Prabhupāda: You drink water, the taste, now just think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, if you think of Kṛṣṇa in your daily activities, then one day you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Actually, Kṛṣṇa is everything because whatever... This table is also Kṛṣṇa because it is a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ mano khaṁ buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). What is the ingredient of this table? Earth, water, air, fire. Kṛṣṇa says, "That is My manifestation of My energy." Just like if the sun-god says, "I am everything of this matter," it is a fact, because through the sunshine everything is coming out. As soon as there is no sunshine, no more trees, no more foliage. Why? It is due to sunshine all these trees are existing. So if I say everything is sunshine, what is the wrong there? Because it is the sun's energy which is maintaining this material world. Similarly, it is Kṛṣṇa's energy that is manifesting everything. So if I say this is Kṛṣṇa, this is a fact.
BG 07.04 bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh... cited (Con & Let)
Expressions researched:
"'nalo vayuh"
|"Kham manah"
|"ahankara itiyam me"
|"bhinna prakrtir"
|"bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham buddhih mano eva"
|"bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh"
|"bhumir"
|"kham mano"
|"vayuh"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You drink water, the taste, now just think, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." In this way, if you think of Kṛṣṇa in your daily activities, then one day you will be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Actually, Kṛṣṇa is everything because whatever... This table is also Kṛṣṇa because it is a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ mano khaṁ buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). What is the ingredient of this table? Earth, water, air, fire. Kṛṣṇa says, "That is My manifestation of My energy." Just like if the sun-god says, "I am everything of this matter," it is a fact, because through the sunshine everything is coming out. As soon as there is no sunshine, no more trees, no more foliage. Why? It is due to sunshine all these trees are existing. So if I say everything is sunshine, what is the wrong there? Because it is the sun's energy which is maintaining this material world.
Prabhupāda: You have raised that "I cannot understand." What is the difficulty to understand?
Reporter: I mean to be able to actually live it, day to day, like.
Prabhupāda: This is a question of... Even suppose Kṛṣṇa says, "This beautiful flower I am." So you are seeing this beautiful flower. So why do you not understand if Kṛṣṇa says like that? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ manaḥ eva ca bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ aṣṭadhā: (BG 7.4) "These eight (indistinct), eight kinds of material elements, they are My energy." So you are sitting on the ground, bhūmiḥ, so if you understand that it is one of the energy of Kṛṣṇa.... Just like the electric fan is running on, everyone knows there is electric energy. Similarly, if you see the ground, bhūmiḥ, as expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy, what is the difficulty? Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: Yeah. O.K. I see that.
Śyāmasundara: Just like, aren't the planets in this universe the sun's energy, a product of the sun's energy?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But who produced the sun? That is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Because it is heat, and Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Analaḥ, analaḥ, heating. "That is My energy." The sun is representation of the heating energy of Kṛṣṇa. It is not your energy. You cannot say that "The sun is made by me." But somebody must have made. And Kṛṣṇa says. So we believe therefore Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are Kṛṣṇa-ites.
Bob: Kṛṣṇites.
Prabhupāda: So I am not.... India will not go to claim that "It is my property." It is your property, because it is produced with your land. So if the whole land, whole sky, whole air, whole light, everything belongs to God, then where is your proprietorship? It is stated, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ mano eva (BG 7.4). Now, nobody can say "The sky is my property," but there must be some proprietor of the sky. What do you think? If everything has got a proprietor, everything is made of these five elements—sky, water, air, earth....
Śyāmasundara: Fire.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Fire.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). "There is another nature." We believe it. We have not gone to another nature. But Kṛṣṇa says: "There is another nature, spiritual nature." This is, this material nature, inferior nature, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), apareyam, this is inferior. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5). There is another superior nature. What is that? The living force. Who will argue? So we have got very easy method. And because we are receiving all this information from the most perfect, therefore our knowledge is perfect. That's all. And for all these rascals, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Unnecessarily they're laboring.
Prabhupāda: This is sāṅkhya philosophy. So you are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Everyone is sāṅkhya philosopher. We are also sāṅkhya philosopher. Because we are counting the material elements, as Kṛṣṇa says: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). We are analyzing: "This is land, this is water, this is air, this is sunshine, fire." Then I am counting with my mind, intelligence, ego. And further, I do not know. Kṛṣṇa says: "There is further." That is the living force. That they do not know. They are thinking: "Life is combination of these matters." But Kṛṣṇa says: "No." Apareyam. This is inferior. The superior energy is living entity. So we are also sāṅkhya philosopher. But we are taking direction from Kṛṣṇa, and they're making their own attempt. That is the difference. They're depending on their own intelligence. We don't depend on my own intelligence. We depend on Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. That is the difference. Then, if Kṛṣṇa is perfect, then my intelligence is perfect. I may be not perfect, but because I take Kṛṣṇa's intelligence, therefore I'm perfect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I am convinced.
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you write in scientific language. All these material elements have come from life. Not that from material elements, life has come. No. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, "Everything from Me." But Kṛṣṇa is life. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So... And bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). So many informations are there. Me, "Mine," "I am," like that. So He is life. Our God is not dead. Our God is life, living, just like us, one of us. But He is more powerful. That's it. Our God eats, sleeps, like us, just like we eat, sleep. The difference is that He eats, but He keeps the thing as it is.
Prabhupāda: The sunshine, coming of the sunshine within your room, is sufficient knowledge to know that here is sun. Sun is there. That is the Vedic statement, that you can understand there is fire when there is heat. If there is light and heat, then you can understand there is fire. That heat and light is sufficient, now, what is the heat and light? This is energy of the fire. So when Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "These material elements," bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), earth, water, fire, air, they are My energies, so if one has studied Kṛṣṇa, then as soon as He sees a great ocean, He sees Kṛṣṇa: "Oh, this is Kṛṣṇa's energy." As soon as sees a big anything, fire, water, anything, He sees Kṛṣṇa, nothing but Kṛṣṇa because He knows. Exactly in the same way, as soon as you feel heat, you know that there is fire. You don't require to see the fire. But if you feel, "Oh it is hot, oh, there must be fire." This is studying Kṛṣṇa. And this is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to feel the presence of Kṛṣṇa everywhere. So everything requires training, undergoing the process. Then it is possible. It is not impossible. So if you also go, the training, the process, you'll also understand. It is not difficult.
Prabhupāda: We Vaiṣṇavas, why should I say jagan mithyā? If God is true, what is created by Him, that is also true. Because Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Me, "My." So why should I take Kṛṣṇa's things as false? If Kṛṣṇa is true, His things are also true. So we don't take that this material world is false. We don't say. Our philosophy is that this material world may be temporary, but because it has connection with Kṛṣṇa, it can be used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. That is karma-yoga, bhakti-yoga. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Just like here is a microphone in the tape recorder. Now it is material. And if we say "No, no, we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, we cannot touch this material thing." We don't say that. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything has connection with Kṛṣṇa, so why shall I call it as material? Parityāga.
Prabhupāda: This is scientific. For an intelligent man, this is scientific. And if he's still dull-headed, then what can be done? Kṛṣṇa gives example. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As the soul is changing body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, like that. Similarly, after finishing this body, it may be invisible to you, but the subtle body is there. We have got two kinds of bodies. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). This material, eight kinds of materials—earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, ego. So when your body of earth, water, fire, air... Now in the... Now here is a medical man. He knows about this body made of earth, water, fire, air. But he does not know, perhaps, the body made of mind, intelligence and ego. Do you think so? That there is another body made of mind, intelligence and ego?
Prabhupāda: So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material.
Prabhupāda: Now, the Kṛṣṇa says that bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). So it has emanated from Kṛṣṇa. Yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. This is the statement of the Vedas and... So how would you explain that a person can produce such huge quantity of material things, at least to make them understand how it is produced from the person? These are to be scientifically explained, wherefrom so much vast mass of water came. That you have to explain scientifically. Otherwise how they will accept? Simply by saying, It has come from Kṛṣṇa," they will not accept.
Guest (1) Indian man: Yes. We have to convince them about the method of approach.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very much convinced that this earth was gaseous. So there was no life at the beginning.
Prabhupāda: That may be. That may be that. But wherefrom the gas came?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was just existing.
Prabhupāda: Bhinnā prakṛtiḥ. The answer is given. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). Vāyu, vāyu gas, it came from Kṛṣṇa. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāyu. Vāyu is gas, is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Air.
Prabhupāda: And finer than the vāyu is the ether, the sky. Finer than the sky is the mind. Finer than the mind is the intelligence, and finer than the intelligence is the soul. So they do not know this. They capture only middle thing, vāyu. Wherefrom the vāyu came? Wherefrom the gas came?
Yaśomatīnandana: As jīva, as jīva is...
Prabhupāda: He's always with Kṛṣṇa. Simply he has forgotten. Have you not been with Kṛṣṇa? We are standing on this sand. The sand is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy. We are standing by the water. This is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Don't you read that? So is it different from Kṛṣṇa?
Yaśomatīnandana: No, but it is...
Prabhupāda: My body is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. I am also Kṛṣṇa's energy. I am always with Kṛṣṇa. Simply I have forgotten it.
Prabhupāda: We can simply partially see. Parāsya śaktiḥ. Just like we are seeing this material nature, partial exhibition of His potencies. This is one of the potencies, but He has got many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). This material nature is only... This is also inferior potency. Apareyam. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This material nature is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind intelligence, ego. All these eight elements are separated inferior energy, and how much superior energies He has got. The superior energy is supposed to be the spiritual world, manifestation of the spiritual world. So if in the inferior material energy there are so many wonderful things, just imagine how much greater important wonderful things are there in the spiritual energy, which is called superior.
Prabhupāda: A Dr. Frog. He is thinking, "Atlantic Ocean must be like this well." That is our defect. He cannot conceive that beyond this well there can be a vast great mass of water. He cannot conceive. So comparing his intelligence, he is thinking that "How it is possible that a person can create such a big sky, such big, huge...?" Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). This earth, so big, huge quantity of earthly planet. So not only one. Millions. And then water, then fire, then... He cannot conceive. He is thinking that "If there is God, He must be like me. So I cannot do this. Therefore there is no God." The same, "Yes. I close my eyes. Then there is no enemies." That's all. He should be intelligent. Just like we are here ten or twenty men. You accept that "He is our guru. He is most intelligent man."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: First going is mind going.
Prabhupāda: So this is the mind. Similarly, mental, then intellectual,... You are going?
Dr. Patel: No, no. You are going ahead. We have to come to that...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Mind is also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ kham. khaṁ manaḥ (BG 7.4).
Dr. Patel: Khaṁ manaḥ eva ca.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are all material.
Guest (1): Ego is one part of this.
Prabhupāda: Ego is another covering.
Dr. Patel: Covering of the ego you surrender, then the soul surrenders automatically.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Covering... Ego is covering of the pure soul. So you are pure soul. That is ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "I am Brahman. I am not this covering." This covering, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca ahaṅkāra (BG 7.4). These are coverings.
Guest (1): They are coverings.
Prabhupāda: Material. Even up to ahaṅkāra.
Dr. Patel: Saṅghaṭas cetanaṁ dhṛtiḥ (?).
Prabhupāda: That is, that is also material. So... When one realizes that "I am not this. I am pure soul, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa," that is, that surrender is nice. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati... (BG 18.54).
Prabhupāda: Ah, tattvataḥ. They do not know. They say,"Kṛṣṇa is nirākāra." God is nirākāra. "I am as good as God." These theories, encumbrous theories... because they do not know. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3).
Dr. Patel: Kaścin māṁ vetti...
Mr. Sar: Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ...
Prabhupāda: So when one has come to this knowledge perfectly, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi," that is brahma-bhūta stage. So, so after brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, there are so many other things. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54).
Dr. Patel: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.
Prabhupāda: These bhūteṣu.
Mr. Sar: Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.
Prabhupāda: Then he comes to the bhakti-yoga. Not that only daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, not dhani-nārāyaṇa-sevā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: Devotee's equal, whether poor or rich.
Prabhupāda: That is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Why there should be distinction?
Mr. Sar:
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
- bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Astadhā, that's the lower prakṛti of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so now the study, first study, begins from material point of view: Wherefrom the sky came? How the sky came into existence? First of all sky. Then, from sky, there is sound. Then, from sound there is air. From air, there is... Along with these creations... the sky creation means the air creation also, the reception of the sound.
Yaśomatīnandana: Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi... (BG 7.8). (break)
Prabhupāda: Bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Because this material world means these elements, this earth, this water, then fire, then air, then sky—five elements. So what are these elements? These elements are Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ.
Italian Man (1): Material energy.
Prabhupāda: Childish, childish. Therefore they have been described as mūḍhā, mūḍhā. Mūḍhā means a child, they are foolish. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhāmāḥ (BG 7.15). (break) ...nābhijānāti prakṛtiṁ mohiniṁ śritaḥ. Prakṛtiṁ mohiniṁ śritaḥ. What is that verse?
Devotee: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ...
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto mama-bhūta maheśvaram. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). (break) ...says, bhūmir āpo analo vayuḥ (BG 7.4). This water is Kṛṣṇa's energy. So how can you refute it? Kṛṣṇa says, "It is My energy."
Indian Man (3): It is somebody's energy. That is definite. Because somebody is controlling it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, not controlling.
Indian Man (1): You have to believe or imagine some entity. It may be Kṛṣṇa or it...
Prabhupāda: No, no, how can you disbelieve? First of all, thing is how can you disbelieve? Believe or not believe, that is another question. How you can... This water has come from some source. So what is that source?
Prabhupāda: You have studied Bhagavad-gītā?
Dr. Sallaz: Some. Some of the members know it perfectly. I do not.
Prabhupāda: So you read that. Energy, two energies, how they are explained. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.
Dr. Sallaz: You see some of members are... (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, text numbers four and five.
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
- bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
"Translation: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego-altogether these eight comprise My separated material energies."
Prabhupāda: This is material energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalaḥ, explain that.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That the material energies—earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—these energies, they come from Kṛṣṇa. In other words, we are speaking of energy. There is an origin to the energy. We always have an experience. Just like there is sunshine here, but the sun, origin, is millions of miles away. So in the same way these energies also have origin. It's not that they are just existing without some source. And Kṛṣṇa is describing here in the Seventh Chapter—this is called Knowledge of the Absolute—how these energies are related to Him. Now, in the material world it's described that there are two energies. This is called bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā, inferior energy. This will be described in the next verse. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5). Now, this is describing the superior energy or the parām, the parāṁ prakṛti. And this is described, "Besides this inferior nature," which is this earth, air, water, fire, ether, "O Mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine which are all the living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe."
Satsvarūpa: You say it's a real body, but it appears to be stone.
Prabhupāda: Why stone? Stone is also God's body. You don't know that? Do you know it or not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes, in the Universal Form.
Prabhupāda: No. Universal Form... Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Bhūmi means the earth. "That is My body."
Yogeśvara: But there are no... They would say that there are no symptoms of life in the Deity.
Prabhupāda: No, there is life, but you have no eyes to see. There is life. He's the supreme life. Only premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38), one who is devotee, he can see. Otherwise, are we fools, rascals, that we are worshiping a dead body? Do you mean to say after reading so many books, we are worshiping stone? You have no eyes. You have to create that eyes to see that "Here is personally Kṛṣṇa present, arcāvatāra."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But no, theory in this form that God is everywhere, by His potency but everything is not God. This is our philosophy. God is everywhere. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spread everywhere but that does not mean that everything is sun.
Jesuit: That's true.
Prabhupāda: It is like that. God is all-pervading by His potency. This book, this is also energy of God. Find out this verse, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4).
Jesuit: Do you, in your creed, do you believe in metempsychosis, that is the soul going through one form of life and then if it lives badly, the person lives badly, it comes back in another form and so on? Do you believe in the metempsychosis?
Prabhupāda: Transmigration.
Jesuit: Transmigration of souls.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated here.
Prabhupāda: This is matter so long we forget God.
Jesuit: But no matter what you do to this, it will still remain matter.
Prabhupāda: It is energy of God. Matter is also...
Jesuit: But it is still matter.
Prabhupāda: ...inferior energy of God. Matter is not different from God. Find out, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Because everything is emanates from God. He is the father of everything.
Jesuit: God has created everything, yes. But not everything is spiritual.
Prabhupāda: That I already said, that God is..., everything is depending on God, but not everything is God.
Jesuit: No, true. So this, no matter what you do to it, it must remain matter.
Jesuit: It still remains wood.
Prabhupāda: ...the church is made of matter, wood and stone, but it is spirit, because here there is nothing other business than God. So the real thing is, matter means forgetfulness of God. Read that, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.
Madhudviṣa:
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
- bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
"Translation: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego-altogether these eight comprise My separated material energies."
Prabhupāda: That's it. So God being all spirit, His energy is also spirit. His energy cannot be different. But in this material energy we forget God. Therefore it is called material. If we know that this wood is also energy of God, that is spiritual understanding. And if we think that wood has come independently from any other source, that is material. In the Vedānta-sūtra this is discussed in the beginning athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Absolute Truth.
Jesuit: Everything is distinct from God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jesuit: We are distinct persons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā.
Jesuit: We share our being from God.
Prabhupāda: Bhinnā prakṛtiḥ, that is stated, "separated energy." Material things means separated energy. Just like this tape recorder. When we are not here, they will play the record and I am speaking. That is separated energy. And I am directly speaking, that is nonseparated energy. So separated energy and nonseparated energy, they are coming from the same source. The source is the same. Therefore, ultimate issue, the source being all spirit, everything is spirit. But the place where we do not directly perceive God, that is material. And the place where we directly perceive God, that is spiritual. So either separated or connected, God is the only one source of all energies. That is explained there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4).
Madhudviṣa: I couldn't find the other verses. The next verse is apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Just like this is earth. Now you prepare hundreds or thousands of earthen pots and dolls. When it is destroyed, again it is earth. So when it is manifested, it is earth. When it is not manifested, it is earth. So from the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa everything becomes manifested, and therefore originally it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir..., bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ: (BG 7.4) "It is My prakṛti, energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Because we forget Kṛṣṇa, therefore it appears material. (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...Mahāprabhu, as soon as He entered the Jagannātha temple He immediately fainted. Did He see the wooden Jagannātha? It is a question of seeing and prepare the eyes to see.
Prabhupāda: And in our list the plants are there. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means plants. There are jalaja, aquatics, and sthāvara means plant. All living entities, different forms... Bhagavad-gītā says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). As many forms are there of the living entities. But what are these forms? Forms means the spirit soul is one, and he is covered by these material elements. That is form. So either your form or my form, but the ingredients are the same, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). (break) The soul is the same, and the ingredients of the body are the same. That is explained in Iśo..., ekatvam anupaśyate. Just like from gold, take from the mine—you make earring or this finger ring, the ingredients are the same. The forms may be different. (break) Apollo airship, thousands of technologists and scientists were engaged to make this Apollo, and it burst out. So they have no foreseeing power that it will burst out. At that time they began to pray to God.
Prabhupāda: .... yoga. Viyoga, viyoga means disconnected. Yoga and viyoga, the opposite is viyoga. So viyoga is material.
Dr. Patel: Separation.
Prabhupāda: Bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Those who are connected with this material energy, they are apparently viyoga. So we have to attain for yoga. That means turn back again back to Godhead. That is yoga.
Dr. Patel: He quoted that thing from Kathopaniṣad.
Prabhupāda: Hm, what is that?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guru-kṛpā: Does that mean that the atom is living entity?
Prabhupāda: Eh? No. Living entity is also atom. One class of atom is matter, and one class of atom is the living entity. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These are... This material, matter, everything is combination of atom, atomic particles. Either you take earth or take water or air or fire, everything is combination of atom. That's a fact. But we know that these atoms are coming out as the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Bhinnā. Bhinnā means the quality different; not of the same quality. Apareyam: "This is inferior quality, but there is another, superior quality, jīva bhuta, and that is living entity."
Dr. Patel: We are scientist of aparā-vidyā.
Prabhupāda: Even aparā-vidyā. Even aparā-vidyā.
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
- bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
Kṛṣṇa says, so you have to know it like that. That is Kṛṣṇa's energy...
Dr. Patel: And how it is that prakṛti is, I mean, interaction, interaction of...
Prabhupāda: He says, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That is stated, and also said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). So therefore that is final.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ, mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo. The Māyāvādī says the whole material world is false. We do not say that.
Indian (2): We say both are right, parā and aparā.
Prabhupāda: We do not say. We say this material world also the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). He claims, "It is Mine," so how you can reject it? We cannot say anything Kṛṣṇa's is false. There is some purpose. I give this example, this finger: here is sensation, and here is no sensation. But both of them belongs to my body. Matter means where there is no Kṛṣṇa sensation. That is matter. And as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa sensation, it is spirit. Our Gosvāmīs' formula is that. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything has got relation with Kṛṣṇa. So.... Eh?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Indian lady: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (break) Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni. Mind and the senses, they're prakṛti-sthāni. They're not spiritual.
Dr. Patel: No, but, sir, if that is material...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mind is subtle matter. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir.... Bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). They are separated five material energies. Apareyam. They are inferior. Those who are in the mental platform, they are also inferior. The so-called philosopher, scientist and others, they are on the mental platform. Therefore they're inferior. Apareyam. These eight elements, those who are dealing with these eight elements, apara, inferior. And they are advertising that "We are superior." "The spiritual consciousness is brainwashed. We are superior." This is the fault. Of the inferior position, they are claiming superior position. Apareyam itas tu...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That makes our statement very valid.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ātmā... Super-ātmā is the source of ātmā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can explain everything, all..., but cannot explain by science.
Prabhupāda: That is the Bhagavad-gītā, Seventh Chapter, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā: (BG 7.4) "They are also My energy, and beyond this, there is superior energy." Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Both of them, energies, the material elements and the spiritual element, both of them are different energy of the supreme ātmā. So one is superior; another is inferior. Because we are superior, we are controlling the inferior energy, and by such control, from inferior energy matter, we have created this motor car. Therefore I am superior.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the West, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Western philosophy...
Prabhupāda: That is good. They're animals. Gentle behavior with gentleman, not with the animal. "You are so big, big animal, you are simply to be kicked and whipped. Then you'll come to your senses." Religion. Religion is farce. First of all explain why you cannot do this machine. You are very proud of machine-making, artificial. "Why artificial intelligence? Why not real intelligence?" Intelligence also material. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). The buddhi. It is material, subtle form of material energy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It is coming," they'll say. "In the future."
Prabhupāda: Again "coming." "In future." You are misled by these rascal words. Even if you do in future, what credit is there? It is already there. Why I shall wait for the future? It is already there. If some... We are sannyāsīs, begging, so if you go to somebody—he says, "Yes, I'll pay you one hundred rupees in future. I am trying to get the money"—shall you wait for that?
Dr. Sharma: They just want a valid proof.
Prabhupāda: Direct proof. The other day somebody asked me... Perhaps you were present? No. Logically. The logical proof, common sense, anyone who has got common sense, the logical proof is there. Just like everything is growing from the earth. The earth is giving birth. Earth, water, air, fire. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Take, for example, water. You dig a pond, and after a few months there will be fishes. So wherefrom the fishes came? If you don't touch even, the fishes will come, and they will grow. So wherefrom the fish came? What is the answer?
Mādhava: The scientists' answer? Well, immediately they would not say evolution, because it takes many billions of years to say evolution.
Prabhupāda: So no sane man can deny existence of God. That is not possible. As soon as you deny the existence of God, means you are insane. You require treatment. There is no doubt. This is common sense. So many lives are coming from the earth. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Either earth, water, air, there is life. They are coming. And the children are there, mother is there. Should we not inquire who is the father? If you say without father they have come, that is foolishness, madness. Immediately, he's mad. So you cannot deny the existence. If you deny, then you are mad. That is the sign of insanity. They require treatment. That is explained in one Bengali poetry.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Jagadīśa: Here it is clearly mentioned that living entities belong to the superior nature (or energy) of the Supreme Lord. The inferior energy is matter manifested in different elements, namely earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego. Both forms of material nature, namely gross (earth, etc.) and subtle (mind, etc.), are products of the inferior energy. The living entities, who are exploiting these inferior energies for different purposes, are the superior energy of the Supreme Lord, and it is due to this energy that the entire material world functions. The cosmic manifestation has no power to act unless it is moved by the superior energy, the living entity. Energies are always controlled by the energetic, and therefore living entities are always controlled by the Lord—they have no independant existence. They are never equally powerful, as unintelligent men think.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Some of the temple presidents are contesting the purity of the substance and are hesitant to order Deities on this account. On the other..."
Prabhupāda: No. You can do whichever is very sound and strong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is very sound and strong.
Prabhupāda: Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Original ingredient is bhūmi, earth.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's no reason... It's pure. It's not a question that it's not pure.
Prabhupāda: No. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another thing he says... The last point is that he saw... You know in New York they made those busts to be put in libraries, of Your Divine Grace? Some sculptures. Remember I showed you some photographs of...
Dr. Kapoor: But this philosophical discussion strains you, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Brahmānanda: He's saying you are strained by this philosophical discussion you're having.
Prabhupāda: No. It is nonsense that matter gives life. That we want to prove. Matter has no... Matter, I have studied it. Life is superior energy. Apareyam. This matter is useless. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ manaḥ (BG 7.4). They are inferior. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtim. Another, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). This is actually governing the whole universe. They have defied this apareyaṁ me prakṛ..., parām. They have not accepted. The scientists are speculators, most of them. Philosopher means materially thinking.
Brahmānanda: Materially...
Prabhupāda: Thinking.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are also doing it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So take care of the bones as long as possible. Real life is here. Always remember that. And material world means there are simply all protecting bones and flesh together. They have no idea what they are.(?) Bones and flesh... Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Apareyam. It is useless. Not useless-inferior. Real? That jīva-bhūta, which is sustaining. Thank you very much. Print books, and as I have given in my will, half, again print, and half spent for propaganda as you like. In this way go on. Jayapatākā, you are doing that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā, are you doing that? Half spending and half for printing?
Jayapatākā: In Bengal, because the people are so poor, so there we are giving the book and just taking five or ten percent profit margin...
Correspondence
1976 Correspondence
The jiva is jivatma and Krishna is paramatma. Where is the contradiction? Why do you manufacture "iva"? That is the defect of Mayavadi philosophy. They concoct ideas. Yes, Krishna can enter into anything. The body is also His energy. "Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh" (BG 7.4). And in Srimad-Bhagavatam in the prayers of Queen Kunti, Krishna is described "antar-bahih", within and without. In the Brahma Samhita it is stated by Lord Brahma about Krishna: "andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stam", He is present in His fullness in every one of the atoms.
Thinking is a subtle form of matter. Just like it says in Bhagavad-gita: "bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh . . . (BG 7.4)." Like the ether is subtle, the mind is more subtle—subtle form of matter. As for your third question is concerned everything is in the spiritual world. Krishna is the sum total of spirit and everything is coming from Him. Aham sarvasya prabhavo . . . (BG 10.8). Matter, spirit, everything comes from Him. He is the supreme life, the origin of spirit and life. Therefore matter emanates from life. Nityo nityanam . . . He is the Supreme Consciousness of all other consciousness.
| Page Title: | BG 07.04 bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh... cited (Con & Let) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas, JayaNitaiGaura |
| Created: | 26 of Feb, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=44, Let=2 |
| No. of Quotes: | 46 |