Prabhupāda: Nature is so cruel. In America, President Kennedy, he was thought to be the most fortunate man, happy man, young man, was elected President, nice wife, children, honor all over the world—(snaps finger)—within a second, finished. Temporary. Now what is his condition? Where he is? If life is eternal, if living entity is eternal, where he has gone? What he is doing? Is he happy or he is distressed? Or he's born in America or China? Nobody can say. But it is a fact that as living entity, he's eternal, he's existing. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā philosophy. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body the living entity is not destroyed. He is there. That we can understand.
BG 02.20 na jayate mriyate va kadacin... cited (Con & Let)
Expressions researched:
"For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time"
|"He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being"
|"He is not slain when the body is slain"
|"He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval"
|"ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano"
|"na hanyate hanyamane sarire"
|"na jayate mriyate va kadacin"
|"nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah"
Notes from the compiler:
VedaBase query: "2.20" or "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time" or "He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being" or "He is not slain when the body is slain" or "He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval" or "ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano" or "na hanyate hanyamane sarire" or "na jayate mriyate va kadacin" or "nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Discussion with Guests -- December 23, 1969, Boston:
Guest (1): But I don't think I'm thinking of myself as matter but I'm also not thinking of myself as...
Prabhupāda: No. You are not matter. You are spirit. Your body is matter. You are also one of the energies. You are spiritual energy and your body is material energy. And because you are spiritual energy, therefore your intimate relationship with the spirit soul or the Supreme Soul... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. The body will change, but you, as spirit soul, you will not change. You are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Body being changed, that is not changed. That is eternal. So we have to pick up our eternal relationship with God. That is missing.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:
Prabhupāda: So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:
Prabhupāda: You are young man, there is another young man also. Still, his body and your body is not exactly the same. His bodily feature, your bodily feature, his intelligence, your intelligence, they are all different. But a child grows to become young man, that's a fact. You are a child, another child was there. So they have got now different body. Just like you have got a different body from your childhood life. Is it not? But you know that you had a childhood body, although the body is not there. This is transmigration from one body to another. Just like a dream at night. You change this body. You accept another body. And although you're lying down on your bed, you've gone to some other place. Subtle body. Take for... This is a fact that we change our bodies so many ways, but I, the soul, I remain. So therefore, when this body will not exist I'll exist in another body. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We can experience this, and it is confirmed in the śāstra. After destruction of this body we are not disturbed. I, as living entity, I remain, I accept another body.
Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Death means forgetting. Just like in dream. At night, when we get another body and dream and hover, we go somewhere and talk with somebody, we forget about this body. And again, when I come to this body, I awaken, I forget the dreaming body. So I..., every day I am forgetting. At night I am forgetting this body, and daytime I am forgetting my night body. So forgetfulness is not the basic principle of knowledge. The things as they are we have to study. That body we change, but we are, as living entities, we are existing. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is confirmed by authorities. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body, the soul is not destroyed. The soul continues. He accepts another body. Now, what sort of body we have to accept—that is responsibility.
Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Now, this spirit is eternal. That is the first understanding. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This spirit is occupying a material body at the present moment. And the next, when this... Just like I am in this apartment. If I find some inconvenience, I go to another apartment. Or the lease is expired, I have to leave it. Some way or other, I change. Similarly, the... You can change your coat. So these are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Ex..., very nicely exemplified. So we are changing this apartment or dress and accepting another. This is going on. This is the material world. But I, the spirit soul, eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Second Chapter. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you can introduce, study some Bhagavad-gītā among the students, oh, it will, it will be a great service.
Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. And religion without philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. Two things must be combined.
David Lawrence: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā. Yes.
Śrutakīrti: "For the soul there is never birth or death"?
Prabhupāda: Hm? First of all find out the verse.
Śrutakīrti: Na jāyate...
Prabhupāda: Read it. Read it.
Śrutakīrti: Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin.
Prabhupāda: Let him.
Pradyumna:
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now read the meaning, translation.
Pradyumna: "For the soul there is never birth nor death..."
Prabhupāda: This, this is the nature of the soul.
Pradyumna: "Nor having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Prabhupāda: This thing first of all must be understood, immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul. Then other things will be easier. And because this is eternal, therefore there is another spiritual world which is also the same nature, eternal.
Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:
Śyāmasundara: Ignorance.
Prabhupāda: And ignorance. If we give service in ignorance, without knowing what is what, that kind of service may lead us to become punished. So we must know what kind of service we shall give. So real suffering of the society, human society, or any society you take, real suffering is, because the living entity has forgotten God, so he is being punished in different way by the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So many ways. But everyone is being punished. At least, the three kinds... Why three kinds? That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that this is also punishment, repetition of birth and death. This is also punishment. Because we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are spirit soul, we are eternal. So our, this constant change of body, birth and death, that is also punishment. Because nobody wants to die. Because he is eternal.
Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:
Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.
Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we admit. But we are not material. We are spiritual. That is...
Banker: Correct. You are not talking about the physical.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Physical is my outward dress. Just like your coat, if it becomes old enough, there is no more possibility to use it. You have to throw it away. You have to take another coat. Similarly, physically, I am spirit soul. When my physical body is old enough, useless, then I will have to give it up. I will have to accept another new body. But the question is that I am eternal; why I am forced to accept a body which will be useless after some time? That is the problem. I am eternal, as spirit soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die after the annihilation of this body. But why I am forced to accept another body, which will be annihilated? This technology is unknown all over the world. And still they are proud of becoming very advanced in science.
Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:
Hṛdayānanda: So if someone is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then nothing can be hidden from him.
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Hṛdayānanda: If someone is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because he learned from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam, na jāyate na mriyate vā..., na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So we are... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you are taking what Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore... (break) And then you judge in your own way, you'll find, "Yes, it's all right." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. At the present moment, because your, these blunt eyes cannot see the soul, you have to learn it by appreciation. Avagama. It is called avagama.(?) Appreciation.
Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: What you have studied in the Bhagavad-gītā?
Umāpati: Well I have never seen that it's possible.
Prabhupāda: No, what is your understanding from Bhagavad-gītā?
Umāpati: That we are eternal, that we have always been and always will be.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then how you can think of it? Why do you question this?
Umāpati: Well, because God's inconceivable. I just...
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). He is accepting the different types of bodies, but he is eternal. One body finished. That does not mean he is finished. He is transferred to another body according to his desire. He is never finished. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prajāpati: This is the only means, then, to get off that manorathena.
Prabhupāda: Manorathena, yes. Manorathena means if you remain on that platform, then you have to reject again. Just they are doing, the so-called scientists, philosophers. They are putting forward some theory, and after some time they reject it. So if you remain on the mental platform, then this business of accepting and rejecting will go on. You'll never come to a conclusion. Therefore one has to rise to the spiritual platform. That is nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That is eternal, everlasting.
Prajāpati: Not a theory.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes.
Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Nityo nityānām. Plural number.
Dr. Patel: Plural, yes.
Guest (1): No, no, that's right.
Prabhupāda: Plural number.
Guest (1): Permanent. Permanent, impermanent.
Prabhupāda: Both of them permanent. No, no, no. Permanent... The jīvas and the Supreme Lord, both of them are permanent, nityā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Just like nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. Eternal, always existing. And this material word has been described: asasvataḥ. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvataḥ.
Dr. Patel: Aśāśvatam.
Prabhupāda: Aśāś... It is not permanent. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It appears and disappears. So because nityo nityānām, there is transaction between the nitya, the Supreme Nitya, Kṛṣṇa, and the...
Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: This human life is especially meant for solving all the problems of live. There are so many problems of life, but the four problems, as indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam... (BG 13.9). People have no knowledge how to stop birth, death, old age and disease. Because every living entity is eternal. That we learn from Bhagavad-gītā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The living entity does not die even after the annihilation of this gross body. This is the first knowledge to understand. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to transmigrate from this body to another body. As I have transmigrated already from my childhood body to boyhood body, boyhood body to youth-hood body, now I am in a body very old, so similarly, as I am existing in spite of changing so many types of body, similarly, after changing this body, I will have to accept another body. This is the fact.
Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: No, even distinction, life and matter, here is sand. How these animals are living within the sand? And not only that. Now it is... Because it is wet, they are living. When it is very scorchy hot, then also living.
Dr. Patel: That is māyā. This is all māyā.
Prabhupāda: Living entity can exist in any condition. In the sun globe there is life. Go on.
Dr. Patel: Life is caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, caitanya. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Dr. Patel: Without caitanya nothing can exist.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Patel: I think even in an atom there is caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Aṇḍāntara-stha paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). There is. Go on.
Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:
O'Grady: But is there anything wrong with accepting the fact that you are mortal, you die, you rot and you become nothing?
Prabhupāda: No. That is the polluted conception. Actually you are immortal; you do not die. That is your position. Read this verse.
Nitāi:
- na jāyate mriyate va kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Prabhupāda: That is it. That is the position of the soul. So when there is mortality, that is not perfect stage. And when he attains the stage of again immortality... Because actually he is immortal.
Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:
Prabhupāda: You can describe it by the negative way, that soul is not body. (French)
Yogeśvara: (translating) Then we are still left with the problem: what is the relationship between the two?
Prabhupāda: First of all let us understand what is the soul. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Adāhyo 'yam aśoṣyo 'yam akledyo 'yam. Read those paragraphs.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Translation: For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (French)
Prabhupāda: Next verse.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:
- vedāvināśinaṁ nityaṁ
- ya enam ajam avyayam
- kathaṁ sa puruṣaḥ pārtha
- kaṁ ghātayati hanti kam
"O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal and immutable, kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (French)
Church Representative: I have nothing to say against. But I cannot say that it is a definition. Do you say in English, definition?
Prabhupāda: Yes, definition.
Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:
Church Representative: I cannot say that it is a definition. It is a sort of creed, a profession of faith.
Prabhupāda: No, it is characteristic. Definition means you mention the characteristic. That is definition. Definition, you mention the characteristic. So that can be mentioned directly, or if it is not perceivable, then you can define in opposite way. Just like we have got experience: everything in the material world, it is beginning. There is a beginning. Anything of this—your body, my body, everything—it has got a beginning, and it has got an end. So it is stated, na jāyate na mriyate vā: "It has no beginning, no end." And nityaḥ, eternal, śāśvataḥ, very old, purāṇaḥ. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "It is not destroyed, annihilated, after the destruction of the body." So if we accept this definition, then we can understand the soul is eternal. Our characteristic, if we accept these characteristics, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), after the destruction of body the soul is never destroyed, then you can understand the soul is eternal. And it is clearly stated, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "After the destruction of the body, it is not destroyed." So, it means it takes another body. (French)
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:
French Woman: You cannot... We accept the totality of the word, as you accept your word.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. "Died" means that is similar death. Janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9). Just like Christ take birth from the womb of Mary. It appears like that, but actually that is not. (French)
French Woman: No, it is very important that the death of Christ is a real death. For us, it is the center of our faith.
Yogeśvara: They say that the central point of their philosophy is that Lord Jesus actually died. (French)
Prabhupāda: No, according to Vedic conception, even ordinary living being, he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You understand Sanskrit?
French Woman: No, I don't understand it by hearing it. You have to read it.
Prabhupāda: Na hanyate, does not die, hanyamāne śarīre, apparently, the body being dead, the soul is never dead. (French)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is perfect knowledge, not like the scientists. They changes: "Yes, it was this. Now it is now changed." This is not perfect knowledge. They simply change. Therefore we say, mūḍhās. Perfect knowledge is that what you say, that is correct forever. That is perfect. Just like man dies. If somebody says, "Man dies," it is perfect knowledge. It is correct forever.
Guest (5): Suppose he is reincarnated?
Prabhupāda: No, no, "dies" means the body dies. The soul does not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body annihilates... Body becomes old. Just like this cloth. I am using it, but when it will be old, no more useful, then I throw it away. I get another dress. This body is like that. Soul is eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. It does not die, it does not take birth, but because he is in material condition, therefore he has to change the material body because no material thing is permanent. Therefore the aim of life should be how to avoid this material body. That is real business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā.
Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:
Professor: The thing is not to make dependent on the conscious of any individual the existence of thing.
Prabhupāda: Existence of thing... I say that at night, when I am dreaming, I do not see existence of these things. And at this time, in daytime, when I am seeing these things, I do not see the existence of the dream. So the conclusion should be both these things I see in daytime and I see at night, they have no existence. They are phenomenal. But I am the seer; I am eternal. I am existing. This is the proof. Because at night I am seeing and daytime I am seeing, so therefore I am eternal. But the phenomenal manifestation, they are temporary. We don't say it is false. Temporary. The Māyāvādī philo... Śaṅkara said it is false. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Mithyā means false. We don't say false. We don't say that this book is false. It has got reality, but temporary. This book has come into form at a certain date, and it will exist for certain days, and when it will be worn out or old, there will be no existence. Therefore the formation of this book is temporary. But I am the reader of the book; I am eternal. So two things are there, temporary and eternal. The temporary existence, somebody says, "False," but we say, "It is not false; it is temporary." But there is an eternal existence. Just like I am eternal. That is... We have to learn from śabda, vibration. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You understand Sanskrit. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That eternal thing is existing, it will continue to exist. Even after the destruction of this temporary body, it will continue to exist.
Professor: But coming again to the question that Professor (indistinct) put to you, but it is possible to understand all those things (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: You have to understand... I have already said that we have got our imperfect senses. We cannot understand. But we have to understand from a person who has got perfect knowledge.
Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the law. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "The soul is not annihilated after the destruction of the body." You find out that verse, na jāyate na mriyate va kadacit. Read it.
Hṛdayānanda:
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
(Spanish)
Prabhupāda: So the soul transmigrates to another body. That is the evolutionary process for anthropology, basic principle of anthropology. So in Darwin's theory there is no admission of the soul. Therefore it is imperfect. The soul transmigrates from one type of body to another type. And then there are 8,400,000 forms of body. So when we get this human form of body we get all intelligence. And we should utilize this intelligence how to stop this transmigration of the soul from one body to another. So what is your opinion?
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) If there's a certain criteria of proof or a certain evidence that we can know for certain that there actually is such transmigration of the soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again.
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: Yes, none of us are created. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā...
Guest (6): Yes, I understand now. I spoke earlier with some people... In other words you say we are co-eternal with the father just as Christ is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are all eternal. That is nityo nityānām. I have already explained. Nitya means eternal. There are two eternals: one chief eternal, God, and one subordinate eternals, they are plural number. God is one, and we are many. Father is one; the children are many. Similarly, both the father and the children are eternal. God is not created, and the childrens are not created. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā. All these living entity, they are never created; neither they ever die. Nityaḥ śāśvatam na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are eternal, ever existing. Even after the destruction of the body, they are not annihilated. So God is eternal. That I have already explained. And we living entities, we are also eternal. How the son can be otherwise? If the father is eternal, the son is also eternal. The son cannot be... Because son is the expansion, part and parcel of the father, so all the qualities of the father are there. The only quality difference is the father maintainer and the sons are maintained.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: The same thing. The living entity is there, but he is manifested in such a way. The same explanation. Just like there are many living entities within my body, and when this body is stopped, decomposed, they come out in different forms.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Are these living entities constant? They don't change any.
Prabhupāda: Yes, nitya, nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Why don't you see these references? It is never created. It is ever-existing, eternal. Only it appears to be temporary on account of accepting different material bodies. Therefore, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that he has changed his body, the same person. Just like father, mother knows. When a son becomes very stout and strong, the mother sees that same child. Others may be bewildered. One who has seen the child very long ago, now he has become robust build. He cannot say. And the mother says, "He is my child, that child." So paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).
Satsvarūpa: "For the soul there is never birth nor death, nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Prabhupāda: That's all. So where is the question of creation? But because we have got these material eyes, we want to see everything through this material manifestation. We are seeing that he is dead, he is alive, he is born, he is this, that...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that is the defect of the scientists. They only see the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their defect. Therefore asses, go-kharaḥ. That is defined. Anyone who takes the body as the self, he is a go-kharaḥ, animal. And that is our protest, that "You are animal; you are passing as very learned scholar, scientist." That we want to protest. We want to expose them, that they are cheating people. They have no perfect knowledge; still, they are passing as scientist and big men and... That is our protest.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:
Young man: Then how do we take the meaning of earthquakes and natural disasters which could destroy the lives of pure people as well as impure people?
Prabhupāda: No, every life is pure. The body is pure and impure. So anyway, after destruction, the life is not destroyed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The destruction of body does not mean that the soul is destroyed. No. He gets another body. The body is... one body is destroyed, and he transmigrates to another body. And so far your question about the earthquake, so suppose if there is plane crash, there are many good men, bad men, so everyone is crashed. But the good man gets a good body again; the bad man gets a bad body again.
Young man: The good man gets a better body or a good body?
Prabhupāda: Good, better or worst, bad, according to his karma. Just like your shirt. You throw away on account of being old. Now you have to purchase another. But there are many varieties of shirt-coat. As you pay for it, you get. If you can pay nice price, you get silk shirt-coat. But if you cannot, you get ordinary cotton or jute. So your body will be according to your karma, or work.
Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: No, maybe there. There were... All the kings of the world, they joined, either this party or that party. Friends, friendly countries, they joined. Just like Kṛṣṇa. He personally joined Arjuna, but He gave His soldiers to Duryodhana. It was family war. So the friends divided, "I will join you." It was sporting. For the kṣatriya fighting is sporting. They have football match. They did not take it as enmities. Just in the evening they are friends. This party goes to that party, that party goes to... It is a decision, who will be king, that's all. Test of strength. Actually it was not enmity. "Let us fight, and who is strong he will be king, that's all."
Devotee (1): And the losers will go to the heavenly planets.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who dies in such fight, he goes to heavenly planet.
Devotee (1): So they were not afraid of dying.
Prabhupāda: No, why? They knew. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "I am not going to die after the annihilation of this body." It was a common understanding. Not that such a man, big man, director, he says, "No, no, I don't believe in the soul." (chuckles) Therefore I said the fourth-class man. In India still, even a common man, uneducated farmer, he believes. He believes. He believes in God. He believes in transmigration. He believes in his karma. These things which will take thousands of years to be learned by the Westerners, even the common man knows still.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Dr. John Mize: I'm still puzzled about the relationship of the soul to God. If the soul is eternal, as God is, and yet some souls have the tendency to fall and others don't have that tendency...
Prabhupāda: No, no, eternal does not mean not fall. Suppose you are now professor. So you can fall down from your position. But that does not mean you are not eternal. If you are fall down from your position, you do not lose your eternity. You simply fall down. You can become a professor; you can become an ordinary man. But you are eternal in all circumstance. Eternal... Fall down does not mean that he loses his eternal. That is stated that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out. Ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The living entity is never born or it never dies. This is eternity. You change your body, but you eternal.
Dr. John Mize: It's so puzzling, though, why I would spend eternity...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore he requires that sattva-guṇa qualification.
Dr. John Mize: The what qualification?
Prabhupāda: That sattva-guṇa, goodness.
Dr. John Mize: I'm sorry...
Prabhupāda: Goodness.
Dr. John Mize: Goodness?
Bahulāśva: The mode of goodness.
Prabhupāda: Mode of goodness. Just like not that everyone can become a philosophy professor. It requires certain qualification. But everyone can become also. Everyone got the chance. Provided he is qualified, then he can take the post of a philosophy professor. Everyone has got the chance, not that you have got only the chance. Anyone has got the chance. But not that without having a certain qualification, one can become.
Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, accepting that there is a eternal soul, how is the soul distinguished, then, from the body or from the machine since things like the senses, the mind, the intelligence, desire and hate, which people accept as the symptoms of the soul...
Prabhupāda: That is the proof, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body is finished, no more working, the soul is there, he has accepted another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are educated, sober they are not surprised. Those who are not educated, they are surprised. Therefore this very word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He knows the soul has now left this body. He has accepted another body. That is dhīra. He knows by education. Therefore this very word... Find out.
Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda: Then God said, "Where is second person like Me? So I shall become your son." Then, in next life, Devakī got Kṛṣṇa as his child. So every father and mother should take this vow, that "Unless our children become first-class, we don't want children." This is ideal. What is the use of begetting cats and dogs? You must have first-class children. That requires tapasya. So at least we should follow the standard, how to raise our children to become first-class. There is no current? You can get on the light. At the present moment, people cannot understand even that there is life after death. Most people. There is life after death—they cannot understand, even big, big professors, big, big learned scholars. Everyone is thinking, "This body is accidental and when the body will be finished, everything is finished." That is the general understanding. But Bhagavad-gītā, you read. It is said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of the body, the soul is not destroyed." Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya navāni anyāṇi gṛhṇāti aparāṇi: (BG 2.22) "Just like when our dress becomes old enough not to be used, then we accept another dress, similarly, when this body is old enough, not workable, then we accept another body." These things are there. But who is trying to understand it? At least all our Indians, those who are born in India, wherefrom Bhagavad-gītā has come out, at least they should understand. But they are not understanding. They are interpreting Bhagavad-gītā in their own way. This is the difficulty. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and people are taking advantage of that.
Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:
Indian man (6): Yes. That is not our plan.
Indian man (5): Somebody else is controlling that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We learn that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This is my position. I am eternal. So why I am obliged to accept body which is hanyamāna?" These questions do not bother them. And where is my freedom? "I am eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die after the destruction of my body. Then why I am put into this body which will be destroyed, which will become old, useless? And where is my freedom?" These things do not bother them, and they are reader of Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man (6): Somebody told that they are made to come here...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian man (6): Is it the sin of some of the...?
Prabhupāda: No, that we shall consider. First of all we have to see that I learn that my position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So why I am put into this body which is hanyamāna? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Yes. (Hindi) They want to remain in darkness, and any leader who will keep him in the darkness in flowery language, he will be welcomed: "Oh, he is very good leader." "And this man is very conservative: 'Don't do this, don't do this, don't do this.' " So here is freedom. "Whatever you like, you do"—here is freedom. If this rascal does not do what you do and you go to hell, that is their business. Kṛṣṇa therefore says, "You rascal, where is your freedom?" Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you see. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So where is your freedom? First of all get out of these things; then question of freedom. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is your knowledge, that "Where is my freedom? If I am under the rules and regulation of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then where is my freedom?"
Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:
Prabhupāda: Why you are becoming old? Every moment you are being kicked. You cannot remain young. You are trying to remain young with pomade, with some color, with some this, tea, wig, and... But you cannot, rascal. You cannot. You must become old. And still, he is thinking that he'll be able to remain young. This is called dog's obstinacy. He has got experience that nobody can remain young. I'll also not remain young also, although I want it, "Yes, if I can remain young, that is good facility." That he knows, but he won't find the way how he can remain... Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Nitya. That path he will not take. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is the way." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam adyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanam (Bs. 5.33). Kṛṣṇa, the oldest man, oldest living being, but nava-yauvana, always fresh, young... You can get that position. You can play also, play Kṛṣṇa. But that path they will not take. Kṛṣṇa, ever-existingly young man, He is displaying in Vṛndāvana and inviting, "You can also come and join and live like this." "No. That's all. It is all fictitious. There was no Kṛṣṇa. There is no such thing." Immediately dismiss judgment. And by pomade, by injection, by, what is called? Hormone? All these rascals, they are trying to be young. Just see. You are doctor.
Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:
Dr. Patel: All, all good, these do good, sir. I believe you should not be very harsh to the scientist. I am sorry...
Prabhupāda: They are not scientists. They are rascals. I don't accept them as scientists. They, if they are putting forward theories every day, what kind of scientist? They are not scientist. Scientist means fixed up idea. It cannot be changed. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is scientist. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Harikeśa: Just consider how great they are. They've managed to isolate one little tiny electron and one little tiny positron, and then they send one one way, and they send one the other way, and then they meet and they smash.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit?
Harikeśa: But that's so difficult to do, you know. There are so many things get in the way.
Prabhupāda: So you can... Difficult to do, you can count ever... It is very difficult to count this sand. Can you count? It is very difficult. But you can waste your time in counting. (laughter) You are rascal; you can go on: "I shall count how many." But it is not possible. So that is rascaldom. Which is not possible, that we'll get. Now it is... Everyone knows there are some particles. Now you go on counting. Don't eat. Don't sleep. Go on counting. And śāstra says, ""Even if you are able to count this, you'll not be able to know God, even if you are able." This is not possible to count, but even if you become so expert that you can count one day, still it will be acintya tattva. That is... There is a verse that even one day you become the rolled sky... The sky is so big. You can roll it just like you roll up your bedding. And even if you can, all the atoms constituted, still you'll not be possible to know, understand God.
Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:
Brahmānanda: But they do not think that they are blind.
Prabhupāda: That is the disease. That is the disease. A diseased man never thinks that he is diseased. He thinks, "I am quite all right." But a physician will say, "Oh, no, no, you are diseased." He says, "I am quite all right." Cancer. And then, after few days, finished. They do not know that "Why I am dying?" They think death is natural. But Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They have no brain to inquire that here is information that even after the destruction, the jīva does not die. But he does not inquire. He says, "Death is natural. Let me die." This is blind. They agree to die. And Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "There is no death even after destruction..." They will not inquire about this. So blind. So blind. This should be inquiry, that "If it is a fact that even after destruction of the body I do not die, then what is that position?" That inquiry is also not there. They are so fool. That is human life, athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the spirit soul. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Bhelpuri? Very popular. Yes. Picnic.
Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: They might say, that is another thing. (Hindi conversation with man about blind leading the blind)
Lokanātha: (break) ...body is finished, everything is finished.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Lokanātha: When body is finished, everything is finished, so why...
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. You were a child; that body is finished. So you have got a different body. But this simple truth they do not understand; that is their folly. If the body is finished, then why you were a child, you have become a young man? Body is finished, but not everything is finished, everything is there. Only the body is finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is explained. So when the body is finished, that does not mean that you are finished. You have to accept another body. That is real truth, and it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, not any so-called scientist. The Supreme Person says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. What do they say about this statement of Kṛṣṇa, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre, that when your body is finished you are not finished?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People don't see what the gain will be. If one.... People don't see, in Western countries, or appreciate what the gain will be by exerting much effort in these ways.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know, what is the real gain. They think this body is the gain only. And beyond this body there is another gain. That is not known. They do not know even. That is the defect of their civilization. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are taking care of the body, but beyond the body there is something else which is eternal. Even after the annihilation of the body, it does not become destroyed. That they do not know. There is no education. There is no research. There is no college. There is no science to understand. And that kind of taking care of the body, a dogs know. Sometimes the dogs, they rub their body on the ground like that. That.... That makes them rejuvenated. Horse also do that. So how to take care of the body, they know in their different method. But that is known to them. If before the horse you give them some meat, they'll not take. And give them peas; they'll take immediately.
Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: It is eternal. There is no creation. If soul is created by some combination of matter, then you could create. That you cannot do.
Brian Singer: So there was no starting point in time.
Prabhupāda: No, eternal. And that is explained there. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. And another, na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit: "It is never created; it is never annihilated." You open that verse, na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
"For the soul there is never birth nor death, nor having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Brian Singer: Without the consciousness, what happens to the soul when the body dies?
Prabhupāda: He enters another body. Suppose if by force I get you out of this room, then you enter another room. That's all. But this is illegal, that you are living in this room.... By force if I get you out, that is illegal. Then I have to await for the punishment, "Why you have driven out this?" So similarly, although soul is immortal, but taking the soul is immortal, you cannot cut anyone's throat. He has got a right to live in that body for some time by the ordained order of the Supreme. I cannot get you out by force. That is sinful. By nature's way, when he gives up this body, that's all right. But I cannot force the soul to go out of this body by killing. That is sinful.
Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body, we are not dying. We remain. But we simply accept another body. So this is a great botheration. But people are in ignorance. They're thinking that after death there is no life. This ignorance is a great, I mean to say, difficult position. So we are trying to educate them how to get out of this entanglement of cycle, birth and death. And therefore there are so many books on this subject matter. It is a very serious movement. It is not compared to the so many rascal movements. So if you are serious, you can study our books, you can try to understand the philosophy, science; then the whole human society will be benefited.
Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:
Arnold Weiss: I understand that. It sounds reasonable to me. When we do this act for which we are punished, is it done in this life or done in some prior life?
Prabhupāda: This life or prior life, because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are eternal.
Arnold Weiss: Would the prior life have to be an animal life?
Prabhupāda: Yes, might be.
Arnold Weiss: Or could the prior life also be human life?
Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life, and you are one of them now, as you, as soul, you are the same; the body is changed. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said in the Second Chapter that "Arjuna, you, Me and all these persons who are assembled here, they existed in their previous lives, they are now existing, and they'll continue to exist." So our life is eternal. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This living entity, soul, is never born, neither he dies. It is simply change of body. Just like you just took this sweater. That means you are there, and you may give up the sweater again. So your body is changing like dress, but you are the same. So your... In previous... Just like now we are elderly gentleman, but we were a child. That's a fact. At that time the body was different. You are a young man; the body was different. And again you'll become old man like me, your body will be different. So in this life also we are experiencing going through different types of body. Similarly, after giving up this body, I'll have another body. Where is the difficulty to understand?
Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:
Jay Warner: How does one give up the fear of dying?
Prabhupāda: There is no death. You change body. Because the body is lost, you are no more, you do not possess the childhood body, youth-hood body, that does no mean you are dead. You are living; the body has changed. But because we do not know the science, we think "The body is finished; therefore he's dead." Therefore you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Find out the verse.
Hṛdayānanda:"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Prabhupāda: That's it. So as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gītā. You find it clear, na jāyate na mriyate, clearly said. Explain?
Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: The soul does not at any time become old, as the body does. The so-called old man therefore feels himself to be in the same spirit as in his childhood or youth. The changes of the body do not affect the soul. The soul does not deteriorate like a tree, nor anything material. The soul has no by-product either. The by-products of the body, namely children, are also different individual souls, and, owing to the body, they appear as children of a particular man. The body develops because of the soul's presence, but the soul has neither offshoots nor change. Therefore, the soul is free from the six changes of the body. In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad also we find a similar passage which reads:
- na jāyate mriyate vā vipaścin
- nāyaṁ kutaścin na babhūva kaścit
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
The meaning and purport of this verse is the same as in the Bhagavad-gītā, but here in this verse there is one special word, vipaścit, which means learned or with knowledge. The soul is full of knowledge, or full always with consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the symptom of the soul. Even if one does not find the soul within the heart, where he is situated, one can still understand the presence of the soul simply by the presence of consciousness.
Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:
Dr. Wolfe: The newest fad is now that they say that they're trying, they've established the fact that there is life after death.
Prabhupāda: There is.
Dr. Wolfe: They try to do this scientifically again.
Prabhupāda: Let them do. Scientifically, there is life after death. That we repeatedly say, that my child's body is dead, it's gone, vanished. I have got a different body. So after death there is life. This is practical. So this Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is authoritative statement of God, and practically we see that we get one body after another, but I continue. So where is the objection? So there is life after death. So-called death means annihilation of the body. So if we can stick to that life, that there is no more death, then that is to be sought after. That is intelligence. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa and you become fit to go back to Him, then no more death.
Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Where she is, English? English woman?
Dr. Wolfe: She is American, German-American.
Prabhupāda: Oh, she is here in America.
Dr. Wolfe: Yes, she lives here. She has worked in a clinic for many years, and exclusively with dying people.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.
Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: You see. As soon as there is immediately siren, I've seen it, also...
Richard: Are you afraid of death?
Prabhupāda: No. My position is different, because I know I'm not going to die. My position is different. Because we are confident, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are not going to die. Death is no question for us.
Richard: Umhm. Okay.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are not afraid of death. That is another thing. But generally, people, they are actually. Are you not afraid of disease?
Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:
Kathy Kerr: I notice all your followers obviously dress similarly and so forth.
Prabhupāda: We cannot get many followers. Because everyone is under this impression, "I am this body." And to get him released from this conception is not so easy job. So we cannot expect many thousands and millions. Only selected fortunate people will understand it. But everyone can understand it. It is very simple thing. But the modern education has made them so dull brain, they cannot understand, neither do they try to understand. That is the difficulty. Matter, subject matter, is very simple thing. I am changing bodies, but in spite of my change of body, I am the spirit soul existing. This is the first understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that I am not dead on account of my body being finished. My childhood body is finished, my boyhood body is finished, my youth-hood body is finished, but I am existing. I can remember that I was in such body, I was in such body, in such circumstances. When I was a child I was talking like this, I was jumping like this. But because that body is finished, I cannot do that. Now I have got a different body, I cannot jump like a child. This simple truth. But I know that I was jumping. That is not dream, that's a fact. But we are educated in such a foolish way that we cannot understand this simple truth. That has to be amended. Otherwise, there is no question of enlightenment in the human society.
Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:
Indian man: The question is, one must be able to see if there's a problem. People don't see it as a problem.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is your problem: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9)." Find out this verse.
Jayādvaita: Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes, find out. This is knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means one must be able to see that what are the actual problems. Just like the scientists, the philosophers, they're trying to solve so many problems. But first of all, fix up what is the problem. Temporary problem, to make a solution, that is going on. But actual problem is this: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The soul is not destroyed, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, at any time. One should be very prudent to see that "If I have no birth and no death, then what is this nonsense, birth and death?" That is knowledge. Why I am dying? Why there is birth problem? Why there is death problem? And as soon as there is birth problem, there is disease problem, there is old age problem. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says.... What is the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi?
Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:
Kīrtanānanda: You are actually putting the seeds of their destruction.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, what is destruction? It is, rather, construction. (laughter) He'll live. He'll live forever. This is destruction. You have to change body. But our method, this tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You don't get anymore material body. So that is saving. And without this? Tathā dehāntara-praptir. Then you have to accept another body. So which is better? To accept another material body or no more accepting material body? Which is better? But as soon as you accept material body, you have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So that requires knowledge. If we finish our suffering up to this body, that is intelligent. And if we create another body for suffering, is that intelligent? But you have to, unless you understand Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept. There is no alternative. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are so dull they cannot understand the simple truth that as the child, boy is accepting another body, we have to accept another body. They cannot understand. So dull brain. It will take five hundred years to teach them this very simple fact.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: We have already refuted. There is no such thing as Hinduism in the Vedic conception. It is sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama-dharma.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is sanātana-dharma so wide that everyone can be...
Prabhupāda: Sanātana means eternal. So na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The identification of the living entity is already described, that it does not perish after annihilation of this body. That is sanātana. So that is meant for everyone. Not that the Hindus, after giving up this body, exist, and the Muslim or Christian does not exist. Everyone exists. Everyone is eternal, so sanātana-dharma is meant for everyone.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there anyone actually outside of sanātana-dharma then?
Prabhupāda: If he thinks. Otherwise nobody is outside. If you think that you are not... There are so many rascals, they think that with the body everything is finished. But he may think so, but that is not fact. Similarly, if one thinks that "I am not sanātana-dharmi, I am Christian." You may think like that, but actually you are sanatanist. But if you think otherwise, you can think. Who can check it? When Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the soul does not annihilate after the destruction of the body, is it meant for the Hindus? Everyone. Everyone is a living entity, everyone is a soul, and he's eternal. And eternal means sanātana.
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: That is explained indirectly. What are those verses? Na chindanti, na dahati. Definition by negation. It is never dried up, it is never cut into pieces, it is never moistened. Why don't you find that verse? Negative way. Physical means this can be cut into particle, pieces, but here, it cannot be cut into pieces. Your physical and chemical, you have got idea. Any physical thing can be cut into pieces. But here the negative description is given. It cannot be cut into pieces. Now we have to see what is that thing which cannot be cut into pieces.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we say nonphysical, nonchemical.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is quite right. Physical, anything physical can be cut into pieces. Read it.
Hari-śauri: This is 2.20. "For the soul there is never birth nor death, nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (purport) "The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind. This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried."
Prabhupāda: This is nonphysical. This is not physical. Physical, what is that physical thing which cannot be burned, which cannot be cut, which cannot be soaked? There is no such thing to the physical exterior. Is there anything?
'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One last question, this stone thing. Now as a devotee we know that matter is also eternal in the form of pradhāna, described in Third Canto in...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have already explained, there are two energies. So if the energetic is eternal, the energy is also eternal. But the difference between the inferior and superior means one is manifested eternally and one is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. That is inferior. The matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Just like the cloud. What is this cloud? Cloud is also manifestation of the energy of the sun, is it not? But it is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. So that is the difference between the inferior and superior. Both of them are energies of the sun. But the cloud is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. But as energy, they are coming from the same source. (break) ...but matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Therefore it is inferior. And life is always manifested, therefore superior. I am soul, I am eternal. But this body is manifested now. It is existing eighty years or hundred years, but this body will be finished, finished forever. Then again another matter manifests. But I am the soul, eternal, this body or that body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). He is ever-manifest, either this body or that body, it doesn't matter. That is eternity. That is superior energy.
Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Tapasya means things we are going to accept may be not very pleasing, but still we have to do it. That is tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). We take bitter medicine just to cure our existence. Similarly, at the present moment, our existence is impure. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease on account of impure existence. Otherwise, we are spirit soul, we are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So we are not in eternal existence, we are temporary existence. We have got this body, it will be finished. Then we have to accept another body, tatha dehāntara praptir. Then again you live in that body for some time, and again the body is finished. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So this is going on. This is impure stage of our existence. So we have to purify it. Therefore to purify it tapasya required. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). The tapasya required. That tapasya has to be given lesson, trained up. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). That is brahmacārī system, to understand the value of life. These things are lacking in the present civilization, but it is essential. Without this, there is no meaning of human life.
Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, I was discussing. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planetary system where the devas, the demigods live. Their duration of life is very, very big. Our six months is equal to one day there. Such ten thousands of years they live. But they die. It is not permanent. But the duration of life is very big, the standard of life is very high. These are the advantages. But there is death, old age, disease; birth, death, old age and disease. But if you transfer yourself in the spiritual kingdom, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then you don't get any more material birth there. That is because we are eternal, we living entities. We do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After giving up this body we do not die actually; we accept another body.
Bill Sauer: I believe the spirit of life lives on totally in this marvelous planet earth, but I feel the spirit has to be carried and nurtured and improved in the body. So I feel we have to carry the bodies, the material bodies, to the other planets to allow the spiritualism to live there also.
Prabhupāda: That is in the material world. If you want to stay in the material, then you change the material body just suitable for a particular place, atmosphere. But we have got our spiritual body. That spiritual body, without any material covering, you can transfer to the spiritual world.
Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Bill Sauer: Is that immediately after one dies you transfer to another body, or later?
Prabhupāda: Yes, body is changing every moment. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Every body... Just like a child is changing his body to boyhood, boy is changing his body to youthhood, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The young man is becoming old man. Similarly, when the body is no more endurable, then you get another body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This body is being destroyed, we are not destroyed. We living entities, we are nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. We are eternal. The proof is given that the child is growing, getting the boy's body. That means the living entity is there, he has changed bodies. When a child is grown to become a boy, the father, mother do not think that "My child is no more existing." He knows "My child is existing, but in a different body." This is common sense. So we shall exist, we existed in the past, we are existing now and we shall exist in the future, but in a different body.
Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are carried away by the laws of nature. However you may improve your technological science, you are under the laws of material nature. That you cannot change. But if you revive your spiritual life, then you can change. Otherwise it is not possible. If you keep yourself under the laws of material nature, then you have to be carried away by the laws of material nature, however expert you may be in technological understanding. Because, after all, you are an instrument in the hands of material nature.
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
You are falsely thinking "I am everything. I can, by technological understanding, improve the condition." But the real problem is, as it is put forward by Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are put under the laws of material nature, by which we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease. This is our real problem. So unless you make a solution of these problems, there is actually no advancement of education. But the problems remains the same.
Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Prabhupāda: Yes, you are personally existing, you are old man. When you were a child, you were person. When you were young man, you were a person. Now you are old man, you are a person. We are personalities continuing although the body is changing. You are not missing your personality. So therefore personality continues even when you change this body. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Second Chapter. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).
Hari-śauri: Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20)?
Prabhupāda: No, there is another verse where Kṛṣṇa says, "My dear Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are assembled here..."
Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that verse.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
- na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ
- na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ
- na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ
- sarve vayam ataḥ param
Translation, "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means in the past we existed, at present we are existing, and in future we shall continue to exist, individually. And that is our experience. I existed in the past as a child. So I existed as a person. I existed as a young man, so I existed as a person. I am an old man now, now I am existing as a person.
Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:
Mr. Davis: And the spirit would not necessarily have the ability to point and say "I used to be in that body or that body or that."
Prabhupāda: No, that he forgets. Death means forgetfulness. Just like accepting that I was existing in previous life, but now I do not remember. This is death. But I am existing, that's a fact. The same example. Everyone knows that he was existing as a child, he was existing as a young man. So because it is short period, I remember, but when the body is completely changed, the atmosphere is completely changed, we forget. But actually I exist continually. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the authoritative statement, that I am not annihilated on account of my body being annihilated. So they bury the body or giving some name, some tomb, that is the business of my relatives, my friends, my family members. But as I am, I am aloof from this. I have accepted another body. And then begin my life in a different way. So people do not try to understand this science, how it is happening. That is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we study Bhagavad-gītā very carefully, we can understand the philosophy of life correctly.
Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:
Prabhupāda: Explain to them about eternal life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eternal life?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eternal life is described by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā: ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇaḥ.
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
Eternal means without a beginning and without an end. So this body, this human form of life, or tree form of life, or animal form of life, aquatic form of life, it has a beginning and it has an end. But the person, the soul, has no beginning or end. This is described by Kṛṣṇa that: dehino 'smin yathā dehe, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). We've experienced in our practical lifetime that we were very tiny, youth, we had a small body, child's body: kaumāraṁ yauvanam. Then youthful body, then we're having old man, old woman's body, like this.
Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:
Rāmeśvara: Our philosophy, as Prabhupāda said in the beginning, is that spiritually there is no end. There is no such thing as death for the soul, self-realized soul. There is simply death of the body.
Prabhupāda: These things are discussed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. It is an educational movement, it is not a religious movement, sentiment. One requires to be educated; then he is completely on the spiritual platform.
Interviewer: Let me ask you one more question before he reads the passage.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all about death.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The translation is, "For the soul there is never birth nor death nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Prabhupāda: So there is no question of death for a spiritually realized person.
Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:
Mike Robinson: So when people die, it is just the physical body that dies.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained very elaborately in the Bhagavad-gita: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Mike Robinson: Are you there referring to references from the scriptures?
Prabhupāda: Yes, so many references. It is a series of education. What is that? Read it.
Harikeśa:
- na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
- nāyaṁ bhūtva bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
- ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam purāṇo
- na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
- (BG 2.20)
"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."
Mike Robinson: Thank you very much for reading that. So can you explain to me just a bit more, if the soul is undying, does everybody's soul go to be with God when they die? Do you have a belief in a heaven or a hell?
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If he's qualified, if he qualifies himself in this life to go back home, back to Godhead, then he can go. If he does not qualify himself, he gets another material body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. And according to his desire and karma, activities, the nature, laws of nature, gives him a body. Just like a man infects some disease and he develops that disease. Is it difficult to understand?
Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, belief changes. Belief changes with the change of the body. Just like a man is thinking that "I am Iranian," "I am Indian," so long this body is Iranian or Indian or American. But the body will change. Then he'll think otherwise. So this belief is also temporary. It will be finished with the body. The body is temporary, and the belief, along with the body, that is also temporary. But I am eternal. That is to be understood. That is spiritual knowledge.
Ali: Sure, that is what I am practicing right now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The spirit soul, which is eternal, which is never lost, even by the annihilation of the body, we have to understand about that thing, that is spiritual knowledge. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. First to understand what you are, you are not this body. This is spiritual knowledge. When one understands thoroughly that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," then he is no more Hindu, Muhammadan, or Christian or nothing. He's spirit soul, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is called brahma-bhutaḥ. At that time, there is no such conception, that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." Because he's not body. He's not body. That is pure understanding. And then spiritual knowledge begins. So long I shall think myself as Hindu, Muslim, Christian, there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge.
Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:
Harikeśa: "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. This body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."
Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education.
Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharaḥ, and he's posing himself as paṇḍita. This is the position. The whole education is to realize that "I am not this body, I am soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Then he'll be happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharaḥ. That is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Then what kind of paṇḍita he is? Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), nityam, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ: the śarīra is antavat, perishable. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīrinaḥ. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be jijñāsuḥ. Then what will be my next position? What kind of body I am going to get? That is intelligent. But nobody has this intelligence, and he's passing as paṇḍita. Big, big professor, they'll say, "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." I went to Moscow. There was a big professor, Kotovsky, Indology professor. So we had some talks. So he does not believe transmigration of the soul, and he's a learned scholar. And everywhere you find that. The same atheistic philosophy.
Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: So enjoy life. "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. "Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee, and prepare nice preparation and enjoy." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet, yāvāj jivet sukhaṁ jivet. So long you live, enjoy. "I'll become a debtor. Then I'll act sinfully." Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar agamano bhavet. Your body will be burnt and everything finished. This philosophy is going on. But Kṛṣṇa says: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the body is burned, don't think that you are burned. You are living. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who is caring for that? Nobody cares. And still they are passing as paṇḍita, philosopher, scientist. This is misfortune of the present civilization. A person who is equal to go-kharaḥ, he is the teacher, he is the philosopher, he is leader.
Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:
Indian man: Misery of life is to be like this only. To live like this without the divine knowledge or without...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miseries of life, real miseries of life that you are soul, eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. There is no birth, there is no death. So therefore the birth and death is real misery. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is knowledge. But they have no brain. It is clearly said that na jāyate na mriyate vā. But these rascals never think "Why I am getting birth? Why I am dying?" So rascal. It is clearly said na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Where is that education? They do not know what is miseries. And they are trying, struggling to get out of misery. But they have no knowledge what is the actual misery. And therefore Kṛṣṇa pointing out, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge. Simply wasting time. They do not know what is the problem of life and how to solve it. They have no education. So which way? Which way?
Mahāṁsa: Either we can go a little longer and come back, or we can go this way.
Harikeśa: The car is here if you want to go.
Prabhupāda: So, come on. Let us talk. (break) ...problem of life. But they do not care for it. Nobody is serious about this point, that we learn that I am ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am spirit soul, and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), I am not finished after finishing this body. Who is caring? Then what is my position? Any gentleman, suppose we have given notice that you have to vacate this house, this apartment. Your term is finished. So he finds out another house. But what these rascals are doing? They are so foolish. The notice is there, that any moment you'll be kicked out. And where you are going? Where to stay? And they are intelligent. And they're intelligent. They are struggling for existence, but who will allow you to exist? That the small brain cannot think. Who will allow you to exist? But they foolishly say struggle for existence. Survival of the fittest. Who is fit? He does not know.
Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:
Indian man: You mean to say eternally there is a soul and... This ātmā and Paramātmā will remain separate?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the... Therefore it is said: nitya-yuktā upāsate. Therefore the word is there, nitya-yuktā. Nitya means everlasting.
Indian man: Everlasting. You remain separate.
Prabhupāda: Separate. And that is a fact.
Devotee: Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7).
Prabhupāda: There are so many things. But here it is said nitya-yuktā upāsate. Even they come to the platform of nitya, where there is no birth and death. That is nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Even that platform, Bhagavān remains different than the devotee who worships.
Indian man (2): Eternally?
Prabhupāda: Eternally. That is nitya-yuktā upāsate. There is no oneness. Otherwise why it is nitya-yuktā upāsate? Nityo nityānām. The nityānām, plural number, and nitya, Bhagavān. So nitya-yuktā upāsate.
Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:
Doctor: How to find the...? How to get to the ātman, the inner body?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that first of all, try to understand what is the person. So because we have no eyes to see, indirectly dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). So many things. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. So many indirect way because we cannot directly perceive.
Doctor: Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ (BG 2.23).
Prabhupāda: What is called? Definition by negation. Nainaṁ chindanti—negation. So that you can have some idea.
Doctor: Of what it is.
Prabhupāda: It is not material. Because matter, chindanti, any matter it can be destroyed. It can be cut into pieces, it can be melted in fire, it can be moistened. So when we cannot understand things, it is given in the definition of negation.
Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:
Prabhupāda: The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.
Indian man (4): In theory everybody believes it, that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Prabhupāda: No. What is that nonsense theory? We must know it actually. What is the use of theory? Theory is no good. You must know factually. That is knowledge. Theory is not knowledge. Anyone can put forward some nonsense theory. That is not knowledge. Knowledge means factual. That is... So we have to take knowledge...
Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purely a spiritual movement. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult to understand the activities of this movement. There are two things, material and spiritual. That is the beginning of instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa begins with this statement: that this body is not the person, the soul is the person. Asmin dehe. Within this body there is the soul. And he has explained in different ways that this body is antavanta ime dehā (BG 2.18). This body is perishable, but the soul is not perishable. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that even after the destruction of the body the soul is not destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul never takes birth, never dies. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). There are so many things explained, what is the soul. So without the soul, this body is useless. That everyone can understand. Therefore the importance should be given to the soul, not to the body. Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who is paṇḍita, in knowledge, he does not give any importance to the body, either living or dead. So the India's particular culture is how to elevate the soul to the highest platform of perfection. That is India's culture. The whole Vedic literature is meant for that, and Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literature.
Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:
Mr. Malhotra: Why this trying to understand Kṛṣṇa? Why not try to understand one's self? Kṛṣṇa passed 5000 years ago. Now ashes are there in our hands. Why not...
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is... Why Kṛṣṇa? You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. You are nitya, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, you are nitya. Why do you say Kṛṣṇa existed 5000 years ago? He is existing always.
Mr. Malhotra: Always existing there. (indistinct) Within you, within oneself.
Prabhupāda: No no. You are also nitya, but you are part and parcel of that nitya. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God is nitya, you are also nitya, God is also living, you are also living. What is the difference between the two? That one person He is maintaining all of us. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So this is knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. God is one. I am also individual. But we are many because we are all living entities. But God is one. We are controlled by God or God's nature. We are not one.
Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:
Mr. Malhotra: As long as I continue my identity that "I am so and so, I am this body," or "I am a person, or ātmā seated in this body, or dwelling in this body," when I dislodge my body from ātmā, then what is the position?
Prabhupāda: You are different from the body. You are different from the body. You are soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body is temporary, you are eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are nityaḥ śāśvata. You are never killed even after the destruction of the body. That should... That is real understanding, that I am not this body. After annihilation of this body, I shall continue. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). You should know that you are eternal part and parcel of God. God is eternal. Just like gold and a small particle of gold, both of them are gold. A small particle of gold, it is also gold, but not equal to the gold mine. That is real understanding. And because you are little gold...
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu: completely detached from family life, anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ, not to associate with so-called society, family, community.
Yogi Amrit Desai: All detachment from everyone.
Prabhupāda: This is all material. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Then?
Jagadīśa: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.
Prabhupāda: Nityam. One must know that "I am eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "So I must act accordingly." And so far material distress and happiness is concerned, sama-cittatvam.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Sama-cittatvam under both success and failure.
Prabhupāda: That is immaterial thing. They are superficial.
Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Everyone is thinking that this life is everything for twenty years or thirty years or hundred years-eat, drink, be merry, enjoy then everything is finished. The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand. They have been so poorly educated that it is very difficult. But this is the first beginning of knowledge and if we are in the conception that "I am this body and the body is everything," then we are no better that the cats and dogs. So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra.
Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal. Why I am put into this difficulty, changing this body?" This is common sense. "Why I shall die? Why not stop death?" That is knowledge. That is knowledge. But then going on, (Hindi): "Everyone dies. I will die. What is that?" But why you shall die? You live. And Kṛṣṇa gives the formula. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this process.
Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So, dharmasyāsya janma, parantapa. Aśraddadhānāḥ... Like that. Then that service is useless. If he continues, punar api janma, punar, then his service to the humanity useless. Therefore our service to the humanity should be aimed how to awaken his original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is real service. (pause—someone says something—Hindi) It is... There is no benefit. Simply labor of love. That's all. And just like to make one Hindu from Christian. So what benefit you'll get? He is under wrong impression that "I am Christian," and he's brought into another wrong impression—"I am Hindu." But he's neither Hindu nor Christian. He's servant of God. So to turn the Christian, to bring him to become a Hindu, it is useless labor. What benefit? A dog is also thinking, "I am dog." And if somebody is thinking, "I am Hindu," so where is the difference? Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one thinks, "This body, I am"—either Hindu or Muslim or dog or cat, if one is thinking in that way, that "I am this body,"—sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's animal. So from one animal to another animal—from cat to dog or from dog to cat—where is the benefit? The position is the same. As a cat he will that "Meow," and as a dog, he'll "Gowl." That's all, that much difference. But he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). What is benefit of such humanitarian work? And Bhagavad-gītā says mām upetya kaunteya punar janma na vidyate. No more either cat or dog. Mām eva. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. Punar janma means if I am cat, I become a dog, or if I am a dog, I become cat. That is punar janma. So that will continue his birth and death. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). What is that benefit? Suppose I am now human being and next life I become either dog or a demigod. So the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9) is there, either you become a demigod or a dog. But your position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You have to come to that position.
Indian (1): That is the philosophical and spiritual position.
Prabhupāda: That is real position. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). If you are under the law of birth and death, then it is useless, the same thing, either you become cat or dog or god or anything. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). So even if you take your birth in the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, still, the birth, death, old age is there.
Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: (Hindi—woman answers in Hindi) Call Pālikā. Just teach her... Take her in the kitchen and teach her how to make tilaka.
Pālikā: How to make tilaka, yes.
Prabhupāda: Tilaka, dvādaśa-tilaka. You just go and learn. (break) What is that? (break) Otherwise there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Actually there is no death. This forgetfulness is death. We have forgotten: "Who was our father, who was our mother, where I was born?" That is death. And otherwise I am the soul, continuing. Just like in childhood so many things we did, but we have forgotten. The forgetfulness is death. The more one forgets, the more one is dead. Otherwise there is no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā: "Never takes birth, never dies." Then what is death? Death is forgetfulness. So you can begin now. (break) ...big, big buildings, the same spirit as karmīs are doing. But this desire to construct very big building, when transferred for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. So we have got this tendency, everyone, to possess money, to have very big buildings and so on, so on. You do it for Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be bhakti. Otherwise karma. And karma means to be bound up by the laws of nature.
Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... (break) ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary. There is another life." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This śarīra is not..." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. So many things.... The Bhagavad-gītā is full of information, but we don't take advantage. We are so unfortunate. And it is our country. This is Indian culture. We have given up this. (Hindi) Gandhiji, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. And the such a big āśrama, Sevagrama. Where is Bhagavad-gītā arcana? Boliye.
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Gargamuni: Well, first we have to explain that Kṛṣṇa has a transcendental body. If they don't understand that, then how can we explain Kṛṣṇa's disappearance?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am asking how would you explain. The answer is that we living entities, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We do not die, na jāyate na mriyate vā, kadācit, at any time. We do not take birth; we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Even by destruction of this body, we do not die. You know this? So we are part and parcel. If we are eternal, how Kṛṣṇa can be...? Hm? If my finger is eternal, how the body is not eternal? How the body can be dead? So why did He die like that, appearing as dead? That is His līlā. That He has, so many līlās. So why this līlā? Just to cheat you. You are atheist, and to keep you atheist forever, so that in your life after life you'll not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore He is doing, just to cheat you. Because you are atheist, you cannot think of Kṛṣṇa properly. To keep you in darkness forever He manifests this līlā.
Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: Revived means the body was in order.
Rāmeśvara: Temporarily he left.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, if the body is too much mutilated, it is impossible.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. This is just those rare cases where it is just like almost mutilated completely, but still, it is revived.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many cases. The asuras who had died, Sukrācārya used to bring them again in life, whose body was not mutilated.
Rāmeśvara: This article will have a great effect on people. They will be convinced that after death of this body there is still life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Na hanyate hanyamāne... (BG 2.20). Because the body is destroyed, that does not mean the soul is destroyed.
Rāmeśvara: But they are not giving the complete idea.
Prabhupāda: They have no...
Rāmeśvara: No. They are not explaining that from this subtle state you again enter another gross body.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: That is the fact, but he... Why he questioned this, "How Kṛṣṇa was killed?"
Guest (1): I was not there.
Guest (2): Yesterday we sat here. (both talking at once)
Prabhupāda: Ordinary question... Kṛṣṇa has advised in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, na hanyate hanyamāne śarī... (BG 2.20). This is for living entity, soul. And living entity is the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So the part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, na jāyate na mriyate. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme whole, He was killed." Just see the question, fun. Means he has no common sense even—"Kṛṣṇa was killed." "The part and parcel cannot be killed, but the whole can be killed." Just see his intelligence. If I say, "Not a single portion of this room can be destroyed," but "The whole house was destroyed," what is this nonsense? Part and parcel... Na jāyate na mriyate kadācit. Kadācit, this word, is used, "at any time." And "The whole is killed."
Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Prabhupāda: What this material advance? You don't want to die; you have to die. Where is material advancement?
Hari-śauri: But there's no poverty or anything like that.
Prabhupāda: There is poverty. And "We are..." The same thing: "Mother, everything is all right. Simply there is no cloth, there is no food." You don't want to die. Nobody wants to die. Why you are dying? That is the real poverty. From the śāstra we understand, na hanyate hanyamāne śarī... (BG 2.20). Why I am under this tribulation?
Yogeśvara: So they may challenge, "Do you mean to say that you can feed the whole world without meat?"
Prabhupāda: We don't say; you are saying. We don't say. We say that you must be punished without food. You are dying without food. That is your proper justice. We say that. We are not anxious to this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. We are not. We give. Whatever we have got, we distribute prasādam. That's all. We are not concerned about their daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. That is not our business. Suppose there are so many persons, they are without food in the hospital. Doctor has prescribed, "No food." What you can do there? Can you show your sympathy? "Oh, so many persons are lying without... Let us give." Then you'll be beaten with shoes.
Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the basic laws of nature, which we cannot alter. We cannot change. It will come sooner or later.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the use?
Yogeśvara: But let us say by his karma a man is in a position where he cannot perceive...
Prabhupāda: That is the... That is in the via media. The real trouble is there—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Now if you can make change... Suppose you are now a dog. You can become a man. But that is not solution. Or you are man; you can become a demigod. Karma. But that does not make solution! Either you become demigod or man or dog or cat or insect, you must have these tribulations, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is God's challenge. You first of all make solution. But you are eternal. Why you are in this condition? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You... That means you are eternally suffering, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), simply changing the position. But suffering's there. So you are taking credit by little change of the position. And that is your foolishness. And God challenges you, "You make solution of these things." Why little change? Suppose I am... I have got so many centers. Sometimes I live in the palace, other times a cottage. So this is change of position. But I am the same man. So whatever comfort or discomfort is there in that you France palace, the same comfort and discomfort is in this cottage. But if I think, "Now I am in the France palace, or Bhaktivedanta Manor palace. I am happy," that is foolishness.
Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. So they're coming around. When we say life is nonphysical and nonchemical, this is very touchy word which they don't like to hear in the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, "nonphysical." Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ, nainaṁ śoṣayati āpaḥ (BG 2.23). Everything, five elements, material... It has nothing to do with these five elements, clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is beyond this. Here whatever you find is kṣitir āpaḥ tejaḥ marud vyomā: earth, water, air, fire. That's all. But beyond that, it is not physical. And at last, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Everything is there. So I was confident in the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore I strongly stressed, "This is all wrong." I believed completely in the words of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. I never experimented. But I know what Kṛṣṇa says is completely right.
Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: That you have to prove, that "You have no brain, no intelligence. Therefore you are finding out completely different. On which platform we are speaking, you do not know. So that platform, first of all you have to distinguish—it is matter or spirit? Then spiritual. You have no idea what is spirit, and where is spiritual platform. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this point, that the spirit is within, not this body. That is your identity."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has to be stressed.
Prabhupāda: That has to be understood, and therefore He's explaining in so many ways. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This one word, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. He cannot understand it. "The body's finished, everything's finished." These rascal professors. And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20), "Don't think it is finished. It is there." Who will understand it? It requires a special brain. These rascals say, "Now everything's finished. The body's finished." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, no. Not finished." Who will understand this, unless he has got a very good brain? And our education begins from that point. These rascals, when they are disappointed—"Bas, finished"—we begin from there. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. It is there. Where it is? Dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) he has taken another body. A man is sleeping; he has taken another body. He's jumping on the tree. How we can see? It's a fact. He has forgotten that "I am on a nice bed," and he's somewhere else. How it is? You see that he is sleeping, that he's not working. But he is working. Where is that brain? And it is a fact. I see the man is sleeping, but he has gone somewhere else. That is our daily experience.
Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So we're desiring one after, one after, one after, one after... The last desire... Because if you become addicted to certain type of desire, that is prominent at the time of death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6), sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. So māyā's machine is immediately prepared. That mind—manaḥ buddhiḥ ahaṅkāra. Subtle. You cannot see. You see the body is burned, finished. Rascal, that is not finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. There is subtle body. The subtle body carries. The example is just like flavor of rose garden carries, similarly, the desire is carried, and he requires a machine to ride on, particular. So there are eighty-four million machines, and he's, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by the supervision of māyā, carried to this mother's womb. The soul is injected through the semina of the father, and he enters the womb of the mother, and mother gives the ingredients, develops his body, and as soon as it is complete, comes out. Where is the difficulty to understand this transmigration of the soul? These rascals have no brain. That verse I have explained this morning.
Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:
Ādi-keśava: That disturbs them the most, that we are condemning everything they believe.
Prabhupāda: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical.
Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed. I am thinking I am on the Himalayan top. So as it is possible even in this body, similarly, I get another body, gross body. Then I forget this body. This is transmigration. I have explained it. This is the factual. Everyone can experience. I have got a period of remaining in this body. So as soon as this period is finished I get..., I create another body and enter it. And because the period is not finished, although in dream I am getting another body and going to the Himalaya, top, or I'm going to my New York apartment, still, I have to come back because period is not finished. Simple thing. This is transmigration. Why I shall be put into this condition because my original position is eternal? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That we are teaching to the whole world: "Why you are suffering with this body? Get out of the body." This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is the best welfare activity to the human society, but because they are so dull, they cannot understand. Mūrkhāṇām upadeṣo hi prako... If first-class rascal is advised, he thinks otherwise, that "He is bothering me." So what can be done? We have taken this daṇḍa, we have accepted service of Kṛṣṇa, and if He has ordered that "You preach this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. You'll become My very dearest servant," He'll show them. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścit. So we want to be very faithful to our master, so you may come against us. We don't mind. Jesus Christ was crucified. He didn't mind. So if you are unnecessarily prosecuting us, we don't mind. We must go on with our duty. We cannot give it up. That's all. It is not possible.
Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:
Ādi-keśava: They don't have it.
Prabhupāda: No. "But you do not know. We get this information, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). Eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Therefore we are trying for that. But you are so dull, in spite of having so many... Therefore the resultant action is you are producing hippies at the end. And how you can be satisfied anymore? They are disgusted with this eating, sleeping, mating business. Now you'll have only hippies." They're disgusted with this system of education, because it is not education at all. This is keeping them in ignorance. "Dog is lying on the street, and a man is lying on the hundred second floor. What is the result? Result is sleeping. Is that improvement? The dog is sleeping very peacefully; you are sleeping-'Oh, there is tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Save me! Save me.' Will that skyscraper building help you in your mental agitation? Is that education? Everyone is taking pill to sleep. You cannot sleep even peacefully, and you are claiming that you are educated." Give this defense. "Here the dog can sleep very peacefully. You cannot sleep even peacefully. This is the resultant action of your so-called education. You are proud of this education, this life, this civilization. You are so brainless, it requires to be washed. Therefore we say it is full of stool. We have come to wash it. That is our thankless duty." What can be done?
Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: No, who is healthy if he's going to die? "I am so healthy that I am going to die tomorrow." This is their health.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Illusion. They don't know. Every one of those questions was about the body.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That is healthy, when you do not die even the body is destroyed. That is healthy life. What is this healthy life? The body is finished and everything, everything is... Actually everything is finished. And to keep people in that ignorance—"The body is finished; everything is finished." That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa very clearly said, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even how it is possible. That is the most important question. Some lady asked me, "What is the important...?"
Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: As a gentleman, I can give him some respect. That is another thing. But he's a rascal. You must know that "I am talking with a rascal number one." So I... He cannot deviate me from my position. But I can talk in a nice way, gentlemanly. That is another thing. That is courtesy. But I know that these rascals, number fools, number one fools, they have no idea. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). In this way they are rotting within this universe. Kabhu svarge kabhu martye narake ḍubāya. Sometimes by puṇya they are in the higher planetary system, some powerful lokas(?). Sometimes fish, sometimes demigod, sometimes dog and cat. This is going on. Kṛṣṇa says. Nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, botheration. Then there is... We have got this... Any intelligent person gets the Bhagavad-gītā. The rascals are reading Bhagavad-gītā, do not understand a line even. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They do not question even. And after the destruction, body, I am not annihilated. Then where I am going? What is my next life? Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not die. The body is changed. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). So everything is clearly said. They do not inquire even that "After changing this body or change dress, what kind of body or dress I am going to have?" Answer is there. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu. Everything there. And they are reading Bhagavad-gītā. Gandhi's reading Bhagavad-gītā. Tilak is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Where is their knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā? And misleading all, writing commentary, "Bhagavad-gītā means nationalism, nonviolence," protesting that "If Kṛṣṇa is fighting, I don't want that Kṛṣṇa, even I am extricated from the Hindu society." Gandhi has said. Bhagavad-gītā should be according to his whims. If you can change the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā, then why you take Bhagavad-gītā? Is that authority?
Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: And we have got so many materials. If we discuss on this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it takes days to understand.
Mr. Rajda: Quite.
Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate?
Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
- mām upetya punar janma
- duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
- (BG 8.15)
Prabhupāda: Mām upetya punar janma duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. So long you have to accept another body, you must suffer. Suffering means this body. That Kṛṣṇa says. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Real suffering is here, that you have to take your birth, you have to die, you have to suffer from disease and old age. But your position is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Your business is not to take birth and die. But why you are suffering? Nobody wants to die. You must die. Nobody wants to become old man. He must become. So you do not know what is suffering and how to mitigate it. And Kṛṣṇa points out, "This is suffering." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge.
Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:
Yadubara: Just like in this last film, we suggested that there is a soul in the hand sequence—when the hands were always changing, and the body grows old. So the idea was that there is something that's not changing there. So in film there are certain techniques we can use to suggest, as Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami said, certain ideas.
Prabhupāda: Idea, that idea is given there. Just like you cannot see the flavor, but still, you are smelling, some flavor is nice. In the air, it is rose flavor, it is passing. You cannot see what is that flavor and how it is being carried, but you can smell. Similarly, the soul is being carried by the mind, ego and intelligence. You cannot see it, but you have to understand by hearing from the authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho (BG 7.5). Beyond this material things, there is another prakṛti. That is the... That does not die. Na jāyate na mriyate. And that is being carried by mind, intelligence and ego. By our gross eyes, we see the body is burnt into ashes, finished. Soul and everything is finished. The atheist will say like that. Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya tataḥ punar āgamano bhavet.(?) "If the body is already burnt into ashes, who is coming and who are going?" The atheists. Kṛṣṇa does not say. No. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? That is our process. The atheist will say "It is burnt into ashes. Where, where is soul?" Kṛṣṇa says, "No," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He is not dead. He has gone to another body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Those who are sober, they are not disturbed. So we have to become sober. These restless rascals, how they will become sober? Suppose a child is restless child, how can you convince him about philosophy? Sober man, cool-headed man, he can be convinced. So this is a childish civilization. This is not sober civilization. There is no full-brain man. All restless dogs and hogs. And they have taken it is first class, dogs and hogs. Actually, they are living dogs and hogs, and they are claiming civilized. There is no difference dogs and hogs life and the modern man. The dogs and hogs whole day work. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate.
Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body... Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line. This is the fact now going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). If you accept this first principle... You have to accept. Accept or deny, it doesn't matter. You are young man. I say that you will become old man. You accept or deny, it doesn't matter; you must be an old man. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it. "Never mind what body I am going to get next. It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy this body." This is animal civilization. The dog, at night barking, jumping, he is not able to understand, what is next life, what is rebirth, what is his... He cannot understand. But a human being can understand. So if he is put into the darkness, then what is the difference between animal and human being? So this is the problem. So we are trying (in) our humble way to give this knowledge to the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And our request to everyone is that "You try to understand the philosophy and cooperate."
Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Prabhupāda: So why they are so much busy in solving the problems of nationalism?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they are identifying themselves with their bodies.
Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years.
Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: This is going on. Therefore this life is preparation for the next life. These are simple truth. But people are in ignorance. They do not know anything. And they're keeping them in ignorance and bluffing them in so many ways. The whole duty, I am going... If I am going to accept another body, then where is the question of my nationalism? If I am eternal... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), na jāyate na mriyate vā. If I do not take my birth, if I do not die, and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), and I'll have to accept another body, then, so long I have got this body, I may be big politician, big philanthropist, but next life, if I am going to be dog, then where is the value of this prime ministership, big, big...? And where is my nation? Where is my country? Where is my family? So things are going on in ignorance. And they are kept in ignorance. And big, big worship, your... Nānuśocanti. This is going on. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for reforming all these nonsense activities. This is sum and... Everyone's kept in ignorance, and being frustrated, they want to make it zero. Where is zero? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). There is no question of zero. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). But the rascal are thinking, "Make it zero," in gross disappointment. But there is life, just hope for a blissful life, for eternal life. And that is really we want to make. And you want to make it zero? Actually it is not zero. You do not know your ignorance. So this rascaldom is going on, and there are many supporters. What can be done? We are trying to reform the society.
Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: If you get the association of Kṛṣṇa, then you haven't got to come here, this material world. Duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam. Either you take birth in a very rich, aristocratic family, born in the upper planetary system as demigods-Brahmā, Indra, Candra, like that—or you take your birth, an insignificant ant; wherever you are in material body, it is duḥkhālayam. That you cannot avoid. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). And you cannot make any compromise that "Never mind it is very much miserable. I shall enjoy." So that also will not be allowed. Aśāśvatam. Your tendency is to live forever. So that will not be allowed. Aśāśvata. So this requires knowledge, intelligence, that "If I am eternal," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), "I am not destroyed even this body is destroyed," then you should seek after eternal happiness. Why temporary? That is not in your interest. That happiness is there when you go back to Kṛṣṇa; otherwise not. These are the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if we do not try to understand the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, and if we theorize, "Bhagavad-gītā means nonviolence. Bhagavad-gītā means to become patriot," these are materialism. We should avoid this wrong interpretation, misguiding direction of blind leaders. We'll not get any benefit out of it. So we are trying to rectify this. That's all. Everything is there. Any question is solved by Kṛṣṇa.
Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: Why he does not remain here?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He does his work at the Svargāśrama. He's supposed to come here to explain. He's been coming every day.
Prabhupāda: You recite that verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). The instruction of King Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He said that "This body, human body..." Ayaṁ dehaḥ. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "After this body is finished, another body...," because ātmā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Ātmā is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Therefore this is the problem. The ātmā has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This ignorance of self-realization must be removed." Therefore He says, ayaṁ dehaḥ: "This body should not be misused like animals," āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. This is the advice. Ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. He especially mentions, nṛloke: "in the human form of body." The dog, cat, or doglike man, catlike man, they may remain in ignorance.
Arrival Speech -- May 17, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So I cannot speak. I am feeling very weak. I was to go to other places like Chandigarh program, but I cancelled the program because the condition of my health is very deteriorating. So I preferred to come to Vṛndāvana. If death takes place, let it take here. So there is nothing to be said new. Whatever I have to speak, I have spoken in my books. Now you try to understand it and continue your endeavor. Whether I am present or not present, it doesn't matter. As Kṛṣṇa is living eternally, similarly, living being also lives eternally. But kīrtir yasya sa jīvati: "One who has done service to the Lord lives forever." So you have been taught to serve Kṛṣṇa, and with Kṛṣṇa we'll live eternally. Our life is eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). A temporary disappearance of this body, it doesn't matter. Body is meant for disappearance. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So live forever by serving Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much.
Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Disease? So what is the benefit? One disease after another disease...
Śatadhanya: They say that the life-span is getting more years.
Prabhupāda: That is another bluff. Formerly people used to live very long. Actually in this Kali-yuga the limitation is one hundred years. But who is living one hundred years?
Śatadhanya: Even less.
Prabhupāda: Fifty, sixty... Average India, thirty-five years. In your country a little more. Nobody lives hundred years. That is also another bluff. But even if you live for hundred years, does it mean that you have stopped death? Then what is the benefit? You are eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are eternal, but why you are dying? What the scientists have done? Na jāyate na mriyate. Eternal means one who has no birth, no death. But you have birth and death, so where is your scientists' help?
Upendra: The reason the original faith was placed in the scientists was because radio, airplanes, tape recorders have been manufactured, and people are impressed by these originally.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? Without radio, people were dying, or with radio they are not living?
Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: So that I am seeing, how to... That was the problem. They said, "What will be the benefit, satyavādī?" Satya śamo damo titikṣa, jñāna... (Hindi) So culture is lost. That is the difficulty.
Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is... (Hindi) This is the defect of modern civilization. And Kṛṣṇa wants to impress in the beginning, na jāyate na mriyate vā. (Hindi) Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). (Hindi) This darkness is going on. People are kept in darkness in the name of so-called university education. This is... (Hindi) It will be successful. It may take time. That's all.
Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: They do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll... There are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They... They take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "This body will change." Do they take it seriously? So what is the use of their reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Do they take seriously, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are... Gandhi is... "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is... "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan..." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the... Do you think they do understand this line?
Mr. Myer: Beg your pardon?
Prabhupāda: Do you think they... Do they understand these lines? Now, if your...
Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Human form of body or in the form of this insect. And karmīs, they're trying to improve their... (microphone moving) That is their ignorance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They never get tired of trying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They think by changing the body... (microphone moving) ...demigod's... That is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra. The facility is in that you have to die, you have to take again birth and again begin the same tasting, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. No improvement of taste but improvement of the container. If you go by bullock cart and if you go by motorcar, the transport is the same. But we are thinking, "Now we have improved scientific." That's all. First of all improve that you'll not die. Because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So where is that improvement? That improvement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9).
Correspondence
1975 Correspondence
Letter to Mr. Ashis Roy -- Mayapur 8 April, 1975:
Please accept my greetings. I am in due receipt of your kind letter dated 27th march, 1975 and have noted the contents carefully. The process of opening a center somewhere is that we go there and hold classes for one week on the teachings of Bhagavad-gita and if the people like, then we'll open a center. Actually, the teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu that in every town and village there will be a center of Krishna Consciousness, is essential. People must co-operate. If not, then they will have to suffer. So, I am very glad that you have come forward, being one of the leaders of the cultural community. I am very much enthused by this. Our ideology is standard. It is not anything new, but it is very old. It is not anything concocted. ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano na hanyate hanyamane sarire (BG 2.20), The living entity is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. (Bhagavad-gita 2/20).
1976 Correspondence
Letter to Vikas -- Vrindaban 12 September, 1976:
Please accept my blessings. I am in due receipt of your letter dated 8 September 1976. I am very very sorry to learn that your father has expired. Your father was my class friend and neighborhood friend. During the time of your grandfather your whole family was living at Varanasi Ghose St. Our residence was on the same street and because we went to the same college, Scottish Church College, and were in the same class, we were very intimately connected since 1916, more than 50 years.
Naturally I am very very sorry to learn the death news of your father, my beloved friend. So offer your mother my condolences for the bereavement, but there is nothing to be very sorry for. According to Bhagavad-gita your father has not died, he has changed his body, na hanyate hanyamane sarire (BG 2.20).
Certainly I shall pray to Krishna for his better situation in the next life. Offer my blessings to your children and wife and I hope that this meets you in good health. I will most probably be in Calcutta in December next and I shall be glad to see you at that time.
| Page Title: | BG 02.20 na jayate mriyate va kadacin... cited (Con & Let) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas, Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 19 of Feb, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=102, Let=2 |
| No. of Quotes: | 104 |