Catholic (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"catholic" |"catholicism" |"catholicity" |"catholics"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: The swami... Now did I understand you to say the swami has no sex life?

Prabhupāda: No, certainly not.

Interviewer: Certainly not. All right, now when you...

Prabhupāda: Well, actually sex life is allowed only to the householders. According to Vedic culture, sex life is restricted. There are four divisions of society. The brahmacārī is strictly forbidden for sex life. The vānaprastha, they are also forbidden for sex life, and the sannyāsī, they are also forbidden for sex life. So out of four divisions, three divisions are strictly forbidden for sex life. Only the householders they can have restricted sex life with married wife simply for begetting children. That is the Vedic culture.

Interviewer: Only for propagating children.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Interviewer: Then there is a similarity to Catholicism. The priest is supposed to be celibate.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Anywhere there is spiritual conception, sex life is not indulged. Anywhere, either it may be Christianity or Hinduism... Sex life is materialism. That is opposite number of spiritualism. So people are trained gradually to refrain from sex life. And in the sannyāsa life he's completely trained. Therefore he's allowed to move in the society for preaching spiritual education.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: It is not exactly the hierarchy, but in the Christian method, Roman Catholic method, the process of the Pope, Archbishop, and..., that is very nice. There is no objection of us. But our point is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is lacking. In spite of all arrangement, if people lost faith in God, so simply by hierarchy, what is the benefit there? There is no benefit. You see? Bambarambhe laghu-kriya, in the Sanskrit word, that you can make a very high-grade arrangement, but the result is zero. So that hierarchical arrangement is exactly not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But our method is very simple. If one is fortunate enough to meet a bona fide spiritual master and if he acts strictly under his discipline, he also becomes within a very short time another spiritual master.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Well, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm sure you know and I'm certainly aware that it's only recently that, for example, a Catholic couldn't even come in here because of some other church. That's changed.

Prabhupāda: Now I have written one letter to Pope. You have seen that? Where is that paper?

Hayagrīva: It's in here.

Journalist: Oh, a letter to the Pope. Did he answer it?

Prabhupāda: No, I have not received any answer. Is it in this paper? No, not in this paper. Where is the latest? Who is there? Ask to bring one latest. Bring one latest, yes. So we just that letter, but unfortunately, I have received no reply. How is that?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: In India everywhere. Kestha. So Kestha, Kristha or Kṛṣṇa, they're on the same group, aiming the same group. It is not difficult.

Allen Ginsberg: Of course, Catholicism in the West operated in Latin.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Allen Ginsberg: Catholicism in the West operated in Latin for centuries.

Prabhupāda: Latin is from Sanskrit. Yes. Latin is from Sanskrit. Professor Rowe and Webb of Presidency College in Calcutta, they have got a grammar. They have said the Sanskrit language is mother of all languages. They were big English scholar, professor, Mr. Rowe and Webb. We had to read their grammar in our childhood. They have said that Sanskrit language is the mother of all languages.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You told me in San Francisco. Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: So he heard two rounds of it. Okay. I have to take a plane today to a Catholic college in New York State. I'll be going back to New York at one o'clock, so I have to go back and pack and say good-bye to the students. It was a pleasure to see you here, lovely. So maybe we'll do it again in New York.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: I'll call. Thank you for your words and thank you for letting me join you.

Prabhupāda: My... You are already chanting. But if we do together, it will be very nice.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Yoko Ono: But you said about if the milk goes through a serpent's mouth it will produce poison, and, for instance, George just told us about a week ago a very interesting story about a man who had a face of Christ, and in twenty years' time he had a face of Judah. And the Catholic Church and all those churches first probably had good words, and now it's deteriorating. Now, how would you decide, really, that brāhmaṇas are always in a pure state that you speak of, that they would never turn into serpents?

Prabhupāda: That you have to become a serious student.

Yoko Ono: Well, I mean, what do you mean by serious student? Maybe everybody, all of us are serious anyway. I mean, we're born serious or born, you know, unserious.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Weir: Far more acceptable to every type of Christian than any of the specific creeds or sects, you know, the Church of England, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, every other form of prophecy. And you have that greater universality. (indistinct) And you've got Tibetans (who) will accept your places in the same way as a westerner could.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dr. Weir: A Tibetan could accept your position.

Prabhupāda: Tiberian? Tibetians? What is their philosophy?

Dr. Weir: You've heard of the Dalai Lama?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What does he say?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not Kali-yuga. This is the symptom of conditioned soul. It is very prominent now in this age. Conditioned soul means these four defects—to commit mistake, to become illusioned, to cheat others, and imperfectness of the senses. The scientists say that we do not know, that means imperfectness of sense. I am trying to see but the cloud is checking me, and I am considering beyond this cloud there is nothing. That is imperfectness of my seeing. Not... It is not a fact that beyond the cloud there is nothing. So these things are going on—cheating, illusion, mistake, and imperfect. And they are trying to come to a right conclusion. Just like somebody was telling that there is going to be a big conference of the Catholics to consider what wrong they have done. They can see that the people are rejecting the so-called Christian religion. So now they are thinking (indistinct). But it is also another cheating. They are deliberately violating the principles of Christian religion, and still they say, "What we have done?"

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayatīrtha: In the last six years in the Catholic church, 25,000 priests have left and taken up...

Prabhupāda: 25,000?

Jayatīrtha: 25,000 in six years.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jayatīrtha: Have left the Catholic church, priests.

Prabhupāda: Left.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: Have left the Catholic church, priests.

Prabhupāda: Left.

Jayatīrtha: Ordained priests, they have left and gone off to marry or whatever. Especially they are concerned that they can't marry. Catholic priests are not allowed to marry.

Prabhupāda: Marrying? They are marrying man to man ,what to speak of marrying. Sodomy.

Jayatīrtha: So that's the alternative. Either they're leaving or they're marrying man to man.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Guest (2): He is the director of the (indistinct) of Hindu and Buddhist religion, from Department of Religious Affairs. His duty is to maintain and look after the development of (indistinct) expecting that all people of Indonesia that has to follow any kind of religions (indistinct) Christians, because we have also in charge for the Christianity, we have also in charge for the Muslim, or Islam, and we have also in charge for the Catholic and we have also in charge for other...

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. This is very nice.

Guest (2): So because we have so many in the prosecuting of their religions, there might be, the people between many religions (indistinct). So the government have to lead the people how (indistinct), to supply also, in the (indistinct) of their materials for readings, and facilities for their, prosecuting their religions. This is the actual (indistinct) department.

Prabhupāda: So this is the idea which I was explaining that...

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I remember this in Pittsburgh last year Śrīla Prabhupāda, in that meeting with the bishops, there was a Christian father, a Catholic father. So the question raised that Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "Thou shalt not kill," in the Bible, in the Commandments.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was invited by some Christian priest in Melbourne, very good gathering. I said also the same thing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think his answer was "When the Bible was written, Christ didn't mean this way." That was his answer.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Oh, but he must fit it in.

Jesuit Priest: All the Catholic Universities all over the world are doing it. That's our main purpose, is to teach the young man and the young girl the success in this world, but above all,...

Prabhupāda: Then the next question...

Jesuit Priest: ...is the success in the next, which means union with God for eternity. That's top priority. And following Christ's words, "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God," then all the other things are of very minor importance. It's closeness to God and return to be one with the Beatific Vision in heaven. That's the top priority, that's our aim in education, and that's what Michael was taught when he was at Sunnyhurst. And that he does well and gets a degree, yes, very good thing. He could be a doctor or an architect or a leader in commerce, what have you, of which all of which are essential for the well-being of the world. This time last year I was dead. I was picked up as unconscious in the corridor, and the doctors said that I had experienced... I was as near death as makes no difference. Well, if it hadn't been for the skill of the man that...

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: Um-huh.

Jesuit Priest: In fact, I can say, by... I'm a Catholic priest, and by and large, I think our men, who are to, doing the translations are pretty, like, good chaps anyhow.

Revatīnandana: Hmh. So if, if the translators and the knowledge are adequate, then why is it, as Mrs. Christie just pointed out that so many young people are interested instead in false religious experience of LSD?

Jesuit Priest: Well, I wouldn't know. Because, I would say, because there's some kind of inadequacy in their lives. There's something missing, and that, the thing which is missing, is what we in the Catholic Church call the life of grace, the supernatural. Somehow, something's gone wrong somewhere. And so, they, lots of the young people today...

Prabhupāda: That, that I was trying to explain, that nobody can understand God and God's conception, being sinful.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: When I asked a group of priests at a meeting which was to celebrate the anniversary of a leading Catholic thinker, I.R. Shadder(?), I just asked him about the Sermon on the Mount, referring to similarities between the teachings of Sermon on the Mount and Hindu thought. He says, "You see, but the point is this, that the Sermon on the Mount is not meant for everybody. It is only meant for a very few. And therefore most of us, including the present company," he said, "cannot use it in everyday life." I said, "Do you mean it is only meant for monks?" He hesitated but said, "If you like, yes." But I said, "I imagined that this was meant for everyone and that anyone could follow it." And he said, "Well, it is too dangerous a teaching to give to everyone."

Prabhupāda: Just see. And therefore I say, "Cheater and cheated." Yes. Similarly, scientists also. Recently in Los Angeles, California University, one professor, a big scientist came. He's a Nobel Prize owner. He described, gave lecture. He has written one book, on which he has got Nobel Prize, Evolution of Chemicals. He wants to prove by chemical, combination of chemical, life has come into existence.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: And even you people you have to have people donate like we have the Catholic church...

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is...

Anna Conan Doyle: ...is to make from the people are working, we are dependent on the materialistic man also...

Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is that we are not satisfied with our living condition. Suppose I am, I have got this body. To maintain this body, I require my food, and for getting the food, I must have some money. I must have some occupation. This is one thing. But people are now... Suppose one thousand francs will provide his family, himself. He's not satisfied with one thousand francs. He wants ten thousand. That is the fault. Therefore he does not find time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Paramahaṁsa: The Protestant movement also, when they broke away from the Catholic church, the kings would protect the movement and fight to protect.

Prabhupāda: It is king's duty.

Ambassador: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: But we are... We are small people. We can only, we cannot go beyond the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I know.

Ambassador: But as individuals we'd be very happy to...

Prabhupāda: No, even if we approach higher authorities... Our men in New Delhi saw Indira Gandhi.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Acyutānanda: Yeah, they protest organized religion. Anything in the society, Catholic Church...,

Prabhupāda: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?

Acyutānanda: Yes, they say that animals have no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually Prabhupāda, I read in the Time Magazine that Indira Gandhi, she said to one reporter her birth control program has not become successful because in Kerala there are a lot of Catholics who are opposing this kind of process. In other words the Hindus are approving of it but the Catholics are rejecting it, it looks like, to some extent. She says that because the Catholics in Kerala, they are opposing the birth control program so she has got trouble like that. She is completely atheistic.

Prabhupāda: Unless she become atheist how you can stay in that post? She must be atheist. Or she may not be atheist, but for political reasons she must become atheist. Otherwise she cannot maintain her post. All these politicians, they are simply duplicity. Actually they are something else, but in political post they must show themselves as something else. This is politics.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Candanācārya: Yesterday I made the acquaintance of a theologist, a professor from the University of Montreal. He said that the Roman Catholic presentation of Christianity is that God came to share the suffering of man.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. Why God should share the sufferings of man?

Candanācārya: I asked him this, and he said, "So that man would accept more as reality, suffering."

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Just like the Catholic church, in different places around the world they feed the people.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Bali Mardana: But we cannot only... If we not only feed them, but give them chanting and dancing...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: ...they will accept it as superior.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bali Mardana: When I was in Hawaii I gave a lecture at one Catholic college, and the priest in charge, he was asking me if in our philosophy we believe that animals have a soul. He's so foolish...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: The Christians are so foolish, even though they have big learned positions, they do not understand that the animal also has a soul.

Prabhupāda: You told? In that meeting?

Bali Mardana: Yeah.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is our movement.

Dr. Patel: Your religion is extremely catholic.

Prabhupāda: Our catholic Kṛṣṇa consciousness—Kṛṣṇa says sarva-yoniṣu. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ: (BG 14.4) "Any form of life, that is, I am the seed-giving father."

Dr. Patel: That's right, sir.

Prabhupāda: And how lovingly they come to take little prasādam. I was thinking that...

Dr. Patel: I was noticing, myself, the same thing...

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Historic.

Dhanañjaya: Not historical, more philosophical. And he writes many papers for the Catholic Church, for the Vatican.

Prabhupāda: I was also student of philosophy in 1916 to 20 under professor Dr. W.S. Urquhart in Calcutta, Scottish Churches' College. He was my professor. Later on, he became vice chancellor, very big philosopher. We read Dr. Stephens Metaphysics. What is your special subject for study?

Richard Webster: Well, it's rather difficult to say. I suppose medieval philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Medieval.

Richard Webster: From a modern point of view.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Law cannot be different, but it can be modified according to the time and circumstances. But the law cannot be different.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Maybe you could ask specific examples of differences.

Richard Webster: Well, for Roman Catholics it is right to drink wine, for instance.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Drinking, intoxication.

Richard Webster: Not intoxication, to drink wine.

Atreya Ṛṣi: What is wine? He's saying that a Roman Catholic can take wine. The law allows them to take wine.

Richard Webster: Or tobacco or meat.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Or tobacco or meat. So the rules are different.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine. Can...

Richard Webster: And no Roman Catholic will admit that it is wrong to drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Wine is sanctioned?

Richard Webster: I don't mean to get drunk. I mean to...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine, for today's Roman Catholics, they think it is sanctioned.

Prabhupāda: They think so many other things also. Just like Roman Catholics, there is example: they have allowed marriage between man to man. Do you know that?

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well. I understand. But I only think that the dietetic rules would be perhaps an obstacle to the spreading... I mean certain rules which are clean against European or American custom might constitute an obstacle to the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I mean, in the Roman Catholic church you have the monks. Then you have the laity who observe less strict rules without being considered outside God. And you don't have that, do you? I mean, the Kṛṣṇa movement is a movement of what we should call monks or religious... There is no laity in the Roman Catholic Christian sense, people of the world who are doing messy things, I mean, trading the drugs or whatever it is because it's a job they have to do, but belong to the church without being strictly religious.

Prabhupāda: At least the church people, the priests, they must follow strictly the rules.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Cardinal Pignedoli: Yes. What I used to do when I am traveling... I travel a lot. I used to make friends among young people, generally teenagers. And then I choose also—I try to do this—people who are unbelievers, who are in difficulties, who are men of the weak faith, and who don't love, at least, they say they don't love God. Because I think that we are few men who love God, friends to God... We are not many. And we have to go and to look for these people, and for these areas or environments, where these peoples live. And it is for this reason that I say always when I am good friends, you know... Priests, Catholic priests, well, go to an area because here is too many. They don't need you here, but go to, well, I would say Stockholm or Copenhagen where there are a few really also, Christians, I mean Catholic or Protestants. We are all brothers. But they go there because there are very few people who are dedicated to God. What do you believe about this? I mean your society, your movement, your spiritual movement, is dedicated for this kind of people and for these areas, or not? I ask. It's not...

Prabhupāda: For all.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Watchtower. Yes.

Guru-gaurāṅga: They did a survey among the Catholic priests...

Prabhupāda: What is this? They do not fight. Why there is soldier? (laughter) What nonsense. Why there are soldiers? The neutral? 1939. This is Second World War. And First World War, 19...

Yogeśvara: (reading) "Dedicated to the soldiers of Geneva who died in the service of their country."

Prabhupāda: So that means it was attacked?

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?

Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, you said. Somebody said it is, Christ said...

Nitāi: That's in what they call the Lord's Prayer, which was given by Christ himself. All the Catholics say that daily.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Nitāi: The Catholics repeat that prayer daily.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Nitāi: The Lord's Prayer.

Prabhupāda: What is that prayer?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So use this. This is one of the business. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). We don't stop trade. We don't stop food, producing food grains. But we want to stop these killing houses. It is very, very sinful. Therefore in Europe, so many wars. Every ten years, fifteen years, there is a big war and wholesale slaughter of the whole human kind. And these rascals, they do not see it. The reaction must be there. You are killing innocent cows and animals. Nature will take revenge. Wait for that. As soon as the time is ripe, the nature will gather all these rascals, and club, slaughter them. Finished. They will fight amongst themselves, Protestant and Catholic, Russian and France, and France and Germany. This is going on. Why? This is the nature's law. Tit for tat. You have killed. Now you become killed. Amongst yourselves. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. And here, you'll create slaughterhouse, "Dum! dum!" and killed, be killed. You know. You showed me?

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You see. As soon as there is bell, the Roman Catholics began to kill the Protestants. So this is nature's law. You don't require to be sent to the slaughterhouse. You'll make your slaughterhouse at home. You'll kill your own child. Abortion. This is nature's law. What are these children being killed? They are these meat-eaters. They enjoyed. Now they are being killed by the mother. They do not know how nature is working. You must be killed. If you kill, you must be killed. That I've discussed in this now Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Where is Nitāi?

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: Catholic Renaissance Art, they glorified the dead body. Leonardo da Vinci, they glorified the body of man.

Prabhupāda: That is called bhūtejya. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as worshiping the material elements. That's all. Here in western countries, that is the prominent thing, bhūtejya. (pause) What is the other side? Lion? (pause, break) They cover with some cloth, some loose cloth. Is it not?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is French art, to make naked?

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says, for example, he can see the mass of people in Italy, they are Catholic. But that doesn't mean he's going to be impressed by the Catholic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to... He was comparing that the mass of people, they take to Ramakrishna. That I have proved. They're not, the mass of people, not at all interested... That I have proved. That is my answer. (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said he was not saying that thousands of people were following Ramakrishna...

Prabhupāda: What is the mass of people mean?

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: Previously they didn't allow divorce. The first principle was there is no question of divorce. Then so many people began leaving the Catholic Church. So then they allowed divorce. And then they did not allow abortion. So again so many people left the religion. Now they allow abortion. And now they are allowing man to man marriage.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Devotee: They compromise just to keep their followers.

Bhagavān: It's a matter of money.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Because the church could not help them in understanding God. The Christian church has no idea what is God. Therefore there is no name of God. Actually, they have no idea about God. Is there?

Devotee: I was raised up a very strict Catholic, going through Catholic school till I was fifteen years old, but I could not... They were trying to teach love of God, but I could not see that they were also loving God. Even the head priest, he was found having illicit sex relationships with one of the young nuns, and she became pregnant by that and he had to leave. They quietly sent him away without anybody knowing, but later on it came out.

Prabhupāda: That is going on everywhere.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, yes, thank you very much. I am Benedictine monk in a monastery.

Prabhupāda: You are Roman Catholic?

Pater Emmanuel: Yes, Roman Catholic. But I follow the eastern rite of the Greek Orthodox church. In our monastery you get the two rites, the Roman Catholic and also the customs of life... It's like the Greek Orthodox monks. We also have the rosary.

Prabhupāda: Like us.

Pater Emmanuel: Yes. And continue also, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me." Also I repeat, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me."

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: Will that means that Christianity has to change their customs or the Christianity, Roman Catholic or Protestant, must return to the source?

Prabhupāda: (aside) You can sit on the chair if you like.

Guest: No, I like to sit, thank you.

Prabhupāda: Not only Christianity, everywhere, the people now do not love God, but they love dog. Yes. Therefore this movement is required, awakening of God consciousness. Not the Christians, they are only to be accused, but Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They are simply stamp, but no obedience to God. This is the position.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: They have recognized, bona fide religious sect. (pause) So the priestly order this morning, they liked it very much.

Devotee: I think so, yes.

Prabhupāda: This gentleman, he's also a priestly...

Satsvarūpa: At seven-thirty the Catholic bishop is coming, very high-ranking in the church.

Prabhupāda: What is the time now?

Satsvarūpa: Ten after six, quarter after six.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Bishop Kelly: Oh, yes. Your Grace, there is one thing I wish to ask you. Do you believe in some sort of universal but inherent deficiency in human nature, in other words, that man irrespective of his environment, irrespective of where he comes from, that he has, he is prone to evil? In the Catholic church we call that original sin. Original sin is an inherited deficiency in which man is turned away from God rather than turned towards God, and that he holds within himself a seed of failure in..., spiritually, and also a seed of unreliability so that the very makeup of man demands the enlightening touch and the helping hand of God so that he may overcome his inherent and abiding deficiency. So we hold that that is the nature of things, that man... It's not just a good thing or an advisable thing that man reaches out to and for God, but it is a necessary thing, that God not merely is there to improve upon what you might say would be a natural goodness of man, but man has a natural deficiency he needs God to overcome. And as he overcomes, of course, he progresses further and he is enriched by God. But we hold that very clearly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in one of the Vedic literature, that:

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: The Catholic Church is a very wealthy institution, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bahulāśva: The Catholic Church is very wealthy. They don't want to lose their...

Prabhupāda: So what will wealth do? If it does not appeal to the people, what wealth will do? In Chicago also, the Christians came with some wooden signboard. You have seen?

Bali Mardana: No, I didn't see.

Prabhupāda: "It is through Christ. It is through..." They were showing me. So that has been criticized by the newspapermen, that "Nobody cares for you." (laughter) Yes.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's more or less saying that in the Catholic church how they also demand the same type of faith. He said they all have a bad experience with that. And then he more or less...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I can understand. The thing is that everyone can take advantage of this statement that "I am perfect." Just like so many rogues and bogus persons come. But it is your duty to know whether he is perfect. It is your duty to test whether he is perfect. That requires intelligence. If you unintelligently accept some bogus person as perfect, that is your fault. You must be assured that "The person from whom I am asking, he is perfect." Then you take it. Otherwise don't take.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...so eager to go into the fighting place... But still, they... That the... What this? Red Cross. They go in same spirit.

Haṁsadūta: In Ireland, the devotees go there. The Catholics and the Protestants are always fighting. But everybody likes the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Both sides.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: They have, they... As soon as they come on the scene, they begin to become jolly.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take advantage of this?

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Recently we have shown the film and spoken in several Catholic schools in Melbourne. They have comparative religion classes, and they ask us to come to their high schools to teach comparative religion so the students can see what other religions think. Usually they...

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. All bogus. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo. Only religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.

Amogha: They think that if they sin it's all right, because man is imperfect. So they think we should believe in Jesus.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They seem to like everything about our philosophy, except when we explain very clearly that everyone is sinning and under the control of lust and that we must become free from lust. Then they become disturbed because they don't know how to do this, and they want to disclaim it. Just when I was saying that in one class, they all understood very clearly by examples that we are all controlled by our senses, and this microphone speaker came on for all classes, interrupting my speech, and a voice announced in the Catholic school, "Would all the students whose parents purchased tickets for the wine-tasting festival tonight please report to the office," and they all began to laugh because they were embarrassed, because they could see that actually they were engaged in sinful activities. They are also very amazed when they see your books. Sometimes we take ten or fifteen books-Bhagavad-gītā, and ten Śrīmad Bhāgavatams, Caitanya-caritāmṛta—and we line them all across the front wall or desk, maybe fifteen books. And I begin by saying, "I'm sorry there's only a few minutes to talk, because our Bible is very big," and then I explain, "This is Bhagavad-gītā, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam's sixty volumes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-twelve volumes." And they become very much amazed that this is our..., beginning of our Bible. (break) What can we say to Communists to attract them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also. Why don't you allow them to eat? That is you defect.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: As they become more interested they ask automatically how they can make advancement.

Prabhupāda: If they understand that "I am spirit soul" then he'll advance. Then you can say. The chanting is required.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: And prasādam.

Amogha: Everyone likes prasādam. In these high schools we take maṅgala āratika burfi and they love it. Sometimes the Catholic sisters and nuns come up afterwards and say, "How do you make this? What is the recipe?"

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Another thing they do in the churches is they have those bingo games. You were saying in one lecture we shouldn't play bingo. That's very popular. Practically all of the Catholic... Is that Catholic churches?

Gaṇeśa: All Christian. Jesus himself, he kicked the moneylenders out of the temple.

Amogha: I was talking to one Buddhist monk, and I asked him, "What is your actual practice? What is your daily schedule?" And he said, "Well, we get up around sunrise and go out with our begging bowls and fill it up and then come back at about 11:00 to the temple. And then we sit down and eat everything in the begging bowl. And then we take rest." I said, "What about the rest of the day?" And he said, "Well, that's all free, open time."

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are distributing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you explain that it's best to start from the beginning and go gradually. So...

Prabhupāda: No, anywhere you can see.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: A delightful idea, a beautiful idea, and a very simple-sounding idea. How about, however, the Anglicans, the Roman Catholics, who are bound in this...

Prabhupāda: No, what is the... No, Roman Catholics... We don't say that Roman Catholics cannot perform yajña. We say that you chant the holy name of God. So Roman Catholics they have God or not, no God?

Justin Murphy: Well, they think they do a lot of that on a Sunday morning.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, any religious system... Religious system means connection with God. Is it not?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So we are asking, "Chant the holy name of God." So if you are Roman Catholic...

Justin Murphy: Any man's God.

Prabhupāda: Any man's God. God is one. God cannot be two. But we are thinking...

Justin Murphy: Roman Catholics don't agree with you on that, do they? Roman Catholics have their own God.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is simple. It is simple.

Justin Murphy: The Roman Catholics are a jealous people. Roman Catholics are jealous religious people. They refuse even still to accept, for example, that Anglicans pray in the same way as they do. They refuse to accept that Anglicans pray as well as they do.

Prabhupāda: No, one thing is that may be Anglican, may be Roman Catholics, may be Christian, may be Hindu or Muslim or anyone. Whether they have God in their conception of religion or not. Do they have God or no God?

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): God created the earth, in the Bible. God started on a Monday. He created the earth. It says in the Bible in the Old Testament that it took Him seven days, or six days, and on the seventh day He rested. But still there is some dispute whether He started on a Sunday or a Monday. So the Jewish, the Hebrews, they hold the Sabbath on a Saturday, and the Christians and the Catholics they have the Sabbath on the Sunday. But on the seventh day God rested after creating the heavens and the earths.

Śrutakīrti: It was always very bad to engage in any type of work on the Sabbath day. It was used only to glorify the Lord.

Paramahaṁsa: For fishing.

Amogha: Not any more. Now the post office is closed on Saturday and open all day on Sunday in Perth.

Prabhupāda: They have changed?

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Just see, foolishness. But at least somewhere there is no equal right in the lavatory. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greeting someone) I have received your letter, you can see me. (break) (Conversation continues in the car) This too much intermingling of woman means the path of hell. Therefore the restriction is that only the married couple can freely mix, not others. Mahat-sevāṁ dvār... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They are not interested associating with devotees. They are interested associating with man or woman, that's all. Woman is interested to associate with man, and man is interested to associate with woman. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Therefore the civilization is becoming hellish. It is already said in the śāstra. One should associate with spiritually advanced men, but that is not being done. Now the woman is hankering after man, man is hankering after woman. Yoṣit saṅg... Yoṣit means for sense gratification. Tamo-dvāram. This is the path of darkness.

Just like the priest was saying, "Oh, sex is very nice. Why you stop?" Just see. And he is a priest. Why the Roman Catholics they are ordered not to marry? Why? Roman Catholic are supposed... the fathers and priests, they should remain unmarried, is it not?

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest 1: And they had a lot of difficulty. This is one of the things that I imagine, you know, the story that the Catholic Church, Roman Catholic Church owned this property. And it was almost by devious means that it was acquired.

Prabhupāda: They did not want to give us?

Guest 1: He didn't want to sell direct, like that. Because that beautiful building across there, I think you saw photos...

Amogha: The convent. Śrīla Prabhupāda went through the convent.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Brahmānanda: He offered that. He said, "All the other religions, they have their... We have certain plots for them, and there is a church for Catholic, a church for Protestant, a church for Bahai."

Prabhupāda: No, no, take anywhere they give land. Yes. That will be recognition. We don't mind for the land, but the government has given land means recognized. That is wanted.

Brahmānanda: Oh yes, yes. (break) One of the African devotees was explaining to the vice-president that verse, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Occupying the churches?

Jayatīrtha: The Catholic churches.

Brahmānanda: They go on strike. They go there and they won't go out.

Prabhupāda: That is called Gandhi's policy.

Brahmānanda: Yes, gherao, or something like that.

Prabhupāda: It is called satyagraha.

Jayatīrtha: They are trying to get the Catholic church to support their demands.

Prabhupāda: That means Catholic church is supposed to support these prostitutes?

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda wants to hear one of them, though. What does the Catholic theology say about God? Thomas Aquinas?

Dr. Judah: Well, I'm not too good at interpreting the Catholic theology. But they would, the Catholic theology would say that God is the father, that there is the son who was born who is the son of God, and...

Prabhupāda: Now, God has got son. That is all right, but what do you mean by God? Everyone has got son, but that does not mean everyone is God. What is the definition of God? You have got son. I have got son. So God has got son. That does not mean He is God. Everyone has got son.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, you see, the Roman Catholics, if we were to consider this then again, would say that the son of God is one with God and the Holy Spirit as the Trinity...

Prabhupāda: And again, the description of the son.

Dr. Judah: Yes, the three are one.

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but who is God? What is the definition of God? Just like king. We can describe, "King means who has got a big kingdom, a large tract of land. He is ruling over it," some description. So what is the definition of God in that...?

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Of course, in Christianity, which many of the Christians, I feel, are not following as closely as they should and have in the past, there is the idea, for example, in the Roman Catholic church, for example, at the time of the Mass, of experiencing the presence of God and there have been Christian mystics who have felt that they have experienced God. For example, St. Theresa, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, and various ones.

Prabhupāda: So they must give description of God. If you have seen this rose flower, then you can give a description. If you cannot give a description, then how you have seen rose flower?

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Being taught that they are the body. I went to a Catholic university and they taught me in psychology, and it was a priest. And they were teaching this, that I am a bodily process. And he never challenged the textbook. So when one thinks he's the body and if he's intelligent, a very depressing thought. Even in the Catholic universities they use these textbooks that teach this materialism.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some Catholic priest said that better to let her die, because this is God's way.

Prabhupāda: Then he has to accept the God's way and give up the machine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But in a situation like that, isn't it more valuable to preserve human life because there's the chance...

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a chance that somehow or another, they might be...

Prabhupāda: Why should you take the chance? You are perplexed with overpopulation. And why you want to stay? One side, you are perplexed with overpopulation. Let him die.