five names of meditation on the back.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yogeśvara: I can't read it.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Niran, san, oṁkara, dvāroṁkāra, so 'ham, sat-nām.
Guest: Sat-nām. Those five names, according to your ways, position, you will be attracted to one of the names. Everyone has a center of power, energy, the way he taught us. Whatever you fear(indistinct), what particular name one(indistinct), some one that you're attracted to meditating on. (indistinct) dvāroṁkāra, so 'ham and sat-nām. I thought that I met a good master.
Dhanañjaya: Mr. O'Grady. Desmond O'Grady and some of his friends have just arrived. They'd like to come and see you and speak with you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: This is the Irish poet. (guests enter)
Satsvarūpa: Please sit down.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. How are you?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. How are you?
Woman: Very well, thank you.
O'Grady: We are very well and very tired. We've been traveling a long, long way, a long road from Delhi.
Dhanañjaya: Desmond is a poet. He's written books also, published in London. And tomorrow he goes to Sicily to a convention of poets and writers, international conference for writers and poets. He's representing Ireland, he's coming from Limerick in Southern Ireland.
O'Grady: This is my friend, Michael Robert (indistinct) We are colleagues together since we teach literature, English literature. And this is another friend of ours who has just come from Greece. Everybody seems to be traveling within the last twenty-four hours. This is a young painter friend of mine, Bob Jackson, also from Ireland, whose first time in Italy, out of Ireland, and he's staying with me at the moment. He came back with me from Ireland just a few weeks ago.
Prabhupāda: We are also writing books, so many. You have seen our books?
O'Grady: I have seen some, yes, because some of the friends have come up and...
Prabhupāda: Some of the books, you can show him. Here is one book, Bhagavad-gītā.
Satsvarūpa: They deify a man. He's a man but the people make him as a god.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: They say that about Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa was a man, and then later His followers deified Him. That man wrote that in that pamphlet, Dr. Bannerjee, in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he has said like that? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). So why they do not deify others? Only Kṛṣṇa. There were many big, big men. All the Pāṇḍavas were very big men. Kṛṣṇa was contemporate to the Pāṇḍavas. Why Kṛṣṇa was picked up, and not the Pāṇḍavas? What is the reason?
Yogeśvara: The Pāṇḍavas were the devotees of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This Anthropomorphism cannot be applied.
Satsvarūpa: Their activities were not so great.
Prabhupāda: Well, nobody's activities can be greater than God's activities.
Cardinal Pignedoli: No, I have been to Vārāṇasī, to Calcutta, to Bombay, Agra, Darjeeling and many other places in... Nepal also.
Prabhupāda: Nepal. My birthplace is in Calcutta.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Yes, very nice. In Delhi, and Monsignor too, he has visited all the places, huh?
Monsignor Verrozano: South India.
Cardinal Pignedoli: In Kerala?
Monsignor Verrozano: Kerala, Tirusrilapatti(?), Cochin, Madras, Bombay of course. Yes, last year I attended a kind of manifestation of your movement in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Monsignor Verrozano: Yes, I visited.
Prabhupāda: Bombay, there was function.
Monsignor Verrozano: Yes.
Prabhupāda: At that time, you were there?
Monsignor Verrozano: In January.
Bhagavān: We had a festival program in India. We've had one in Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, and for one week, and Srila Prabhupāda has spoken many times every night there. There's been thousands of people, ten thousand people.
Monsignor Verrozano: Yes, yes. And just last year about the 20th of January, it was this week of festivals also, this conscience of preaching sermons, many manifestations. Many people attended, and I too visited this, yes, also.
Prabhupāda: In Calcutta also we had such functions. About thirty thousand people were coming in Bombay.
Monsignor Verrozano: Could you be so kind to say to us something about your movement which is spread in the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our movement is that, that is first-class religious system which teaches how to love God. This is the sum and substance of our movement. There is a Sanskrit statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
If you want to be happy, then you must take to the superior type of religious system which teaches the followers how to love God without any motive, and which is never checked by any material condition. God's name is given here as Adhokṣaja. Adhokṣaja means beyond experimental knowledge.
Yogeśvara: May we have one more picture, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. What are the history of these buildings?
Bhagavān: These were temples here, demigod temples.
Prabhupāda: This style of building, arch, is seen in New Delhi also, constructed by the Moguls. This was also a temple?
Bhagavān: No. This was an arena where they used to watch wrestling, fighting.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that "Next life I am going to become a dog," would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body... Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...fig, there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains a tree like that. And there are thousands of fruits, figs. Where is that chemist who can prepare such figs? One, in Delhi, when our festival was going on, we invited a big chemist. He admitted that "Our chemical advance, scientific advancement is like this." He explained very nicely. You were present?
Yogeśvara: Where?
Prabhupāda: In Delhi? He said that a man who has learned the art to, what is called, barking like dog, and people will go to see, purchasing ticket, ten rupees, twenty rupees, how the man is barking like a dog. And there are so many dogs barking. They won't see. This is our advancement. If a man has artificially learned how to bark, they'll go to see by paying fees. And the natural barking, they don't care. So these rascals are like that. They're trying to manufacture life. And so many life is coming by nature's process, millions and millions, that is no credit. And he's trying, utopian, he'll create life by chemical combination, he's given all credit, Nobel Prize: "Oh, here is a man." This is rascaldom. So what credit you'll get. Suppose if you can manufacture a man or an animal in the laboratory, where is your credit? There are many millions and millions are coming automatically. We are trying to give credit to Kṛṣṇa who is making all this creation.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the fourth visit.
Professor La Combe: Fourth visit, every year.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Last year also, I came. I installed the Deity.
Professor La Combe: You now come right from Vṛndāvana or...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am coming from Vṛndāvana of course, via Delhi. Then Rome, then Geneva, then Paris. Then I shall go to Frankfurt. And from there I shall go to Sydney, Australia.
Professor La Combe: Oh, this is not the direct way.
Bhagavān: We have a Ratha-yātrā Festival. You have heard of this festival, from Jagannātha Purī.
Professor La Combe: Yes, of course. I have been there.
Bhagavān: We have this festival in very big, in the same scale, in Australia, London, San Francisco, Chicago.
Prabhupāda: Where is that poster? Australia? Yes.
Bhagavān: And in all these cities we are joined... In San Francisco there are ten thousand people who come at least every year to help pull the carts and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: In Chicago also. Philadelphia. There will be Ratha-yātrā. this is the...
Satsvarūpa: This is for Melbourne, Australia, Ratha-yātrā parade, (shows a poster), picture of the parade last year.
Professor La Combe: Last year.
Prabhupāda: No, this year they are advertising.
Prabhupāda: No, it was there. 1970. No, when you went to Vṛndāvana?
Professor La Combe: '36 or '37.
Prabhupāda: '36? Oh, yes.
Professor La Combe: It was not started.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ramaṇa-reti, there is a road from Vṛndāvana to, connecting with the road from Delhi to Agra. That road is called Chattikara, Chattikara Road. So on that road we have got our temple. It is locally known as Ramaṇa-reti.
Professor La Combe: After Mathurā.
Prabhupāda: After Mathurā. It is Vṛndāvana, Vṛndāvana. There is a shortcut. Formerly... The road is very old road, from Delhi to Vṛndāvana, taking a turn at the place known as Chattikara. So on that road we are constructing our temple.
Professor La Combe: Constructing now?
Prabhupāda: No, it is finished.
Bhagavān: In Vṛndāvana. We have Māyāpur, near Navadvīpa. And we also purchased some very nice land outside of Bombay. Juhu. Hyderabad and Calcutta.
Devotee: In Delhi also, we have a nice center.
Professor La Combe: What part of India?
Devotee: It's in West End. It is very close to the airport.
Professor La Combe: And in Calcutta?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Near Park St., Camac St.
Professor La Combe: Camac St. I know.
Devotee: Very nice, old... It was called the Ray Castle. It used to be occupied by some governors. (Someone gives the professor some prasādam.)
Professor La Combe: Thank you very much. Just a little.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, during that time of the Naxalites you had mentioned that after that program, you said due to the effects of our program, it stopped all that Naxalite movement. Because very shortly after we had that pandal in the Maidan, the whole Naxalite movement was finished. You said due to that, because we purified the atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Devotee: Did you say three? One or three?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: When you offer something... You once said in Delhi, "Either one or three."
Prabhupāda: That is neck bead. No. Yes. Yes, not... Yes, yes. Ārati. Ārati.
Devotee: Yes, Śrutakīrti had offered my son two cookies.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Devotee: And I think you said, "Either one or three."
Prabhupāda: No, no. I said...
Devotee: Two or four?
Prabhupāda: Two or four.
Devotee: Is there some reason behind this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Three is offered to the enemy. If I offer something, three, that means "You are my enemy."
Prabhupāda: What is the loss if we sit together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? And if there is some gain (indistinct) If you propose this in the United Nations do you think (indistinct)
Guest: Like we did together in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have seen it? They are very much eager.
Guest: So many people.
Prabhupāda: They are very much eager. (indistinct)
Guest: Eager?
Prabhupāda: And the other, the communist and the other (indistinct). I have seen many big, big officers they are chanting returning from the office and they are chanting and dancing. (indistinct) 20,000, 30,000. (indistinct) Now the government did not give us again that place in Delhi.
Guest: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Last time when we came, there they gave.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (indistinct) was very successful. Very, very successful, all big, big men came. They are going to have again for two days.
Devotee: In Delhi.
Devotee: Yes.
Devotee: That'll be nice. Śrīla Prabhupāda, tonight we've got about 70 Indians coming, big group of Indians. So, ah, would you like to take some rest before they come?
Devotee: They will be coming (indistinct).
Devotee: But I think that they won't expect to see you until about seven o'clock or so.
Devotee: In the temple room.
Devotee: They'll probably.... They'll wait for you in the temple room to come at about seven o'clock.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee: The government is against our movement but actually this movement is the only thing, even materially, that can help them.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, young, young people, they have got brain, (Reverend Powell laughs) receptive.
Reverend Powell: Yes, yes, rightly. And I might also inquire... I take it that you feel... Forgive me if I'm not using the right expression, but the caste system is written into the law of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, we have no caste system.
Reverend Powell: Well, I'm sorry. The brāhmaṇa, the śūdras and so on, per se.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is qualification. This is a division according to... Find out the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).
Reverend Powell: Your base there is in Bombay?
Prabhupāda: My birthplace is in Calcutta.
Reverend Powell: Calcutta, ah. I was there many years ago, I knew...
Prabhupāda: You have been in Calcutta?
Reverend Powell: Yes, I have. I crossed from Karachi and Delhi, I went down to Agra, and I gather this...
Prabhupāda: Yes, for people coming from England to Australia, they passed through Calcutta or Bombay, like that.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Jayatīrtha: And then we're going to New Vrindaban on Thursday morning.
Prabhupāda: (inaudible due to loud ocean waves)
Jayatīrtha: We'll be leaving on the 16th. (break)
Prabhupāda: Delhi also.
Bali Mardana: What is that?
Prabhupāda: (inaudible) They have come from otherwise?
Jayatīrtha: Probably the man who brought them out.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: The man who brought them out to play with them.
Prabhupāda: On the beach dogs are not allowed.
Jayatīrtha: No. Many times men bring their dogs out to play on the beach.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...if one successful yogi can walk on the water.
Prabhupāda: Everything they do. In our childhood we had a house for rental. There was a man. He was a professional beggar. You see? So other members of the house, they'll go to their office. He'll dress himself just like a sannyāsī and go for begging. (laughter) That was his business. (pause) Here in your country there is no such opportunity, but in India there is good opportunity. If you make a dress of sannyāsī, you can go anywhere, and you'll be respectable. They'll give you for eating.
Bali Mardana: Especially they prey on the women.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: In Delhi I went to one minister's house to get some papers. I could see in the back of the house the lady was entertaining some sannyāsī with sweetmeats and drinks.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Our men have to change their dress before they go out, brahmacārīs. That's the only way they can beg in this country.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
| Page Title: | Delhi (Conversations 1968 - 1974) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=72, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 72 |