Prabhupāda: A woman's duty is not to give up her husband even he is not of good character or if he is unfortunate, if he is old, or if he is diseased. Still, husband is worshiped by the wife. So you have come here, it is very sinful. So you... People will decry it. Please go back. Now we have finished." So in this way the gopīs will reply that, "You cannot request us to go back because with great difficulty and with great, I mean to say, ecstatic desire we have come to You, and it is not Your duty to ask us to go back." In this way you arrange some talking that Kṛṣṇa is asking them to go back, but they are insisting, "No, let us continue our rāsa dance." Then when the rāsa dance is finished, the gopīs will go, then Kṛṣṇa in His halilak(?), He says that "They are My heart and soul, these gopīs. They are so sincere devotees that they do not care for family encumbrances and all, any bad name. They come to Me. So how shall I repay them?" He was thinking. "How shall I repay their so ecstatic love?" So He thought that "I cannot repay them unless and until I take up their situation to understand Me. Because I Myself cannot understand Me. I have to take the position of the gopīs, how they are loving Me." So with that consideration He took the form of Lord Caitanya. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is blackish, Lord Caitanya is of the color of the gopīs. The whole life of Lord Caitanya is representation of gopīs' love towards Kṛṣṇa. That should be painted in that picture. You have got to ask anything?
Consideration (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mālatī: Is that why people are making these machines, because they can't remember? Is that a sign of Kali that there's more machines to help people?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. And nowadays in the courts, they use machines. The judges also cannot remember what has been argued between the parties. So they take this tape recorder and give judgement. Because the argument is going on for two days, three days, how much he can remember? And when he gives judgement he has to take consideration of all the arguments, then give his judgement. So this machine helps.
Prabhupāda: One who loves Kṛṣṇa without inquiry, that is nice position. To inquire about Kṛṣṇa is knowledge. And pure devotion is transcendental to knowledge. Love does not depend on the greatness. If a boy loves a girl or the girl loves a boy, even in this material field, it does not depend on the greatness of the boy. Of course, here everything is on material consideration. But actual love is without any consideration, what He is or what He isn't. That is real love. That is the perfectional stage of love, without inquiring how great He is or what He is. But for the neophytes it is necessary to know about Kṛṣṇa. Because we have no love, so if we understand that Kṛṣṇa is so great, then gradually we can love. Our position is different because when... Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said that siddhānta boliya citte na kara ālasa: "Try to understand about Kṛṣṇa." Just like Kṛṣṇa is explaining in Bhagavad-gītā that "I am this amongst the trees. I am this. I am this planet. Amongst this, I am this. I am this." So just to impress upon the neophyte devotees about the greatness... And those who are advanced devotees, they do not want to see whether Kṛṣṇa is great or small. They simply love Him. That's all. That is pure love. In Vṛndāvana, at least these gopīs, they never saw Kṛṣṇa's any jugglery or any greatness. But they still love, pure love. Pure love means
- anyābhilāśitā-śūnyaṁ
- jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
- ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu
- śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
- (Brs. 1.1.11)
Without any cultivation of knowledge, without any activities of fruitive action, without any desire, simply to love Kṛṣṇa in order to please Him—that is the highest perfectional stage of devotion. There is no consideration "Whether Kṛṣṇa is God or not, whether we are getting benefit or not." "Simply we love Kṛṣṇa." That is the perfectional stage.
- sādhu saṅga sādhu saṅga sarva śāstra kaya
- lavamātra sādhu saṅge sarva siddhi haya
So this association is required. If you can make your Kṛṣṇa consciousness society perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious, wherever you will go, they will become Kṛṣṇa conscious, simply by your presence. So you have to become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There should be no adulteration. That adulteration means that knowledge and fruitive activities and material desires. If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is freed from these three kinds of contamination, then that is pure.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is a very popular and old literature, Vedic literature, known all over the world. But so far the history of this Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, there are difference of opinions, but factually even if we take it as it is, it is at least five thousand years old. And in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn that five thousand years ago it was spoken on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. But before that, some millions of years ago, the same Bhagavad-gītā was spoken long, long ago. So actually the human effort cannot trace out the history of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but taking consideration of the present history, it is at least as old as five thousand years.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. But if they don't get married. When they are offered... Here is a woman. She was offered and... You see? It was suggested that she get married and because of her body she said no. She thinks she is, you know, she... That's the only reason she could say no, because material reason. Not spiritual reason. She said no because of her preference, material preference.
Prabhupāda: Of course, so long we have got this material body, some material consideration must be there. (chuckles) That is not possible to avoid completely.
Journalist: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Why do they not take consideration that "We are making so much improvement, what improvement we have done about these four things?" They have no. And still they're very much proud, advanced in education, science. But the four primary miserable conditions, they remain as they are. You see? There may be advancement in medical science, but there is no medicine which can claim "No more disease, come on." Is there any medicine? So what is that advancement? Rather, disease are increasing in different forms. They have invented nuclear weapon. What is that? To kill. But have you invented something so that no more men will die? That is credit. Man is dying every moment, so you have invented something to accelerate that death. That's all. Is that very, very good credit? So there is no solution of death. They are trying to stop the, I mean to say, overpopulation. But where is the solution? Every minute, there are three persons increasing. That is the statistics. So there is no solution for birth, there is no solution for death, there is no solution for disease and there is no solution for old age. There was a great scientist, Professor Einstein, he also died in old age. Why did he not stop to check old age? Everyone is trying to remain youthful. Where is that process? So they do not care how to solve this because this is beyond their means. They are giving something bluff, that's all. They do not care what is the real problem and how to solve it. They do not care for it. But here is a movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Journalist: One hundred.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In different branches. I have got about thirteen branches. Some of the disciples are working in London. Yes, they are doing very nice. They are all married couples. I got them married. Yes. I got them married. They're young boys, all within thirty. My oldest disciple he is 28. Otherwise 25, 24. At most 30. And similarly, girls, you have seen this girl. You see. So I get them, make them happy in married life. Their mentality is... They are not after so-called puffed-up life. They can live very simply with the least demand of bodily necessities, but thinking very high of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I am very hopeful that even I die... Because I am old man, 73 years old. I may die at any moment. But I am now assured my movement will go on. These boys will carry it. That, my mission, is in that way successful. I came here with this idea, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be started from America. Because anything accepted by America, people follow because America is considered to be the... Actually America is not a poverty-stricken country. So they can very easily understand, they can take it. And there are many confused youths. So with all these considerations, I came here, and I think I'm successful, yes.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Kīrtanānanda: What was Arjuna's relationship to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Friendship. That is also... There are five kinds of relationship. Just like "God is great." That is simply feeling the greatness of God. Then, when he feels exactly how God is great, then naturally there will be an inclination to serve God. That is called servitude. First neutrality estimation... That is called śānta-rasa, neutral, no activity but simply appreciating, "God is great," simply appreciation. And then servitude. When the appreciation is complete, "Oh, why not serve God? He is so great. He is giving us so many things. Let me return something. Let me do some service of Him." Servitude. That is further development of the appreciation of the greatness of God. And then further development is friendship. Friendship means... Service means I ask you, "Please give me a glass of water." You give me. And friendship means you are thinking, "How my friend will be... Now he may be wanting a glass of water." So before asking me, if you give me, "I think you may require a glass of water," that is friendship. Friendship means feeling friend's welfare always. Suhṛt. Friendship is not simply chatting. Friendship means thinking, "How my friend will be happy?" This is friendship. Then that friendship, when further developed, that is parenthood. Just like parents, they have no other consideration. They want to see, "How my child will be happy always?" And further development is conjugal love, just like man and woman, male and female, that love. That love includes everything—that appreciation of greatness, that servitude of service, the friendship, then maternal love, and further, offering everything for the lover. That is most perfectional stage of love.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): That consideration of "myself, I am thinking," that is not there.
Prabhupāda: Then who is thinking?
Guest (1): Thinking means...
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't use abstract knowledge. As soon as you are thinking, you are thinking.
Guest (1): No, that sometimes thinking, when you are listening inside you...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, listening or thinking, these are different process of acquiring knowledge, but you are doing that.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Well, that is also due to ... not appreciate. But Kṛṣṇa should be... The cook should have consideration that Kṛṣṇa must be offered first-class foodstuff. So if he offers something last class, that is not his duty. But Kṛṣṇa can accept anything if it is offered by a devotee, and a devotee also can accept any prasādam, even if it is spicy. (break) Hiraṇyakaśipu gave his son poison and he drank it nectarine. So for the devotee even it is spicy to other taste, it is very palatable to the devotee. What is the question of spicy? He was offered poison, real poison. (break) ...she also offered Kṛṣṇa poison, but Kṛṣṇa's so nice that "She took Me as My mother." So He took the poison and delivered her. Kṛṣṇa does not take the bad side. Any good man, he does not take the bad side; he takes only the good side. (break) He wanted to make business with my Guru Mahārāja. But he did not take the bad side. He took the good side that "He has come forward to give me some service. So whatever he wanted he gave him."
Bob: Business with you, what was that? Business with who?
Prabhupāda: That is, I am talking about my Guru Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Because India, the caste system is very strong. So a brāhmaṇa will never accept a girl born into a śūdra family, although in śāstra it says that you can accept. (Sanskrit) means family member is respectful. Your family consideration is very... During marriage ceremony, the family consideration is very strong. Now that is dwindling. Formerly, family traditions, then horoscope. The so-called love was not given any importance, the so-called love. As in other countries the boys select wife or girls selects... No. There is no importance on this. The father, mother will see the horoscope, whether this boy and girl will agree according to the horoscope. Rāja-yoga(?) There are some calculations, astronomical calculations, from his birth, from her birth, and the expert astrologer will select, "Yes, this boy and this girl will be happy." Then they are married. If there is any discrepancy, they will deny, "No." These were the considerations. Then family tradition. What is the tradition of the boy's father's family, mother's family, so many things they calculate, then the marriage settlement, "Yes." And the boy might not have seen the girl. There is no necessity of the boy seeing the girl or the girl seeing the boy. There is no necessity. After marriage, when the marriage ceremony is performed, then the boy and girl can see one another: "Oh, she is my wife." (laughter) "He is my husband." That. (aside) So. You can begin. Oh, this is another magazine, Earth.
Yadubara: It's a new magazine, and this is the second issue out in America. It promised to be a very good magazine, and it hasn't turned out to be so. It's just another slick magazine.
Prabhupāda: Well, unless magazines are reduced to such position, it will not be sold.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of belief. It is a fact. You have to accept another body after this body, just like you have already accepted. Your childhood body was there, and that is gone. You accepted another body. Similarly, now you have got another body. A few years after, you will get another body. So you are accepting bodies one after another. That is a fact. So you have to accept another body after this. So what kind of body I am going to get? Is this not the point of consideration? But there is no education on this point. But that's a fact. We have accepted already so many bodies. And natural conclusion is that I must accept another body. But what kind of body. Now you can select. There are 8,400,000 forms of body. So these questions are not discussed at all, but they are very important factors. That is philosophy. But modern civilization they neglect: "I don't mind what kind of body I shall get next life." So those who are intelligent, if they think that "Why shall I neglect this fact? I am not going to accept a body like a tree or a dog. If I accept a body, I must have a body very nice." One may not (be) interested in this fact, but others may be interested.
Impersonalist: What about Buddha? Would you say that he is good? Śyāmasundara: Buddha, Lord Buddha. Prabhupāda: Yes. About Lord Buddha is also mentioned in the śāstra that Lord Buddha will appear in Gayā Pradesh, in the province of Gayā, and his business will be to cheat the atheists. That is described. Now, how he is cheating? He is the incarnation of God, but he is preaching amongst people who don't believe in God. So he is cheating in this way, that "Yes, there is no God. You hear me." But he is God. The people amongst whom he is preaching, they don't believe in God, but they accept Lord Buddha. But he is God. So by cheating, he is making others to worship God.
Prabhupāda: That, that I have repeatedly said, that you Americans, you are..., you have already the grace of the Lord. According to our Vedic formula, when a man is born in rich family he is understood to be possessing the grace of the Lord. So you Americans, you have got sufficient riches, you are sons of rich men. So this is the grace of God, janma aiśvarya, to take birth in a high family, to possess riches; janmaiśvarya śruta (SB 1.8.26), to become learned scholar. Just like you are going to the moon planet. Your scientific knowledge is advanced. And śrī, śrī means beauty. So you are beautiful also. So considering all these four points, it is to be understood that you are in favorable condition, favorable consideration of the Absolute Truth Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, then all your these material opulences plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness makes your life perfect.
Guest (2): Do you foresee that the devotees will grow in numbers in this country?
Prabhupāda: There is possibility. Otherwise why these young men are coming? That I can say. There is good possibility, but we have no facility. Just like government is spending to stop the LSD intoxication, millions of dollars. But our students, as soon as they come, they become my students, I simply order them, "No intoxication." So what to speak of LSD, they do not take tea, they do not take coffee, they do not smoke. But government will not help us. That is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: That is nothing. That period of time is relative. As human beings, we live for some time-say for a hundred years—but there are demigods who can live for millions of years. And an ant will live for only a few hours. So this is relative. But time is eternal, and what is happening in so-called human history has no consideration from the viewpoint of eternal time. That is all relative. If there is some catastrophe in ant society, the ants may be very much concerned, but human society does not take any notice of it. Similarly, if a catastrophe occurs in human society, the demigods, who are higher than us, do not consider it. Some birds or cats or dogs may be fighting, and for them it may be a catastrophe, but for us it is nothing. This is the relative world, and we should know that what has happened in this world is not worthy of consideration in terms of universal affairs. Things are coming and going like seasonal changes. Arjuna put this question to Kṛṣṇa: "This is a catastrophe! I have to kill my own men." Although Arjuna believed this to be a catastrophe, Kṛṣṇa likened it to seasonal changes. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of happiness and distress and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons." In the winter season water is not very pleasant, but in the summer it is very pleasing. What then, is the condition of water? Is it pleasing or not? The water is the same, but in touch with our skin it becomes pleasing or not according to the climatic circumstances. Just because the summer is hot, should I give up cooking? Work must be done.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: ...in a human form.
Prabhupāda: Yes, for Kṛṣṇa, there is no such consideration, human form or plant form or... Everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Why you are anxious to know about the human form? Why? Eh? What is your answer? Question: Tulasī devī should be in human form. Why you are asking this question?
Devotee: I was wondering is she was alive in human form while Kṛṣṇa was on earth.
Prabhupāda: No, no. She may not be. But where is the wrong if she's not in human form? Eh? Everyone is alive, plants, beasts, everyone is alive. Why you are so much anxious for the human form of life?
Devotee: It wouldn't matter.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa can talk with animals, with trees, with plants. That is Kṛṣṇa. Do you think that "I cannot talk with plants, therefore the plant should be in human form?" That is your conception. If I can talk with everyone, then where is the difference for me, a human being, or an insect or plant? So there is no such question that everyone should be in human form. Then one can talk with Kṛṣṇa and enjoy.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Krishna Tiwari: That's what I would say.
Śyāmasundara: That's another consideration. He merely wants to define the word "law." You're using the word "natural law." He wants to understand what does the concept mean, "law."
Devotee (1): This is an example. It's just an example.
Krishna Tiwari: Okay, I agree, but so long we understand that government is not some body from up...
Śyāmasundara: In Russia it is.
Krishna Tiwari: In Russia it is, and I don't care for it.
Prabhupāda: That you don't care for it... The point is you are under nature's law. There must be somebody who is controlling nature's law.
Father Tanner: Hm. But, you see, knowledge and attainment aren't the same thing. You know, I may know that it is wrong to be an alcoholic, and maybe I am not actually, physically an alcoholic, but it doesn't mean to say that interiorally I have cleansed myself of all addiction. The fact that you are not drinking for a year doesn't mean to say that you have overcome the intoxicant urge if that is in you, although you know it is wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, this argument is not very strong. Just like one foodstuff, freshly made, it is fresh. But if somebody argues that if it remains four days more, it will become bad, that is surmisation. Now it is fresh. We take it fresh. What will happen in future, that is no consideration. In future, everyone may fall and everyone may become elevated. But we have to take his present situation, what he is at present.
Father Tanner: But couldn't it be the difference between appearance and reality?
Prabhupāda: This is reality. If at the present moment he is free from all sinful activities, that is reality. In future, everyone is susceptible to fall down. If he does not carry the principles strictly that proneness is there. But that is not consideration. What he is at present, that is consideration.
Prabhupāda: That is Christian idea.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. After death... But so far I know, Christian there is consideration of hell and heaven.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Somebody is going to hell, somebody's going to heaven. Is it not? After death?
Devotee: Yes, I think so.
Śyāmasundara: That was my understanding.
Devotee: That is the Christian idea.
Prabhupāda: So, if there is question of hell and heaven, then we are responsible in this life for our next life, whether we are going to hell or heaven.
Prabhupāda: Well. Now in India, meat is selling at high price than vegetable. Yes.
Yogeśvara: He said now in India meat is selling at a higher price than vegetables.
Prabhupāda: That is no logic.
Yogeśvara: Not logic.
Prabhupāda: Price of meat is higher than milk and vegetables. So in that consideration, why not take vegetable and milk. Why you go to meat? So she is driving taxi, girls also drive taxi?
Yogeśvara: Oh, yes.
Satsvarūpa: In New York City, they also drive taxi.
Prabhupāda: Girls?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. They get more business. (end)
Cardinal Danielou: ...a cow to give him to children who are hungry and the...
Prabhupāda: No, no, from any other consideration, cows' milk we drink. Therefore she's mother. Is it not?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Cardinal Danielou: Oui.
Yogeśvara: N'est ce pas?
Cardinal Danielou: Oui, yes, surely, surely, but the...
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conversion, we have got seven mothers. Ātma-mātā, the original mother, guroḥ patnī, wife of the master, spiritual master...
Cardinal Danielou: Yes.
Bhagavān: Can you understand?
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Prabhupāda: Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī, the wife of the priest.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, from moral point of view...
Prabhupāda: So our point of view is that we don't allow killing any animal. Our Kṛṣṇa says: patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Kṛṣṇa says vegetable, fruits, milk, grains, all these things should be offered to Me with devotion. And you should take the remnants of the foodstuff. So we take prasādam. And Kṛṣṇa says: "Give Me foodstuff prepared from this group." That we do. Accepting that the fruits, they have got life. But fruits are by nature... There are many fruits. It is offered by the tree for eating. The tree's not killed. So we accept this philosophy also that a, one animal, one living entity is meant for being food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That we also accept, but that does not mean one living entity is the food for another living entity, that does not mean I can kill my mother, my child... That is not, sir. So at least this must be taken into consideration that cows, innocent, they give us milk, we take its milk, and we kill in regular slaughterhouse, this is not very good thing. It is sinful.
Cardinal Danielou: Yes. I understand that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Apart from this consideration, at least this morality should be observed that cows, they're our mother. We should not kill at least mothers for eating the flesh.
Cardinal Danielou: The difficulty for us is not the idea that it is good for us to respect the life of a cow. The difficulty is the metaphysic reason. You know.
Prabhupāda: No, metaphysics, not...
Cardinal Danielou: It is, it is, it is the idea that all life is parcel of the life of God. You know of this is to us, difficult to admit. We can, there is a very great difference between the life of man who is really called to partake the life of God, and the animal life, who is (French)
Yogeśvara: Temporary.
Cardinal Danielou: No. Without, without, impermanent. Life of man is permanent.
Prabhupāda: That, that, that difference is due to development of consciousness. The human body, human body, you get developed consciousness. Just like this tree. It is also a living entity, but it's consciousness is not yet fructified. If you cut the tree, it does not resist. But it resists in a very small degree. That is proved by the scientists. The Sir Jagadisha Candra Bose, in Calcutta, he's also a very great scientist. He has made machine: when you cut the tree, it feels and it is recorded in the machine.
Professor: Now I understand exactly what the purpose of your movement is. I just wonder if you think the Western world is ready for this message?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not ready? So many young men are coming.
Professor: So many, O.K., yes, but consideration of so many other people outside this temple...
Prabhupāda: No, any sane man will accept. This cult will not be accepted by the insane. One who is in quite order of the brain, he'll accept it. Only mūḍhas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
Professor: And in India where is your āśrama or something like that?
Prabhupāda: My main āśrama is in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their contribution. And they have spoiled the Hindu culture.
Professor: Oh. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Because Vivekananda said, "Oh, what is the harm there, in eating? You can eat whatever you like. It doesn't matter in religion." It was the first. And he himself was eating anything. So all the Ramakrishna mission sannyāsīs still, they are eating meat, egg and everything, especially in America. Yes. Fish is no consideration. That is daily affair. And the turkey,... Yes. Instead of preaching here, they have taken the Western method. And Vivekananda's preaching is like Western missionaries-open hospitals, school...
Professor: You are right, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had no spiritual knowledge. So therefore it has not been successful. They are preaching in the Western countries... As far I know, in America they have got ten or twelve branches. I am working for the last six years only. I have got already fifty branches. And each branch, there are devotees like them, not less than twenty-five, up to two hundred, three hundred, all dedicated souls.
Prabhupāda:
- śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra
- vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra
- (CC Adi 8.15)
If you are sane man, if you give due consideration, and then give your judgement, then you'll find that it is wonderful. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. We don't say that you take it blindly. No. Vicāra. After full logic, and consideration, you accept, not blindly. But if you do that, you'll see it is wonderful. It is wonder... So why those who are advanced in education, they should not take this movement seriously and try to understand seriously and cooperate with us? It is not a blind thing. So... Actually, from government level, we are not getting any support. Not... I don't speak in India. Anywhere.
Ambassador: Yes, I am aware of the government problem.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Because they think, "Oh, it is religious." Not only they are... In America there are big, big foundation. As soon as we submit some petition, "Help us," "No, no, we don't help any religious movement." That's all. We don't get any help. Simply Kṛṣṇa has given us this chance of selling these books. That's all. Nobody's cooperating. Rather, when our people go to sell these literatures and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they're arrested and harassed.
Banker: I haven't read most of this. I have a tiny one in my hotel room. There is a Gītā society in this country, leaves a Gītā in every hotel room. I have only read a few selections. Like the Gideons, the Bible. You go in any hotel in India now and you have one Bible placed by the Gideons and one Gītā by this Gītā (indistinct) Prabhupāda: Gītā Press. Sit down, I am coming. (break) In the U.S., I understand, there are 75,000 libraries.
Prajāpati: There is no trust without obedience.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. There is no... There is no question of trust. Yes. That is, that is the first requirement in the Bhagavad-gītā. "You surrender unto Me." That means: "You trust." I cannot surrender unto you if I do not trust you. That is trust. I don't believe you; how can I trust you? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is full trust. "Yes, I must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. He, He..." Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura sings,
- mānasa deha geha jo kichu mora
- arpilūṅ tuwā pade nanda-kiśora
Nanda-kiśora, Kṛṣṇa, now I fully surrender unto You. And what I have got? I have got my mind, I have got my body, and I have got my family. So everything I surrender unto You. Deha, geha everything." This is our possession. Otherwise... I cannot say, "I possess this universe." But I can say, "I possess this body. I have got some mind. And I have got some little family. So everything I surrender unto You." Mānasa deha geha jo kichu..., arpilūṅ tuwā pade nanda-kiśora. Now what kind of surrender? Mārobi rākhobi, jo icchā tohārā. "Now I have surrendered. If you want, you can kill me. And if You want, You can keep me." This is surrender. This is trust. "If You like, you can kill me. And if You like, you can save me." Jo icchā tohārā. "That depends on Your free will because You are completely independent." This is surrender. This is trust. Then activities begins. Then he will act according to the order of Kṛṣṇa. When he has surrendered, he'll do as Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Just like our students are doing. They have surrendered unto me. I am dictating, "You do this. You worship like this." They are doing. This is surrender. They are doing. "You chant like this You live like this. You worship like this." This is surrender. So, without any consideration, whether this chanting... Of course, there must be consideration. Otherwise, how they are doing? But this obedience is there. That is called surrender.
Prabhupāda: ...that... We talk in relationship, everything, because this is relative world. Everything we talk, that is in relative consideration. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. They do not accept the relativity. Although when there is some toothache, he will go to the doctor. Why does he not..., "No, it is māyā. Why I shall be troubled with the toothache?" Why does he go to the doctor? That is the defect of Māyāvāda philosophy. They are being affected by the change, but still, they will say, "There is no change. It is all the same."
Karandhara: Well, that is what they say. They say, "If it is all the same, then I can go to the doctor."
Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is foolishness. If they say once that "The suffering and not suffering is all the same," why does he go to the doctor?
Karandhara: Well, when you say, "It's all the same," it doesn't matter what you do. You have encompassed everything.
Girirāja: But they always go.
Karandhara: That doesn't matter. If they don't go or do go, it's all the same. It doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: That means it doesn't matter... If I beat you with shoes, it doesn't matter? Why do you become angry?
Karandhara: Well, it doesn't matter that I become angry.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) So let me beat you. You don't become angry or become angry, I don't care.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes, I have seen.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In other governments the people are starving. They have no food. That is the worst government. First necessity of life, that one must eat, one must have shelter, but other governments cannot even do that. But in your country, you have got enough food, enough shelter, everything is there. That consideration, your government is very nice government. Bare necessities of life must be supplied. Here the fault is extravagancy.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Too much.
Prabhupāda: Too much, yes. Luxury leads to poverty. Too much luxury. Now it will deteriorate.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Bad condition, good condition, that is another thing. But you get it. You get it. Bad condition, good condition, that is my consideration, but things are available. Even the best apartment in India, that is not a good apartment for America. This is simply my mental concoction: "This is good; that is bad." I am thinking, "It is the best;" another may think, "Oh, it is lowest." The hog is thinking stool is very nice food, and I am thinking, "What is this nonsense thing?" So "best" and "good", it is simply mental concoction, it has no value. Just like these western people, what is their ultimate standard of best, nobody knows. Nobody knows. Just like hundred years before, there was no skyscraper building, but now even best skyscraper building is not best. So where is the standard of best and... It is all mental concoction.
Sudāmā: Just like in New York, at one time the Empire State Building was the biggest; now they have built two buildings that are the biggest in the world now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now someday it will be lowest.
Satsvarūpa: Yes, already in Chicago they're building one, a Sears building.
Bali Mardana: Bigger.
Prabhupāda: So what is the standard of best and lowest. There is no standard. This is called māyā.
Prabhupāda: Same thing here even. Majority wants to be godless. So government is following that. Therefore they are against our movement. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. Namaskāra. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Now the vox populi. Majority wants to become drunkards. "All right, it is legalized." Majority wants prostitute hunters. "All right. It is legalized." This is government. No consideration of morality or religion. Majority wants, it must be given.
Dr. Patel: No, but, I mean, it is all... It must fall. There is no culture. This is a total degeneration of the humanity at large.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They must suffer. And they're suffering. Still, they're blind.
Dr. Patel: So-called followers of Christianity actually killing Christ every day.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why do you take Christianity? Everyone. Everyone.
Dr. Patel: No, but they are majority. They...
Prabhupāda: Everyone. Your Hindus also.
Prabhupāda: So much, lying vacant. They have taken it into consideration that "What is the use of working in the land? Better kill one animal and eat easily." Because he doesn't care for sinful activities. The... "If I can eat the cow, why shall I take so much trouble to till the...?" This is going on, all over the world.
Indian man: Employment means now just to cut the money and not to work. No work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) The same... Employment, even for the woman, the carakā. You see? Gandhi also studied this. There must be... Woman should be engaged for weaving. What is called?
Devotee: Spinning.
Prabhupāda: Spinning, yes. Everyone should be engaged. That is management. So all GBC members must see that in every temple, everyone is engaged.
Brahmānanda: That is the meaning of leadership.
Prabhupāda: That is the meaning of leadership.
Prabhupāda: You follow, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2), gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80), servant of the servants of the servant of, then this is our.
Guru dāsa: That's the consideration. Advancement is (indistinct). (break)
Harikeśa: I know I am making mistakes.
Prabhupāda: Why do you preach?
Harikeśa: That's my question.
Prabhupāda: Stop preaching.
Harikeśa: Ah.
Prabhupāda: If you know your mistakes and you're preaching, why this nonsense preaching?
Harikeśa: Preaching must be perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfect means as you have heard from your spiritual master. (indistinct) We are not perfect, none of us, but if you perfectly follow the orders of the perfect, then you are perfect. You should not think that "I have become perfect." Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, guru more mūrkha dekhi (CC Adi 7.71). He presented Himself as fool number one. So we should always keep ourself as fool number one, that "I am not perfect. I am fool number one." But whatever I am doing I am carrying the orders of the perfect.
Chandobhai: After he attains that, these qualities are the test of that man, how we can test that man?
Prabhupāda: No, no, testing, that is also stated. Just like these Europeans, Americans, in their previous position, they had many bad habits. But somehow or other, they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is their position, guṇātīta. Even by habit they commit something mistake, that is not to be taken into account. Because... Just hear. Just like a fan is moving, and make the switch off. So the switch is off. That is first consideration. And after the switch being off, the fan is moving, that is no consideration. Do you understand? Because the fan was in force, so you, although you have made the switch off, still moving.
Chandobhai: Still moving, yeah.
Prabhupāda: That is not to be taken into account.
Chandobhai: That is not to be... Yes, correct. Because old, past actions.
Prabhupāda: Yes!
Prabhupāda: Aneka is one. But "Because there is aneka," therefore, "because there is one, therefore no consideration of the aneka." That is not intelligent. Aneka in one. That is real philosophy.
Girirāja: "Bāhū-arms..."
Prabhupāda: Aneka, that is in one. Therefore this aneka is not different from the one. But this aneka does not mean that one. Read.
Girirāja: (continues synonyms) "Translation: O Lord of the universe..."
Prabhupāda: Still, although he saw aneka in Kṛṣṇa, still, he is seeing Kṛṣṇa there. That is real vision.
Girirāja: "O Lord of the universe, I see in Your universal body many, many forms-bellies, mouths, eyes-expanded without limit. There is no end, there is no beginning, and there is no middle to all this."
Prabhupāda: A crude example can be given. Just like a man may be director of this company and trust of that company and so many when he is working. But his wife is feeling that he is her husband. That's all. She does not see anything, although he is working in aneka-rūpam. This is the, a crude example. He has his eyes to see, "Here is my beloved husband." That's all. Just like Yasodamayi. Yasodamayi saw that all the universes within the mouth... She asked, ordered Kṛṣṇa, "I want to see whether you have eaten dirt. Open your mouth." So Kṛṣṇa opened the mouth and not only dirt, but all the universes... So she saw, but she did not believe that Kṛṣṇa can have all these universes. So she said, "All right, that's all right. Don't do it again." She did not take care of the universes. Although Kṛṣṇa is showed him all the universes within the mouth, she was concerned with Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Prabhupāda: This is the consideration. By policy if he could save his wife, that first. He was following like that...
Girirāja: " 'If in the future I get a child who can kill Kaṁsa, just as Kaṁsa is thinking, then both Devakī and the child will be saved, because the law of providence is inconceivable. But now someway or other let me save the life of Devakī.' " (break)
Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.
Girirāja: "Similarly, a living entity may be very careful and fearful in the matter of executing his duties, but it is still very difficult for him to know what type of body he is going to get in the next life. Mahārāja Bharata was very faithfully executing the duties of self-realization, but by chance he contacted temporary affection for a deer, and he had to accept his next life in the body of a deer." (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not liberal. He was truthful. He used to bring all the sons as soon as born to Kaṁsa, and he was killing.
Prabhupāda: Just like this breathing is ethereal, but if there is potency... There is potency. So by being contaminated by my breathing, you become contaminated, and it comes out again as disease. So the ethereal composition is the origin. Then gradually, it develops. Ether into air, air into fire, fire into water, water into earth. (break) ...consideration of the gross thing. How the gross thing coming into existence from subtle thing, they do not know it. That is less intelligent. They cannot think very, what is called, minutely.
Italian Man (1): And beyond ether?
Prabhupāda: Just like the same example. The breathing is coming from a person. So breathing is impersonal, but it is coming from the person. Similarly, originally God is person. In the Bhagavad-gītā everything is explained, "From Me. I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is... This has to be..., how everything is coming from Him. And if we understand how it is coming, then we have to accept that it is coming from the person, not from the imperson. Imperson is secondary manifestation of the person. Just like the fire. Fire is the origin. It has got a form. But secondary manifestation of the fire is heat and light.
Prabhupāda: Just like sometimes our men, my devotee, they wash the cupboard. Does it mean he is a methar(?)? No. He can go to the Deity room also. He is not a methar(?) or sweeper. But sometimes we do that. So devotee is above all these consideration. But because there is management, they should appear as brāhmaṇa, as śūdra, as kṣatriya, like that.
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- māṁ ca vyabhicariṇi
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- (BG 14.26)
A devotee, because he is working as a śūdra, he is not a śūdra; neither he is a brāhmaṇa. He is already in the spiritual platform. But for management we have to do that. One can do the śūdra's work nicely—let him be engaged in that way. Why he should imitate?
Mahāṁsa: Does he get second initiation?
Prabhupāda: Everything he will get.
Yogeśvara: He says, in a sense we're something like the Buddhists because the Buddhists also don't take account of this, of the caste system.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Buddhist or anyone. Just like a person, when he is not educated in medical science he is not a medical man, but when he is properly educated in the medical science and he practices as a medical man, then he is a medical man. So you take it from Buddhism, or Hinduism; it doesn't matter. The thing is, consideration is, guṇa-karma. One must be qualified and he must work. Then he is elevated.
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (2): (French)
Yogeśvara: In other words, he's saying, what we're saying is that spiritually, everyone is equal, which is actually the same as the Christian idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritually, not materially. Materially there must be distinction. Materially there must be distinction. But spiritually there is no distinction.
M. Roche-dieu: Living being.
Prabhupāda: Living, any living. We are all living beings. We are in different dresses. Just like you are European; you have got a different dress. I am an Indian; I have got a different dress. But dress is not consideration. You are a human being; I am a human being. Similarly, all the living entities, they are dressed in 8,400,000's of dresses. But they are living being. And all the living beings are part and parcel of God.
M. Roche-dieu: (French) Life is a whole view, and there is no division between animals and man.
Prabhupāda: Spiritually advanced man, God conscious, there is no such distinction that "Here is an animal; here is a man." He sees that spirit soul is there in the animal and in the man, in the tree, in the plant, in the aquatics, the same spirit soul. Read that.
Prabhupāda: One only, less than minority. (laughter) The minority, majority, these are material conception. And spiritual is how much you are giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That is considered. That is to be taken into consideration. (pause) Kṛṣṇa says Himself, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of millions and millions of people, one may understand Me." So if I have turned so many people to understand Kṛṣṇa, so that is service. At least, they are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...in winter in December, when I was going to the park, Regents Park, all the waters, frozen like stone, and with this stick, I was pushing, (makes sound-imitation:) "Tung, tung," like that. But I marked it that underneath the tree, there was no frozening. The water was there. Just like here is a tree. Just below the tree, there was water. And all around, frozen. The swans were walking on the... But on that place, they were floating. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause)
Yogeśvara: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists say that the life, life first came from the water. They say that life first came from water. In the beginning, there were one-celled creatures that were formed from chemicals in the water.
Prabhupāda: That we also say, pralaya-payodhi-jale **. Because the whole planet was submerged in water, so there was life in water, aquatics, fishes. That is not a very new thing. We know it.
Prabhupāda: Oh, sandeśa. It is milk preparation. Give him one more. No, no. This sandeśa, you give him one more. So our recommendation is, "Don't kill cow." Take milk and make thousands of preparations, all nutritious and very healthy. They do not know how to use cow. Instead of killing, if we take, let the animal live and give us milk, and from the milk, we make hundreds of preparations. The milk is nothing but blood, transformation of blood. So we take the blood by killing the animal, but we do not wish to kill such an important animal, but they take the blood in form of milk and make preparation. And those who are flesh-eaters, let them wait for the death of the cow. Then let them eat the flesh, not living condition. So we are making preparation that keep the cows, protect the cows, and when the cow dies, the flesh-eater may take it away. So he can take the skin, he can take the hoof, he can take the horn, he can take the flesh, everything, whatever he likes. Because when it is dead, it is no more useful for us. So the others, who are interested with the skin, in the flesh, in the hoof, they can take it. And they get it free. Without any cost. Because after death, we don't want it. So this is our program. Let the cows live. We take sufficient milk. We are getting milk, one thousand pounds. One thousand pounds daily in our, one center, New Vrindaban, Virginia. So we are making various preparations from the milk, and they are very happy, and the cows are also happy. So this is one of our programs, to stop killing this important animal. And the flesh-eaters may wait a little until the cow dies. Then he gets the opportunity. Why there should be slaughterhouse maintained? As you are one of the leading citizens of Paris, we appeal to you to take up this consideration seriously. Why we should maintain slaughterhouse? If we want to eat the flesh, let us wait till the death. And there will be death. There is no doubt about it. So why they should maintain slaughterhouse? And this is most cruelty. A animal which is giving milk, so important foodstuff, and that is being killed, it does not suit any moral sense of any human being. On the contrary, according to Vedic system, there are seven mothers. And cow is accepted one of them. Because she gives milk, and we take her milk, therefore she's our mother. So this is our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it.
Madhudviṣa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden.
Madhudviṣa: So what enables a person to do that?
Prabhupāda: No... But principle is that you try to understand that you are not this body. That is applicable in all time, all circumstances, all, for everyone. It is not that formerly one had to learn that he's not this body, and now that is not required. The same problem is there still. Arjuna, five thousand years ago he was given lesson about this, that "You are not this body; you are soul." The same problem is now also for the foolish person because the foolish person will always remain in the world, and the intelligent man is to teach him. This is fact always, without any consideration of time, space, and circumstance. There will be certain class of men, foolish, and there will be certain class of men who are intelligent. So the foolish man has to take intelligence from the intelligent man. This is perpetually truth in this material world. It is not, time and circumstances changes this principle. There will be foolish men. Just like now we read, "Two classes of men are there always, the demons and the demigods." So at the present moment more demons. Two classes of men are there always, but at the present moment the demons, number of demons, are more and number of demigods are less because it is Kali-yuga.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...he did not like to kill his cousin-brother. He said that "Even they usurp my kingdom, I do not wish to kill them." So this affection, this bodily affection, was not very much approved by Kṛṣṇa. He said that "You are talking like a non-Āryan." Anārya-juṣṭam. Anārya. "The Āryan, they do not think like that." Another place He says that "You are giving consideration on the body, but any learned man does not refer to body, either dead or alive. They, learned man, will give stress on the moving force of the body." So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means basically on the moving force of the body.
Reporter: The moving force of...?
Prabhupāda: Of the body. Just like you are moving, I am moving. As soon as the moving force, whatever it is, is gone, then your body is a lump of matter, my body is a lump of matter.
Prabhupāda: In the missionary consideration, they can do that.
Jayādvaita: What will be the position with the Chinese if the Russians and Americans fight?
Prabhupāda: Well I am not a politician. (laughter) China does not war, not want war. They want to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Develop.
Prabhupāda: Construct.
Rūpānuga: They're not ready.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not very much interested in war.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that this war will destroy the demonic civilization.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest 3: It's the indirect way because God wants people to be happy. Now, if you can help people, if you can help people as people, surely that means that you must be pleasing God.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all... Suppose you are a lawyer, and some man has committed murder, and he wants your help. And suppose by your legal tricks you save him. So that will not please God. (laughter)
Guest 3: You've got a different consideration here.
Guest 2: You've got a lot of places and names for that.
Guest 3: We've got a different consideration here, you see, because the law that we have is very different from God's law. And I think that... (break)
Prabhupāda: You must accept God's law, not the people's law.
Guest 1: Well, the problem is that we're confined by the state law here just as the boys with the flowers. Now, maybe in Kṛṣṇa's law they did nothing wrong, but they were still subjected to being taken away like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he saved them. He saved them.
Paramahaṁsa: So by joining this movement we come to the platform where we can take birth in India in a nice brāhmaṇa family?
Prabhupāda: No, you can go directly also, if you want to finish your business. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). This is a consideration, who, one who fails in executing. But if you become successful, then you go directly where Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there in some universe. So those who are completely liberated, they go to that universe. Just like when Kṛṣṇa comes here, in each and every universe there is a Vṛndāvana. So in that Vṛndāvana one takes birth. Then goes to original Vṛndāvana. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: Those who are not able to maintain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, then they may have to go to India next lifetime.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmatam, śrīmatāṁ śucīnāṁ.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So śrīmatāṁ, you can get here. Śrīmatam means rich, rich family. Here you get many families, Ford family... But śrīmatāṁ and śucīnāṁ. So if you are creating so many brāhmaṇas, so if this cult is permanent, then there will be many brāhmaṇa family here also.
Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately. The Indian culture was checked by the caste brāhmaṇas, that "This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for the Hindus." Therefore it was not spread. Such a great thing, philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, remained covered because they thought it is meant for the Hindus, for the Indians, or those who came out of India, they misinterpreted in a rubbish way. And now it is being presented as it is, it is becoming effective. Therefore apratihatā: nothing material can check its progress. Unless one voluntarily refuses it, there is no checking.
Brahmānanda: Also different planets?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone can become devotee. There is no harm. It is not that because one is in the lower species, he cannot become a devotee. Everyone can become a devotee. (break) ...yoni, they can also become perfect devotee. (break) This is the power of God. He can deliver anyone without any consideration. Therefore paṇḍita is sama-darśinaḥ, he does not make these divisions. He sees that "He is spirit soul. So let him be delivered." That's all. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśināh (BG 5.18). Materially there is division. He is black, he is white, he is this, he is that. This is material. Spiritually, there is no division. One. (break) They make, what is called, spiritual division also. That is their foolishness. Spiritually there is no division. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Indian man (3): Yes. I mean they have lost their self-respect for that.
Prabhupāda: No consideration. They are actually like cats and dogs. This is going on. (break) Nobody knows what is soul; nobody knows what is the goal of life; nobody knows what is the necessity of the soul. These things are not discussed, neither they know it. So-called religious institution or so-called..., they do not know. It is only mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, and that... They do not take care of this Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own ways of...
Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement? This is going on. (break)...sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Veda means knowledge. So the ultimate knowledge is to know God.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just sitting on the beach.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only sitting, they have no other engagement. They do not know how human life should be utilized. They do not know. They are simply taking consideration of the body, running or skating or this or that, but they have no other engagement. They do not believe that there is soul and that soul's business is first business. They do not know that, neither they do accept it. They are under nature's law, very simply explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, dehino ’smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. By nature's law you have to change your body. It is evident. Still, they will not believe. We’re changing body every moment, and they will say, big, big professors, that after the body is finished, everything is finished. This is ajñāna. And that is going on as education, whole world. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is in ignorance, so we are giving them wise instruction. They are thinking, "These people are crazy men." That's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now the Indian government—if this is true—they are giving visas to the devotees, and that means they are favorable towards the movement more and more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It may be due to my interview with Indira Gandhi. I appealed to her that "No Indians are joining, and these Europeans, Americans, they are helping me. And if they are asked to go away, then how shall I maintain the establishment? Indians are not coming." So they might have studied that "They are not politician, and this movement... Everyone will appreciate God consciousness. They are doing something," this consideration. Otherwise it is surprising. They have given three years.
Indian man: And because they have not seen, therefore they say that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here people take in consideration of his position. That is rascaldom. One should not think... There are varieties of life. And how they're in the sun? There is life. So you cannot conceive that there is life in the sun, but there is life. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa went there and talked with the president of the sun? The president means he's alone there? President means there is kingdom. They have got body made of fire. Can you imagine there can be body made of fire?
Indian man: If Kṛṣṇa says, then there must be.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is our business. But you cannot interpret. They cannot accommodate within their tiny brain what is going on in the creation. They think in their own way. That's it. Now, they say that the water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen. And who supplied so much hydrogen, oxygen?
Indian man: God.
Prabhupāda: What is the problem? But still, these rascals will say that he is right. You see? He cannot even analyze properly, and still he is obstinate; he is right. This rascaldom is going on. And if we say "rascal," they are angry. Murkhayopadeṣo hi prakopaya na śanti...: "To a rascal, if you give the right instruction, they will be simply angry." That's all. Not pacification, they will be angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujanganam kevalaṁ visa-vardhanam: "Just like the serpent, rascal. If you give him milk, he'll drink it and increase his poison." That's it. The result will be he will increase his poison. Better to keep them starvation. Therefore everyone, as soon as one sees the serpent, immediately kills. No consideration. "Here is a serpent. Kill him." Similarly, immediately we see the scientists, kill. (laughter) That is the only proccess. So-called scientists. So do you agree, Harikeśa, for kicking on the face of these rascals or not?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) In your country nobody likes white, they have begun to tan. So you are not (in) good shape in consideration of ladies. (chuckling) How you can say that it is not in good shape? It has got another lady to appreciate. You may not appreciate. One man, lady, may not appreciate your beauty but that does not mean you are not beautiful.
Caitya-guru: It says ulu.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Caitya-guru: Name of that tree.
Devotee: Ulu.
Harikeśa: Sometimes the trees just die because there's not sufficient . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not the standard that you do not like somebody, therefore he is not liked by others. That is not very good argument. That is applicable everywhere. The point is that it is a living entity, it so stout and strong, who is giving him food? That is the point.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: Cause of the cause of the cause.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These are only outward...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are.... In logic there are two causes: immediate cause and remote cause. So remote cause is taken into consideration.
Dr. Patel: The important cause is the Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: That Vijaya Datta(?) is interested for gurukula.
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why not construct a big building for gurukula here? The students will be trained up to come here and sporting, having nice bath and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and build up their character. And in Bombay you will get many children, because there are so many rich men. They are not so much concerned to make their children technologist. If they get good education and character, they will give. Technologists they can purchase. Birla, they are not going to be technologist. They purchase technologist. I have seen in many respectable Marwari house. They don't send their children to school. They don't send.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is supplying everything without any surrendering. (Hindi) But that care and outside-the-jail care, there is little difference. In the prison house, even one is very highly qualified, and if he applies for some good post, he will not be given. He'll not be given. But outside the prison? "Yes, you are qualified. Come on." The same government, the same man, but so long one is criminal, there is no consideration. (break) Yes, regularly I get at one o'clock.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One night Prabhupāda rang the buzzer; it was twelve-thirty.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda was translating.
Prabhupāda: Yes, sometimes earlier.
Dr. Patel: I get up at three-thirty. It is not possible to get up at one o'clock. You must not be sleeping...
Prabhupāda: Not more than three hours. I go to sleep at ten and I get up at one.
Guru-kṛpā: I think we should tell.... Vāsudeva dāsa is getting his brāhmaṇa thread this afternoon? Prabhupāda: Eh? Guru-kṛpā: Are you giving him his brāhmaṇa initiation this afternoon? Prabhupāda: He has come? Guru-kṛpā: No. Prabhupāda: We can do that tomorrow. So it has been settled where we are going? Guru-kṛpā: Well, I have to go to the airport this evening. Prabhupāda: No, with Vāsudeva.
Prabhupāda: So this movement should be pushed very vigorously. And so far, we have become successful. And enemies will be always, as soon as there is something good. That is the way of material world. Even Kṛṣṇa had enemies, what to speak of us. Eh? So many enemies, but He was powerful; He killed all them. Nobody could kill Him, but there was attempt to kill Him from the very beginning of His birth. He had so many enemies. As soon as Kaṁsa heard that his sister is now newly married, but as soon as there was some foretelling, "Ah, you are taking care of your sister so nicely. The eighth child of this sister will kill you." "Oh, where is your child? Where is pregnancy?" Nothing. He became angry. "So why wait for eighth child? Kill my sister." Long, long before taking birth of Kṛṣṇa, the mother was to be killed. This is the position of this material world. So he became so bad that "My sister..." He did not consider that "She is my sister, and she is just newly married. Where is pregnancy? Where is child? And that is the eighth child, and what will happen after that?" No consideration. Immediately, "Kill him, kill her." This is the position. So we are instructing: no intoxication. So those who are flourishing by selling cigarettes and wine and liquor, they do not... "Immediately kill him." Oh, yes, in this way. "If they, the movement goes and becomes very strong, then our business will be lost. Kill him." So naturally they will be enemies.
Prabhupāda: So in this way... You are all intelligent, you can plan. The aim is how to distribute books. That is first consideration. (break) In Bhāgavata it is very figuratively described that we have got this body and the different parts. Just like Arjuna is sitting on the chariot. There is chariot driver, there are horses, reins. There is field, and the arrow, and the bow. They have been figuratively. So this can be used for killing the enemies of our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness and then give up all this paraphernalia, chariot, we... Just like after fighting, only victory, then you kill them. And similarly this body is there, the mind is there, the senses are there. So utilize it for conquering over this material existence. And then give up this body and go back to home.
Prabhupāda: That is going on. Religion is not very important.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It's not one of their major considerations.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex, that is their consideration. Animal activities.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But one advantage of this is that all of the.... Just like they make a lot of studies of various countries.
Prabhupāda: "Studies" means if they do not take the science of God as the most important items. Then they'll say: "Yes, you have freedom, you can do. I have got my freedom."
Mahendra: Oh, okay, I must have heard wrong.
Prabhupāda: If there is service and, on my fasting, service will be stopped, then I can take. First consideration, service. Now if somebody feels weak, he can take mahā-prasāda, render service.
Rāmeśvara: That priest that has now become your disciple, he's joining Satsvarūpa Mahārāja's party. He's very interested, and Satsvarūpa Mahārāja has said he would like him to come to travel together and study.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. The life is there. You make some arrangement that it will not take part. That is another thing. If it is a fact that the egg is not life, then why you rascal do not manufacture a chemical egg and get a chicken? Why you rascal talking nonsense? That is our challenge. We say "rascals" not without consideration, because actually they talk like nonsense. Rascals. They cannot do, and still they'll insist they will do. That is rascal. Is it all right? (laughs) South, South America, er, South Africa, there are so many factories of begetting chicken.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Rainbow Chicken Factory.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the chicken factory, but they're taking the eggs from chicken. Why not manufacture small egg and give to the fermentation and come? There is no question of killing animals. Why they are taking?
Rādhāvallabha: They say God has provided it for us for food.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then you become a dog. God has provided you a dog's body. Take advantage of it and bark. (laughter) Protest. "Why You have made me? Why You are doing?" (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will give all facilities if we are sincerely serving Kṛṣṇa. The government gives all facilities to the government servant. The government gives all facilities to the soldiers. When there is fight, there is scarcity of commodities in the civil life, but there is no scarcity among the soldiers. The first consideration, soldiers. Similarly, those devotees who are fighting against māyā, their facility is first concern. They're fighting, trying to save the people from the onslaught of material energy. That will be explained. What is next verse?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Tat prayāso na kartavyo yata āyur-vyayaḥ param, na tathā.
Prabhupāda: What is previous verse before that?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityāḥ.
Prabhupāda: We have discussed this.
Prabhupāda: Māyāpur. My idea is to attract people of the whole world to Māyāpur. So we are just trying to acquire three hundred fifty acres of land from the government. It is going on under consideration. Some men are against and some are in favor. But those who are against, they have counted ninety?
Hari-śauri: Ninety against, two thousand for.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That means money was spent unnecessarily, without any tangible result. Now Dayānanda left. He was there.... Without any consideration, he left. So what to do with all these things?
Jagadīśa: I think I have it under control. I have plans...
Prabhupāda: You see these two things especially, that they.... English is their mother tongue, mother language. They can easily become English scholar very easily. And Sanskrit language is no difficulty. Read and write, read and write, then he will learn. Our education in Sanskrit was in college. Of course, I was the best student in my class of Sanskrit. I was standing first. But we are not like the so-called Sanskrit scholars. But for our purpose we can read and write, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Ah, janmācāra. First of all, janma, the family, heredity, was taken into consideration, but that is now forgotten. Get money. Just like in England the British empire's policy was that you bring money from outside and deposit in the government treasury and you become lord. Is it not? Bring money, some way or other. So that was going on, exploiting, they used to go to the foreign countries and somehow or other accumulate money. Just like Lord Clive. He was a street boy, but he made some policy. In this way, diplomacy, he entered into Bengal and got some money, and Lord Clive, he became Lord Clive. So money is the criterion. Some way or other, bring money. That's all. That's a fact. These are the symptoms. Just try to understand.
Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.
Prabhupāda: If you have money, then you are aristocratic, then whatever you do, it is all right. Janmācāra, then?
Pradyumna: Guṇa.
Prabhupāda: Guṇa. You are most qualified man. You may be a drunkard, you may be a prostitute hunter, whatever you may be, but because of money you are a qualified man.
Prabhupāda: Abhirucir, yes. Now formerly marriage was a religious ceremony. Marriage was, this boy and this girl should be married, it is a religious function where the father and mother will see their horoscope and see if they are compatible, they will agree, they will live peacefully, so many things are there. Still, in India such things are calculated by the parents of the boy and the girl. But in this Kali-yuga, dāmpatye abhirucir. Abhirucir means the boy and the girl, if he likes, if he says, that's all. No other calculation. And the, after three days after marriage, there is divorce. (laughter) Because abhirucir, "I like, I don't like," that's all. Now I like, and after three days I don't like, finished, business. In Chicago I saw a newspaper. One girl, within three weeks she has divorced two husbands. (laughter) Yes, I saw it in the newspaper. So this, formerly the father, mother used to see that this boy and this girl are going to be married. So by horoscope, by other circumstances, by family, cultural, by education, so many things, whether they will live peacefully. That was the understanding. Husband-wife means, a man requires a woman, a woman requires a man. They should be combined in such a way that they can live peacefully. If there is no disturbance of the mind, then they can make further progress in spiritual life. Therefore marriage is also necessary, and that must be properly done. This was the... Now there is no such consideration. The boys and girls are free, and if one likes the other... Dāmpatye, what is that?
Prabhupāda: They were happy. Otherwise they could not fight. They are not Vietnam soldiers, when they are attacked they are going away. They are not like that. They are determined that "I'll either lay down life or gain victory." That is their... They were not afraid of fighting. Do you think they were afraid of fighting? That is real kṣatriya. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. That is real kṣatriya training.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I mean to say that they may consider that this is a selfish type of happiness, though. Not taking into consideration...
Prabhupāda: They may think... They are rascals, they cannot think anything. We haven't got to reply all of them. Because they are rascals. They can talk all nonsense. We haven't got to take care of... Just like a child, he's talking so many foolish things. Sometimes we reply, "Yes, yes, we know." But we don't take seriously anything, anything spoken by a child. So these rascals may go on talking so many things, but we haven't got to take care of all of them. We have to do our own business. Let the dog bark on, the caravan will pass. So not that we have to take care of the barking of the dog always.
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This business of simply taking economics into consideration...
Prabhupāda: They do not. Rascals... How to live, they do not know. Animals. There is a class of men in India, they take, I told you, the dead body of a cow.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Cobblers.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mucis?
Prabhupāda: Muci, yes. Their business is shoe maker. So when the cow is dead, they take it, they eat the meat and take the skin and the hoof. They make business without any, what is called, investment. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). That is economic. He gets the skin without any price, and he makes shoes and gets full profit. But that is for a class of men, not for all. Economic gain for a cobbler is not the economic gain for a brāhmaṇa. "One man's food another man's poison."
Prabhupāda: Certainly.
- tapasā brahmacaryeṇa
- śamena damena va
- tyāgena sattva-śaucābhyāṁ
- yamena niyamena vā
- (SB 6.1.13)
To advance in spiritual life these things are essential, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting something which may be painful. Just like we are recommending no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating. So those who are accustomed to these bad habits, for them, in he beginning it may be a little difficult. But in spite of becoming difficult, one has to do it. That is called tapasya. To rise early in the morning, those who are not practiced, it is a little painful, but one has to do it. So this is called tapasya. So according to the Vedic injunction, there are some tapasyas that must be done. It is not, "I may do it or not do it." It must be done. Just like in the Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad it is ordered that one must go to the spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So there is no question of voluntarily, but it must be. And one must carry out by the order of a spiritual master and the order of the śāstra. That is called tapasya. Just like in our line ekādaśī is compulsory. One may feel some inconvenience fasting or simply eating fruits. No. It must be done. There are so many rules and regulations which is essential. It must be done. That is called tapasya. Without consideration whether it is convenient or inconvenient for you, which is, must be done, that is called tapasya. Tapaḥ, divyam... Just like Rsabhādeva orders that this human life is meant for tapasya. Therefore in our Vedic civilization we find so many rules and regulations.
Prabhupāda: So that is not possible in this... Taking consideration of the time, circumstances, it is not possible. There are different kinds of karma-kāṇḍīya-yajña. It is expensive also and there is no expert brāhmaṇa to guide how to perform this yajña. So Kali-yuga, it is not possible to perform yajñas. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ (SB 12.3.52). In the Treta-yuga yajñas were possible. Dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt, that in this age of Kali-yuga the real yajña is hari-kīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Therefore those who are intelligent, having good brain substance, they take to this yajña, saṅkīrtana-yajña. And practically we are experiencing, simply by saṅkīrtana-yajña, even the lowest person in the sinful activities, he is becoming purified. So karma-kāṇḍa is, to revive them in this age is not possible. Neither jñāna-kanda. That is also not possible. People are so fool and rascal that it is impossible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is this practical in the present context?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are doing it. See. If anyone has eyes to see they can see how we are accepting the pāpa-yoni, so-called pāpa-yoni to become the topmost Vaiṣṇava, that is possible. Unless it is possible how it is being done all over the world? There is no consideration. The process is so effective that it is being done. They are taking it as a proselytization. But it is not proselytizing. Proselytization is superflous. If one is Hindu you make him a Christian, and you change the name. But what is the use of changing the name if you do not reform him about his character? Simply changing the name from Hindu to Muslim or Muslim to Christian, that does not make him better...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is rather interesting. Question sixteen. "Is it not possible for all sections of Hindus, be they Advaitans, Dvaitans, or viṣiṣṭādvaitans, to come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God. The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking.
Rādhāvallabha: They never take into any consideration there can be another form of life other than that which they know.
Prabhupāda: No, they are speculating. But why people are victimized by this speculation? That is the...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's the amazing thing.
Prabhupāda: They have already failed in one speculation. They went to moon planet with some speculation. That has failed. Why they are given chance, another speculation?
Rādhāvallabha: Everyone believes that they went.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rādhāvallabha: Everyone believes that they went.
Prabhupāda: They went, but what is the benefit? What for they went?
Rādhāvallabha: For scientific exploration. They consider that very noble.
Prabhupāda: Scientific exploration at the expense of these taxpayer?
Rādhāvallabha: They consider it a very noble cause to increase knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That... The same story, that some frogs were there, and children was throwing stone. Then the frogs appealed, "Sir, why you are throwing stone upon us?" "No, we are playing." "So what is play for you, it is death to us." So these rascals are playing, and we have to pay heavy tax for that. This is going on.
Rūpānuga: We had another practical consideration. We were thinking, could BBT publish the journal? BBT would publish the journal?
Prabhupāda: But whether you'll be able to publish regularly.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Quarterly, at the beginning.
Rūpānuga: Four times a year. Every three months.
Prabhupāda: Because it must be very sa-vijñānam, it must be very scientific.
Mr. Boyd: Well, that might depend on what kind of prime minister you were.
Prabhupāda: No, that is possible, I can become prime minister or any big man. But if I do not work properly, if I work like animal, then my next life is animal. There is no consideration that "Here is a prime minister, why he should become a dog?" Nature will act. If you infect some disease, you may be prime minister or you may be a common man, if you have infected that disease, you must suffer from that disease. That is nature's law. There is no consideration that "Here is prime minister. He has infected the malaria germs. He should not suffer." Nature's law if not like that. Just like you say that in India there is malaria. So your daughter was not excused, that "Here is a girl coming of very respectable, good family. She should be excused." No excuse. You have infected malaria germ, you must suffer.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, just it would give... There are so many good... Of course, everywhere there are good devotees, but here there are so many strong preachers that if you stay here on the basis that they had to increase their preaching, we would double and triple our preaching. There's no question. We would throw out all considerations of inconvenience to ourselves and simply preach day and night.
Bali-mardana: Especially New York, the people are ready for it. Like today, they have taken part very nicely. Even the policemen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they're so favorable. Rāmeśvara was commenting. He said he never saw... The climate of the people of New York is unique in America. They are very favorable.
Prabhupāda: So where is that man? Where he has gone? 7-UP can be had anywhere.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible, but if some of the leading men, they take it seriously, then others will follow. Just like in our book, your signature is there, "Oh, George Harrison. Yes." They take it without any consideration. Kṛṣṇa book. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tad tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leading man does something, then his followers also do. This is the way. So if some of the leading men of the world, they take this movement seriously, then people will be happy. There's no doubt about it. You have come alone, without any associate?
George Harrison: Just on my own.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Not only many cars, they construct new roads, new... Increasing business, in the hope of happiness. But there is no happiness.
Hari-śauri: Happiness is the last consideration.
Prabhupāda: They are thinking that "In this way we shall be happy."
Hari-śauri: Get more money.
Prabhupāda: First of all, paved way, then flyway, then another flyway, then another flyway, in this way. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ.
Hari-śauri: They're always striving for happiness, that's all. They never achieve it, they never get there.
Prabhupāda: No. That is called māyā. Just like the animal is running after the mirage, water, but there is no water.
Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ
Prabhupāda: Ah. Vittam means money. So if you have got money, then you are coming from high family. There is no consideration of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. If you have got money, then you are everything. Vittam eva hi?
Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. That is practical, we see. If you have got money, then people will come to you, "Oh, you are so learned, you are so qualified." Just like George, or John Lennon. What qualification they have got? But people will go there and take them as very highly learned and scholar and everything. The press reporters take their opinion. But what is their qualification? The qualification, by selling some records they have got money, that's all. What is that qualification? Now of course, they are coming to, George at least, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Vimṛśya, "Now you think over it." Not that blindly accept. You consider, make your deliberation, and then you do whatever you like. This freedom is given. What is the wrong there? Iti te jñānam ākhyātam, "I've explained to you all kinds of different types of knowledge, and ultimately, guhyatamam, the most confidential knowledge I've spoken to you, that you surrender to Me. Now you deliberate on this point very nicely, and then vimṛśya, then after full consideration, do whatever you like." It's everything up to you. There is no force. "If you want to remain in this material world, remain here, suffer life after life. Otherwise you come to Me." That is your choice. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).
- mām upetya punar janma
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
Everything is there. He says very emphatically, vimṛśya, "Just judge, deliberately, consider it by full consideration. Then decide. You are quite at liberty to do whatever you like. I have spoken everything." This is your position, this is God's position. There is no force. God can force, but there is no force.
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of blind faith. Here it is said that "I have explained to you the knowledge, confidential and most confidential. Now you consider about it, and after due consideration, then do whatever you like." But if you actually appreciate that there is God, here is Kṛṣṇa, so whatever He is saying, it is all right. Sarvam etad 'ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). There is no harm even if you accept His word blindly, there is no harm. Otherwise, if you don't like to follow blindly, then consider what is instructed. And then whatever you like, you can do. Both ways are there. But if you have faith in God, "God is saying this, I must do it," that blind faith is as good. Although it is blind faith, it is the fact. Actually it is not blind faith. It is full faith in God. "God is speaking this; I'll accept it." Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is the position of mahātmā. Although such mahātmās are very rare, but one who accepts this fact that "God is speaking, so let me accept it without any consideration," that is as good as you accept. If gold is real, something real gold is offered to you, you accept it blindly or by checking it, the result is the same.
Prabhupāda: That is being done through books.
Indian man (3): But sir, books are for such people who can read, who can understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes, something can be done by showing the picture, but taking consideration of the labor and money invested in that way, the response will be not satisfactory. It is not possible.
Indian man (3): What I was thinking was that we have a limited...
Prabhupāda: Simply by seeing that Kṛṣṇa is lifting the Govardhana Hill, they'll, many of them will laugh, that "This is all mythology. A boy is lifting Govardhana Hill." Many of them will laugh instead of taking seriously. Because unless one is devotee, he cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as he sees the boy Kṛṣṇa is lifting Govardhana Hill—he does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa-he'll laugh.
Indian man (3): That is elsewhere.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Here also.
Gargamuni: Yes, that's a fact. The Calcutta plan that you had, it is still under consideration. At first the Calcutta corporation refused, but then Abhirāma saw the Minister of Municipal Affairs, Mr. Subata Mukerji.
Prabhupāda: So I gave the meaning.
Gargamuni: He said, "No, I want this." But there's still a problem, is that they'll allow a monument, but they don't want the Deity. They'll allow us to build a monument for Bhaktivedanta Swami but no Deity.
Prabhupāda: Well, then take this proposal: "All right, no Deity." We shall hold meetings, lecture. What is that? In the park people come. And we decorate the whole hall with pictures. Gradually we worship one picture.
Prabhupāda: To be quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa, this is the short-cut process. He never says those who are sitting in a secluded place meditating or chanting, doing nothing. He never says that "They are My very dear devotees." But those who are preaching-na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me (BG 18.69). Just like government takes more care for the soldiers, especially when there is fighting. They are giving life for the state. So their comfort-first consideration. In the warfield, enough supplies. Anything the soldiers require. Enough supplies. Sometimes the store is blown out. And again another store is ready. Therefore in the wartime they control. (break) ...destroy them. And still another store. So therefore supply is sufficient. Civil supplies become controlled. Whatever they want, supply is there. The Britishers, British time. I have seen, in the village they will let loose the soldiers to rape anyone.
Maṇihāra: The sergeants and corporals go first. The leaders of the battalion, they will go first to start to ravage and loot, and then all their men will follow.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere, huh? So I have seen in Calcutta outside villages. So my maternal uncle's house was their "Tally-on." (?) So when they used to come there was a, what is called rumor, "Soldiers come..." They'll captured any woman from the street. No restrictions.
Prabhupāda: And he has called Padma-locana. Similarly, this harijana movement is a farce because they remain the Cāmāra and Bhangis, and still they are called harijana. The same thing. No locana, but padma-locana. Everyone has got right. You can become the most advanced devotee. There is no hindrance. But they must be trained up as harijana. Not that artificially you simply rubberstamp harijana. Therefore that movement is failure. We have no objection to make anyone... Kṛṣṇa says māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower class. Janma-aiśvarya-śruta-śrī, these four things, to take birth in high class family, janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich, and śruta, to become very learned scholar, and śrī, beautiful, these four things are there whose background is pious life. Otherwise, not possible. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). So those who are just the opposite—means not born in very high class family, not... They say "accident." No, it is not accident. According to śāstra, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), there is superior examination. Yamarāja is there. Now, this man is now dead, this soul is now changing body. What kind of body he'll get next? That is judged by the superior authority. Just like in the office a person is promoted. So his record is examined, how he has worked honestly to the interest of the establishment. All this consideration. Then he's given increment of salary or promotion to higher post. This is common sense.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. One can immediately surrender if he likes. The background has nothing to do. Even the background is sinful, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall save you from reaction of sinful life." Then there is no consideration of their background. You simply surrender. Then it will be solved, everything.
Devotee (2): But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, has anyone got the same ability to surrender, because...
Prabhupāda: Everyone has got. If I say, "You surrender," you just... What is... If you disagree, that is another. Otherwise you can surrender immediately. Where is the difficulty?
Devotee (2): So it's just by our personal whim that we can surrender.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can surrender immediately. There is no difficulty. But if he does not, then nobody can induce him. Otherwise, if he likes, he can surrender immediately. And He said, voluntary. Kṛṣṇa does not force. If He would have forced, then He would not say, "You surrender." No, it is your will. If you like, you surrender. If I say, "You do this," that is not force. If you like, you can do. That is your interest. Yathecchasi tathā kuru: (BG 18.63) "Whatever you like, you do that. But I give you the right instruction, that if you surrender, you'll be happy." That is the greatest service. If you teach people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, that is the greatest service. That will solve his all problems. (aside:) Dayānanda has... That's all. Bring water. If you don't surrender, then go on suffering. That's all.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mr. Gupta: Well it's not the consideration of tickets, it's just on the midnight of 31st and 1st. When I was very disturbed, I just got into the train for a drive, being a railway man, and there was just some intuition that I came here and I had your darśana.
Prabhupāda: When you came?
Mr. Gupta: On the 3lst and lst. On the lst morning. And from that I... As happens to be, I've been coming every day.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Money is no consideration.
Dr. Patel: Apart from that, sir, after all, it is a disease, poverty. If the people are out of poverty, then they will think about... First they'll think about God in the stomach. Then anywhere else.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not the fact.
Trivikrama: Out of poverty, then they'll think about wine and women.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But that is in America, not...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere.
Prabhupāda: That he'll do... If we get free, you send.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, if they just tell me that will take a week for them to get the answer, then should I wait for a week before starting the advertising campaign?
Prabhupāda: No, the free, that is consideration. Let them give freely. You take advantage.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: OK.
Prabhupāda: So where is Jagadīśa?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's in his room.
Prabhupāda: I called him. Where is that... I made the...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Advertisement.
Prabhupāda: Advertisement, yes. So just exactly to that...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Simply I have not added the name.
Prabhupāda: There is no consideration of big profit. Simply we want big number, distribution. That's all.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also this will increase our prestige as a movement.
Prabhupāda: Big number, as big as possible. My Guru Mahārāja, he had magazines in six languages: English, Hindi, Bengali, Oriya, Assamese, and one Bengali daily. So if our men complained that "Such and such men are not giving their subscription, so, what we can do? Stop the supply?" Oh, he would become very angry. He asked them, "Are you commercial-hired fools? No! Supply free!" He used to say like that. He was asking, "Whether we shall stop supply? The subscription is not coming." So immediately he became angry: "Are you commercial-hired? If he's not giving price, supply him free." That was his policy. So less perfect or..., try to see how many numbers of books.
Hari-śauri: "...who even at the point of death was requesting the physician to prolong his life for four years more because his plans were not yet complete. Such foolish people do not know that a physician cannot prolong life even for a moment. When the notice is there, there is no consideration of the man's desire. The laws of nature do not allow a second beyond what one is destined to enjoy. The demoniac person, who has no faith in God or the Supersoul within himself, performs all kinds of sinful activities simply for sense gratification. He does not know that there is a witness sitting within his heart. The Supersoul is observing the activities of the individual soul. As it is stated in Vedic literature, the Upaniṣads, there are two birds sitting in one tree. One is acting and enjoying or suffering the fruits of the branches, and the other is witnessing. But one who is demoniac has no knowledge of Vedic scripture, nor has he any faith. Therefore he feels free to do anything for sense enjoyment, regardless of the consequence."
Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all. One of the first-class rascal in darkness is your Darwin. He's in favor of Darwin's theory. Another first-class demon is that Freud. (laughter) These are the guides of the modern civilization. Anthropomorphism.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to stock huge stock in Calcutta. Burma Sale. And new tin, if you exchange the container, then six annas less. Not very costly. Of course, in those days it was costly, taking consideration of the purchasing power of money. Four rupees, I remember, a few annas. My father did not like to purchase anything retail. For his daily necessity he'll purchase, he would purchase potato, one bag. So one bag means, maybe, one rupee, eight annas. (laughs) One anna per seer, kilo, I have purchased. Rice, fifteen mounds he will purchase. And what is the price? Three rupees, four annas. First-class rice. Coal, this coal, coke. Five annas per mound, purchase one cart load, fifteen mounds. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees per month in those days. And taking gold standard, my mother was purchasing gold from my cousin—he has gold shop-twenty rupees per tolā, first-class gold. Now it is six hundred rupees per tolā. (break) ...in those days thirty rupees per month. For thirty rupees, clerical staff, if you increase thirty times, how much it comes?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nine hundred.
Prabhupāda: That is your consideration. But if you are going to add nice pictures, these words can be explained. Rāmeśvara: Yes. Also, because in the Tenth Canto there are so many descriptions of Kṛṣṇa's activities, so Kṛṣṇa has sent more artists.
Bali-mardana: ...8.3. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: No consideration. Kill them. Due to Paraśurāma, the kṣatriyas went to European side, fled away. From India either they were driven away or killed when they become inconsistent with Vedic rules. So these kṣatriyas and associates... These parts of the world were resided by aborigines, mean uncivilized class. So for so many years associated with them, they have learned killing the an... Otherwise they're Aryans.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fallen Aryan culture.
Prabhupāda: Bas. They have fallen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you are raising them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Always ready. That will clear my urine. That I have experimented. And I don't require that exacting tablet. That tablet by chemical reaction exacts. And when there is no urine, it exacts blood.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what's wrong with these modern medicines. They work mechanically. They don't take consideration of the particular conditions.
Prabhupāda: But this miśri water, ḍāb water, that is natural. So you keep in stock ḍāb water, miśri water always. Our, this scientific program is giving me extra strength to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like you are giving more stress to science in recent years than previously.
Prabhupāda: That is required for convincing the modernized man. To ordinary man, the logic, "There is no God, I cannot see," that we have defied.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Similarly, how many men will understand or not understand, that is not the consideration. But we have got in India such exalted knowledge. We must cultivate and distribute knowledge as far as possible. It is our duty. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). You understand Bengali?
Mr. Koshi: No.
Prabhupāda: "Anyone who has taken birth as human being in India, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra, first of all make your life successful by understanding what is life, and then distribute." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. You have got this asset. You have rejected.
Prabhupāda: So why not attempt? At least keep an ideal institution. Just like for technical knowledge, if there is a good medical college any part of the world, people go there without any consideration of nationality or anything. Similarly let there be an ideal institution in India so that the whole world will come in there.
Mr. Rajda: We had those universities, Taka(?), Silandar(?), and Narandhara...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Rajda: ...in ancient days.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That means we don't take any importance. But now, if you want to do something, then you maintain this institution rigidly, follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. It doesn't require many men. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient. You don't require millions of stars, twinkling. So let there be an institution, and it is open to everyone. There is no question of "secular" and particular.... Let them learn this art. That is wanted. Not blindly, but apply your consideration and take it after mature judgment. No, what is that? Everything is there. There is no difficulty. Why you are neglecting this important business of India? Do you think it is right?
Mr. Rajda: One should not neglect. And as real it is done, it is better, not only for the world, for India also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They'll be happy. They're suffering. (Hindi) Is that civilization? "You could not supply me petrol. I shot you." What is this? How much animalistic a human being can be. (aside:) Wake up. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣaḥ. The people are being educated to become too much lusty, and as soon as their lust is not fulfilled, they'll be angry. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. And the krodha was, anger was so intense that he killed another person. No consideration that "What he can do? The petrol is finished." He simply says, "Now my stock is finished." So therefore he should be killed?
Mr. Rajda: Now this information will.... I shall be interested to read from it.
Prabhupāda: So where is that note? Bring. (Hindi) Those who are assisting me, let them have permanent visa so that I can work this way.
Mr. Rajda: Correct.
Prabhupāda: And I am unnecessarily spending five to six lakhs of rupees.
Prabhupāda: If they want good. Separation on the religious consideration, that was the mistake.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was...?
Prabhupāda: Great mistake.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there are Muslims and Hindus here, no problem, in India.
Prabhupāda: And that sentiment was fanned by the Britishers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. (pause) Last night you translated only a little bit?
Prabhupāda: Not feeling at all well.
Prabhupāda: There is... In the village there is no such consideration.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But his idea was also to invite some of the respectable gentlemen from the neighboring areas, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they may...
Prabhupāda: That is...
Mr. Dwivedi: It could be... When you... If the program should really start on Saturday, er, Sunday...
Kārttikeya: Thursday.
Mr. Dwivedi: Sunday.
Prabhupāda: So where his place has been fixed up?
Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: He can stay in one of the life membership rooms because he's alone. He doesn't have wife and that.
Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter.
Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: No, he is...
Prabhupāda: Give him nice, comfortable room.
Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Nice room. That we have arranged. And these people from Germany, they will stay two days in Bombay.
Prabhupāda: No, anyone, newcomer, give him very nice place, nice food. Food and shelter is the first consideration.
Prabhupāda: Rather, they are more distressed. Take for example, in our childhood my father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we were not very rich men. But we had no want. Father was maintaining his family, getting children married, distributing the wealth. Everything very nice. And we never felt any want. In this mango season, because father saw it that "There must be a full basket of mangoes daily for the children," so we were jumping, playing and eating mangoes. And now, taking consideration of gold standard... At that time my mother was purchasing gold, twenty rupees...
Sita Ram Singh: Per tolā.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-two rupees. Now the same gold is six hundred rupees. So three hundred times more?
Sita Ram Singh: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If my father's income was three hundred rupees, increased by three hundred, it becomes nine thousand. So where is the nine thousand rupees income for a middle-class man?
Sita Ram Singh: Quite.
Prabhupāda: Nine thousand rupees', ten thousand rupees' income is for very, very big man. But comparing, say, sixty-seventy years ago, we were a middle-class man, so a middle-class man has not increased his income from three hundred rupees to ten thousand rupees. That means everybody has become poor. So where is the advancement? Simply beating the drum, will this...? In our childhood we have seen mustard oil, first-class, made in Kanpur. We were purchasing, eight annas per two and a half ser.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Well, this wasn't free. They're paying for being here. They're paying to be here.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're paying to hold their program.
Prabhupāda: No gratis lecture allowed. If they pay for, they will talk all nonsense, (laughter) and we don't care for it. These are the considerations. That's all right. Turn me this side.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Prabhupāda, you should take some rest now, I think. You've been talking a long time.
Prabhupāda: What aim? Low-class men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their entire outlook is an economic one. They have no... They don't feel that there's any importance to culture or any of the finer sentiments except that they may further the economic consideration. Politically also, their political understanding is also ultimately directed for economics. Any of their political dealings with other countries are all ultimately to establish this economic Communism.
Prabhupāda: How human society is falling down.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the definition given in the Vedas, they don't classify as human beings.
Prabhupāda: Don't try for China.
| Page Title: | Consideration (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 05 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=120, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 120 |