British (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"britain" |"british" |"britisher" |"britisher's" |"britishers" |"brittanic" |"brittanica" |"brittanicas"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Factories and industry and export and import and then slaughterhouse, drinking, prostitute—these are all British contribution. In India, before that, they did not know, although there was Muhammadan kingdom. Muhammadans were happy as ruler. They did not... They thought that "Let them execute their own religion, and let us our religion." That was the relation. And Hindus, they took it that "Somebody must be government..." (break) ...policy that "If the Indians remain as Indian, it will be impossible to govern. Give them education and condemn everything Indian." And they engaged their own men, engaged our men, and gradually they developed the industry. Naturally people became very much astonished: "Oh, they are making such a nice bridge. We have now laid down the railway. We have got facilities, so on, so on..." They gave them, for developing these enterprises, a little knowledge in English, ABCD, they would get good job. In this way they established. Money and export, import... This business enterprise and industry, these..., all these things, were introduced. There was not a single factory before British days. Industry idea is completely Western. And tea garden.

Girirāja: I know Mr. Bajoria in Calcutta, he told me that in the beginning the Indians would not purchase tea because they considered it was sinful, and the British had to make a big propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, tea sets(?) committee. All the tea gardeners, all, they were mostly Britishers. They paid money for maintaining a department, tea sets(?) committee, and their only business was to make propaganda village to village how tea becomes popular. Similarly, drinking, meat-eating... And it became a fashion among the richer class to keep prostitutes, go to the garden weekend with prostitutes and wine, freely use them, intoxicated. It was a prestigious position to keep a prostitute. A rich man having a garden and one prostitute, they were... Anything in demand... I have seen it. Now I think, "How things are going on, that...?" You have seen that Mullik's house?

Girirāja: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell. Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's all. The condition remains the same—hellish. But... What is called...? Complacent, he's satisfied that "I am getting the profit." All foolish. The Iran is also imitating European method of exploiting. They're bringing men from village. In India also, British period, they used to, that, but Indian people are little clever. They would come from the village to the city alone, not with family. They earn money and send to the family. And whenever they like, they go away. They're not dependent. And if you bring family, you have to work. That system is still going on. The village men, they come but they do not bring their family. Family remains in the village. He earns, he lives some way or other and sends money there, and the wife who is intelligent. He (she) accumulates the money and when there is enough money he (she) purchases land, investment. So... In after few years, when they have got enough land, they do not come back. They produce their own necessities. Very nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. As soon as they are self-sufficient from the land they no more work. That's a good idea. Remain in the village with family.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: At that time in India it was eight thousand rupees only, very strong car.

Trivikrama: From America it came?

Prabhupāda: Yes, American cars were selling during British days, Ford, Buick, Chevrolet. These cars were selling. Dodge. In 1925 I purchased one Buick car, eight thousand rupees.

Dr. Patel: Small cars were everywhere 1700 rupees in 1936-37.

Prabhupāda: And Ford car was very cheap.

Dr. Patel: Thirty-two hundred rupees. V8 Ford cars were sold in Bombay market for thirty-two hundred rupees, three thousand two hundred. Now you send a car for repairs, the bill will be six thousand, seven thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: What can be done? Things have gone high, I was calculating the other day, twenty times.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Devotee: So now in America we are slowly starting to understand by Śrīla Prabhupāda's mercy what is the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, real purpose of yoga. Unfortunately we are finding in India people have misunderstood Gītā. And...

Indian (1): Misunderstood Gītā. Now even they are not study. You see, there is no study at all. It is an unfortunate thing here. In our educational system, the slave system coming from British regime, still it is not changed. Unfortunately, whatever change we see, that change goes anti-religion. So the present generation is suffering.

Prabhupāda: Change means we have lost our culture.

Indian (1): They have lost culture, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is change.

Devotee: So Śrīla Prabhupāda is offering the real Indian culture...

Indian (1): Yes, that is correct. We have to fulfill all these things. We have to teach them, we have to guide them, advise them, make them study, for that purpose conducting some classes in Sanskrit in the Hindu community... (break)

Prabhupāda: He has allowed us to go to the United... (break) ...assembly to enlighten them. So we, are going there. Recent letter? Where is...? (end)

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Haṁsas.

Prabhupāda: Haṁsas. They live in a very nice clean water, garden. Uśanti mānasā. They do not go there. Now they are making so much propaganda against our men, but these boys will never go to cinema. Uśanti mānasā. They are boys. They have no attraction, restaurant and cinema. You'll never find. Uśanti mānasā. They have rejected. And we see others—they are making line, queue. Yes. Why? Vāyasaṁ tīrtham. They like that. Crows like... They have been educated like crows.

Dr. Patel: They feed on the filth. This is one difficulty. All people are mad after the cinema.

Prabhupāda: They will wait four hours, five hours, standing. Why cinema? I have seen in London the British Museum. Something came there. From morning there is a queue. Exactly like that, they were standing to go and see the museum. Something came. I... Three, four years ago I saw. They were standing. Just like here. For purchasing the cinema ticket they are standing and eating nampalli, just to see, eyesight. They will not come to see Deity in the temple. They'll not come. Mentality is different. It is a very dangerous civilization, soul-killing civilization. We should be very, very careful if we want success also. We shall go now? (end)

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: We have contact with this committee.

Prabhupāda: And where is governor's camp from our?

Gurudāsa: I don't know exactly, but it's in the same island. I'll find out.

Prabhupāda: No, there is... Our governor is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29).

Dr. Patel: All the Britishers were organizing this Mela, Kumbha.

Prabhupāda: No, in... They were taking... The committee... I said that, "We have committee?" This is British time. One magistrate is the head and assistants, so many.

Dr. Patel: The government officers may not be getting any interest, only the Hindu officials, these British officers.

Prabhupāda: No. Our government, they have to manage so many people. The Nagas... I learned it from Bhāgavatam.

Dr. Patel: Nagas come from Assam, no?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Arjuna married the Naga king's daughter. And he had a son.

Dr. Patel: Babhruvāhana.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You go and eat there. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: But I don't go there to eat it. These government regulations are very bad. I don't think they would be able to...

Gurudāsa: It's your own right to...

Dr. Patel: He thought that India is spoiled by American policy, Mr. Dulles's. And he spoiled the pitch, this Mr. Nehru, Nehru, being a flamboyant, highly arrogant man... And then they supported Pakistan, and Americans lost lot of money on these small wars. Instead of that, much money was given away to a poor country. it was Dulles who got United States to this present condition. We should have insulated this country after svaraj, not selling anything, not taking anything. Produce yourself or starve and die. People don't work when they get food like that.

Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (4): We are the victims of the British Empire who ruled us.

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, you are victims of yourself. Why...? British is not here now.

Guest (8) (Indian man): We are indoctrined.

Prabhupāda: British is not here now.

Guest (8): No, they have indoctrined such a philosophy.

Guest (2): But what was there before British came? This is human weakness of our own.

Prabhupāda: It is... You... You have been taught that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. Kūpa-maṇḍa, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that—avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11)—that "Kṛṣṇa may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). They won't believe that. And still, they'll declare, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." They won't believe a word of Kṛṣṇa, and they'll say, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. This is our position. In India everyone says, "I have read Bhagavad-gītā three hundred times," but he does not know even a word. So this should be stopped. If we want to advance actually, you take every word of Bhagavad-gītā and try to apply in life. Then everyone will be happy. That is a fact. The instruction is there. There is no difficulty to understand. There is no question of interpretation. Simply take it as it is and try to apply it in life—you'll be happy. And your human life will be successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Up to this human form of life, we have passed through so many evolutionary process, but if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, no more material body.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: This idea will be very popular with the devotees.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So now you can distribute...

Hari-śauri: Take prasāda... (indistinct) (break) (train stops)

Rāmeśvara: That's the British propaganda, that they came to India and made India more civilized.

Prabhupāda: This is civilization, that running, congested, hanging on. These rascals...

Rāmeśvara: Their famous phrase was "The white man's burden."

Prabhupāda: Unless they made such propaganda, how they could stay? They must give some plea that "I am staying for their benefit." That was the propaganda all through. And any Indian who would agree to say in the League of Nations and when there is conference, "Yes, we are so much benefited," he would be made secretary, governor. The flatterer, he would be made governor.

Rāmeśvara: So they kicked the British out, but they still have the British system.

Prabhupāda: They have learned this. They have been accustomed... And by nature they are not, I mean to say, dovetailed to this system of life.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Artistic.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, it'll show the higher religious culture of India. That will impress many people in America. They think of India as so backwards, but they'll see that they have these beautiful temples.

Prabhupāda: So that is due to British propaganda. British propaganda was that they were staying in India to make India civilized.

Rāmeśvara: Their big propaganda is that "India is so poor and they are so stupid, they are giving all their money to the temple, so they are remaining poor, so what is the use of this religion?" That was the propaganda, that "Religion is the opiate of the people."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not... Therefore they are... The Indian rascals, they using this income of Bālaji for industry. They are bringing, that "The poor people, on account of their innocence, they are blindly, so..." Communist movement is against us because we are constructing costly temples, crores and rupees. This could have been utilized in industry. That is their protest. Temple construction was practically stopped in India. And I have again revived. Nobody was interested to construct temple anywhere within the recent at least hundred years or fifty years.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Actually India is poor. When we give food, how voraciously they eat. They cannot eat. They have no resources to eat nicely at home. That's a fact. Half-fed. At least half-fed. In the villages they are not fully fed. They have no sufficient clothing, no food, that's all. The rascal politicians, realizing heavy tax, and that is divided amongst them. It is not going to the poor. They are imitating Western way of life. They have got huge expenditure. So whatever money is coming, they are spending for their luxury, and poor men... The Gandhi's movement, boycott British goods, but they took it: "Boycott British goods and take our goods." So the consumer goods were the same. Gandhi helped to stop the British capitalist in favor of the Indian capitalist. The consumer remained in the same position, rather, worse. The foreigners, they are thinking that "These people are poor. They cannot pay more to me." And these rascals, Indian capitalists, in the name of nationalism, Birlas and others, they exploit. And they give contribution to Gandhi, Gandhi's staff, Jawaharlal Nehru's staff. And they took the opportunity that "I shall pay this rascal one lakh, and I shall utilize the ten lakhs." That's it. So the object of exploitation remained the same. Rather, by artificial inflation of money market put common men in plight, because the other day I was calculating... The things have gone high priced, thirty times, but the income has not increased thirty times. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we had no scarcity. In our standard of life there was no scar... What standard of...? That standard of life is still... Now that three hundred rupees is... He calculated.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Gurudāsa: Twenty years in...?

Prabhupāda: In Durban. South Africa. Fighting with General Smuts to give Indians equal rights. They are very conservative. At heart they want "Indians may go away." They don't want Indians. And if they want, it is for their own benefit. The Indians have given some place to develop as marketplace, and as soon as they develop, they ask, "Go there. Leave this place. Go away, other place." This is going on. And they know very well, politicians. The Indians have been given a place where nearby there is a slaughterhouse. They know Indians are sentimental, at least for cow slaughtering. Whole night slaughtering is going on, and there are screaming of the animals. Whole night. Even those who are meat-eaters, they will be disturbed. So the purpose is that "Let them live near the slaughterhouse, so by sentiment they are disgusted, leave this country." They don't want the Asians, especially Indians, and especially due to Gandhi, because they know, due to Gandhi... At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement. They were not affected by the... Affected in this way, that public opinion was against them. That is also organization. Otherwise Gandhi's method was not harmful to the..., this noncooperation, nonviolent. That did not help. But he influenced the public opinion against them.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: All over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Hitler also did. Phāṇsa lāge dubudh bage: "If five men combine together, even the ghost will go away." (laughs) So everyone was against the Britishers. How they can keep their...? And nature's law also. They exploited the whole world for the benefit of few persons in London, and that is very bad.

Gurudāsa: You told me they wanted to be paid in gold by the Home Bill just to deplete the economy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Home Bill. Because I was student of economics. So Home Bill. Home Bill means all the Englishmen were engaged in India, either government, railway, industry, factory, and so on, so on, so on. Whatever... They have got some charges. So all the bills were sent to London, and they made a Home Bill. Their home is in England, so they won't take payment here. They'll take payment at home. And the government there, they'll present the whole bill to India and debit India's account in gold. That means, other words, all the payments which were to be made to the Englishmen in India, they were paid at home in gold.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmuja. (?) And some sweet scent also.

Gargamuni: Yes. They're very nice. We ate so many of them. (Hari-śauri preaching to someone in background:)

Hari-śauri: Because He's the Supreme Person. You're worshiping Indira Gandhi or in America they're worshiping Nixon or Ford. In Britain they're worshiping someone else. Everyone is worshiping someone who is better than he is. You may go to work and worship your boss because he'll give you a better pay check.

Prabhupāda: That is preaching. (chuckling with devotees)

Gargamuni: I read in the paper. They're having elections in March.

Prabhupāda: Karachi?

Gargamuni: No, here, here in India. They're holding election. Because of the emergency, they had banned the election.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: In Assam there is excellent field.

Prabhupāda: Assam.

Gargamuni: Yes. They're all Vaiṣṇava. They worship Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Especially in Manipur.

Gargamuni: Yes. Especially in Manipur. There we could not go, though. Our men were not allowed to... They could not get a permit. They got as far as Shillong. They did fifteen standing orders in a few days there. They were only there for a few days. That used to be a British capital.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: Shillong.

Prabhupāda: Shillong, yes.

Gargamuni: A very beautiful city, they said. And they sold books to at least one dozen book stores. They took Bhagavad-gītās. They did very well in Assam. In ten days they did twenty-six standing orders in three cities, Gauhati, Shillong and then Siliguri in northern Bengal.

Prabhupāda: This is very much astonishing that they do not touch religious book, but our books secure. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Brahmānanda: Yes. That's one thing. Like Kenya, they are more sensible. They see what happened in Uganda. Uganda's economy is very bad.

Prabhupāda: Finished.

Brahmānanda: So they will not do the same thing.

Prabhupāda: They must be intelligent persons. Otherwise how he can... The Britishers, they took away these Indians to organize Africa. Otherwise, they conquered, but the Indians organized.

Brahmānanda: They were all the administrators.

Prabhupāda: Yes. After all, Kṛṣṇa is there. He'll look after. So so far we are concerned, there is no disturbance.

Brahmānanda: Oh, no. No.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then develop. We are getting good place without any monetary difficulty.

Brahmānanda: Then Mombassa, the leader of the community there, he has pledged to collect all the money for buying this big house, and the house is very nicely situated right in the Asian area. And he's a big contractor. Also they will do all the alterations. So this is another good opportunity.

Prabhupāda: If I go, they will have objection?

Brahmānanda: No, I don't think so. You mean the immigration? I don't know.

Prabhupāda: No, no, last time... Not last time. Before that.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: I know. We'll be doing that at Māyāpur, but we all want to follow what your direction is.

Prabhupāda: So give me detailed statement. I shall... (break) All right.

Hari-śauri: Their ideas run similar, that they wanted to... Their so-called philosophy was that all the working people should be supplied sufficient foodstuffs and there shouldn't be any capitalism and..., like this.

Prabhupāda: The Gandhi's philosophy is to wipe out the capitalist, Britishers, and his philosophy also, the same.

Satsvarūpa: But one was nonviolent.

Prabhupāda: That is only pretext.

Rāmeśvara: You have already defined violence as "Anything which does not save a man from repeated birth and death, that is violence."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Violence, I take it in this way, that you have got right to possess this. If I do not allow you to possess, that is violent. Somehow or other, I check it, and that is violence.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Every gentleman should have a valuable library of these. That we want. Then our preaching is successful.

Hari-śauri: Once people recognize the worth of spiritual literature, then they'll purchase. Just like they sell these Encyclopedia Brittanicas from house to house.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri:...on the basis, "You've got so many children. They need this knowledge and education for when they go to school." So they purchase whole volumes.

Prabhupāda: Introducing as study book in higher colleges, universities, text book, then it will be... What is the use, a so-called scholar having a Ṣaṭ-sandarbha? And this has been failure... Our one Godbrother, he did. Simply he printed. It was not sold, and then it was mishandled, distributed like anything.

Hari-śauri: What was that?

Prabhupāda: That Ananta Vāsudeva, my Godbrother, he printed so many Gosvāmī literatures, but it was not successful.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: An expert in sleep.

Prabhupāda: Anything. Śarīra nā mahāśaya, yā saha mithaya saha (?) There is a Bengali proverb that the body is very nice. If you practice something, it will tolerate. Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) And whatever plan he's making, it will be all frustrated. That is the whole history. Big, big emperor, big, big politicians, they have tried. Roman Empire, the Carthagian Empire, Greece Empire, Egyptian Empire, and Mogul Empire, British Empire—all frustrated. It will never be successful. For a few days, hundred, two hundred years or five hundred years, it may go on. So real plan is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything is successful. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of false prestigious position, trying to be happy without God... That is not possible. Throughout the history you study. So many rascals have tried. The Napoleon, the Hitler, the Gandhi, this, that. What they have achieved? Nothing. If we honestly study their lives and activities, what they have achieved? Hm? Do you think they have achieved anything?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: They simply wasted their time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time. Therefore this is the best service, to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness for the human society and send them back home, back to Godhead. This is the best service.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: Politics means always fight between the kṣatriya and kṣatriya.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Still, actually, with this nonviolence method, could get them, I mean, get the Britishers out from India.

Prabhupāda: No, you are not... Violence method. It is the Subash Bose's organization.

Guest (1): Said... That has got some...

Prabhupāda: No, it is circumstantial. Circumstantially means the Britishers were not at all concerned about the non... They knew that "We..."

Guest (1): Had to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: INA. He made this... And the soldiers were voluntarily surrendering.

Guest (1): (Prabhupāda chuckling) Ah, many. No, Subash was, had got a great personality.

Prabhupāda: When the Britishers saw, "Now the soldiers are coming in national movement. There is no hope. Better break this and go peacefully so that our business may not be disturbed, our relation may not be disturbed. Make a Commonwealth and so on, so on, hodgepodge. And do as much harm as possible dividing Pakistan and Hindustan, all the food in Pakistan, East Bengal and West Pakistan, gehun(?) and rice." And this Hindustan in starvation, because they were getting gehun(?) from Punjab and rice from East Bengal, and that is stopped. They very clever. Greatest harm they did. And in politics made in such a way that these two people, Hindustan and Pakistan, always fight. So they have gained. You have not gained. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. They made so bitter relationship that they will perpetually fight. That is Gandhi's qualification. They are so great diplomats that "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous. And give all the food to the Pakistani, so they will starve. Let them eat coal." The Hindustan has got coal mine. "So they will suffer for industrial supply, and they will suffer for food. And they will fight." British diplomats are very clever. Gandhi even offered that "Don't divide India. You better give it to Jhinna." But this commission, this Patita Lalan(?). "No, no," said, "It is... Otherwise, there will be conflagration of always fight. Let it be settled." Gandhi went to this point, that "If you think that without division India will be chaos, so you better give it to Jhinna in the hand. Don't give it to me." But they wanted division.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Guest (1): That is a British policy.

Prabhupāda: They wanted this division.

Pradyumna: Gandhi was very much against division.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Division means that what remains India? Formerly India was India, Burma, Ceylon. They never divided, divided. They wanted that "Divide, divide, divide, and let this rascal have a small plot of land."

Guest (1): No, even they made it, all the states, independent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to make their choice: "You can join either Pakistan or India."

Guest (1): Or remain independent also.

Prabhupāda: They wanted to make nil India. The Hyderabad state was given choice. Kashmir was given choice, whichever, Hindustan or Pakistan. That is still going on, the Kashmir.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.

Satsvarūpa: Politics.

Prabhupāda: Government.

Satsvarūpa: International government.

Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?

Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.

Prabhupāda: Ajāmila story, that was in Kanpur. Very, very old city. Kanpur, Mathurā, they are very old cities. Allahabad, Prayāga. Prehistoric. Manipur. (end)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So make that arrangement. We shall go. Very good.

Gargamuni: And maybe from there, on our way by road, we know some people in Shillong. And maybe from Imphal you can go to Shillong for some programs, in Shillong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: 'Cause that is important city, very big city.

Prabhupāda: Shillong is Assam.

Gargamuni: In Meghalaya

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's now Meghalaya. Yes.

Gargamuni: Now Meghalaya. But it used to be a British capital. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the children. They're not attacking the children. Otherwise they cannot keep four ferocious animal in a place. They'll fight and they will kill one in order to... You were at that time there?

Nanda-kumāra: No. I was in...

Prabhupāda: So you keep this later on, do the needful. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Bhāgavata: How did Subash Bose get from India to Germany?

Prabhupāda: That is also political. He was, what is called, interned at home.

Bhāgavata: By the British. Kept in his house.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So there was the minister Nizamuddin, I think, he helped him to go out. He was going for evening walk with police force and other. So it became accustomed. Police became lenient, in the meantime slipped. And in a dress of a Kābuli, Kābuli-wālā, Pāṭhan he crossed India. In this way he went there.

Bhāgavata: I heard he took the dress of a Muslim?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is called... Yes. This is called pāṭhan. So after going outside India, he organized this INA, Indian National Army. And Hitler helped him. Tojo also wanted to help him, but he had a plan.

Bhāgavata: Different motive. So Hitler, he had no...

Prabhupāda: No Hitler actually helped him, all the soldiers. And then the Sikh soldiers and Gurkha soldiers voluntarily surrendered to join INA. And this information obliged the Britishers to go away. Then "Now the army is joining national movement, so there is no hope." The Gandhi's noncooperation, the clerks' noncooperation the, some of these teachers' noncooperation what do they care for? But when they saw that "The soldiers are now going to join this non..." Gandhi diagnosed the disease rightly, that "The Britishers are here on account of our cooperation. Without this cooperation, they'll go away." That's a fact. So his noncooperation movement was... It was a good trick, but actually he did not succeed. And this movement succeeded. That "Now he's organizing Indian soldiers for national movement. There is no chance."

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Some were, not all. And the Muhammadans, the could not convert any gentleman to Muhammadanism. Maybe one or two, say. Very... And similarly, Christian also. No high-class man became Christian. One or two. That is for some other purpose. Just like in Scottish Churches College, the Christian Indians were given more preference. There was one Mr. Raya. He would not speak in Bengali. Even if some Bengali student would like to talk with him Bengali, he would answer in English. (laughs) He was so sharp. (Bengali) (Hindi) You understand Hindi any of you? There is a song in the Howrah Bridge, pontoon bridge. So when this Howrah Bridge..., not this bridge. Up to 1900... When my daughter was married, in 1941, up to that time there was a bridge connecting Howrah and Calcutta, pontoon bridge. That we were seeing from childhood, from our birth. So this was an astonishment in India. They wrote song, (Hindi), that "How wonderful bridge this sāheb company...," because India was being governed by East Indian Company... After mutiny, Queen Victoria took charge. Otherwise the British government was known as Company Raja Sahib, East India Company. So the East India Company, they constructed this temple, er, bridge. So there is a song, (Hindi), like that. So this East India Company... Therefore this railway was known, "East India Railway." That is the first beginning of railway, from Calcutta to Burdwan, beginning of Ind... There was no railway in India.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think about 1928, long ago, because about twenty years ago there was centenary, hundred years. So the local produce was not exported. Everything was cheap in the village because you have to consume. Whatever is produced in the village you have to consume. And these Britishers, they introduced railway and drew everything in the village to the town. And they would not sell in the village because they would get good price in the city. Otherwise in the village, everything was very cheap, very, very cheap-milk, vegetables, rice, dāl, everything. And the Britishers, they had no food. They have got only the potato. In England what they produce? No food. So everything was exported. Their policy was to supply manufactured goods and take raw materials from India. So they supplied cotton goods. They saw that all Indians are using cotton cloth. Iron they introduced. They introduced railway line, all iron, the carriage, the wheel, the road. Everything was... In this way they became prosperous. And the Indian people, they saw... They were educated because they are fond of going to pilgrimage by walking. They would go... Suppose from here, Navadvīpa, one has to go to Vṛndāvana. He would make his will, because he does not know whether he'll come back or not. Long distance, thousand miles, you have to go by, on leg. They used to go. So they were advertised that "No. Now you'll have not to walk. The Company, they're making very easy going railway." So they received it, "Oh! (Hindi)" (laughs) But their idea was to draw all the raw materials from villages and send it to England.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they advertised, "Now you can go..."

Prabhupāda: "Now you can go to tīrtha by nice railway."

Brahmānanda: British Railway.

Satsvarūpa: Company.

Prabhupāda: And they thought, "Oh, how beneficial the English, British Company. They're giving us so much facility." And English education, they wanted to conduct their office affairs. They required some clerk. They did not want any highly educated. "Work here—ABCD—that's all. 'Yes, no, very good.' Bas." (laughs) So... And as soon as you learn "Yes, no, very good," you get fifty rupees' salary. So they gave up living in... That time fifty rupees is now five thousand. Yes. So they all entered school, English education—"ABCD, yes, no, very good. Bas." And this is British policy. Otherwise India was very happy.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Chānā?

Prabhupāda: No. Here is something here.

Hari-śauri: Rasagullā, yes.

Prabhupāda: If I require, I'll take. So Gandhi discovered, and the discovery was there Surendranath Ban... That they're exploiting us, so noncooperate. They are ruling over us by our cooperation, so let us noncooperate." But that is a foolish policy. Poverty-stricken country, how they can noncooperate? That was not successful, but this program, Subhash Bose's tit-for-tat, military, that was successful. They're keeping our men as soldiers and police, and by their strength they're ruling over India. And Subhash Bose made a plan—the soldiers and police will noncooperate. They'll join his INA. And when they began to join Indian National Army, these intelligent Britishers could understand, "Now it is no more possible. With whose cooperation, we shall kick?" Then they made a friendly settlement. Friendly means "Divide it so that they'll perpetually fight, and let us go."

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: That was Churchill? Churchill's policy?

Prabhupāda: At that time not Churchill. Attlee, Attlee was Prime Minister.

Brahmānanda: In Africa, Nehru, he was instructing the African leaders also how to get...

Prabhupāda: Freedom.

Brahmānanda: Freedom. So they all allowed the Indian example. So the British, they were very resentful against the Indians.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now British making "Drive away. Drive away the Indians."

Brahmānanda: They became the leaders of the independence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even now they are still resentful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even now they're trying to drive them out of England.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Oh, yes. They're offering some compensation, that "Take some money and go away." Indians are prosperous in England.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're more intelligent 'cause they know about the soul. They care about the person more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I know. In England they like Indian doctors. And last time, when I was in London, the Civil Surgeon, he was a Bengali. This Aurobindo's father, he was a medical practitioner. Aurobindo was born in London. He was English-born, yes. His father, Dr. Monmohan Ghosh, he was medical man there. So although he was British-born, he became enemy of the British. (drinks medicine?) Very bad medicine. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means good. I know when I was going to get that operation I didn't want to go to America. I would rather have gotten it here, even though the machines may not have been so modern, the fact that the Indian doctors were here was more reassurance than the Americans. They are very...

Prabhupāda: Careless.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is brahminical culture. They don't want it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. When the...

Hari-śauri: They don't have any culture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the British came here, they saw people sitting on the floor, they said, "Oh, uncivilized."

Prabhupāda: No, no. The British policy was that "If you keep the Hindus as Hindu, it will not be possible to rule over them." That was their policy. Therefore, from the very beginning childhood, everything Indian condemned.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is the same mentality in America now. They are seeing us... Just like the gurukula, their opinion of gurukula—"Oh, children are getting up early? Forced to get up early? Forced to eat on the floor? Not being given proper diet?"

Hari-śauri: "Don't sleep on beds?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same mentality as the British had when they came here.

Prabhupāda: But India, there is no such objection.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda:

sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor

vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane

karau harer mandira-mārjanādiṣu

śrutiṁ cakārācyuta-sat-kathodaye

(SB 9.4.18)

Very good. So everything is there. So let me take prasādam. Then we can talk some more.

Rāmeśvara: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Jayatīrtha: One more thing. This is the first British BTG.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very nice. I did not see this picture?

Rāmeśvara: It is a new painting for Bhāgavatam 1.2., First Canto, Part Two. Parīkṣit painted it.

Prabhupāda: It is an American printing?

Jayatīrtha: This is British.

Prabhupāda: This is British.

Rāmeśvara: They printed it in England. How many copies?

Jayatīrtha: One hundred thousand copies.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Competition. (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Independence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Independence from Great Britain. So that is not a very popular matter. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's actually a fact. There are a number of articles occasionally which are more American orientated. He felt that that was a strong point.

Hṛdayānanda: Also it's cheaper.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's cheaper.

Hṛdayānanda: He's printing twenty-four pages only. So Britain House...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very nicely done, very nice.

Hṛdayānanda: He's got a very low price.

Brahmānanda: He doesn't have the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam included.

Prabhupāda: That he should. That is not American or English. (laughter) Next issue, they can add. Where is Jayatīrtha Prabhu? So your South America, there is some trouble?

Pañcadraviḍa: No. No trouble. Just in Argentina. The trouble is finished now. We're out.

Prabhupāda: Trouble is finished?

Pañcadraviḍa: And we're out. (laughter)

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is very fine, but there is no Bhāgavata?

Jayatīrtha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's only being published quarterly...

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayatīrtha: ...and we thought to publish one section every three months, people would lose the track of the thing. That's why we... The British economy is so bad that we had to give fairly inexpensive literature. So it's either a question of printing sixteen pages color and eight page Bhāgavata, or twenty-four pages color. We couldn't do twenty-four pages color and eight pages Bhāgavata. We thought that since it is quarterly...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So you have printed one...

Jayatīrtha: One hundred thousand.

Prabhupāda: It is going on? Hm?

Jayatīrtha: Nicely.

Prabhupāda: So one hundred thousand you'll have to sell within three months.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They will not allow.

Jayatīrtha: No. I don't think so. It's a safety thing, they say. The street is such... And they won't stop the traffic, so the traffic is still going on.

Brahmānanda: Has there been any accident on the previous ones?

Jayatīrtha: Well, that argument won't work on the British bureaucracy. There hasn't been any accident in the past, nor in the future there will be any accident. They... Simply they don't want a big cart.

Prabhupāda: But Wembley quarter is not good.

Jayatīrtha: No, that quarter is not so good. There may be other quarters where they'd do it, but...

Hṛdayānanda: New Dvārakā comes down to(?) San Francisco.

Prabhupāda: We can make another Ratha-yātrā from Bhaktivedanta Manor to Wembley and other places.

Jayatīrtha: Hm. Actually we were thinking to have... If we kept a small cart and had Ratha-yātrās, one in London, one in around Birmingham area, there's a lot of Hindus in that area that will come. One in the north around...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayatīrtha: Yes, this is not a nonviolent picture.

Prabhupāda: I do not know how he wanted to draw nonviolence from this idea. This is going on, distorting the real fact. Politics without violence is impossible. There is a Bengali proverb, Naste base gun tata:(?) "A girl has come to the stage for dancing, and she is pulling her veil." (laughs) She has to dance freely, and what is the use of...? Nasta base gun tata.(?) In politics nonviolence, there is no history. The Britishers took it an opportunity to continue their ruling.

Mahāṁśa: He wasn't even political man, because politics means there has to be violence.

Prabhupāda: No, impartially studying, he endeavored for upliftment of the South African Indians, South Africans, yes, Johannesburg.

Brahmānanda: In Durban he started.

Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.

Jayatīrtha: None.

Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And you did not send to the reporters and the...? No.

Hari-śauri: Did you give these figures to the reporters at the airport?

Rāmeśvara: Well, we want to have a press conference tomorrow.

Gargamuni: We're going to have... At the Calcutta Book Fair we finished decorating our pandal. It promises to be very successful. We're just opposite the Americans, who have spent fifty thousand rupees, the American Embassy. And next door to us is the German Embassy, and on the other side is the British Embassy. So we're in a very good spot, and we'll have all our books. We'll have the displays as well as the movie, the BBT movie, and we have our men there, who will take orders and sell books. It starts tomorrow afternoon. And we'll have a press conference also and release these figures.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...the varṇāśrama established, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-division, scientific division of the society. Ideal state. Just like the legislative assembly. They should be composed of men with complete brahminical culture. And the ministers, president, they should be kṣatriya, and the productive, vaiśyas, and balance śūdra, worker. Unless an ideal class of men is on the top of the state to give advice—just like Britishers, they assemble Parliament—there cannot be any improvement to the human society. All nonsense and rascals, simply by votes go to be member of the Parliament. They assemble. What they know? What they'll do? The whole world is mismanaged because there is no brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindā... I am proposing this because Kṛṣṇa consciousness means namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. That must be... The state must be in favor of brahminical culture and cow protection. Then everything will be all right. So Manipur is small state. If they agree, the leaders of the... It is not politics. It is betterment of the situation. And without brahminical culture, all these third-class, fourth-class, loafer class, simply by votes hooks and crooks and becomes president, Nixon and so on. Where is the betterment? It will never be.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And recruit Indian scientists. Make it. It will be very nice. Let us go to Bombay and organize.

Rūpānuga: Because India now has the bomb, they are respected.

Bali-mardana: Atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: No, Indian people are more intelligent. There is no doubt about it. I... At least I see that during British period there were so many railway collisions. Now it is not there.

Bali-mardana: So many what?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Railway collisions, and now there is none with the Indian drivers. Oh, yeah. We don't find... Although the roads are horrible here and there's no lights, there are very few accidents.

Prabhupāda: That I have studied already, that British period, occasionally so many railway accidents. But the Indian people, since svarāja, I see no railway accidents. And they are being managed, these railway lines, by śūdra class, less-intelligent class. So they are so intelligent.

Rūpānuga: Compared to the British.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They sent their best men here.

Prabhupāda: The fireman, Indian driver, the signal man, they are not very high class men.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): I think they should be invited here to see what is being done.

Prabhupāda: No, they know it. Study the whole history of the world. What the big, big leaders have done? They are not new leaders. Before them, all over the world there were big, big leaders. Napoleon promised so many things. At last, he had to drink horse's urine and die. When he was captured by the Englishmen he wanted water and he was given horse urine. Envisioned, "I shall make my promise, the most important stage." The Britishers, so many, Gladstone, Churchill, Lloyd George(?), British Empire. Have they done any benefit? Indira made plan, Nehru family will be English terrorist. Now what is her position? So they studying history. Still, they are promising. Mūḍha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the great saintly persons, their works have done good for generations in thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Become rājarṣi, try to understand what Kṛṣṇa says. Duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. They will manufacture. Morarji Desai, he promised within ten years. Whether he will live ten years? He is already eighty. So this is the time for promising? This is the time for retiring for understanding Kṛṣṇa. You know. This man is rotting in the hospital, he's promising so many things.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Wonderful Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If simply they appreciate that Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, their life will be successful. This very simple thing. A child can do it. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, there is no doubt. Let them admit only. They will be pushed forward in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'll request only these big, big men that maintain this institution to attract intelligent persons from all over the world. And you do all nonsense, whatever you like, but maintain this. And if possible, after retirement come and do practical something. What is this nonsense? Andhā yathāndhair upa... What he will do? They are promising so many rascal things. What you will do? What you have got? Indira promised so many things. Bluffed. What she can do? Now she is, herself, Indira Gandhi. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Īśa-trantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They want to do something. What happens? Gandhi, when he started nonviolence, "Within one year" And he dragged for fifty years. Twenty years in Durban and thirty years in India. Could not do anything. If you say that Gandhi could not do anything, people will be angry. But see, study the whole history. What did he do? Did the Britishers care for Gandhi's nonviolent movement? Pat him. "Let this rascal go on with his movement. We'll go on." That was the disagreement with Subhash Bose. Subhash Bose said, "Mahatmaji, they will never go by this nonviolence. You have to take to violence." He said that "I will never have independence, but I will not take it." Therefore he left India. When he organized that INA and when the Britishers felt the (indistinct), "Now the soldiers have joined," all hopes lost. They did not give up India for Gandhi's nonviolence.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yes, 3:30 on Monday. These M.P.'s are just here for a few days, and they have very busy schedule. So I have arranged for one man to come tomorrow. He can see you... (break)

Prabhupāda: So? Now, this nationalism idea, so you have trace out the whole history. By introducing this nationalism, what improvement gave? Nationalism, the leader, it began in Europe, the Romans. They wanted to spread. Where are the Romans now? Carthagian, old history, Egyptian, Grecian, then, later on, Moguls or then British. So where are these groups? "Combined together, exploit others." That was, that means, a gang of rogues. Rogues and thieves, they... And by doing that, what they have actually done? The Romans, now their broken buildings are there. And people go to see the fun, how they used to enjoy. What is that called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coliseum. That's the Greek Coliseum, they...

Prabhupāda: By keeping one lion and fighting him and it is enjoyed. What is this? What they have gained? In this way, the privileged... Is it not subject perception? What Napoleon has done? Or Hitler has done? Or Churchill has done?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But still, even government does not help, we can spend for it. So what is to be done, if you can arrange, we can send it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you be returning to Russia just now? Or what is your program?

Dr. Sharma: My program is in doldrums at present. I am going to be here up till June. In June I intend going to Britain for some time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: London?

Dr. Sharma: Yes, London.

Prabhupāda: So you see our temple there.

Dr. Sharma: Yeah, I have been to your temple in Buffalo. I was in your temple in Winnipeg, Canada.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those are very small.

Dr. Sharma: Yes, small ones. But Winnipeg is all... But it was all right for such a small, but very well maintained, very well maintained. In London I haven't gone, because I stayed far away from the city.

Prabhupāda: We have got two temples in London. One in the city, and one in the border of London. That is very big temple. Seventeen acres of land. George Harrison has given us that property.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have got two temples in London. One in the city, and one in the border of London. That is very big temple. Seventeen acres of land. George Harrison has given us that property.

Guests: (talking about George Harrison)

Dr. Sharma: No, you are mistaken. George Harrison is a different... Rex Harrison is a British actor.

Prabhupāda: George Harrison of the Beatle group.

Dr. Sharma: Beatle group, oh. Rex Harrison is an actor...

Guest (2): They are singers.

Dr. Sharma: No, that's a different. Because Harrison is more popular in Europe and West than Lata Mangeskar. Raj Kapoor they know. They know, I think more than George Harrison(?), Raj Kapoor is a most popular man in Soviet Union because of his films. And second is Jawaharlal Nehru. So they can make anybody popular or unpopular. Because there is only one paper. They write whatever they want. Unfortunately, the whole thing is in the hands of those (indistinct). They publish whatever they want. So this type of popularity is not real popularity. You cannot take the face value popularity. So I think this type of creating a drama or taking a film for educating about God, and then there will be some sort of a scientific discourse as if intellectual level that...

Prabhupāda: Scientific research...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How about that new film that Yadubara has just made? That's presenting everything as seemingly unreligious way. What is it called? "A Spark of Life" it's called. A new film. Are you going to be showing it here tonight, Yadubara?

Yadubara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe we could see it. That would be nice.

Dr. Sharma: I would like to know some such film they would popularize these things.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you show some film? Is it possible now?

Yadubara: To show it now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I think in... For culture, France, and for improvement, economic development, they have done in Germany.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Britain?

Prabhupāda: Britain is... They are shopkeepers. Hitler gave them this title, "Shopkeepers' Nation." That was his determination: "The shopkeepers' nation, I shall turn them again to be shopkeepers, not the empire holder." That he did. Although he was finished-Germany was finished on account of this—but they executed their determination, British empire finished. That they did. After the second war, British...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished.

Prabhupāda: Now they are poverty-stricken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So Hitler's grudge against the Englishmen, that is fruitful. Actually he owned the war.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now they are poverty-stricken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So Hitler's grudge against the Englishmen, that is fruitful. Actually he owned the war.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He won. He won the war.

Prabhupāda: Because that was his determination. "I shall finish this British nation. Everywhere they have got flag, all over the world, I shall finish." That he did. And Britishers saved because the Americans joined. Otherwise... Churchill, he removed all valuables from London to Canada, all papers, all gold stock, everything. There is a book about this. Just like when there is danger you rush to save some valuables. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's what you take first.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So British Empire, so many things in London, he all removed to Canada.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then, after the war?

Prabhupāda: Then, after war they might have brought again.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually they are very attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So let them be trained up and then go there and follow our instruction and develop. In the meantime you can take it. The Lord Clyde, a crewman in the ship, he developed a British empire in India, organization. He's an insignificant person. He established British empire.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Clyde.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From there we can also go to Burma.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: 'Cause that's the neighbor, it's only about ten miles from Manipur. It's close to Mandalay. Used to be... The kings of Manipur used to invade this Burma, especially Mandalay, to fight. So we can go to Burma from there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Dr. Sharma must have this Hare Krishna Land as the address.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is someone here? (?)

Prabhupāda: Come on. Give him one seat there.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And that is real happiness?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Not they are. And this was the British plan: "So they are driving away? All right, make such arrangement. They'll perpetually remain unhappy."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They knew they were losing, so they thought, "Let everyone lose along with us. No one shall..."

Prabhupāda: That is natural. "If you become my enemy, I shall be your enemy." That is everywhere. Material world means that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was shocked to see that the mangoes... Did you see the price that they're being sold for? They are now selling in the market here for one hundred rupees a dozen.

Prabhupāda: (in disbelief) Hm?!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One hundred rupees a dozen they are being sold for, and they are being sent to the Gulf states, to the Arabs, and the Arabs are paying up to five hundred rupees a dozen for Alphonso mangoes. Fifty rupees per mango they are willing to pay. So the newspaper commented that "It may be that the poor people will not eat mango this year." Mangoes are so costly, over double the cost of last year.

Prabhupāda: Fifty rupees, twenty-five rupees per mango—who will pay?

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That it is a fact.

Mr. Dwivedi: I could not appreciate him.

Prabhupāda: No, it is a fact. When Subhas Bapu... He was always pleading, "Gandhiji, these people are not to go by your nonviolence, and we have to take to violence." Gandhi would say, "I will not fight. Sva-rājya." Then Subash went outside India. Somehow or other, he organized. And when the Britishers saw that "The military force, they are joining national movement. Now it is no hope..." Because the Gurkhas and the Sikhs and other military races, they were cooperating with the Britishers, therefore they were maintaining. They could not bring soldiers from their country. And when they saw, "The soldiers are joining Subhas," they left. "Now independence." This is a fact. Otherwise Gandhi he was patting, "Mahatmaji, you are such a great man."

Mr. Dwivedi: In the... I used to meet in northly country in the late 20's, 1929 and '30, when Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru found League for Independence of India. Subhas Bapu was the second.

Prabhupāda: I was present in that meeting.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And the idea was to prove that Americans are better advanced in science than China and Russia. That was the only aim. Only for this purpose they spent three billions...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty billion. And I think also it keeps the people loyal to their... It's the same idea. If you're the best, then the people automatically follow you. "If we're the best nation, then all of our citizens will follow us, respect us, loyal to the nation because the nation is the best in the world."

Prabhupāda: That is admitted by others. Therefore the Britishers, they took shelter of the Americans when they were defeated in Europe. And the Americans, they have got a special leaning towards British. Mostly they came from British Isles. For colonization, Britishers are most forward.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In previous years.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Previous centuries. The Spanish also, Spanish and Portugal, Portuguese. And Dutch. They were also active. But British was the topmost. France, not so much, I think. Spanish did quite well.

Prabhupāda: India was discovered by the Portugal, Portuguese, Vasco de Gama. Pondicherry is Portuguese colony. Goa. Goa.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Goa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Goa. Pondicherry is in Goa?

Prabhupāda: No, near Goa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole thing was conceived by this Aurobindo.

Prabhupāda: He wanted to leave British possessions. No, Pondicherry was French.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, French. So that Pondicherry was Aurobindo's idea? What was the motive?

Prabhupāda: He wanted to become a famous yogi to bring the world atmosphere in order.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Complete failure.

Prabhupāda: Complete failure. Kṛṣṇa says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: (BG 8.15) "It is a place for suffering." This rascal wanted to make it for enjoyment. Everyone is trying. Everyone is trying to make the commode a very nice room.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

rabhupāda: If they want good. Separation on the religious consideration, that was the mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was...?

Prabhupāda: Great mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there are Muslims and Hindus here, no problem, in India.

Prabhupāda: And that sentiment was fanned by the Britishers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. (pause) Last night you translated only a little bit?

Prabhupāda: Not feeling at all well.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not feeling well at all.

Prabhupāda: It is being continued. It is being continued now and then.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Feeling ill. I really had a bad..., also, from these... I took these noodles, and I felt like they were sitting in my stomach without being digested.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another way he does... I can tell you some other things he does, too.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So we'll do the same things here, then.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: They created untouchables, repressed, sidual,(?) so many partition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who created them?

Prabhupāda: Britishers. Then, when Gandhi tried to accommodate them, then rupture between Hindu-Muslim, Muslim League, riot. To keep their kingdom they were doing... So many innocent persons were massacred. Anyāyena artha-sañcayan. The Britishers committed so many sinful activities. They will suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they're suffering for it.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Per mound. Very first class rice. So he was not going to sell. A few hours after, I went to purchase-fifty rupees. From six rupees. Government appointed agents to purchase it and stock it. So people, being harassed, they'll come to military. This was Churchill's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those British were very clever.

Prabhupāda: Artificially created a famine in India. I have seen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Bon Mahārāja was getting seven hundred rupees monthly. That's amazing. Your Guru Mahārāja had to send the money from India to the West. We... You're bringing the money, but for Bon Mahārāja he had to send the money the other way.

Prabhupāda: Every month, regularly. He was playing harmonium. And the report: "Swamiji is playing on harmonium." Therefore Guru Mahārāja became very much disgusted: "Call him back."

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the Americans are very friendly, very nice actually, in general. When I studied in California, I was a stranger, but everybody looked like a friend, very different from England. England is very conservative. They don't say hello, and different.

Prabhupāda: England, nonsense number one. Worst false prestige, England. In that respect, other countries are better. They had a British Empire. They are still puffed up. And they will stay there to continue British Empire. Now they are earning money for eating, showing British Parliament House. Now there is no business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They make money by tour of the Parliament House.

Prabhupāda: "Shopkeepers' nation." The Parliament has become a shop. Artificially they're maintaining an atmosphere of aristocracy. There is not... I talked with some of their Lords. Artificial. The have lost all prestige. Still, "I belong to the Lords' House." The priestly order, the Lord family, I talked with them. Simply artificial.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually you gave it up as useless. To talk with those priestly orders, I remember, you concluded, "This is a waste of time." They're not at all priestly.

Prabhupāda: They have no intelligence. Anyway, do something.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you know him, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No. He was also older than our father. But I have seen him in childhood, when I was ten, twelve years old. Very intelligent man, soft speaker. His... This Marconi's theory is his theory. The wireless... The thief has taken. They have stolen. And the British government gave credit to Marconi. He was very sad.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That everybody knows.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The wireless, there was a system. That was his discovery. He was very sorry. The British government stole the idea and gave the credit to Marconi. The Britishers, they always wanted to minimize the value of India, that "They are not civilized. We are present there to make them civilized."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very... The English were expert in diplomacy.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they paid.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Degraded, most. There is no principles. Formerly there was a standard principle. Then they fall down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But what did the British think of that principle?

Prabhupāda: British gave liberty about our culture and religion. They never interfered. That was their credit. They knew it. If they interfered with their internal affairs, then they will be lost. That was Queen. She guided them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were expert like that.

Prabhupāda: No, they were very good politician. (pause) I can say, in the British period there was no scarcity, and leniency. I recall the way. Didn't require... And when they like... With three hundred rupees they were so happy. Now you calculate that three hundred rupees means ten thousand. So where is that ten thousand rupees?

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Before, it is described, before human birth, monkey, either monkey or lion or cow. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Monkey's tamo-guṇa, cow is sattva-guṇa, and lion is rajo-guṇa. This is the last animal life before human life, gradually. Everything is described. Darwins want to take credit, (laughs) nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he could only see as deep as the body. He could not see it was the soul...

Prabhupāda: Hm. He was rascal speculator. He took the idea from the Vedic literature, and he wanted to take the credit himself, and the different hodgepodge theory, this is... Britishers took the idea from Vedic literature and presented in British way. Britisher wanted that "We are the monopolizers of all scientists, all big men." Sir Isaac Newton, then the, who is that, Darwin, big politicians, Gladstone, everything big-British. They wanted it. "British means all big men. Therefore we must rule over the world." All Lords, Sirs, and this and that... They wanted to prove, "The only big men of the universe, they take birth in England, and therefore we should rule over the world." (laughs) And this was their pledge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For a while they did a pretty good job.

Prabhupāda: No, artificially you can do for a while. Unless it is sound footing, it cannot stay. You can cheat some people for some time..., no, all time. You can cheat some people for all time, and all people for some time, not all people for all time. This is the... That was their business, to cheat some people for all time and cheat all people for some time. But not all people for all time. That is not possible.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, artificially you can do for a while. Unless it is sound footing, it cannot stay. You can cheat some people for some time..., no, all time. You can cheat some people for all time, and all people for some time, not all people for all time. This is the... That was their business, to cheat some people for all time and cheat all people for some time. But not all people for all time. That is not possible.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation) Britishers made a mistake. They made a empire, very good, but they did not rule for the people. They wanted to rule over the world for their own sake, London. Their policy was all big, big brain from England should go outside, earn money and bring in London, exploit. Therefore it is... Otherwise it was a very grand plan. They were very nice. This was suggested by one of their viceroy in India, Lord Curzon, that "India is a vast country, very cultured country. Don't try to exploit them. Better send one royal family member to become king here and rule as one empire. Don't discriminate." The others did not like the idea. "Make England's men king in India. The people in general, they like king. And rule over them and have good relationship." These rascals, they did not like.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if they had, though, nowadays they would have been kicked out.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if they had, though, nowadays they would have been kicked out.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even had they put in a king in the modern days, the tendency is to kick out the foreigners.

Prabhupāda: No, if they had ruled nicely, according to the Indian principles... The Muhammadans did it, and they ruled over eight hundred years. The Britishers could not do it. They could not rule over two hundred years. Within two hundred years finished. And during Muhammadan period there were many, many powerful Sikhs. Staying, they did not like to drive away the Muhammadans. Whole Rajputana was full of big, big kings. They could have thrown away them. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. The Rajput kings.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they did not do. They cooperated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Rajput is Rajasthan?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Akbar appointed this Mansingha, who has made these temples. He was commander-in-chief. Yes.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything equal. Taking bath, cleansing and worshiping, chanting...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't eat meat?

Prabhupāda: Most of them, they eat, but there are... They do not eat... Not meat. Fish. Meat-eating was introduced by the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: British.

Prabhupāda: ...Britishers. Otherwise, nonvegetarian in India means up to fish. (pause) In Gujarat still you'll find. One young girl... You see here that all young girls are carrying water, collecting. In the morning collecting water, cleansing the house, utensils, clothes, taking bath, then cooking, those girls. Their first business. Man's business is to earn money, go to the market, the necessities. Woman's business is take care of household affairs, children, and they have got engagement. And in the presence of father or elder brother or husband, a woman has to earn livelihood—that's a great insult.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Disgrace. That's disgraceful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. There was one building that they were constructing, and before finishing the building they were living in it, and you said, "This means this British Empire is finished. They cannot even afford to finish the building before living in it. This is a sign that they are not opulent at all." I remember you said that. They're not very opulent, the British.

Prabhupāda: No. Their opulence finished. Actually they're poor country. Simply by exploiting other countries they became rich. Otherwise they are... Naturally they are poor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Peasants. Didn't Hitler say something about that?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Hitler said they're...

Prabhupāda: "Shopkeeper's nation." Yes. Naturally they are very poor. They cannot produce anything. It is so cold.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. There was television girl. "What is the description of hell?" "Now, here is, London."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew! That must not have been a very popular statement.

Prabhupāda: No, he stopped immediately. Simply outwardly decorated, and it is hell. I told him. Actually that is, everywhere. No... Only cloud and that mist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the sun never sets in the British Empire.

Prabhupāda: But is always sets in London.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It never rose.

Prabhupāda: Setting of sunshine is monopolized by London.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So the Communist country they will be following.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'Any educational center interested in giving a complete education to its pupils should follow the example set by the University of California, the British Library, the Oxford University, and the University of Bombay, among many others, who have ordered sets of the BBT's encyclopedia. As an Indian, I am proud of the vast accomplishments of my fellow countryman, Swami Prabhupāda.' "

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe later on I can read some more of these to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They are very ecstatic. Yeah. Later on I'll read more to you. We haven't even touched this section. This is the list.

Prabhupāda: So send Gargamuni many thanks for arranging in the libraries. Kṛṣṇa is blessing him. Organize in Bombay office very nicely, and arrange for printing enough stock. All money collected should be invested immediately. This is giving me new life, all these. Somebody is proposing to give us some dairy land? Dairy.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the preaching? Alexander the Great? He was conquering, and as soon he went to conquer another place, the last place lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What happened?

Prabhupāda: Suppose I have conquered Bombay. Then I go to Karachi. In the meantime, Bombay is lost. That was being done, Alexander the Great. Means no proper management. Just like British Empire lost. They could not manage. So long they were managing well, it was going on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Too much expansion with not enough good management.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Similarly, we should not expand too quickly...

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...unless we have the proper management.

Prabhupāda: I am stressing, therefore, book selling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It advertises all your books. Plus, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I had signed a contract with the biggest mail-order house in India, called Mail Order Sales. And this week their full-page advertisement on the Bhagavad-gītā is reaching 25,000 households. Their ad wasn't ready, but they are sending it to me in few days. It's a very beautiful ad. They have a monthly newspaper called Mail Order News, and that they've given a whole page. But they pay for it. We give them a straight commission on sales. Just like in America you have Book of the Month Club and selling books by mail. This is very big. Plus we are now doing the Bhaktivedanta Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge. We are preparing a brochure just like this. This is a Brittanica Encyclopedia advertisement. So we're going to have your nineteen or twenty Bhāgavatams here. The artists are working on it and this is going to be sent to about thirty thousand households. These are just for households, not libraries or anyone, just as selling to businessmen and executives.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who's going to do this?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Mail Order Sales. It's a company that specializes in mail orders. This will be very good.

Prabhupāda: Everything you do, it is... Now, utilize. So one book has come only.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I've got three books. Two you can keep. One... I'll give one to Prem Yogi, Bhakti-prema Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is his name in there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, as the translator.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Translator? Anyway, it is the teachings.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) There is a... There was a great Bengali poet. He was very rich man, Micheal, Madhusūdana Datta. So he went to England, and because he was extravagant, he spent all his money. So he was in difficulty. He begged some money from his countrymen, help him. But nobody gave him. Only there was a big paṇḍita, Isvaracandra Vidyasagar. He gave him the money. He thought that "Such a big man is in need of money. Let me... He may pay or not." So after receiving that money, he thanked Isvaracandra Vidyasagar, that "You have got courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother." He was poet, so he gave these two examples: the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. So you are Englishman. You are famous for your forefathers' courage to expand British Empire. The America is also your creation. But everything in this material world deteriorates. That is not fault. But Englishmen were, at least formerly, famous for courage, enthusiasm, expansion of prestige. This Lord Clive was a crewman in a ship, and he established British Empire. So you have to show that Englishman-courage. So you have done something which has proved Englishman-courage. And go on doing it. That is your heritage. And two nice fields, Bangladesh and Nepal. Nepal is only Hindu free state, or it is called... Now India is also free.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That we can spare. Arrange for that, and make a stronghold there with the cooperation of government officials. I'll pay six hundred dollars. You'll get. I'll pay or anyone. I have got some money in London, also in America. So you have some bank account, and I shall advise Lloyd's Bank will send.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might like that. He's British, and the money will come from England.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a new twist. Usually they're always seeing our money coming from America, but his money will come from England.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think I have got six thousand pounds.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a good amount.

Prabhupāda: At least for few months I can continue. This is first business. Do it. And another point, that formerly the Britishers expanded empire. Now we have got better service. They... You expand the empire of consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is also the same view, but it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa has given you the ability. Do it enthusiastically with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Imperfect.

Satsvarūpa: The scientists are spending more and more time now on death with these weapons. There's more and more new bombs that they're making. So this is all they can do, is how to accelerate death.

Prabhupāda: Die.

Balavanta: Now one British physician has said that anyone over a certain age should be killed. Big, big physician. That is public, all over. He said "The old people will not like it, but the young people will accept my proposal."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he's older man.

Balavanta: He's young.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's young. If he were old, we could suggest that he should be the first.

Prabhupāda: What? What is? What is that?

Balavanta: Big British physician, he has proposed...

Prabhupāda: British?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: English. One British physician has proposed that now all old people should be killed to make room for enough young people.

Balavanta: He says they are useless in society. Actually they haven't taken sannyāsa, they're not preaching, so these old people are simply useless.

Prabhupāda: Actually they are useless. (laughter) So our challenge to this science society is all right? Hm? What do you think?

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tamils are poor men?

Haṁsadūta: Tamils? No, the Tamils were all the business centers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the reason.

Haṁsadūta: It was actually the Tamils who agitated for the British to get out, and once the British got out, then the Singhalese pushed out the Tamils because they're a minority. About three million Tamils to eleven million Singhalese. The economic and political situation is very, very deteriorated in that country.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of preaching can you do now?

Haṁsadūta: We can preach because we're not identified as Tamils or Hindus, because we are white, so that still attracts the people. We preach in public halls, rent hall...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they lifted the curfew.

Haṁsadūta: The curfew's over now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do the Singhalese take interest as much as the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, they do actually. Actually the Tamils in Śrī Lanka, they're all demigod worshipers. They worship Durgā and Gaṇeśa and Śiva. There's practically not a single Kṛṣṇa temple on the whole island. I was really surprised. Well, that's the situation. They're all demigod worshipers.

Prabhupāda: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So we failed to catch.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You must have been surprised when Prabhupāda didn't come out of the plane.

Śatadhanya: Surprised? Yes. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They arranged that special lift to take you out of the plane also. Remember when we went in the plane on British Airways from London? That way you don't have to get carried or bounced around, because it's a machine that goes up and down.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is on the, this road.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's very bad.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Which viceroy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which viceroy?

Girirāja: The last viceroy, Mountbatten. And he's very diplomatic in dealing with people. And when he meets with the Indians, they immediately respect him, just like in the old days. So I think he'll be a very good personality to have in the restaurant and guesthouse. People will be happy to meet him. He's tall, he has a nice British accent, and he's following our regulative principles. He's a devotee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I met him at Bhaktivedanta Manor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we were there. He came a couple of times, very nice gentleman. He's working without any salary. Simply he asked for a room, and he wants to devote his life. Real gentleman. He's more British than any Britisher I've ever met.

Prabhupāda: Forty years?

Girirāja: Well, he's about, I think, sixty years old now. And when he was a young man of twenty he was the aide-de-camp of the viceroy. And I think he was also the secretary to the governor of Punjab when it was under the British.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He met with Gandhi and all of these other leaders.

Girirāja: Then, just after I left... Before that, I spoke to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, and he was arranging for Mahāṁśa Swami and Mr. Polareddy to meet the President of India to invite him to be the chief guest because Mr. Polareddy of Hyderabad knows the present President. And then, so far as the publicity for the opening, we felt that we should actually fix up the chief guest first, because if some big person like the President comes, that will be an important part of the wording of the invitation and the other publicity.

Prabhupāda: So finishing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Construction?

Girirāja: Well, the building was not finished.