Based on... (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
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1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- February 1, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. In this country, of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there was none. It is the first time. I have introduced. But in India it is very, very old, since the advent of Kṛṣṇa, and at least since last five thousand years. So Kṛṣṇa is very popular in India. In every home, Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, and there are many millions of temples of Kṛṣṇa in India and followers also. Followers means almost all Hindus are followers of Kṛṣṇa. They read this Bhagavad-gītā. So I have recently published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It is published by Macmillan Company, and this book is very nicely being received. It is being reviewed by several papers. I have got many others books. They are being gradually introduced. Perhaps you have seen in our counter. We have got books, magazines, calendar, and other literatures. So it is a very scientific movement. It is not a sentiment, bogus hoax. Anyone who wants to understand this movement philosophically, scientifically, they will be very much satisfied with this. The idea is that any religious movement without philosophical basis, it is simply sentiment or fanaticism. And philosophy without idea of God is simply mental speculation. Therefore religious principles combined with philosophy, that is perfect. So the younger section become attracted to this movement because we are giving some religious principle based on philosophy.

Interviewer: About how many followers would you say there are in the United States?

Prabhupāda: Initiated members, there are about one hundred or little more, but sympathizers, admirers, there are many. Those who come, those who contribute, take sympathy, they help, and in that way there are many followers. But actually initiated members, there are about a little more than one hundred.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Love is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and love is the basic principle of all our activities. So love is there, dormant, but that love is not being properly utilized. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the movement to revive that original love and the original person with whom that loving transaction can be executed.

Interviewer: What are other major beliefs besides love, to which you ascribe?

Prabhupāda: Other belief, they are also based on the principle of love. That is actually not belief; that is misbelief. Because any religious principle... Just like Buddhism. Buddhism, actually, they do not believe in God, but they have love for Lord Buddha. So love is there. They may declare that "We don't believe in God," but they love Lord Buddha. And according to our Vedic scripture, Lord Buddha is also incarnation of God. So we interpret in this way, that Lord Buddha preached among the atheists by cheating them. Oh, how it is? That they did not believe in God, and Lord Buddha said, "Oh, yes, there is no God. But you love Me." So they are loving Lord Buddha. Similarly, there are many persons. They do not believe in family life, they do not believe in so many things, but love is there. He is sleeping with a cat, with a dog. So in no circumstances you can avoid love, but they are suffering because the love is misplaced and misused.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this body we cannot go there. With this body we cannot go there. We shall have to change this body. Either you do it scientifically or spiritually or by any other method. With this body you cannot go there. You have to prepare a similar body which is suitable for living condition there.

Reporter: Would a spacesuit substitute for that?

Prabhupāda: Space?

Reporter: In other words, the spacesuits that the astronauts wear...

Prabhupāda: I don't think so. I don't think so. Spacesuits are...

Reporter: You see I'm a little confused because I can't tell whether you feel that based on Vedic literature, that you said it may be possible for them to land and to return for a short visit, yet you say they cannot go with this body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I say also this, that to land there you must have the specific body suitable for that place.

Reporter: To land there you must have...

Prabhupāda: The specific body.

Reporter: I didn't get that.

Hayagrīva: A specific body.

Prabhupāda: Now that specific body, if you are able to make by your modern science, then it may be possible. But you have to change your body to that specific condition. But the spacedress which is now being used, that is not useful.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Very cold. So even taking the scientific statement, how you can live there if it is two hundred degree below the zero degree?

Reporter: Well I don't know unless they intend to land at a time that...

Prabhupāda: No. There is suggestion of the scientist that there the temperature is two hundred degree below zero. I have read some paper. So if it is a fact then how you can live? You feel uncomfortable even in the Arctic region within this planet. How you can go and stay there even for a few minutes where two hundred degree...

Reporter: Yes, that's an argument based on logic,...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: ...and given the information about the degrees... But obviously, they're going ahead with plans to do so, and you have a transition period, for instance, between the part of the moon that is in sunlight and the part that is darkness.

Prabhupāda: That I've already admitted, that by modern scientific method if you can change the condition of your present body then you can go. It may be possible, but that is very remote.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Well, what I'm getting at is that if for instance you say that first this conviction that they would not be able to land, and secondly that whatever earth people would go there would be opposed and would not be able to safely return, if you say this, based on Vedic literature, and other members of the Kṛṣṇa movement heard this, and then if the feat were accomplished, would this not seem a contradiction or something that had been said would be the case and then the opposite was proved true? Would this...

Prabhupāda: What is that contradiction? There is nothing contradiction. We say that if you get a suitable body you can enter there. So if by your scientific process you can equip yourself with suitable body you can enter there. Where is the contradiction?

Reporter: Well, you said that spacesuit was not a suitable...

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. That is not suitable.

Reporter: That's the way they intend to go.

Prabhupāda: That is, that is not, that we can safely say that with this suit you cannot go there. You have to make a different suit. Perhaps you do not know that.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: Have any of these demigod creatures visited the earth or...

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to because at that time people were worth to see them. You see?

Journalist: When you say formerly, you mean thousands of years ago or...

Prabhupāda: No. At least five thousand years ago.

Journalist: At least, five thousand years ago the last time that any, that we would... Are they in human form?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So far we get information, sometimes great sacrifices were performed, and demigods from other planets, they were invited, and they used to come.

Journalist: Where...? Where...? And this is... Your authority for this statement is based in the Vedic literature?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Journalist: I see. I see.

Prabhupāda: It is not manufactured by me.

Journalist: Oh, I know! No! I'm not implying that. But I just want to know where the...

Prabhupāda: My authority is Vedic literature, yes. You'll find Bhagavad-gītā... You have seen our book Bhagavad-gītā?

Journalist: Yes. We have it at the office. I've seen it.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Is your philosophy, your approach to consciousness, based on the Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, Bhagavad-gītā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means practical understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. This is the sum and substance. I thank you for your capturing the idea. Bhagavad-gītā is the sum and substance of the whole Vedic literature, and it is very nicely explained, things as they are. Unfortunately there are so many interpreters. They interpret the verses in their own way. That is the nonsense of the whole thing. But if Bhagavad-gītā understood as it is, oh, it is a great boon to the human society.

Interviewer: In what... Are there fundamental differences between, or is it simply a difference in approach between your awareness and interpretations and, for example, those of the people who are involved with Zen? With some of the other Eastern concepts? Would you like to...

Prabhupāda: No, of course, I do not know what is Zen conception, or Eastern conception, but we agree with many of them, just like we agree with the concept of God presented by Bible or Koran. That is recognized. And Bhagavad-gītā is so simple that it does not require any interpretation. When things are understood directly, there is no question of interpretation. When things are not understood, then you can interpret, I can interpret. So the verses of Bhagavad-gītā are so simple that there is no question of interpretation. Unfortunately I have seen that in Bhagavad-gītā, commented by a great scholar like Dr. Radhakrishnan, the verse is translated very nicely and that is done by an Englishman, but he interprets in a different way. So when we can understand the thing very nicely, there is no question of interpretation. You see?

Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: If everyone is God then what is the meaning of God? You must give definition of God. If you do not, then you do not know what is God. Therefore you are asking...

Guest (1): (inaudible)

Prabhupāda: So it is a great science. It is not bogus propaganda. And based on Bhagavad-gītā and Vedic literatures. Not that it is imaginary. No. There is...(inaudible), realized persons. There is chance of...(inaudible). So if you are here now, take advantage of this great science. And we are prepared to submit... (many people talking)

Guest (2) (Indian man): I want to love everyone.

Prabhupāda: Then you... That is bogus. You cannot love everybody. If you love God, then you can love everybody. Because God is everything. So just like if you pour water on the root...

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we... Wherever we have got a center we have got a temple and at the same time teaching. These two things must go parallel. If simply dry teachings go on and there is no temple worship, then gradually he will glide down to vyabhicāri instead of brahmacārī.

Guest (4): Besides the chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and arousing(?) this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the people, what else are you doing to establish the way...?

Prabhupāda: That you have seen this morning. We are teaching every day the śāstra. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.(?)

Guest (4): Mahārāja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best...?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: But it has come into use. Real, I mean to say, cultural institution is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatri, vaiśya, śūdra—these four varṇas—and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So according to Vedic concept of life, unless people take to this system or institution, institute of varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas, actually he does not become a civilized human being. This... One has to take this process, four divisions of varṇas and four..., four divisions of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. That is called varṇāśrama. So India's culture is based on these four, eight system, varṇa and āśrama.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So suppose we accept such statement without any argument. That is the way of Vedic understanding. Vedic understanding means you have to accept whatever is stated in the Vedas without any argument.

Prof. Kotovsky: So forget about Vedas. Our approach is we don't believe in anything without argument. We can believe only on anything based on argument.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that...

Prof. Kotovsky: Here is the basic...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is allowed.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...projecting (?).

Prabhupāda: That is allowed. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34), paripraśnena sevayā.Paripraṣna, argument, is allowed, but not with a challenging spirit. With a spirit to rightly understand. Praṇipātena paripraśnena. That... Argument is not denied. But so far Vedic statements are there, they are infallible, infallible, and the followers of the Vedas, they accept in that way. For example, just like cow dung.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Yes. That is not necessarily based on the religious principles, of course, what you are talking about.

Prabhupāda: No, that is a philosophical principle. Religion without philosophy is sentiment.

Interviewer: Don't you think there are very good reasons for the existence of these rules and regulations in this respect?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rules and regulations must be established on philosophy. Otherwise it is sentiment, defective. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined, philosophy and religion. Then it will be perfect.

Interviewer: I think that in this part of the world, in the Western world, at least, as much as I am aware of it, we do place a good deal of emphasis on religion and...

Prabhupāda: Based on philosophy.

Interviewer: Well, on religion... What I would like to highlight, what I would like to emphasize is that we place a good deal of emphasis on religion in the ways it gets one man to deal with another man. The ethic of religion. Now...

Prabhupāda: No. Our point is not that.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: We require help from personalities like you, because it is very important movement, checking a great mistake in the modern world. Modern civilization is very risky. Risky in this sense: that the human form of life is an opportunity for self-realization, but our leaders, they are miseducating that "You are this body." A basic mistake. But I am not this body, but just like you are sitting there, if I take account of your shirt and coat only, not you as a person, then there is a great mistake. Similarly, the modern civilization, education, everything is based on this bodily concept of life. But actually we are not body. Body is my shirt and coat. Mind, intelligence and ego, that is the shirt, finer dress. And this five element body—earth, water, fire, air, ether—this is gross. Just like shirt and coat. Similarly, we are dressed, the spirit soul. The spirit soul is also a measure one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important in this sense, that they are trying to bring people to the constitutional position. A living entity is transmigrating from one body to another, as well in our present body also, we are transmigrating. In my childhood I had a small body. That body is no longer existing, but I am existing. So there is no reason to believe that when I give up this body, I'll not exist. No. I shall exist, but in another body. So people are not interested to make the research work how the soul is working. This is ignorance. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to revive the pure consciousness of the human society so that he can know himself and act accordingly. Then his life is successful.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Just like in your country, or any country, the national... National means a man born in that land. Is it not? But they do not take the animals as national. Why they have no right to become national? That is imperfect of knowledge. There is no God consciousness; therefore they think only the man born in this land is national, not others.

Interviewer: That is not necessarily based on religious principles, of course. Prabhupāda: That is philosophical principle. Interviewer: Right. Prabhupāda: And religion without philosophy is sentiment. Interviewer: Don't you think there are very good reasons for the existence of these rules and regulations in this respect? Prabhupāda: Yes. The rules and regulations must be established on philosophy. Otherwise, it is sentiment, defective. Religion without philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined, philosophy and religion. Then it will be perfect. Interviewer: I think that in this, in this part of the world, in the Western world, at least as much as I am aware of it, we do place a good deal of emphasis on religion and... Prabhupāda: Based on philosophy.

Temple Press Conference -- August 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like we are all human beings, gentlemen, ladies. Maybe in different dress, but our aims and objects are the one and the same. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purificatory process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). To make people free from all designations. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. And in Kṛṣṇa consciousness they become purified. And when they're purified their activities by purified senses make them perfect. That is the ideal perfection of human life. And our process is also very simple. There is no need of becoming a great philosopher, scientist, or thoughtful man. Simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord we can immediately contact with the Lord, because the Lord as the person and His name and His quality are all absolute. So this is a great science. Unfortunately, there is no department of education for this science in any one of the so many universities. So we invite, therefore, all kinds of serious men for the welfare of the human society to understand this great movement and if possible take part in it and cooperate with us. That will solve all the problems of the world. That is the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā. Very authoritative book of knowledge. Most of you may know the name Bhagavad-gītā. So our movement is based on this Bhagavad-gītā, the authorized book of knowledge, and approved by big ācāryas in India, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Lord Caitanya. So you are all responsible representatives of papers. Try to understand this movement and ventilate it as far as possible for the good of the whole human society. That's all.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. (break) Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion, they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment. Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion. And therefore people become, revolted: "What is this nonsense? They are living at our expenditure." We are real religious people. We are enlightening people about religion, life, about God. And these people they simply take money and live peacefully. And drink also. Here they drink wine. In India they drink gāñjā. You have been Rādhā-Dāmodara temple? You have seen that Gosāi?

Śyāmasundara: Is he still there?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rādhā-Dāmodara is kind. And where this rascal will go? (laughter) After all, somehow or other, he is giving some service to Rādhā-Dāmodara, managing. Api cet sudarācāraḥ. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. (break) ...should think that we have got to say so many things to the people. Huh? About this. So take these ingredients, assimilate them in the brain and distribute.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: That's very true. That's why (indistinct) children (indistinct) and such like and things like the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement who not only (indistinct) philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Just like the child is afraid of the father. There is affection. My father is displeased that I do... Father has says, "Don't touch this." So I don't touch. My father has... So that fear and affection, both is there. It is not simply that he is afraid of his father but the affection is there. So to become obedient to the authority, there is a tinge of fear also but that is based on affection. That is not actually...

Śyāmasundara: They were saying also that in this age, particularly now, there is a great fear of loving someone or something on the part of the large population. They think that by...

Prabhupāda: There is no real love. There is expectation of being frustrated in love.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Lust and..., Eros, lust. Agape(?) is pure love, transcendental love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism, make everything null and void. No more activities. No more love. We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. So cure the disease and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eyes, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem. Our proposition is: Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... (CC Madhya 19.170). We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration. Don't see, make everything void. No. We don't say that because there is no void. It is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "it is supposed," it is not scientific.

Bob: Yeah, but I think almost all of science, then, is not scientific. Because all science... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Bob: Oh, I see. Is based on, you know, suppositions of this or that. So imperfect knowledge may be taught...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bob: Imperfect...

Prabhupāda: They're teaching imperfect. Just like they are advertising so much about moon. Do you think the knowledge is perfect.

Bob: No.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Bob: What do you think is the proper duty of the teacher?

Prabhupāda: No more. Huh?

Bob: What is the proper duty of the teacher in society? Let's say a science teacher. What should he be doing in the classroom?

Prabhupāda: Classroom, you should simply teach about Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): Your home base is in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. My headquarter is in Los Angeles. Now we have made very big headquarter in Bombay, Juhu. Twenty thousand square yards. We are constructing a very nice temple there. And similarly, we have got another headquarter at, by pīṭha, in Lord Caitanya's birthsite, Navadvīpa. There also we are constructing very big temple. It is eleven bighās. What is a bighā? About four acres.

Guest (1): What about England? London. How is your movement doing?

Prabhupāda: Yes, London is very... There is also. We have got very nice temple near British Museum, 7 Bury Place. And all Europeans, they come to see our temple from Germany, from France. Because we have been advertised in cooperation with the Beatles. The Beatles, Beatles, the George Harrison. You do not know his name? He is very famous man. Yes. So we have produced some records in cooperation with George Harrison's organization. So because the records are produced through George Harrison, we have got a very, very big sale. You see? And that has advertised Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple, London. So people come to see what is this Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple, out of... Because London, every day, thousands of visitors come in London. They have got visitors buses also, charge nominal. So London is still important. From all parts of the world people come. So anyone who comes, they come to see our temple.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Once I was invited to speak in that institution, MIT. So I questioned, "Where is your department of technology to understand the difference between dead body and living body?" So I spoke on this. So the students appreciated. After my lecture, they gathered around me. How do you explain? What is that technology, why the man is dead? Science is simply based on this bodily concept. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Indian man: But about body also they don't know anything. Prabhupāda: That also they have no perfect knowledge.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now, such camps, because you are not established, so, under the circumstances, what is to be done? To reduce our devotees?

Śyāmasundara: We have our base in Calcutta, we have our base in Bombay, those two places.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Śyāmasundara: Those are important cities in the world.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana, as long as our temple is not constructed, we are minimized. So therefore automatically there is no question of negotiating (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The original source is life.

Prabhupāda: Life, yes. They are searching after the original source. That is life, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all causes. So this is not theory; this is fact. Now we have to prove it. Then the whole program of these rascals' theory will be changed, and people will be happy. Because they are standing on a wrong theory, all their calculations are wrong, and people are suffering. The rascal Darwin's theory. So many, based on this foolish theory, wrong conception of life. So we have to challenge, protest. defeat. This will be our work. Our worshiping of Kṛṣṇa, that is our internal affair. The external affair—we need to establish this theory. Otherwise they'll be leading this society. Misleading. They are misleading, not leading, misleading. So we have to stop this misleading. Make program how to do it. Because it is truth, you will come triumphant. There is no doubt about it. It is truth. Now you have to know how to present the truth. That is your business. We are not presenting something theories, concocted by my brain. No. This is the fact. Rudimentarily we have got evidences, but it has to be presented by the modern ways. They are presenting some wrong principle by propaganda, and we cannot establish real principle by factual presentation? What is the difficulty?

Brahmānanda: Well, when we ask them, they say, "I do not know."

Prabhupāda: That is their position. They do not know. So immediately you have to challenge that rascal, "If you do not know why you teach? What is the value of your teaching? If your position is 'do not,' then why you stand for teaching fact or truth?"

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Your work, and supervision-higher authorities.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is completely in contradiction with Darwin's theory.

Prabhupāda: Darwin is a rascal. What is his theory? We kick on your face. That's all. That is our philosophy. The more we kick on Darwin's face, the more advanced in spiritual consciousness. He has killed the whole civilization, rascal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even all the scientists now, the present scientists, their arguments are based on Darwin's early theories.

Prabhupāda: What they are...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That life started from matter and is evolving from the uni-cellular organisms to the multi-cellular organisms. So that means they are saying that there was no higher species at the beginning of creation.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense. So why there is now higher species? And the lower species also. As we see at the present moment, there is the most intellectual person and the most foolish ass also... So why do we see all the things simultaneously? Why ass is not abolished? What is their answer? So similarly, formerly also there was.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Prabhupāda: We realize, everyone realize. As soon as the soul goes away, your body is lump of matter.

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, well (laughs), this is just dead. I mean, I don't know whether soul went away or not. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: You don't know, but I know.

Krishna Tiwari: Well, that's your belief.

Prabhupāda: No belief. I'm taking...

Krishna Tiwari: That's your belief.

Prabhupāda: I'm taking my...

Krishna Tiwari: It's my belief too that there's a soul (laughing), but I, scientifically I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Your, your, your belief is also based on some scientific data.

Krishna Tiwari: No. No. Beliefs can be anything. But I can believe he's out to kill me. He can believe I'm a bad man.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Krishna Tiwari: Belief has no foundation.

Prabhupāda: No.

Krishna Tiwari: Not necessarily foundation.

Prabhupāda: Belief, belief is there. Fact is not belief. Fact is fact.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you must be busy.

Mr. Wadell: But what we are talking about is something which doesn't change from today or tomorrow or yesterday. So when these things have been done, perhaps next week, I will come down.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you are welcome. I want that responsible persons like you should try to understand the scientific value of this movement. It is not a sentimental movement. It is based on philosophy, science, authority.

Mr. Wadell: Well, it's on this question of authority, in a sense, that we would have the greatest difficulty. But another time, please.

Prabhupāda: Well, every religion is authority. That's a fact.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You question.

David Lawrence: We're working predominantly with the older age group, of course. And, uh... Fourteen, fifteens.

Prabhupāda: But first thing is, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is based directly on the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is nothing but to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. That is the...

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there. It is open to everyone. It is not only open to us. Everyone. Bhagavad-gītā. It is widely-read literature in the world. But unfortunately, they have been misinterpreted.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You have heard something about our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: I know something in general, yes. Perhaps you would tell me more.

Prabhupāda: It is based on Bhagavad-gītā.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You have read Bhagavad-gītā, I think.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So primarily, it is based on Bhagavad-gītā, and then it is being explained from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: In Canada, there is two languages, English and French.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. And unfortunately, a great feeling between the two.

Prabhupāda: This material world is based on jealousy. And spiritual world is based on friendship. That is the difference. So the, these materialistic persons, United Nations, League of Nations, they are trying to unite, but they, at heart, there is jealousy. So they can never become united. This is only bogus farce.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They cannot be united because at heart there is jealousy. They go to the United Nations assembly. So one man is speaking with jealousy for the other. The other man is speaking (laughs) with jealous... So how they can be united? It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: In the Jewish tradition, they yearn for a life of living on farms, villages, small communities with cows and agriculture.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Is this also expressed in the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

David Lawrence: You feel that strongly.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is real life. Real life means you have to minimize your bodily activities so that you can save time and devote for spiritual understanding. That is real life. And the present civilization based on bodily concept of life is animal life. It is not civilized life. Civilized life means athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one is advanced so much so that he inquires about the spirit soul. But there is no such inquiry. Like the cats and dogs, they cannot inquire what is spirit soul. So Vedic life means to become free as much as possible from the bodily disturbances. Therefore, the first education is to become brahmacārī, celibacy. You see? Now, at the present moment, they are trying to make the abortion as law. But these rascals cannot check their sex life. You see? Their philosophy is that you shall go on with sex life unrestrictedly and when there is pregnancy, kill the child.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, universal things are also eternal. Everything, the nature. Nature is also eternal.

Guest (1): I see. Right, I'm beginning to understand that. Another thing I would like to know very much is that I feel, but have no proof, that I have experienced in my, in the things I do, which lead me to believe that my experiences based on a memory I don't understand which, which belongs to previous lifetimes. Now is that, a fa...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, previous life there was. Just like previously, you were a child. Previously, you were a boy. Previously you were a young man. So similarly, we had previous life. Previous life means not exactly in this body but another body. But I am eternal. I live either in this body or in another body. Just like I'm a person, I live in this apartment or any other apartment. The apartment may change, but the person who lives in the apartment, he does not change. Similarly, I am spirit soul. I am simply changing different apartments. But there is a life, because I am eternal, where I haven't got to change apartment. I get permanent residence.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that these universities, educational institution, all over the world, they are simply concerned with this body. According to our Vedic culture, to remain satisfied with the bodily necessities of life is the business of animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

These are animal conceptions. So anyone who is accepting this body as the self, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cows and kharaḥ means asses. So this civilization based on the bodily necessities of life is animal civilization. Because we are not this body, we are spirit soul, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: dehino 'smin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The soul is within the body and it is transmigrating from one type of body to another. Even in this life.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The whole material civilization, nationalism, socialism, this ism, that ism, everything based on this bodily concept of life. But one who is in bodily concept of life, he is no better than cows and asses. So in the human form of life, because of the developed consciousness, there is inquiry, what I am. What I am. Am I this body or I'm something else other than this body? This is natural inquiry, and the Vedānta-sūtra begins from this inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the animal concept of life the inquiry is where is my food, where is my shelter, where is my sex, where is my defense. These inquiries. But when one comes to the human form of body, the inquiry should be, at least, that what I am. If I study myself, I think, if I take this finger, am I this finger? The answer will be no. It is my finger. So my eyes, my head, everything "mine." Then where is "I"? Unless this inquiry comes into the living form of life, human form of life, he's not a human being. He's animal because animals never inquire. He's satisfied. A dog is satisfied. He knows that "I am this body." According to the dog's body, he barks. That's all. No more inquiry. Therefore actual human form of life, actual business of human form of life, begins from this inquiry. Brahma-jijñāsā. So this brahma-jijñāsā is being explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is Brahman? That is, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So dehī, the owner of the body, is Brahman. Therefore Vedic injunction is, "Just realize what you are." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So it is not Hindu dharma or Indian dharma. It is natural inquiry of the living being when he's advanced in consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They are called kutarkī. Kutarkī. "Bad logicians. Bad logicians." Kutarkī.

Prajāpati: So much of it is based on politics, also, Prabhupāda. They...

Prabhupāda: Yes, They, they, they're everything, motivated. So therefore they're imperfect. I have got... Just like this United Nations. They have gone there for becoming united, but they remain disunited forever. Just see. All the best men go there for becoming united, but forever they will remain disunited. Just see the practical. Because they're all imperfect, rascals, motivated. How they can be united? They cannot be united. Simply spoiling their time and public money. That's all. Simply spoiling. But public have no eyes to see them. They're also rascal. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say that the whole society's now combination of cheaters and cheated. That's all. The cheated want cheaters, and cheaters take the opportunity of the cheated. And that is the combination of the present day society. Somebody, they want to be cheated. And there are some cheaters. So the whole society is combination of cheater and cheated.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything is natural...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...they call radio-active elements.

Prabhupāda: Everything is natural. What you have produced? Everything is natural production.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, based on these elements, they calculate, they can calculate, they say very exactly the, how old the earth is. How old is the...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We know how old the earth is.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How old it is?

Prabhupāda: Just like earth is at the beginning of Brahmā's life. Now Brahmā's life, you cannot calculate even one twelve hours. So how you'll calculate? He has to live for a hundred years. So now, at the present moment, if his one day's calculation is mid-day now, at the present moment...

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So then how do you say that life is from matter? That cannot be proved by experiment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why they are going to prove it. They are trying to prove it.

Prabhupāda: Then again, "going to prove." They cannot prove, they'll not not admit it.

Sujit: See, astrology, I think, what he said is half true. Astrology is a science but it is not an exact science like mathematics and chemistry.

Prabhupāda: No, No, it is mathematics. Astrology is simply based on mathematics. Exactly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: To calculate the planetary...

Prabhupāda: Just see. The comet...

Sujit: It is from astronomy.

Prabhupāda: Astronomy, yes. Astrology is part of astronomy. Yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Maybe...

Satsvarūpa: Agnostic, "There may be; we don't know."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: "There may be God, but we don't know."

Prabhupāda: That you don't know, but if somebody knows... That is not a proof, that because you cannot see. That is not proof.

Nitāi: No. They just... They make this theory based on the fact that the most advanced that they've seen so far is man.

Prabhupāda: Who is advanced? Nobody is advanced unless one has seen or known God. That is actually advancement. They're putting so many theories... I have not seen. Why shall I believe you? You are talking so many nonsense which is not in my experience. Why shall I believe you? Hm?

Nitāi: Well, then they, then they'll tell you that, "Well, come and we'll show you this experiment."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Nitāi: We show you these experiments, and then you can see too.

Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You show, make experiment, that from the monkey's body a man is coming. Show me the experiment. Nobody has seen the experiment.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: First, according to Bhagavad-gītā, most importance is śraddhā... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...jñānam. So that is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. Atha bhajana-kriyā. These are the step by step. Atha anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ athāsaktis tato bhāvas sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the krama. Krama-pāṭha. Everything is there in our Vedic literature. One has to study cool-headed, and he'll get the things. (break) ...ment of Kṛṣṇa consciousness or spiritual consciousness is based on śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. If one actually has śraddhā, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa says like this, then I'll accept Kṛṣṇa." That is śraddhā. "Kṛṣṇa says... Oh, Kṛṣṇa says like this. Why shall I surrender to Him?" That is not śraddhā. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. If one accepts this principle, then there is śraddhā. That is explained by Caitanya-caritāmṛta (indistinct):

śraddhā-śabde—viśvāsa kahe sudṛḍha niścaya

kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya

(Cc. Madhya 22.62)

This is śraddhā. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa. Firm faith. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa has said that mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, I will accept it. I will accept it. Even I do not understand, I will accept it." That is called viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. And faith means kṛṣṇe bhakti, "If I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then my all perfection is there." This is called śraddhā.

Dr. Patel: I... Shall I ask you one thing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) As soon as...

Dr. Patel: What are the pāpas and what are the puṇyas?

Prabhupāda: Pāpa means so long you accept this material body.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: "When completely yourself are settled in Me, you have got to come to Me. You can't go anywhere else." Again I will read the last. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī.

Prabhupāda: Very simple thing. You always think of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā, you become His devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yājī, worship Kṛṣṇa, and namaskuru. Where is the cost? No expenditure. If you think of Kṛṣṇa, if you worship Kṛṣṇa, if you offer obeisances to Him... Therefore this Deity is there. For these purposes. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Simply by doing these four things, he is becoming liberated so much that he is going back to Godhead. That's all. (break) ...movement is very scientific movement, based on the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Most scientific. (break) We may be proud. Because this is scientific, therefore it is so quickly progressing. (break) ...take. This is mām cult. (break) ...so I was, that "I want to start this movement," I was talking. So he very much appreciated and he promised in writing that "As soon as I retire I shall join with you." He wrote me.

Dr. Patel: But then we have to tell him that "Come on, you are retiring. Join. And if you..."

Prabhupāda: That I wrote also. He was silent.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, ady anta, this creation. Before this creation, Kṛṣṇa was there. Kṛṣṇa was there. When the creation is going on, it is maintained by Kṛṣṇa, and when it is dissolved, then it enters into Kṛṣṇa. Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikam.

Dr. Patel: Aham ātmā guḍākeśa sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ.

Prabhupāda: "And I am ātmā, Guḍākeśa. I am ātmā. Therefore, because My part and parcel is spreading, so that part and parcel, particle, that is the basic principle of everything." Just like this body. This body is based on that part and particle, soul. Because the soul was there, the body has developed.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise body would perish. It does rot.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The body develops so long the ātmā is there. So similarly, because Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore whatever manifestation you see, that is due to Kṛṣṇa. Now here the latest theory of the rascals, that life has come from matter, is refuted.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is answered. "If I haven't got love for God, then why I am coming to church?"

Pañcadraviḍa: If you have love for God, why you are coming to church?

Prabhupāda: No. "Because I have got love for God, therefore I am coming to church. At that time I could have earned some money."

Pañcadraviḍa: But we're also teaching that this love, love is not just based on sentimentality. Love is also practical. Just like in this world, when there is relationship between man and woman, there is a practical exchange of love. It is not simply that love is only based on words. Also one is based on actions. We can judge how much a man is developing love by what his activities are.

Prabhupāda: "So what you have found in me that you have concluded that I have no love for God. What you have seen in me?"

Pañcadraviḍa: I have not concluded that... When I speak with a person, I do not say, "I have concluded that you have no love of God."

Prabhupāda: "You say. That you have charged, but on what account you say like that? What I have done?"

Nitai: Because you go to church only for one hour all week. The rest of the time is not spent in serving God.

Prabhupāda: That may be. But that does not mean that I do not love God.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Anyway, if you spread this God consciousness, this knowledge of God consciousness, philosophy of God consciousness...

Richard Webster: Yes, well, I'm going to write an article on that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhanañjaya: Mr. Webster has your Bhagavad-gītā, and reads it very intently. And a few days ago he came back for another copy which he recommended to his friends.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. You kindly try to spread. Everything, whatever we speak, our philosophy, this is based on this Bhagavad-gītā. That's all.

Richard Webster: It's very difficult when you're talking to Europeans. I mean...

Yogeśvara: But here we're not American or European.

Richard Webster: Yes, but I mean in the West it's a very different kind of difficulty...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere it is difficult because people have become godless. Still, we have to try our best. The task is difficult, undoubtedly. It is very difficult task, to bring back people to God consciousness. But still we have to do it to satisfy God. He wants it.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, not on the street. Some of the boys, they came to my hotel. So so far I saw, the people, they are very nice. They are very nice, but the government supresses their sentiments. Everyone has got religious sentiments. The people is as good as in other places. I don't find any difference. It is not that the whole Russia is atheist. It is not that. They are as others. They are like that. And our philosophy is that everyone is God conscious; simply it is being suppressed, either by the so-called leaders or by the influence of external energy, which is called māyā. We have got a verse in this Caitanya-caritāmṛta where it is said that nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. It is not an artificial thing. To make one God conscious is not artificial. God consciousness is there, even in the life of aborigines, most crude people. It has to be awakened by education. Śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. One has to be educated. And he should be given chance to hear about God. And then, as soon as he becomes purified in his consciousness, he accepts and begins to love God. So it is not an artificial thing. Either in Russia or any place, any human being, he has got dormant love for God. It has to be awakened by processes. Therefore I began: That process which quickly awakens that God consciousness and engages him in the service of the Lord, that is first-class religious system. Paro dharmaḥ. Paraḥ means first-class. But a simply sentiment will not help. Therefore religion must be based on philosophy, and my spiritual master used to say this, that "Philosophy without religion is mental speculation, and religion without philosophy is sentimental." They should be combined. Philosophy and religion must be... Or religion must be based on philosophy. Then it is perfect. We cannot separate these two things. Simple philosophical speculation will not help, and simple sentiments, rituals, formalities, will not also. They should be combined. So this combination is here in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the nonsense education, result is like that. Is that education? I first, when I saw in Honolulu University—all hippies, all the students, half naked and niggardly dressed. Why so many? They are all students. You see? It has become a fashion. This is the education. And one commissioner has... You have not seen our Harmonist prepared. Collapse.

Satsvarūpa: I saw it yesterday. The president of Temple University, he said this was good, this running naked.

Prabhupāda: And another has that "education has collapsed."

Dhanañjaya: They have lost all sense of moral values.

Prabhupāda: Animals. The whole material civilization is based on animalism. Therefore now they are coming as naked animals. The basic principle of the civilization is animalism. Now... It was covered by the progress of time. Now they are coming to be naked animals, that's all.

Yogeśvara: So this is another problem for Bhagavān's book.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Actually, God is giving us bread, not this "Communist Party." That's a fact. But they have no intelligence to reply these rascals. That's all. Therefore these isms, so-called isms, is good for the rascals, not for the intelligent man. Intelligent man will immediately ask, "Where is your equality?" And they cannot reply. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...also based on karma, that one man is meant to have more than another of material things? Is that an argument against...?

Prabhupāda: Is there any difficulty to understand? As soon as you say you become manager, that means his karma is better. Where is the difficulty to understand it? Why you appoint one man manager and one man worker? His capacity of karma is better. So where is the difficulty to understand? Better karma, better reward. It is going on.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, any reasonable man will find subject matter interesting. There is a statement of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra: (CC Adi 8.15) "Just consider and then give your judgement after studying the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu." It is never recommended to take it blindly. Karaha vicāra: "Just judge with reason and argument." And vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra: "If you consider it with logic and judgement, then you'll find it is sublime." (French)

Bhagavān: So an interpretation of a scripture, whether it be Bible or Bhagavad-gītā, cannot simply be an opinion, but it must be based on logic and reason.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the Bible it is said, "There was only word in the beginning." So in the beginning, there was word. That means that word is not the word of this material creation.

Yogeśvara: Just like these Guru Maharajis. They say you cannot chant the name Kṛṣṇa because it's simply a material sound. They say the name is material.

Prabhupāda: That's it. The rascal does not understand what is this sound. He does not see that there was word before creation.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: That this goes together. (German)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the thing is that if my life is based on false conception that "I am this body," so the bodily appreciation of beauty or any other thing, that is also false. That is also false. If I am not this body, then anything conceived in relation with this body, that is false. (German)

Vedavyāsa: He says that usually we see the body in connection with beauty or health. But there is another possibility, to use the body as a transparent medium to conceive the Absolute Truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained here. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. That means with this body you should not waste your time like the birds and beasts but utilize it for inquiring about the Absolute Truth. That is reality.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, we have no caste system.

Reverend Powell: Well, I'm sorry. The brāhmaṇa, the śūdras and so on, per se.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is qualification. This is a division according to... Find out the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Reverend Powell: Your base there is in Bombay?

Prabhupāda: My birthplace is in Calcutta.

Reverend Powell: Calcutta, ah. I was there many years ago, I knew...

Prabhupāda: You have been in Calcutta?

Reverend Powell: Yes, I have. I crossed from Karachi and Delhi, I went down to Agra, and I gather this...

Prabhupāda: Yes, for people coming from England to Australia, they passed through Calcutta or Bombay, like that.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Just like I am trying something, and some experienced man says, "Do like this." This is śabda-pramāṇa. The śabda-pramāṇa, one who knows, he says, "Do like this." The "Do like this," means śabda, sound, and it enters your ear, and you do adjustment. Therefore śabda-pramāṇa. Just like you are sleeping, and one is, another man is coming to kill you. And another friend says, "Get up, get up, get up! There is enemy. He is coming to kill you." Then you wake up. Therefore the sound is the pramāṇa, there was enemy. These are crude examples. When you are asleep, you cannot understand. You have got eyes, you have got hands, you have legs but no experience, but the ear gives you warning even if you are sleeping. There is enemy, your eyes cannot see, your hand cannot touch, but the ear can give you evidence, "Yes." As soon as you are awakened you say, "Yes, here is enemy. He is coming to kill me." Therefore the aural reception, sound reception, is the evidence. Knowledge received through authentic sound vibration, that is perfect.

Guest (1): Let's just say I would like to ask a question in this way. We don't doubt what you said, the assumption that individual ego is eternal and also subordinate to that which is eternal, hierarchically higher, nevertheless is the part of that which is the eternal reality. And that is (indistinct) that which you later developed. Question, sir: Is this statement what you made, a statement of fact based on direct perception, or it is something what follows traditional belief and is just the axiomatic basis of your philosophy or similar other philosophies of axiomatic basis.

Prabhupāda: No, this is axiomatic basis because you have to accept that your senses are imperfect. So you, by speculation, cannot have perfect knowledge. This is axiomatic truth.

Guest (1): With that epistemological truth, all right we may go along, and, as a matter of fact, doubt about the truths of direct sensual perception is the basis, one of models of scientific activity.

Prabhupāda: Direct perception...

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yes this is bhakti-yoga. Yes, bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yogena manasi. Bhakti-yogena manasi (SB 1.7.4). There is a verse in Bhāgavata. Real yoga means bhakti-yoga.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

Of all the yogis... There are different kinds of yogis. We receive this authorized version, that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. Of all the yogis, the first-class yogi is he who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always within the heart. Mad-gata antarātmanā, antarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate. That is our process. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so we're thinking of Kṛṣṇa. This is the first-class yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). In the Vedic... Yes. Dhyāna, meditation, means thinking of the Supreme. And that is real yoga, not this gymnastic. That is physical.

dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena

manasā paśyanti yaṁ yogino

yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsara-

gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ

(break) ...learned scholars, professors. Try to understand this movement, and let us cooperate. It is very important, scientific movement. It is not a mental concoction. Based on Vedic principle.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a driver necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ. There is a living entity, driver, within this body. That is the first instruction. Unless one understands this simple thing, he is an ass. There is no knowledge. Because everything is based on something fictitious. This is the first thing one has to learn, the scientists, that there is the driver which is missing. Or the driver is moving this body. And if the driver is educated, then he can move this body to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead. Then he becomes perfect. So we are educating the driver. We are not painting the tin car. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Mādhava: Does the scientist actually observe something external to his mind or does he only observe...

Prabhupāda: Speculation.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That theory, mathematics, you presented...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, this is...

Prabhupāda: His.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's his.

Prabhupāda: So it is very nice. You have dedicated to Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The second one is "Order Cannot Arise from Disorder." This will be based on mathematical arguments.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also Jad Prabhu's (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And third one is "The Statistical Disproof of Darwin's Theory." This is on advanced mathematics. That also Richard Prabhu's duty.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Maybe, even if you manipulate, then what you have done? You cannot create the soul, that is not possible. If you manipulate life then give the dead body again energy to rise up. Then we shall (admit) that you can manipulate. Otherwise it is false. If you are so expert in manipulation, then give the dead body life again. That is my request. If depend on others and you manipulating, this false knowledge will not help.

Guest (1): Swamiji, what actually I was coming to, most humbly, cannot spread to the (indistinct) science go together. It's not...

Prabhupāda: No, if science is really science, that is helpful. If science is based on wrong theory, then what is the use of that. Everything is wrong. So many mathematical calculation, if there is any item wrong, then whole thing is wrong.

Guest (1): So we are all moving in the darkness, ignorance, to begin with.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that if you admit then you will get knowledge. But that is not the position. You are falsely proud that you are very advanced in knowledge.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice, Purañjana. His city, his gates, various manifestation.

Devotee (4): Sometimes we are very encouraged because we find people, they come back to us. They say, "I have gotten this volume, and I'd like to have the first part" or "I'd like to have the Second Canto." I found that in the army base among the soldiers... I went to distribute at an army base with the soldiers. And one man saw me, and he came up, and he says, "Can I have the Second Canto? I liked the first one so much." It's enlivening for us.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they come and demand.

Tripurāri: More books, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: How does Kṛṣṇa consciousness relate to the Hindu religion? Because that is also based on the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not meant for the Hindus, but Kṛṣṇa appeared in Hindustan. Therefore it is the duty of all Hindus to know Kṛṣṇa first. And they also conscious. Every Hindu knows Kṛṣṇa. Every Hindu observes the Janmāṣṭamī, Kṛṣṇa's birthday. But they are not very serious to understand Kṛṣṇa as a follower. Just like Christian. They admit they are Christian but don't follow the Christian principles. So that Hindus are also like that. Nobody is following Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior person or superior position than Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And "God" means that. In the dictionary "God" means the Supreme Being. Supreme Being means nobody is greater than Him; nobody is equal to Him. That is called supreme. So here God personally says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). But this rascal will not accept. They will say, "No, here is another dini-kṛṣṇa." They will bring one competitor. That is going on. "God" means there cannot be any competitor. Nobody is equal to Him; nobody is greater than Him. But they will bring so many competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa alone will be God?" This is the position of the modern Hindus. They have lost their own culture, and they wanted to imitate Western culture. That they could not do, neither they could maintain their own culture. Therefore in the wilderness, very precarious condition.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Formerly your country was part of India, and you belong to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Āryan? So Āryan culture was practically all over the world. Āryan culture is based on God consciousness. So amongst the Āryans there is some conception of religion, either Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, Buddhist religion, Vedic religion, based on conception of God. So according to time, country, the ways of understanding may be little different, but the aim is God consciousness. That is Āryan civilization. So God is one; God cannot be two. So the features of God or angle of vision of God may be different. So they have been summarized in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Aside:) You can come forward. One feature of God is impersonal. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spreading all over the universe. It is impersonal. But the quality of the sunshine is heat and light. The heat and light means energy. So as in the material calculation, the heat and light is the cause of all creation. Just like at the present moment there is not sufficient heat; therefore the trees have no leaves. And as soon as there will be little more heat they will be all green. So you can take it that the creation of the foliage is due to the heat. Similarly light. So heat and light is the cause of all this material creation. And heat and light is coming from the sunshine, er, sun. Therefore heat becomes the origin of creation even in this material world. Similarly, there is another light. That is the original light. This is reflection. That is called brahmajyoti, spiritual light. So in this way one conception of God is like that. Another conception of God is: God is situated everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham. Because God is situated within the universe, within the atom, therefore they are existing. Just like the ātmā, or spirit soul, is situated in you, in me, in everyone. This is called Paramātmā feature. And at the ultimate end there is the person, God as person, the Supreme Person, the Supreme Being, a person like you and me—we are person—but He is almighty, all-powerful. This is the conception of Absolute Truth: God, Paramātmā, and Brahmājyoti. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). This is the Sanskrit word. He is realized as Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is person; Paramātmā is all-pervading, means localized, situated; and Brahman means all-pervading. All together-God. This is the idea.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Jñānam means theoretical, vijñānam means practical.

Devotee (1): Saṅkīrtana movement is vijñānam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) (break) He is in goodness but sometimes he is attacked by the other two base qualities, passion and ignorance. Then he falls down. Where there is chance of being contaminated, that is not pure goodness. Pure goodness is never contaminated. That is (unclear).

Amogha: So pure goodness actually means those eight qualities mentioned in the Gītā but without any contamination of the lower qualities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the material world, goodness is prone to be contaminated. In the spiritual world, the other two qualities, they are not existing. So there is no question of contamination. Here all men are covered by these two base qualities, all men and animal, everyone, passion and ignorance. Therefore, first of all, they have to be brought to the platform of goodness. And if they can keep goodness uncontaminated, they are transferred to the spiritual world.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Vedic literature. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti means Vedas. What is that? That is another island?

Devotee: That's the Kaneohe marine base.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Guru kṛpā: A marine base, army base.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Śrutakīrti: They have missiles.

Guru kṛpā: In these mountains, and the mountain opens, the missile comes out. It's ready to be fired, atomic missiles. This whole island is nothing but army bases. The Japanese in the World War II, they first came here and bombed.

Prabhupāda: Pearl Harbor.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: You see? They want to draw some salary, big salaries, by bluffing the government and the public. This is their business. They are failing. They have finished their business on this planet; now they are going another planet. These are nonsense. (break) They know that "We... So as far as possible, we have bluffed. Now our business in this planet is finished. So let us go to another planet." This is going on.

Paramahaṁsa: Even if they wanted to stop this space project, they couldn't stop because they've already spent billions of dollars for making equipment and rocket ships and launching pads and rocket bases and so many employees. If they stop, then so much would be wasted, so many people would be unemployed. So they have to continue even if they know that it's a bluff.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.

Paramahaṁsa: One lie leads to another.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...are going to Venus, Americans and Russians combined together?

Ambarīṣa: This summer.

Prabhupāda: Oh, in the summer. Venus is very cold? Why they have selected summer season? (laughter) (break) ...could not go to the moon, and Venus is far above moon. How they will go?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But we say, "Any position on the mental platform, it is all nonsense." Mano-rathena sato dhavato bahiḥ.

Harikeśa: So the mind of a devotee is based on the activities of his spiritual practices.

Prabhupāda: Mind of a devotee is upon Kṛṣṇa. So what they will understand, that mind is in Kṛṣṇa? What they will understand?

Harikeśa: So according to different transcendental emotions, the mind will be agitated or calm or...?

Prabhupāda: It is not mind. It is spirit soul. You also do not understand.

Harikeśa: That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual platform is different. But the spiritual activities expressed through mind, through body, through intelligence. That's it.

Harikeśa: Yes. So that will bewilder them, this expression.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: This expression through the..., it will bewilder them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: More money is spent on food for dogs in the United States than for babies.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) In the recent food crisis in the United States, 18% of the people started eating dog food because there's so much... They use such high quality beef and based on so many grains and everything. And they use grains themselves. Milk products. (break) They're even learning how to eat dog food. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...dogs in the beach, you cannot walk without seeing dog. More footprints of the dogs than human being.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: I have yet to look into the material that I'm presenting to the devotees but my experience with them is that as they are into the movement longer and longer and become deeper involved in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, just exactly that is happening, that their material nature seems to become much more relaxed and...

Prabhupāda: Yes, there will be no more material activities. Just like you take a iron rod and put into the fire. It becomes warm, warmer, and at last it becomes red hot. When the iron rod is red hot, it is no longer iron rod. It is fire. If you touch the iron rod, red hot, anywhere, it will act as fire. Similarly, if you engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa activity the mind becomes Kṛṣṇaized gradually, and when he is advanced, there is no material activities, all spiritual activities. Just like here in this temple there is no material activities. And material activities means based on this illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. Here you will not find anything of this.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That "American" that I have discussed. Those who are in the bodily concept of life, they are not even human being. They are animals. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). One who takes this body, "I am, I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian," they are animals. They are not even human being. When you deny, that "I am not American, I am not Indian, not Englishman. I am not this body," then he is in the spiritual body. That's all. And so long he will identify that "I am this body, and because my body is American, therefore I am American," that is animal life. That is not even human life. So that is going on all over the world, identifying the body as self. "I am American, I am German, I am Englishman, I am Indian." The whole United Nation is based on this conception. So where is the unity? If you are thinking as "American" or "Indian" or "Pakistani" or "German," so where is the question of unity? But they have manufactured a false method, United Nations, by lecturing. Just like if you bring a dozen of dogs and ask them, "Live peacefully," will they live peacefully? They will bark, "Ow! Ow! Ow!" So this is going on. If you keep them as they are, dogs, how you can expect unity? So they should not remain as dogs. They should come to become human beings, then there is question of... But they want to keep them as dogs, and at the same time, they want to unite. Therefore it is unsuccessful.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh. How far it is from our palace?

Jayatīrtha: About half an hour, I think. It is between several big towns. And it's very centrally located for saṅkīrtana all over France.

Prabhupāda: Oh, we can go here and there.

Jayatīrtha: Yeah. They're going to use that as the saṅkīrtana base for our traveling saṅkīrtana all over France.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Jayatīrtha: Parties will go out for a few weeks and then come back. So it's very good.

Prabhupāda: What is the climate now? It is cold?

Jayatīrtha: It's nice during the day and a little cold at night.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like they are working. And if he falls down in the sattva-guṇa, then he at least keeps himself in the knowledge that "I am fire. I do not belong to this dull material." So therefore we have to bring him again to the sattva-guṇa, brahminical qualification, so that he can understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. I am not this matter." So then his spiritual activity begins. Therefore we are trying to bring him to the platform of sattva-guṇa, means to give up the business of rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa: no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling, so many no's, to deny him the influence of material qualities. Then, if he is situated in the sattva-guṇa, then he remains on the platform of... When he remains on the plat..., sattva-guṇa, then the rajas-tamaḥ, the other base qualities, cannot disturb him. The base quality, the platform of base quality is this: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. So tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaṣ ca ye (SB 1.2.19). When one is free from at least to these base qualities... Base quality means kama, lusty desires, and greediness. In material world, generally, they are under these base quality, means always filled up with lusty desires and not satisfied, greedy. So when we conquer over these base qualities, then we become happy. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaṣ ca ye, ceta etair anaviddham. When the consciousness is not influenced by these base qualities, ceta etair ana..., sthitaḥ sattve prasīdati, being situated on the platform of sattva-guṇa, he feels happy. That is the beginning of spiritual life. When... So long the mind is disturbed by lusty desires and greediness, there is no question of spiritual life. Therefore the first business is how to control the mind so that it may not be influenced by the base quality, lusty desires and greediness. We have seen in Paris old man, seventy-five years old, he is going to the night club. Because the lusty desire is there. He pays fifty dollars for entering the club, and then he pays further for other things. So even he is seventy-five years old, the lusty desire is there.

Dr. John Mize: Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they're not foolish, they don't fall down? Prabhupāda: No, there are... Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Mode of goodness. Just like not that everyone can become a philosophy professor. It requires certain qualification. But everyone can become also. Everyone got the chance. Provided he is qualified, then he can take the post of a philosophy professor. Everyone has got the chance, not that you have got only the chance. Anyone has got the chance. But not that without having a certain qualification, one can become. Similarly, these thing will remain puzzling unless one comes to the qualification of goodness. Therefore we order our disciples, "Come to the platform of goodness. Give up all this nonsense habit." Then it will be possible.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Let him ask. (pause) Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ (SB 1.2.19). Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you find out this verse, First Canto. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. So abhadreṣu, prāyeṣu. We are now covered with base qualities. So when these base qualities are finished, not altogether, almost finished, then one can come to the platform of sattva-guṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means one has to come to the platform of brāhmaṇa. Then he can enter into devotional service. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param (BG 18.54). In that brāhminical state he sees every living entity as part and parcel of God. That is samaḥ, equality. He does not see like this, that the human being has soul and the cow has not soul. He does not see like that. He sees the cow has soul, the ant has soul, the elephant has soul, the tree has soul, the human being has soul. That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. By ignorance he thinks that "The tree has no soul; the cow has no soul; the animal has no soul; simply we have got soul." That is ignorance, base quality. But when you come to the pureness of goodness, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, this qualification will arise. So a devotee is not willing to kill even an ant because he knows that "He is also soul, part and parcel. By his karma, he has become ant, I have become a human being. So I am the same soul; he is the same soul. He is different body. He is suffering in that way. I have got different body. I am also suffering, but I am thinking I am enjoying." That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. What is the meaning, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu?

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Now there's a warrant for his arrest. What he can do? And he is God? God is so cheap and you have accepted him as God? What is this nonsense? But we give you credit, that you are searching after God. That is... So try to understand by education. What is this nonsense, blindly accepting some rascal as God? Everyone knows God is great. Is he great? Then why he is punished by the court? This is the park?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And very nice park. And not far away. (break) ...interested with this natural history. That means Darwin's theory. That's all. Their whole civilization is based on this Darwin's theory. How long you shall keep history? Do you know what is the history of the sun, when it was created, when it came into appearance? Can Darwin give us the history of the sun, of the moon, of the sky? Where is the history? There is history, but where is your history? You simply imagine, "There was a chunk, and it became manifested as the sun, moon, and I am also this..." What is this? How this cosmic manifestation came into existence—your explanation is: "There was a chunk." And what other nonsense?

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Gross body means no hunger?

Devotee (2): When a person's in sattva-guṇa, he's not so much feeling the pain...

Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is sattva-guṇa. Naṣṭa-prayeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, but when he is in sattva-guṇa, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. (break) ...you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa, the other base qualities cannot disturb you. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Other guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa. Then you go advance more and more. (break) ...hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. (break) ...world is going on on rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere. This is the age of forgetting God. We say it is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means the age of misunderstanding. And that is, I said, dirty things within the heart. So God is so powerful that if we chant the holy name of God, then we become purified. So our movement is based on this principle, chant the holy name of God. We give all facilities to everyone without any distinction that "You come with us. Come in our temple, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and take little prasādam, refreshment, and gradually you become purified." So if the government authorities give us facilities for this business, that we hold mass saṅkīrtana, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and give them little prasādam, then we are sure the whole place will change.

Lt. Mozee: If I understand you then correctly, sir, you would say that the emphasis should be returned to the religious aspects.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Without religious aspect what is the difference between dog and man? Man can be turned to be a religious man, the dog cannot be. That is the difference between dog and man. So if you keep the human society to the status of dogs and cats, how you can expect peaceful society? If you bring one dozen of dogs and if you want to keep them peacefully, is it possible? So if we keep human society as dogs, then how you can expect peacefulness?

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Just convince him.

Jayatīrtha: So do you understand? The idea is that this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is based on authority of the Vedas. And the Vedic literatures are coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. So we only accept it as truth what Kṛṣṇa says and we don't accept anybody's mental concoctions or speculations as being truth. And this is the problem with so many other religious movements today, that they depend on the interpretation or the...

Prabhupāda: Concoction.

Jayatīrtha: ...philosophy of some ordinary man. So this is the primary differential.

Prabhupāda: We don't say anything which is not spoken by God in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is appealing everywhere. Although it is in Sanskrit language, still, it is appealing. Just like if you go on the street and the signboard is, "Keep to the right," this is law. I cannot say, "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then I am criminal. You cannot dictate. The government has said, "Keep to the right." You have to do that, that is law. If you violate, then you are criminal. Pay fine. But ordinarily, one may think, "What is the wrong there, instead of keeping right, if I keep to the left?" He may think like that, but he doesn't know that is criminal.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: So all relationships in this material world are...

Prabhupāda: Inimical.

Bahulāśva: Based on this enemy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: Even the so-called love.

Prabhupāda: No, that is lust. That is not love. And as soon as my lusty desire is not fulfilled, then you are my enemy. (break) If we take shelter of any materialistic person, that is like to take the..., capture the tail of a dog and try to swim over the Pacific Ocean. It is like that. (break)

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: ...ing that we should not give people anything other than Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: And what you have to give? First of all you consider what you have to give. What you have got to give?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Not faith. It is fact. He is seeing every day.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists will argue...

Prabhupāda: That is faith—means on knowledge. So faith with knowledge is very good. But beginning must be faith, with knowledge or without knowledge.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists will argue that Kṛṣṇa consciousness won't be scientifically accepted if it's just based on...

Prabhupāda: The scientists, how they can argue like that? Therefore they are rascals. First of all they explain something theoretically: "Hydrogen, oxygen-mix together it becomes water." It is faith. Then it is practically shown in the laboratory. So faith is the beginning. Theoretical knowledge means faith. Then experiment.

Baradrāj: The Vedic knowledge is also that way, very scientific.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the faith must be there. Without faith, you cannot go.

Paramahaṁsa: So actually that's what scientific knowledge, at least the atheistic science, is based upon, that on one hand the theists believe in faith, that there is a Supreme. But the atheist believes that "Undoubtedly there cannot be because we have not seen one."

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. The same example can be applied, that you have not gone there. How can I pay you? First of all let me go there. Then I shall pay," he may say. But he will, "Get out. First of all pay. Then you come on." (laughter) That's it.

Citsukhānanda: When we were first coming to this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we opened Bhagavad-gītā. Myself, I read. I said, "I don't understand this." So I began to clean the floor, wash the dishes, cut the vegetables...

Prabhupāda: Yes, very good.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you will never discover the cure, and he will never come out. Now somebody was saying that this freezing, the body within, they decompose. The parts of the body are separate. That is... As we have... You take the frozen vegetable. It is tasteless. It is decomposed.

Paramahaṁsa: So actually it comes down to what Tamāla Kṛṣṇa asked. For example, the scientists may say, "Well, you say that we have a life after death, that we should conquer over death, but I cannot see it. I cannot see anyone who has come back."

Prabhupāda: You cannot see even what is there after hundred years. What is the value of your eyes? Why you are proud of your eyes?

Paramahaṁsa: So you say it's based on faith.

Prabhupāda: Not faith, it is fact. Just like if somebody says me, "The other side is Japan." I cannot see, so I may disbelieve. But that's a fact; Japan is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But others have seen.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to hear from a person who has seen.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give him some prasāda.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: There is so much mismanagement in different parts of the world that there are so many revolutions now in all parts of the world including India, Africa and even the United States. There are so many problems based on the fact that their food grains and milk supply are not being supplied nicely or distributed nicely. Now, supposing that there is a demand that there should be good management for it, how these things should be distributed properly, by what system, so that people can get these things in a way that they can become God conscious and at the same time have their...?

Prabhupāda: God consciousness does not depend on distribution of food. It requires cultural education. It does not mean that one who has got enough food, he is God conscious. The food distribution is not one of the conditions for becoming God conscious. That is wrong project. "If people are given sufficient food, they will become God conscious"—that is not the fact. But people advance this theory, that "We are now economically distressed. We cannot turn our attention to God consciousness." That is a wrong plea. God consciousness does not depend on any material condition.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ha. (break) ... putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva. Our existentional position should be purified. How? Tapo, by tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva (SB 5.5.1). "And we are enjoying life. Why we should undergo tapasya?" And you are enjoying, but you are not enjoying; you are suffering. Even if you think you are enjoying, there are so many sufferings. That the foolish people, they do not know. Just like a healthy man, he thinks, "I am enjoying," but he does not see that even he is now healthy, he will be an old man, he will be attacked with disease, he will die, and still he thinks, "I am healthy." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Therefore the intelligent man will see that "Where is my enjoyment if I am going to die? I don't want to die, but I am going to die." That is sure, as sure as anything. And still the rascal will think that "I am happy." He will become old man, he will be attacked with disease, and still he is thinking that he is happy. Apart from this, there are so many other sufferings, but he thinks that he is happy. And that happiness is centered around sex. That's all. Yan maithunadi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Their only happiness is sex. Therefore in the Western countries they are simply trying to increase the sex enjoyment. That's all. Is it not?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The whole civilization is based on how to enjoy sex very nicely. This is their basic principle of civilization.

Brahmānanda: Always on the best-seller charts of the books there is always some book about how to enjoy sex.

Prabhupāda: Just see. There are books here also, Kāma-śāstra. So sex enjoyment also you cannot enjoy unlimitedly. Then you will become impotent. Then you will have to call your wife as "mother," as some saintly person did. He was indulging in sex in his young age, and when he was married he saw himself impotent, and therefore he invented some way that "I have realized Brahman. I can call my wife also 'mother.' " And he became famous—"Oh, he is so advanced. He has learned how to..." But in the history we will not find this. Even Vyāsadeva had his wife, but he never said his wife, "mother."

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, freedom, if I have got already, why shall I pay? I have already paid. Why you're inducing? I am already enjoying. Why you are inducing me to work hard? I have paid for it. By my karma in my previous life I have already paid for that; therefore I am enjoying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't believe in the law of karma.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization: one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population why you are inducing "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life—brahmacārī. Everything is contradictory. And it is all sense gratification, based on sense gratification.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person is not satisfying his senses they think he is crazy.

Prabhupāda: But where is your sense satisfied? You are crazy. You are repeatedly being kicked by nature, that your senses will never be satisfied. Still, you are trying for that. Even the old man of eighty years old, he is going to the nightclub. Where is sense satis... When his senses will be satisfied? (aside) Jaya. Relaxation. If somebody is relaxing, chanting, they will induce, "Oh, you are escaping."

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And the body. But Gandhi has never said anywhere.

Dr. Patel: He was always, you know, anāsakta-yoga.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right, but...

Dr. Patel: He always used to, daily, twice...

Prabhupāda: In the beginning this is the... You can have any yoga, anāsakti or āsakti, but the primary instruction is one has to understand first of all this, that one is not this body. And the national movement is based on this bodily concept of life. "I am Indian."

Dr. Patel: All the national... All the world's on that body.

Prabhupāda: So that is the difference. First of all one has to understand that he is neither Indian nor American nor English. But if you go on pushing on national movement, where is the chance of understanding that you are not this body? Just like our movement, we never say anything national. We simply state that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul."

Morning Walk -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Did you understand the words, "The blind leading the blind"? Do you agree? (break) ...culture, the basic principle is mistaken, bodily concept of life. How it can be perfect? (break) ... world's present so-called culture based on misconception. Therefore it cannot be perfect. Whatever they are doing, it is failure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can't satisfy anyone. Now people are under the conception that culture means that you can satisfy anything you like, any desire. Therefore there is birth control and so many things. So they are thinking that "If we can satisfy all of our desires, it is very nice culture."

Prabhupāda: But where is satisfaction?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: No, no, before that also. But that habit was controlled by Indian culture.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I see.

Prabhupāda: That is the specific position of Vedic culture. The habit, that tendency is there, but by Indian Vedic culture these base tendencies are checked and they are made, I mean to say, given opportunity to advance. That is brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas voluntarily rejected all these. That is ideal, that "Here is an idea!" But here at the present moment there is no such idea! Everyone is after material enjoyment. There is no ideal that "Here is a person who doesn't care for anything. Still he is so exalted." That is wanted. That ideal is not now. Therefore I am trying to create such ideal men.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: He remains an animal. Just like a dog is thinking, "I am dog." So similarly, if I think, "I am Hindu," then what is the difference? Or if I am thinking, "I am this or that," with the bodily conception of life... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is thinking in terms of bodily conception—"I am this body"—and based on this foundation, sva-dhī kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, our family, society, national, so many things we are building up on this bodily conception of life... So,

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

Such person is no better than the cow and the asses because he is giving his identification with this body, which he is not. And Vedic realization is ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body; I am spirit soul."

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Dogmatic, no. Why we should waste our time talking with such foolish men? "I don't believe." No, what... You believe or not believe; fact is fact. You are going to be old man. If you say "I don't believe," then is that a very good proposition? It does not depend on your believing or not believing. The nature's course will take place. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That will go on. What is there in your believing and not believing? If you keep yourself in such darkness that "If you believe, then it is fact," then you are a fool, rascal. If you depend only on your belief, then you are a fool. What is the meaning of your belief? "I believe if I touch fire it will not burn." Will this belief protect me? You touch fire; it will burn. You believe or not believe. What is this argument, "We don't believe"? This is going on. If nature's law is that you must die, then if you believe, "No, I'll not die," will that belief protect you? You have to submit to the nature's law. Why don't you understand this? You are talking of "believe and not believe." Whole world is going on in this way: "We think," "I suppose," "Perhaps," "I believe," like this. Where is science? Science does not depend on your "belief, not belief, supposing, perhaps." This is not science. But they are going on like that. Whole Darwin's theory is based on this, "Maybe millions of years past..." We want perfect knowledge, not such, what is called, saṁśayam. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, asaṁśayaṁ, "without any doubt." That is knowledge. And samagram, "complete." So if we have got the chance of knowing complete, without any doubt, so why shall I go to you, rascal? Your knowledge is based on "perhaps, maybe." I will have to go somewhere to take knowledge, so why not go to Kṛṣṇa, where the knowledge is complete and without any doubt? Why shall I go to you, you rascal? You simply say "maybe, perhaps, I think." What is the use of this knowledge? We don't accept. You cannot say that "You are right; I am wrong" because you are also going to somebody to get knowledge, I am also going to somebody to get knowledge. So here it assured, that "complete knowledge without any doubt." But you have no such confidence. Am I right or not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The difficulty arises in... We say, well, you have to grow old. And then we say the moon is so high above the sun. So...

Prabhupāda: So how can you deny it? First of all tell me. You have not gone there.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, scientific reality. Therefore I raised that question. But nobody could reply properly. They thought it a kind of Hindu conception. No. That is not Hindu conception. That is the basic principle of living condition. We are changing body, and there are so many varieties of body. We may enter in any one of them after death. That is the real problem. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's work is going on. This body is a machine. This machine, just like a car, has been offered to us by material nature, by the order of God, Kṛṣṇa. And we are moving, transmigration. So the real purpose of life is to stop this migration, transmigration, perpetually from one body to another, one body to another, and revive our original, spiritual position so that we can live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. That is the aim of life. The whole Vedic conception is based on this principle.

Prof. Olivier: How do you...? This...your concept of reincarnation, how do you reconcile reincarnation with this attempt to...

Prabhupāda: So long you'll have desire for material...

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Primitive, yes. But primitive meat-eating is continued. That is not to be stopped, primitive drinking and meat-eating.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like a tissue, Srila Prabhupada? A tissue?

Prabhupāda: No. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: … it is misdirected and simply based on sense gratification, has no purpose. So people may question us that we are putting forward a civilization which India had practiced for thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: Why you speak of India?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, because when we speak of Vedic culture, at least contemporarily speaking, people think of India. Even few hundred years ago, all the ācāryas…

Prabhupāda: All right, India. Then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it's not working in India today. Although theoretically it's perfect, practically it's not working.

Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the villages?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India's civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages. In the evening there would be bhdgavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas, and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause) So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hate everything Indian.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the policy of education. So as soon as one became graduate and educated, he began to hate everything Indian original, and if he would get some clerk's business, service in some office, and his life is successful. That is still going on.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one wants to increase the material standard of living, then they should increase also sex life. And this is what they are doing in India today.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without sex life one cannot be materially enthusiastic. And if you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced. This is the secret. If you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex life, then you will be materially enthusiastic. That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture. The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex life, and here in the Western countries, how to increase sex life. They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine. These things will enthuse sex life. And as soon as you get very satisfactory sex life, you become enthused to work hard. Therefore karmīs, marriage is necessary, because without sex life they cannot work. And for jñānīs, yogis, bhaktas, sex life prohibited. Actually they do not know the science of life, this Western civilization. Their life means this body. Their life means this body. That means they do not know what is life. And as soon as the life is gone, the body is there—they cannot explain. This is their ignorance. Why the life is stopped? And they are very proud of advancement. And bring in life again. That they cannot do. That means the whole basic principle is ignorance. Mūḍha nābhijānāti. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12).

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know what is knowledge. The knowledge means sex life. That is their knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means how to enjoy sex life, how to take shelter of abortion, child-killing, and then contraceptive method—whole thing on the basis of sex life. That's all. They do not know except these things. They know there is botheration after sex life, but they cannot give it up. Therefore all these arrangements: take contraceptive, kill child, and what... That means the whole thing is based on sex life. That's all. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Is that pleasure? They think it is pleasure to unite the urinals. (laughter) And this is pleasure, a standard of pleasure most third class, fourth class. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhi sukhaṁ tuccham: very abominable. Tuccham, the śāstra says, "most abominable." And they take it pleasure, and they make arrangement for this. When the dog enjoys sex life... Therefore they are allowed to do it on the street. People can see it. Is that very nice scene? The same thing is done by the human being, and they are taking: "This is all, everything." This is basic principle of their happiness. That's all. Mohinī, mohinī. This is captivation. And nature has made the woman's face so attractive, beautiful, their breast, their hips, attractive, their sound, talking, singing, all very attractive, walking, and now they are dressing naked. They are showing simply the vagina, all other parts of the body clothed. This is going on. Whole thing is based on sex life, and that is tuccham, most abominable. Prakṛtiṁ mohinīṁ śritāḥ. It will take three hundred times births to understand that this sex life is abominable. Therefore it is bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Not that immediately, simply by hearing our Bhagavad-gita lecture, they will give it up. It will take many, many births to understand. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. In the Vedic system, sex life is allowed only for begetting children. Therefore they are... Restriction. Allowed, but with great restriction under religious rules and regulation and so many things, garbhādāna. Then the first principle is, even it is taken for begetting child, it is not secret.

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I cannot correct you.

Dr. Patel: You? You cannot be correct...? Why I should not be corrected? Because the philosophy must encompass the whole life, not a part of it. All Western philosophers, only except Schopenhauer and Eckhart, they only thought about the waking stage. They have never thought about the dream and the deep sleep stage and the stage beyond the three. None of them, excepting Eckhart of Germany. So the Western philosophers are all wrong or partially true. (break) The Western philosophers have never thought about the three other stages, none of them.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...philosophy rejects any philosophy based on thinking.

Dr. Patel: But you see thinking is an apparatus which takes you beyond thinking.

Prabhupāda: That is another.

Dr. Patel: That takes you beyond thinking. You cannot go beyond thinking without thinking to be taken as a fact.

Prabhupāda: But thinking must be intelligent thinking.

Morning Walk -- November 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Later on.

Yaśomatī-nandana: Later on. These scholars, these mundane scholars, those who have studied Bhagavad-gītā, they accept that Bhagavad-gītā is based around bhakti principle.

Prabhupāda: So how it came later on?

Yaśomatī-nandana: That they are rascal. That they don't.

Prabhupāda: And what was the beginning?

Yaśomatī-nandana: All these Vedas and everything.

Prabhupāda: No, Bhagavad-gītā? They say, "later on."

Brahmānanda: Who was the first...

Yaśomatī-nandana: He says that it was the Vaisnavites who introduced Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Then why Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā? He is not a Vaiṣṇava.

Yaśomatī-nandana: That they cannot answer.

Prabhupāda: Then they're foolish.

Yaśomatī-nandana: That they cannot answer.

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya has accepted Bhagavad-gītā. Śaṅkarācārya accepted Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. Sa bhagavān svaya kṛṣṇaḥ. He has written.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Śrīdhara: Without sex pleasure a man and a woman would not be attracted to one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Attraction means that sex. There is no other. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedī sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the psychology. There is no other happiness. Yan maithunādi gṛhamedhī sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). Their happiness is based on the center of sex pleasure.

Śrīdhara: So the body of a woman only reminds of the sex pleasure.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Body of man or woman. The same thing. This is the only pleasure. In this material world, so-called pleasure means sex pleasure. Why they are working so hard day and night? Only for that sex pleasure. That is the center.