Conditioned souls (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"conditioned soul" |"conditioned soul's" |"conditioned souls"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Gargamuni: Why is this human form of life, why is this human life in such a diseased condition with war, pestilence, and famine?

Prabhupāda: These are miserable conditions inflicted by material nature just to remind the conditioned soul that this conditioned life in the material nature is not for you. There is another place where you can live very peacefully. Just like in the prison life there is always infliction of miseries. If in the prison life one is comfortably situated, then he'll never go out, he'll try to live there. So these material inflictions of miseries reminds us that this place is not suitable for us. It is not our place. Our place is back to Godhead, back to home. Therefore these are the reminders that you must leave this place.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 23, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: We should forego sleeping even. The real regulated life is that if sixteen rounds is not completed, then we have to forego sleeping. You should take out hours from sleeping. We should be... The main thing is that we should always be careful that... We are going, we have taken up a very responsible task, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we should be very much careful in discharging the duty. The devotee should be so much careful that he'll always see "Whether this moment is spoiled or utilized?" Avyartha-kālatvam (Cc. Madhya 23.18-19). Avyartha-kālatvam, that "My time may not be wasted." He should be so careful, "Whether my time is being wasted?" and time wasted, the time we engage for our bodily necessities, that is wasted. Generally, conditioned souls, they are simply wasting their time. Only the period which we have engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is utilized. So we should be very much careful whether time is being wasted or being utilized.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Kīrtanānanda: All of the conditioned souls are in an indirect relationship.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Everyone is in a relationship.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There must be some relation. Without relationship one cannot exist because he is part and parcel. Just like persons in the prison house. They are not out of government. There is relationship with the government, but that is indirect. The criminals, they do not appreciate the service of the government. Government is bothered about his existence. Some extra... Instead of receiving some service from him to the state, the state has got to spend unnecessarily for him. That is a botheration. So those who are in indirect relationship with Kṛṣṇa, they are botheration.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they have forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not. The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they have forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not. The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree. But in Kali-yuga the condition is in greater degree. So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Anywhere within this material world, they are all conditioned souls. Their understanding is incomplete. Even Brahmā. Even Brahmā. Brahmā has admitted in his prayers that people..."Other rascal may say that he has understood You, but for my part, I say I never understood You." He has said like that. Have you read this portion? So even Brahmā cannot understand. What we? He says, "The other rascals may say." Where is that Brahma-stotra? In the first part, find out.

Haṁsadūta: No. It's in the Process of Creation isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, no. In Kṛṣṇa Book. Where is that...? This is second part. I say always that...

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes it is done deliberately. Sometimes it is done deliberately because everyone in this material world is imperfect. Therefore there is tendency of cheating. That is one of the qualifications of the conditioned soul. He becomes mistaken. He becomes illusioned. He cheats and his senses are imperfect.

Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry I think you're using the word cheat in a much broader sense. We would use cheat as conscious mistake as opposed to a person who doesn't realize that what he says doesn't happen to be true.

Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So we are called conditioned soul because we are conditioned according to this body. Deha-yogena dehinām. The..., according to karma, the certain privileges or disadvantages, what you are destined to receive, that is already a fact according to your birth. Just like somebody's suffering from asthma, so he has got a body from a father and mother, and from the very beginning there is asthma. That body is the symptom or the result of his past karma. Therefore the material advantages or disadvantages are already settled up according to karma. So those who are sane man, they are confident that "Kṛṣṇa has given me this body according to my past karma, so let me not improve. Let me not waste my time for improving the advantages and disadvantages of this material world." But you cannot do it.

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The whole world is full of conditioned living entities. They're conditioned. Conditioned means under the control of the material nature. Guṇaiḥ karmāṇi. There are different types of conditioned souls. Some of them are good conditioned soul, some of them are passionate conditioned soul, some of them are rascal conditioned soul. So good conditioned soul means that, er, "(indistinct) that I have become very much learned, I have studied so many books, so now I am perfect." There is little goodness, because he has studied, he, he has labored, but still he's conditioned soul, because he has no perfect vision. Vimukta-māninaḥ. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam they have been described as vimukta-māninaḥ, that "I have become now liberated, māninaḥ."

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11 -- January 19, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So he was speaking to another, "Oh, that Panchu was playing with us naked. He is sitting on the high-court judge's bench. Oh, how he was playing with us naked, how he is seated in the high-court bench?" "Yes, I have seen, you have seen actually he is sitting." "Oh, then he must not be getting salary." He must not be getting salary. So this is the argument. Familiarity breeds contempt. So he cannot believe that he has become a high-court judge. He thinks that "I am a rascal fool and my friend, how he can become high-court judge? He must not be getting salary." But is that very good argument that the high-court judge is seated there without any salary? This argument is false(?). That is enviousness. Nirmatsarata. That is the habit of the conditioned soul.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: "Every living entity under the spell of material energy is held to be in an abnormal condition of madness. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, 'Generally, the conditioned soul is mad, because he is always engaged in activities which are the causes of bondage and suffering.' The spirit soul in its original condition is joyful, blissful, eternal and full of knowledge, and only by his implication in material activities has he become miserable, temporary and full of ignorance. This is due to vikarma. Vikarma means 'actions which should not be done.' Therefore, we must practice sādhana-bhakti, which means to offer maṅgala-ārati (Deity worship) in the morning, to refrain from certain material activities, to offer obeisances to the spiritual master and to follow many other rules and regulations which will be discussed here, one after another.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: These practices will help one to become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the directions of a psychiatrist, so this sādhana-bhakti cures the conditioned soul of his madness under the spell of maya, or material illusion.

"Nārada Muni mentions this sādhana-bhakti in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, First Chapter, 30th verse. He says there to King Yudhiṣṭhira, 'My dear King, one has to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa by any means.' That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the duty of the ācārya, spiritual master, to find the ways and means for his disciple to fix his mind on Kṛṣṇa. That is the beginning of sādhana-bhakti.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not Kali-yuga. This is the symptom of conditioned soul. It is very prominent now in this age. Conditioned soul means these four defects—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat others, and imperfectness of the senses. The scientists say that we do not know, that means imperfectness of sense. I am trying to see but the cloud is checking me, and I am considering beyond this cloud there is nothing. That is imperfectness of my seeing. Not... It is not a fact that beyond the cloud there is nothing. So these things are going on—cheating, illusion, mistake, and imperfect. And they are trying to come to a right conclusion. Just like somebody was telling that there is going to be a big conference of the Catholics to consider what wrong they have done.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee: "The conditioned souls in the clutches of the illusory energy are all anxious to attain peace in the material world. They do not know the formula for peace which is explained in this part of the Bhagavad-gītā. The greatest peace formula is simply this. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the beneficiary in all human activities. Men should offer everything to the transcendental service of the Lord because He is the proprietor of all planets and the demigods thereon. No one is greater than He. He is greater than the greatest of the demigods, Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā. In the Vedas the Supreme Lord is described as param īśvarānāṁ paramaṁ maheśvaram. Under the spell of illusion, living entities are trying to be lords of all they survey. But actually they are dominated by the material energy of the Lord. The Lord is the master of material nature and the conditioned souls are under the stringent rules of material nature."

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Lord is the master of material nature, and we are conditioned by the material nature and still we are claiming, "I am God." Then?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is māyā. He is suffering, but he's thinking I am enjoying. So any conditioned soul, he doesn't enjoy anything. He simply suffers. But he thinks that he is enjoying. Therefore the camel, camel example is given. Camel example. Camel, he is eating his own blood, eating thorns, and the thorns cutting the tongue, and from the tongue, blood is oozing out. So when the blood is mixed up with the thorny twigs, it becomes little tasteful, and he is thinking "Oh, it is very nice." Similarly, all these gṛhasthas, enjoying sex life, he is discharging his own blood, he's becoming weaker and weaker, he is thinking, "I am enjoying." He is thinking, "I am enjoying." And if he uses more, then he becomes diseased, tuberculosis. He is dying by that process, but he's thinking, "I am enjoying."

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: In the purport it says: "The body is called kṣetra, or the field of activity for the conditioned soul, and the person who identifies himself with the body is called kṣetra, kṣetrajña, the knower of the field."

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is wrongly written.

Yogeśvara: Ah. It's everyone, everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Yogeśvara: Not just those people.

Prabhupāda: Identifies with the body. He's not kṣetrajña.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Eh. Yeah. Therefore, if we have to acquire knowledge, we must go to a person who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned. There are four defects in the conditioned soul: to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat others, and imperfectness of senses. One may declare himself that he's perfect in knowledge, but his senses are imperfect. So how he can call himself that he has got the perfect knowledge by speculative method?

Professor: Hm.

Prabhupāda: The instrument which he is using for speculation, that instrument itself is imperfect.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Haṁsadūta: Uh, four de... Every conditioned soul, you or I, anyone, born in this material world, he's defective by four things. He has got imperfect senses. Just like you don't see what's happening beyond the wall. So this is imperfection of the senses. There are so many examples. The next thing is you're subjected to be illusioned. You may accept a thing for real which is not real. Just like we accept the body as self, but we are not the body. The body is a lump of matter. We are simply witnessing the changes of the body, but we are not the... So this is illusion. Then...

Prabhupāda: Mistakes.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He has no external, internal. We are conditioned souls. We have got external, internal. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because people cannot understand it, they think that "Kṛṣṇa is like us."

Guest (1): He's not person then realistically.

Prabhupāda: He's person. Not like you person.

Guest (1): A different.

Prabhupāda: That you are always in want. Not like that. He's Supreme, full of all opulences. He's person, but not a person like us. The same example: Indira Gandhi is a person. I am also person. But not a person like me. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means person. He is sac-cid-ānanda. We are not ānanda. This body is not sat.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You see? That is the qualification of conditioned soul: To become a cheater, and to become cheated. This is the condition. To become a cheater is one of the conditions of material life. The four defects: He must commit mistake, he must be illusioned, and he must cheat, and his senses are imperfect. These are the four qualifications of the materialistic person.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also one of the qualities of bondage?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bondage?

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why not? They have to admit Just like I gave you the example that you cannot see how many stars are there, but there are. If you say, "I don't see it, I don't believe it," that is your foolishness. That is your foolishness. You have to admit that your senses are limited. They are not perfect. That is the four defects of the conditioned soul: he commits mistake, he is illusioned, he cheats, and his senses are imperfect.

Dr. Wolfe: But they say they try and try again.

Prabhupāda: No, try, how? How can you? You are diseased person. Suppose you are suffering from cataract disease. So you can try, try, try, try. Will you be cured? You'll never be cured. You must go to a physician. He'll operate, surgical operation. Then there is chance of seeing. You cannot, trying, trying, trying, trying. Then you go on trying, but you'll never be cured.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's all. This kind of election is rascal election. It has no meaning. Therefore the public must know whom to elect and how to elect. That should be our propaganda. Because nowadays it is democratic government, teach people how to select the real leader. Real leader means who does not commit mistake, who is not illusioned, who does not cheat and who has no imperfect senses, who has, or, other words, one who has got perfect senses. So if you say, "How it is possible for the conditioned soul?" "Yes, it is possible if you follow the perfect." Just like we are doing. We are following Kṛṣṇa. He does not commit mistake, He is not illusioned, His senses are not imperfect, and He does not cheat. We are following. Therefore, although we are imperfect, because we are following the perfect, our proposition is perfect. A child may be illiterate, but when he's taught, "Write A like this," and he follows that, he becomes literate.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, guru is considered as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Guru-rūpa kṛṣṇa hana avatāra. Just to teach the conditioned soul, guru comes himself, er, Kṛṣṇa comes Himself in the form of guru. Therefore we sing in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's prayer, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ: "In every śāstra, guru is accepted as directly Kṛṣṇa." Sākṣāt. Sākṣāt means directly. Sākṣād-dharitvena: As Kṛṣṇa, is accepted in every śāstra, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **, it is said, uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **, and this statement is accepted by advanced devotees. It is not only statement, but it is accepted. But the next question is: "Does it mean that guru is Kṛṣṇa? Therefore no more Kṛṣṇa wanted?"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are very old questions. These are not very intelligent questions. God is not creating. God is giving you chance. The conditioned souls who are not with Kṛṣṇa, they wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore God is giving them chance. "All right enjoy (indistinct)," and giving instruction also that you enjoy in this way, so that you may come back again. Just like a father. Children wants to play in the (indistinct). "All right, you play." Then, as soon as he asks, "Please come back. (indistinct), they come back. Similarly this material world, we wanted to enjoy, so Kṛṣṇa has given us freedom, "All right enjoy". And now Kṛṣṇa gives instruction that "now you give up all this (indistinct) come back, then you (indistinct)." He created for you.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are very old questions. These are not very intelligent questions. God is not creating. God is giving you chance. The conditioned souls who are not with Kṛṣṇa, they wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore God is giving them chance. "All right enjoy (indistinct)," and giving instruction also that you enjoy in this way, so that you may come back again. Just like a father. Children wants to play in the (indistinct). "All right, you play." Then, as soon as he asks, "Please come back. (indistinct), they come back. Similarly this material world, we wanted to enjoy, so Kṛṣṇa has given us freedom, "All right enjoy". And now Kṛṣṇa gives instruction that "now you give up all this (indistinct) come back, then you (indistinct)." He created for you. Same example I always give. Just like the government, when there is formation of the city, jail construction is also there. You cannot say that, "Why government is creating, it is unnecessary, it's premature, construction of jail work(?). But the government knows that there are some criminals who has to be put into the jail. Therefore the jail created. So because there are criminals, therefore government creates. Similarly, there are many conditioned souls who, instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, they want to enjoy. "All right, for you, you enjoy to your fullest extent." And when he is tired of enjoying, enjoying, enjoying.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Newton was a rascal. He made two holes in the door. And one friend came, "Why you have made these two holes in your door?" He said, "There are two cats, bigger and the smaller. So let them go out." So he asked, "With the bigger hole the smaller cannot go?" "Yes, yes. You are right." (laughter) Any conditioned soul, he may be Newton or this or that, they are all rascals.

Dr. Patel: No, but some of the highest... I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody is highest. Because everyone, everyone is in ignorance.

Dr. Patel: Ignorance is right, but...

Prabhupāda: Therefore rascals!

Dr. Patel: Though their knowledge is ignorance, it is that, Brahman knowledge is right.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṣara and akṣara means conditioned soul and liberated soul. Those who are in the Vaikuṇṭha world, spiritual world, they are all liberated souls. And those who are within this material world, they are conditioned souls. So...

Dr. Patel: When I read...

Prabhupāda: Now, let us finish. So this should be clearly understood, that in this body the both the Paramātmā and jīvātmā living.

Dr. Patel: Stay together, live together.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But the Māyāvādīs, they says there is no jīvātmā. The same thing, Paramātmā. That is not.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. One who is not envious. A person generally... All conditioned souls, they are envious of God, envious. "Why He should be God? I am God. I am God." So Arjuna is not like that person. Therefore he is speaking to Arjuna. He is devotee. In the Fourth Chapter also, He said bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). Therefore Kṛṣṇa does not expose Himself unless one is devotee. This is first qualification. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one must be a devotee. The so-called jñānī, yogis, they cannot understand. It is not possible, because they are trying to become God. Although it is simply dream, they can never become, but they are envious, that "Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? I have got so many gods."

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: The nitya-mukta devotees, Prabhupāda, they are always engaged in the service of the Lord, and every thought of theirs is engaged at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, of serving Him completely. And when they appear on this earth, persons like yourself, they only come here for the purpose of reclaiming the fallen conditioned souls. They have no reason to come to this material world for their own enjoyment. That is never on their mind. But the nitya-bandhas, they are here simply to try and manipulate this material nature so that they can engage their own senses in gratification either of themselves or their extended self like their family. So the difference between the two is one is serving Kṛṣṇa, the other is simply serving his senses.

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the stage of sādhana-bhakti... Sadhana-bhakti is for the conditioned soul. And siddha. Siddha means they are already mature. Siddha means nitya-siddha.

Pañcadraviḍa: (break) Also, Prabhupāda you said that if one does not worship Pañca-tattva, whatever actions he performs, even if he is so-called Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, is to be considered offensive.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: Does this mean other sampradāyas also?

Prabhupāda: Other sampradāyas?

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: How does the cosmic force become ignorant of itself and fall into this condition? If before he was this form he was the cosmic energy, how he can fall down into ignorance and become an individual, limited, conditioned soul? (French)

Yogeśvara: I'm finding it hard to be able to translate because he says that we're ignorant and he says at the same time we're not ignorant.

Prabhupāda: What is this? When you speak of ignorance, that means he has fallen down from knowledge. That is ignorance. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says this knowledge is there anywhere for everyone, but the men take it or don't take it, ignore it or get themself interested.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned souls that they are struggling for existence. Instead of finding out how to come to the original consciousness and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means love. So everyone is struggling hard how to reach the platform of love. So many institutions-philanthropic, international, United Nations. The only attempt, how to love each other. But they'll struggle, they'll not attain the platform, simply struggle. There have been so many attempts, even the favorite example, the United Nations. How much they are doing and people have got the idea of philanthropism, countryism, communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is they are trying to come to the platform of love.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The more you are not conditioned, the more your finding out truth is perfect. But it is not possible for you to become completely unconditioned. That is not possible. That is mukta puruṣa, liberated. Therefore we have to take knowledge from the person who is not conditioned. That is perfect knowledge. And one who is conditioned, what is the value of his giving knowledge? So therefore we don't accept any knowledge from the conditioned souls. Conditioned soul is imperfect by the four deficiencies. Bhrama, pramadā... He must commit mistake. So what is the value of his knowledge? There is no value. We take knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is unconditioned. There is a verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata: eṣad īśānām īśasya. That is God. God means He becomes, He comes within this material world, but He's not conditioned. That is Kṛṣṇa.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: The same thing: the conditioned soul enters the big city of material world, and he struggles. (pause)

Rāmeśvara: I have heard there is a philosophy here amongst some of the devotees that if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you can go back to the spiritual world even if you do not give up your independence.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: Many devotees who have moved outside of the temple are feeling that if they just continue to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they can go back to the spiritual world, but they are not giving up their independence.

Prabhupāda: So? What is your philosophy?

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is the position of the conditioned soul. They are struggling for existence. Existence means finding out how to come to the original consciousness, and that is struggle. Kṛṣṇa means "love," so everyone is struggling hard how to be in the platform of love. So many institution-philanthropy, international and the United Nation—the only attempt: how to love each other. But they are struggling. They have not attained the platform, simply struggling. There have been so many attempts to unite. The vivid example is the United Nation. Formerly that was League of Nation. And people are manufacturing ideas, philanthropism and altruism, Communism, communityism, this ism, that ism. The only thing is, they are trying to come to the platform of love. But they are manufacturing their own way. The Kṛṣṇa solves, that "Not in this way.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is jumping of the monkeys. In my book, it was published in 1958. (Hindi conversation) I don't believe all these rascals. Otherwise, how could I write? Later on, in San Francisco some press reporter asked me, "What is your opinion?" And, "This is all foolish waste of time and money." It was published. (break) We are conditioned. We call ourself "conditioned soul." So whatever condition is made by nature or by God, you cannot overcome them. That is futile attempt. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass the condition of material nature. Foolishly, you may declare very great independent. But completely under the grip of material nature. Everything, there is a process. Just like you have come to U.S.A. You have come through a process, immigration. Can anyone come here without going through the process?

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Ātmavat manyate jagat. That is the conditioned soul's qualification that if he is a fool, he thinks other, fools. Everyone, he thinks, "He is like me." That is nature. Ātmavat manyate jagat. "Everyone thinks others like himself." If he is a fool, he thinks all are. So these things are no argument. Nobody has seen God? How do you take the statistics? Can you say like that, any statistics, that nobody has... Maybe you have not seen him, one who has seen God. That is quite possible because you have not scrutinizingly studied all the men of the world. Then how you can say, "Nobody has seen"? You have not seen the man who has seen Him. He will not admit his fault.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Bhayaṁ dvitīyābhiniveśataḥ syāt. Everyone, animal up to the king of heaven—always fearful. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. So fearfulness is one of the qualification of conditioned soul. Yesterday you were putting forward the logic, "Machine." Machine, we also accept. In Bhagavad-gītā it is mentioned, this body is machine, yantra. Yantra means machine. So at the same time, you said, "Growing." Do you grow machine Ford car?

Ambarīṣa: Do they grow? No, they... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Then how the analogy is perfect? Machine it is. That is accepted. Kṛṣṇa says. That is undoubtedly, it is machine. It is nothing but machine. So machine, at the same time, he says, "It grows." How it can be comparable?

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. That is also speculation. (laughter) "Because I have failed, therefore there is no knowledge." This is also imperfect because how I can conclude like that? I am imperfect. I cannot decide this way or that way. So that is also. Vedic knowledge says that a conditioned soul has got four defects: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. Any conditioned soul. Even Brahma, he is receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Ādi-kavi means Brahma. He is the most perfect person within this universe, Lord Brahma. So he is also receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Any conditioned soul, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, they are defective in four ways: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. They know that "I am imperfect." Just this Darwin. He knew that he is imperfect, and he cheated so many persons—by false theory, which he cannot explain.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Self-suff... There is no self-sufficiency. Self-insufficiency. Always remember that. Unless you become perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no self-sufficiency. All self-insufficiency. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) So you give me a description, what he is doing. (break) ...thinking, "I am independent," but he is kicked by his mind every moment. This is his independence—"Go there. Come here. Do this. Do that." The mind is dictating, and he is thinking, "I am independent." This is the position of conditioned soul. Therefore he is called conditioned. He is conditioned by the mind, and he is thinking "independent." Mūḍha. Therefore mūḍha. Tri-guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ mohitaḥ. He is illusioned by the three modes of material nature, and he does not know Kṛṣṇa, and he is thinking "independent."

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: No. Conscientiously you should not. But unconsciously, if you do, that is excused. (break) ...na punar baddhyate(?). Āhlādinī-śakti, it is pleasure potency. So pleasure potency is not painful to Kṛṣṇa. But it is painful. It is painful to us, conditioned souls. This Golden Moon (name of a bar?), everyone comes there for pleasure, but he is becoming implicated in sinful activities. Therefore it is not pleasure. It will give him pain, so many aftereffects. Sex life, even it is not illicit, still, it is painful, aftereffects. You'll have to take care of the children. You have to bear children. That is painful. You have to pay to the hospital for delivery, then education, then doctor's bill—so many painful. So this pleasure, sex pleasure, is followed by so many painful things. Tāpa-karī. The same pleasure potency is there in the living being in little quantity, and as soon as they utilize it, it becomes painful.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation. (Hindi) (break) Just like every one of them is attached to remain in Africa, continuing to... But they are being forcefully driven away: "Go away." Attachment must be there. The Englishmen, they have got attachment, but they were forcefully driven away. Similarly, this conditioned soul, he has got attachment. And śāstra and śāstra... These people were driven away by śāstra,, by weapon, knife. That is śāstra.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of dialectic discussion. Suppose I am discussing, you are discussing something, but if I am imperfect, you are imperfect, what is the value of such discussion? That is the point. The party discussing something, whether he is perfect? If he is not perfect, then go on discussing. We first of all say that any conditioned soul is defective, and that is admitted. They say, "We are not perfect." "I think," they say. "In my opinion," they say. Never they say, the so-called scientists, "definite." And they cannot say it.

Mahamsa: That is like Dr. Frog's philosophy when they speculate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply speculation. So that kind of discussion, what is the value?

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply cheating. That's all. What is called? Bhrama-pramāda-vipralipsā. Everyone is trying to cheat others, and that is the criterion of intelligence, "How I can cheat you, how you can cheat me." This is going on. That is the nature of the conditioned souls. (break) ...workers are coming today?

Indian man: He said he will bring twenty, thirty persons today.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So they will follow the instruction. They have made that plan?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Indian man: He said that if he will get the supply immediately, then he can finish, even before that.

Prabhupāda: So give him supply? Where is the...

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, greater than you, you admit it, demigods or God or anything. But why you are thinking yourself so big? That is your fault. That is foolishness. I am a big man amongst a small, tiny living entities. But why you are thinking you are biggest of all, you can understand everything? That is your fault. This is the folly of the conditioned soul. He is nothing. He has no value. Still, he is thinking he is very great. Everything is big and small relatively. Just like here if one man has got 100,000 rupees, he's a big man. But what is 100,000 rupees in America? Nothing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One year's salary for an average man.

Hṛdayānanda: A worker.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lakhpati. Here they call, lakhpati. Lakhpati means owner of 100,000 rupees.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And in this modern age, this cheating is very prominent...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Modern or old, anyone who is a conditioned soul, he has got cheating propensity, four defects. One of them is the cheating propensity.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But the mental stage in this age is very strong, mental. They think mentally they have found a solution.

Prabhupāda: That they can do.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But they...

Prabhupāda: Within mind you can think, "I have become emperor of the world." That you can do. Who can check you? But that is not the actual fact.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That is the characteristic.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: This is their punishment. They are being punished, but if you think that "I am punished," they will die. You must take it "I'm enjoying." This is māyā's energy. They are being punished, but punishment they are taking as enjoyment. Illusion. The conditioned soul is illusioned. This is illusion. He is being punished, and he's thinking "I am enjoying." That is a concession. When he's punished, he may not be woke up with the unhappiness. Therefore he's thinking "I'm enjoying." Actually he's being punished.

Devotee (3): (break) ...saying though you have to laugh to keep from crying.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: In the West, people are generally unfamiliar, I think, with the philosophy of Śaṅkara, yet in your books you devote so much argument to defeating Māyāvāda philosophy. I was wondering if it is within every conditioned soul's heart to be an impersonalist. Is it.... Does every conditioned soul have the propensity for impersonalism?

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.

Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: "When the mind is in the mode of goodness, his activities are good; when the mind is in the mode of passion, his activities are troublesome; and when the mind is in the mode of ignorance, he travels in the lower species of life. It is clear, however, in this verse, that the conditioned soul is covered by..."

Prabhupāda: Ignorance means completely lost of all independence. That is ignorance. Complete loss of, even little intelligence, all lost. In the modes of passion, there is little independence, and in the modes of goodness, he has got full independence whether to remain in the struggle for existence or go back to home, back to Godhead. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. That is real knowledge platform.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you wrote that we don't have to be concerned that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will deliver the whole world, because it will fill up again. Even if we can bring everyone back to Godhead, it will just be finished up again with more conditioned souls.

Prabhupāda: That means there are so many conditioned souls, one after another, coming. And the conditioned souls are the few of the whole living entities. Just imagine what is the total! (laughs)

Rāmeśvara: It can't be imagined.

Prabhupāda: And majority in the spiritual world, and one fourth, minority, is here in so many innumerable universes.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So here is definitive knowledge, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There's no question of "I believe" or "You believe." No. What you are, your belief? You may believe wrongly. You are not perfect. They do not accept this, that every one of the conditioned souls is imperfect with four defects: illusion, committing mistake, cheating, and imperfectness of senses. Who will say it is not? It is. If you have got imperfect senses, then what is the use of your belief? If the child says "Oh, there is no father. I have never seen my father," does it mean there is no father? Because you are child, because you have got mother, there must be father, you believe or not believe. So these rascals say "I don't believe in God." Why? As it is inevitable—the mother is there, the child is there—there must be father. You may not know him, but you can know him through your mother. But must be father.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: He is not devotee. He's pretending to be devotee. One who is devotee never falls down. There are so many false devotees. He falls down.

Devotee (2): Prabhupāda? In 3.4 Bhāgavatam Lord Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of loss, the conditioned soul in the material world when he's identifying with matter.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of being lost. Is that what the psychologists say is craziness?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa-Kṛṣṇa: The feeling of being lost. Kapiladeva's instructions? He wants to know if the identification with matter is the same thing as craziness.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: From our point of view, it doesn't have any meaning. For a conditioned soul to think that he's independent...

Prabhupāda: It is foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think they're free from being controlled by the British, for example. Free from being controlled.

Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?

Yadubara: There is none.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Because he is a learned scholar, you are citing his example. But he is a fool. He does not know what is Mahābhārata, what is Kṛṣṇa. And still, he wants to say something, that is his foolishness. He does not know, and still he wants to speak something. That is cheating. The cheating propensity is there for conditioned souls. He does not know one thing, still he wants to speak as an authority. That is cheating. How you can differentiate? If you are actually student of Mahābhārata, then how we can differentiate the speaker in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra and Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is accepted there as Bhagavān. Whenever Vyāsadeva writes Kṛṣṇa statements, he writes bhagavān uvāca. He's Bhagavān, as well as He's a historical person in the Mahābhārata. He never writes kṛṣṇa uvāca, he writes bhagavān uvāca. And Arjuna admits, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣam ādyam (BG 10.12),

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They say, they may say, but first of all, what is the position of the conditioned soul? Four defects. You must commit mistakes, you must be illusioned, his senses are imperfect, and he's a cheater. These are the four defects of conditioned souls. So how the conditioned soul can give perfect knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is our conclusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The position of conditioned soul is that he must commit mistake, and he's illusioned, and his senses are imperfect, and he wants to cheat. Everyone speaks something. You know that he has no perfect knowledge in the subject matter, still he wants to speak something. That means he wants to cheat. This is going on. And then after some years somebody says, "No, it was not correct." That means he cheated. The former scientists or philosophers cheated.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: And he'll sell ticket. That "I shall bark like the dog." And people will come, "Oh, let us see." This is going on. What is the credit to bark like a dog? There are so many dogs barking, but people are so fool they'll go and purchase the ticket, "How this man barks like a dog." This is cheating. That is the qualification of conditioned soul, he can very scientifically cheat. This is cheating, "I can bark like dog."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Aren't we going a little too far. The scientist says-personally I also feel that they are not all that bad...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They're badly trained up. Not all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are many good things that they have done.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...of this human being, people do not know how they are kept in ignorance. And because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, out of His causeless mercy He comes to deliver us from this ignorance. Unfortunately, they are so much engrossed by the illusory energy, they do not take advantage of the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being propagated that these dull-headed mūḍha—they are being described as mūḍha, dull-headed; they do not know actual interest of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These dull-headed conditioned souls, they do not know their real self-interest, being influenced by māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's energy, so it is her duty to punish the conditioned soul because they have decided to forget Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, He comes personally, He authorizes His devotees, servants, to enlighten these conditioned souls.

Comments on Bhagavad-gita Play -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He authorizes His devotees, servants, to enlighten these conditioned souls. Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an humble attempt to raise the standard of these conditioned souls to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are engaged in this business, they should personally behave as devotee, and by their example they should teach others and elevate them from this gross ignorance of materialistic life. Thank you very much. (break)

Rāmeśvara: Either by your books, by the dioramas and by the dancing.

Devotees: Jaya, Haribol Prabhupāda! (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what is your opinion, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, nice.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The commentation on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyāsadeva in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives the real understanding of Vedānta-sūtra. The Supreme Lord is so full that for the deliverance of the conditioned soul He is the supplier and digester of foodstuff, the witness of his activity, the giver of knowledge in the form of Vedas and, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the teacher of the Bhagavad-gītā. He is worshipable by the conditioned soul. Thus God is all-good; God is all-merciful. Antaḥ-praviṣṭaḥ śāstā janānām. The living entity forgets as soon as he quits his present body, but he begins his work again, initiated by the Supreme Lord. Although he forgets, the Lord gives him the intelligence to renew his work where he ended in his last life. So not only does a living entity enjoy or suffer in this world according to the dictation from the Supreme Lord situated locally in the heart, but he receives the opportunity to understand Vedas from him. If one is serious to understand the Vedic knowledge, then Kṛṣṇa gives the required intelligence.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Cheating is one of the qualification of the conditioned soul.

Akṣayānanda: Prabhupāda, Viśvambhara...

Prabhupāda: Vipralipsa, vipralipsa. Bhrama, pramada, vipralipsa, karuṇātmikā.(?) So cheating is a qualification of the conditioned soul. Everyone is expert in cheating more or less. That is qualification. People take pride, "Oh, I have cheated. I am so expert that I have cheated." When the lawyers make some agreement between the two lawyers, simply think "How I can cheat you. How can I cheat you." That's all. The more one lawyer is expert in cheating, he is big lawyer.

Hari-śauri: Yes, because their business is to avoid the law.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Every living being is polluted by four kinds of deficiencies. A conditioned soul commits mistake. He takes something for something. And because he has no perfect knowledge, he wants to become leader. That is cheating.

Guest (1): Right. You have said that in that speech.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, above all, his senses are imperfect. Therefore, from such persons with deficiency, how you can get real knowledge? That is not possible. We have to approach a person who has no deficiency. Then we shall get real knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa and His representative are persons without any deficiencies. So we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa or one who represents Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we'll be cheated, because he has got deficiencies.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he could not get any spiritual idea. Asad grahāt. Material existence means accepting something which will not exist, asat. Asato mā sad gamaya. The Vedic instruction is: "Do not remain in this material world, and make your progress..." Asato mā sad gamaya. But people are so accustomed to materialistic way of life that they are reluctant. That is māyā, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very, very difficult. Māyā tries to punish every conditioned soul, and as soon as there is some attempt to get out of the clutches of māyā, she becomes still strong: "Where you shall go my dear son? You remain with me." Yaḥ devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpiṇa sam...(?) In the Caṇḍī, yaḥ devī, he is situated, keeping the conditioned souls in dream. He is simply dreaming, "I'll be happy in this way; I'll be happy in that way."

Room Conversation -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sa eva ayam yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. "Therefore I am saying you again, the old yoga system. It is not that because the time has changed, I am changing." Somebody says, "Now it was spoken some millions of years ago, now it is modern ways, I am explaining in the modern way." That is not the system. The system is I am speaking the same yoga system. Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. And they are modernizing, making compromise. That is naṣṭa. That is the defect. Therefore we did not get any benefit. And in the modern countries, before me, so many yogis, swamis have been there for the last two hundred years. Not a single person became a Hindu. Now they are calling (them) "American Hindus." Why? Because it was lost. Rotten thing was given. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. If you supply something to me which is rotten and decomposed, such foodstuff, what shall I get benefit? Now they are getting benefit. Our mission is to put Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission that He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Everyone of you become a guru and deliver these persons, these fallen conditioned souls.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone must make mistake because a conditioned soul are liable to four defects. One of them is to commit mistake. One of them is to become illusioned. One of them, he is a cheater. And one of them, his senses are imperfect. So every conditioned soul who has got this material body, he is defective in these four things. Therefore he has to take knowledge from a person who has no defects. Then his knowledge will be perfect. Just like a small child, he is defective, but he receives the knowledge from the father: "This is called pencil." A child does not know what it is, but the father says, "My dear child, it is pencil." And if he says, "It is pencil," then it is correct, although he's a child, because he has received the knowledge from the person who knows it. Similarly, our principle is—that is Vedic principle-evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Las Vegas is a dangerous place? Eh? Do...?

Rāmeśvara: It is now dangerous for the conditioned soul, 'cause we are passing out your books there. It has become dangerous for the demons. They will lose their demoniac nature by this book distribution.

Brahmānanda: That is the center of the gambling in America.

Hṛdayānanda: Gambling, prostitution, intoxication.

Rāmeśvara: The whole city is managed by criminals. But they have given us permission to sell books in the airport.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And what is your support? Your support is yourself. Then everyone will do that. His support is himself. Everyone will become authority. "I think, I believe." What is this nonsense, your belief? These things should be stopped now. (Hindi) Misleading, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These conditioned souls, very stringently bound up hands and legs by the laws of nature, they are trying to lead the human society. This rascaldom must be stopped. You do not know. Say you do not know. That's all. Why you mislead others? Giving them false knowledge. If you do not know even the distinction between the living entity and the material elements... You are trying to prove the living entity is also combination of these material elements, chemicals. Such a rascal you are. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedam (BG 7.5).

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the implication of this cheating? What are the ramifications, the results?

Prabhupāda: Result is that as we say always, that conditioned soul has a tendency to cheat. So they are utilizing this conditional qualification.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With which result?

Prabhupāda: Result is nothing. Therefore we say it is dogs' race, imagination that "We are becoming happy." He's becoming implicated in karma, cheating karma, and losing the opportunity of human life. Instead of applying his energy and intelligence how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and get out of this, he is becoming expert in cheating and suffering. Then you become mouse. Unless you cheat, you cannot eat even.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everything is cheating because so long you are a conditioned soul, out of four defects, one of the defects is cheating propensity, kāraṇa pāṭava, er, vipralipsa.(?) That is a qualification. And in this material world, the more you are expert cheater, you are considered very able man. All over the world, so many expert cheaters are going on.

Devotee (4): Are these people consciously cheating or raised in cheating so that they don't know the difference?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they are cheating. That is a fact. How we have learnt it, that is another thing. But you are cheating. That's fact.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...but not now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, "Now you become ācārya. You become authorized." I am waiting for that. You become all ācārya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The process of purification must be there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, must be there. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants that. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā (CC Madhya 7.128). "You become guru." (laughs) But be qualified. Little thing, strictly follower...

Conversation: Bogus Gurus -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He'll not take his food, he'll not touch his water, and still, he's guru. That's all. In Vṛndāvana it is going on, large... So many visitors come. They are victimized. They have got their step, in that way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, right. The devotees should understand also that any money that's given to these persons, the Deity will never see this money.

Prabhupāda: Cheating is going on. You have to be careful. Otherwise very risky. Vipralipsa. One of the qualification of conditioned souls is to cheat others and be cheated. Vañchita vañchaka. Business cheat... (end)

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And here is the results of their distribution. This is only for this one temple in France. It says, "We have distributed 25,061 hard-cover Bhagavad-gītās in one week." Twenty-five thousand, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We usually print of a Bhāgavatam 20,000 for the whole society. They distributed 25,000 Gītās in one week in French, Bhagavad-gītās in French. He says, "...to the conditioned souls of this country in seven days. We hope that these results are the biggest in the history of your movement and that they will give you some solace. Our top distributor were Bhakta Richard..." (laughter) Somebody who isn't initiated yet. "...who distributed 1,504 big books in one week." Every day he distributed over two hundred hard-cover books. That's pretty good. (laughter) That means he did about say 240 in twelve hours. He distributed about one book every three minutes for twelve hours in a row, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every day.

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Actually, Brahmā came to bewilder Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is... Actually we seen. Even little power, with scientific knowledge, they are trying to defy, "What is God?" And Brahmā, who is the chief person within the universe, he will become such bewildered, and there is astonishment. And this is the position of conditioned soul.

Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-evam to sam-śabdaḥ)(?)

Prabhupāda: Sammohita means?

Pradyumna: He says, sammohana. So what is this sam? Sam-śabda tad... (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: Samyak.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: One sixty-nine.

jīvera nistāra lāgi' sūtra kaila vyāsa

māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa

(CC Madhya 6.169)

That's Sixth Chapter, Madhya-līlā, verse 169. "Śrīla Vyāsadeva presented the Vedānta philosophy for the deliverance of conditioned souls, but if one hears the commentary of Śaṅkarācārya, everything is spoiled." Shall I read the purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Purport: "Factually the devotional service of the Lord is described in Vedānta-sūtra, but the Māyāvādī philosophers, the Śaṅkarites, prepared a commentary known as Śārīraka-bhāṣya, in which the transcendental form of the Lord is denied.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was printed strictly for the devotees, two thousand copies only. It's meant as like a preaching weapon. "5) One who preaches Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa and is protected by the Lord. 6) Kṛṣṇa empowers the preacher. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement spreads by the mercy of Lord Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya. 7) Preaching is based on compassion. 8) The preacher should practice tolerance. 9) To be effective in preaching, the preacher must be pure and follow the regulative principles. 10) Conditioned souls benefit from hearing Vedic literature, kṛṣṇa-kathā. 11) The future of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement." Should I see what it says under that?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the idea is that... According to him... I mean, obviously we're all conditioned, and... I mean, he's not claiming not to be a conditioned soul either, but according to him, going on this bullock cart is a suicide. He said within an hour or two hours, the bouncing and jumbling of the bullock cart will cause a heart attack. Just like you were having heart..., a little heart spasm the other day, just laying in bed two days ago. He says this going in a bullock cart, up and down, within one, two hours it can cause heart attack. So as his treatment has been better at least than any other doctor, and certain symptoms have improved, why are we giving up his advice? If you say his advice is wrong, then there's no comment, but all along, his advice seems to have been more accurate than any other doctors that we've had. I mean we who are closely around you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your servants, secretary, our opinion of him is far superior than our opinion of any of these others. I see that he's able to take care of one symptom after another somewhat successfully. He's able to deal with these problems. He can deal with the problem of not enough urine...

Prabhupāda: That I know.