BG 07.14 daivi hy esa guna-mayi... cited (Con)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Māyā is imposing so many difficulties, but as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, no more imposition.

Śyāmasundara: We are so foolish that we are always thinking, "In the future I'll be happy."

Gurudāsa: That Devasa(?) boy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is...

Prabhupāda: That means you are struggling. That means you are in miserable condition. So why you are put into miserable condition? Why do they not ask this question? This is intelligence. You are submitting. You are trying to get out of the miserable condition, but you are unable. You are submitting. Therefore nature is very forceful. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass. It is not possible. Then the next question will be: "How we can surpass?" That is real inquiry.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...we can surpass.

Brahmānanda: Oh, the misery.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Miserable conditions.

Prabhupāda: The miserable conditions. So miserable condition is called māyā. The answer is in the Bhagavad-gītā, how we can surpass. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Clear answer. "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he can get out of this miserable condition offered by the māyā." They're eating the wet sand...(?) Again trying. This is struggle for existence. Survival of the fittest. Who survives? Who is the living entity who has surpassed the tribulations of material nature. Where is the fit? Darwin's theory: survival of the fittest. Who is that fit? Nobody's fit.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like the police car was there. We have nothing to do with it. But if you do anything criminal, immediately you will be arrested, under police custody. The māyā may be there, but māyā captures him who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, māyā does not interfere anymore."

Paramahaṁsa: So our desire to enjoy, we achieve these bodies; and our desire to achieve Kṛṣṇa brings us to our natural position.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṣīne puṇye punaḥ martya-lokaṁ viśanti. So why should we waste our time. Even I become Brahmā, again we have to come.

Guest (5): (Hindi) Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), kṣurasya dhara niśita duratyayā.

Prabhupāda: Duratyayā mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. (Hindi) But if there is physician, it can be cured. So that is there said: daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā. Very difficult. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. So why don't you do that.

Guest (5): Tam eva śaraṇaṁ gaccha sarva-bhāvena bhārata.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Prabhupāda: Therefore the ultimate solution is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even sva-dharma. "Just surrender unto Me. I'll give you protection." Sarva-dharmān means sva-dharma, including, that "You have to give up your sva-dharma. Don't... You cannot act as a brāhmaṇa, you cannot act as a kṣatriya, neither you are brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya. All right, whatever dharma you have got, give it up. Just surrender unto Me. I'll give you protection." Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... This is the protection.

Guest (5): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation continues for some sentences.) Who is practicing this? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). He cannot be called a brāhmaṇa unless he acts according to his guṇa. If he's acting in differently, he should be... (break) ...utilized by the liberated person, still we can use it, provided we stop this process of animal killing. Then it will be very easier. This medicine... The doors will be... Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Therefore whoever comes to us to become our student, our first proposition is that "You should give up these four principles, illicit sex, animal-eating, gambling and intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee, cigarette."

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the whole problem is how to get out of the control of material nature. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Seventh Chapter. (pause)

Pradyumna:

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome, but those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."

Prabhupāda: So this thing we are teaching, how to get out of the control of the three modes of material nature, to put him into the transcendental platform. That is the success of life. And this chance is obtainable in the human form of life. If he misses this chance, again he becomes, suppose, a tree, or a cat, or a dog... There is every chance. Because it is under the control of material nature; according to my work and mentality, I'll get another body.

Śyāmasundara: Ignorance.

Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still... The danger is very much there, I see that. But there is a use.

Prabhupāda: Well, if the danger is there, why should we accept such use?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can we overcome that danger? We can try to overcome that danger.

Prabhupāda: You cannot ever overcome, because you are all weak. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Unless you are very strong, māyā is very, very stronger than you. How you can avoid it? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante. Only one is very, very strong in capturing the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, he can avoid. Otherwise it is not possible. All these Villa Parle, Juhu gentlemen, they are daily coming to their city business. And is it very difficult for us?

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (1): What do you think is the solution of these difficulties?

Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Māyā... Just like if there are criminals, then the police force will be increased, punishment will be increased, so similarly, human beings, they are becoming godless, so by nature there must be punishment. They will not be supplied food. The food supply will be restricted. After all, the food is in the hands of nature. You cannot produce food. You can produce bolts and nuts in the factory, but you cannot eat bolts and nuts. You have to eat rice and grains. So that restriction if there is...

Prabhupāda: The solution is to, back to home, back to Godhead. Otherwise there is no solution. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The stringent laws of māyā is very strong. You cannot surpass them. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is possible to get out of this entanglement. Otherwise it is not possible. They have tried so many ways and means to solve the problems, but they could not do anything.

Guest (1): Yes, corruption in the politics...

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: No, no, laws of nature if you want. If you want to be condemned, then laws of nature is there. Otherwise laws of nature is teaching you how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like police. Police business is to make you lawful. If you become lawful, there is no question of police. There is no question of police law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is kicking you one after another so that you may come to sense that "This life is not good." But we are so foolish that we say, "No, it is good." Yan maithunādi. "There is sex life. Oh, it is very good." This is the position.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: They are so stupid Prabhupāda that they do not recognize that the most important things in life is birth, death, old age and disease. And if they really want to conquer the nature, they should try to conquer birth, death, old age and disease.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).

Yaśomatīnandana: Duratyayā, very hard to overcome.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible.

Hṛdayānanda: They have a whole new department called gerontology to stop death. In one article they had about twenty different methods, and they said all of them, none of them have succeeded yet. But they were very confident.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: But because in all material examples there are exceptions, they say. In all material examples there are exceptions, so they try to find that exception.

Prabhupāda: Many exceptions are there, mām eva ye prapadyante. Those who are devotee, they are not under māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not violate the laws of God... (break) ...there is no question of being... (break)...by māyā. If you surrender... (break) ...ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). (break) ...if the government protects everyone who is surrendered to the laws of the God, government. The government will give all protection. If he is a law-abiding citizen, he must be given protection, all protection.

Hṛdayānanda: You're too intelligent for the atheists, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How do we bring them to their senses?

Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious and everything will be solved. How we are speaking? Because we have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti, as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, all this māyā, misconception, will go. You'll become right person, in knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to become perfect man. Because there is guidance, the perfect guidance, so he becomes perfect. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (break) This is the statement in Bhāgavata. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram: (SB 7.5.30) "Because they cannot control their senses, therefore they are making progress towards the darkest region of hell." Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita: "And repeatedly chewing the chewed." They make one plan. It is frustrated. Again make another plan. That is frustrated.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Equation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this, this whole material world is going on under physical law. That is called guṇamayī. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Everything is going on... It is exactly... Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. So it is... Just like the sun is also rotating in its orbit, sixteen thousand miles per second, but it has got a fixed time, how long it will rotate by the order of the Supreme. This is physical law. And when, when He wants, everything will withdraw. All physical, finished.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: So this materialist, the so-called scientist, he's thinking, "There is no God. We are independent." So many things, like rascal they are thinking. Foolish rascal, childish. And that is illusion. Ahaṅkāra-vimudhātmā. Therefore this very word is used, vimūḍhātmā: "befooled rascal." Actually, he's being controlled by material nature. So how to get out of this material nature? That is explained, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "As soon as that rascal surrenders unto Me, immediately he's out of control." Hare Kṛṣṇa. How these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians can refute this arrangement? Is it possible?

Bali-mardana: Yes, they refuse.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says that "This, My form, is not understood by common men."

Mr. Sar: Divyaṁ dadāmi te cakṣuḥ.

Dr. Patel: Mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).

Prabhupāda: But actually, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). So gradual process, go to the Absolute Truth—Brahman, Paramātmā, and last is Bhagavān. The Bhagavān realization is the real realization, not Brahman, not... This is partial. (looking at something on beach) It is already dead.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That... Now in Bombay, they have refused. Because they are under the impression that "They, these Europeans have come here under some sentiment, and what is the use?" They have taken some plea and rejected our... (break) ...is there. As we are making counterpropaganda against māyā, the māyā is also very strong. She will also make propaganda against you, very strong. So unless you become very sincere devotee, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), then it will not be possible to conquer over māyā. You'll be succumbed. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...taranti te, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. In India the, the brāhmaṇa class, they say, "Oh, I am born in brāhmaṇa family. Why shall I do this work?" You see. Therefore the whole society has gone to hell. In your country still, they accept any kind of work. It doesn't matter. And here, in India, if he happens to be a brāhmaṇa, he'll not take any kind of work. Means... Just like plowing. He'll not agree.

Prabhupāda: Ah! Mohitaṁ, bewildered by the three modes of nature, they cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Sar:

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama-māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the bhaktas who have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they can understand everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the bhaktas who have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they can understand everything.

Mr. Sar: That is the most important.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mām eva ye prapadyante.

Mr. Sar: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante... (BG 7.15).

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Now, here the question... Here the question is that mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. So it is very easy thing. Why not surrender to Kṛṣṇa and become free from māyā? But their... The answer is there: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ.

Dr. Patel: Four types of people.

Prabhupāda: Rascals and mūḍhās and sinful men, they do not do that.

Mr. Sar: And then again, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ...

Prabhupāda: But those who are pious, sukṛtina, they do.

Mr. Sar: Yes, sun is never absent.

Prabhupāda: Sun is always in the sunlight. It is for us to be in the darkness.

Mr. Sar: Kṛṣṇa is the Lord of māyā. He's the Lord of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Māyām etāṁ taranti te. By simply surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa, one becomes freed from māyā. So how Kṛṣṇa can be under the influence of māyā?

Mr. Sar: No, He cannot. He's the Lord of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But these Māyāvādīs says that "Kṛṣṇa is also, when He comes, He comes under the influence of māyā." This is called Māyāvāda. (break) ...these bhūta, material, material adhibhūtas. And adhiyajña. Adhiyajña is Paramātmā. And adhibhuta, material. And adhidaiva...

Dr. Patel: Is the other demigods.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: māyā means that thing... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...that is. That is right. One who says like that, "It is right," he's not in māyā. māyām etāṁ taranti te.

Dr. Patel: Because He is the māyā-maker.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is, He says that mām eva ye prapadyante. If you simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then they are not in māyā. You are not in māyā. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...what Kṛṣṇa says, then you are not in māyā.

Dr. Patel: That's right. Because He is actually... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...then he surpasses māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also have to die.

Dr. Patel: We die, don't mind, but we want others to die as Muslims. We want to die them as Hindus. (break) ...Supersonic sound.

Prabhupāda: Supersonic, what is that? Any circumstance, the ruling power is nature. He cannot avoid that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). (break) ...more their senses are turbulent. This is also... Therefore there is one tapasā brahmacāryena (SB 6.1.13) and the word anaśana, anaśana, "not eating." Eating should be reduced.

Dr. Patel: Tapasā brahmacāryena... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...yamena damena. There are so many. Out of that, there is one, anasana, not eating. Yes. (break)

Girirāja: "...not very turbulent, he cannot become violent." (break)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So this is our... because we are developing a different consciousness... Different... Consciousness is one, but it is being colored under different circumstances. And therefore we have to accept a similar type of body. So if our consciousness is cleansed, then we do not undergo the circumstantial changes by different species of life. That is required. In the human form of life we can do that, not to associate with the modes of material nature, but associate with God. That we can do. And if we associate with God, then we become liberated from the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. And our real business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā.

Guest: Give up this staying here?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: ...people tolerate such obvious mismanagement.

Prabhupāda: As long as they will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have to tolerate. They must suffer. That is nature's law. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). You cannot escape all these miserable conditions of... Mām eva ye prapadyante. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you escape. What is difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Simply always think of Me." We have got nice Kṛṣṇa. And attend the temple, and we see. And what is the difficulty to think of Him always? Or chanting, hearing His name. So there is no difficulty in remembering Kṛṣṇa always. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. To become devotee, worship the Lord in the temple, prepare food for Him, and take the prasādam—where is the difficulty?

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: All these European and American boys, they were habituated to all these things from the very birth. They did not know they are sinful. But since they have come to me, I have said, "These things are sinful." They have given up. And just compare with their character, with their behavior... (break)

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etām (taranti te)

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

So we must know what is the law of nature, what nature wants. Nature does not want at least human being should be sinful. Then you will be punished.

C. Hennis: I think that there, in your whole philosophy, there must be a very large number of points of coincidence with the more materialist activities that we engage in. But, well, they're just trying to give people a fair share of the material things of life, proper wages, decent houses, decent opportunities for feeling and for leisure.

Prabhupāda: Just like the children are playing. What is the value of this playing? They are making some howling noise. That's all. What they can do? But they are thinking they are creating so many things. "We are Ṭhākura (?)." (laughter) So you all scientists, you are doing that thing. That's all. You cannot do anything. That is not in your power. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very, very difficult, physical energy, which is being conducted... Just like you you have created this nuclear bomb, and if you take it and throw on the sun planet, what is the effect? Nuclear bomb can destroy something here. But where the... Your nuclear bomb will be destroyed if you throw it on the sun. Is it not? What is your calculation? We know the sun...

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Why should you fight? If you cannot... Suppose you cannot... Can you fight with death? Māyā, māyā has imposed upon you death. So fight with māyā, that there will be no death. That you cannot do. So you are always, what is called, defeated. That is your position. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So best thing is surrender to Kṛṣṇa for protection. That is wanted. We don't think, "minority." Suppose... Hare Kṛṣṇa people, how many there are in the Paris City? How many?

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: I think what he's asking, Prabhupāda, isn't the degradation... Because in the Vedas it outlines the ages, succeeding one another, and there're different characteristics, isn't it inevitable that it's going to occur, that the devolution occurs inevitably without anyone's being able to change it.

Prabhupāda: No. It is just like, winter season. The season is winter, but still, you can keep yourself warm. If you like, you can keep yourself in warm. So daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Nature's course is very strong, going on, according to the program, but mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he's above this degradation." (French)

Yogeśvara: You tell Prabhupāda how he's (M. Lallier) helping with the translation work.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Would you like this blanket also, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So as soon as the modes of nature are no longer working on the spirit soul, then he experiences that he's no longer changing his body?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: By taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The thing is that if I am so much susceptible to the contamination of māyā, the modes of material nature, then if I waste my time in material advancement of life, is it not risky?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Very risky.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: And why people do not take it?

Haṁsadūta: They are just foolish.

Prabhupāda: If by following these five principles one can be saved from all problems of life... Still, people will not take it. Just see, strong māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). (break) What was the later on talk?

Haṁsadūta: With her? She just left. But the other old lady, who was appreciating your movement, she was singing and dancing all night. She was incredible. Singing and dancing and playing karatālas.

Prabhupāda: At present Christian religion is made easy. Christian religion made easy. What is that? Now, first of all Christ has taken out contract that "You go on committing all sinful life. I am guaranteeing you will be saved." Is it not?

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means external: "They have taken the external energy, the material world, as very important. And the leaders also, the so-called leaders... They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature." That Bhagavad-gītā therefore recommends,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

This is illusion, that they are under the control of the material nature... Just like the so-called foolish scientists. They don't care for God. They think by so-called scientific advancement they will progress..., all the problems will be solved. That is not possible. One of my students, he is double M.A. in chemistry and Ph.D. I asked him to discuss these things.

Prabhupāda: They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature." That Bhagavad-gītā therefore recommends,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

This is illusion, that they are under the control of the material nature... Just like the so-called foolish scientists. They don't care for God. They think by so-called scientific advancement they will progress..., all the problems will be solved. That is not possible. One of my students, he is double M.A. in chemistry and Ph.D. I asked him to discuss these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhukāṇṭa: So we must become very sincere devotees or...

Prabhupāda: Unless we are very sincere, we cannot cope with māyā. That is not possible. If you remain a servant of māyā, you cannot conquer over māyā. You must be very sincere servant of Kṛṣṇa. Then you can conquer. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. It is clearly said. Otherwise you are subjected to the tricks of māyā.

Bahulāśva: Unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

This material nature can be avoided only by one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise, it is not possible. That example is given by Rāmānanda Rāya. He is touching naked woman, washing, dressing, touching, because he is not in the material world. That is the example given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) You ask them, "So you want to remain mūḍhā?"

Tripurāri: We say, "No, take it home, and some day you will read it." They think they can find out on their own.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. They cannot. Mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.

Tripurāri: Sometimes they will agree to everything we say, but they will not give a donation. They trust more the man on the T.V.

Prabhupāda: This is lake?

Devotee: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Tripurāri: So I was wondering. Sometimes our men on saṅkīrtana, they are shaking hands...

Prabhupāda: But you are saṅkīrtana. You cannot be infected. (break) ...party is infected, then preaching will stop. If doctor is infected, then treatment will stop. Doctor is never infected. They have good precautions. Similarly, when you are engaged in saṅkīrtana, māyā cannot touch. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. (break)

Tripurāri: ...disciples and you accept our karma also. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tripurāri: That is manifest sometimes in disease on your body?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: You put your own theory. Why should you try to put your theory through Bhagavad-gītā? That we protest. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that "There is no superior authority than Me." Therefore He is the God. Mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "I am the origin of everything." And if you have got different idea, that somebody else is the origin, that you can explain differently. But you cannot keep it as explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. Then it is distortion, because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Then they are controlled by the laws of material nature, and they want to be happy independently. This is rascaldom. If I am controlling you and you want to become happy independently, how it is possible? You must get out of the control first of all. Your eyes should be open. Then you can do something independently. But you are under my control fully, and I have wrapped up your eyes with very thick layer of cloth, and then how you can become independent, work. That they do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This māyā, this energy, is very, very strong. You cannot get out of it. Then what is the way? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so important. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then immediately he gets out of the control of māyā. That is the sign. Otherwise, if I remain a blind man, how can I lead others? Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, janma sārthaka kari kāra para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). You are very busy doing good to others, but first of all make your life perfect.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Guest (3): The question is...

Prabhupāda: It is, it... There is no question of "but." Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). If you do not do that, then what is the use of your reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityaja mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you do not follow these instructions of Kṛṣṇa, then where do you, why do you waste your time reading Bhagavad-gītā, and mislead others? That is our protest. All these misleaders... Perhaps, throughout the whole world, it is the first time—we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We are the only institution in the world that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people are liking it.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if someone has inquired about God, but can be so overpowered by māyā...

Prabhupāda: No, if you are strong, then māyā will not be able to overpower you. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who is fully surrendered to God, māyā cannot touch him.

Devotee (4): How does one become strong?

Prabhupāda: That we have given. Be strict in following the regulative principle, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Devotee (4): Just the four regulative principles?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is jumping of the monkeys. In my book, it was published in 1958. (Hindi conversation) I don't believe all these rascals. Otherwise, how could I write? Later on, in San Francisco some press reporter asked me, "What is your opinion?" And, "This is all foolish waste of time and money." It was published. (break) We are conditioned. We call ourself "conditioned soul." So whatever condition is made by nature or by God, you cannot overcome them. That is futile attempt. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass the condition of material nature. Foolishly, you may declare very great independent. But completely under the grip of material nature. Everything, there is a process. Just like you have come to U.S.A. You have come through a process, immigration. Can anyone come here without going through the process?

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That is the mistake of the present society, that everyone is being dominated by the material nature and the so-called scientist is trying to dominate over material nature. How it is possible? Therefore it is said,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ya prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Find out this verse. (aside:) Just wait. (gets up and leaves room) (pause) (break) So you have read that verse, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī?

Nitāi: No.

daivi hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Nitāi: The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy, their original superior power is covered. Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence. As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal.

Prabhupāda: That is free will, but under the point of revolver. So māyā is very strong. māyā is very strong. So when you are under the māyā's clutches, she dictates and you have to do. This is called māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14), very, very strong. So mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taran... If one is staunchly Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can avoid. Otherwise not possible.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa sees that you are, on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, you are trying to save these rascals, then He'll be very (indistinct) with you. They are rascals. The leaders are rascals and the followers are rascals and they're all going to hell. Nature's law is very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot avoid it. Nature is all-powerful. Kṛṣṇa has given: "You work in this way." She'll work. She'll work. She'll punish. As soon as there is little discrepancy—you have eaten, eaten more than is necessary-indigestion. "Indigestion, starve." This is nature's law. Nature will act. But you have to (indistinct) them with knowledge that "You don't do this. Otherwise you will be under the control of nature life after life. Simply miseries." Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others' distress. This is Vaiṣṇava.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhanañjaya: So all these cheaters are māyā's agents.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are agent of Kṛṣṇa. (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. But because you want to cheat Kṛṣṇa, therefore they are cheating you. They are not your servant. Mama māyā: "My servant." Just like the police. Police is punishing you not on their own account. Because you are disobedient, you must be punished. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14).

Brahmānanda: The moment we stop cheating Kṛṣṇa, then we can...

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: But we're going to change the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. (laughter) That is also replied, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). "You cannot do that, my dear sir. You rascal, you are thinking like that. That is not possible."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say they've already made so much progress.

Prabhupāda: You go on making progress but you will never come to the ultimate goal. You can go on foolishly. That's all right. Just like they made progress, United Nations. What progress they have made?

Harikeśa: They made a nice building.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa has left the book of instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is favorable condition. And the spiritual master is the captain, and you take advantage. Your, this human body is a good boat. So good boat, favorable condition, good captain—take advantage of crossing this ocean. Otherwise you are committing suicide. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult to cross over this ocean of nescience, but these are the favorable conditions. One should take advantage of these favorable conditions and cross over this ocean of nescience.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: They cannot change the situation and trying again and again, hope against hope. This is their foolishness. Nobody is able to change the situation. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). That is not possible, but they will not take it. "Yes, we are trying. Yes, we are trying." Dog's obstinacy. What you are trying? In the history there is no such instance that you have been able to change. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Shilling?

Harikeśa: No, they are playing golf.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How persistent life is this. His main body is cut into pieces; still, he's struggling to exist. He has got some attachment—"I shall live here, stand here for ten thousand years." This is māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can a man's intelligence be rectified? If intelligence is the...

Prabhupāda: This hari-kīrtana, chant. Somehow or other, induce them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything all right. By flattering, by soliciting, by giving him prasāda, by elevating him, that "You are the best man in the world"—in this way inducing him, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," then he will be rectified. This is Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Just tell them that he has created this civilization that suffer and become rascal. That's all. Unless you become rascal, how you will suffer? So keep them rascal and suffer. This is nature's arrangement, that "You living entity, you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. All right, come under my control. Be rascal, remain rascal and suffer." Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Why she is doing that? "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you will go on suffering like this." This is the nature's way. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). But the rascal... Because he is rascal, he does not know that "I am under the full control of prakṛti, material nature, and her business is to keep me rascal and suffer." And they are advanced in education.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Although he is very proud of his material knowledge, it has no value. Because he is dependent on the laws of material nature, what his knowledge will help him? Suppose a very big man of this material world, he commits some sin. Does it mean that because he has got big qualification he will be saved from the laws? No. He must suffer. So mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot avoid even these material laws, so how you can avoid the nature's law? Mama māyā duratyayā. Very, very difficult, but still, they are thinking, "Oh, we are independent. We can do anything." Therefore mūḍhas.

Dr. Patel: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām...

Prabhupāda: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Kṛṣṇa and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyāsa and become guru. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You have come to Africa.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Prabhupāda: Expansion of the influence of māyā. Then? What is the result? The result is anitya saṁsāre, moho janmeiya. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyār vaibhava, tomāra bhajane badha. māyā means forgetfulness of God. This is māyā. māyā means the more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are involved in māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So māyā's business is to cover you more and more as you forget Kṛṣṇa. This is māyā's business. So therefore, expansion of māyā's influence means forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Tomāra bhajane badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya saṁsāre, moha janmeiyā. We are already attached to this material world, which is temporary.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, even, you see, sir, this attraction to the other sex is so strong and great it is very difficult for human beings to get relief.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be explained. That is explained, Bhagavad-gītā,

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayi

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taran...

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

This is the way. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: Extremely difficult, that even man like Gautama Buddha had several times come back to see his child and son when he left his house, more than half a dozen times, come and go, come and go. Finally he closed his eyes and ran away. A man of that type. And for ordinary human beings it is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: Ha. Tyajanty ante kalevaram.

Caitya-guru: Taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya.

Prabhupāda: Ha. "So you are thinking like dog, alright you take the body of a dog." And finished. Your human life is finished. And again wait for millions of years to come to the human form of life. Nature's law you cannot check. Daivī hi eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The law is there. The same example, if you contaminate some disease, the law is you must suffer from that disease. So they are thinking "free." That is their gross ignorance.

Hari-śauri: It's very important then to accept some tapasya.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: It's very important to accept some tapasya to purify your desires.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. Ye mā prapadyante māyā.

Prabhupāda: And as soon as you go under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān paritiyaja mām ekam, then there is no jurisdiction of māyā. Just like as soon as the sun rises there is no more darkness, automatically. You do not require to dissipate the darkness. As soon as there is sun, everything is light. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya! Mam eva ye prapadyante māyām etā taranti te. This is the process. It is simple method. To become under the jurisdiction of māyā it requires great labor. But to become under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, it takes a minute. But these rascals will not do that. Kṛṣṇa...

Dr. Patel: Because Kṛṣṇa Himself has made your eyes, all these indriyas outgoing, so...

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is one of them. But by controlling their sex, people derive much (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That is a fact.

Dr. Patel: Because I think woman is the personification of māyā. You can say that way. The whole thing is revolving round that.

Prabhupāda: But if you become strong, Kṛṣṇa conscious, it may go away. māyām etam taranti te: there is no more māyā.

Dr. Patel: We must be conscious like Mīrābai or gopīs or big, I mean, like (indistinct). When his wife died he said (Hindi), "I will be able to worship God a better way," when he lost his wife. These are the...

Prabhupāda: No, that means he became Kṛṣṇa conscious after his wife was dead. (laughing) Not before!

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that there is no education. They do not know what is interest. They are making a small limitation, that "This is my country. My interest is to become a national. I will sacrifice my life for this, that, this..." Whole world is going on like this. Na te vidhuḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum.

Dr. Patel: And, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is brahmacārī. Where is that education?

Dr. Patel: This education are given to the Vaiṣṇavas in their homes. They are Vaiṣṇavas. But then so-called Vaiṣṇavas, many of them they are ruthless. Ruthless, absolutely ruthless...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct), kṣatriyas, there is no (indistinct) kṣatriya...

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: The principle should be that you should not leave remnants of food. As soon as it is used, it should not be used more. Otherwise it is not possible to give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). I am eating something not very superior, but if I get the chance of eating something superior, then I give up this inferior. So there is no question of making it vacant or void. To fill up the place with better thing.... So when you think of Kṛṣṇa, then you forget māyā. Otherwise you are entrapped with māyā. Why Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto? Mām eva ye prapadyante. This is wanted. As soon as you become anyābhilāṣī, then it becomes difficult. Where is that knife? Give me one amroot(?). Cut into pieces and get...

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like Kṛṣṇa's dealing with Pūtanā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hundreds and thousands of miles, this fog, simply by two minutes' light of the sun—finished. (break) ...working. If there was no sun, then so many ships are standing on the ocean. The cars, they are "bong, bong, bong, bong," so many disturbances. You see? You cannot do anything. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). What you can do? Immediately He can kill you all. Thousands of planets immediately finished. Bring your science to protect them. No, not possible. Māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. When Kṛṣṇa desires to vanquish, nobody can save you. Finished. Still, these rascals say, "There is no God." Simply rascals. At least expose these rascals. We have no power to kill them, but at least we can expose them. That is also great service.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: So actually there is no way to become detached.

Prabhupāda: The only way is that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Dayānanda: Except through Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mām eva ye prapadyante. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and everything will be clear, just like as soon as the sun rises, everything is clear, no covering. That is our propaganda, that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious; then you become fully aware of everything. Otherwise you remain rascal, fools, gādhā, asses. If you prefer to remain asses, you can do so, but we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. We must preach real, reality.

Dayānanda: Even the jñānīs and yogis become...

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa devotional service is so strong that it cannot be checked by any material impediments. The smārtas, they are thinking like that, "How these mlecchas and yavanas can become a brāhmaṇa?" But they do not know that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness one can jump over. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is very strong. Therefore there are gradual process. Varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, this, that, so many things, pious activities, rituals. But this is the process, step by step, to cross over māyā. But Kṛṣṇa said, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa sincerely, immediately he crosses over. As Kṛṣṇa says in another place, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I'll do immediately." So māyā means pāpa. Unless one is sinful, he cannot be in māyā. So if one surrenders, then he, means, immediately crosses over māyā. So these smārta brāhmaṇas, they consider this thing. They are thinking, "How a person born in other families, they can become brāhmaṇa?"

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they must suffer. As soon as you break ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These rascals, on account of being misled by misconception of life, ahaṅkāra, false ahaṅkāra, kartāham, I can do everything. Any little pinch of nature's law, if you break, you'll suffer. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot escape. But still they're thinking, "We're independent." That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, by false prestige, by false identification. He is (indistinct) and he's thinking so many nonsense. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Everything will be explained in Bhagavad-gītā. So try to explain. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, yāre dekha, tāre kaha, 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128).' Bas, finished, "You become a guru." The trouble(?) is there. You haven't got to manufacture your ideas. Just like I'm quoting from Kṛṣṇa's preaching.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Carol Jarvis: ...is to work with nature.

Prabhupāda: We can do that. We can do that, that...

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

You cannot combat with the nature's law, but Kṛṣṇa says that if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can do that. You can stop nature's law acting upon you. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Carol Jarvis: Why.... Why would you want to stop nature's law acting in its natural way?

Prabhupāda: Because I don't want to be old man, but I am being forced. Therefore I want to stop this force of the nature. That is my natural inclination.

Guru-kṛpā: "But we have weaknesses. Temptation is very strong."

Prabhupāda: That is another. You strongly pray to Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Then it will be possible. And if you have got less faith, then it will..., you'll have to suffer. You'll have to suffer.

Upendra: We sometimes see that those who have faith in their religious process, but because in their...

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: A human life is meant for preparing for the next life. That is sensible. But I am so much busy in manufacturing things for modernized life, R.C., T.C., P.C., and so on, so on. In future, at the time of death, I begin to bark and I think, "Oh..." And nature will say, "All right, come on." "No, no, I'm not going to..." No, why not? You have become modernized, barking like dog. So you bark. Who will check that? Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). māyā will take consideration, "What you have made yourself, a dog or god?" That she will take account. If you have made yourself a dog, "Just come on, become a dog." If you have made yourself as god, then "Come on, you'll be demigod." That is for everything. Otherwise why there are varieties? There is dog life and there is demigod life, Indra life. It is not one-sided.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They say that you can become above nature.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That will make them failure.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Oh, yes, they will fail.

Prabhupāda: That will make them failure. Tell them, then this will make them failure. "If you are so foolish that you want to go above nature, then you are fool number one." Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is not possible. That is not possible. Then you are following wrong path. If you are imagining like that, that "We have surpassed the laws of nature," then you are fool number one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that respect they are like the Americans and Russians. They think that we can overcome the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...his position is very bad...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...compared to the innocent person, ignorant person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).

Rāmeśvara: But then again he argues like this, he says, "The living entity cannot do anything without the sanction of God. So I am desiring certain sinful activities, but why is Kṛṣṇa sanctioning it?"

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not sanction.

Rāmeśvara: Then how is it going on?

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like God says that "You surrender unto Me." And who is going to surrender? He says clearly, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and who is doing that? So why he'll not suffer? He must suffer.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

He would not do that. He'll try to become himself God: "No, why shall I surrender to God? I am God." He is dog, he is kicked even by dog, and he's still thinking, "I am God." This is the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: But we are getting money. We have no money, but still we can sit down in such a nice palace. This is practical. So money is not problem. The problem is godlessness. So as soon as there is godlessness, there will be suffering, different types of suffering. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Problem, māyā is problem.

Hari-śauri:

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

"This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Prabhupāda: Everyone.

Jackie Vaughn: Everyone. Monday I'll go back to the State Capitol...

Prabhupāda: That is explained, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). We think "Now this problem is solved," but actually it is not solved; it has created another problem. Therefore this word is used, daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You, the problems are so great that you cannot solve it.

Jackie Vaughn: Each year it mounts.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is not different, by association of Kṛṣṇa you become purified. Then you understand, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). You become the greatest mahātmā: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is everything." Then you surrender. You have to surrender-today or tomorrow or many millions of births after. You have to do that. Otherwise, you'll be troubled by the laws of material nature.

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

So we have to come to that point, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is nature's way, pulling by the ear: "Come here, do this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). This will go on as long as you are not agreeing to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, there is no infringement by māyā. (break) (Bengali) You understand Bengali? So the process is going on by the laws of nature to give us different types of trouble. The main trouble is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).

Kulādri: Then they say then we needn't play Kṛṣṇa conscious music. We might as well play rock and roll if it is going back to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is māyā. This is meant for Kṛṣṇa's service. As soon as you do anything else, then it is māyā. Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). Māyā is also Kṛṣṇa's. But under māyā we suffer; under Kṛṣṇa we enjoy.

Kulādri: So if we engage everything here in Kṛṣṇa's service, then the atmosphere will change.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Fifth Avenue.

Rādhāvallabha: Brahmānanda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was Brahmānanda's assistant always. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Simply capture Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. Māyā will not be able to... When you have come here?

Ṛṣi Kumāra: We just got here his afternoon.

Prabhupāda: "We" means along with...?

Ṛṣi Kumāra: I came with Rādhāvallabha prabhu.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, preaching constantly required to keep them in balance. As soon as the balance is tilted over on the māyā side, then everything is finished.

Hari-śauri: They get a bit overwhelmed sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That is possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very strong. But if we also become equally strong in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no... That... Just like in the beginning, a seed sown, it requires very careful attention. Then it grows up. And when one grows a tree, then that is all right. But so long it is not a tree—it is a plant—one has to take... And the watering is śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. That is required. Mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. I think, nineteenth chapter of Madhya-līlā.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Indian lady: And it is sure to go through in this life if you try this?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is sure. He says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. It is sure. It is not speculation. It is fact. As soon as you surrender, you immediately become freed from all sinful reaction of life. And we suffer on account of sinful reaction of life. So intelligence is that "Here is the opportunity, mām eva ye pradadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te, to get out of the clutches of the influence of material energy. Why not take it now?" That is wanted. Vāsudeva sarvam iti sa mahātmāh su-durlabhaḥ.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Saying that we're governed by the laws of nature, since we are a biological creature like the rest... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: So you should not remain under the laws of material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult.

Bill Sauer: In one of the cover letters that went out to some of the people in the American Institute of the Aeronautics and Astronautics, I referred to mankind as a biological phenomenon to solve one of nature's big problems. And a man wrote back, "Anyone who calls man a biological phenomenon shouldn't try and talk to me." So I don't know what he thinks we are, but...

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Biological phenomenon...

Bill Sauer: It is nature, it is governed by the laws of nature, exactly.

Prabhupāda: So you can get out of it as it is advised, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult. But mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you surrender to God, then you can get out of this biological problem. Otherwise it is not possible.

Mr. Davis: May I just add one little note to my friend, and I'm sure my scientist friend will back me up, that the radiation from the sun is far more than just light, which is, after all, just a mere part of the electromagnetic radiation.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: There is power shortage, all right, let us invent some substitute of petroleum. Brain is being taxed. Again it is finished, again another. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). But they are so dull brain, they do not raise the question that we are making solution of one problem, another problem is ready. That brain they have not. So how long we shall go on solving the problems, another problem, another problem? Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). He does not know that nature will not allow me to live peacefully. So we bring problems after problems. That is material life. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī. Everything is there. You discuss only Bhagavad-gītā, you'll get so many subject matter to think and write. This is brain. We are solving one problem, another problem is there. Why this is happening? If there is any situation without any problem? That is brain.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: First of all generally they don't believe transmigration. So they believe or not believe, the process is going on. So this is going on in the modern world, "I don't believe it." You believe or not believe, you cannot check the nature's law. But their dull brain cannot understand it that nature's law is very, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), but thinking that they'll conquer over nature. That is their proposal, is not, Bali-mardana? They think that they'll conquer over the laws of nature.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Just like their so-called scientific way. They are trying to go to the moon planet or Mars planet. Why they are trying to go? Because they are controlled. They have got their flying machine. They can to go any planet, but they cannot because they are being controlled.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: We are already under the control of the laws of material nature, and that is our conditional life. Actually, we require freedom from conditional life, but that freedom can be when we surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

If you actually want to be not to be controlled by the laws of material nature, that you can do. That is possible. And that is possible simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. So we are presenting this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a manufactured thing. We are quoting from Bhagavad-gītā the same thing. We are not presenting something manufactured.

Prabhupāda: Within thirty-six years there were two big wars, slaughter. Especially Europe. Nature will create. Pestilence. Somewhere there is pestilence, somewhere there is war, somewhere there is scarcity of food. But you cannot indulge in sinful activities. Then you'll be killed. Then nature's law will act. You may defy, that's your business, but nature will act in her own way. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass. That is not possible. But they are foolish, they are trying to conquer over nature by their so-called scientific knowledge. They are such a rascal. You change the color of this fruit and flower, conquer over nature. So rascal, they talk rascal, "It will take millions of years." We have to wait million. "Yes, from chemical we shall bring life. Wait million of years." This is going on. And for such thing, big building, laboratory, research, scientific research. Big, big signboard. And the students out of disappointment, going to the roof and falling down, committing suicide. I saw it?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: They can manufacture so many. Fertile brain in the tract of deserted world. This world is desert, and they have got fertile brain. They call? The fertile land in the deserted land, in the desert, is called oasis. So similarly, these rascals, they have got fertile brain in the world of desert, where there is no happiness. But they have got fertile brain, how to manufacture happiness. And māyā kicks on their face and baffles everything. This is the illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They, the world is desert, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but they have got fertile brain, how to become happy. And as soon as they make some arrangement, kicks on his face and he falls down. That's all. What do you think? Is it right? Sometimes you have got fertile brain. (laughter) This fertile brain, he will not accept. He'll be kicked out. Everything will be finished. If you want to be happy, then you have to go back home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Otherwise, your fertile brain will... What do you think, Jyotirmāyī? You are intelligent.

Prabhupāda: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare pasate māyā tare japati 'dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven't got to trace out the history. Event if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that. So there is no use wasting time how it was begun. You are criminal.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work. So in this life you may be a prime minister, but if you have worked like menial dogs and hogs, then you are going to get body of a dog and hog. That is nature's gift. You cannot check it. You have no hand on the administration of the nature. That is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). If you have infected some disease, you must suffer from that. This is nature's law. You cannot say, "Although I have infected the smallpox disease, I'll not suffer." No, you have to suffer. Or you have to die of that disease. You cannot check it. So they do not know how nature is going. Declaring independence. That is foolishness. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). And people are kept in ignorance.

Mr. Sahani: Māyā is also very attached to everybody, it still can be jijñāsur and jñānī, (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: No, no. (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Your first business is to surrender. Then māyā will not touch you.

Mrs. Sahani: Kṛṣṇa says that not even a leaf moves without His desire, and this present life...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to take sanction. You have to take sanction because Kṛṣṇa is the supreme controller. If you request repeatedly, "Kṛṣṇa, I want to steal something," so Kṛṣṇa will say, "No, no, don't do it, it is not good." But...

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Sahani: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. If you voluntarily become entangled with māyā, that is your business. (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa is light and māyā is darkness. So when there is light, there is no question of darkness. Darkness automatically will go. When there will be sunrise in the morning, you haven't got to endeavor to drive away the darkness of night. It will automatically go. (Hindi) Knowledge is already there. Why should you remain misfortunate? Kṛṣṇa says sukṛtino 'rjuna. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Sukṛtino means fortunate. So as soon as you begin Kṛṣṇa bhajana, immediately you become fortunate. Sukṛtino 'rjuna. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. (Hindi) Immediately begin kṛṣṇa-bhajana.

bhārata bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari 'kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

If we don't do it, then we are neglecting our duty. (Hindi) What is this, peach?

Atreya Ṛṣi: It's a kind of peach. It's like peach.

Mr. Sharma: There are many other Indians living in town, so can we arrange one day that you come to town and meet all of them at our place or another place if it is possible?

Nava-yauvana: But unless one is getting Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he is forced to go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, māyā is there. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). You cannot do anything without knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there, māyā is there. They'll take care. Kṛṣṇa's agent māyā will take care of you. You have to be taken care, either by māyā or by Kṛṣṇa. If you agree to be taken care by Kṛṣṇa, then you are happy. And if you don't agree, you will be taken care by māyā. You go on suffering. In either case you are not independent. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). That verse is very important-yathecchasi tathā kuru. Find out that verse. It is the last part. Yesterday you found.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: We cannot transgress the laws of nature. If we willfully transgress, we can do that, but we will have to suffer. If you touch fire, it will burn. It will not excuse that "Here is a child, he did not know." No excuse. Either a child or elderly, you have touched fire, then you must be burned. This is nature's law. Very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). Why you have got different bodies? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. As we have associated with the modes of material nature, we have got different types of bodies. Otherwise, why there are so many varieties of forms? The forms are different, but within the form, the soul is one.

Evening Darsana -- August 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no difficulty. People will not do that. That is the difficulty. "Why shall I think of Kṛṣṇa? I shall think of this, I shall think of that." This is difficulty. Otherwise not difficulty. You have to think something, think of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finished. (Hindi with guest) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtinaḥ (Hindi) Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). (Hindi) Beating with shoes by māyā, that's all. (Hindi) "Come here, māyā, kick on me."(?) (Hindi) (someone enters) Oh, when you have come?

Woman: This morning.

Prabhupāda: I was thinking of you.

Woman: Oh, yes?

Prabhupāda: Did you go to Bangkok?

Woman: No, I'm going very soon.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (1): Nature's laws are inexorable.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We cannot surpass. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). This nature's law is so strict, you cannot disobey.

Indian man (1): We can't bend it. It is un... inevitable, inexorable.

Prabhupāda: Yes, inexorable. Yes, yes, inexorable.

Indian man (1): And nobody can interfere?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee (1): Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat.

Prabhupāda: Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.

Devotee (1): This is from the 7th chapter.

Prabhupāda: Seventh, yes. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).

Devotee (1): See if it's 7, fifteenth or fourteenth. (pause)

Prabhupāda: About the gosvāmīs it is said, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, sleeping, and eating, and sense enjoyment conquered. So no sleeping, no eating and no sense gratification, that is perfection. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau. Hm.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Punishment.

Dr. Kneupper: But he must have done something...

Prabhupāda: You want to enjoy. Can you understand this? Everyone is trying to enjoy. So enjoy independently means that you don't care for... That is the fact. They don't care for God. So because they don't care for God, therefore they are punished: "You take care of your body." And as soon as you care for God, then there is no material body. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. So God, therefore, teaches us how to get out of this body.

Dr. Kneupper: That's the whole idea of mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kneupper: Mokṣa?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: The problem is very complex...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it must be complex. They will create complexity.

Dr. Kneupper: And the solution is very simple.

Prabhupāda: Solution. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... And that we are preaching, that "You become God conscious. Everything will be solved." And who is caring for us? Rather, they are giving opposition, that "These rascals are kidnapping our sons, brainwashing, controlling the mind," creating courts case. Just see. This is going on.

Dr. Kneupper: Do you see as a... When you're describing that if the world were going to be God conscious, it would...

Prabhupāda: Everything will be solved.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jagadīśa: What was that verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Tān aham.

Jagadīśa: Tān.

Prabhupāda: For the demons. Demons and godless people must be (indistinct), you cannot make a solution. You cannot surpass the law of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). There is enough water in the ocean, but still you are suffering for scarcity of water. Why? What is the answer?

Jagadīśa: They are answering rains. (?)

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): That's true. He was full of anxieties.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he could not get any spiritual idea. Asad grahāt. Material existence means accepting something which will not exist, asat. Asato mā sad gamaya. The Vedic instruction is: "Do not remain in this material world, and make your progress..." Asato mā sad gamaya. But people are so accustomed to materialistic way of life that they are reluctant. That is māyā, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very, very difficult. Māyā tries to punish every conditioned soul, and as soon as there is some attempt to get out of the clutches of māyā, she becomes still strong: "Where you shall go my dear son? You remain with me." Yaḥ devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpiṇa sam...(?) In the Caṇḍī, yaḥ devī, he is situated, keeping the conditioned souls in dream. He is simply dreaming, "I'll be happy in this way; I'll be happy in that way." And that is mental concoction. He'll never be happy. Kṛṣṇa said moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ, āsurīṁ bhāvam āśri... (BG 9.12).

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I like this tale.

Prabhupāda: Then Brahmā began to kill his sewerni (?) and his pigs and others, and then he began to cry and took him by force. There is a (indistinct). Even Indra, when he comes under the influence of this tamo-guṇa, he became happy in the high life of sewer.

Dr. Patel: Māyā duratyayā. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: He's envious.

Prabhupāda: Gandhi has... He's envious. The same thing. Bhagavad-gītā, he is writing essays on Bhagavad-gītā but the main principle of Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. What is that?

Girirāja: Mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te pratijāne priyo 'si me.

Prabhupāda: So where is that?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Our point is that if you do not get knowledge from liberated person, that knowledge is useless. That is cheating. (break) It is very easy. Just like a child. If he takes your direction, he liberated, and if he acts according to his childish nature, then he's conditioned. If you take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you are liberated. If you manufacture your own idea, then you are conditioned. Two things. Child is not actually liberated. He is child. But because he takes blindly the direction of the father, he's liberated. That is mām eva ye prapadyante. Anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and strictly follows what Kṛṣṇa says, then he is liberated. Otherwise not. If he manufactures idea, then he's conditioned.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You mean sve sve karmaṇy abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. That is your duty you have. That is what ...

Prabhupāda: So that verse is very important. That mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. As soon as you become fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, you are liberated, not that liberated means one has to grow four hands and eight legs. No. Simply you have to change the consciousness, that "Henceforward I shall act only as directed by Kṛṣṇa." That's all. You are liberated. It is one minute....

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: By His representative, by His words, they are present. Where is the difficulty to get His direction? Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). One who has seen, one who has understood Kṛṣṇa, take direction from him. "He's my representative." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If you get right guru, then you are liberated. If you follow the direction, if you want to please him, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **, then you are liberated. Otherwise, what is the meaning of this? Mām eva ye prapadyante. There is no need of waiting for liberation. "As soon as one surrenders to Me, he is immediately above the platform of māyā." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Hare Kṛṣṇa. So what was the Vinoda Bhave's statement published in the paper?

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: God is presenting Himself, and still, they cannot understand, such a mūḍha, duṣkṛtino, narādhamāḥ.

Guest (1): We have to wash that ignorance, giving the message to the...

Prabhupāda: No... (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām.

Guest (1): māyām etāṁ taranti te. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. But he'll not do that.

Guest (1): Because he has succumbed to the passionate, passions.

Prabhupāda: But if he takes Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then everything is all right immediately.

Guest (1): That is the disease.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Prasāda. Mam eva ye prapadyante māyām...

Guest (1): māyām etāṁ taranti te.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Prabhupāda: That is the disease. Āsuraṁ bhāvam.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I shall surrender to my senses." Surrender he has to. He's not independent. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. Because he's rascal by ahaṅkāra, false ego, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa—"Huh! Why shall I accept Kṛṣṇa?" He will accept māyā. And the māyā, by pulling by the ear—"Come here. Sit down"—that I shall accept. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām... And that... But stop that force. That he does not do. "Better let māyā pull me by the ear, and whatever she likes, I shall do." But he'll not like to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is very confidential knowledge, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who tries for this business... That is Kṛṣṇa's desire, that "Try to make these rascals a devotee and convince him about the importance of Bhagavad-gītā." If you do this thing, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68), then? What is next line?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: This is all based on the information received by various parent groups. "These people usually fear physical harm that may come to them and to their children who are in Hare Kṛṣṇa, as well as forcibly permanent separation from their children in Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meaning, liberation. This is liberation, forcely separating from māyā. That they do not know. māyām etaṁ taranti te. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: "Hare Kṛṣṇa is known to hide out those whose families want them out."

Prabhupāda: Family?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, these are not the subject matter for serious thought? Do you think? You are under the grip of the laws of material nature. Do you admit or not?

Guest (4): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then why you should be under the grip of material nature? And if there is way, why should you not take? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etaṁ taranti te.

Guest (2): Our analysis...

Prabhupāda: Analysis... (Hindi) Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So why you are trying to get better position? That should be the endeavor, that we may get better position.

Guest (2): Sat-saṅga.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Gargamuni: They roast it in the sand. Dry roast it.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Gargamuni: (pause) The nature's law is that if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll be put into trouble. Yes. The law is there. That is daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass.

Gargamuni: They're always being harassed.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why one is taking birth as a brāhmaṇa and why one is taking birth as a dog? So kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If you become, associate with sattva-guṇa, then you are elevated more and more. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. You remain where you are if you associate rajo-guṇa. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And if you practice jaghanya, most abominable practices of tamo-guṇa, then go down. You cannot check it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Guṇaiḥ again. Just like if you have infected some disease, cholera, you must suffer from cholera. If you have infected disease of smallpox, then you must suffer from smallpox. You cannot check it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. You should be very cautious so that you may not be affected by this infectious disease.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "In this verse the description of mahātmā is clearly given. The first sign of the mahātmā is that he is already situated in the divine nature. He is not under the control of material nature. And how is this effected? That is explained in the Seventh Chapter. One who surrenders unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, at once becomes freed from the control of material nature. That is the qualification."

Prabhupāda: Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti.

Satsvarūpa: "One can become free from the control of material nature as soon as he surrenders his soul to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the preliminary formula. Being marginal potency, as soon as the living entity is freed from the control of material nature, he is put under the guidance of the spiritual nature. The guidance of the spiritual nature is called daivīṁ prakṛtim, divine nature. So when one is promoted in that way by surrendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one attains to the stage of a great soul, mahātmā.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is our mission. Here is opportunity for his getting out of the clutches of māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14), and they are being misled, the so-called science and nasty philosophy and economics and making them, training them as demons and rākṣasas. What is this civilization? So our movement is against this demonic civilization. It is really para-upakāra.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And it's quite appropriate. The theme is...

Prabhupāda: This is verse of Bhagavad-gītā, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You cannot violate the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You are strictly under the obligation, or laws of nature. Why you are talking nonsense? This should be... And under the strict laws of nature—you are eternal—simply you are suffering while transforming this body or transmigrating your soul over... And it is so risky that today you are human being; tomorrow you may be a dog, a tree. Then your life is spoiled. Today you have got so nice intelligence to deliver you from the clutches of the laws of nature, and tomorrow you may not be able. Then you are lost in the laws of nature. This is your position. So at least this institution must be there. People may take little advantage of it. If he begins, that is also great guarantee that he gets another chance, another chance.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Mahiṣāsura he's struggling with the weapons of Māyā, Durgā. He'll be failure, but still-ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham (BG 3.27)—by false egotism he's thinking, "I shall conquer over the material..." That is scientist, so-called scientist. Asuras are... They are planning that "We shall do without nature's control." That is mūḍha. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... (BG 7.14). They cannot conquer it. That is not possible. But you are struggling. You do not want the control of nature. And nature is so strong... Now it is raining. Within one hour they can vanquish the whole world. Doesn't take time.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What you can do when a man dies? Can you save? So similarly, everyone is being handled by the laws of nature. Nobody can do anything, such puffed up, "We can do this plan." All these political leaders, they are simply wasting time. They cannot do anything. Indira promised, daridra hata(?). But now he is, she is daridra. Poverty-stricken. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). These rascals, they challenging the material laws? Such a rascal? You are scientists, they are challenging. Are they not challenging?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Nature hai; you cannot change it. (Hindi) Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). You cannot stop it. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). (Hindi)

ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

(BG 14.18)

(Hindi) You cannot check the activities of material nature. That is not possible. (Hindi) They do not know what the, how nature's law is working. And we are completely under the nature's law.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

(Hindi) We have got Hindi also. (Hindi) You are all young men. Do you think what I am speaking is right or wrong?

Young man (3): I'm thinking he's not (indistinct) properly.

Prabhupāda: So the real problem is birth, death, old age and disease, and by following any rules, if you can stop this problem, then you are successful. It doesn't matter what is your brand of rules, but the problem is there. And we are suggesting that mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... If you want to avoid the rules of material nature, then you surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. We are suggesting. If you like, you can take it. But you are under the rules of material nature. That you cannot say, "No." (aside:) Now give them prasādam.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (1): Shameless.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "I don't care for you." (Hindi) Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). (Hindi) Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture nonsense things. (Hindi) Rascaldom. "Simply surrender to Me." (Hindi) ...manufacture... (Hindi) ...ism, this ism, that ism, that ism. (Hindi) The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: No, no, the disease is there; the remedy is there. If you take the remedy, so there is no question of suffering from the disease. But you refuse to take the remedy. Just like this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Canto. This Kali-yuga is the ocean of faults. Why should we lament for that? The remedy is there. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta... (SB 12.3.51). You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll become relieved immediately. So why don't you take the remedy? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. Why you are so much disturbed by māyā? Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So it is our choice.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Simply nonsense. So what is remedy? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All over the world... Of course, we do not want to criticize, but according to śāstra, people will suffer more and more. And they must suffer. Because they are becoming godless, they must suffer. That is nature's punishment.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te