Prabhupāda: But he was devotee, but undoubtedly, but outwardly he was a governor. Outwardly. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go him, but he understood that "Here is a nice sannyāsī." He came down and offered his respect and sat down before Him. And there was acquaintances, and Lord Caitanya said that "Bhaṭṭācārya has already informed Me about you. You are a great devotee. So I have come to see you." And then he replied, "Well, what devotee? I am a pound-shilling man, politician. But Bhaṭṭācārya is very kind to me that he has asked Your Holiness to see me. So if You have come, so kindly, kindly deliver me from this material māyā." So there was appointment of time with Rāmānanda Rāya and both of them met again in the evening and there was discussion about, I mean to say, spiritual advancement of life. Lord Caitanya inquired from him and Rāmānanda Rāya replied. Of course, that's a long story, how He questioned and how he replied.
Coming down (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Second scene, fourth act, Caitanya Mahāprabhu after finishing His South Indian tour, He came back to Jagannātha Purī, His headquarter, and after some days He started for Vṛndāvana. While He was in Vṛndāvana He was embracing the tree as old friend, and the birds were sitting on His hand, as if receiving an old friend. Because He was Kṛṣṇa. So after many years they have seen. And that scene, if you can describe how He's traveling in the Vṛndāvana forest. Then He took bath in the several vānas and ghāṭas. Ghāṭas means bathing place of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. And everywhere He felt the ecstasy of Rādhārāṇī, separation. In this way He returned from Vṛndāvana, and when He came down to Prayag, modern Allahabad, at that time He met Rūpa Gosvāmī. Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Hayagrīva: I thought He stayed in Jagannātha... He's not now... He left...
Prabhupāda: No, from Jagannātha Purī He went to Vṛndāvana. From Vṛndāvana while coming down again He first of all came to Prayag. There He taught Rūpa Gosvāmī. Then when He still came down He came to Benares. At Benares He remained for two months. More than two months. And for two months continually He instructed Sanātana Gosvāmī about devotional service. That instruction you'll find in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. I've written that Teachings of Lord Caitanya?
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In that you'll find.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Our guru or spiritual master comes down from that disciplic succession. It is not that, that somebody all of a sudden becomes guru and manufactures his own philosophy. We don't accept such nonsense. We must accept somebody who is actually bona fide, coming in disciplic succession, not others.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. All right. Kṛṣṇa will see. So you just give service to Kṛṣṇa, impressing people that these Kṛṣṇa conscious people are not hippies.
Miss Rose: Oh, yes! I told a lot of people. You know, Swamiji, the first time when I heard about 95 Glenville Avenue, the first time, a woman told me that, she says, "You know," she says, "gypsies, we have neighbors, gypsies on the street." "Gypsies! I haven't seen any gypsies." Well, I put my shoes. I went downstairs. I went to the door and I start reading. I says, "This is spiritual. This is beautiful. This is spiritual." I forgot right away. So she came to the door, Jadurani. She came to the door and she said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," and she said, "Come in." I came in and she started talking to me and that's... I got started. So when I seen her, I said, "That's not gypsies. That's not gypsies." And I explained it to her. "Oh," she said, "I seen the curtains in the window," she said, "and I thought they were gypsies." "Oh, well," I explained it to her. "Oh," I says. I let her have it, there was no gypsies there. So she used to see me coming down to got to the temple. So nice, yeah? Do you like that place, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: Which place?
Miss Rose: Where the disciples are now, on Glenville Avenue? Or do you think that you need another place?
Prabhupāda: No, sometimes the, some children disturb. They broke...
Prabhupāda: So when he came to Navadvīpa, that was the... In all other places he was victorious. So all the Navadvīpa paṇḍitas, they conferred that "Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded to talk with him. And if he is defeated by Nimāi Paṇḍita, then we'll become victorious because a boy has defeated him. But if Nimāi Paṇḍita becomes defeated, then we'll get another chance: 'No, you have defeated boy. Let us come.' " In this way they make. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was informed that first of all he'll have to talk with Nimāi Paṇḍita. So one day Nimāi Paṇḍita, boy Nimāi Paṇḍita, was talking with his disciples, students. And Keśava Kāśmīrī was strolling on the Ganges side. So he heard that this boy is Nimāi Paṇḍita. "Oh, I will have to talk with Him? He is a boy." So he went there, and when He was acquainted that Keśava Kāśmīrī..., "Oh, please come down, sit." So Nimāi Paṇḍita said that "I have heard that you are so learned scholar. Now we are on the Ganges side. You can chant the glorification of mother Ganges. She may hear and enjoy." So he was very learned scholar. Immediately he composed hundred verses, one hundred. And fluent, very fluently he went on. Then, out of that one hundred verses, in the sixty-fourth verse there was some poetic discrepancies.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: I'll call. Thank you for your words and thank you for letting me join you.
Prabhupāda: My... You are already chanting. But if we do together, it will be very nice.
Allen Ginsberg: So let's do something together in New York City this summer. I'm free all summer, so it's at your convenience this time 'cause I'll be free. I don't have any dates or appointments. So if you just let me know maybe two weeks or somebody let me know a few weeks in advance, then I can come down from the farm, spend a day with you and then we chant. I'd be happy to do that. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Give him that garland. (end)
Prabhupāda: Well, if... This deposition is very difficult to solve. (laughing) You want to stay, and he wants to burn it. (laughing)
Hayagrīva: Yes. I mean it will come down to something very basic like this, something very simple. Now you said that according to you it should be burned. According to you... If the president is in charge, then if he says to cut it down, it gets cut down.
Prabhupāda: No. The committee. The majority decision will be...
Hayagrīva: That's democracy. That's democracy. That's no good.
Prabhupāda: Democracy? This is the age of...
Hayagrīva: I thought you said we should have enlightened monarchy.
Prabhupāda: No. Monarchy is out of date now. When you form a committee... But what can I say? If you disagree in that way, then... If you have to live together, you have to work together; if you disagree in that way, it will be a difficult job.
Prabhupāda: It is not that any spiritual master. Sampradāya. Sampradāya means a particular line of disciplic succession.
John Lennon: But, you see, Maharishi said exactly the same thing about his mantra's coming from the Vedic, with seemingly as much authority as you, and he was probably right. So how... It's like having too many fruits on a plate, and you can't only eat two of them.
Prabhupāda: No. If mantra is coming down in that way, then it is potency; the potency is there.
John Lennon: But Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best one.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yoko Ono: Well, if Hare Kṛṣṇa is the best one, what is the reason why we have to bother to even say anything else other than this one?
Prabhupāda: You don't require to bother to say anything else. We say that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient for one's perfection.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (6): Yes. Just as we require shelter because we have the body...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, this living entity also requires shelter of blissful life. That is this association of Kṛṣṇa. So unless he gets that, he wants blissfulness, but—there is some spiritual blissfulness; he has no information—he comes down again to this perverted blissfulness of this material world.
Devotee (6): They don't take their pleasure in being there in the brahma-jyotir?
Prabhupāda: There is no pleasure. Blissfulness is not there, brahma-jyotir is simply eternity, that's all. The same example can be given. Just like sunlight. There is only light. But on a planet the effect of the light is there—there are so many trees, so many flowers, fruits. We, we want varieties of pleasure. Variety is the mother of...
Devotees: "Variety is the spice of life."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Himāvatī: Spice of life.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. So therefore, we are living entities, life. We want variety. So this is the varietyless, no variety, one kind, sunlight. We require sunlight. We are so much anxious for sunlight. Not only sunlight.
Devotee (2): Then why is it seen that they are making spiritual advancement?
Prabhupāda: No, they don't make any spiritual advancement. They come down. Don't you see this impersonalist, Vivekananda? He took sannyāsa; he came to hospital-making, came back. They are not advancing. They are coming back, falling down. While they have no engagement in devotional service, they say, "Oh, why you are finding God anywhere? Here is God, daridra-nārāyaṇa, these poor men." That's it. That is not advancement. They are coming down. Now, they come down and they defame Nārāyaṇa, that "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." He has found Nārāyaṇa is daridra.
Revatinandana: What is that word?
Prabhupāda: Daridra. Daridra means poor, poor. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is manufactured word by Vivekananda. They are so proud that "When a beggar comes at your door, you should treat him as Nārāyaṇa, daridra." These are simply high-sounding words. What they are doing actually for the daridras?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Avatāra means avatāran. (Hindi) What is the meaning of descent? What is the meaning of descent? Coming down. Coming down. Yes.
Guest: In the sense of quality or in the sense of form.
Prabhupāda: The sense of form. Because your brain is congested with impersonalism, you cannot understand what is spiritual form. That is your defect.
Guest: That is the trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) All hodgepodge things should be...
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore... (Hindi) What is this intellect? It is ignorance. This is not intellect. It is ignorance. You are accepting something wrong. That is ignorance. Ignorance is jñānavān. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is knowledge. This is ignorance. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. And one who does not know Kṛṣṇa, he has no value of his knowledge. Bhāgavata says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ (SB 7.5.31). Knowledge, what is the target of knowledge? To go up to Viṣṇu, to understand. Tad viṣṇuṁ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti surayaḥ. Those who are actually intelligent, they are simply observing the Viṣṇu form. This is Vedic mantra. So unless you reach to that point, your knowledge has no value. It is ignorance. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). So long you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, that means your knowledge is covered still.
Prabhupāda: Observation and experiment.
Śyāmasundara: Whether it has a good effect or it has a bad effect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So similarly, just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is coming down from Kṛṣṇa through the chain of disciplic succession. So if it is actually given in the exact definition, that process, it is effective. And it is actually being experienced that it is effective.
Śyāmasundara: Just like this medicine...
Dr. Weir: Which may not, unfortunately... This is the danger of analogy. This medicine may work in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred and the hundredth one could kill the poor chap. Now you can't say that the physician was cheating in prescribing for the hundredth chap because he just didn't know.
Mensa Member: (indistinct) on the other hand the other medicine might have worked.
Dr. Weir: Hmmm.
Mensa Member: It is very dangerous. Analogy's awfully dangerous.
Dr. Weir: But then some people have to have a concrete example or they haven't any (indistinct) It's when you analyze the analogy that you can see it's difficult...
Prabhupāda: No, analogy, of course, is not always the perfect method. Analogy means the greatest number of similar points. That is analogy. Perfection of analogy is there when there is the greatest number of similar points. But we give sometimes the analogy as we understand it, but so far this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there is no need of analogy. It is accepted as truth and Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and whatever He says is truth. There is no mistake and if we carry that message there is no mistake.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He was there?
Devotee (1): Yes, he was there. He came down on stage, jumping up and down, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then he cooked prasādam. He was very enthusiastic.
Prabhupāda: No, he has promised to me that "Wherever I shall go, I shall chant." That he has promised.
Śyāmasundara: He's going to be... He gave me his address in California, so he'll be living there for some time.
Prabhupāda: I asked him that if he was there he can see me again. Our mission is very nice. We want to see everyone happy. We don't want anything from anyone. We don't say that "You give me fee, then I give you some mantra." No, we don't say like that. Our instruction is free. I want to see that they are doing it and they are happy, that's all. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa bolo, saṅge calo, ei-mātra bhikhā cāi, this Bhaktivinoda's, "You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and come with me. This much I want. I don't want anything else."
Devotee: Even if they mix hydrogen and oxygen to get water, still, where does the hydrogen and oxygen come from?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Wherefrom the chemical comes? Such vast sea water, so where you got so much chemical? Then the next question, that Who supplies the chemicals?
Martin: I've been there before. They all come down the same. They all come to the same place. You said that it is possible to see God eye-to-eye.
Prabhupāda: Yeah.
Martin: How can this be done?
Prabhupāda: You have to be qualified.
Martin: How can you be qualified?
Prabhupāda: This is the process going on in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They become devotee, follow the rules and regulations, the prescribed method, you'll see God. You'll see constantly, twenty-four hours. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti, premāñjana cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). If you have developed such devotion and love for God, then you will see always God. Just like if you have got a child whom you very much love, you'll see the child always in front of you, always. It is due to love. Similarly, you have to develop love for Kṛṣṇa and you'll see Him. He can be seen by love, not by your method. He is not under any method, but He is under love. So you have to develop love and then you'll see. (aside:) There is no flavor. Is it any flavor?
Śyāmasundara: He can oversee some foreign...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has this book department. Book department and... They may move according to convenience, Bali-mardana and Karandhara. He has got also very responsibility, with this department, that department. He has to purchase small houses. So big brain (indistinct). So similarly, you also think on the books. Everyone take big responsibility. Then we have to serve this mission. The people are foolish, they have forgotten God. We are delivering them. Best service. And without God, it is all useless, zero, all this civilization. Zero. Whatever they are making advancement, it is all zero. And nonsense. But actually it is. Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was my intimate friend. So in their house, old Tīrtha Mahārāja went to beg some alms—they are very rich man. So, he informed me that "One nice sannyāsī came to our house," and he was invited, "in Ultadanga there is Gauḍīya Maṭha, so he has invited me. I wish to go there. Why don't you come? Let us go together." He was my very intimate friend. So at that time I was a little pessimistic (?), "I know all these sādhus there, I am not going." So he forced me, "Oh, why not come? Let us go." "All right, let us go." So I went to see His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura in 1922 in that Ultadanga building, and that time Prabhupāda was sitting on the roof. There was small house (indistinct) room, and we were welcome, because they thought Naren Mullik was very rich man and he has contributed some money. So, we went to see Prabhupāda, offered our obeisances. So immediately he said that "You are all educated young men, why don't you preach Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message throughout the whole world?" So I replied him, "Sir, we are dependent nation, who will hear our message? We can talk all these things after we get independence," because I was politically-minded at that time. So he refuted my argument. Certainly I was defeated, and I took his words very seriously, I appreciated. Then we were offered some prasādam, we came down, and my friend Naren Mullik asked me, "How did you like this sādhu?" "Yes, here is a sādhu in whose hands Caitanya Mahāprabhu's message is there, and it will be done. I think this is very nice." That was my appreciation.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) Mahārāja and (indistinct) Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So, my father was Vaiṣṇava, but when I invited these Gauḍīya Maṭha sādhus, my father thought that I have invited some sādhus of the Ramakrishna Mission. So he was not very interested. When Tīrtha Mahārāja is speaking, I call my... My father was that time invalid, I called him that "Please come down, there is a meeting of the Gauḍīya Maṭha sādhus." So, he could not resist my request, he came down, but he did not think that some devotees have come. They thought, these Ramakrishna Mission rascals have come. (laughter) So he was not very happy, but I told, he was sitting. He, so the meeting he just criticized. Then when he heard the speech of our old Tīrtha Mahārāja, our old Godbrother, he understood, "Oh, they are Vaiṣṇavas." Then immediately after the meeting, he came down on his feet. "I misunderstood you sir, that you are the Ramakrishna Mission sādhu. I am so glad to meet you. So that is the beginning of my intimate relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭha. And they are coming, and whenever somebody would come, I would invite them to lecture in my house. In that way Śrīdhara Mahārāja, at that time Rāmendra Sundara Bhaṭṭācārya, he was also invited at my house, and before (indistinct)... No, I think I invited Bhāratī Mahārāja, and you were with Bhāratī Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: I am always (indistinct) to this, my American disciples that you are so much, I mean to say, taken care by God (?), this is... Your position is very good. Now you take to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and you become a perfect nation. That I preach always. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you have got everything. All material opulence. Now make it plus Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be very nice. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. So, these boys are trying, very sincerely and seriously, and I hope, even I do not live many more years, they will carry out this order.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) coming down (indistinct) should be (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And our (indistinct) Mahārāja...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Prabhupāda said, Bhaktivinoda (Bengali).
Prabhupāda: That he was (indistinct). This is not (indistinct). This is not (indistinct).
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) we are also counted within that...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: I, I, I am traveling all over the world. My opinion is that, materially, America is happy. And spiritually some portion of India is happy. Otherwise, there is no happiness all over the world. And material happiness is illusion. That is not happiness. Because it will break at any time. Therefore that is not happiness. And spiritual happiness is real happiness. So in Russia, there is neither material nor spiritual. So they are unhappy in all respects. I asked Professor Kotovsky to call for a taxi. So he said: "Well, it is Moscow. Very difficult to get taxi." So he came down himself, he showed us this way: "Please go in this way, in this way, and you get (to) your hotel." He's a big man. He knows that taxi will not be available. And there are few taxis only, show. I did not see any store very neat and clean, well-decorated. Not a single. All old with dust. As if antique shop. The antique shop, just like in your country. I was daily having my morning walk in the Red Square. The most dangerous square...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What square?
Prabhupāda: Red Square. Yes. I think you have got my picture.
Karandhara: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in trying to make a house, we need certain materials to build the house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materials are already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So similarly when the living entities, when they come down to the material platform...
Prabhupāda: Material is already there. Just like what you are manufacturing. You are... Already everything is there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the chemists or the scientists, what they're thinking is, there are chemical elements, which are the materials necessary for staying the spirit soul within the..., so long as he is within the material world. So they're saying that these material elements—carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen—the main elements, somehow they combine together forming the living units, but our point is the chemicals are there, but in order to start the real nice house, the spirit soul has to enter within these chemical elements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These chemical elements will already help him, by nature's way. Just like you put a seed on the earth. So other things necessary for fructifying that seed, that is already there. They will come to help it. That is already there. Just like the living entity in seed form is impregnated within the womb of the mother. The mother has got within the womb all ingredients. Body will develop. On account of the presence of the living entity, by the laws of nature, everything is there. A dog is forming dog's body, man is forming man's body. Why? Because everything is there. A cat is forming cat's body in the womb of the... Yathā yonir yathā bījam. You haven't got to search out. It is already there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you must be busy.
Mr. Wadell: But what we are talking about is something which doesn't change from today or tomorrow or yesterday. So when these things have been done, perhaps next week, I will come down.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you are welcome. I want that responsible persons like you should try to understand the scientific value of this movement. It is not a sentimental movement. It is based on philosophy, science, authority.
Mr. Wadell: Well, it's on this question of authority, in a sense, that we would have the greatest difficulty. But another time, please.
Prabhupāda: Well, every religion is authority. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: A sacred place. Just like formerly those who were practicing yoga, they were going to Gaṅgotri where the Ganges is coming down, in the Himalaya, in the Haridwar, in a secluded, sacred place. These are the condition, first condition. So where you are getting these conditions fulfilled? You cannot practice yoga in a hotel or in a club. That is not possible.
Student (2): How do you decide whether a place is sacred or not?
Prabhupāda: Sacred place, generally we take as a lonely place, solitary place. If it is not solitary, it is not sacred.
Student (2): Is sacred the same as solitary?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they used to sit down in the Himalaya where the Ganges is coming. That is a sacred place. If you go simply on the Ganges side on the bank of the Ganges, Yamunā, you will find immediately purified your mind, immediately. Or on a seaside where there is nobody disturbing. These are sacred places.
Prabhupāda: They will print it. They will supply in August or July, they said. They'll supply. So it has come out very successful. Just imagine, 200,000 copies distributed within one year.
Professor: In one year. That's very good.
Prabhupāda: And in America, our people go to saṅkīrtana. Many gentlemen comes down, gets down from the car, inquires, "You have got Bhaktivedanta's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is?" They purchase like that. Yes. At least, they have become inquisitive on account of the word "As It Is."
Professor: What?
Prabhupāda: "As It Is."
Professor: Oh, As It Is, yes.
Yogeśvara: Because of the fact that our title is "Bhagavad-gītā As It Is."
Professor: "As It Is."
Yogeśvara: "As It Is." Yes.
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brāhmaṇa family, śucīnām, or very rich, vaiśya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Kṛṣṇa gives His straight understanding, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living. We should not be attracted by these things. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pur ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pur means the heavenly planets.
Pradyumna: Saṁsiddhiṁ paraṁ gati...
Prabhupāda: No... nāpnuvanti. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhim. Siddhi, siddhi is ordinary. If you become transcendentalist, jñānī, yogi, that is also kind of siddhi. Yogis, they have got aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimādi. But that is not saṁsiddhi. Saṁsiddhi is different. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. The highest perfection, saṁsiddhi is to go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is saṁsiddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That will save him from coming down again to this place which is full of miserable conditions of life. That is saṁsiddhi. That one can attain very easily. That is also described, that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who understands Me in truth..." Generally, people understand Kṛṣṇa that "He appeared as a great personality, son of Vasudeva. At Mathurā, He was born. And He acted very gorgeously in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and so on, so on." This is also knowing. But this is not knowing factually that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am saying therefore, disease, not "This disease" or "That disease." Disease mean any kind of disease. That is credit. That is credit. If you guarantee that "Here is a chemical composition; when a man takes it, no more disease," that is credit. But you cannot do that. Then where is your credit? You simply struggle. The struggle we increase. That's all. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We shall come down? The water is coming or...?
Karandhara: Looks like the water is coming up, Prabhupāda.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The waves are very big.
Prabhupāda: Now, such a huge quantity of coloring, wherefrom coming, red color? And it will disappear after few minutes. Have you got any control over it, scientist?
Karandhara: Now there is a big scarcity of dye, coloring dye.
Prabhupāda: Ah, take from here red color. Yes, they can increase the scarcity. That's all. That is in their power.
Umāpati: That is the mystical process of this movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyāsī, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (aside:) That's all right. Why water is here?
Karandhara: I don't know, Prabhupāda. It's a low spot.
Prabhupāda: A Vaiṣṇava's first qualification that he's unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Vaiṣṇava cannot be unhappy. That Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that "I have no problem. I am unhappy seeing these people who are simply engaged in false activities and they do not care for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore I am unhappy." This is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. Not that "I am saved. That's all right." That is materialism. "Let others go to hell. I am saved." That is materialism. A Vaiṣṇava should think always, "Oh, so many people are suffering. What I am doing for them?" That is Vaiṣṇava. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we don't experience, we may not know that we are suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got little freedom. Therefore this freedom is given, "All right..." So by freedom, sometimes we are becoming Lord Brahmā and sometimes the germ in the stool. This is going on. Otherwise, why there are so many different types of living entities? That freedom is acting under three modes: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. And when they are multiplied, three into three equals nine, nine into eighty-one; therefore 8,400,000 species. They experience everything. That is evolution, coming down, again going up, coming down again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So when they become exasperated, "No more." They want to become merging into the Supreme. When they are fatigued. After being karmī, then jñānī: "This is not good. What is actually our aim of life, let us search out." But because they make research in their teeny brain, they come to the conclusion, voidism and impersonalism, that "Make it zero, this botheration." That is also imperfect. So when they come to Bhagavān and engage himself in the service, then it is perfect, original.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Ah! Ataeva śānta. There is śānti. You have to test whether by, by some desire, whether you have become śānta. That is not possible except Kṛṣṇa. When you serve Kṛṣṇa, then you will feel transcendental pleasure. Otherwise you cannot. Sakali aśānta. For mukti they have to do so many things, so many things. So desireless means to desire for Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. That Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. This is desire. "My life after life simply My devotion unto You may be fixed up." That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the beginning He says, na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jaga... (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). "No, no, no, no," not this." Then there must be some positive. And the positive is: mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi. With simply negative, what you'll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you'll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don't get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible. After some time... āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They undergo very good auster..., severe austerities and reach the brahma-jyotir, but there, everything being vacant, they cannot remain there. And they have no information of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they again come down. Patanty adhaḥ. He wants enjoyment, but there is no enjoyment. Simply thinking, "I am Brahman." What is the enjoyment there? You think like a rascal Brahman. Yes, you are Brahman already. Why these sputnik wālās, they go...? (Laughter)
Prabhupāda: They go very high and again come down? Here is... Why you are coming? You have gone so high. There is no shelter. There is no shelter. He must come down. Similarly, to become desireless, there is no shelter. So you must come to this desire, material desire.
Gurukṛpā: It says in the Brahma-saṁhitā that they may go for the speed of...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gurukṛpā: ...the mind, but...
Prabhupāda: Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām (Bs. 5.34). Just like child. We are experiencing. As soon as we finish, cries. And give him something. "All right." So there must be something positive. Simply taking away, vacant that will not satisfy. He'll have to cry again, "Oh, I am vacant. I am vacant." So Māyāvādīs' position is like that. The karmīs, yogis, jñānīs, all they are fools. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "You rascal, you give up all these karmīs, yogis, jñānī, siddhi... Kick out." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the instruction. "Only unto Me. Then you'll be satisfied." Then the karmīs may say, "Oh..." Because he has got idea, without working... Just like all these fools and rascals, they are surprised, "How these people do not work, and how are happy?" They cannot imagine that without working hard, one can eat, one can sleep. But when they see that our devotees, they do not work, they are nobody's servant, "How it is possible?" They cannot think. They cannot think.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We also say that. We say that the beginning the sound vibration oṁ was there. Oṁ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śabdād anāvṛtti. In Vedānta-sūtra, śabdād anāvṛtti. Śabdāt. By vibration.
Prajāpati: But it goes on to say, "Then the word then came down to earth and dwelt with man as Jesus Christ." They say Lord Jesus Christ was the word incarnate.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Umāpati: Incarnate means flesh, having come down in flesh.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Prajāpati: From our Kṛṣṇa conscious standpoint, this means a person who is jagad-guru, who is fully living śāstra, and therefore non-different from the word of God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Because he is following the words of God, therefore he is not different from the words of God. It is practical. Just like a lawyer is not different from the law. Therefore he is called lawyer.
Bhagavān: Fifteen hundred.
Prabhupāda: No. According to our present calculated, about 180 mounds. So there should be 120 mounds excess of grain. Instead of excess, they want ten thousand rupees for maintenance. This is... This management is going on. These things were not discussed in GBC? So what kind of discussion was there? Simply talking? No practical? And the estimate of budget was presented for ten thousand rupees per month. And... And when it was scrutinizingly studied, immediately it came down to six thousand. So what kind of budget? So management should be in that way, that nobody is sitting idly. Automatically he'll fall sick. Sickness means idleness. Or excess eating, sleeping. No excess, no less. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya yogo bhavati duḥkha-hā. Yukta. Yukta means actually what you need. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So everywhere, in each center, this system should be introduced, and there must be practical application of the varṇāśrama. At the same time, this program of devotional service. Then it will go on very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Your parents live in Mexico City?
Guest: No, not Mexico City. (indistinct) I have relatives in Mexico City. When I was there this summer I went to visit one other Hindu establishment that comes down from Śaṅkarācārya.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Guest: On the street (indistinct). But I didn't know you had a branch in Mexico City at the time.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: They're also vegetarians now.
Prabhupāda: Acchā? In Mexico they are vegetarians?
Guest: Well, no. Most Mexicans are not vegetarians, but this, these people who belong to Śaṅkarācārya sampradāya are vegetarians.
Guru Dāsa: Where's the name "Maya" civilization come from?
Guest: I think it's probably just a coincidence that the name is Maya, more than, you know.... (break)
Guest: How's your health?
Prabhupāda: Health is not very good. I am not (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: ...described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa... That is siddha. That is siddha. All rascals. This is siddha. Api cet sudurācāraḥ. Because he's sticking to this principle, that "Kṛṣṇa is my everything," sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). That is sādhu (break) ...real things are not... And, and the next verse says, śaśvad bhavati dharmātmā. Because he has taken to this principle, other good qualities will soon come there. Don't bother. But first thing is that he has taken that "Kṛṣṇa is my life." Ananya-bhāk. Then everything will come. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). This is wanted. That is siddhi. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ.
- mām upetya punar janma
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
- saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
- (BG 8.15)
This is... One who has captured Kṛṣṇa, he has got siddhi. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramām. The highest perfection he has attained. That is wanted. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... If... One may be reluctant to sex life for a few days. Then again he'll do that. Because he has no shelter. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param... Even they go to the Brahmaloka, they come down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param. Kṛcchra, very severe austerities. They rise up to the Brāhmaṇaḥ padavī (?), and again fall down. Because they have no shelter. So all these siddhis are simply temporary. It has no meaning. It has no value. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So these siddhas will take many, many births to come to the point of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante.
Mahāṁsa: ...material nature, it can become weightless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A dead body immediately goes down in the water, but a living body floats. So this is the example, that because viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthita. Because Kṛṣṇa enters this material world as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, therefore it floats. Just like this airplane. It is floating so long the pilot is there. If the pilot is not there, it will not float, however good machine it may be. It will not float; it will come down. These are the ex... (break) ...soul, the spiritual spark, even in minute quantity, it can float the heaviest matter. This is the conclusion. (break) ...so high and if the pilot is killed some way or other, no more floating, come down.
Girirāja: Another thing we were discussing yesterday is that in Goloka there are no demons.
Prabhupāda: No. There cannot be any demons. Then how it is Vaikuṇṭha? Vaikuṇṭha means without any anxiety. So the situation of anxiety is created by the demons. Therefore, when Kṛṣṇa wants to fight, He has to come down here because there is no question of fighting. There is no chance of fighting. Everyone is devotee. A devotee will never agree. But they will agree Kṛṣṇa's fight, but here, in this field.
Girirāja: But the sentiment of anxiety or fear for Kṛṣṇa, is that sentiment in Goloka?
Prabhupāda: No. There is no such thing. That is separation. Just like gopīs, they are full of anxiety: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to the pasturing ground." Their anxiety is there. Just like Rukmiṇī, she was thinking, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa may not give me up. He is talking in this way." She fainted. So anxiety is there. So the anxiety is that one may not be separated from Kṛṣṇa. That is the anxiety. And actually there is no separation, but the feeling of separation out of ecstatic love. Just like one who has got love for the other person, beloved, he always thinks like that, "My beloved may not be separated from me." This is ecstasy of love.
Prabhupāda: This is the device, that he agitated Indra, and he came down and surrendered unto Him. This is the device. Not directly punishing. That he came to understand what is the value of Kṛṣṇa.
Yaduvara: "My dear Lord, You are the supreme father, supreme spiritual master and supreme king." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...accepted by Indra is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...composed after Mahābhārata.
Yaduvara: "Due to my gross ignorance, I created great disturbance in Vṛndāvana by sending torrents of rain and heavy hailstorms." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...first of all, being observed by father of Kṛṣṇa. It is very important. (break) ...necessity of tapasya, if one worships Kṛṣṇa? Nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And after austerities, if he does not know Kṛṣṇa, then what is the value of his tapasya? (break) ...imitating here, that is lust.
Prabhupāda: Ah. They cannot understand what is the meaning of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are such dull headed men. They have no brain to understand. They are coming down again. Just like the dog's tail. Know, dog's tail. You may, however grease it... (laughs) They are hearing about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The aim is the body, the dog's tail. They are hearing daily about Kṛṣṇa na..., but they cannot understand. It is very difficult. These karmīs... Now they say... Because we are reading this Bhāgavatam, now gradually they dispersed. Gradually they dispersed. They are not interested. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And if you talk politics and all nonsense, oh, they will gather.
Indian man (2): I told him about the drafts, you see, that you made the other day. I said, "Prabhupāda has only agreed. It was so magnanimous of him, so magnanimous."
Prabhupāda: Yes, I told you Friday, you write, I shall sign it. And why they are agitating and stopped such a function? And that is very regrettable. Gosvāmī means vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ viṣaheta. If there is some krodha, you should tolerate. Now here is a Vaiṣṇava, he has done so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the reception was there, and he stopped. How he is gosvāmī? He expressed his krodha in that very moment, just to take retaliation. It is not gosvāmī. What do you think? Krodha-vegam. It is a krodha, but he could not tolerate that krodha-vegam. He retaliated at the right moment and to a person, fit person who was to be honored. Just see. And he claims to be gosvāmī. The first business is vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam. The Vaikuṇṭha mentality is that if one is serving—I have read it in Bhāgavata—Kṛṣṇa better than somebody else, he would simply appreciate that "Kṛṣṇa has so much favored him. Oh, how fortunate he is. When I shall be able?" That is Vaikuṇṭha mentality. And the material mentality is, "Oh, he has advanced so much. How to come down him?" That is material. This is the difference between Vaikuṇṭha mentality. So his business is how to come down. So he is not a gosvāmī. At least I will not accept. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?
Prabhupāda: Sometimes "I am so up," and again come down. This is going on. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān. Therefore, in this way, going round, one who is very, very fortunate, he, guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151), he comes to the devotional life by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. This is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. They are under the myth, under the spell of māyā. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Where there is evolution, there must be degradation. Otherwise, what is the meaning of evolution? Why it should be stagnant? If you go, ascend, then you can descend also. Now, the Mr. Nixon was elected president, and why he's being dragged, "Come down." He is not coming down, but he has already come down, degradation. Nobody likes him.
M. Lallier: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And the more he sticks to his position, he's becoming unpopular. So his degradation is already complete, but because he's in the office, post, he does not agree that, "I am degraded." But from the public point of view, he's degraded. Is it not?
M. Lallier: Yes. But do you think it is possible now to, to predict, to prevent degradation?
Yogeśvara: He says now there's been this degradation of human consciousness throughout the ages. So do you think it is possible now to stop this course of events, to stop this degradation in human consciousness?
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to stop this degradation of the human society.
Prabhupāda: Then why shall I agree to his point? (French) So...
Yogeśvara: So he says, "So I have to leave now. But the last thing I'd like to say is that I reject that conclusion just like I reject also the Christian conclusion that the truth is in the Evangel. But," he says, "that doesn't impede me, that doesn't stop me from working very nicely with some of my best friends who are Christians when it comes down to practical work."
Prabhupāda: No, what is his opinion? That he never disclosed. (French)
Bhagavān: But what practical thing is he doing?
Pṛthu Putra: What he says, what he says... He's not Christian. He's actually, he's atheist and he's materialist. But he says he guides the people to read the Bhagavad-gītā because he says in Bhagavad-gītā there's something more than in the Evangel.
Prabhupāda: So we say also same thing. So where is the disagreement? (French)
Jyotirmayī: He says that in his political work, he teaches sometimes Bhagavad-gītā, and people are very interested.
Yogeśvara: He says he is the only Communist to suggest to people that they read the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: No, we recommend everyone to read Bhagavad-gītā. (French) What is that?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins. That is stated by Yāmunācārya. (Sanskrit). Yāmunācārya, a great saintly person, he was formerly big king, so he said, "Since I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious and enjoying, since that time, as soon as I remember even sex life, I spite (spit) on it and my mouth becomes turned."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Varṇa-saṅkara. There is no varṇāśrama; therefore all the children, they are varṇa-saṅkara. And as soon as there is varṇa-saṅkara population, the world becomes hell. Therefore we are trying to check—"No illicit sex"—to stop this varṇa-saṅkara. Now the varṇa-saṅkara has come to such an extent that they are killing child, and that is legal. They have come down to such a extreme position.
Guest (4): But surely there is a practical point of view also. There is nothing to eat. What will happen?
Prabhupāda: Who says nothing to eat? That is also their manufacture.
Guest (4): I mean the figures which are published that half of humanity will starve.
Prabhupāda: It's... Especially, we are Indian. It is advertised that we are poverty-stricken. All over the world this is advertised. Wherever I go, they say, "Oh, you are coming from India?" (laughter) Because they are simply begging, the government. But who is dying? There is... Dying is going on, but that death is going on in other countries also. They are dying, committing suicide. And maybe some persons are dying out of starvation. You cannot stop death. Suppose you have got enough food. That means that everything is solved? In America there is enough food. Why they are coming hippies? There is no shortage of food. Nothing... Everything is abundant, but why they are becoming hippies? They are lying down on the street, on the park and I have seen in London, the St. James Park. They are sleeping, and the police is kicking: "Hey! Get up! Get up!" So why? The English nation is not poor nation. The American nation is not poor nation.
Devotee (2): And then after a while, when they become our friends, then they may stop and listen to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because he has chanted Kṛṣṇa, "Here is the Kṛṣṇa man. Here is the rascal Kṛṣṇa man." (laughter)
Tripurāri: We found one policeman at the Atlanta airport was always harassing the devotees, trying to stop them. And one time I came down the stairs and I saw him in the corner reading Īśopaniṣad and trying to understand. They know that we have some knowledge; they are just envious of our success. They want to find out, "What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness about?" They don't want to admit that they want to know. Actually everyone wants to know about Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must.
Tripurāri: You said that everyone is hankering for these books.
Prabhupāda: So he read that Īśopaniṣad?
Tripurāri: Yes. He tried to understand.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Tripurāri: Now he does not harass us so much now.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So we have to do like that. Here everyone is demon, everyone. Demon means they are busy for sense gratification. That is demon. And devotee means he has no sense gratification. He is only busy how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is the devotee. Anyway, if you serve Kṛṣṇa sincerely, Kṛṣṇa is with you. You will never fall in danger.
Prabhupāda: Everything exists. For the time being, he may merge; then again he'll come to enjoy this material body. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. Patanty adhaḥ. Even they become merged into the existence of Brahman, again they come back because there is no āśraya. Just like these air, airplanes or the jets. They have invented very good machine, eighteen thousand miles per hour, going very high, but there is no place. They come down again. That is a fact. What is the use of going so high, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and travel and then again come back. Why do you take unnecessary trouble if you cannot stay there? You migrated from Europe and other countries to America. You got shelter. You stayed there. That colonization was successful. But if you are going to colonize in the moon and there is no place to stay, then why you are spending so much money unnecessarily? What is this foolishness? And they have stopped now. So in this way they are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but where to stay? They can stay in the Brahman effulgence as minute particle of soul, but the soul wants ananda, then again—"It was better to live in the material world." They come back again.
Prabhupāda: Everything cheated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She even said that she had four stillborn children. And we went to the hospital and there was no record of her having even been admitted to the hospital. Bali Mardana, she told him to wait downstairs while she gave birth to the four children and then two hours later she came down, she said, "Now it is finished." And he took her and drove away.
Prabhupāda: Mesmerized.
Brahmānanda: And there was talk that you had said that those four stillborn children were incarnations of Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, she was think that by cheating this man I am becoming successful. Then she, without any restriction, she began to cheat.
Paramahaṁsa: He says it's pure when the rain comes down, but when it hits the ground it becomes impure and then the salt gets in it.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is not... Rain water is pure water.
Justin Murphy: Sure.
Prabhupāda: So when it touches the ground, it may become impure. It doesn't water (matter). But the water is pure. Water is coming. You cannot take water from the sea and moisten the ground with... That is not possible. But if pure water comes down from the rain, it is utilized.
Justin Murphy: But a lot of the water that is in our dams and the water that we use for irrigation south of here, which is the basis for the dairy produce of Perth, is becoming slowly, because of its contact with the ground and its travel through the soil and its seepage out into streams and into underground areas, that water is slowly becoming in many respects almost as salty as the sea.
Prabhupāda: But first of all, you want water. If the water is reserved on the top of the hill, then it gradually comes down. That is nature's, God's, arrangement: Let river fall down, and you can use that water. That is the nature's arrangement. Just like you keep your water on the tank, and by pipe you get down. But there is nature's arrangement. The water is stocked on the top of the hill, and throughout the whole year the pipe is the river. That water must be there. That is the first problem. Therefore here it is said, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. You must have sufficient water. Water is already there. But it has to be purified, kept on the top of the hill, water tank, and it will come down in rivers. Then you take and utilize. And when the water falls down and there is sufficient water, the ground becomes cleansed so it is no more polluted.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is earth? (laughs) All bogus.
Amogha: But if we tell that that there is no law of gravity, they will say that why is it that if you throw up a ball then it comes down?
Prabhupāda: It comes down, heavy, then it comes down, that's all. (laughs)
Amogha: But that heaviness they say is gravity.
Prabhupāda: You can call anything. (laughs) But if Kṛṣṇa desires, a football may not fall. Just like so many planets, they are carried up by the air. All these planets are moving only by the air. So the heavy land, heavy cloud is carried by the air. It is a question of adjustment of air, not the law of gravity. Now the whole universal planetary system are floating and rotating round the polestar. Is it law of gravity, they are rotating? It is the arrangement of the air, by the air it is up. Just like there is dust storm, so many are floating in the air. There is no question of law of gravity; it is the air. And the who is controlling the air? That is Supreme Personality. Just like in Darwin, the motor buses were floating by the air. It was a great storm there?
Amogha: Yes, hurricane.
Jesuit: That's the second person made man, become human, becomes a man.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is very important, but He is son, a very important son. Just like father may have many sons, but one of them may be very important, very good assistant to the father so Christ is like that. He is son of God, very important, He's helping God coming down to reclaim these fallen souls that "Come to God, why you are suffering here?" Son, He's very faithful and important son. But the others, they are also sons, but they have forgotten God. Therefore they are suffering. So sometimes He sends His son or His devotee and sometimes He comes Himself, that is Kṛṣṇa.
Jesuit: And He comes in bodily form?
Prabhupāda: Yes. God has... Why, the son has got body then the father has got body. Your son has got body so you have got your body. Without the father having body, how the son can get body?
Jesuit: I don't understand that.
Prabhupāda: If... Suppose your son, you have got this body, so your father must have body.
Jesuit: Yes, true.
Prabhupāda: Millions and millions of tons water taken and distributed. Why their scientists so proud of their achievement? What they can do?
Madhudviṣa: Hm. It is amazing. There is no factory in the sky to purify the water. Simply by the evaporation of the sun, the water is held up in the sky, and immediately it comes down pure.
Prabhupāda: And it is stored on the mountain head and it comes down. Eternal supply. Whole year's supply through the rivers, huge water. You have seen that, what is name, Niagara Falls?
Madhudviṣa: Yes. You have seen? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Huge water. There are many falls like that. Clean, clear, nice, sweet water is coming. There is sweet-water sea also.
Madhudviṣa: In the sea.
Prabhupāda: No, not here. In the sky. There is sweet water, very sweet, nice water, drinking water, sea. Sea of ghee, sea of yogurt, sea of milk. Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Make his father-in-law also interested.
Raymond: Well, he was here on Sunday. He came down on Sunday.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes? So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice. We can make friend anyone. So you are going? Thank you very much for your coming.
Raymond: Thank you very much for your time. You've been most gracious and kind with us. I hope you have a nice trip.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Madhudviṣa: He's coming back in January too. Maybe then we can have a longer meeting.
Prabhupāda: It is very nice place. I wish to stay here but I have got so many branches I have to go.
Prabhupāda: Dice, yes. If the dice falls on the face of the serpent, immediately it comes down. We have to come to the tail.
Śrutakīrti: Back to the start.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is like that. Goloka nadha(?). One is trying to go to back to home, back to Godhead. A little discrepancy... Mahārāja Bhārata? Yes, he became deer. Therefore we should be very careful. That is the instruction. Even Mahārāja Bhārata, he fell down. So therefore how much careful we should be. These are the instructions to become careful. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31), always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will save you. That Kṛṣṇa chanting and hearing, that will keep us safe. Example is given: just like a polluted woman is doing all household work, but she is always thinking when she will meet with her paramour at night. This example is... Similarly, we may be engaged in different material activities, but if we keep our faith in Kṛṣṇa, then it will save us. It is possible. Just like the example: the woman is engaged in household affairs very diligently, but she is always thinking when she will meet her paramour.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...Siddhaloka the residents, men, they also can fly. Siddhaloka. They can go from one planet to another by flying. (break) ...eating, they come down, these birds?
Siddha-svarūpa: Do they come down to eat?
Prabhupāda: For eating?
Siddha-svarūpa: I've never seen them on the ground. I think they might be eating something in the rain. There's actually particles in the rain. Isn't there?
Prabhupāda: There is a bird, cataka. They drink rain water.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The example is given, these cataka birds, they want water from the cloud and they will never come down to take water, take water down. Similarly, devotees will simply depend on Kṛṣṇa. They'll not accept anything from this material world. (break) Example is given that sometimes the cloud, instead of giving water, gives thunderbolt. Still, they will not take water from down. That is a cataka. Although it is... Sometimes they are punished—instead of water, they are given thunderbolt—but still, they will not take any.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Let him come. I shall talk with him.
Bahulāśva: Dr. Judah now is in a theological convention in Boston, and he'll be getting back on Tuesday. So he said he'll come down then immediately.
Prabhupāda: Regulative principle is the groundwork foundation of everything. Academic career has nothing to do with it. (break) ...bhaktasya kuto mahad guṇā. Anyone who is not factual devotee, his good qualification, academic qualification, has no value.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Many of the students at the Graduate Theological Union, they might want to come to our college to take just one or two courses. Would it be all right for them to do that?
Prabhupāda: No, everyone is welcome. But they must see what is our ideal. Then one day they will also come. So our ideal should be always there, not that we make some compromise. Then it will not be effective.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I thought you said that the demons are not in Kṛṣṇaloka. That's just in Gokula, when Kṛṣṇa comes here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa wants to enjoy to kill the demons. In the Kṛṣṇaloka there is no demons. He doesn't get that opportunity. Therefore He comes down to enjoy killing. Just like hunter, by killing, enjoys, so Kṛṣṇa enjoys by killing the demons. (break) Water?
Brahmānanda: Water core. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...no rose here? We don't see any rose.
Kuruśreṣṭha: They don't like to grow nice things for fear someone will take them.
Bahulavana: There's a big rose garden by the museum.
Kuruśreṣṭha: They don't grow fruit trees in the park because someone will eat them.
Prabhupāda: And he will not work. Escaping. (break) ...demonic mentality, "I shall not do anything which will be enjoyed by others." And human mentality is that "I shall do something which will be enjoyed by others." That is human mentality.
Woman reporter: What about women who are elected by the people?
Prabhupāda: Well, people election... Just like you elected Nixon and then you wanted him to come down. So this kind of election has no value. Sometimes you elect and sometimes you pull down. So what is the value of this election?
Woman reporter: So a leader should not be elected.
Prabhupāda: Elected, but not by this general public. They have no intelligence. They sometimes elect a wrong man, and again they try to drag him down. So what is the use of such election? Because that election is not sober, not mature. If the election was mature and sober, then there was no need of dragging him down again.
Woman reporter: We have talked to scientists who say that the size of the brain has nothing to do with intelligence. Do you believe that?
Prabhupāda: I think that the scientists do not think like that. They keep the brain of a particular scientist to study. They keep the heart of a particular noble man. Why they try to study the heart and the brain if there is no difference?
Paramahaṁsa: How it is? It's a line for a kite, and it's wound upon on a stick, and to make the kite go higher you unleash...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is going on. Sometimes the kite is going on, it is also rounding. And when the kite is coming down, that is also rounding. But you see one thing. But one thing is coming down; one is going up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's defective vision which...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a cat catching a rat in the mouth, his position, and catching the cub, kit, what is called?
Brahmānanda: Kitten.
Prabhupāda: You see that it is on the mouth, but one is feeling pleasure, and one is feeling finished. (laughter)
Yadubara: The materialists say that it's very morbid to talk so much about death. They say it is very depressing to speak so much about death.
Prabhupāda: Because they are rascals, they cannot conquer. Everyone doesn't like death, but because they cannot conquer, they say like that, "Grapes are sour. Don't bother." After jumping, jumping, jumping, when the grapes were not available, "It is sour, no use."
Prabhupāda: So you will never discover the cure, and he will never come out. Now somebody was saying that this freezing, the body within, they decompose. The parts of the body are separate. That is... As we have... You take the frozen vegetable. It is tasteless. It is decomposed.
Paramahaṁsa: So actually it comes down to what Tamāla Kṛṣṇa asked. For example, the scientists may say, "Well, you say that we have a life after death, that we should conquer over death, but I cannot see it. I cannot see anyone who has come back."
Prabhupāda: You cannot see even what is there after hundred years. What is the value of your eyes? Why you are proud of your eyes?
Paramahaṁsa: So you say it's based on faith.
Prabhupāda: Not faith, it is fact. Just like if somebody says me, "The other side is Japan." I cannot see, so I may disbelieve. But that's a fact; Japan is there.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you cannot say that gravitation draws things downward. If gravitation... You will find cloud, thousands of tons of water. Why it is not down? Cloud, why it does not come down?
Rādhāvallabha: Because it is in vapor form. It has not condensed yet.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but it is weighty.
Rādhāvallabha: It is waiting for the proper temperature.
Prabhupāda: Then everything is conditional. Everything conditional.
Rādhāvallabha: So these conditions are part of nature.
Prabhupāda: That is all right. But you cannot say, "This is the law: 'Everything will come down.' " These things are not coming down. So if there is... Not only this cloud, so many planets, hundreds and millions and millions of tons, how they are flying? How they are stayed on the sky? Everyone knows it.
Prabhupāda: "Can happen," that post-dated check again. This is the only shelter, post-dated check.
Hṛdayānanda: So it again comes down to faith on their part.
Prabhupāda: All rascals. Don't waste time. But see their rascaldom.
Satsvarūpa: One claim the scientists make is that they're more humble in their knowledge than we are. They don't say that this is the absolute...
Prabhupāda: Why we should be humble? We are not foolish men, that we shall be humble. We must be proud of our knowledge. You are foolish; you become humble. (laughter) The dog is humble; man is not humble. The dog may bark, and man—"Shut up!" Immediately... So you are like dogs. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal?
Yogeśvara: (aside:) The top has come down? (pause)
Prabhupāda: What is the... Time now?
Harikeśa: 6:17.
Prabhupāda: Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving: Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi. They took responsibility, but they were driven away. What can I do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then where is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman—you have taken responsibility—but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executed? The Napoleon was given horse urine. You know? By the Britishers.
Prabhupāda: ...side.
Cyavana: From the hills, from these mountains. There are lakes and reservoirs and it comes down. There's a lot of rainfall on certain parts of the island all year.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were speaking of anarthas and one of the lesser age boys was wondering... He's asking why we shouldn't take tea.
Prabhupāda: Because intoxication. You become addicted. You are asking because you cannot give up tea. Therefore you are asking. Therefore it should be given up. You become servant of tea. Otherwise there is no question of asking. His asking means you want to drink. That means he has become servant of tea. Our original position—we are servant of God. So we are going to be servant of God. So if we remain servant of this material world, we cannot become servant of God. (break) ...unnecessary are advertised and people become victimized.
Prabhupāda: And this side, they are coming from Europe?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This side, coming from the oil countries, coming down the coast, and also coming… (break)
Prabhupāda: How long they can stay in the water?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If it's warm weather they can stay all day.
Prabhupāda: Acchā?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the cold weather, a few hours. They put on these black suits made out of a certain fabric—it's called a wet suit—and they are able to stay in the water much longer. It insulates, insulates the body from the cold water.
Prabhupāda: Going for surfing?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These gentlemen? No, I don’t think so. These young boys are. (break) …surf, we tell them, "Yes, we surf in the ocean of bhakti-rasa."
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. (break) … karma bandha phasa: one after another. Asate vilāsa: material enjoyment means implicated in unnecessary activities. If people are satisfied, plain living, then these things are not necessary: go into the ocean, find out oil, then bring it in the port, then distribute it, so many, one after another. That, this kind of civilization, they think it is advanced. And to live very plainly, minimizing this unnecessary activity, they think it is not civilization.
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ice was coming down, hail. Hail. Before we went to the program there was hail, ice coming down. It's gone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the window there was "cut, cut." (break) ...African government policy to keep these Africans', er, service, yes, for working, get money. They will remain happy in that way. They have no brain. They cannot govern. It is not possible. So this policy is nice.
Harikeśa: Someone was telling me that the weather here was supposed to be like Miami.
Prabhupāda: Miami? (break) ...places were reserved for the sinful man in Kali-yuga. Formerly the Aryans never touched these places.
Prabhupāda: Take it away and leave here.
Dr. Patel: No, I don't want it. (laughter) This has come from South Africa?
Prabhupāda: No, no. It was presented by Visalini in Vṛndāvana. One American girl student, she has given it. (break)
Dr. Patel: Man-manā bhava. Perpetually. It is just like an insect climbing a wall. Immediately it comes down on the ground. It takes about twenty-four hours.
Prabhupāda: No, no. If you practice... Just like these boys. They are chanting "Hare Kṛṣṇa," so their mind is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. Man-mana. And they can do it without any being afraid by public criticism because they are mad-bhakta. They have become bhakta. Others, they will afraid: "I am such and such person. If I chant then what the others will speak?" (laughter) But a devotee is not afraid of anyone.
Prabhupāda: You must go to the real land. If you take, "This is land. Now I am safe," no, that is not safe. At night it will be overcome. And that, to go to the real land, means to become a devotee. Then it will stay. If you are suffering from some disease, you see now the temperature is gone down or there is no temperature, that is all right. But if you do not take care, it may relapse. That is the point. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati (BG 18.54). These are brahma-bhutaḥ stage. But samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktim. If he does not go up to that point, mad-bhaktim labhate param, then you are unstable. You can fall down at any moment. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). If you are in Brahman stage, then you make further progress to understand Paramātmā. Then you must make further progress to understand the Supreme Person, God. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti. So unless you come to the stage of understanding Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no safety. Then he may fall down at any moment. Therefore we see so, so many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, yogīs. They fall down. They fall down. Big, big sannyāsī, they, after studying so much... The Karpatraji, now he is fall down to politics. Vivekananda, he fell down to hospital. That is fall down. You say, brahma satya jagan mithya: "The world is false." Why you come down to false again? That means you did not get any substance in your so-called Brahman knowledge.
Dr. Patel: We have in Mahābhārata, that, I mean, Bhima threw away those elephants and rowing in the sky. And when Parīkṣit thought "How could it be?" then that elephants came down in the story. That means they were rowing about just like sputniks of today, perhaps. I don't know how they might have...
Prabhupāda: No, three books they have taken. They paid some eight lakhs of rupees. That Mr. Badhuri told me. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: That means this civilization must have felt the pangs of the modern sciences and then they must have lost it. No?
Prabhupāda: Not lost. It is there. You don't take it. That's it. What is there? One who can read... Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Good boy.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Dr. Patel: No, no. Now rice will be very much down. In Gujarat it is two rupees. I bought some land here and sown the rice. We are going to get about eight hundred or a thousand mounds of rice. And when we sown the field it was sixty rupees, rice. Today it is thirty-two rupees. It is coming down. The crop is very good everywhere, all over India this year.
Prabhupāda: Because there was sufficient rain.
Dr. Patel: Very good rain, yes. Gujarat will be more than self-sufficient. It is already the richest part of this country.
Prabhupāda: Parjanyāt.
Dr. Patel: Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Annād bhavati bhūtāni. It is...
Prabhupāda: This is cycle. Perform yajña and everything will come. They have stopped yajña... Therefore hari-nāma-yajña, this is the yajña.
Dr. Patel: Viṣṇu... Viṣṇur vai yajñaḥ. Viṣṇu Himself is yajña.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhāvānanda: Someone had mentioned that we should start up in Bihar and come down into Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Do you think if they go to Orissa it will be nice? No? The saṅkīrtana party.
Akṣayānanda: Orissa will be nice?
Prabhupāda: So you talk with him.
Bhāvānanda: Yes. (break)
Akṣayānanda: ...say to me what do I think of Pāgal Bābā? And I would say, "Well, our Guru Mahārāja does not approve of us smoking cigarettes." And they will say, "But he smokes cigarettes." And I would say, "That is because he is pāgal." And they would agree. (break)
Prabhupāda: These four principles will make so many bogus bābās as useless, simply if you follow these four principles.
Prabhupāda: So in this way the nonsense scientists are going on. What do you think? Eh?
Harikeśa: So this idea of friction causing electricity, so is electricity—this electrical energy—the source of fire? That's what the scientists think sometimes too, that the lightning bolt came down and made a fire. And that was man's first experience of fire as a caveman.
Akṣayānanda: So where did the lightning bolt come from?
Prabhupāda: Yes. How the lightning was manufactured, rascal?
Harikeśa: Well, there were some positive charges in the clouds and some negative charges in the ground.
Prabhupāda: That's alright. Who made that positive charge and negative charge?
Akṣayānanda: So let them manufacture lightning bolts in the Tata factory.
Prabhupāda: How the electricity is produced unless there is some arrangement? Just put counter-argument and argument, try to understand. You have to preach. So your argument stopped?
Harikeśa: I don't know anything about this. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You cannot... Your malador masjid(?). Arguments are there, so whether there is life in the sun globe?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Indian man: So I was telling my wife, she said that you read that Bhāgavatam, where that Bāṇ(āsura) is there, that Śiva means having, producing jvārā, fever, so Viṣṇujvārā is cold only, so that Viṣṇujvārā will bring down the fever. So you were just reading more Bhāgavatam only, when you are sick. Anybody who is suffering from fever means you read such and such a portion, so it should come down.
Prabhupāda: No, Viṣṇu should not be utilized for curing your fever. (laughter) That is not bhakti. That is business.
Indian man: So you are always reaching for bhakti point. That is too high for mundane people to reach.
Prabhupāda: That is bhakti, high, highest. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). If you have real bhakti, then you can understand Vaiṣṇava. To know Viṣṇu-avan manasā-gocara: it is very difficult.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bhavānanda: On every level. Even the people this invitation was issued to. But they come, and when they come on Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's appearance day, they all come down the road to here to visit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really.
Bhavānanda: Even he gives off so much energy inviting this one and that one, they all come. They all want to come down the road. They at least come down for darśana.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They do?
Bhavānanda: Yes, they have to. They've all been here. They all know it. They come with different personalities, different friends... In Krishnanagar, we are like the cinema in terms of entertainment. As soon as any man, any official, government official, his friends come from Calcutta, immediately they get in one of the government jeeps and they drive out here and come to see the ISKCON Maṭha, Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir. Immediately. So many men, they come all the time with their friends from Calcutta. Same thing in Navadvīpa. They come for an evening's...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) They are being watered regularly, eh? (break) ...the neighbors, they do not like to sell, so don't bother. Let them keep it green. We shall see it. While walking we shall see all green at their expense. (laughter) Don't be eager to purchase. Just see. As soon as we began this digging, immediately he came down one thousand. And if you really purchase, he'll come and give at three thousand dollars. And he was asking six thousand. They came to seek some service. If it is possible, then give them, engage them. They said, "You are giving employment, so many." Is it possible?
Jayapatākā: They can carry sand.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Jayapatākā: They can carry sand by bullock cart.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I am world preacher."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is so kind that He is sitting in everyone's heart to give him good advice. There is no need of asking. He is only finding out the good opportunity to speak to him. (Bengali) Two birds sitting? So He is always eager to give you advice. He comes down to give you advice. So we are not taking the advice. That is the position.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sarvasya cāham...
Indian man (2): Hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ, He said. So who is taking His advice? Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Who is surrendering? Hm? Therefore Kṛṣṇa came again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu how—to surrender—but still the rascals will not do that.
Prabhupāda: Frozen. Frozen ocean. Means they are defeated; they are coming down. By the sun they are defeated. They were high. "Now go down." Now it will be finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Burnt off. (break) What is the way to draw the line between the following three things: blasphemy, fault-finding, and calling a spade a spade?
Prabhupāda: A spade a spade... Just like I am saying that "What you are? You are small fig only." That is reality. And what is the other?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other is fault-finding and...
Prabhupāda: Fault-finding, that is another fault, that... vraṇam icchanti, makṣikā vraṇam icchanti, madhum icchanti(?) Just like the flies, they are finding out where is sore, and the bees, they are finding out where there is honey. So two animals, they have got two business: fault-finding and collecting the good things. These are two... Just like creature. They are two classes. Similarly, there are many rascals who are simply fault-finding.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guru-kṛpā: "What does He do? Why doesn't He come down and help the poor people? They are suffering."
Acyutānanda: I tell them there's...
Guru-kṛpā: "Why doesn't He come and help them?"
Acyutānanda: In Andhra, I said, "There's so much land where they're growing tobacco. You could grow food." But in the Gītā, it says, "Once coming there, he never returns."
Prabhupāda: But if he likes, he can return.
Acyutānanda: He can return.
Prabhupāda: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown.
Prabhupāda: It can continue. It can continue.
Dr. Patel: They come down there and just stay for pleasure. Because this temple.
Prabhupāda: No, no, nobody can stay without following our rules and regulations. That is not our...
Dr. Patel: Externally they may follow. They may be people, out of difficulty...
Guru dāsa: Everyone is in difficulty.
Prabhupāda: It will be an institution for teaching spiritual life. So if he does not take the teaching, then it is not...
Dr. Patel: One thing, you must have a Sanskrit school.
Prabhupāda: That we can have. Sanskrit is already there in the books.
Prabhupāda: And they're taking it, highly civilized way of life. Where you are going? You cannot go beyond this earth. You attempted so much to go to the moon planet, you failed. And where you can go, put-put-put-put? You'll have to stay here. But that rascal does not understand. He thinks, "I am going very fast." Where you are going? You are destined to stay here. That he does not understand. Not only this put-put motorcycle, the put-put airplane also. They're also trying to go to this planet around, round. That sputnik, first sputnik, eighteen thousand miles, and they simply rounded over the world in one hour and twenty-five minutes. And where did you go? And when he's tired, then come down again. They cannot understand, these so-called scientists, that we cannot go in this way. There is higher authority. Why it will allow us to go anywhere? Just like the horse running fast, but within the race course. That's all. It cannot go beyond the race course. And similarly, however heroic expedition we may show, you are, what is called, baddha-jīva, conditioned. You cannot cross the condition, that is not possible.
Prabhupāda: So same thing: if the pilot is not expert, then goes down to the lowest, finished. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. If the pilot is third class, instead of going up, he goes down, and everything is spoiled. So everything on the pilot. The machine is not important. The machine can go up if the pilot knows how to do it. And the machine can go down. Actually, it is happening. This landing point is very dangerous. If the pilot cannot handle very nicely, immediately smashed. The crash takes place while going up and coming down, generally. That is due to mismanagement of the pilot. When in the sky it is regular speed and balance, it is going nicely. There is no crisis. All crises take place while coming down and going up. Leaving the land and coming the land. I have seen sometimes, they clap as soon as they.... (Prabhupāda claps his hands. Devotees laugh) "The danger is over." So ūrdhvam and adhaḥ. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. So in this way, you have to place the subject matter, that the living entity, the soul, is the important thing within this body. Because he's struggling. On account of his ignorance, he's struggling. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is his position.
Guru-kṛpā: Even in Moscow, big city.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That Professor Kotofsky, I asked him, "Please arrange for a taxi." (indistinct) "Well, Swamiji, this is Moscow." So he came down to the gate—he was very virtuous—he showed me, "You go this way, actually there was 3 or 4 lane then you find a short lane, then you go this way, this way, then you get to your hotel. He showed me some short cut, personally. They... He could not call a taxi. And somewhere we went, we got a taxi, private taxi, and that man was begging for more than the fare.
Prabhupāda: All accident takes place while coming down. Or while going up. On the sky there is no danger.
Devotee: They call it traffic control system in the sky. Just like there is traffic on the road, they call it the traffic control system. They have so much traffic in the air.
Prabhupāda: What they control?
Hari-śauri: They keep them flying around the airport until there's room for them to come in.
Prabhupāda: That already they are doing. When there is no space, they send news, that "Don't come down." So they come like this.
Devotee: They have been known to hit in the air.
Mādhavānanda: Māyā-sukhāya.
Prabhupāda: So the airport is also becoming a problem.
Indian man: Swami, there was a news item in the paper last year, some research scholars at Jesuit University performed some experiments, and then they said that Kṛṣṇa consciousness people lose initiative for doing things. They don't fight the battle of life. It takes away the initiative from them. It was published in papers.
Prabhupāda: No, that's not the fact. It is misunderstanding. We are actually struggling for achievement of the highest goal of life. Otherwise, why we are writing so many books? It is for the human beings. And they are being accepted. It is not for the cats and dog. This Bhāgavatam is not meant for the cats and dogs. So, vidyā bhāgavatāvadhi. In the beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vedyaṁ vāstavam atra (SB 1.1.2). Atra śrīmad-bhāgavataṁ vāstava-vastu-vedyam, what is actual life. So we are struggling to give people what is actual life. Kṛṣṇa comes down to teach us what is actual life. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). When people become cats and dogs, dharmasya glāniḥ. Dharmasya glāniḥ means cats and dogs, because in the cats and dog society there is no question of dharma. They simply jump over and enjoy life. Eat, drink, be merry, enjoy eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Perfect does not mean that they should eat meat and drink wine. That does not mean. What is his objection?
Satsvarūpa: I think what it comes down to is that he objects that we are against illicit sex.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) That means he is accustomed.
Jagadīśa: These professors sit around, discuss topics of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and drink wine.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Satsvarūpa: And their discussion is very blasphemous. This Dr. Dimmock, he's made much investigation on the Six Gosvāmīs, and he's read all manuscripts, and he's always going to India and studying Rūpa Gosvāmī and Lord Caitanya, but everything is extremely blasphemous that he writes. So in both ways, in their habits and whatever they write. The Library Party men, they become friendly to these professors, but only to use them more or less, that they'll accept our books, despite themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we must do. (break) ...policy is when we go to a, what is called, a bad character, we don't go to associate with him, but to give him our association. Therefore we must be strong and very pure, so that your association, they will be benefited. For the preachers, īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu, the four behavior. Īśvara, tad-adhīneṣu, devotees, bāliśeṣu, innocent, and dviṣatsu, those who are envious. So a devotee, those who are preachers, they, prema, loving God, making friendship with devotee, and those who are innocent, to deliver. And those who are envious, reject.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, it is better, nice.
Kīrtanānanda: But it is a little dirty. Unless you change it to charcoal, there was always some smoke. This is not ours. Our property comes down this way, but not on this corner. (break) ...land, Prabhupāda, and they say overpopulation.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning, I protest against this assertion, there is overpopulation. I never admitted. Perhaps you know.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is no overpopulation. If the Americans allow the Chinese and the Indians to come, they can develop all these un.... "No, this is our land, you cannot come," immigration, gow gow. (break) ...creek is pure water?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, the water around here is very nice. We can dam it and have big lake.
Prabhupāda: If there is no foam that means it is nice water. Foam means sinful water.
Prabhupāda: If there is rock, if there is sand, then why don't you colonise there? What is their answer? If there is same sand, same rock there, then why not... (break) ...some money and can bring some sand and bluff people that you have gone to moon planet. And people are satisfied, they're paying for another excursion to the Mars. This is going on. If you have gone there, there is land. If you fly in the sky and if you get a land then you can stay there. And because you cannot stay there, you come back again. So their... The Māyāvādīs position is there, āruhya kṛcchreṇa param, they merge into the impersonal Brahman but there is no place to stay, they come down again to this material world. You may go many thousands and millions of miles in the sky but you want to stay somewhere. But if you cannot get any place to stay then again you come to this Moscow and New York. So our enquiry is that if you have gone there, then why don't you stay there? What is the answer? Hm? Kīrtanānanda Maharaj?
Kīrtanānanda: They say the atmosphere is not suitable.
Hari-śauri: Chewing the chewed.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and that is not being fulfilled. Therefore planning, sometimes this way, sometimes that way. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Mental concoction. Real platform they are missing. Sometimes sitting down, sometimes... (laughter) Happiness. When tired up, then come down. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).
Hari-śauri: They come out for a quiet sit-down in the countryside, and they bunch together, hundreds at a time.
Rūpānuga: They are coming to watch the fireworks. You see, from here, the fireworks are going to be very high in the sky. They can see it from this point. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...celebration, independence from our point of view?
Hari-śauri: From our point of view, it doesn't have any meaning. For a conditioned soul to think that he's independent...
Prabhupāda: It is foolishness.
Prabhupāda: You can make, by arrangement, artificial, cross-breeding.
Hari-śauri: But that cannot be counted as one of the 8,400,000 forms. I was thinking last night when we were coming down this road that it's very nice and smooth, but then I thought you were saying the other morning that in the heavenly planets they are made from coral and so many different things. Here we're using tarmac.
Prabhupāda: The more you go higher planetary system, the standard of living is many, many thousand times better than this. Many, many thousand times.
Rūpānuga: We can't even imagine it now.
Hari-śauri: What to speak of the spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: Just suppose here are stones, there are pearls. You cannot imagine.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that in previous ages when there was yajña taking place on this planet, sometimes the demigods would come down. So that means that is it possible that they would be communicating with the people of this planet?
Prabhupāda: Hm. They're speaking Sanskrit language. In all other planets they are speaking Sanskrit.
Hari-śauri: You also said they had the ability to make themselves visible or invisible to the population. Actually, they have many sightings of what they call UFO's, so-called spaceships and things like this, or things that they cannot explain but the government doesn't release the information because they think that people will panic. Sometimes aircraft pilots, they've reported that their aircrafts are being inspected while they're up in the air.
Prabhupāda: Inspection?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: First of all, we do not accept anyone as guru if he's not competent to understand Bhagavad-gītā and preach it also. He's not a guru. The guru's definition given in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), in the Fourth Chapter you'll find, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt.
- evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
- imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
- sa kāleneha mahatā
- yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
- (BG 4.2)
Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, this Bhagavad-gītā philosophy or yoga system, first of all I spoke to the sun-god. And then he spoke to his son, Manu. Then Manu spoke to his son Ikṣvāku." In this way the knowledge comes down from the spiritual master to the disciple or from the father to the son. So unless one comes in this disciplic succession, he cannot become guru. Therefore I do not know all of them. All the swamis and yogis who came here, they do not belong to this paramparā system, so therefore they are not bona fide guru. They are presenting themselves as guru, but they are not guru. Therefore people are misled. People are misled, and this is the first time that we presented India's traditional philosophy and life as it is understood by the paramparā system. Therefore it is being so well received. Vivekananda came here, as you said, 1893, before my birth. I was born in 1896. But they have worked for, say, eighty-five years. What they have done? But I have worked here for seven or eight years. And it is now worldwide movement. Why? Because we presented the things as they are. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Therefore it is effective. So if the things are presented as they are, the customers will automatically come.
Indian man: And that's why I try to show the difference to people, that "Please follow Prabhupāda's Gītā. And please make sure that when you read, you read Gītā As It Is." This is why I'm trying to show the differences to people. Personally there is only one question I have, and that is, throughout all the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams that you have translated so far, I see all the time any, like Kardama Muni or other, all other great sages, whenever they do tapasya, every time Mahā-Viṣṇu comes down. Now I know that throughout other, even Back to Godhead, you have considered Mahā-Viṣṇu as an expansion of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, yet Mahā-Viṣṇu is coming every time as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So what is the subtle position here?
Prabhupāda: There is no difference between... Just like... It has been explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like one candle, then you kindle another candle, then you kindle another, another, another, another. So you say, "This is first, this is second, this is third, this is fourth..." But so far candle power is concerned, they are all the same. Either you take first or the second or the third, so far the candle power is concerned, that is all the same. Still, you have to say, "This is first, this is second, that is third, this is fourth..."
Prabhupāda: They are all viṣṇu-tattva.
Indian man: In fact, I remember very vividly that in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you wrote that it was Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu who came down to bless Dhruva Mahārāja when the planetary system started trembling due to his tapasya here. Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. This is why people are questioning me continuously that "How can you call Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead and not Viṣṇu?" And I say "All are viṣṇu-tattva." But it is very difficult to explain to them the actual position of Kṛṣṇa, because only through chanting...
Prabhupāda: That is decided by Bhāgavatam, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), that tu, the name Kṛṣṇa, in the incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa is also included, but this Kṛṣṇa is the origin.
Hari-śauri: No stairs.
Prabhupāda: No, stairs, I may not come down.
Jayatīrtha: That's the problem. Once he's up, he can't come down.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayatīrtha: That means he can't go outside.
Prabhupāda: I.... Come down is not so very difficult.
Bhagavān: We have already a palanquin to carry you up.
Pṛthu-putra: We have elevator also, no?
Bhagavān: Yes, we have elevator there also.
Hari-śauri: Is it working?
Bhagavān: Well, it's being fixed right now, but if I.... But we have a palanquin to carry up the stairs. It's actually warm there, very warm during the day, and your room is extremely warm because the sun crosses it all day long, and there won't be anybody to bother you. All the devotees are out of the castle. They're all in little houses all around. And it's so big that you won't feel cramped.
Prabhupāda: So I shall feel hungry also?
Bhagavān: Hungry? No, you ate good there last year. You ate very well there last year.
Prabhupāda: No, I like it. It is very nice place.
Prabhupāda: Not a garden, but there was some vegetables.
Hari-śauri: Few plants.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not bad. For me, it was very convenient, come down immediately to my down storefront. And some boys were living in the storefront. There was a sink in the storefront, and for toilet I allowed them sometimes in my bathroom. Not some, only two or one. So he was washing my dishes also. In this way, I was living.
Hari-śauri: That was Mukunda, or...?
Prabhupāda: No, that was another boy. He was drunkard. (laughter)
Harikeśa: Yogeśvara has many pictures of those meetings at 26 Second Avenue, with Hayagrīva with the beard and the long hair hitting this... There's pictures of all those meetings, photographs. Of Hayagrīva with the beard and long hair hitting the gong next to you.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Long hairs almost everyone. This Umāpati was also one of them.
Prabhupāda: That is nice.
Bhagavān: Tomorrow we have the schedule of events. At nine o'clock we begin with the initiations, and we'll have the purification with water, and Pṛthu-putra Mahārāja is going to give the lecture on the ten offenses. Then everyone will come back in at ten o'clock and we'll have the bathing beginning then. And that, Jayatīrtha and I figured'd be about an hour. So we thought that perhaps towards the end of that, maybe around quarter to eleven, you'd like to come down and either participate in the bathing or give lecture at that time. And then afterwards the Deities will go back on the altar and we'll give the names outside. Is that all right?
Jayatīrtha: You don't have to come outside for giving the names.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Give him this garland
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is another admirer from Switzerland.
Hari-śauri: He can put it in some water, then it will blossom. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but that means cause after cause you have to find how the combination came. That is called philosophy. Go on searching out, searching out. Then you'll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). We say that kāma-haitukam, that desire is there in Kṛṣṇa. And therefore, you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that desire has come to you. We see Kṛṣṇa's dealing with gopīs, with Rādhārāṇī, exactly like young man, young woman. The kāma-haitukam is there. It is not fictitious. It has come down, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Kṛṣṇa says... The kāma also, you have to accept it, because Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. "Whatever you have got, that is from Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). You cannot say the kāma is independent. That's not fact. It is coming from Kṛṣṇa. (break) Ahaṁ sarvasya, sarvasya, you'll have take kāma also, everything, everything is coming. As Kṛṣṇa says everything, kāma is also coming from Him. In another place Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). It cannot be independent. The kāma-haitukam, the man and woman, lusty desire, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot finish the subject matter simply kāma-haitukam. Wherefrom this kāma came? Kṛṣṇa answers that. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. What is that? Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is situated in both the boy's and the girl's heart. So Kṛṣṇa is giving, "You wanted to enjoy, now here is opportunity, you take it." Then Kṛṣṇa becomes cause.
Prabhupāda: Up and down, now... Take it. When it goes up it does not come down, generally. So this is practical example. Two months ago you were purchasing two rupees—now two-eighty. So where is the value of the money?
Gargamuni: If we invest in books... Just like this little pamphlet I printed. It cost me fifty paisa. If we sell it in one month...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: Then we will get fifty paisa profit. We will double our investment.
Prabhupāda: That was nicely... That was nicely printed. So in this way invest our books or land. We don't want to keep cash.
Prabhupāda: So, wherefrom just now you are coming?
Prabhā Viṣṇu: Well, we've just come from Eastern coast. We came down from Calcutta through Visakhapatnam and Vijayawada. We took some orders in Guntur. And before that...
Prabhupāda: Guntur there is university?
Pradyumna: Yes, there's a new one.
Prabhupāda: Guntur, our Tīrtha Mahārāja has got a branch there. Is it not? Gauḍīya Maṭha they have got branch?
Prabhā Viṣṇu: In Visakhapatnam.
Prabhupāda: No, that is another. In Guntur, yes.
Mahāṁśa: So I'll tell them like that. Okay. Then the names and beads will be given downstairs by Your Grace? You'll be coming down? Prabhupāda: Yes. Hari-śauri: They should be wearing their neckbeads before. At least two lines. Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa will recognize your service. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). You are distributing this knowledge, so you become immediately recognized, very dear servant, very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. He says personally. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). "Amongst the human beings those who are doing this preaching, nobody is dearer than these persons to Me—anyone." You have read that? Prabhā Viṣṇu: That's in Eighteenth Chapter? Yes. Prabhupāda: To be quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa, this is the short-cut process. He never says those who are sitting in a secluded place meditating or chanting, doing nothing. He never says that "They are My very dear devotees." But those who are preaching-na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me (BG 18.69). Just like government takes more care for the soldiers, especially when there is fighting. They are giving life for the state. So their comfort-first consideration. In the warfield, enough supplies. Anything the soldiers require. Enough supplies.
Prabhupāda: Just see if he's coming actually. Otherwise...
Pradyumna: But as soon as we are ready you will come down?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Maṇihāra: Now England is finished. Everybody is completely unhappy. Nobody is happy in England. The rich men, once they were happy, now they are having their money taken away by the government. They are taxing, taxing, taxing, all the time. And the poor people, they have nothing anyway. Nobody has anything to talk about. Nothing to be proud of in England. Everybody is leaving. Every day in the newspaper you read such-and-such has happened.
Prabhupāda: You are Englishman?
Maṇihāra: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And I was talking with Professor Katovsky. I asked him please call for a taxi. So he said, "Swamiji, it is Moscow." That means taxis are not available. Then he came down with me and from the gate he showed me, "You take this shortcut when you go to your hotel." He could not call a taxi. Taxis are not available. He said, "Oh, it is Moscow."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But even the taxi drivers are very corrupt because of the shortage of taxis in Russia. You have to stand in line for taxis.
Prabhupāda: Not taxi, bus.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even for taxis they have no taxi stands where you stand in line. So the taxi driver, he will park his car a little bit away.
Prabhupāda: In my opinion it is a poor country. I think poorer than India.
Prabhupāda: There are birds who can take away the elephant for eating. Such big birds. They can carry elephant like a small rat.
Caraṇāravindam: Is such a bird the bird that was a servant of Sītā?
Prabhupāda: And monkey-eating birds I have seen in Los Angeles. They go very high on the top of a tree and capture a monkey. And take him high and drop him. As soon as he falls he dies, then again comes down and eats it.
Caraṇāravindam: We need one of those birds here to capture these monkeys.
Prabhupāda: There are so many wonderful creations. That is God's inconceivable energy. (end)
Prabhupāda: They are no good. Kalpana. They say, kalpana. Sādhakānāṁ gitarthaya(?) brahma-rūpa-kalpana. Rūpa-kalpana. But Kṛṣṇa's rūpa is not kalpana. It is fact. So kalpana is not faith, it is blind. Let me imagine some form of Kṛṣṇa. And therefore gradually, they come down to the position that any form you imagine as God, that is all right. They have come to this degradation.
Doctor: That you can, any form...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any form you imagine that he is God, that will give you success. They say like that.
Doctor: I think I have taken too much of time.
Prabhupāda: I am going there at six.
Indian man: That little knowledge I possess about Gītā starts with Third Chapter. With the knowledge made there, and Kṛṣṇa coming down to bhakti-yoga step by step, karma-yoga, and saying everything, "This is the supreme, this is the supreme, this is the supreme."
Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly you will find the so-called sannyāsīs, not bhaktas, they undergo severe austerities, penances, but after some time they come to the worldly atmosphere. Because they could not get any place, therefore they come down. Just like the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs they say that this duniyā, (world) jagat mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, you have left it, then why you come again to give some philanthropic service? If it is mithyā, then why you come again after so much? Is it not nonsense? If jagat is mithyā why you are coming again to this mithyā? That means you could not get place in the satya. Therefore you come down again. That is stated in the śāstra. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). Although with severe austerities and penances (he) might go to the paraṁ pada, patanty adhaḥ, anādṛta-yuṣmad, because he could not get shelter at the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, he falls down. He must fall down to the material activities. Patanty adhaḥ. That is adho patha. As soon as a person, after undergoing severe austerities, becomes very highly elevated in the sannyāsa stage, but if he cannot get shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then surely he shall fall down for these material activities, material enjoyment. That is the sign that he's fallen down.
Dr. Patel: You are exhibiting this body to be "I". Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is different.
Dr. Patel: You come down to body consciousness and talk to us. We want you to talk from higher consciousness.
Prabhupāda: I have no higher consciousness.
Dr. Patel: Then talk from the lower consciousness, still lower.
Prabhupāda: Why should I?
Dr. Patel: Let us go out and make a business in the stock market.
Prabhupāda: I am doing business. I am selling books. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: Stock action. Why not. It is very easy.
Prabhupāda: I am selling books.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Then, what other letters.
Jagadīśa: There's this conference which took place at Harvard, a symposium headed by Dr. Harvey Cox who is very important and a very famous theologian in America. Some of the things they said are very nice. Especially there's some quote from the Bible that gives it... This is actually stated by this Mr. Cox, or Dr. Cox, a very important man. He gives a quote from the Bible. "Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the sea and the great multitude from Galilee followed him. And many who had diseases pressed in upon him to touch him. And he went up into the hills and called to him those whom he desired and they came to him. And he appointed twelve to be with him and he sent them out to preach. And then he came to his home town and the crowd came together, so many of them that they could not even eat. And when his family heard about this they went out to seize him for they said, 'He is besides himself.' And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He is possessed by Beelzebub and by the Prince of Demons.' And Jesus said to them, 'If the house is divided against itself, that house will fall. It surely will not be able to stand.' And then his mother and his brothers came and standing outside the house where he was, they sent a message in to him calling him. And the crowd was sitting around him, and they said to him, 'Your mother and your brothers are outside and they are asking for you.' And Jesus replied, 'Who are my mother and my brothers?' And looking around on those who sat about him, he said, 'Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of God is my brother and my sister, and my mother."
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: Women, it is only possible in our Vaiṣṇava bhakti-yoga—women and men can be given equal right. There is no other system.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can wear a normal dress.
Hari-śauri: If they wear those big robes... Sometimes I see... It's a one-piece thing. It comes down to their ankles. If they wear something like that, it's all right.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they want to do something different. They want to see different things. If we give them a pajama and kurtā, we'll still make them do bhakti-yoga, but it's...
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga, chanting, dancing there will be. They can join.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but...
Prabhupāda: But they cannot practice. They cannot sit down like this, the women. They'll be tired. This is real practice.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This education is lacking throughout the whole world, and we have started this movement to give this education, and people are against. That means they have become so fallen that they cannot even take up right knowledge. The same proverb: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." So we have to struggle against this darkness, but we have to do it. This is our mission. We cannot stop it. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. People are kept in darkness, and... That is not Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Kṛṣṇa's mission actually. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "When people are misguided," tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, "at that time I come down." So the whole world is misguided on this bodily concept of life, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means Kṛṣṇa has come down in the shape of this movement. That is the real fact. Nāma-rūpe kṛṣṇa kali-kāle avatāra. "In the Kali-yuga Kṛṣṇa is incarnated in the form of His name, Hare Kṛṣṇa." Therefore in this age... That... Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). This is the injunction of the śāstras. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. Simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, mukta-saṅga, he becomes free from all this material contamination, and he paraṁ vrajet, he goes back home, back to... So this name is not different. Because Kṛṣṇa is absolute, there is no difference between His name and Himself.
Prabhupāda: Abroad. They got life. There was no temple. There was no hari-saṅkīrtana. Now they are feeling obliged. In London every Sunday all Indian community, they come. And during the Janmāṣṭamī, ten thousand people. Ten thousand people and the contribution was... What is? Twenty-five thousand pounds or...? One pound equal to twenty rupees.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fourteen rupees. Now it's fourteen rupees. It's coming down every day.
Prabhupāda: And they are giving... Practically our temple is going on by the contribution of the Indians. They are giving goods. Rice, dāl, and ghee and our... No scarcity.
CID Chief: The Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Deity(?) which is close to most of the Indians. It's a common...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes they ask that "What is your position, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, in India?" And in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone.
CID Chief: Because if you read from beginning, like the childhood, all His childhood plays and mischiefs and this from the birth, then childhood.
Prabhupāda: Every house. Even there are Muhammadan house, they observe Janmāṣṭamī. I know that. One professor in Allahabad, Kavi or something like... I went to his place. He's a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Mayaiva vihitaṁ devi kalau brāhmaṇa-mūrtinā. (break)
Dr. Patel: The most important group in all Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇava-bhakti-sat-saṅga anyathā yānti vido apy adhaḥ.(?) Even well-versed man will come down if he does not understand. All the branches of Vaiṣṇavism, they give the same comment.
Prabhupāda: Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Without sat-saṅga, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Gurudāsa: So that means they would spend at home instead of India for the benefit of themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No Englishmens were allowed to domicile in India. No. Strictly. But if... As soon as they make home, it will be America. The Americans made their home in America, so a war of independence was... They have experienced that, so did not allow the Englishmen to make India home. "You come here, work and take your payment. Can't come down."(?) This was the policy, Home Bill. And India's gold was kept in London. So gradually all the gold finished. Very, very crooked policy they followed. They... They... In Muhammadan period there was no such peaceful exploitation. These Muhammadans, they wanted to become lumma, kukum(?). Bas. That's all. They were satisfied. But their princely expenditure was done in India. When Shah Jahan constructed the Taj Mahal, heavy expenditure, but the payment was received by the Indians. And here a railway, very smart railway bridge is constructed that... The payment was paid in England. This was the policy. Every even screw, iron screw, was imported from England.
Pṛthu-putra: Because they are convinced already about this through the Koran. They already accept God is one, and He's possessing all fame, all beauty. But they say... The only point is that He cannot come down to the earth because the earth is a planet of sin.
Prabhupāda: No, that is your not perfect conception. If He is almighty and He's all-powerful, why you restrict Him?
Pṛthu-putra: They say, "No, He's not restricted. But when He has to reveal Himself He reveals to the prophet. This is the reason why Muhammad received the instruction from God."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. But you cannot say that He does not come to showing mercy to a prophet. He may come if He likes. That is mission. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). One who is actually devotee, prophet, he's always anxious to see what they (indistinct). So in order to favor them, (Sanskrit). What is their proposition?
Prabhupāda: Now, suppose Muhammad has heard God. He is prophet. So whatever he is speaking about his experience, you are accepting. Similarly, if somebody has seen Him, if he says that "God is like this," why you should not accept? In this way talk. God can be seen as God can be heard. You cannot say that God cannot be seen. Why?
Pṛthu-putra: No, what they say is that He Himself doesn't come down here. He can be seen, but He doesn't come down. That is their point.
Prabhupāda: That's his... He doesn't come down. He's already there. He does not come down. Just like the sun. The sun does not come down before me, but you can see him. In this way give them enlightenment. Sun doesn't require to come down, but sun is so bright and so prominent that you can see. Similarly, God doesn't require to come down. He's already present. Simply we have to make our eyes to see Him. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). When one is competent enough by developing his love for God, he can see always. God is visible everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's everywhere. So there is no difficulty to see. But simply one has to possess such purified eyes to see Him. Otherwise He can be seen anywhere. He can be seen within the atom even. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. That is God. He is present everywhere, but we must have the purified eyes to see, we must have the purified ears to hear Him. Otherwise God is everywhere.
Prabhupāda: But Wembley quarter is not good.
Jayatīrtha: No, that quarter is not so good. There may be other quarters where they'd do it, but...
Hṛdayānanda: New Dvārakā comes down to(?) San Francisco.
Prabhupāda: We can make another Ratha-yātrā from Bhaktivedanta Manor to Wembley and other places.
Jayatīrtha: Hm. Actually we were thinking to have... If we kept a small cart and had Ratha-yātrās, one in London, one in around Birmingham area, there's a lot of Hindus in that area that will come. One in the north around...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Expecting. Hope against hope. This is struggle. That they do not see. They do... We have got this valuable life. What we are doing? We are doing the same thing as the small ants do. So what is the difference between that life and this life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes that "This is not your business. Your business is to surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That will be solved automatically. But they don't. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it for solving these problems. Gandhi and Bhagavad-gītā—what is that? Political struggle. Such a rascal. And he's leader? He does not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Has Kṛṣṇa come down to speak how to defend, how to eat, how to sleep? Is there any statement there? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Solve this problem. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And who, nonsense, understands this? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9).
Indian Astronomer: Late, very. Because you won't find any reference to grahas in the Vedas. As a student of Vedas, I can guarantee that there is no reference to the grahas in the Vedas. Because nava-grahas are only important mantras, not they are (indistinct). So when because these things comes later on, Kalpa-sūtra, for those adopted the grahas and prepared the mantras from the Vedas for the grahas. So historically we must have come down. Now we'll find out in what date they are presented. Till now I was told all these things after only... I am also preaching Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: Now, where is the situation of the grahas in this planetary system? Whether sun is first or moon is first?
Indian Astronomer: Sun is first. Definitely sun is first because the moon is the reflection of sunshine. (quotes Sanskrit verse) Vedas say (Sanskrit).
Prabhupāda: Candrama has... Candrama has got his own light. It is not reflection.
Indian Astronomer: Not reflection. It has its own importance. But about the lights...
Prabhupāda: As sūrya is blazing, similarly, candrama is also blazing, but it is surrounded by cool cloud. Therefore it is so soothing. But it is above the sun planet, so far it is stated there.
Prabhupāda: All right, you do it. Don't delay. (break) Life is within the atom. Aṇḍāntara-stham. That life in due course of time, it comes out through the water. All of a sudden there is bubble coming down, coming down. That is the beginning of generation. What do you think, that? Jalajā. Kṣīṇe puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. They are elevated very high planetary system. Again, after reminiscing, they come down. That is described in the śāstra, fall down through rains. Again, like bubbles, come out. (break) Where? The bottom of the earth, giving life. That is already done. In favorable circumstances, due course of time, it comes out. (aside:) You keep. (break) Lots of money.
Prabhupāda: The rainfall. With the rainfall, those who are fallen souls, they are coming down. Then takes shelter within the atom. Then again grows.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's interesting that science says also that in the beginning there was only hydrogen. So actually water is... Its main composition of two parts of hydrogen...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One part of oxygen. So if the soul is coming through this water, through rain from higher planetary system...
Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. They elevate, again fall down. This is going on. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). But when they go to Kṛṣṇaloka, then they are... (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would that be considered more intelligent than the gross...
Prabhupāda: No. No. Because after all, you have to die. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. Again you have to come down.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to tell them that "We cannot completely negate the scientific advancement. We cannot simply say that what you are all doing is nonsense." At the same time, we can bring out that "Yes, you are doing, making an attempt to find a solution or comfortable situation. It's not possible," that "There must be something beyond. It's not enough."
Prabhupāda: And that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is the first citing. There are two kinds of occupational duty. The one is inferior, going down, and other is superior, go back to home.
Prabhupāda: Poor quarter. Still they are happy. The rats are jumping over your body.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu.
Prabhupāda: Yes, with one palace(?).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were telling me that there was one man who was living in a house. The roof was coming down, and it was raining, and he wouldn't leave. Some worker.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. It is a different type of civilization, to become sanctified and Kṛṣṇa conscious. Other things are not very important. If it is possible to rectify him, don't bother about this. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Increase this qualification.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We find that to increase fasting on Ekādaśī day makes that new (indistinct) come like anything.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: He cannot express what is his inconvenience, and he's feeling one inconvenience, and the mother is trying to make him happy in other way. He's crying more, more, more, more. Where is happiness? Within the womb there was unhappiness, packed-up. When he comes down there is unhappiness. Then go to school, take education, appear for examination—that is unhappiness. Then grow up, then engage in some earning money—that is unhappiness. Then maintain your children, and that is unhappiness. Where is happiness, rascals? Rascal. Both are suffering.
Prabhupāda: Publicity, if we find that this dress will attract more, why not? We shall do.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Salvation Army Santa Clauses, they became very upset, because their routine is that they stand next to a big chimney, because Santa Claus is supposed to come down a chimney in the myth. So they stand next to the chimney, and they shake their bell. People put money into this chimney. But our Santa Clauses, they go down the street very, you know, moving around, dancing, and they go up to the people all over the place. They don't wait for people to come over to the chimney. So we were taking away a lot of the donations that they would have given to the chimney Santa Clauses. So they were very...
Prabhupāda: That is business, competition. You are doing your business; I am doing my business. That competition is there in every business. When there is business, you cannot dictate me in your favor: "While you are doing this, my business is being hampered." Who will hear you? Hm? If you say it is competition, that "Why you are doing like this? It is hampering my business," I'll say, "Yes, I want that your business may be hampered; my business may prosper." That's it.
Prabhupāda: They are Communist group. Muslims are not so bad, but the Communists... They are... Communists are creating as Hindu-Muslim or like that, religious group. He has written something about Communists?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Since the Communists took power in West Bengal, the police are caring less for religious groups." Before, the police would always give religious groups protection. Now they don't care. I mean just see, they didn't come for two hours, and then they said, "Come down and file a complaint." And when we came down, immediately arrested. This same thing happened in New York. They told Ādi-keśava Mahārāja and the other boy, Trayī dāsa, "You come down to file some statement." As soon as they came down they said, "You're under arrest." Same trick. (break) ...infirmary and they come in and they... I never heard of that. Someone is in the infirmary being treated and they beat him worse. And the newspapers all report it the other way.
Prabhupāda: Because the government is Communist.
Haṁsadūta: No, we didn't hold it. I also came down with malaria, and the press, because of the intermittent trouble, they sort of lost the momentum. They didn't publicize it enough, so we just... But the public has got the idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That the guy's a phony.
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He must be very embarrassed, Kovoor.
Haṁsadūta: Well, the public has really relished the whole situation. But it seemed to me afterwards that this same technique could be applied in any university or anywhere where such a man is propagating this idea. As soon as you find one out, then make a public announcement that a program will be conducted, he's invited, and such-and-such amount of money would be offered if he can substantiate his idea of inert chemicals being the origin of life. Because I saw that the public interest became very keen, especially when they saw there was such a huge reward being offered to substantiate such a widely accepted, scientific idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a challenge to the, all these Nobel Prize-winner scientists. So our position is better.
Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think that just as you gradually decreased your eating and drinking and became very weak, so you should increase gradually, very carefully. Yesterday you drank barley water and grape juice, and you didn't come down with a cough. So if you increase just a little barley water and mung water, then after a few days thin milk, maybe some Complan, and then gradually increase the resistance...
Prabhupāda: So instead of water, barley water.
Prabhupāda: He wants to sell it. What does he want?
Jayapatākā: Right now he's asking... Actually right now he's more eager than ever to sell his land. The sādhu next to us, Praphulla Brahmacari, both of us, we met together, and we made a verbal agreement that we wouldn't give him any hope for purchasing his land at a high price. And as the result, now because of this incident... Before he had some hope that some outside person would come and buy land. But now the outside people, they don't want to purchase land at Māyāpur. So now he has no other hope than to sell either to us or to that brahmacārī. So now he's still asking four thousand. He's come from six to four. But it's even appearing that within a short time he may come down to three thousand.
Prabhupāda: So if he comes three thousand... How much land there is?
Jayapatākā: There's four bighās.
Prabhupāda: So purchase it. Do you follow?
Jayapatākā: Yes. That brahmacārī, he would purchase it also. If you wanted to have him purchase, he would purchase and give us a piece. He said he would give us a piece alongside the building as big as we want, and he would purchase the rest.
Prabhupāda: My idea is it is a land where we shall dig another pond. No building.
Prabhupāda: The... Kṛṣṇa has become everything. After Brahmā has stolen the original cowherds boys and cows and calves, Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself. So on account of Kṛṣṇa's expansion, the cowherdsmen got a special attraction. First of all they were angry. The cowherdsmen were on the top of the hill. They did not like to come down. But on account of Kṛṣṇa, the boys were very, very attracted, and they immediately come down with special affection. Is it explained?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: It will help? Eh?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So you can do that.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning they were angry that the cows were being attracted by the calves, but when they came down from up the hill, they were themselves attracted by their sons, and therefore they embraced.
Pradyumna: Śanaiḥ (kramaśaḥ)—slowly; kṛcchrāt (kaṣṭena)—with difficulty; apagatāḥ...
Prabhupāda: Śanaiḥ means "gradually."
Pradyumna: Gradually. They were old ones, old gopas. Apagatāḥ (āliṅganāghrāṇādi-vyāpārān-nivṛtāḥ).
Prabhupāda: These are the symptoms of affection, to embrace son and smell head.
Pradyumna: Tad anusmṛty udaśravaḥ (teṣāṁ sutānām anusmṛtyā anusmaraṇe udgacchanti aśrūṇi netra-jalāni yeṣāṁ te tādṛśāḥ jātāḥ). By the... Teṣāṁ sutānām anusmṛtyā anusmaraṇe.
Prabhupāda: So translate.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Pisimā's nephew)
Dr. Ghosh: He had his morning Complan?
Bhakti-caru: No, not as yet.
Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali) Pomegranate juice. Or Complan? Preparing. His pulse has definitely improved, and the swelling too. Come down. (break)
Bhavānanda: Now you're resting nicely? Not. (break) I think that you... (break) Because up until then you were taking some small amount of solid food. (end)
Prabhupāda: Where? Śrī Raṅgam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the man must be very... He's not so smārta. Because he will allow Westerners to live with him, he's favorable. So Smara-hari, one of the devotees here... We felt that if we do not find from Jalan or anyone a good kavirāja in Calcutta, then let us send two devotees to Śrī Raṅgam to meet with this head pūjārī and get his help for finding out a proper Rāmānuja kavirāja and bring him to Māyāpur. And immediately let us go to Māyāpur. Why should we sit here waiting here? Because actually we don't find any benefit from waiting here. The idea was to give change of climate, and what is the purpose of waiting for that to happen? Because we're not gaining anything by staying here except that the weather is becoming colder, so it becomes more and more dangerous to travel in cold weather. And as far as bringing a kavirāja goes, now we've already seen there's not going to be one in Vṛndāvana, so at best, we'd have to bring him from Delhi. But whether a man has to come from Delhi or come from Śrī Raṅgam, he's going to have to come and visit and stay with us. And once the treatment begins, if we get a Delhi kavirāja, he's going to have to keep coming down here. We don't want to have to stay here for more than one or two weeks. But the treatment is going to be longer than two weeks. So then we'll be stuck here. If we depend upon a Delhi kavirāja we'll be stuck here. Best thing is someone from Calcutta, because then they can come frequently to Māyāpur. But in the event that we cannot get someone from Calcutta, then we should take the help of one kavirāja from South India. And your dream was that it was a Rāmānuja kavirāja who was preparing the medicine. I think that after it's prepared he may administer the medicine for some time, but afterwards we can find another kavirāja. If he has to return to South, then another kavirāja may continue the treatment.
Prabhupāda: There is no treatment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will make a palanquin, special palanquin, you see, which will have a bed in it. It will be very nice. And it will have curtains. When you want, the curtains can come down or they can come up. And it will be full length, so you can recline very comfortably. And we will make a camp. We will go by foot all the way.
Prabhupāda: Very good idea. If I die then, it will be a great luck.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if you live it will be also great luck.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīvo vā māro vā.
Trivikrama: For us it will be greater luck if you live.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I want also. What is that?
Bhavānanda: He was trying... The... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...parikrama was liven to them.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There is good demand all over the world. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is not person; Kṛṣṇa is consciousness." (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa personally speaking, and "He is consciousness." He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "I come down." (Hindi) Māyāvādī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). (Hindi) Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am speaking to you the old yoga system." (Hindi) ...not my interpretation. (Hindi) (break) Kṛṣṇa is person. Where is that verse in the Tenth Canto?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12).
Bhakti-caru: Tenth Chapter.
Jayapatākā: Right now he's still asking four thousand rupees, but he seems to be weakening. But he hasn't come down yet in his price. He's not coming around so much because now they have to go regularly to the jail.
Bhavānanda: How often?
Jayapatākā: They were going once a day. Now it's once a week. So it's a big trouble for them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Including him?
Jayapatākā: Yes, he's one of them. He has to go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's one of the men who was...
Jayapatākā: Oh, yes.
Bhavānanda: He's one of the main instigators.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You should tell him that if he sells at 2000 rupees a bighā that we will not be so severe with him.
Jayapatākā: To say stuff like that is very dangerous. They use that, how to say that, in court.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa worked with this man. He was harassing us and now he is harassed.
Prabhupāda: Up to three thousand you can take. Four bighās.
Jayapatākā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And make a dighi.
Jayapatākā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So? Where did you go?
Lokanātha: I went to Mathurā. I went first to Vṛndāvana and looked for the carts. They were not very good kind. They were made for rough loads. So I went to Mathurā and spoke to one farmer. He had a fairly big size cart and two strong bullocks, and he asked for a hundred rupees. He wouldn't come down. So ultimately I agreed for a hundred rupees. And he will reach tonight at eleven o'clock. I asked him to start immediately, but they have pūjā—as we have go-pūjā, they also have oxen pūjā today—so he will only reach at eleven o'clock, and he will be with us all day long tomorrow. I had to give him one day or maximum...
Prabhupāda: So what do you think?
Lokanātha: Of what?
Prabhupāda: How many carts you have?
Lokanātha: I got just one today, one for you, and those who serve you, they could also sit besides you in the cart, and the rest could do kīrtana around the bullock cart, and the whole unit, bullock cart and saṅkīrtana group, will move together.
Prabhupāda: So what we have to pay?
Lokanātha: We'll pay hundred rupees, one day.
| Page Title: | Coming down (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 09 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=142, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 142 |