Prabhupāda: Automatically. (sic:) Parāsya bhaktir vividhaiva śruyate svabhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Svabhāva..., you can.... Just like if you ask me how to do something, if I say, "Yes, you do like this," svabhāvikī. I have got by nature knowledge how to do it perfectly. That is going on. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Kṛṣṇa is dictating that "You do like this." So, you see, everything is coming perfect. From the nim seed a nim tree will come. It is so nicely made by Kṛṣṇa-bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10)—that it will come nim tree, not mango tree. The chemicals are so combined. You do not know what is there, a small seed, baṭa vṛkṣa. And a huge banyan tree will come out, not other tree. That is knowledge. He has given the whole, I mean to say, operation in a small seed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. There is no mistake. You simply take it and cultivate.
By nature... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: After all, understanding... Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually... Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31). Rascal does not know that he is hand and bound..., hand and leg, bound up by the laws of material; still he denies, that "I am independent. I can think independently. I can avoid God," and so many things. Therefore they are mūḍhas. He cannot do it. In every inch he is bound up, and still he is thinking, "independent." That is the first-class mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). Every... Dark, darkness. He keeps himself in darkness. This life was given to him by nature to become liberated by understanding God, but he does not take care of.
Prabhupāda: Apples and that strawberry. In Russia, I have seen only strawberry. That's all. No fruit..., no other fruit. Fruit means strawberry. These rascals do not see that they are being punished by nature.
Hari-śauri: Their idea is that the more the struggle goes on, the better, the more glorified, they are.
Prabhupāda: And therefore it is called "ass." (laughter) Ass works very hard, and he thinks, "I am glorified." Mūḍha. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Ugra-karma.
Kīrtirāja: I have seen driving from Germany that even sometimes they don't have an animal ass. They become the ass, and they are carrying the big load on their back, almost on four legs. It is so heavy. (end)
Prabhupāda: That you cannot change, natural development. You rascal, why you become leader? I don't require your leadership if everything is going on by nature.
Madhudviṣa: No, it requires a guide.
Prabhupāda: No, because you are rascal, you are under nature. So how you can guide me? Your position is the same. You are blind; I am blind. How you can lead me?
Madhudviṣa: They won't say that.
Prabhupāda: So they won't say means...
Madhudviṣa: They say that...
Prabhupāda: Why shall I accept a blind leader? If a blind... I am blind, and if a blind man says, "Come on, I shall guide you," why shall I accept that leader?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Here we live happily."
Prabhupāda: That.... No, no. That is the nature of the living being, that he is happy by nature because he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So ānanda is nature, but he is finding, trying to find out nature in sinful life. Therefore he is being punished. That he does not know.
Guru dāsa: So that's his ignorance.
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. His nature is to become happy. He is happy, happy. Just like our natural position is we are healthy. Nature has made this body. But we create such situation that we become ill, sick. And at that time we see, "Oh, I am..." What is that? "I am infected. I have been contaminated." Go to the doctor, injection. But the natural life is no disease.
Reporter (3): Sometimes the suffering is self brought and sometimes a suffering is brought without self, by nature.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no, that is wrong. Every suffering is brought by you, yourself. Just like if you are punished by the high-court judge to be hanged, you don't make the high-court judge is the cause of your hanging. You made a situation; the high-court judge has given you the judgment that you must be hanged.
Reporter (2): Would you tell us something about the Vedic city which is being constructed in Māyāpura?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He wants to know something about the Vedic city which is being constructed in Māyāpura.
Prabhupāda: Yes, not Vedic city. Vedic planetarium. How you got this information?
Prabhupāda: So anywhere you send, the student and teacher class is there. You change the name, you change the process, it doesn't matter, but the student class and teacher class will always remain. That is your foolishness. You are simply changing different names. But originally, as planned by nature, that is always there.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They say let the factory worker teach the teacher.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, teacher class, rascal, it is teacher class. You make a teacher class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say everyone should be teachers.
Prabhupāda: That "should be" means not.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they are making everyone teachers.
Prabhupāda: And this "making" means not.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct).
Devotee (2): Purport. "This should not be misunderstood. In the Seventh Chapter the Lord says that one who is engaged in mischievous activities cannot become a devotee of the Lord. One who is not a devotee of the Lord has no good qualifications whatsoever. The question remains, then, How can a person engaged in abominable activities—either by accident or intention—be a pure devotee? This question may be justly raised. The miscreants, as stated in the Seventh Chapter, who never come to the devotional service of the Lord, have no good qualifications, as is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Generally, a devotee who is engaged in the nine kinds of devotional activities is engaged in the process of cleansing all material contamination from the heart. He puts the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart, and all sinful contaminations are naturally washed away. Continuous thinking of the Supreme Lord makes him pure by nature.
Prabhupāda: Just like a child had..., has faith in his parents. So that is not an artificial thing, that is fact. And parents are trustworthy to the child. There is no doubt of..., by nature. So, similarly, why could..., you should be in trust in God? Why blindly? Why not trust with knowledge? And that is our movement. Every civilized person has got some faith in God. But now, they're advanced, they should understand what is God, why you must have faith in Him. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Reporter: It's a matter of education...
Prabhupāda: Simply faith, blind faith we do not endure. And therefore they are becoming godless. And gradually, if we do not understand factually what is God, then the whole human civilization will be godless. To become godless means again animal. That is the difference between animal and man. In the animal society there is no question of religion, faith, God. These things are not there. The human civilization, if it becomes like that, without any faith in God, without any understanding of God, then where is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings?
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of...
Kern: No, but you can..., my point is if a child would be born...
Prabhupāda: I'm talking that those who are handicapped, by nature defective, we shall deal with them. That's all right.
Kern: How? How do you deal with them? That's my question.
Prabhupāda: Well, what? How you are dealing? You cannot. I told you that if your hand is cut, is it possible for me to add another hand in your body?
Kern: No, but...
Prabhupāda: Then you are unable. You have to accept it. But as far as possible we can give them help. That is not the question. Question is, those who are not handicapped, they are rotting without education, without enlightenment by keeping themselves as fourth-class, fifth-class men. Why not train them to become first-class men? That is the point. If one is blind, you cannot give him eyes. If one is lame, you cannot give him leg. That is beyond your ability. That is another thing; we shall deal with them later on. First of all, those who are born as human beings, why should you keep them as third-class, fourth-class men?
Prabhupāda: So, if we keep the human society in darkness about the aim of life, that is not civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). I think you understand Sanskrit. Svārtha-gatim, the real self-interest, is to go back to home, back to Godhead. For that purpose, the human life is given by nature as an opportunity in the cycle of birth and death. So if we don't take advantage of this human form of life, when we can realize God and go back to home, back to Godhead, then it is misused. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They're enamored by the external energy of God, this material energy, and they are thinking that utilizing the material energy, the dog is running on his legs, and if he can run on motorcar, that is advancement. But the business is the running, without any purpose.
Prabhupāda: When they heard in the hell there is no newspaper, then came to the idea, "Oh, it is horrible." Otherwise, cold, dark, "Oh, this is our custom. We are already accustomed to these habits, we are working in the mine. So don't make any distinction between hell and our present residential quarters. But if there is no newspaper, certainly that is hell."
Pradyumna:
- naiṣkarmyam apy acyuta-bhāva-varjitaṁ
- na śobhate jñānam alaṁ nirañjanam
- kutaḥ punaḥ śaśvad abhadram īśvare
- na cārpitaṁ karma yad apy akāraṇam
"Knowledge of self-realization, even though freed from all material affinity, does not look well if devoid of a conception of the infallible God. What then is the use of fruitive activities, which are naturally painful from the very beginning and transient by nature if they are not utilized for the devotional service of the Lord?" Purport. "As referred to above, not only ordinary literatures devoid of the transcendental glorification of the Lord are condemned, but also Vedic literatures and speculation on the subject of impersonal Brahman when they are devoid of devotional service.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity, nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger, renunciation, tranquillity, aversion to fault-finding, compassion and freedom from covetousness, gentleness, modesty and steady determination, vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor—these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature." (purport) "In the beginning of the Fifteenth Chapter the banyan tree of this material world was explained. The extra roots coming out of it were compared to the activities of the living entities, some auspicious, some inauspicious. In the Ninth Chapter also the devas, or godly, and asuras, the ungodly or demons, were explained. Now according to Vedic rites, activities in the mode of goodness are considered auspicious for progress on the path of liberation, and such activities are known as daivī prakṛti, transcendental by nature. Those who are situated in the transcendental nature make progress..."
Prabhupāda: The defect of modern civilization is that they have no idea about liberation. Neither they have any idea about transmigration of the soul. From the very root, they are defective. They are thinking... Just like animals. Dog is thinking, "I am this dog. I am born dog and I'll die, that's finished, everything." He cannot think that "I can become also man."
Prabhupāda: So you cannot stop the suffering. You are unable. You are also suffering from the same disease. So don't say that jagat mithyā. If they are suffering, that's a fact. Then how do you say it is mithyā, it is false? If it is mithyā, then why you are affected by the suffering? There are so many questions. That means not realization. Contradictory. If you feel the suffering, then why you call it mithyā? It is fact. Why do you say it is mithyā? That means you have no realization. You are accepting suffering as mithyā. We say suffering is not mithyā, it is fact, but if you want to save from suffering, then you get out of this material world. We don't say that, that suffering is mithyā or this world is mithyā. We don't say that. We are offering this flower to Kṛṣṇa, not as mithyā; it is a means of service. Why shall I say it is mithyā? By offering... Kṛṣṇa says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). By offering a little flower. How can I say this is mithyā? Māyāvādī's philosophy, it is mithyā. With mithyā we can approach the satya? By hundreds of false we can make one truth? Kṛṣṇa says that "If you offer Me a little flower," so how can I say this is mithyā? It is not mithyā. It is satya. When it is satya? When it is offered to Kṛṣṇa. And when you take it for your sense gratification, that is mithyā. That is mithyā. You cannot enjoy it. If you enjoy it, then go to hell. If you offer it to Kṛṣṇa, you go to Him. So how can I say it is mithyā? You cannot approach Kṛṣṇa with something mithyā. Then Kṛṣṇa becomes mithyā. There are so many things to be studied. We don't say like that. We find there is relationship of Kṛṣṇa with everything. When we find this beautiful rose, we find the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. By Kṛṣṇa's intelligence it has come out so nice, fragrant, beautiful. They say it is made by nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga, give me name, fame, wealth, good wife, and so on, so on." Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavati-bhāryaṁ dehi. Simply demanding for sense gratification. So that is not love of Godhead. That is to select one agent of God and exact from him as much as you can for your sense gratification. That is not recommended in the Vedic religion. Vedic religion, although there are demigods, but the ultimate is oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are sūraya, actually advanced, they see to the Viṣṇu paramaṁ padam. Viṣṇor aradhanaṁ param. The worship of Viṣṇu is the supreme worship. So actually everyone should be worshiper of Viṣṇu. And that is Vaiṣṇavism. So Vaiṣṇavism means for everyone or sanātana dharma. That I have already explained. The human.... The living entity is sanātana. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7). He is sanātana. God is sanātana. The exchange between God and the living entity is called sanātana-dharma or Vaiṣṇavism. So we are teaching that. We are not teaching Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. We are teaching how to love God. That's all. There is no question of proselytization. It is the natural. We are, by nature we are lover of God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the third point, lacks—in matter column—lacks specific inherent complex form, and life column has a specific complex form and activity by nature. Now here we are talking about complex form. Normally the matter itself is very simple by nature, but life tends, when the living entity is in a living body, the matter itself is also very complex when it is associated with life. But matter per se is a very simple, simple structure.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can you say, though, that the soul has a complex form?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we get information that in the spiritual world the spiritual world is full of variegatedness. It is not just one variety. It is full of varieties. So we take that as proof of the complex nature of life.
Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof. As soon as the life is off, there is no variety. So what do you want, more proof that life is full of variety.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Rūpānuga: The characteristic here, Śrīla Prabhupāda says, is that life has specific complex form and activity by nature. So that this activity, complex activity...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, axiomatic. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, ānandamaya. And variety is the mother of enjoyment. Unless... Just like these bunch of flowers... When there are varieties of flowers, it becomes a very enjoyable bunches. If you simply bring rose, although it is very valuable, it is not so enjoyable. But when there are small, insignificant leaf also, which is not valuable than the rose, but rose becomes beautiful. That is life. And who appreciates it? When a man is living. A dead man cannot appreciate this beauty. There is beauty. Combination of varieties is beauty, or blissfulness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, everywhere there is mixture. Otherwise, how it comes to 8,000,000? There is mixture. But this is the general division. Now you cannot make how much passion, how much goodness is there. That you can understand from the behavior. But this is general division. We can speak of general division. The minute division is made by nature. That nature's study, one who can study nature, then he can do that.
Rūpānuga: That means to study the activity, psychology of the...
Prabhupāda: So all the qualities are working, mixed up practically. But prominently like this. Here you cannot have any quality completely of that quality. Other qualities are there, but prominently that particular... Just like demigods. They also become sometimes passionate, sometimes ignorant. So in this material world it is very difficult to find out pure modes of nature in anything. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sometimes some quality prominent, sometimes some quality is prominent. So the best thing is to become transcendental to all these qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). That is devotional service. Śuddha-sattva, completely pure goodness. That is wanted.
Prabhupāda: ...slam the door. The door is secure or not? (break) ...trying to find out that happiness from this body, that is mistake. That happiness is there in the spirit soul, not this body. Happiness is our right. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, we want happiness. Mistaking, where is the happiness. The living being, he is to enjoy happiness. But they are trying to give happiness to the body, which is dead. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). The body is dead from the very beginning, but they are trying to draw happiness from the dead matter.
Hari-śauri: Chewing the chewed.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and that is not being fulfilled. Therefore planning, sometimes this way, sometimes that way. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Mental concoction. Real platform they are missing. Sometimes sitting down, sometimes... (laughter) Happiness. When tired up, then come down. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).
Rūpānuga: All right, so then in an embryo stage...
Prabhupāda: Any stage, it is, the whole thing is complicated.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But you are saying that the soul is actually by nature very simple.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At least compared to the material world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The soul is not complicated.
Sadāpūta: I believe what Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu is saying is that matter, each element studied by itself, has a simple structure, but when the body is formed with the soul, then it becomes apparently more complex; the chemical reactions become more complex.
Prabhupāda: That is spiritual. That glancing is spiritual. So matter itself cannot do anything. Aja-jala-stana, aja-jala-stana. The nipples in the throat, neck. As there are some nipples, nipples useless, that is not milk-giving nipples. So nature is creating. They, generally, they say "by nature," but nature has no power. It is matter. When there is glance of Saṅkarṣaṇa or Viṣṇu, that will do.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In that state, when a living entity's impregnated in this state, it is also said that it is in pure goodness.
Prabhupāda: Pure goodness always, it is simply covered.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is not the completely manifested yet, but then it says by the contamination of pure goodness by ahaṅkāra, then starts material ego. From there, everything is going to manifest. So once we come to material ego then it seems clear.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi...
Prabhupāda: Dasyu, dasyu means thieves and rogues. So as the thieves and rogues capture you on the street and ask "Whatever you have got, give, otherwise I shall kill you," so this will be the position in the Kali-yuga. It is happening now. You cannot have any private property; everything you have to declare. Otherwise, it will be taken by force. So people will be very much embarrassed by two things: one thing is taxation, and another thing will be scarcity of food. In this way, all the people all over the world will be embarrassed, so much so that they will leave their home, hearth and home, ācchinna-dāra-draviṇā yāsyanti giri-kānanam. Being separated from family and property, they will take shelter in the hilly ranges or in the forest to get relief. This will be the position. Harassment, so much harassment, by nature, by government. So therefore for complete happy society, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is essential. All intelligent persons, they should join this movement and reform the present social, political, religious.
Prabhupāda: By nature it is very important movement. Therefore those who are intelligent, they are taking serious interest. We have got so many books. Perhaps you have seen. They are being accepted by the learned circle all over the world. University, colleges, professors, they are reading our books, placing standing order, and we have got relationship, especially with educated circle. They are trying to understand the importance of this movement.
Janice Johnson: I don't quite understand that in terms of my question about wearing street clothes and wigs instead of saffron robes and chanting and so forth.
Hari-śauri: She's pointing out that in recent years we've changed our dressing style while we're on the street selling books.
Prabhupāda: They will say that is... Whatever they... Foolishly whatever they may say, then let them say. Actually he doesn't like to die. Otherwise let there be fire, why you called fire brigade? Let me die peacefully in the fire. (laughter) Nonsense he's suffering, but still he says there is no suffering. That is nonsense. That is ignorance. He's suffering every moment, but he does not know why he's suffering. That is ignorance. Just like an animal, you are taking into the slaughterhouse. He's suffering, he's screaming, but he does not know why you have taken to slaughterhouse (indistinct). And that is animal life. And when there will be question of why I am suffering? I did not want this fire, why there is fire? That is perfection (indistinct). Is there any solution? Then there is human life. And if he remains like animal, and simply try to make some remedial measures... He's suffering undoubtedly, but because he does not take it seriously, therefore he's animal. Animal does not take seriously why he's suffering. That is the distinction between human life and animal life. Suffering is there, but the animal does not take it seriously. But human life must take it seriously otherwise he's an animal. There are so many sufferings. This is adhibhau... adhidaivika. Adhidaivika: by—you say accident—by nature, by superior power.
Prabhupāda: But they are being controlled. They, themselves, being controlled.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By nature.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say nature means laws, impersonal laws.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, impersonal laws, but you are controlled, rascal. That you admit. Whatever it may be, you rascal, you are controlled.
Rāmeśvara: They say if everyone joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then no one would have any desire to invent the automobile, the airplane...
Prabhupāda: But it is useless waste of time. The sooner they give up all these attempts, they become saner. (break)... it is said it is simply waste of time. Yato āyur vyayaḥ param. Simply wasting time, valuable life.
Prabhupāda: ...the Vedic mantras. "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body there is the soul. So on account of presence of the soul we are transmigrating to different bodies. Just like from childhood to boyhood. The body of a boy is different from the body of a child, but the same soul who was within the body of a child has now come within the body of a boy. And the same soul again, he will go in the body of a young man. And the same soul again will go in the body of an old man. And the same soul, when the body of old man is finished, then he enters another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6).
Prabhupāda: Yes, I wanted to start this movement from India. I even requested Mahatma Gandhi, that "Mahatmaji, you have got some respect all over the world, and you are known as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. Now you have got your sva-rājya, the Britishers have gone away. Let us preach Bhagavad-gītā." But I don't think I got any reply from him. Of course he was very busy man. My letter might have reached him or not reached him. The secretaries might have rejected. I think received from secretary, like that. But then after few days he was killed. So I was trying for this purpose in India. I approached many friends, that "You have got four sons. Give me one son so that I can train him how to become a real preacher of Bhagavad-gītā, how one can understand." Because Bhagavad-gītā is being misinterpreted. So I wanted to preach it as it is. That was my mission. So practically nobody joined me. Then I decided to come here. And these boys cooperated. So I have got great desire to... Because India is by nature Kṛṣṇa conscious, but our modern leaders keeping them suppressed. That is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: No, that I will adjust. That is not the thing. I want to know when my joining will be very good. That I want to know. At the beginning or the middle, in the last, that you have to decide. Then I shall adjust. In London, I think... Of course, the whole route I was present, but that was little troublesome because sometimes I am called by nature. But you say there will be a car. So under the circumstances, which time will be good? That you say. Then I shall adjust. That you consult, which time.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, if I can have about five minutes, I'll ask a few people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then I'll adjust.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you're agreeable at any time as long as that convenience... That's a good convenience, I think, that we'll have that vehicle.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Prabhupāda: He rejected guru. "You are not guru."
Rāmeśvara: Śukrācārya.
Satsvarūpa: But that guru told him to worship Viṣṇu officially.
Prabhupāda: No, he was by nature Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇava, like the grandfather, Prahlāda Mahārāja.
Satsvarūpa: But he was a demon.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Satsvarūpa: Born as a demon, in a demon family, not a demon.
Prabhupāda: Demon family. Viṣṇu-dveṣī(?). Still, they are kṣatriyas. Just like the Europeans and Americans, they were kṣatriyas, now they have become demons. Actually they are kṣatriyas. I have studied. And the Jews are vaiśyas. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: We understand the mother is pregnant. Now how she has been, how the child is growing, that is not under your control. It is going on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), immediately it is in hand of the nature. Even if you study, you cannot understand how things are arranged—the intestine is joined to the navel of the child and the food is supplied, how it is mechanical: do you know everything? Can anyone do? Can anyone understand? But things are there. That is being done by prakṛtiḥ. Even if you study, you cannot understand. So best thing is to understand that it is being done by nature under the instruction of Supreme Lord. Let us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa instead of studying these.... There are many students, many botanists, many.... They, vaguely they are studying, and the have no understanding of Kṛṣṇa. They're denying, rather the father. The child has come into existence without father. This is their knowledge. So instead of becoming such a fool and rascal it is better not to study.
Prabhupāda: Let them do that, befool others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Because others, they are blind, this blind man, whatever he says, they believe. They will say "Perhaps ten millions of years ago there was life, perhaps." These things are going on. But we know every planet is full of living entity. There is regular life and there are streets. The streets are paved with pearls, corals, in Svargaloka. We have got information. And what is their information? Scratching some sand and bring it, that's all. As if sand is not available. But we give information there are planets where the pavements are with pearls. Go and bring some pearls. There is the ocean of milk. Bring some milk from there. And then we shall understand that you are making some research. Simply all over the universe dry sand? And here the population is increasing. Just see. We have to believe all this. Everything is by nature vacant and all people and animals are here. And we have to believe that. Hmm. Read it. They are exposing more and more about their nonsensical scientific inquiry.
Prabhupāda: Just see, by nature refusing, and by force...
Hari-śauri: They they develop a taste. My mother said that I used to refuse as well, but then they made me. Now I got a taste.
Prabhupāda: So in my childhood, when I was one and one-half years old, I suffered from typhoid, and the Dr. Karttika Candra Bose, he said that he, "Please give him chicken juice." So my father refused: "No, no, we cannot." "No, no he has to be given. Now he has become very weak." "No, no, I cannot allow." "Don't mind, I shall prepare in my own house and send. You simply..." So it was sent from his house, and when it was given to me, immediately I began to vomit. And my father threw it away, and when the doctor asked that this was the... "No, no, then don't bother." This story I heard. This allopathetic system of medicine introduced all these things in India. Otherwise they did not know.
Prabhupāda: This meat-eating, chicken juice, tea, these things are unknown to India. No, why India? By nature, you say that you refused meat. Although you were born of a father and mother meat-eaters, still. What a horrible civilization they have made. He's human being born. Making him animal by culture. Instead of making him more cultured towards the spiritual life, making him redirected again to animal life. This is the civilization, Western civilization.
Hari-śauri: Yes, there's not much choice, not any choice.
Prabhupāda: These children are fortunate. Yesterday I was astonished how these children were receiving just like friend, laughing and something saying, you have seen it? As an old friend. Their mother pushes they would not come, but they were very glad to see me.
Hari-śauri: Everybody's very glad to see you.
Prabhupāda: I was astonished, that how these children take me as friend.
Prabhupāda: Give them knowledge from Bhagavad-gītā. If you accept dependence on God, then you take instruction from God, how you'll be happy. Just like a child. The child knows he's fully dependent on parents. So he's fully obeying the orders of the parents, then he's happy, naturally. The father, mother, knows how to take care of the child and they're happy. And by nature they're dependent on father and mother. So they are happy. Mother says, "My dear child, sit down." He will sit down. By nature.
Dayānanda: Some people are sectarian in their idea of God.
Prabhupāda: What is sectarian? Every sect the child is dependent of the parents. What do you mean by sectarian? Does it mean the Hindu child does not depend on the parents? The Muslim child depends on the parents? Everyone depends on the parents. Either he may be Hindu child or Muslim child or Christian child, that is the nature of the child. Similarly, you may be Hindu, you may be Muslim, you are dependent on God. This is a fact. What is sectarian? Can the Muslims say that "No, no, we are not dependent on God"? Can the Christians say like that? We have to take the general condition: everyone is dependent on God. Where is the question of sectarian?
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything, if there is no everything, then what is the meaning of intelligence?
Dayānanda: But I may develop more intelligence to create what I lack.
Prabhupāda: That is theory. That is not fact. (break) That is given by nature or God, whatever you say. That is not in your intelligence.
Hari-śauri: God may have given us all the basic things, but it's taken man's intelligence to make the...
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but if God has given you so many basic things, then you can use your intelligence. Otherwise, your intelligence... There is a story that one man was asked by his friend, "Have you got intelligence?" He began to search out here. So, "What is this?" He said, "Intelligence means when there is money here. Otherwise, I am even though I have got intelligence, useless." You can utilize your intelligence provided you have got the means. Intelligence also you cannot utilize properly if there is no supply.
Harikeśa:
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
"The bewildered spirit soul, under the influence of the three modes of material nature, thinks himself to be the doer of activities which are in actuality carried out by nature."
Prabhupāda: So how we are independent? Did Mr. Freud not die? When prakṛti, nature, kicked on his face, he immediately died. So how he's independent? These rascals have created all troubles. The so-called rascal philosophers, scientists, politicians, they have created all troubles. He's completely dependent on nature, on the laws of nature, and still he says, "I am independent. I have grown up." What you have grown up? You have grown up as a great fool, that's all. You have not grown up to be intelligent. You have grown up a great rascal, that's all. So refute them in this way, then you'll be preacher. So what is your argument about humanity?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Varṇāśramācāra-vatā. The varṇa and āśrama I've already explained. Just like for maintenance of the whole body there are different parts: the brain, the arm, the belly, and the leg. Similarly, varṇāśrama means the head—brāhmaṇa; the arms—kṣatriya; the belly—vaiśya; and the leg—śūdra. So by nature these divisions are there. Varṇa, four varṇas and four āśramas. Four varṇas means social divisions, and four āśrama, spiritual division. So apart from spiritual division, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa, the social division must be observed. The brain must be there. Brāhmaṇa. Everything must be there. Not only the brain. The arms also required—military department or kṣatriya department. Yuddhe cāpy apalayanam(?). The kṣatriyas are so brave, they don't go away from fighting field, battlefield. Just like Arjuna was trying to become nonviolent. Immediately Kṛṣṇa chastised him, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam akīrti-karam. So everything is required. It is not that everyone should become brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal.
Indian man: Ah. This who took the birth of this human being or animal was a gentleman.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is gentleman by nature. But criminal by artificial means. As soon as...
Indian man: But even if you attain mokṣa is that eternal or just temporary and the until becomes lost, and then...
Prabhupāda: Mokṣa, there are two kinds of mokṣa. One, generally, they like that, to remain in impersonal Brahman.
Indian man: For a limited period.
Prabhupāda: Limited period, no. Because he cannot remain there. Just like if you go in the sky you cannot remain in the sky. If you don't get any shelter you have to come again. They are going to, trying to go to the other planets, but because they cannot, they come back again.
Prabhupāda: Limited period, no. Because he cannot remain there. Just like if you go in the sky you cannot remain in the sky. If you don't get any shelter you have to come again. They are going to, trying to go to the other planets, but because they cannot, they come back again. Similarly, you are living entity, you want enjoyment. So what enjoyment you will have in the sky? You require society, friends, love, everything. So these impersonalists, their mokṣa is temporary because they think by merging into the impersonal Brahman I shall be happy. But that he cannot. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Although they go to the impersonal Brahman, but there is no ānanda. The living entity is seeking after ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. By nature he is seeking ānanda. So you do not get any ānanda.
Indian man: Is that merger itself not ānanda?
Prabhupāda: Unnecessarily attraction she will avoid. But a woman is naturally, her psychology is dress very nicely so that man may be attracted. Because they want shelter. This is the whole psychology. They, although they declare independence, they cannot live independently. That is not possible. Therefore they are by nature accustomed to dress attractively so that one may accept her and give her shelter. This is psychology. Otherwise, why the woman are naturally inclined to dress herself nice. Man does not. This is the psychology. A boy, sixteen years old boy, he does not... He is roughly dressed, he does not... But a sixteen year old girl will never remain roughly. She'll always try to decorate herself very nicely and utilize her youthful beauty for attracting. Why attracting? Because she wants shelter. Therefore it is the duty of the father and mother that she is young girl, she wants shelter, and out of passion, lusty desires, her selection may be wrong. So before she selects out of her own way, let me, it is my duty, I am guardian.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Read it.
Hari-śauri: The whole world is enchanted by three modes of material nature. Those who are bewildered by these three modes cannot understand that transcendental to this material nature is the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. In this material world everyone is under the influence of these three guṇas and is thus bewildered.
By nature living entities have particular types of body and particular types of psychic and biological activities accordingly. There are four classes of men functioning in the three material modes of nature. Those who are purely in the mode of goodness are called brāhmaṇas. Those who are purely in the mode of passion are called kṣatriyas. Those who are in the modes of both passion and ignorance are called vaiśyas.
Jagadīśa: The inclination depends on guṇa-karma.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Although by nature we should not enforce something. We should see for which work he is suitable. You should engage him. And we must have all departments of work—the weaving department, the plowing department, the cow-keeping department, the Sanskrit department, the English department, the trading department. We should have all the departments. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).
Jagadīśa: Head, arms, belly, and legs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whichever suitable, that... One must be suitable for any of these. It is the guide's intelligence: for which purpose he is suitable engage him, like that. That is required, not that everyone has to become a big scholar in Sanskrit. That is not required. Let him come to gurukula, but if he is not suitable... Gurukula, this... So far character is con..., that is for everyone. Just like early rise in the morning, chanting, and going to the...
Prabhupāda: Rich man you can become but for how long you shall be rich? The nature is so cruel; at any moment he'll take away everything. Then what is the use of becoming? No, you become rich man. There is no... But you should know that "Although I am rich, powerful, everything can be taken by nature at any moment." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). That is statement of God, that "Any moment... You try to become rich, powerful, and president or minister, that's all right, but any moment, I can take everything from you." So who will protect himself? They have no brain that "Whatever I have created, it can be taken at any moment." So what is that confidence? They have no inquiry even. That this is a fact. Either you become Napoleon, Hitler or Gandhi, or this or that, any moment everything will be taken away. "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say this kīrtana program must be continued. Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. As you make the heart cleansed, they become more and more advanced. And then this stage of āsakti, that "This is... We shall live here." Just like we have given up our hearth and home and wife and children. We have given up that attachment. This attachment, practical... That is... You cannot expect immediately. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). When one gets better attachment, then they can give up this nasty attachment. Therefore we have to continue this saṅkīrtana. This is the psychology. But there is very great prospect to develop this place, and you have got experience. If you can develop, it will be very nice example. Once successful here, we can introduce this program. And India will be easier because they are by nature inclined to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be easier. The kīrtana must be there. Otherwise why we have to take so much responsibility?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That one thing is that this sort of publicity and this, this dress, is very nice. Girls who have no husband, they should dress like this, not attractive dress. A dress sometimes attracts the opposite sex. And women are... By nature they dress very nicely. (laughs) That is everywhere—to attract. The nature is that they are dependent, woman by nature. Do you admit or not?
Pālikā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And the Western countries, they have been taught to become independent. That is artificial. That is all artificial. So, woman by nature... Manu-saṁhitā says, na striyaṁ svatantram arhati: "Women should not be given independence." They must be protected by the father, by husband, and by elderly sons. They are not independent. No independence. Even Kuntī, the mother of such big, big sons, she was not independent. The sons were sent to the exile; mother also went. Sītā... The father-in-law never said that "You also go with your husband." No. He requested Rāmacandra that "Your stepmother wants that You should be exiled. So please accept it. Accept this." And Rāmacandra said that "You are not exiled." But Sītā said, "I may not be exiled, but I am dependent on You. If You go to the forest I must..." You see? Just see, dependent.
Rāmeśvara: So they kicked the British out, but they still have the British system.
Prabhupāda: They have learned this. They have been accustomed... And by nature they are not, I mean to say, dovetailed to this system of life.
Hari-śauri: Somehow or another, they just can't do it. They can't live like that.
Prabhupāda: And now we are going to Kumbha Mela, a religious assemble. In the Western countries you don't find so much.
Rāmeśvara: No. In the 1960's in America they tried to have such assemblies, but they simply were becoming naked and having drugs—LSD, marijuana—in the name of spiritual festival. I remember very prominent festivals in America, but everyone was simply naked. They thought that was spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Naked? Fully naked?
Prabhupāda: But they have no brain to understand this. No, no. Not this volume. The Tenth Canto I am explaining now. How nature is working, māyayā... They have no value. They are studying gross science. Actually science means how nature is working. But how nature is working, they do not know, and they are very much proud. "Nature's study..." They say they have studied nature, but they do not know how... Here it is said, bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This machine is made by nature. Do you know how it is made? So where is your brain? This is a machine. And everyone knows this machine is made by nature. So how...? Do you know how it is made? Then where is your brain? You are concerned with the typewriting machine—"cutacutacut." Study this machine. Produce a machine like this. Then where is your brain? What do they answer? What do they answer? They are trying?
Prabhupāda: Yes. These chances are there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Find out this verse. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. At the time of death, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa, He will know everything, what I have tried to do. "Now You consider my position. Send me wherever You like." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati.
Rāmeśvara: (reads)
- kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā
- śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati
- kaunteya pratijānīhi
- na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati
- (BG 9.31)
"He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kuntī, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes." Purport. "This should not be misunderstood. In the Seventh Chapter the Lord says that one who is engaged in mischievous activities cannot become a devotee of the Lord. One who is not a devotee of the Lord has no good qualifications whatsoever. The question remains, then, How can a person engaged in abominable activities either by accident or intention, be a pure devotee? This question may justly be raised. The miscreants, as stated in the Seventh Chapter, who never come to the devotional service of the Lord, have no good qualifications, as is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Generally, a devotee who is engaged in nine kinds of devotional activities is engaged in the process of cleansing all material contamination from the heart. He puts the Supreme Personality of Godhead within his heart, and all sinful contaminations are naturally washed away. Continuous thinking of the Supreme Lord makes him pure by nature.
Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something... They will go away. And the human being, oh, he will take five shares, he will take ten shares. And within one hour, ten mounds of rice will be finished. The birds and beasts will not do that. Whatever he actually requires, they will take from there. Therefore they are not subjected to the sinful activities. Only human beings are subjected to sinful activities. But he has got developed consciousness and misusing it. There is no sinful activities for animals lower than the human being. There is no sin. Because they are under the laws of nature, the animals. And as soon as one becomes developed conscious human being, if he does not know the śāstra and guided by spiritual master, he will do all nonsense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma, all sinful activities. Only for sense gratification. Mad after sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take. All the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. That is already described. Narādhamas will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there are persons who are not narādhama. For them there must be. Diamond shop is not for everyone, but there are some persons who can purchase diamonds. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3).
Prabhupāda: Whole thing is spoiled, vitiated. And ultimately this human form of life, it is a chance given by nature. Tathā dehāntara, you become a dog, next. Finished. And you wait millions of years again to come, take the human form. What can I do? These are nature's law. And they are also prepared. "Oh, what is the wrong there, if I become dog?" This civilization. Just imagine how much spoiled it is.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If that's a fact, then let them become a dog now.
Prabhupāda: They are already dogs; otherwise how he is becoming dog? They have been already described. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. They are already... Therefore they are going to change it, the body. They are already cats and dogs. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). A doggish mentality, you will get a dog's body, infections. It is clear, nature's law.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Mūrkhasya lakuṭauṣadhi(?). When a person is fool number one, beat him. That's all. Ḍhol gobara...(?) Tulasī dāsa has said, ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Ḍhol, drum, you have to bring it to the tune by beating, "tung, tung." Gobara. Gobara means fool person. Paśu, animal. Ḍhol, gobara, pa..., śūdra, and nārī, woman. They should be punished to bring them into order. Ei saba śāsana ke adhikārī. Otherwise they will spoil. A barking dog, you cannot pacify him, "My dear dog, don't bark." It will disturb him: "No!" Ḍhol gobara śūdra paśu nārī, ei saba śāsana ke... So anyone who is denying the existence of God, he is a rascal number one and beat him with shoes. Bas. He is being beaten with shoes by nature.
Girirāja: By the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: There is compassion. It is revived. That's all. All the good qualities are there, because he's part and parcel of God, but in ignorance they are now covered. You have to discover. Just like Brahman. You are Brahman by nature, but you are thinking, "I am this...," "I am American," "I am Indian." And that is your disease. "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am gṛhastha." "I am sannyāsī." That is your disease, more or less. But actually you are Brahman because you are part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. So when you actually realize yourself-brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—no problems. All problem finished. So that is required.
Indian man (1): In that state also, there will be compassion.
Prabhupāda: No, that understanding... First of all you have to understand that you are under the rules of material nature, and you accept or not accept, you'll be forced by nature.
Young man (3): Ah, this is understood.
Prabhupāda: That understanding... Then it will be all right. And what is the use of your own rules? If you are forced to accept the rules of material nature, then what is the use of foolish rules? You have to accept. When material nature rules, you must die. You cannot avoid it. You must die. You must change body. You must be. So what is the use of your rules? You can manufacture as a madman. You are completely forced to accept the material nature.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Bhakti-caru was saying that one of the reasons Bengali people are by nature... They're intelligent. They're always intelligent people, not so much physically hard working. So without so much physical work to do and without proper employment, this intelligence now has become misdirected. 'Cause nowhere else in India do the Communists have such a foothold as in Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Intelligent and lazy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Intelligent lazy. I looked on the medicine bottle of this cough medicine that you took.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Hm. That's a fact.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're not... By nature you've never been inactive. We can begin the activity by airplane travel and then a little car journey to the temple, and then we can carry you around in certain places. Like at the New York farm. Oh, we can give you wonderful ride in the palanquin. That's very appealing. If you go on the palanquin in the fresh air. No? That'll be, I think...
Prabhupāda: No, activity will give appetite.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it has to. Change of atmosphere gives appetite also.
Prabhupāda: So let us artificial activity. I think this is a nice arrangement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Upendra and I could see it for the last... (break)
Prabhupāda: And nobody is going to disturb you there. Make your own field and continue to become ṛttvik and act on my charge. People are becoming sympathetic there. The place is very nice.
Prabhupāda: Gujarati people are Vaiṣṇava by nature.
Yaśomatīnandana: One boy that is there, they invite him for prasāda, and then they fan him.
Prabhupāda: Do it nicely. All facilities will come.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can make small cottages for the gṛhasthas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And then they'll be happy there.
Prabhupāda: Weekly visitors. Two-rooms cottage.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This will attract a lot of people.
Prabhupāda: And it will cost not more than fifteen thousand, two-room cottage.
Yaśomatīnandana: Now we will organize. Just now we had to rush everything.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. Don't make it a rush.
Prabhupāda: Have you invented something that man will not die? Then it is approved. They are dying. You have given facilities to die earlier. That is atomic energy. There is no energy which can save him—"No more death." Is that improvement? By nature one dies natural death, and you have accelerated-many millions of people can be killed by this atomic weapon. So what is your achievement? Save millions of people.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Mentally deranged intellectuals are capable of expatiating on their hallucinations."
Prabhupāda: So who is mentally deranged?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says we are. He says, "And they often become founders and preachers of diverse types of religious cults."
Prabhupāda: No, no. Your atomic energy, what benefit has done to the people?
Prabhupāda: He's giving very strong argument.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "The Oxford Dictionary defines empirical as 'based on observation and experiment.' Observation and experiment is conducted with limited senses. Therefore the conclusions are naturally limited and imperfect. So in fact, the soul and the existence of God is quite beyond the power of Kovoor's observation. Why be so obstinate? This is common sense, a point anyone can understand. He says, 'It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature.' This is a preposterous claim only a fool would make. Nature forces everyone to become old, diseased, and, lastly, die. Even the most powerful conquerors of the world are helplessly dragged off the stage of life by nature in the shape of all-devouring death. But perhaps Dr. Kovoor will be the first living being in the history of the world that will conquer over death. That remains to be seen. And lastly he says, 'Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy to reach millions of light years in space, landing on the moon, etc.'
| Page Title: | By nature... (Conversations 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 08 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=59, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 59 |