British (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"britain" |"british" |"britisher" |"britisher's" |"britishers" |"brittanic" |"brittanica" |"brittanicas"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: That is animalism. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. "I belong to some particular body, and he belongs to the same body or same nation. Therefore we become..." Instead of "I," we become "we."

Acyutānanda: Recently there was an atomic scientist whose all major education was in America and Europe, and he won a Nobel Prize award...

Prabhupāda: That is the tendency everywhere. The Britishers.... You go to the Parliament and Westminster Abbey. They have kept all the statues of Sir Isaac Newton and this Churchill, this.... Mean, they want to show that "It is only our nation who has produced all these intelligent persons."

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Then why do you use in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness the Hindu caste marks, Hindus caste marks and tilakas? This is all Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: No, this is not Hinduism. Appears like Hindu. Just like you appear like an Indian sannyāsī, but you are not Indian.

Acyutānanda: The judge is wearing a white wig and a British suit. He's not British either.

Prabhupāda: No, we are clearly stating Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Harikeśa: Yes, but Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god.

Prabhupāda: That is your definition. Kṛṣṇa doesn't say.

Harikeśa: But my definition counts 'cause I'm in charge.

Prabhupāda: You can do any nonsense. That is.... Therefore you have to be taken to the court, that "How you can..."

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe that's the one. What is the size of the Caitanya Matha? That's the biggest one here? The biggest in Bengal? The Caitanya Matha temple, a hundred and ten foot, is the biggest temple in Bengal. There's not many big temples here... But that church is bigger in Chowringhee. I think that church that the British built...

Prabhupāda: Chowringhee?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Near Victoria Memorial, that church?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. St. Paul's Cathedral.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that's higher than...

Madhudviṣa: Oh, yes, that's big.

Bhavānanda: Also in Krishnanagar, big Catholic church.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Five minutes. (break)

Jayapatāka: ...festival devotees will pay one rupee.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Why they look inquisitive? No commentary. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Cent percent cheater beginning from the top. They have lost their own culture, Vedic civilization, and they are not competent to earn properly. They must be cheater. Beg, borrow, steal. They have lost their own culture; therefore they have no one honest. Formerly Indians were so honest that after one man's death, his son comes... Even we have seen it in childhood. "Sir, my father took from you the five thousand rupees. So now he is dead, so I have come to pay you." So he says, "I never seen my account that your father has taken five thousand rupees from me. I cannot take it." This is India. One man is offering him five thousand, that "We are debtor to you. Please take it." And he says, "No, I don't find in my account that your father took five thousand. I cannot take it." And now they are cheating. This is India's position. Even in our childhood I have see that Mr. C. R. Das, his father died insolvent some lakhs of rupees. So when he became a big barrister he called every one of them that "My father died insolvent. Now I have got money. You take it." This was India. And now they have become cheaters. This is svarāj, independence. Even in British times there was C. R. Das who liquidated the debts of his insolvent father. "My father died insolvent. He could not pay, so he declared insolvency in the court. Now I have got money. You take it." This was India.

Morning Walk -- February 11, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Samosa?

Hṛdayānanda: Samosa.

Prabhupāda: What is that samosā? Our samosā?

Hṛdayānanda: No. (break) ...two British planes came with medicine and they wouldn't let the planes land because they have some diplomatic quarrel with England. So they preferred their own people die to save the diplomatic purpose. Also another country sent supplies to help, and they said that it was stolen. They don't know where it went.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hṛdayānanda: Another plane from another country came, and when they delivered all their supplies they said that everything was stolen. They don't know where it went.

Prabhupāda: Stolen?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. The medicine was all stolen. Also the government was making many people work hard due to the disaster, and when the people...

Prabhupāda: So they are suffering from disaster. Again work hard. Just see how benefit.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Bengali culture was very much adored. Surendranath Bannerjee started the political movement, and he was so well known. Even in Parliament, the Englishmen, English M.P.'s, he... They were speaking of Surendranath. They used to say "Surrendered not." "Here is a person who is not 'Surrender not.' He'll never surrender. 'Surrender not.' " Actually, the British Empire was startled by the agitation of Surendranath Bannerjee. The Congress was started by Surendranath Bannerjee, this one Congress. Two Bengali and one Englishman started this Congress sometimes in 1887, 1867, like that. So in our childhood we used to see that Surendranath Bannerjee was being elected president of Congress almost every year. And Gandhi came into prominence when Surendranath Bannerjee surrendered. Formerly he was not surrendering. But the government gave him the first ministership, that "You become minister." So he became a government man. Then Gandhi came in prominence. Surendranath Bannerjee was the first minister in India. (break) ...in our childhood, if he would speak, thousands, thousands men will gather in Calcutta. (break) ...Surendranath Bannerjee Road.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: At least five lakhs he was earning. So the Congress resolution was that "noncooperation," so "Boycott British court. We are not going on." So resolution that everyone should give up practice of law in the British court. Resolution. So C. R. Das did not like that idea. He said that "I am earning fifty thousand. I can give the whole amount for Congress propaganda. Why you are asking me to give up this practice?" So the resolution was, "No, we should noncooperate. We don't want money. We should noncooperate." So when... He fought in the meeting that "This should be withdrawn." So it was not withdrawn. Then he resigned. Then he resigned. He became practically poverty-stricken, because he was earning fifty thousand rupees per month, and he had no practice, and he was not keeping any money in the bank. When he resigned, then some of his friend, Muhammad Ali... He was also one of the prominent members. He asked, "Mr. Das, what is your bank balance?" So he replied, "I do not know what is my bank balance, but I know I am debtor to the bank by two lakhs." The bank was giving him credit, so this was his position. So my point is that when the... He fought his best that "This resolution should be withdrawn, boycott of British court," but it was not done. But although he was very strong protester, still he had to do it. This is modern democracy. If the majority votes is in favor of something, even if I do not like it, I'll have to accept it. That is, of course, the so-called democracy. That..., we do not accept that. Our obedience is to the spiritual master. So in this way we should... If there is any misunderstanding, this should be adjusted and we should work wholeheartedly, because our responsibility is very great.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Pañca-draviḍa: As far as trade goes, actually Hong Kong belongs to China. It's on lease to the British government. The lease expires in twenty years or so.

Siddha-svarūpa: Eight years.

Pañca-draviḍa: Eight years. But the thing is, it's difficult for them to assume or take part in Hong Kong because it represents something like several million capitalists, which they have no use for in their country. For thirty years they've been training people in Communism. Their whole culture is centered around that Chinese language. Our books are in English, but their whole culture is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our Chinese Gītā is coming out. It should be ready in two weeks.

Prabhupāda: It is not our policy that the whole country will be on our side. That is not.... At least some of them may be interested. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yaśodānandana Mahārāja says that the Chinese Bhagavad-gītā is ready for publication.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's at the printer. It will be ready in two weeks.

Revatīnandana: Another interesting thing about China is because they have such a huge population, in order to feed the population they've had to turn to production of agricultural products rather than meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only way. That is the only way. If you want to make them happy.... That we are preaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce grains. Everyone will eat nicely, and they will be happy.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No.... Oh.

Gurudāsa(?): Rāvaṇa's. Who stole it?

Madhudviṣa: The largest diamond in the world?

Prabhupāda: Well, the Britishers, they stolen so many diamonds from India.

Trivikrama: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Trivikrama: The whole British Museum.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole British Museum means stolen properties from many countries, that's all, especially in India.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Rādhāvallabha: No, they didn't die. A severe crash, though.

Prabhupāda: Don't you think the whole British nation is now ruined?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has crashed.

Prabhupāda: What do you want more? "But he has not suffered. He has simply died." This is the argument. He has suffered. But "No, no, there was no suffering. He has simply died." What is the more suffering than death? (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: When somebody is dying and his external consciousness is completely absorbed in all kinds of terrible bodily symptoms, how is it that a devotee remembers Kṛṣṇa? What is actually happening that he's able to remember Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Devotee generally remembers Kṛṣṇa. But even if he cannot, Kṛṣṇa will help him.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All of them are South African?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, actually, he's from South Africa and he's from South Africa. These two devotees are going down for the first time, and Jagat-guru was preaching there once before.

Prabhupāda: So they will get visa?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't require visa except for Jagat-guru. He's British, he's Canadian. He's South African boy. He's South African.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they don't require visa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only Jagat-guru dāsa, American.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So he'll get visa?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So all five, you are going?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, we have studied this South Africa. They like our movement. They are purchasing books. That is very good sign. Is it not? They are purchasing? Who are purchasing books? Educated circle?

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture. Our Vedic advice is that make life very simple. You must have some means of livelihood. Keep your body and soul together. So according to quality, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), there must be division and then simple life. The real aim is tam abhyarcya, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everyone is.... Brāhmaṇa is guiding, kṣatriya is ruling, and vaiśya is producing food, and śūdra, they have no brain; they are helping. In this way the society is very peaceful, and everyone is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is India's civilization. Now, due to this association of the rākṣasas... Even up to Mohammedan time this civilization was being continued. Mohammedan did not touch the Indian culture. Sometimes by, what is called, fanaticism, there was fight. Not like this. The Arjuna.... Aurangzeb began this. Otherwise, from, what is called, the first emperor? Akbar. Akbar, Jahanghri, then Shajahan, there was no trouble. They did not touch. Even there was some marriage connection. They want to remain as kṣatriya king, that's all. The other things were not interfered. So instead of a Hindu kṣatriya, the Musselman kṣatriya. People were satisfied: "A kṣatriya... We have to work. Somebody must be king." So in this way the Indian people accepted the Britishers. "All right, you remain king. Don't interfere." But later on, to exploit the whole country, they began to plan.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is their grudge. When they see such exalted literature, they are envious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cut over?

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we can walk over this way? There's no water.

Prabhupāda: It was all manufactured by the Britishers. To keep their faith with other nations, they were protesting that "Why you are keeping India dependent?" So they were pleading that "We are making India civilized." That was their propaganda.

Rāmeśvara: "The white man's burden," they called it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (pause) Prabhupāda, wherever you walk, the water turns off.

Candanācārya: The entire Golden Gate park was cultivated by men.

Rādhāvallabha: Instead of planting grass by the roads, they are now putting green rocks. They figure it looks the same, and it saves money.

Kīrtirāja: They are also planting plastic grass in the middle of the road.

Hṛdayānanda: No opulence.

Rādhāvallabha: In Russia now they have declared one..., that it is a big crisis. Because their grains did not grow properly, they are not able to produce as much meat, so now one day a week everyone is forced to eat fish. So they are lamenting. They were describing how..., about the good old days were when you could go and buy an entire carcass.

Candanācārya: (break) ...country, build cities and then spend billions of dollars to make the city look like the country.

Prabhupāda: Carvita-carvaṇānām. Chewing the chewed, again and again. This is their position.

Room Conversation Excerpt -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Indian Man: ...got the British out.

Prabhupāda: Hitler one side, fought with the Britishers, smashed them. This is one cause. Another cause: Hitler helped Subhas Chandra Bose to organize I.N.A. Two causes, the Britishers to go away. Otherwise, Gandhi's noncooperation movement was started in 1917, and we got our independence in 1947.

Indian Man: Thirty years.

Prabhupāda: Thirty years he could not do anything. And Subhas Chandra Bose in 1940 or '42, he went out of India and organized this I.N.A with the help of Hitler, and the Britishers were obliged to leave India. What do you think? That is my estimation.

Indian Man: Yes, I think so too. Yes, and he is also...

Prabhupāda: And Hitler not only helped Subhas Chandra Bose to organize this I.N.A. organization, but by fighting with the Britishers, he smashed... The British lion was bandaged. There was a cartoon picture. I've seen in that way. The lion is lying down and bandaged, (makes some gestures) here and here and here, there, patched: British lion. (laughter) That's a fact.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In 1942 I have seen when war was going on, so, these Britishers wanted soldiers, so they created artificial famine. The people became in need of money, so they enrolled them as soldiers. I have seen it. There was no other way to get money to get commodities at higher price. Artificial famine. There was no food grains available, but black market it is available. Black market means more price, but they had no money. So to get this money, they enrolled as soldiers. This was Mr. Churchill's policy.

Rādhāvallabha: That's going on now in America. Previously they had to force men to join the Army because they had such a shortage. Now, because there are so few jobs, it is harder to get into the Army. Even volunteers, there are so many volunteers just to get a job that they have too many practically.

Prabhupāda: Even in Army there is no service? They don't want?

Rādhāvallabha: Now they want because they can't get a job.

Hṛdayānanda: More selective.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, the strange thing is that the fiercest racists in South Africa are the Boers, the Afrikaners...

Prabhupāda: That is Englishmen, Dutchmen, Dutchmen.

Dr. Wolfe: ...who were put down by the British before, and now they are the worst oppressors themselves.

Prabhupāda: These Dutchmen, Englishmen and Frenchmen were the pioneers of colonization. Spaniards also, Spanish. In America mostly the Englishmen came?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. English and French.

Prabhupāda: French.

Hṛdayānanda: Mostly English.

Prabhupāda: The Germans were not for colonization.

Dr. Wolfe: They were before World War I. They lost their colonies at the end of World War I. They lost Cameroon and Togo and East Africa. That is where Nairobi is now; Nairobi was German before.

Hṛdayānanda: Not so many colonies like the others.

Dr. Wolfe: Hm, they had quite a few, quite a few.

Prabhupāda: The Englishmen they have lost their colonies, all.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why? What is the difficulty?

Hari-śauri: Communists.

Hṛdayānanda: No, between the laborers and the management. They are having great, always strikes, and the British industry is becoming crippled.

Prabhupāda: And there is another problem, Irish problem. The Irish men, they are dropping bombs in London, in daytime. Creating always disturbance.

Gopavṛndapāla: I was in London just recently, and in the airport, where we distribute books, you cannot put your bag of books down because the police will come, hold you, and say, "You have a bomb in your bag." You must always keep it on your shoulder. And there are signs about every fifty feet, saying "Do not leave luggage unattended" because they are thinking anything which is unattended is a possible bomb.

Prabhupāda: London airport is very congested.

Gopavṛndapāla: Yes, very.

Prabhupāda: Very, very congested. Always thousands and thousands of men. If there is any such bomb explosion.... Life is becoming more and more insecure. The advancement of civilization is no relief for these other problems.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: It was bombed frequently, or just once or twice?

Prabhupāda: Almost daily. But it was meant for bombing the European quarters. So when the Britishers saw that "Now this Subash Bose has organized I.N.A...." I.N.A. was organized by Subash Chandra Bose. Outside India, all the Indians, they contributed money, especially from Singapore. Singapore, Hong Kong, this side..., all the Indians, they contribute sufficiently. And he got men from the fighting Indians soldiers. The Britishers, they were fighting with Indian soldiers, with Germany and Japan and others. So the contract with Hitler and Subash Bose was this, that "All the Indian soldiers which you arrest in the war, please give me them. Then I shall organize." So the soldiers, when they understood they're being arrested—"We shall go to Indian side"—they voluntarily surrendered. So Hitler, all others, Hitler and Japan, Tojo, arrest them and give it to Subash Chandra Bose, and he was organizing in Singapore.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: He had a large army?

Prabhupāda: Large or small, whatever; there was. But England had no soldiers. Whatever they did—fight—with the Indian soldiers, Gurkha and Sikh. Indian money, Indian soldiers, everything Indian—they were fighting. So when the Britishers saw that "The nationalism has come amongst the soldiers. It is not possible to maintain the Empire," they voluntarily gave indepen.... "Better give us good relations, and our business.... Make some agreement. But before departing, make them weak and divide Pakistan and India."

Rāmeśvara: That the British arranged.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they are doing these things all in.... Wales.... What is called? Ireland, Germany. That is their business: divide and rule. Before leaving India, immediately they partitioned. Burma was Indian. Ceylon was Indian. So they had already divided.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: You can change, but if you do not change for the real good, then time will come, another change, another change. That is going on. Just like in Russia they wanted to change. They brought in revolution. But what is changed? They are still begging grains from America. So what is the use of that change? If you have to beg from other country for your food, then what is the benefit of such change? So this is going on. One thing established, and again it is changed. That is described in the śāstra: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. Just like sugarcane. One has taken the juice by chewing and thrown it in the street, and somebody again takes it and chew it, what he will get it? It is already chewed. Experiment. So all, everything has been experimented. Big, big empires, big, big society, big, big nation. That Hitler, he wanted to make something big. Napoleon wanted to make something big. Nothing big has been done. Where is Napoleon? Where is Hitler? So these are all temporary attempts. It is sure to be failure. Because they do not know how to do things. That is the defect. They are simply imagining, concoction. Here is a practical and sure proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā. God comes and He's giving personal instruction, that "Do things like this." Your economic problem, your political problem, your social problem, everything.... You ask any question, any problem, the answer is there, perfect. All problems. Why people should not take this perfect answer to all problems? That is intelligence. Experiment we have made so many materially. They have all failed. We were under British rule. So where is that British rule now? And before that, there was Roman Empire, Carthagian Empire, Egyptian Empire, so many, Mogul Empire, then British Empire, now your American Empire. But these things will not help.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: You mean in a rich country like this, why should anyone be on the street?

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. There will be a third-class or poor class man, which you even want to help them, they'll not accept your help. That is another thing. These three phases.... I have seen in London, the British Empire, and the hippies, they are lying on the park, and the police kicking, "Hey, ut, ut," (laughter) But I mean to say, the nature is law, nature's law, that a richer class, middle class and a poorer class. That will continue.

Scheverman: Jesus said the poor you have always with you. But at the same time, he said we must go out and give what assistance we can as a Christian community.

Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...

Scheverman: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the homeless.

Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Bank will give you loan, they are eager to give you loan, and you haven't got to pay anything in gold and silver. One check, that's all. And with that check you can purchase lots of commodities and hoard it, and price will be increased. If I have to pay gold for (indistinct), then I have limited source. The price will not increase. This is the only way. Introduce gold only, gold and silver. In the British period in our childhood there was practically no notes. Silver. If I have to take payment from you, one thousand rupees, you will give me so much silver. For counting, counting, I have to see whether it is.... There were some imitation, counterfeit. So each coin you have to see, they were saying like that, that, "For thousand rupees I have to occupy so much space."

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Therefore they take us as one of these Guruji and Babaji, like this, like that. But when they read our books, higher class, they understand the seriousness of it. They admit that this is India's original, traditional knowledge. Higher, higher circle, they don't want any imitation.

Hari-śauri: No, someone with a little intelligence, he's not befooled by...

Prabhupāda: No. During British period, high British officers, big, big managers, they liked Indians with original culture. They did not like any Indian with European imitation-pants, coats. They didn't like these imitations. My Godbrother, that German, Sadānanda.... You have heard his name or you have seen him?

Jagadīśa: No.

Prabhupāda: When he came to India, he was my intimate friend. So he was telling me that "In our country, when some Indian student comes, especially while returning home after their education, they stop for some time in Germany, we used to inquire from him how much he is aware of his Indian original culture." Because they have got very good respect. All over the world they have got. Even Russia. They have got good respect for Indian culture. They have liked our books only on account of the..., because the Sanskrit verses are there. They took it, "Oh, it is original." Scholarly people like our book on that account, because we explain original Sanskrit verse. That they have got very good regard, that there is knowledge. They're impressed. And Britishers made propaganda only that India had no culture, almost uncivilized: They push women forcibly in the fire after the death of her husband, and in the temple, the priests, they make all nonsense with women, and so on. This was their.... Just to prove that "India was uncivilized, and we are making them civilized. By our compassion for the uncivilized persons, we are occupying."

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So these English people, they were very expert in making propaganda. They killed Hitler by propaganda. I don't think Hitler was so bad man. What do you think? You are Englishman. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: It's getting.... (laughs) Just from hearing you speak in the last few months I can understand that the whole history that I was ever presented in school is completely warped around to the way that the English saw it, especially the last two centuries, when the British empire was on the move. It's completely...

Prabhupāda: But actually, the war was between Germany and England. Others joined, some interest or something. Actually, the war was to be fought between England and Germany.

Jagadīśa: There's one devotee who joined in Toronto, Frenchman, and he was in France at the time of the war. He's an older man. And he told me also.... His father was French, but he was sympathetic to the Nazis, and that it was actually Maxmillian or one of the Frenchmen who sided with the British, but the majority of the French people didn't mind the German occupation. It was due to one of the political factions siding with the British that there was a French underground and...

Prabhupāda: France, they are always enemy of Englishmen. There is is old history-Hundred Years' War, Seven Years' War. Napoleon also wanted to cut down the Britishers. France is dead enemy of England, and there is always competition.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: England has always been inimical with the rest of Europe. With Germany, France, Spain, everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they thought, "This is a third-class nation, a small island, fishermen, and they have wealthy (indistinct)?" That is natural. Whole world. In our childhood, we used to see map, almost whole world red-red means British. (laughter) They said that there was no sunset in the British Empire.

Jagadīśa: This Frenchman also says that he...

Prabhupāda: German people still hate England. They do not like to speak in English; that I have seen. In the bank they know English, but they won't speak it. English everyone knows. The Kaiser was against. They said that Kaiser is the grandson of Queen Victoria, from daughter's side. And King George from the son's side—Edward's seventh son. They were cousin brothers. So this Kaiser, when he was young boy, went to paternal uncle's house, when he was a young boy. So there was some playing, cut with a knife. So royal family, so many doctors came. So the boy was saying, "Why you are trying to cure it? Let the English blood go away." So from the childhood he was so inimical, that "I have got some English blood in my body, my mother is English, father German, so let the English blood go away." I do not know if that is fact, I heard it. (laughs) Maybe. It is joking also and serious. In our childhood in school, a book was there, "England's Work in India." One Mr. M. Ghosh, he wrote this book just to flatter the Englishmen. This, that "white man's burden." And it was the impression in those days: just to become like Englishmen, that is civilization. The Parsees in Bombay, they were the first-class flatterer, imitation, how to become like English lords, barons. This Tata factory was started by such ambition. They wanted to be English baron, lord, industrialist. In Calcutta also. Where our temple is, that is called saheb quarter. In our childhood we used to say saheb quarter. Saheb quarter means European neighborhood. They say our temple is saheb mandira in Māyāpur. And in Vṛndāvana aṇgrejī mandira. The same impression. To become saheb, that was great prestigious.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: They actually had no resources whatsoever, the British. They had no resources whatsoever.

Prabhupāda: That was the mission of Hitler, that "These people are shopkeepers' nation, fisherman's nation. How they have become so big? This must be finished." Because their business was being hampered by the Britishers. In India we have seen. German and Japan, very cheap and first-class goods they will supply. The Britishers would not allow.

Hari-śauri: Yes, at that time, anything that was made in England automatically was considered first class.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, any rascal thing. They made a good market. And British Empire means to sell their goods. And they, for that purpose, they became rich. Money was drawn from all parts, especially from India. Everything. Later on, gradually we came to understand. In Lucknow, because I was in medical business, so I saw one Japanese salesman was selling one medicine, one or two items, potassiodide. Do you know? No. Potassium iodide. And another, iodine. He was selling at four rupees, eight annas a pound. But we were accustomed to purchase English potassiodide and iodine, thirteen rupees a pound. That Howard's.... Very famous, Howard's chemicals, like that. They were selling.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Generally, they are engaged in education.

Hari-śauri: I know in England they all have responsible jobs. Doctors and like that.

Prabhupāda: There are many medical practitioners. I have, I learned that British people, they like Indian physicians.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes, they're very popular.

Prabhupāda: They have got faith that these people treat carefully. One civil surgeon(?) is a Bengali in London. Civil surgeon(?). You have heard this Aurabindo? His father was a medical practitioner in England, and he was born there.

Hari-śauri: His mother was Indian also or...? No. (break)

Prabhupāda: Indian families, they are living for two, three generation. (break) ...teaching them how to make home comfortable, they'll be trained up to become prostitutes. How to kill time.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulaśekhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you take milk in other forms, like if you eat cheese, if you take curd or cheese, is it the same as drinking milk or ... ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any milk preparation. And if you have got enough milk, then keep it as ghee and open restaurant in the city. Give them nice samosā, kachorī. So in exchange you get money, you require little money, so that money will help you. Actually, in India, before these British, the poorer class of men, they were simply keeping, say, a dozen of cows, and that was their means of livelihood, that's all. From the milk they'll eat the, that, little milk, then yogurt, then..., what is called? It is another milk?

Devotees: Casein? Curd? Cheese?

Visakha: Buttermilk.

Prabhupāda: Buttermilk, yes, and in this way after drinking and eating so many things, whatever balance is there, churn it and they get ghee, and that ghee is kept in stock. On the market day, they go to the city and sell it. You'll find in Vṛndāvana, so many cultivators, they have brought ghee. So the inhabitants of the city, town, they require ghee, they purchase, and with that money they get some necessities, just like some oil or some spices, salt, like this, which is not available.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: India, everywhere they'll be received very nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prasādam distribution has now been started as a regular part of the program. And they did one program in a town called Dalialama. Immediately two monks and one British hippie joined the party.

Prabhupāda: Two monks means Buddhist monks?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Possibly. And he mentions in the last two weeks after we left Vṛndāvana we picked eight devotees, so they must have more devotees by now. The emphasis on their program he mentions is to make devotees and responsible preachers to carry on the Indian mission. And then he says that we've been advertising.

Prabhupāda: Advertising?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like this. He says "I want to make one banner and poster: 'Now you can join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Travel all over the world preaching Bhagavad-gītā. All expenses paid. Free food, lodging, etc. No qualification necessary. Apply ISKCON.' " It's like army recruiting.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No qualification.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: The average is seventy-three years now.

Prabhupāda: Seventy, then sixty then fifty. In this way, if a man lives from twenty to thirty years he will be considered grand old man. These are the symptoms, āyur. Then?

Pradyumna: Balam.

Prabhupāda: And bodily strength. Bodily strength... In India we, in our childhood, I have seen when British rule was there, all the Europeans were coming, very tall and stout and strong. Now such Europeans are not coming. Even bodily strength reduced. Then?

Pradyumna: Smṛtiḥ.

Prabhupāda: And memory. It will reduce. Just see, compare everything, religiosity and the power of mercifulness, pardoning, truthfulness, cleanliness, bodily strength, duration of life—they're all reduced. Now who can say it is not reduced? Can you say? This is called tri-kala-jñā. Tatas, what is that? Cānu-dinaṁ rājan?

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah, janmācāra. First of all, janma, the family, heredity, was taken into consideration, but that is now forgotten. Get money. Just like in England the British empire's policy was that you bring money from outside and deposit in the government treasury and you become lord. Is it not? Bring money, some way or other. So that was going on, exploiting, they used to go to the foreign countries and somehow or other accumulate money. Just like Lord Clive. He was a street boy, but he made some policy. In this way, diplomacy, he entered into Bengal and got some money, and Lord Clive, he became Lord Clive. So money is the criterion. Some way or other, bring money. That's all. That's a fact. These are the symptoms. Just try to understand.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means to please Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased He can change destiny. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti bhājāṁ (Bs. 5.54). Sacrifice means to please Kṛṣṇa, yajña. Yajña means to please Kṛṣṇa. The whole, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to please Kṛṣṇa. That is the whole program. In all other business there is no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. When they declare war, one nation to another, there is no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. They're pleasing their whims. The two, big, big wars began, it was not for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. The Germans wanted that their sense gratification is being hampered by the Britishers, "Declare war." That means it was a war of sense gratification. "The Britishers are satisfying their sense gratification; we cannot do. All right, fight." So, there was no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Hm. Then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Question number three. It is said that the greatest strength of Hinduism is its catholicity, or breadth of outlook, broadness of vision, but that this is also the greatest weakness in that there is very little common prescribed religious observances which are obligatory for all as in other religions. Is it necessary and possible to outline certain basic minimum observances for all Hindus.

Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So our business is to stop slaughter. Meat-eating we cannot stop. Certain persons, they must eat. They are fourth-class, and then fifth-class men. There are four classifications—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and caṇḍāla. Caṇḍālas, they will remain, and they are eating. Let them eat meat. That is the system in India still. It is not that in India nobody's eating meat. The cobbler class, they eat; the caṇḍāla class, they eat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even cows, cow flesh.

Prabhupāda: Dead. This cow killing has been introduced by these Britishers.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Christian.

Prabhupāda: Christians.

Hari-śauri: Even they're exporting beef from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can do anything, take the dead cows. I do not know if there is any chemical composition change. They are eating so many dead animals. Take for fish. The fish is never killed alive, because as soon as you take it out from water, it is dead, after few minutes.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: When it starts to fall apart, that's when they think it's the best. I think I mentioned before, in England, the gentry, the British gentry, when they used to go hunting, shooting pheasants and partridges, afterwards they would get the dead birds and hang them in a shed outside, and then after some days, when all the skin and feathers were literally falling off, that's when they would eat it. That's when it was considered rich.

Prabhupāda: There are so many kadarya things. In Burma, they have got a system, Burmese family. In the door, there is a pot, a big pot. So whatever animal dies, put it in there and cover it. So in this way, after some years, they're decomposed, and it becomes liquid, and then it is so decomposed that if you open it, within three miles they smell. So that is mature. Then they take out the liquid and keep it in bottles. That is called naphi. And they stock it, and when there is some feast at home they'll give little that naphi, and they'll relish it.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: ...celebration, independence from our point of view?

Hari-śauri: From our point of view, it doesn't have any meaning. For a conditioned soul to think that he's independent...

Prabhupāda: It is foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think they're free from being controlled by the British, for example. Free from being controlled.

Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?

Yadubara: There is none.

Prabhupāda: Simply dog dancing is independence?

Vṛṣākapi: Ultimately, they are declaring their independence of God, Kṛṣṇa. They can do as they like.

Prabhupāda: Then where is that independence? You can declare anything. A crazy man can say anything, but where is your independence?

Rūpānuga: In fact, they are bound up.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, that you speak the Vedic culture. That is India's mission. But these rascals, they are speaking technology.

Devotee: Try to make money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that it is due to this culture that India has been kept down. Because the British taught them that, and now they themselves think like that.

Prabhupāda: Still, any Indian who comes to speak about some culture like this, you flock together. Why? Why you go to this Maharishi, this Bal Yogi, and this one. Why?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're from India.

Prabhupāda: Because you expect something from India. They are cheating, that is different thing, but you go there to get something from India. That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means you have delivered the real goods, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. They're expecting. I read some articles from India: they're expecting some good message.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.

Hari-śauri: That was when he died? He died then?

Prabhupāda: He was so much insulted. Because every European countries were harassed, they had very bad idea about this Napoleon. Unnecessarily expanding the interest of France. "France and Napoleon, one." Now where is that rascal? France is there. This is going on. British Empire means bring money, hook or crook, in London, and you get the title, "lord," "baron," this... This was their policy. "Sir." All hooligans, thieves, rogues, they were made big, big respectable people. A deposit in the government, this lord family means they have to deposit, say, ten million pounds, like that, and the government takes that money as fixed deposit, and the interest the family will maintain the aristocracy. This is the lord's family. Some way or other you deposit ten million pounds and your family becomes lord's family. So people become mad after money, somehow or other bring money. There was no other culture. In order to introduce their Manchester cloth, how they killed the home industry of India, cloth merchant, this weaver... Just like we are trying. It is very long time, this, the handloom. They cut the finger.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The British did that.

Prabhupāda: The British did that so that the weavers could not work, just to introduce their Manchester's cloth. So many things they did. It is in the history.

Rāmeśvara: In America you never hear such history, in school...

Prabhupāda: They simply killed the Red Indians, that is the only.

Rāmeśvara: But in the schools they never tell you these things.

Prabhupāda: How they will tell, shameful.

Hari-śauri: In England it was "How we saved India."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is saving India?

Rāmeśvara: They say the "white man's burden." They came to make India civilized.

Hari-śauri: They showed us this...

Prabhupāda: Therefore all the śāstras, they bring it within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So whether your radio message reach there?

Hari-śauri: We should wait, Śrīla Prabhupāda, a minute, because police over there, they may object if we walk. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...only in America (laughter). All intelligence monopolized by America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like the old British policy.

Prabhupāda: Foolish policy. Just like the deaf man, he thinks everyone is deaf. You know that? This is psychology. Deaf man will think that everyone is deaf. Broadcast radio message in the Pacific Ocean, the aquatics they do not reply, that means there is no life? Rascal theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, maybe they speak a different language.

Devotee: They don't understand that there may be different mediums of communication.

Rāmeśvara: The government announces to the public that so much money from the taxes has to be spent on this space exploration. But according to the information that you're giving us it is not possible for them to be spending so much money to photograph Phoenix so they must be stealing the money.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that in previous ages when there was yajña taking place on this planet, sometimes the demigods would come down. So that means that is it possible that they would be communicating with the people of this planet?

Prabhupāda: Hm. They're speaking Sanskrit language. In all other planets they are speaking Sanskrit.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Prabhu, the... Can you tell us a little bit about the plans you have for your project in India?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I wanted to start this movement from India. I even requested Mahatma Gandhi, that "Mahatmaji, you have got some respect all over the world, and you are known as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. Now you have got your sva-rājya, the Britishers have gone away. Let us preach Bhagavad-gītā." But I don't think I got any reply from him. Of course he was very busy man. My letter might have reached him or not reached him. The secretaries might have rejected. I think received from secretary, like that. But then after few days he was killed. So I was trying for this purpose in India. I approached many friends, that "You have got four sons. Give me one son so that I can train him how to become a real preacher of Bhagavad-gītā, how one can understand." Because Bhagavad-gītā is being misinterpreted. So I wanted to preach it as it is. That was my mission. So practically nobody joined me. Then I decided to come here. And these boys cooperated.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, it has become now a phrase, but originally the word originated when the morning was good, because that is a great fortune for them. (laughter) Yes, in London I was three months; always gloomy, damp, cloudy. Therefore I, television said, they asked, "What is your idea of hell?" and "This is hell, London. London is hell." He stopped. He did not ask anything more. This is hell. Simply by big, big buildings, you are keeping as heaven, but it is the hell.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The British propagated in India though that everything was like milk and honey...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...in Britain.

Prabhupāda: They propagated the Thames River as very big river. And when I first saw it, it is canal. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canal. And the Ganges they said was nasty. Thames was a river and the Ganges was...

Prabhupāda: Jamesford, Lord James. That Jamesford is a village only. Some big man, little, take the title lord and go and become governor there. And when some Indian comes they say that Lord Jamesford was traveling in third-class compartment in railway.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Satsvarūpa: One of the biggest art professors in this country saw our books recently, and he said he's very interested in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that he thinks it's a new kind of art that your devotees are painting. That's also a school of art, and more and more it will be recognized.

Rāmeśvara: Right now they have one big exhibit of photographs that the British took when they first came to India.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where's that?

Rāmeśvara: It's at the Asia House Gallery nearby.

Ghanaśyāma: We have professors who buy the complete standing order series of the Bhāgavatam-it's because they like the artwork. And then they read the philosophy and like that too. But the art attracts them many times first. They very much like the purports of your writings, that it gives a living expression of the peoples of India other than just historical.

Prabhupāda: ...books.

Hṛdayānanda: They purchase books?

Ghanaśyāma: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Hṛdayānanda: The Dutch were defeated by the British, and the British took New York.

Prabhupāda: Yo bala maluk taya (?): "Might is right."(break) ...right is going on now also, but under some plea, United Nations. Where is unity? (break) Sometimes I stayed in this house. Eighty-seventh Street? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is not Eighty-seventh, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tripurāri: Seventy-second and Amsterdam. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...station like this.

Passerby: Bless your heart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow, he said, "Bless your heart."

Passerby: What's the scoop?

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa? How about Christ Jesus?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How about Hare Kṛṣṇa as father?

Passerby: Father? His father? 'Fraid not, fella. You'll meet your father.

Prabhupāda: Drunkard? No.

Hṛdayānanda: Crazy.

Interview with Religion Editor of The Observer -- July 23, 1976, London:

Cline Cross: I would say much the same as yours, from what I've seen in your writings—that there's an underlying truth behind all religion. Would you agree with that?

Prabhupāda: Religion, as it is explained in the dictionary, "accepting a supreme controller." Is it not? So do the people accept a supreme controller? Do they accept? There are so many system of religions, but do they actually know who is the supreme controller? That is my question. What do you think? Just like, this is British government, and we know that the Queen is the supreme controller. Similarly, of all creation, cosmic manifestation, there is a supreme controller, and who is that supreme controller? Do they know it? That is my question.

Cline Cross: I mean, what is your attitude towards Christianity?

Prabhupāda: Don't come to Christianity. I'm talking on religion, the science of religion. The religion... When we speak of religion, there is no question of Christianity or Muslim or Hindu. Just like when they speak of gold, gold is gold everywhere. Gold cannot be Muslim gold or Hindu gold or Christian gold. We are concerned with gold, not the country where the gold is produced. That is not very important thing. Whether it is gold, that is our business.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're appreciating. We are selling our books daily sixty thousand dollars. All over the world.

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're going to outdo Shakespeare soon. You'll have written more English words than William Shakespeare. (Prabhupāda laughs) Maybe you already have.

Hari-śauri: I don't think Shakespeare's brought out fifty-six books.

Mukunda: The Encyclopedia Brittanica wrote to us asking for...

Prabhupāda: They have said...

George Harrison: These books are such a lot of work. I don't know how he did it all.

Gurudāsa: While everyone else sleeps, Prabhupāda...

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupāda: At night I don't sleep. Not that because I am nowadays sick. But generally I don't sleep. At most two hours. At most.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: How do you find it in winter? Do you find it difficult coping then?

Jayatīrtha: No. I do, because I'm from the desert, but our British boys of course appreciate it. When it gets over 75 they immediately become prostrated with the heat.

Mike Robinson: Which desert are you from?

Jayatīrtha: Well, from California desert.

Mike Robinson: Oh, I see...

Prabhupāda: I shall request you, you are young man, just try to study our philosophy. And as you are journalist, try to do some good to the people. That is your duty.

Mike Robinson: Well, certainly we're trying to present both other people's views and...

Prabhupāda: Don't take it as a sectarian religious system. It is very scientific understanding for spiritual life.

Harikeśa: But, ah, "Beware of the undefeatable reasoning and logic of the Hare Kṛṣṇas, who will steal away your children." (laughs) Because we argue so nicely because Śrīla Prabhupāda has trained us up very perfectly, because he also is the perfect teacher of this. Therefore the students can learn that way. So when we argue people become afraid, because it makes so much sense.

Prabhupāda: They accuse me, "kidnapper of children." But what is my kidnapping method? The young men, they understand philosophy. What I can do, kidnap them? I have no money, I have no strength.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That may be, you may be a teacher, but you'll remain only a worker. That is another thing. Just like Dronācārya, he taught, he remained a teacher. So we can become a teacher of a particular subject matter, but that does not mean you should be worker. Still, there are many professors, they are teacher, they are not worker. But if the teachers are available, why you should become a teacher? Let them teach. We have to save our time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, this, in the modern world they have invented so many varieties of occupations unnecessarily, to develop economic condition. Is it not? But our philosophy is that you cannot develop your economic condition than you are destined to suffer or enjoy. So one should not waste his time for so-called development of economic condition. He should utilize his time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which was not possible in any other form of life. When we had cat's and dog's life, tree's life, we could not do that, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we have got human form of life, we should fully utilize it for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why should we waste our time for economic development? Economic development is not possible. Then every work, every city, they are trying to develop this economic condition, but they're struggling. Why they word it of "struggle for existence" is there? It is not possible. Why there are varieties of social position? Everyone could come on the same standard. That is not possible. Anywhere you go, the three classes of men, upper class, middle class and lower class, is there. Is there any country where there is not these three classes, only the upper class? Is there any country? Then what is the use? Anywhere you'll go, you'll find this upper class, middle class and lower class. In the beginning, I thought that America, everyone is richer class. So when I came I saw the three classes are already there. The lower class, although the country has good facilities not to become lower class, still, voluntarily they are hippies, lower class. They are lying on the street. Although he has got very good opportunity to become first class, but he is lying on the street. Why? What is answer? British Empire, London, one is lying on the bench. New York, lying on the bench. There is no sufficient clothing? Why? Actually, he can live very comfortably, but why he's living in that condition? What is answer?

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyāsī, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyāsī-politician." And his name was also recorded, "political saint," Gandhi. After all, the British government, they were very intelligent. They could understand what is what. Otherwise, how they were managing this big empire? Very intelligent, there is no doubt about it. And actually they were intelligent. When they were managing, we were happy, actually. Nobody can deny it. Although they were exploiting. But nobody could understand. Everyone was feeling happy. And as soon as they left, everyone is unhappy. That distinction I can give evidence, I can, from my personal experience. Things were very, very nice. Calcutta, oh, it was so nice city. Now it is hell. It is same Calcutta. Why it is now hell? Hidden(?) garden, that was a nice garden. So... Everywhere hell, only hell. Calcutta was considered the nicest city in India, better than Bombay, but it has become now hell. The streets, especially those quarters in our temple.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: I think Calcutta was voted the second dirtiest city in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācchā? Just see. And it was next to London. People used to say, "In the British Empire, first London, second Calcutta." And now it is...?

Hari-śauri: Second dirtiest city.

Prabhupāda: And who is the first?

Harikeśa: Karachi.

Hari-śauri: Karachi. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Both of them got sva-rāja, Pakistan and India. That means after getting sva-rāja..., Karachi was one of the first-class city, yes. They cannot manage. Unfit persons, they are on the top of government.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Seems everything is devolving at a phenomenal rate. Every decade that passes, everything breaks down twice as fast. Just in the last twenty years or thirty years everything has become so much degraded and...

Prabhupāda: No, I have got experience. I am Calcutta born. What Calcutta was in our childhood days and what is now, I know everything. How we were happy during British days and what is now position, I can speak from my personal experience. We do not belong to the richest class nor to the poor class-middle class. So we have got practical experience. My father's income was not more than 250 rupees. How opulent we were. At least, there was no question of need. We were receiving daily four, five guests, and my father was functioning so many festivals and he was asking... My father gave in marriage four daughters. There was no difficulty. The income was not more than 250 rupees. Of course, that 250 rupees at least ten times now. But still, there was no needy. Not very opulent, but there was no need. The first necessity is to feed and to clothe. So there was no such scarcity. May not be very luxurious life, but there was no scarcity for food and shelter or cloth. There was no scarcity. Happy. That is wanted. Happiness in whatever circumstance. Not that because we did not possess a motorcar, therefore unhappy. I purchased one motor car in 1925, Buick car. Not for personal use, but for using it as a taxi. My one nephew, he was a good driver, so my father, "Why don't you give him? He can do that, we can use it our own car also taxi." So I took it, Buick car, I think I paid eight thousand rupees.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: You wouldn't get that in the West. (laughs) They don't even maintain their own parents.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, during British time, people were happy, that I can... The thing is that Britishers were little afraid that "If the government is not good, it will go against our credit, that we may agitate." So they were careful to see that people are happy. But here nobody's careful. Everyone thinks "I'm in my own country. Whatever I do, it is all right." They were conscious, that "We are foreigners. If the management is not good, then it will go against our credit and it will be difficult working such a big England empire." So they were little careful. But these rascals are not... Just like the governor, he was friendly, but what is the report? Did he say? Did not behave very nicely?

Harikeśa: He wasn't interested to help for the tax exemption.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Yes, you told me before, Bon Mahārāja and Tīrtha Mahārāja, they were writing all these big, big men, but they told them frankly, that "I'm not going to do anything for you."

Prabhupāda: None of them. Formerly, a British governor, secretary, was a friend. You could get some service from him. The Britishers they knew the etiquette that if friends ask some help, I must help you. That is etiquette.

Hari-śauri: Now there's so much self-interest, they don't...

Prabhupāda: It is expected.

Hari-śauri: Still, due to the British presence, isn't that the main reason why India has become so degraded now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from...

Hari-śauri: Because they introduced so many bad things?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from cultural point of view, they are degraded. And that was that British policy, to kill them culturally. Otherwise not possible to rule over them.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: They always advertised that India was so backward because that was a justification for their being there, that "We shall go and educate."

Prabhupāda: They used to advertise like that.

Hari-śauri: Then they could exploit and avoid criticism.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many bad things Britishers introduced. Bad things means Western type of civilization.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes people, they say, we're always glorifying Indian culture, so why are they so badly off? So we tell them it's because they've give up the culture that they're badly off. Otherwise, a hundred years ago there was no problem. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Harikeśa: Tomatoes don't grow in India?

Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. English way of living, with fork and... Yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, whatever is foreign. In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside They were spending lavishly—in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels, and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken. And culturally conquered. (aside) Not so many. This will be enough.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Professor Chenique: Oh, yes, for this kind of book.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission,

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma

(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

He has to preach in every village and every town on the surface of the globe about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So our business is... Just this example I have given, that there is fire. I do not know the language. Still, I have to call and take help. So I am doing like that. There is a story. In Calcutta when the Britishers were establishing themselves, so one clerk was working in the office and some monkey came and scattered the office files and everything. So his boss came, he asked him, "What is this, why you?" So he cannot explain, so he began to jump like monkey, that on account of the monkey coming within the room. So when the language is unknown we have to jump and show that the monkey came.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Upon the body for existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition: because he's thinking that he is this body. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha is an ass. Mūḍha means ass. So I do not know what it is here. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he's dependent on the washerman. He has no intelligence that grass can be had anywhere, why I am dependent on this washerman to carry so much load. Lack of knowledge. Similarly, we are dependent on this body for lack of spiritual knowledge.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So ritualistic ceremonies, Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. Everywhere there are some ritualistic ceremony. So when you go above this... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in another place, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. By performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you may not perform this ritualistic ceremony. Because you have come to the objective. Not before that. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Vedic ritualistic ceremony is that if you perform this yajña, then you go to the heavenly planet and there you'll get so long life, ten thousands of years, you get nice woman, and so on, so on. People are after that, karma-kāṇḍa. So this karma-kāṇḍa is required so long one is unaware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands this karma-kāṇḍa elevation is not the aim of our life, our real aim of life how to go back home, back to Godhead, then these things are not required. Just like we have no ritualistic ceremony, we have simply devotional service. We have no ritualistic ceremony. There are so many things ritualistic. And we are performing only this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. Therefore the smārta brāhmaṇas, they misunderstand. They do not admit that they have become elevated. The Jagannātha temple does not allow. But when one becomes a pure Vaiṣṇava, then tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā (SB 3.33.7). He has performed all the ritualistic devotion. There are many statements in the śāstras, that when you come to the devotional platform, you haven't go to perform these ritualistic ceremonies. Because the end of ritualistic ceremony, you have come to the point. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of dharma is rejected here. This karma-kāṇḍa, by performing some ritualistic ceremony you may go to a heavenly planet, but what benefit you will have? That one has to understand. You can enjoy there materialistic, highest type of materialistic civilization means eating, sleeping, mating. These things you can get, but you have to come back again. Kṣine punye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). So what benefit there is? No benefit. Just like in British period, some Englishman was made viceroy of India. Then after five years they sent to London, again with his bag, marketing in the street. This has been seen practically. Lord such-and-such, he's traveling in a third-class compartment with a bag for marketing. But so long he was viceroy, oh, so much honor, so much prestige. So where is that prestige now? These ritualistic ceremonies are like that. For more years you become viceroy, and then again fall down. That is your Nixon. What is the position of Nixon now? He is ordinary man. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Guest: That's right.

Jñānagamya: His father was attached to British in India. He traveled in India during his boyhood in South India.

Prabhupāda: In my young age I had one Afghani friend, he belonged to the royal family. What is the king? Some of their brothers were banished in India. Who was the king? So one..., the family were staying in Allahabad. His name was Sen, Sen Aband(?) like that. So he was my friend. He was coming to me and we were talking. Amar Lakhana(?), his brother, he belonged to the royal family.

Guest: That's right, that must be before 1936 though.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am talking between 1925-30. So this same friend was coming to me and we were talking. I think at that time Afghanistan was under British influence? No.

Guest: No, we had only one war. That was about sixty, seventy years ago, and they entered and they captured Kabul, but the whole brigade was stopped. This was the time Churchill was the only one who escaped troops, and that was the end of it. They never... It was too risky for them.

Prabhupāda: This Afghanistan, when they were Hindus, this Kandahar, the King of Kandahar, his daughter was married to the Pāṇḍavas. Gāndhārī.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: That means it cost only six rupees per month for food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the hotel also they were charging six rupees. Means third-class hotel, not first class for cooking dāl, vegetables. Rice was, first-class rice, six rupees per month. Dāl, twelve annas for kg, flour, five annas for two and a half kgs. And from 1942, all of a sudden the price increased, artificially. Milk, two annas per kg. Now three rupees, four rupees. Ghee, first-class ghee, one rupee per kg. First-class ghee. (break) ...paying for the clerks thirty rupees per month. And head clerk, sixty rupees. Officers, hundred to two hundred rupees. High-court judges, four thousand rupees. High-court judges were highly paid.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Iran at that time was even cheaper, much cheaper. Because you had the British in India, you were...

Prabhupāda: Yes, when India was native state, they were cheaper. In India, this inflation was caused by Mr. Churchill. During the war he wanted men to join the fighting, so people were not coming. So artificially...

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Printed money?

Prabhupāda: No, artificially increased the price. So they were obliged to join.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, that work is recommended. Your question is how Kṛṣṇa is giving you instruction. Just like food, Kṛṣṇa says annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). You produce anna. Kṛṣṇa never said that you produce tire tubes. Never says.

Hari-śauri: But the same example, in the West, we weren't so materially prosperous until we started industrialism. The prosperity was not there until we started our big factories.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Just like in India, there was no industry at all. Until the British period, there was no industry. Not a single. Even in Muhammadan period there was no industry, and they were happy. There was no industry. The Muhammadans also did not know how to start industry. It is Western imported, larger scale industry. Cottage industry was there.

Hari-śauri: Such a high standard of living, that was not available to as many people as there is now.

Prabhupāda: What is that higher standard? When there was no industry, in India, there was full of gold, jewelries. And now there is plastic.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is perfect. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. That is the highest. Why these people, our own people, in spite of possessing Bhagavad-gītā, we are so rascals, we are not taking that?

Dr. Patel: I think the degeneration of this country are from the foreign people, foreign domination.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macauley's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "everything Indian is bad."

Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.

Dr. Patel: Our differential, or (Hindi) has created all this rot.

Prabhupāda: It is not our, it is human society's.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.

Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, you come and preach. The country is going to hell, the human society is going to hell for misguidance. These rascal leaders, they're going to hell themselves and they're leading others. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). These fools and rascals are leading, they are going to hell, and they are taking the followers to the hell. This is going on. Stop this. At least in India. Save. That is real para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Para-upakāra. Our India is not meant for exploiting others. Doing good to others, that is India's mission. Our teachers, our ācāryas, do not teach us "Go and exploit others and bring money"—British Empire. This is not India.

Indian Doctor: Even Jesus never taught that. These are the wrong followers.

Prabhupāda: Jesus is different thing than that. I mean to say generally, generally, the people they want to exploit others.

Evening Darsana (on night of arrival) -- August 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Puffed rice.

Devotee: And some fried, and there's hot milk.

Prabhupāda: You can give me little puffed rice. (long pause) During wartime some, during noncooperation movement, so one firm, they were supplying printing machine, and, very famous firm, forgot the name. So they had 113 branches all over the world. So somebody questioned that "If you British boycott, if by boycott movement, if your firm is closed..." So the manager replied, "So what is wrong there? If one branch is closed, we'll still have 112 branches all over the world." So if the Communist party in India they want like that, so we have our own branches all over. (slapping sound—for mosquito?) Don't kill.

Indian man (3): This book sales all over the world, six lakhs of rupees?

Prabhupāda: Sixty thousand...

Indian man (3): Dollars. About five lakhs.

Prabhupāda: Books. We are printing books five lakhs, three lakhs, one lakh, fifty thousand. Lowest twenty thousand.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Because they don't...

Gargamuni: They don't clean it.

Jayapatākā: How they can afford to maintain such a building?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will maintain. We can utilize it properly.

Jayapatākā: And we'll have British pūjārīs. For the glory of Queen Victoria.

Prabhupāda: Victoria. Let them send. Tell them that we shall bring. Victoria has... Let them send to worship Victoria with prasādam of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is real Victoria Memorial.

Jayapatākā: That is putra. (kīrtana in the background throughout this conv.)

Prabhupāda: Yes, great grandson. Putra is great... The putra was that Edward Seventh.

Jayapatākā: No, but to lift from hell. When she gets prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Pun-nārakāt trāyate iti putra.(?) Victoria died in 1903. There was great function, and this building started in 1903, and it was finished in 1922.

Jayapatākā: After her death.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: Yeah. That's a fact that in those old houses, the Marwaris they have inherited of all these pieces. Now they have it all. In the old British houses many Marwaris have taken over, and they have inherited all of the treasures of the British.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: Many antiques.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, if I take away something from you in this room and I keep it somewhere in this room, then where is the difference either with you or with me? That was going on during Mohammedans' ruling. But these people, they took away from the room. So India became poverty-stricken.

Jayapatākā: One more thing. Locally that bank that opened there...

Prabhupāda: They are... They are crazy fellows.

Gargamuni: That bank is worthless. They don't know anything about banking. They are farmers.

Prabhupāda: Forget it. If bank like Central bank or United, that bank... They are useless, and they are asking ten lakhs of rupees deposit.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We are trying to elevate the demoralized human society to God consciousness.

Pradyumna: Then, "John Erdman, a U.S. citizen who sails under the label of (sic:) Jayapak Swami and is in charge of the flourishing Māyāpur complex of the Society, recently had discussions with his chums to set up an In God We Trust Party in India also." Then, heading: "Bigger Than Defunct British Empire." "In a recent communication with Gargamuni Swami, alias Gregory M. Scharf, who looks after West Bengal, the chief from headquarters says, "Now we have become more than the British Empire"

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is your quote.

Prabhupāda: And what is British Empire? British Empire could not occupy the whole world. We are occupying the whole world.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But what they've done is they opened a newsletter which Rāmeśvara Swami sent. And it must have been addressed to Gargamuni Swami. They must have stolen it from the postman by giving him two rupees.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are trying to expand our empire, and it is already done all over the world.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are trying to expand our empire, and it is already done all over the world.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Pradyumna: "Now we've become more than the British Empire. Even the British Empire was not as expansive as we are. They had only a portion of the world, and we have not completed expanding. We must expand more and more unlimitedly."

Prabhupāda: You also explain, that British Empire expanded by military strength. And we are expanding by Ratha-yātrā. We are expanding our empire simply by Ratha-yātrā.

Hari-śauri: East meets West.

Pradyumna: Singing, dancing and chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We introduce three chariots in big, big cities, and conquered them.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We introduce three chariots in big, big cities, and conquered them.

Hari-śauri: "Rival to Nelson's Column."

Gargamuni: We are marching through the streets not with guns.

Prabhupāda: They admitted, "Rival to Nelson Column" in Guardian even. So who is strong enough? We are stronger than British Empire. Simply by Ratha-yātrā we are conquering. And actually that is being done. What I have got strength? Forty rupees beginning. Simply Hare Kṛṣṇa and Ratha-yātrā, that's all. That's a fact. They can see, they have got eyes.

Pradyumna: "The Indian government has been rather slow in picking up the ISKCON signals. One reason being that the genuine Kṛṣṇa devotees in the administration had been mighty pleased in the beginning with the idea of exporting Kṛṣṇa consciousness to America."

Prabhupāda: Genuine?

Hari-śauri: That means the genuine ones are here in India, and they were pleased with the idea of exporting Kṛṣṇa to America. So that means that the ones in America are not genuine.

Prabhupāda: So "You are not genuine. Therefore we are not appreciating." Genuine they appreciate. "But you are not genuine. Therefore we are criticizing you."

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: To be quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa, this is the short-cut process. He never says those who are sitting in a secluded place meditating or chanting, doing nothing. He never says that "They are My very dear devotees." But those who are preaching-na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me (BG 18.69). Just like government takes more care for the soldiers, especially when there is fighting. They are giving life for the state. So their comfort-first consideration. In the warfield, enough supplies. Anything the soldiers require. Enough supplies. Sometimes the store is blown out. And again another store is ready. Therefore in the wartime they control. (break) ...destroy them. And still another store. So therefore supply is sufficient. Civil supplies become controlled. Whatever they want, supply is there. The Britishers, British time. I have seen, in the village they will let loose the soldiers to rape anyone.

Maṇihāra: The sergeants and corporals go first. The leaders of the battalion, they will go first to start to ravage and loot, and then all their men will follow.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, huh? So I have seen in Calcutta outside villages. So my maternal uncle's house was their "Tally-on." (?) So when they used to come there was a, what is called rumor, "Soldiers come..." They'll captured any woman from the street. No restrictions.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They are refusing citizenship to the children. Children born of Indians in England, naturally they should be citizens. But now they're refused.

Hari-śauri: They're making all of them get six-month visas. That's partly the reason why India is now thinking to impose visa regulations on the British, on British people who come here.

Prabhupāda: Why they are doing that? Why not make world citizen? So much space. Let anyone go anywhere and live as he likes.

Hari-śauri: Nationalism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Internationalism. Why it is a short-sighted view, "They cannot come here"? Everyone is God's son, and everything belongs to God. If one finds opportunity in some place, let him have it. I think if this is adopted by the United Nation, immediately the face of the world will change. The Chinese and the Indians, they are very expert. If they are given place, they can immediately turn that place into a nice food-producing village. They can do that. And you can produce anything usable from anywhere according to the climate. Especially in America, the facility is very, very great. So many jungles. If the jungles are cut, the woods can be used for making house and the field can be used for producing food and milk, cows, everything. Around our New Vrindaban there are many places.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Pickle, yes. Khicuḍi with potato and other vegetables, and ghee should be given separately as I... Make it simplified. If I go to rest at two o'clock, then it will be possible to start. So see that it is quickly done. We shall go and come back by half past twelve. In Europe especially, if they do not change their mode of living, reject spiritual life, then gradually the whole situation will be dangerous. Then there will be no water supply.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Yes. I read in the newspaper just a few days ago that Britain is thinking of importing drinking water.

Prabhupāda: It is impractical. Is it possible to import drinking water for so many people?

Prabhā Viṣṇu: No.

Prabhupāda: This is their utopian theory.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Such bogus.

Prabhupāda: No, all the ministers of Andhra government, they came to our opening ceremony of the temple. Chief Minister spoke and the Endowment Minister, Suraj Narayan, Raju, he's a nice devotee. (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Brittanic Encyclopedia...

Prabhupāda: Where is the opinion of the Russian?

Krishna Modi: This is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the way it is now. They're telling everyone that the Andhra government is...

Krishna Modi: I don't think it is anything wrong. But in article they have told nothing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They try to indirectly...

Krishna Modi: Ah, that is not...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they have nothing to prove...

Krishna Modi: Prove them therefore... Let them say like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Brittanic Encyclopedia on the book of the year, they only have about a hundred selected personalities of the world and they had a biography on Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That change he doesn't want.

Indian man (4): But modernized man is more busy in his own life. When only he gets into bad time then he thinks "What is this?" But otherwise I think he has no time to think of these things.

Devotee (British): They think once you're dead you're dead and that is the end of it. They don't... They think "We'll enjoy now and we shall die and that's the finish." If you say to somebody, "Have you heard about reincarnation?" "I do not believe in this." Many people in the West cannot accept that the soul will transcend into another body, move on or move down. To them it's fantasy and humbug. This is why they are afraid. They are...

Indian man (3): This is same reincarnation. They think that he has gone. I won't be going, so I'll keep everything with me. We attend so many places where people die and we think, "Oh, he is gone but maybe I am not going to go."

Devotee: The ancient Egyptians used to put all their treasures...

Indian man (3): We don't understand that "All right, this is the end." So why not we understand and think in that line? That day you said that by chanting he thinks that he's chanting, maybe other people don't chant. So they don't know that they have to go. They think they are going to survive here only. They don't want to accept that they have to go, I think.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not want death. That I have...

Indian man (3): Yes. But definitely others are going and we won't go also.

Prabhupāda: That means he doesn't want to die. That is a concoction. Other side is that he doesn't want to die. It is the expression of the same sentiment in a different way.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...with some Indian wife they were called Eurasian, and Englishman marrying Indian wife they were called Anglo-Indian. There was a big Anglo-Indian community and they were given good facilities by the Britishers for government jobs, railways. In railway, almost cent percent. The driver, the guard, the ticket inspector, all, means, semi-important jobs, they were all given to these Anglo-Indians. Because they were not very much educated. And officers, they were all Britishers. Officers, secretaries. And Indians were clerks. Indians, they were accepted as clerks only. No officers. In military, Indian Sikhs and Gurkha, especially Sikhs, they were very valiant. Still they are valiant. They were given the post of captain. Not general. General all Englishmen.

Caraṇāravindam: I have seen many Sikh soldiers. They're very big. They're very noble looking soldiers.

Prabhupāda: They're very, martial race. Practically, the Britishers expanded their empire with these Sikh soldiers and Gurkha soldiers.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nepalese. They are very brave.

Hari-śauri: Yes, they're very renowned.

Prabhupāda: Sikhs are very brave. They're martial. And another martial race, Jats. They are kṣatriyas. Oh, they can fight... When Britishers possessed India they organized this military with Sikhs especially, Jats, and Gurkhas. And they expanded their empire, Burma, Ceylon, Africa, all these British Empire possessions. And not only that, they fought two big world wars with these Sikhs soldiers. They conquered over this Mesopotamia, Middle East.

Caraṇāravindam: They worked so hard. It's a pity they weren't doing it for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They like military. They want military jobs. Very kṣatriya spirit.

Caraṇāravindam: They collected so much, but they lost it because they didn't give it to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Ah, their bad policy that they wanted India for Britishers' benefit. That is not duty of the government. Government should be for the welfare of the people. Then that government will continue. But they exploited the Indian people for the benefit of their own countrymen. That is the failure. That policy was not good. Therefore they finished within two hundred years. They began their ruling 1775, like that. And 1947... Not even two hundred years.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Caraṇāravindam: And now nothing.

Prabhupāda: Now, after losing India, they have no more British Empire. Because they cannot maintain without Indian soldiers. Therefore they voluntarily left.

Caraṇāravindam: I used to see in my grandmother's house, in her front room she used to keep special...

Prabhupāda: Where? In London?

Caraṇāravindam: That was in Yorkshire, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yorkshire.

Caraṇāravindam: Yorkshire, near his birthplace.

Prabhupāda: You are also Yorkshire?

Hari-śauri: Almost. Just near, Lincoln.

Caraṇāravindam: And in her front room she had many things that my great-grandfather collected...

Prabhupāda: ...from India.

Caraṇāravindam: From India, yes. And then his son, my grandfather, he was also a soldier. He was a captain, and he was in India and in Hong Kong, and China, Tinsing. And he collected many things. He was also in the Boer War.

Prabhupāda: And your father?

Caraṇāravindam: He was born in Tinsing. My father's family was there, where he's serving. Then he became later, he was a commander in the Royal Navy.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was engaged in the Navy.

Room Conversation -- September 16, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All the Vaiṣṇavas, they are expert. Just like Rūpa, Sanātana, expert manager. Even in worldly affairs. Not that "I am so much big devotee that I cannot manage worldly affairs." Expert, must be expert. Dakṣa. (pause) So she can give me the fruits now. So... (break) ...intelligent policy to kill India's spiritual status.

Haṁsadūta: To kill India's spiritual status?

Prabhupāda: That was their policy. Because there was one Britisher politician, Lord McCauley. His report was, he studied the whole Indian situation. They were very expert politicians. He reported that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them. They must be trained up in such a way that they would think their own culture as useless; this Western culture is very good. That impression must be there. Otherwise, you cannot rule over them." So the education and everything was going on very silently on this principle.

Haṁsadūta: Imperceptibly they introduced this.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is their administration. And that was going on for the last two hundred years. So India lost. (break) ...educated persons they lost. And the mass of people, they were not educated. They have not lost, but they don't find any good example by the leaders.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Management that is in your hands. You have to... Who will give you management? You have to manage local, local men. Bon Mahārāja was failure that he could not get the local men. But I did not try to bring men from India and preach in England or America.

Devotee: Hm.

Prabhupāda: How is it possible? The British Empire was established on management. They did not bring men from England. Few managers, that's all. That is called management. One man can control hundreds and thousands of men, that is management. (long pause) Locally attracted. These Britishers came here and they introduced this zamindari system.

Haṁsadūta: The what?

Prabhupāda: Zamindari system.

Haṁsadūta: Zamindar.

Prabhupāda: Landlord.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So any third class man, if he's given some land, naturally he will be very much pleased. They created that aristocracy. So he selected some men that you give me four annas per bigha and what ever you can collect that is your... That is the old system in India, zamindari system. So collector, collector, the local collector, he appointed somebody. They used to give one lease, that you give government four annas per bigha, and whatever you can collect, that is your business. So that created an aristocratic society and they all supported Britishers, because they're obliged.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly in business also, they appointed brokers, that I am bringing cloth from Manchester and if you can sell you'll get so much commission. So without any investment...

Haṁsadūta: They were in business.

Prabhupāda: A broker club business. So the businessmen, the zamindars, and gradually they started their factories, railways, in this way they started. And they are big politicians, so it is their management. And they failed when things were mismanaged. First of all they created friendship, and later on when they were in power, they created enmity. Then it is failed.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: First of all friendship, and that established them. And then they began to create enmity. Hindus against Muslim, Muslim... They wanted to stay. When they forgot this idea that if they wanted to stay for the benefit of the people, nobody could drive them away. But their policy was for the benefit of the English people. Therefore they failed. Lord Curzon, he says a statement that, "If you want to stay in India, rule India for the benefit of Indian people. You can keep control over India. They are fond of kings, so one member of the royal family can become king here and they'll earn respect and honor (from) these Indian people. But rule for their benefit. Then British Empire will stay." Very good advice, but his advice was not taken. You have seen Lord Curzon's statue near the, in front of the Victoria Memorial Hall?

Haṁsadūta: Hm.

Prabhupāda: He was a very good governor-general. Many gentlemen came, they wrote very conscientiously and the last one, that rascal Chelmsford (chuckles), he created havoc.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indian and American, all learned scholars, they have spoken. Where is that statement? And Doctor Saligram, he has spoken very nice. Where is that? Doctor Saligram, Indian Professor, anthropology or something like that. So now better to see the movement from behind, who is that man behind it? (laughter)

Haṁsadūta: Now they're looking for you.

Prabhupāda: That British government said, "Gandhi in jail is more dangerous than he is free." (laughter)

Hari-śauri: These are the statements.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Dr. Saligram?

Hari-śauri: Yeah, Dr. Saligram Sukla.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: Education: he graduated from the University of Cambridge and a B.A. in classical languages 1962. Graduated from Cornell University, Ithaca, New York in Tibetan linguists and he has a Ph.D. in linguistics.

Prabhupāda: Cambridge?

Hari-śauri: He has several, he has several books out. He was born in India in a traditional brāhmaṇa family, he learned Sanskrit at the age of 10, and his knowledge of the Hindu scriptures written in Sanskrit is very profound. He has committed to memory the entire Bhagavad-Gītā scripture and one fourth of the Ṛg Veda. He himself is a worshiper of Kṛṣṇa. His teachings is a way of life and he is extremely competent to judge whether the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is authentic and bona fide.

Devotee (2): He came to see you in Washington.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And we have letters from Swami Premananda and all the (indistinct) from Bombay, and sent all these to Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone should join. Now people are taking this cultural movement so seriously and if our Indian leaders sleep, that is not good.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, I have... One boy in Delhi went to the British Embassy High Commission, and saw a British paper and even in the British paper the American court case was covered. Headline was "Hare Kṛṣṇa..." I have the paper. Even in the British paper it had a prominent display.

Haṁsadūta: Probably be in German papers too...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In fact you would probably expect that...

Prabhupāda: British paper. What does it say?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They were covering this court case. They had a nice prominent...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have taken it. Now, they are after intelligent person. They are... That has been expressed by this gentleman that it is going like epidemic. They must (indistinct). That is their feeling. That Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading so fast, like epidemic, we must take some steps. That is already, they have expressed their feeling.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then whole civilization finished. Even theoretically taken, no smoking, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, their whole civilization is finished. Lord Zetland said... Not only that, one Sir Valentine Chiro (?), I think, Sir Valentine Chiro, British, important, when Gandhi started non-cooperation. So he remarked that "If Gandhi's movement, this non-cooperation movement is one percent successful, then we will have to leave it." And actually that happened. Because they were ruling over India by Indian cooperation. Gandhi struck to the right point, non-cooperation, and he scented the danger, and he remarked at that time, that if one percent of the Indian people non-cooperate then we are, our British empire finished. So there are intelligent persons, they are thinking in their own way that this movement is so strong against this modern material civilization, if it is allowed to spread then our whole civilization, whole economic structure will be finished.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Gandhi's place, Wardha.

Prabhupāda: Wardha. And I saw his cottage and everything. So I said this is the... After all he wanted to live very simple life in a cottage, why he declared war against the Britishers? What was the necessity? (Hindi) Britishers would never tackled you or objected. The villagers were using. Why so much energy was engaged, to drive away the Britishers?

Mr. Malhotra: No, he wanted the country to be free from the foreign rule.

Prabhupāda: No, now what freedom we have got? (laughter)

Mr. Malhotra: That is a different thing.

Prabhupāda: But that means we do not get such information from Bhagavad-gītā, that "Make your country free." Why he took Bhagavad-gītā and did this business, miscreant (?) business. He took Bhagavad-gītā and he was busy declaring war. Because politically, sometimes required. But the thing is that if your ideal is to live very simple life... His, I mean to say, followers, Jawaharlal Nehru, he did not take up this.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...mind means polluted mind. We are part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Jīva is as pure as God and on account of this mind, he is suffering in this material world. You can see. You can see. Here is a living being, this tree. It is also a living being, but he's standing before me for fifty years or more than that. He cannot move an inch, and we are moving. So why this condition? He is also living being; I am also living being. I have got little freedom to move; he hasn't got. Why this difference of position? Due to the mind. So here in this material world there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. They're all due to the mental concoction. So if we want our original life as good as God, at least in quality, that is freedom of mind. And then we cease to become one of the covered living beings within this material world.

Guest (1): Sir, I read in one of your lectures at London, before the British office (indistinct), and you gave the example of Mahatma Gandhi and Kennedy. In particular, Mahatma Gandhi you said that four types of (sic:) defaulted mind and this condition and those condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Every living being is polluted by four kinds of deficiencies. A conditioned soul commits mistake. He takes something for something. And because he has no perfect knowledge, he wants to become leader. That is cheating.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. (Hindi) Śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). (Hindi) Nobody's... (Hindi)

Guest (1): No, the other day I was with Natalia in Japan, and he also said the same thing, that we have no training for the leaders. And because there is no proper leadership, everything comes to a zero. You have to train a man or a woman for a particular work. That is not being done in India.

Guest (2): British did it.

Guest (1): They made their servants quite all right.

Prabhupāda: They wanted for graft, to manipulate their empire. They wanted some subordinate hands. They never wanted to give real education.

Guest (2): That's true.

Prabhupāda: They wanted that the... That is cooperation. That is one of the Gandhi's understanding, that "These people are ruling over us by our cooperation. Therefore let us noncooperate and they'll fail. They'll not be able to rule."

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And that also, when they came back from the jail life, they decided not to do it again. Therefore Gandhi did not recommend mass civil disobedience next time. He recommended individual... (break) ...but (indistinct) 19l7, and we got svarāja in 1947. So it was not due to civil disobedience or noncooperation. It was due to Subash Bose's INA. He thought that when he organized soldiers, and...

Guest (1): Put them on the battlefield, fought them, defeated them...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And when the Britishers found, "Now the soldiers are non-cooperating. There is no hope of ruling," they left.

Guest (1): Yes. That is the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Subash Bose was always against this nonviolent means. That is the difference of opinion with Gandhi. So he wanted to capture the whole power, and he captured, but Gandhi became so angry upon him that he did not attend the Congress when Subash Bose was elected President. Then other lieutenants-Subash Bose also was Gandhi's student—so when others planned, requested that "Gandhiji is not happy. You better resign." So he resigned, and tactfully he went out of India. He knew that "So long Gandhi is there, my policy... I'll not be able because there will be..."

Guest (1): Always opposition.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.

Guest (1): That's true. Now in the British official records which they are publishing their secret papers of twenty-five years, that knowledge is very clearly that it was this armed fight of Indian National Army which convinced the British that they could not rule India with the Indian soldiers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.

Guest (1): And all these atrocities were committed by Indians upon Indians at the orders of the British.

Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have learned it.

Indian man: No, no. Fashion. Now one thing is they can hold off the rich people in India. That is not now, but about, put it back to 1944-45, during the war time. British time. That hold has become stronger. If we do not eat West, particularly America, then we are called "uncivilized." So to prove that I am civilized, there are three things. I must speak English, my children must go to missionary or convent schools, we must adopt Western customs and etiquette, and we must adopt their eating habits. Now if I'm not accepted in the American society... Even the British is now called uncivilized comparatively. If I'm not accepted by the Americans, that, "Yes, I know the standards and I live like them or even better than them," then I am supposed to be common. This is the conception of civilization amongst the Marwaris and the Gujaratis of the richer class. Previously it used to be, as they say of ancient India, that if one did not speak Sanskrit he was supposed to be uncivilized. So now that has come out...

Prabhupāda: In our childhood, my father's generation, in Calcutta, if a gentleman does not keep a prostitute extra, he is not a respectable man.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So anyone's question about this, this misdirected civilization? In India there was no such misguided civilization. Now they have learned how to misguide people, and they have taken this ideal, that "Unless we become like the Europeans and Americans our progress is checked." This is going on. Actually there is no progress. We are condemned. Why they should waste so much energy not for progress. Before British period, India, there were cities, but not like this because their energy was utilized. Cities were constructed especially in pilgrimages, like Mathurā. Mathurā is very old city, but that is a pilgrimage. Dvārakā, that is also very old city. First of all there was no need of big, big cities because there was no industry. They did not know what is industry. And there were ample food-food grains, milk, vegetables. Those who were eating meat, they were eating small, nonimportant animals like goats, hogs, and they never touched cows. Cows are very important animals. Even the stool, urine, is important. In the agricultural field the cows, passing stool, they will also benefit. Natural fertilizing.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them the shoes. He said, "Well we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way I suppose. I'm open to correction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business, he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair, now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: English people, they, I mean, ruined their whole industry of... Bengal textile industry was ruined by Britishers. They cut away the thumbs. That is... I'm sorry, sir...

Prabhupāda: Therefore why mahātmā? The same business you are doing, why you say mahātmā? If you are doing the same business...

Dr. Patel: He never called himself mahātmā. People called him mahātmā.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): If it is told by (indistinct) who accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, why these boys are attracted ? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Wellington, he (she) challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Wellington. Wellington was Iceland. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become MS, CP, to become this and that, and they became here big men. So why you people come here to teach us? This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, saheb śubha. Saheb means European, especially Englishman, and śubha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Saubhaga (?) Raj family. So the head of that family, Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clyde was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clyde saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate, all right I'll make you a king." Britishers they were giving title, king. So he was given the title Raja. So the whole family is Saubhaga (?) Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk. Why people will not say saheb śubha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family. Still that family is there, those who are known to Calcutta. One of the oldest aristocratic... So all these aristocratic families, they were made by these Britishers. Except the Tagore family. They were from the Mohammedan time. The people became attached to the Europeans. Saheb śubha. If you meet one Englishman then your fortune is... I think Bombay was there also.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because he was first in Gujarat.

Dr. Patel: Baroda Maharaj, when he, when he did not appear in horse riding test, (indistinct) but he did not want to start the qualification (indistinct) So he came. So Baroda (indistinct) Maharaj knew he has came. Baroda Maharaj was in England then. He called him (indistinct). The same thing as the Britishers did at Baroda. That is, Baroda Maharaj was appreciated.

Prabhupāda: No, he was a person to be appreciated. There is no doubt. He had so many qualifications. But he was also doing yoga practice. When he was put into... No, after getting released from jail, twelve years. He was to be hanged.

Dr. Patel: C.R. Das.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct). (break) This is the fact that yato mata tato patha? Whatever path you accept, that is all right? He said that. Do you think it is bona fide? Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, and he approves anything.

Dr. Patel: He was a partial political leader also.

Prabhupāda: That's all. He's a political leader.

Dr. Patel: But then he had a great burning desire to see that India be free of British purpose. He was a real nationalist...

Prabhupāda: That even cats and dogs, they also want that my cats be well fed and strong. That is not a very good position. And Bhagavad-gītā says aratiḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. This is philosophy. And if one is attached to his homely happiness he's not even a man of knowledge.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: When Vivekananda came back from foreign tours, he brought three women and one woman was intimately connected with him.