CC Adi-lila 08.015 sri-krsna-caitanya-daya karaha vicara... cited

Expressions researched:
"If you are indeed interested in logic and argument" |"sri-krsna-caitanya-daya karaha vicara" |"vicara karite citte pabe camatkara"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "adi 8.15" or "If you are indeed interested in logic and argument" or "sri-krsna-caitanya-daya karaha vicara" or "vicara karite citte pabe camatkara"

CC Adi-lila

CC Adi 8.15, Translation and Purport:

If you are indeed interested in logic and argument, kindly apply it to the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If you do so, you will find it to be strikingly wonderful.

Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura comments in this connection that people in general, in their narrow-minded conception of life, create many different types of humanitarian activities, but the humanitarian activities inaugurated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu are different. For logicians who want to accept only that which is proven through logic and argument, it is a fact that without logic and reason there can be no question of accepting the Absolute Truth. Unfortunately, when such logicians take to this path without the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they remain on the platform of logic and argument and do not advance in spiritual life. However, if one is intelligent enough to apply his arguments and logic to the subtle understanding of the fundamental spiritual substance, he will be able to know that a poor fund of knowledge established on the basis of material logic cannot help one understand the Absolute Truth, which is beyond the reach of imperfect senses. The Mahābhārata therefore says, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. (Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma-parva 5.22) How can that which is beyond the imagination or sensory speculation of mundane creatures be approached simply by logic? Logic and argument are very poor in spiritual strength and always imperfect when applied to spiritual understanding. By putting forward mundane logic one frequently comes to the wrong conclusion regarding the Absolute Truth, and as a result of such a conclusion one may fall down to accept a body like that of a jackal.

Despite all this, those who are actually inquisitive to understand the philosophy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu through logic and argument are welcome. Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī addresses them, "Please put Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy to your crucial test, and if you are actually a logician you will come to the right conclusion that there is no personality more merciful than Lord Caitanya." Let the logicians compare all the results of other humanitarian work with the merciful activities of Lord Caitanya. If their judgment is impartial, they will understand that no other humanitarian activities can surpass those of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Everyone is engaged in humanitarian activities on the basis of the body, but from the Bhagavad-gītā (2.18) we understand, anta-vanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ: "The material body is ultimately subject to destruction, whereas the spiritual soul is eternal." Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philanthropic activities are performed in connection with the eternal soul. However one tries to benefit the body, it will be destroyed, and one will have to accept another body according to his present activities. If one does not, therefore, understand this science of transmigration but considers the body to be all in all, his intelligence is not very advanced. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, without neglecting the necessities of the body, imparted spiritual advancement to purify the existential condition of humanity. Therefore if a logician makes his judgment impartially, he will surely find that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the mahā-vadānyāvatāra, the most magnanimous incarnation. He is even more magnanimous than Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself. Lord Kṛṣṇa demanded that one surrender unto Him, but He did not distribute love of Godhead as magnanimously as Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Therefore Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī offers Lord Caitanya his respectful obeisances with the words namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te/ kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmne gaura-tviṣe namaḥ (CC Madhya 19.53). Lord Kṛṣṇa simply gave the Bhagavad-gītā, by which one can understand Lord Kṛṣṇa as He is, but Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is also Kṛṣṇa Himself, gave people love of Kṛṣṇa without discrimination.

CC Adi 8.20, Translation and Purport:

Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has freely given this love of Kṛṣṇa everywhere and anywhere, even to the most fallen, such as Jagāi and Mādhāi. What then to speak of those who are already pious and elevated?

The distinction between Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift to human society and the gifts of others is that whereas so-called philanthropic and humanitarian workers have given some relief to human society as far as the body is concerned, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu offers the best facilities for going back home, back to Godhead, with love of Godhead. If one seriously makes a comparative study of the two gifts, certainly if he is at all sober he will give the greatest credit to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It was with this purpose that Kavirāja Gosvāmī said:

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra

vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra

"If you are indeed interested in logic and argument, kindly apply it to the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. If you do so, you will find it to be strikingly wonderful." (CC Adi 8.15)

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Lecture on BG 1.28-29 -- London, July 22, 1973:

So the preaching process is to take a straw in the mouth, dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya, and falling down on your feet, dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor, kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca ahaṁ bravīmi. And flattering you: "Sir, you are so great man, you are so intelligent man." This is flattering. Although he is fool number one, we have to flatter like that. "Oh, there is no greater man like you. You are so intelligent, you are so rich, you are so beautiful." So all these things. Just like the beggars. Sometimes: "You become king." And one thinks, "Oh, he is blessing me. All right, you take one paisa." So this flattering is also required. So kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi. So the man may ask that "Why you are so humble and flattering? What is your intention? Tell me." So he is now telling. He sādhavaḥ, "Oh, you are great sādhu." He sādhavaḥ, sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt: "You have learned so many nice things. I know that. But kick them out, please." Sakalam eva. "Whatever you have nonsense learned, rascaldom you have learned, please kick them out. This is my request." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. "Just hear what Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. This is my request." This is preaching. This is preaching. Flatter, fall down on his feet, and eulogize him as great sādhu, as great intelligent, great rich. Do so that he may little hear. And when he says, "What do you want?" "Now, (laughter) I want this, sir. Whatever rascaldom you have learned, please forget. Because I know you are rascal number one. (laughter) You have got so many hodge-podge thing in your brain. So you kick them out please." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt. "Kick them, throw away, long distance. Don't look upon them." "Then what to do?" Caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. "Please hear what Caitanya-candra says." śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra: (CC Adi 8.15) "Just try to understand the mercy of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and you will feel so sublime." Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra (CC Adi 8.15). "Don't take it blindly. If you are intelligent, just make a judgment, what Caitanya-candra is." Tell him.

Lecture on BG 7.1 -- Madras, February 14, 1972:

So unfortunately, God is canvassing Himself personally, and still we are unaware of Him. Why? Because there is one verse which you will see in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya-caritāmṛta... Here two honorable Justices are present, and I can recite that verse. It is in Bengali. It is said that caitanya-dayā katha karaha vicāra. The author is placing the quantity of mercy as given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to the judgment of the public. Caitanya-dayā katha karaha vicāra. It is not something we have accepted blindly as faith. No. It is a fact. It is a science. It is an authority. Therefore we place before the Justices for judgment, caitanya-dayā katha karaha vicāra vicāra karite citte pābe camatkāra. If you wait for the judgment, then when you hear the judgment you will find, ah, a great ecstasy you will enjoy. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you kindly try to understand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement with cool head, I mean, I mean to say right judgment, you will find ecstasy.

Lecture on BG 7.1-3 -- Ahmedabad, December 14, 1972:

Siddhānta, conclusive, conclusive understanding. You should try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, our life becomes perfect. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... (BG 4.9). We can become liberated. Therefore Caitanya, yes, Kavirāja Gosvāmī recommends that "Try to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth." And another place it is said,

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra

vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra

(CC Adi 8.15)

It is not blindly accepted, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. With considerable deliberation, we take the decision. All the ācāryas, they have taken decision. Therefore in the next verse Kṛṣṇa says, jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam. This knowledge, with practical understanding, sa-vijñānam. Vijñānam means practical application. We understand Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. He's the creator of this cosmic manifestation. He's the Supreme. We are all subordinate. This is jñānam. And sa-vijñānam, when it is practically applied, that means when you take to devotional service, then it is practically application, practicing.

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

Lecture on SB 2.3.20-21 -- Los Angeles, June 17, 1972:

Caitanya dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. The exact language is there. That Caitanya-caritāmṛta writer, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, says that "You put your logic about the mercy of Lord Caitanya. I request you, you consider. Don't accept it blindly." Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. "But if you intelligently deliberate on the mercy of Caitanya Mahāprabhu,"

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra

vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra

(CC Adi 8.15)

"you'll feel wonderful. If you accept it by systematic deliberation about the mercy of Lord Caitanya, then you'll feel that it is wonderful." So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a, I mean to say, force, that we are pushing something forcibly to anyone. There is complete judgement. But unfortunately, if one cannot understand, that is not our fault. One must have the intelligence to understand. Otherwise, logically, philosophically, it is perfect. Go on.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: So we are simply trying to revive people's dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So every sane man, every good government, everyone should come forward to help this movement. It is not a personal affair. We are not presenting that "I am avatāra, I am God." We are presenting science, philosophy. You see? Why we are taking so much trouble to write so many books? If we... We want to convince people through science, philosophy, logic, religious principle, by practical behavior. All these boys are being trained up not to have any illicit sex, not to eat meat, and not to take any intoxication up to tea, coffee, cigarette and not to indulge in gambling. They're doing that. So we are making men of character, men of religion, men of philosophy. Why people should not cooperate with us? We are not presenting any blind, so-called religious faith. No. That is not our business. Our business is śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. You understand little Bengali? You understand Hindi.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda:

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra

vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra

(CC Adi 8.15)

If you are sane man, if you give due consideration, and then give your judgement, then you'll find that it is wonderful. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra. We don't say that you take it blindly. No. Vicāra. After full logic, and consideration, you accept, not blindly. But if you do that, you'll see it is wonderful. It is wonder... So why those who are advanced in education, they should not take this movement seriously and try to understand seriously and cooperate with us? It is not a blind thing. So... Actually, from government level, we are not getting any support. Not... I don't speak in India. Anywhere.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Oh, yes. The manager of the hall was pleading with us to ask them to leave. He wanted to go home. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that's very good that so many stayed to find out more information, to ask, to discuss.

Prabhupāda: Yes, any reasonable man will find subject matter interesting. There is a statement of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra: (CC Adi 8.15) "Just consider and then give your judgement after studying the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu." It is never recommended to take it blindly. Karaha vicāra: "Just judge with reason and argument." And vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra: "If you consider it with logic and judgement, then you'll find it is sublime." (French)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra; (CC Adi 8.15) "Just see what kind of merciful is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and if you consider it perfectly, you'll see it it wonderful." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. "Oh, here is Caitanya." Caitanya. Caitanya means living force. He says, vicāra, "Just try to understand by logic, by philosophy, by argument." That is vicāra. We are not following Caitanya Mahāprabhu blindly. That is not our position. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna argued with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. At last, he accepted, "Yes." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram: (BG 10.12) "You are the Supreme Person. The rascals, they do not understand Your personality, but Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, they have accepted, and I also see. Therefore, whatever you say, I agree. That's all" This is experiment. Arjuna did not accept Kṛṣṇa blindly. He knew, but for our sake he gave so many arguments. At last, he accepted. We have to follow Arjuna. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. (break)

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You accept or deny, it doesn't matter; you must be an old man. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it. "Never mind what body I am going to get next. It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy this body." This is animal civilization. The dog, at night barking, jumping, he is not able to understand, what is next life, what is rebirth, what is his... He cannot understand. But a human being can understand. So if he is put into the darkness, then what is the difference between animal and human being? So this is the problem. So we are trying (in) our humble way to give this knowledge to the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And our request to everyone is that "You try to understand the philosophy and cooperate." There is a line in Caitanya-caritāmṛta,

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra

vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra

(CC Adi 8.15)

It is not to be accepted blindly. (break) So you are in Russia, educated young man. You can do something. Everyone can do something.

1975 Correspondence

Letter to Bon Maharaja -- Los Angeles 24 July, 1975:

Regarding the library building, I am only interested in Caitanya philosophy. As it is stated in the Caitanya Caritamrta, "sri krsna caitanya daya karaha vicara/ vicara karile citte pabe camatkare." If you are indeed interested in logic and argument, kindly apply it to the mercy of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. If you do so, you will find it to be strikingly wonderful. (Cc. Ādi lila 8.15) But, in the library other books may be kept for comparative study by the scholars. I have no objection, but our main purpose will be to accelerate the grandeur of Caitanya philosophy. On this basis I have full cooperation. Besides that I have got about a half a dozen students who are Ph.Ds in different subjects, but they are all expert in Caitanya philosophy. If you so desire, their service can be utilized in this connection. If we fully cooperate on this Institution plan, I can attract students from all over the world such as America, Europe, Canada, Australia and the Middle East. In all these places we have got our centers and there are many students.

So when I arrive in Vrindaban we shall discuss these things in detail, and if possible we can take up the library program at that time. In the meantime if you decide to give us the land in front of our temple we can immediately begin the construction.