BG 02.13 dehino 'smin yatha dehe... cited (Con &amp; Let)

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 11, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter—those who have got Bhagavad-gītā, they will see to it—that "Within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment." That is a fact.

Allen Ginsberg: Do you take rebirth in human form literally?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: As a...

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty?

Allen Ginsberg: I just don't remember having been born before.

Prabhupāda: You don't remember your childhood that does not mean you had no childhood. Do you remember when you were so small boy, what did you did?

Allen Ginsberg: Certain things. Not very small, but there.

Prabhupāda: Or when you were in your womb of your mother. Do you remember?

Allen Ginsberg: No.

Prabhupāda: Then, does it mean that you are not.

Allen Ginsberg: No, it doesn't mean that I am not.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not remember, that is not reason. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Allen Ginsberg: Yeah.

Prabhupāda:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Because I do not remember what I did in my mother's womb, that does not mean that I had no a little body. The body is change, I am there. Therefore, I change this body I will remain. This is common sense business. I am changing my body daily every moment. Your childhood body and this body is not the same. You have changed your body, but that does not mean you have, you are different person.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupāda: So our conclusion, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this body, human body, it is not meant for working very hard for sense gratification. In the modern civilization the ultimate goal, aim, is sense gratification. That's all. Beyond that, they do not know anything more. They do not know what is next life. There is no department of knowledge or science, scientific department, to study what is there after life, after finishing this body. That is a great, I mean to say, department of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehe. Deha means this body. So there is a dehinaḥ who owns the body, dehi. So dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The dehi, the owner of the body, is within, and the body's changing from one form to another. The body of a child, baby, a certain type of form, it changes into another type of form when he's child, another type when boy, another type when he's young, another type, he's old. This is going on, but the owner of the body existing. Similarly, when this body will be completely changed, another body he will accept. So people do not understand this.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So that means they are lacking. It may be as you say, or it may be as I say, but there must be a department of knowledge, what is the... Now, recently one cardiologist, a doctor, he has accepted that there is soul, in Montreal and Toronto. I had some correspondence with him. So he is strongly in belief that there is soul. So that is another point of view, but we accept knowledge from authority. Authority. Just like this statement is given by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the authority by all the ācāryas, in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is studied amongst the scholarly circle and philosophical circle still, all over the world. And this statement is given by Kṛṣṇa:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

So dehāntaram prāpti... Just like the childhood, now, giving up the childhood body, the soul is coming to the boyhood body, from boyhood, youth..., similarly, the soul, giving up this body, he accepts another body. This statement is given by Kṛṣṇa, the greatest authority according to our tradition of knowledge.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupāda: ...body, and the body is considered as the dress, and the person who is dressed, that is within.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Just like this child, this is a dress. Now, after some days this dress will be changed to another dress. After some time another dress, another dress. This body is dress, we should understand, but the person who is putting on the dress... Just like I remember my childhood state, dress and condition, my youthful condition. So many things I remember. So although the body has changed—either you say it has grown or changed—I am the same. Therefore conclusion should be that after giving up this dress, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I must have another body. This is the proof of immortality of the soul and transmigration from one body to another. Now, there are 8,400,000's of different dresses. There are 900,000 dresses within the water, then plants and trees, then insects, then birds. This is evolution of different dresses. The spirit soul is passing through different dresses.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupāda: No. No. No. You cannot... First of all you have to understand what is spiritual value of life. Then you can harmonize. If you do not know what is spiritual life, then what you can harmonize? That is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning, when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru, then He began to explain about the value of life. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13), find out this verse. It's in the Second Chapter.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: No. No. No. You cannot... First of all you have to understand what is spiritual value of life. Then you can harmonize. If you do not know what is spiritual life, then what you can harmonize? That is the teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning, when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru, then He began to explain about the value of life. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13), find out this verse. It's in the Second Chapter. Which verse?

Devotee: Two, thirteen.

Prabhupāda: Second Chapter, thirteenth verse. Find out. Read it.

Scholar: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tattva na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Prabhupāda: Translation.

Scholar: "After using this body, from childhood to youth and to old age and afterwards changes into another body. He who is wise, will not be, will not be disturbed."

Prabhupāda: Now, here is the indication that after death we have to accept another body. Is it not?

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, what kind of body you are going to accept? There are 8,400,000 varieties of bodies. Is it not? Do you know that?

Scholar: No, we don't know that. (indistinct) varieties of bodies.

Prabhupāda: There are forms of body in the water, in the land, so many trees, plants and there are so many insects, reptiles. Then birds, then there are beasts, then there are human being. So there are 8,400,000 forms of body. Here it is indicated that after giving up this body, the soul is going to accept another body. Now the human civilization, is it not duty of the human society to know what kind of body I am going to accept?

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And if (you) should do, simply formality will not help us.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're spoiling themselves, but, not only that, they want to spoil others also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their business. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). (pause) Kṛṣṇa so easily simplifies the matter. They'll not accept it. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir... (BG 2.13). In two lines, he solves the whole biological problems. In two lines. That is knowledge. Minimum words, maximum solution. That is knowledge. And talking nonsense and no meaning. Books, volumes of books, talking nonsense and there is no meaning. Is that knowledge?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Ignorance.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Where is Jawaharlal Nehru, Mahatma Gandhi? They worked so hard for nation. Now he's dead and gone. Now where he is? Neither the nation knows. Whether he has now... Some astrologer told that he has become a dog in Sweden.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has become a dog...?

Prabhupāda: Dog.

Brahmānanda: Nehru.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is possibility. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Change of body. So if... According to laws of nature, you have to change your body. You cannot dictate the laws of nature that: "Give me this body. Give me again American body." That is not possible. When you are dead, you have to accept another body. It may be cat's body, dog's body. It doesn't matter. You cannot dictate nature that: "Give me a body like this."

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The leaders in our society, nowadays, seems that they forget their own present moment, but they're thinking for their children, future.

Prabhupāda: So how they are thinking? He does not know, what is the use of thinking rascally? One can think properly if he knows things. If he does not know, then what is the use of thinking? The madman also thinks. What is the use of such thinking? Now our thinking begins from the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the body's changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly the proprietor of the body will change this body. At the last moment. Death means changing of the body. This is the... Now we can think. When there is proper subject matter, then you can think, how it is, how the changes. You have no proper subject matter, nobody is to guide you. What is the value of your thinking? Like dogs and cats? You do not know how to think. That is possible. How to think, that is possible in human life.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic. On account of that atomic spiritual energy, there is working. This is bare fact. That small atomic spiritual energy is within this body, and therefore the body is working, and therefore the plane is working. Where is the difficulty to understand? Now, this man thinks himself very stout and strong, but why he is stout and strong? On account of that small spiritual spark is there. As soon as the small spiritual spark is gone, stout and strong has no meaning. Immediately all the birds will come. Vultures will come and eat him, eat the body. Immediately.

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the modern science, they say when one becomes old, the memory becomes short and then they tend to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The body has changed. Therefore you have to accept that body has changed. Therefore next conclusion is when this body is lost he gets another body. Change of body. Seasonal changes. That one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, acceptance of another body. Then these modern scientists, they do not know this. They sometimes explain medical science, that blood corpuscles are changing, do they not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are sometimes white, they say, suppose when I am injured, my external something hurts. They say the white blood corpuscles are responsible to protect the body. But when the white blood corpuscles is not enough, then infection normally occurs.

Prabhupāda: Anyway there is change of corpuscles. And with the change of corpuscles there is change of body. That is scientific. Therefore body is changing every moment, so why not after death? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So consciousness is also subject to body's changes, change of body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is, desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientists. But your consciousness is different from theirs. Therefore you could challenge him like that. If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says that I do not know. He is not confident in his science.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that more? It is a simple fact. Just like yesterday, day before yesterday, day before that we saw that stool. We therefore criticize. You are seeing for the last three days the stool, it is not cleansed. But day before yesterday's body, yesterday's body is not this body. And my body has changed, but I remember. Therefore I'm eternal. This is the proof. Eternity means I'm so... my body's changing, but I'm not changing. Just like, I'm old man. I sometimes think, "Oh, I was jumping like this and now I cannot jump." So my body has changed. But I want to jump. But I cannot do it. So that jumping propensity is my eternal propensity. But due to this body, I cannot do it. This is (indistinct).

Karandhara: They would say that, according to their observations, that nature of eternity only lasts one body.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness because, as this body... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As this body's changing in my experience, similarly, there's another change.

Karandhara: Well, actually, they're able to observe this change, but they can't observe that change.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot observe, your rascal eyes are so imperfect, you cannot observe so many things. That does not mean science. Why don't you admit your imperfectional senses? You first of all admit the imperfectional senses. You cannot see. You cannot experience. That, does it mean that is science? So many dogs they cannot understand what is the law of nature. Does it mean that nature does not exist? Why do you think your sense are perfect? First of all, admit that you're the most imperfect.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Dreams mean that is also change of body.

Guest (5): It has nothing to do with the human...?

Prabhupāda: No, dream... Just like you forget about this body. Just you have forgotten what body you had in your last birth, similarly, the same experience daily happening. When you dream, you forget that you have got this body. And again, when you give up your dreaming, you come to this body, you forget in what body you were dreaming. So this is the proof that you are living entity, but the body's changing daily. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But these rascals, they do not understand that there is the dehāntara. They are experiencing daily that there is dehāntara, but they do not have any education about this dehāntara.

Guest (5): (Sanskrit:) Viśvambhara para dṛśyamānaṁ nagarī tulyāṁ na janāntara-gataṁ, paśyam ātmani māyayā bahir ivodbhuḥataṁ yathā nidrayā, yaḥ sākṣād kurute prabodha sameya svātman eva advayam, tasmai śrī guru-mūrtyenam etaṁ śrī taksna mūrtaye.(?)

Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25).

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That... Again I am quoting that Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after this body there is no life." That is their conviction. This is the primary teaching of spiritual life, that we have got next life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntaram. After giving up this body, you have to accept another body. This is the first lesson of spiritual education. But they do not understand the first lesson even. What is their spiritual understanding?

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

So dehāntara-prāptiḥ they do not understand. And it is very easy, that "I am, dehāntaram, I am changing my body. I was a baby, I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. So I have changed so many bodies. But I remember, I was a child. I remember. I was a boy. I remember. Therefore I am existing. My body has changed." Simple truth. Similarly, when this body will be changed, I will exist. Where is the difficulty to understand? But this plain thing they cannot understand. And they are passing as educated, philosopher, scientist. This plain truth, they cannot understand. The brain is so dull. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "As I have changed so many bodies..." I exist. I remember, I had this body. So I may forget. Suppose in my babyhood, what was the feature of my body, I do not know. But there was. My mother knows. He can, she can explain, "My dear child, you were like this, you were like this." So forgetfulness is also not that I did not exist. I may not remember my last birth. That does not mean I did not exist. So forgetfulness is my nature. I cannot remember even what I was doing exactly this time yesterday. If somebody asks me. I can generally speak, that "I was sitting." But actually, what I was doing, I'll have to remember. So the forgetfulness is our nature. Because I have forgotten... Death means forgetting.

Prabhupāda: The spirit soul is living within this body, but the, the body's not the spirit soul. This thing must be understood very clearly. You know, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, the proprietor of the body, is within this body. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe yathā. And the body is changing, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, like that. So when this body will be useless, we will take another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This first education of spiritual life should be understood first. Then one can make progress. Then one can understand what is the constitution of God, what is our relationship with Him. But if, so long we shall remain under the bodily concept of life, this subject matter will remain difficult.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So two things we are experiencing: spirit and matter. So as we are experiencing this material world, so similarly there must be a spiritual world. There must be a spiritual world. Otherwise wherefrom the spirit comes?

David Lawrence: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, this spirit is eternal. That is the first understanding. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This spirit is occupying a material body at the present moment. And the next, when this... Just like I am in this apartment. If I find some inconvenience, I go to another apartment. Or the lease is expired, I have to leave it. Some way or other, I change. Similarly, the... You can change your coat. So these are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Ex..., very nicely exemplified. So we are changing this apartment or dress and accepting another. This is going on. This is the material world. But I, the spirit soul, eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Second Chapter. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you can introduce, study some Bhagavad-gītā among the students, oh, it will, it will be a great service.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is material nature, but there is another, spiritual nature. There everything is permanent. Here everything is non-permanent. Just like my body, your body. It is now getting older. And it will vanquish. This body will be finished. It will never come again back. Never come. This exactly type of this body you'll never get. So we have to accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. It is exemplified just like we change our shirt and coat and take another set, similarly, this gross body, material gross body, five elements, earth, water, air, fire, sky, and then mind, intelligence, ego, subtle body, within that subtle body the soul is there, and after annihilation of this gross body, the subtle body takes to another gross body. The nature is going on like that. And we are wandering in different species of life, in different planets. But our real purpose is God-realization. That we are missing.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Well, there is future life, undoubtedly. It is not the question... Just like you say, you remember your childhood days. You were playing with Indian children in Berampur.

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But that body is no longer there; your childhood body, that is not existing. Now you are existing in a different body. So you were existing, that's a fact. Because you remember. But that body's not existing. Similarly, when this body will not exist, you'll exist. This is natural conclusion. Your, that childhood body is no longer existing. Your youthhood body is no longer existing. That's a fact. And it is also a fact that you had such and such body. Therefore you, as the soul, you are permanent, even changing so many types of bodies. Similarly, the conclusion should be when you give up this body, you'll be in another body.

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Find out this.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Yes?

Pradyumna: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is understanding of the immortality of the soul.

Lord Brockway: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Common, common reasoning.

Lord Brockway: What you've said has impressed me.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Mostly. I have spoken with many educated persons. In Moscow I was talking with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body, everything is finished." But he's a big professor. Generally, even they do believe next life, they do not believe it very seriously. If we actually believe there is next life, then we must be prepared: "What kind of next life I am going to have?"

Mother: Yes, well, father...

Prabhupāda: Because there are eight million, four hundred thousand forms of life. The trees are also life, the cats and dogs, they are also life. And there are higher, intelligent persons in the higher planetary systems. They are also life. The worm in the stool, that is also life. So, calculating all of them, there are 8,400,000 species of life. So if I am going to have next life... Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body to another body. So our concern should be "What kind of body I am going to get next?"

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.

Prabhupāda: So anyone who is accepting this body as the self, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cows and kharaḥ means asses. So this civilization based on the bodily necessities of life is animal civilization. Because we are not this body, we are spirit soul, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: dehino 'smin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The soul is within the body and it is transmigrating from one type of body to another. Even in this life. Just like I was in the baby's body, I was in a child's body, I was in a boy's body. Those bodies are gone. But I remember that I was in such and such bodies. But I am now in a different body. Therefore, although my bodies have changed so many times, I am cognizant, I know that I had such and such body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. To transmigrate from one body to another. This is the authoritative statement of Bhagavad-gītā. There are so many serious students of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: First of all you have to understand that there is life after death.

Guest (2): Why, is it a faith or belief?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not faith, belief. It is a fact. Just like, I have already given you the example. You were a child. That body's no longer existing, but you know that you were a child. Therefore the conclusion is that although the body has changed, but you the soul, the knower, is still there. Therefore, when this body will be changed, you'll exist in another body.

Guest (2): In what form?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. First of all you have to accept this fact, that you have to change this body. As you have already changed so many times. Tathā... Kṛṣṇa first of all says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Antara, another body you have to accept.

Prabhupāda: Now, degree may be, but ultimately, if you are unable to give perfect knowledge, then what is the use of taking knowledge from you?

Guest (2): Yes, I accept that view. But how do you prove that a man...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you take from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. We take from Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who speaks as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We don't take, don't accept knowledge from any rascal. We accept knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. I may be rascal, but because I am receiving knowledge from the perfect, whatever we speak, that is perfect. A child may be innocent he does not know. But he has learned that this article is called spectacle. So when he says, the child says, "Father, this is spectacle." This is perfect knowledge. Similarly, if you hear from the perfect and act accordingly, then you are perfect. Now Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. After death there is another body. So we accept it. It doesn't require any proof of so-called science who's imperfect.

Guest (2): So the question of belief comes first.

Prabhupāda: It is not belief, it is fact.

Guest (2): Yes, but if you say fact, how do you prove?

Prabhupāda: This is proof, Kṛṣṇa says.

Guest (2): It has been said by Kṛṣṇa. Yes, but...,

Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way. Otherwise, what for these books are there? If it is mental speculation what is the use of these books? But as soon as we speak something, we immediately support by quoting from Vedic literature. And that is perfect. And now you have to possess little knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, how Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is giving example side, by side. Yathā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, as there is the soul, there is the soul, asmin dehe, and he's having different types of bodies, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. He's changing body from childhood, boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, youth-hood to another state. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Where is the illogical presentation? This is scientific. For an intelligent man, this is scientific. And if he's still dull-headed, then what can be done? Kṛṣṇa gives example. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As the soul is changing body, from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, like that. Similarly, after finishing this body, it may be invisible to you, but the subtle body is there.

Prabhupāda: That's a good qualification.

Guest (3): No.

Prabhupāda: Why should you be bad qualified? (Bengali) Logic, it is logical. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Where is the illogic. You have passed your childhood body, you have passed your youth-hood body, you are in a different body. Although you are in a different body, you are existing. What better logic you can discover? You cannot discover any better logic than this. Don't accuse that we are illogical, don't accuse. We are logical, completely logical. But we have got brain to understand. Yes. Logic, you can put forward, but one must have the brain to understand it. If one is dull like stone, how he can understand logic? This is very clear logic. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na... (BG 2.13), dhīraḥ, one who is sober, coolheaded, he understands. "Yes, it is all right."

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Well, they do not believe in astrology. Therefore they cannot take any step. They do not believe in next life, so they cannot take any step. And whether it is a fact or not, because they do not believe in next life, so what is the use of taking step? Is it as good as to say that Jawaharlal Nehru has become Indra. If somebody says like that, so they'll have to discard this thing also, and they have to discard that thing also. Because they do not believe in the next life. Simply by presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we can defy all these rascals. Everything is there. Bhagavad-gītā was not presented as it is. That is the defect. The first thing is: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. And they are students of Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he did not understand, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. All these political leaders, they do not understand what is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. What do you think, Bhadra Kṛṣṇa? The dehāntara-prāptiḥ, do they understand?

Prabhupāda: Children, small children, they're just like animals. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category because when he'll get..., he'll get another body in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness? If you make progress. Yes. This is progressive. So that is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

So people cannot understand. That means they are not dhīra, not even, according to Vedic conc..., not even gentlemen. One who cannot understand this simple theory, that, "After this body, as I have changed so many bodies, similarly, I shall change this body also." That's a fact. So dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra, one who has got brain, one who can think, he'll not be puzzled. "Yes, he has... Death means he has changed body." Any gentle, good brain will understand. But people are so foolish now, they cannot understand. They are not educated even to understand this simple thing. This is the position of the world. Even a big professor like Kotofsky. So this is the position of our present human society.

Prabhupāda: "You are talking like a very nice, learned scholar, but no learned man talks like this." That means "You are a fool." (laughter) He's friend, so He's talking very mildly that "You are, you are trying to talk like a learned scholar, but actually no learned scholar speaks like this." That means, "You are a fool."

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Nobody knows. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, from one body to another, we are doing that, every moment, but these rascals, they do not know. I was a child, I was a boy. Where is that body? It is gone. It is a fact. I am in a different body. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Still, they won't believe that there is life after death. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ we are experiencing in this life. But they won't believe that after this deha, there is another deha. That they won't believe, such dull-headed. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: ...kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). If you can quote ślokas, that will be first-class. In India especially. In your country they do not care. Our Bhavānanda Swami, because he could not quote śloka, so he was saying, "Oh, because you have quoted some śloka, it is authorized?" He was saying like that. Western people, they cannot imagine that by quoting a Vedic version it becomes immediately authorized. They cannot imagine.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The asmin dehe, in this body, there is the soul. He is the proprietor. So this life should be, education means one should be advanced in education to inquire about himself, that is brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Suppose if he has said, how can you disbelieve it? How can you disbelieve it? That is... Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "After giving up this body, one has to accept another body." So he has accepted another body but nobody can tell what body he has accepted. If the astrologer says, you have to accept it. You cannot say, "No, he has not accepted dog body." You cannot give any proof. So anyone can say anything. But it is a fact that he has accepted another body.

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That you cannot deny because it is said by Kṛṣṇa, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). That you cannot deny. He has accepted another body. What kind of body he has accepted... If you want to suggest, that is also given in the Bhagavad-gītā,

ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā

madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ

jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā

adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ

(BG 14.18)

He was in tāmasic, so he has gone down to the animal kingdom. That's a fact in the Bhagavad-gītā. He has gone to the animal kingdom. Now he may be tiger or dog. That is a different thing. But he has gone to the animal kingdom. That is the verdict of Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Medical science has given the chance of committing sinful activities. That's all. And the medical man and the man who is committing such sinful activities, they will suffer. This is the advantage of their so-called medical science. They do not know. They have, they have sanctioned this abortion, medical science. Means they have given chance to commit sinful activities. That's all. So so many rascaldom is going on all over the world, and we, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, wants to stop all this nonsense, and save the humanity from going down to the animal kingdom. That is our program. They are... They have become just like animals, and next life they are going to be animals. That law they do not know. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). They do not believe in dehāntara-prāptiḥ. That is their nonsense. And now, what kind of dehāntara, change of body? That also they do not know. That is also going to happen. If you become like cats and dogs, you get cats and dogs life. There is nature's law. But they do not know. They're misguiding simply. And if it is so that I have got now nice, human form of body, and next life I'm going to be a dog, is that advancement of civilization? Simply cheating. Everyone is cheating.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: They can accept that our bodies are changing now, but in the next life they have no experience of this.

Prabhupāda: No, next life, this is experience. You were a child, this is your next life.

Devotee: They can see this body change, but the next life, they cannot see.

Prabhupāda: That means you have no... You cannot see so many things. Does it mean that it does not exist? What is the value of your eyes? That I already explained. You cannot see. Now it is a misty. You cannot see anything. Does it mean your eyes are perfect. How you can see? Your eyes are not perfect. What you cannot see, you have to hear. Suppose in a distant place I cannot see. "What is that light?" I say. But if somebody knows, "Oh, that light is from..., there is a skyscraper building like this, and the light is coming." So I know what I cannot see, I can hear. Therefore what you do not see, next life, you have to hear from authority. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As you have changed so many times in this life, this body, similarly, after death, you will change your body." That is authority. You have to hear. Anything you do not, cannot perceive, you cannot experiment with your senses, you have to hear from another person who knows. That is the process. Why you think your eyes are so perfect that you can see anything? Why you are thinking like rascal? Your eyes are imperfect, and why you are thinking that eyes are perfect? That is rascaldom. I cannot see. You cannot see so many things. Is that a right proposition? I cannot see. What you are? What is your position of eyes? If there is darkness, you cannot see. So does it mean that your seeing is the only evidence? What do you think? Suppose if you are a blind man, what can you see?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Jawaharlal Nehru did not want to give up his Prime Ministership unless he was collapsed. So why he did not live if he is so intelligent? And Kṛṣṇa says, if you have to believe Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "He has to accept another body." So why you should disbelieve that he has accepted a dog's body? Because the acceptance of body is not your business. It is the business of higher nature. Daiva-netreṇa. So if the daiva likes that "You must take this dog's body," how can you refuse it? You cannot refuse.

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So destiny is that we should devote our life for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta-sūtra. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anādi-bahirmukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli gela ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa kaila (CC Madhya 20.117).

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "You are a fool number one." Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. He says, "A paṇḍita does not like this." That means, "You are a mūrkha." Indirectly, He said, "A paṇḍita does not do this. Now you learn." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). He began to speak Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Lilavati: How is it possible to forget?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Lilavati: The subtle body...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you forget. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jayo. You forget. When you dream, you forget that you have got this gross body and you are the father of such and such or mother of such and such.

Dr. Patel: Because this is all due to mind only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mind, mind forgets. The subtle body works. Similarly, we are dying daily. That is also death.

Dr. Patel: Nitya pralaya.

Prabhupāda: Nitya pralaya. But... When... Now, because the body is fit, therefore we come again to enjoy with the body, kṣetra. We come to the kṣetra. Just like you are tilling some land, but when it becomes useless, you cannot till. You have to go elsewhere. Suppose it is overflooded. You cannot work there. Similarly, death means when the mind, intelligence, along with the soul, cannot work in this body, he has to go to some other body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

Dr. Patel: That is when the prarabdhaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that will be decided by the prarabdhaḥ and everything. So in this way, death means this gross body, no more working. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Italian Man (1): Exactly. I wanted to ask you about Kṛṣṇa in the heart. Could you tell us something about His physiognomy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. His physiognomy is sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1). That we can understand. Sac-cid-ānanda. He is eternal, He is full of knowledge and He is blissful. Sac-cid-ānanda. Your body, my body, is just opposite. It is not eternal, it is temporary. And it is full of ignorance. Therefore we require knowledge. (aside:) Little away, yes. So this is full of ignorance, and there are so many miseries. So Kṛṣṇa hasn't got a body like this. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So we can distinguish what is Kṛṣṇa's body and what is our body. (break) ...understand. Try to understand, that what is the nature... That is called spiritual body. So we have got also similar body, but very small, very small. That is covered by this material body. And because in the spiritual body I am person, I have got form, therefore the material elements have taken a form. Just like when your coat is made, it is made according to your body. Because you have got hands, so the coat has got a hand. But the hand of the coat is not real. The real hand is within the coat. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Within. These foolish people, they do not understand. They take, "This is hand. This is hand." He does not know that this hand is artificial, outward. Real hand is within. This is their misconception. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand. These are very important question. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because within the coat the real man is there, therefore the dress has assumed two hands, two legs, one collar, like that. But this is false, like dress. Real... Therefore every living entity has got form. He is not formless.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This human life is especially meant for solving all the problems of live. There are so many problems of life, but the four problems, as indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam... (BG 13.9). People have no knowledge how to stop birth, death, old age and disease. Because every living entity is eternal. That we learn from Bhagavad-gītā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The living entity does not die even after the annihilation of this gross body. This is the first knowledge to understand. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to transmigrate from this body to another body. As I have transmigrated already from my childhood body to boyhood body, boyhood body to youth-hood body, now I am in a body very old, so similarly, as I am existing in spite of changing so many types of body, similarly, after changing this body, I will have to accept another body. This is the fact. But the modern education, they do not know it, neither they believe, even the practical example is there. And who is giving the example? The most authoritative Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And there are so many different varieties of bodies.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We are speaking from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. What Śaṅkarācārya says, what Rāmānujācārya says, that we shall consider there. You try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Bhagavān says in the Bhagavad-gītā that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So dehinaḥ means the possessor of the body, the owner of the body. That is the soul. So that you cannot deny, either you follow Śaṅkarācārya or Rāmānujācārya. There is soul within the body. This is Bhagavad-gītā says. Dehino 'smin, asmin dehe. Just like I was a child, I remember; you remember also. So that body is now gone. But I have got a different body, you have got a different body. But I am existing. So I am dehinaḥ, dehī, and my body is deha. So deha-dehī, there must be distinction. The body is not the owner. I am the owner. Just like I am sitting within this room, I am not this room; similarly, I am sitting within this body, you are sitting within your body. So you are not body. This is call illusion.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: To teach how to get rid of this disease of birth, death and old age. That is guru's business. That is also father's business, that is also guru's business, or the caretaker's business, the government's business. Because this human life is meant for getting out of these clutches of māyā, constantly, repeatedly changing body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), bhūtvā pralīyate. This business should be stopped. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyuṁ gurur na sa syāt. Śāstra says, "One should not be guru if he cannot deliver the disciple from the chain of birth, death, old age and disease."

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Suppose if I do my duty and I may be driven away from my country next life, because there is no guarantee that I will have to take my birth... Just like one astrologer has explained that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Scandinavia. (laughs) There is chance. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You will have to change your body. Now, where it will be changed, how it will be changed, what kind of body you will get—that is not in your hands. That is not in your hands. You cannot say, "Oh, I am Prime Minister. I must get such and such body." That is not going to be accepted. But these foolish rascal people, they do not understand it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). I am acting under certain infection. So I am infecting, say, some venereal disease. So I must suffer for it.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: This is the point. Just like I've already changed. I was a child, so small. Where is that body? That is no longer existing, But still I remember that I had the body. So I changed that body so many times. Similarly, when this body will be useless, I change to another body. This is conclusion. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā.

Yogeśvara: (French)

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

(French) "As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: So, not only the animals. The trees, the plants, the insects, the birds, the bees, the aquatic animal: fish. Everyone has got soul. So anything, which has got life symptom, it is due to soul and so long the soul is there the change of body takes place. A child born, if it is dead, the change of body does not take place. You cannot understand?

Lady (2): No.

Prabhupāda: You have got now a different body, but you had a body like a child, so you cannot understand this? Why is that? Even a child can understand. You were also sometimes a body like this young girl. You do not believe that?

Mādhavānanda: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Could it be said, then, that we are transmigrating even while in this life?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mādhavānanda: From boyhood to youth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is transmigration? Transmigration means the first body you lose; you enter a second body, a third body, fourth. So your childhood body is not existing. Therefore you are in different body.

Mādhavānanda: So that way anyone can understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way of understanding. And Kṛṣṇa says, the authority, that "This is the way." It is not that I have manufactured some philosophy. No. The most powerful authority, He says. So where is the position to deny it? Who can deny it, Kṛṣṇa's statement? If somebody denies, then he is a rascal. That's all. Therefore we say that we have no difficulty to find out a rascal. As soon as one denies this, Kṛṣṇa's statement, he is a rascal. That's it. Anyone who does not accept the transmigration of the soul, he is a rascal, that's all, immediately. So easily understood, and still they will not understand. What is the possible objection?

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa begins the first understanding,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Yes. What is the translation?

Satsvarūpa: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: And now...

Haṁsadūta: Translate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, translate. (German) This is the basic principle of knowledge, that "I am not this body. I am the active principle within this body." Then further knowledge can be understood. This is the beginning of knowledge, that "I am not this..." At the present moment everything... That I was explaining to the professor, that we are accepting this body as self, and self-interest means this bodily interest. Explain this. (German) So the whole trouble is on the platform of this misconception that "I am this body." Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this platform what is knowledge. First of all one must know that "I am not this body." When he understands this basic principle of knowledge, then further knowledge can be advanced. That is explained very nicely step by step in this book Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: ...scientists can change it? Nature. Nature. Nature should be one kind. Why there are two kinds, varieties? (break) ...migration of the soul is clearly understood or not? Explain how the transmigration takes place.

Mādhavānanda: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13).

Prabhupāda: That is śloka, but you explain how it takes place.

Satsvarūpa: We get a body according to our desires, and then the body only lasts so long, and when it wears out, we have to take another body, and that is determined by our actions in this body.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But how you transmigrate?

Haṁsadūta: According to the mental condition at the time of leaving this body.

Prabhupāda: But what is the process?

Satsvarūpa: The subtle body carries the soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the main point. The subtle body carries the soul. Just like in dream, we are carried by the subtle body and placed in different condition. But so long this body is capable of working, I come to this body. My dream is over, and I come back to this body. And death means that this body, being useless, instead of coming to this body, I go to another body. This is transmigration. Just like when you vacate an apartment, then you do not come back in that apartment, but you enter another apartment. Is it clear?

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...understanding of spiritual platform. It is impossible. Therefore, a human being, if he does not come on the spiritual platform, he remains animal. That is the difference. Therefore, Bhagavad-gītā, you will find the first beginning of teaching-dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Find out.

Satsvarūpa:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation -- August 5, 1974, Vrndavana:

"As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul in not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of spiritual life, to distinguish between the soul and the body. One who does not understand that there is soul, there is no spiritual education because he is animal. The animal does not know that there is soul. A dog thinks, "I am this body." So this is the beginning of spiritual education. Therefore Kṛṣṇa instructs first this thing. Everyone is acting on the conception of body as self. She has also gone, your wife?

Bhūrijana: No, she will come back.

Prabhupāda: We... Our work is on that platform, dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara tatha dehāntaram (BG 2.13), dehina, not the deha, dehi. We are not working on deha. Deha means body. And dehi means the owner of the body. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is about the activities of the owner of the body, not the body. But the whole world is going on on acting on the body. That is the difference. Therefore it takes very, very, long time to understand. Those who are thinking, "I am this body..." One who knows that "I am not this body; I am soul, spirit soul," then his spiritual education... They do not know what is spiritual education. What do they mean generally, spiritual education?

Prabhupāda: So Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation. So Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. That... Therefore they introduced this, Śiva-liṅga is worshiped. Śiva-liṅga. So when she was worshiping, a young girl touching the genital, but he was sitting without any disturbance. Therefore he has been described, dhīra. Dhīra. One who is not disturbed by the sex impulse even in the presence of very beautiful young girl, he is called dhīra. So kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. One has to become dhīra. That is wanted. Just like Haridāsa, Ṭhākura. Twice he was induced by very beautiful young girl at dead of night. But he remained... "Yes, I'll satisfy you." He turned... That is called dhīra. There is another place. The dhīra word is used in the Bhagavad-gītā.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

That dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.

Brahmānanda: Even by death he is not disturbed.

Prabhupāda: Not disturbed. So one has to become dhīra. Then he'll be satisfied. Then he'll be satisfied. Then... That is the prayojana-siddhi, to finish this business, material business, and completely prepare for going back to home, back to Godhead

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupāda: Why you shall die? I already discussed that I know that I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man, and now I have got this body, old man's body. It is now going to finish. So I am little anxious. Now, whatever ānanda I was drawing in my living condition, now it is going to be finished. But if we think properly that "I am eternal, so although the body will be finished, I'll not be finished..." This is very natural, that "I was not finished. Because my childhood body was finished, so I was not finished. My boyhood body was not finished; I was not finished. My youthhood was finished, but I was not finished." Similarly, the conclusion should be: "Even though this body will be finished, I'll not be finished." That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dhīra, one who is intelligent, he is not disturbed. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. So dhīra, one who is dhīra, sober, philosopher, he knows that "I am not going to be finished. I shall have to accept another body." Now, whether that body will be ānanda? That is the consideration. I'll get another body, just like I have got this body, after changing so many bodies. Moment after moment, we are changing body. That is the medical science, changing of blood corpuscles. So this body will be changed again. Then I will have to enter the mother's womb and packed up for at least ten months in suffocated condition. This is scientific, all. Then again I'll come out when the body is prepared nicely to come out and exist. So that period of formation of body is not ānanda.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: Can one perceive by their own senses what is that...?

Prabhupāda: No, you have to see through the eyes of the śāstra, but God has given you the instrument by which you can make an experiment. Yes. The same thing, as it is stated... Find out that verse from Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). (break) This is the statement. Now you make experiment. You have got physical laboratory. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Nothing cannot be created. Life also cannot be created. They are already there. But matter is manifest, not manifest. Just like this body is manifest because the life is there. Now, this body will be destroyed, but I will exist. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). I will accept another body, and it will grow. Therefore the matter grows on the basis of life, not that from matter, life comes. This is all rascaldom. So now, by the grace of... We have got scientists. Let them protest. Save the people from this ignorance. Mūḍhā. That is our mission. Give them chance. They have got human body. Let them become Kṛṣṇa conscious and give up all this nonsense thing. Hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpena avasthitiḥ. Mukti, this is mukti. They are mad after something wrong. So they should be saved, and they should give up this so-called materialism and come to service to the Kṛṣṇa, his eternal job. Then that is mukti. He is liberated.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Tripurāri: Fools and rascals who won't take your books. Sometimes we convince them that the philosophy is very nice, and they agree when we use Lord Kṛṣṇa's words, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13), and they say "Yes, I can understand that, but I don't need your book," or "I would never read it." We say, "Well, no. Take it."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) You ask them, "So you want to remain mūḍhā?"

Tripurāri: We say, "No, take it home, and some day you will read it." They think they can find out on their own.

Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. They cannot. Mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a driver necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the first instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ. There is a living entity, driver, within this body. That is the first instruction. Unless one understands this simple thing, he is an ass. There is no knowledge. Because everything is based on something fictitious. This is the first thing one has to learn, the scientists, that there is the driver which is missing. Or the driver is moving this body. And if the driver is educated, then he can move this body to Kṛṣṇa, back to home, back to Godhead. Then he becomes perfect. So we are educating the driver. We are not painting the tin car. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: Practical is that our śāstra says that pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The idea is that one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, unless they know how to make his child immortal. Because soul is immortal but he is entangled in this material body, therefore death takes place. Actually soul is not born, na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this process is going on, transmigration of the soul from one body to another, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The father and mother should be so enlightened and educate the son in such a way that this is the last acceptance of material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he may not accept again this material body. If the father and mother is determined in that way, then they should become parents, otherwise no.

Guest (1): But at the material level, at the level where people eat their food and live their lives, I think...

Prabhupāda: That is also on account of presence of the spirit soul. Actually it... Whatever little you are doing on account of presence of the spirit soul, as soon as the spirit soul is gone then your body and senses are simply lump of matter. So you are working with that lump of matter on account of presence of the spirit soul. Therefore that is more important. To understand what is that spirit soul, how it is working, what is his position, that, that is real knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins in the Bhagavad-gītā, first lesson, about the spirit soul, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So you are studying the deha, that we are discussing just now. One is studying the motor car but he has no knowledge of the driver.

Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got very nice car, Cadillac or, many good cars there are, Rolls-Royce, and he smashes. Then he'll get ordinary car. This human body is smashed... (break) ...hāntara-prāptiḥ, you enter into the dog's body, finished. That is not in your control, that is God's control, nature's control. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it is not under your control or so-called science. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22), these things are there.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Guest (1): We are talking about a protoplasm, something that moves. It may not have the soul, it may not have any...

Prabhupāda: "May not have," that means you have no real knowledge, "may not have." "May not have," that is not knowledge. I say, "May have." Then what is the difference between you and me? "May not have," that is not knowledge. That is simply suggestion, speculation.

Guest (1): Want me to give examples...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to take knowledge from the perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)." You have to take that knowledge. You cannot say you are perfect and you'll say, "May not have." And what is this knowledge, "May not have"? Say definitely and prove it, scientifically. That is knowledge. "Perhaps," "May not," "May be," these are not knowledge.

Prabhupāda: "So you can go to the higher planetary system. Prepare yourself in that way. You can go to the pitṛloka. You can remain within this world. And you can come to Me also." So if I have to prepare myself for the next life, why not go back to home, back to Godhead? Why unnecessarily go to the other planets or to the dogs and cats? Prepare in such a way that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). No more material body. You go back to home, back... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the best. After all, you have to prepare yourself for the next body. So why not prepare yourself for the next body as good as Kṛṣṇa's? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). It is very intelligent movement. Any intelligent man should take it very seriously. If I have to prepare for my next life, why not prepare next life—just we are talking with you, you can go and talk with Kṛṣṇa. You can dance with Kṛṣṇa. You can eat with Kṛṣṇa. You can play with Kṛṣṇa. If there is such possibility, why should we waste our time in different way? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, we are going to die. And tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You have to accept another body, just you have already accepted. Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. We have accepted a different body. I was a child. Now I have got different body. So we are accepting different body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, you accept another body after death. Now what that body should be, everything is there.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Indian man (4): Yes. When we say we start preaching, so first one... somebody has to know himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (4): Then he can come forward for preaching.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you know yourself? Why you are in darkness? Kṛṣṇa says everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. In the beginning He says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). In this body there is the occupier of the body. So if you think yourself that you are this body, that is your wrong. You try to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi." That's the fact. So this human life is meant for that purpose. So why should you not do it? Why should you keep yourself in darkness? That is very risky. If I keep myself in the darkness like cats and dogs, that "I am this body," then my life is very risky. By nature's way we are given this opportunity, human form of life. If we do not understand our position, if we remain in the same category, bodily concept of life, then we are missing the chance. After all, you have to change this body. It is not permanent settlement that you shall remain Indian, you shall remain American. No. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change. Now what kind of body you are going to get, that you have to understand. That is responsibility. So this child, this boy, if he remains in darkness that he will continue this childhood body, and father, mother will take care of him—"I don't require to take any education"—then future life, when he will be young man, he will be not nicely posted for want of education. Then how miserable it will be. Similarly, if we don't take care of this education that "I am not this body, my future body will be different, and if I do not know what kind of different body I'll have to accept..." Suppose we accept some lower grade of body. Then what is my future? So if we don't understand this philosophy as Kṛṣṇa teaches, asmin dehe dehinaḥ, "Within this body there is the occupier, soul," so if you do not understand, that is very risky life. Nature's way must go on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Haṁsadūta: It means, it means apartment, furniture, money, family, and so many things. She says... She means that we don't require all these things.

Prabhupāda: I don't say that. I have never said that.

Haṁsadūta: (German)

Prabhupāda: But only for furniture and apartment, if you forget yourself and act in such a way, then next life you become a dog and lie on the street, then what is the use of your furniture? You are getting next life. First of all, you understand that, that "This is not the end of my life. I am eternal. I am changing my body." So it is described as dress. Now you may be dressed like a royal king. And next dress may be different. "May be" means it must be. And for the examples of the dresses—so many living entities. So you must be cautious that "What kind of dress I am going to have next?" (break) Where is that science? Where is that school, college? If you remain only confident that "I'll go on with this dress perpetually," that is not the fact. You'll have to change your dress. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But we have no knowledge that "What kind of dress I am going to have?" It is a fact. I have already changed dress. I had a child dress. I had a boy's dress. I had a young man dress. Now I have got old man's dress. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "This also, you'll have to change." So why I am not inquiring "What kind of dress I am going to have?" and "How I am changing this dress?" So young man doesn't want to become old man. That is a fact. But if a young man says, "No, no, I don't want old man's dress," will it be accepted? Nature will say, "No, you must accept." Where is the remedy for this? Why these rascals do not understand that "I am fully under the control of nature's law, and I am declaring free. I am becoming philosopher"? He's fully under the control of nature's law. You have read Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmaṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: What is the necessity of renouncing everything? You can't be...

Prabhupāda: Not renouncing, not renouncing. Just like our (?) think of future, that is also for present benefit. Future, future... The best intelligence is that just like one is afraid of suffering in old age, future. So there is. That is not ignorance. That is future life. So karmīs are thinking future life should be very comfortable. They want to go to the heavenly planets. They therefore act very piously, perform yajñas. That is all future. So real problem is that we are going to get another body in future. So what kind of body we shall get? That is intelligence. Body you have to get. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So one should be very intelligent—"What kind of body I am going to get?"

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Trivikrama: Death is the proof that there is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: And the other part is that then there is another body.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Death and then another body.

Prabhupāda: Another body, immediately. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is the tangible proof that there is God. You have to die and accept another body. Just like the proof of government is that you are acting irresponsibly, you must be arrested or be punished. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but they cannot teach their own children. They are becoming hippies. That is the effect of their education.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You have to judge by the fruits.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot teach your own people, and you are going to teach others. "Physician heal thyself." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greets someone.) You have failed to teach your own children, they are disappointed, and you are going to teach others. This is another cheating. It is not the question of... That is another fault—"our," "your." There is no question of "our," "your." Any culture, actually if it is culture, it is meant for the whole human society. Why do you say, "our," "your." We never say, "The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant for Indians," or "for the Europeans." It is meant for everyone. That is our proposition. You have made this "our," "your," and bring another controversy. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is meant both for the Indians and the Westerners. That is the fact. When Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), "You have to change your body," Kṛṣṇa never meant that it is meant for the Indians. It is meant for everyone. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is not meant that Indians only change and they become vanished, European. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is everyone. So try to understand this philosophy.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Well they say that this body is more complicated than any other machine because it can think, feel, and will, whereas other machines don't do that.

Prabhupāda: But the thinking, feeling, the brain is there. If the... That is the particular machine, because the operator is within. That you cannot see. The thinking, feeling is coming from the operator. The soul is there, dehino 'smin yatha dehe (BG 2.13). That these rascals cannot understand, that the thinking, feeling, that is of the operator, not of the machine. Is that clear or not? The operator is within. So the thinking, feeling, as you were asking, that is not of the machine, but of the operator, the soul.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

So unless we understand that "I am not this body. I am different from the body. I am changing bodies. Therefore I will have to change this body and accept another body..." This is the science, beginning of scientific knowledge. Without understanding this fact his advancement of knowledge is simply for eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. There is no advancement. According to Vedic literature, he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

If we cannot understand ourself... It is very simple, that "I have changed my body so many times, so naturally, when this body will be useless in this life, then I will have to accept another body." This is the version of... (Aside:) You find out.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Read it.

Paramahaṁsa: English?

Prabhupāda: English and..., yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Sanskrit first?

Prabhupāda: Uh huh.

Paramahaṁsa:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Translation: "As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: The simple truth. But people have no education. That is the defect of the modern civilization. This is the fact, that you are accepting every moment a different body. So after death, you will have to accept another body. Now, we should know, "What kind of body I am going to accept next?" That is intelligence. That is civilization.

Prabhupāda: At least one class of men must be thoroughly conversant, thoroughly aware of the things as they are. They are called brāhmaṇas. Therefore the society should be divided into four classes. The first-class men, who have got full knowledge of life and the problems of life... That there should be, the first-class men. They may be very few; it doesn't matter. Ideal class. People will learn by their behavior, by their character, by their knowledge. So must be there. Then the next class would be the administrators. They would be advised by the first-class men, and they would administer the state. And the third-class men, they should produce food, enough food for the whole population. And the fourth-class men would assist these three higher class, first class, second class and third class. This is the arrangement, nature's arrangement. There are first-class men; there are second-class men; there are third-class men; there are fourth-class men. But if you produce simply fourth-class men, there cannot be any adjustment.

It will be chaotic society. That is the present position, that there is no first-class men, there is no second-class men. There may be some third-class men, and all fourth-class men. This is the position. Therefore the whole human society is in chaotic condition. The first-class man should understand this. Therefore it is called dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). What is the meaning of dhīra? Just see.

Paramahaṁsa: Sober.

Prabhupāda: Sober, gentle. He understands immediately. Because...

Justin Murphy: But would you... Again... This thing, the attainment of this first class, which, if I understand you correctly, you're saying is very, very necessary for...

Prabhupāda: All are necessary.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...if there is government laws, if you do not know it and you act independently, then you are making your life risky. So this is the case of the government law, and what to speak of God's law, nature's law, how strict it is. You can avoid government's law, but you cannot avoid nature's law. That is not possible. So that is the defect of the modern civilization: they do not know how nature is working, and they are keeping themself in ignorance, and they are suffering, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one body after another. And if he becomes a tree, stand up for five thousand years. And we have to pass through all these stages. He has come to the human form of body. Still he neglects. He continues suffering. They are mad after sense enjoyment; and accepting different material bodies, that means suffering. As soon as you accept a material body, this is suffering. But the suffering of the trees is more suffering. In a forlorn place he stand up for five thousand years and tolerate all the blast, wind, scorching heat, water.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is independent. And still, everyone is thinking independent, "I can do anything I like." Yesterday morning we were talking. You are independent. That is, means, misuse of independence. Just like in a state every citizen is independent but dependent on the state laws. If he forgets that, that "I am not dependent on the state laws," then he is foolish. Similarly, if one does not know that "The nature's law is the God's law, state laws; I cannot violate it," (sic:) then he is sober. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One man is dying. A dhīra knows that he is changing his body; he is not dying. He will get another body. Dhīra, sober. And one who is not sober, he says, "No, life is finished." Or he can imagine he is going to heaven or hell. But a dhīra knows what is going to happen to him. If he was in the material modes of nature, goodness, then he is going to higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti. From śāstra we can understand. If he is in passion, then he will stay in this material world.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: But it's not proved that the way of suffering is to come back in another form which is the theory of transmigration of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Just like you're in this apartment, you can go to another apartment and that apartment may not be exactly like this. It may be better or it may be worse. Similarly we have entered, find out the tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

Devotee:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

"As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: Just like a child gets another body, boyhood. The boy gets another body, youth. The youth gets another body, old man. Similarly when this body is not useful then he gets another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), as we experience dehāntara, different types of body, we are getting one after another, similarly the soul is immortal, he'll get another body. Now here it is not mentioned what kind of body, "another body." The "another body" means, there are 8,400,000 different types of body so he can enter any one of them according to his karma. That will be selected by higher authorities. Just like I do not know here, in India, in New Delhi, the Indian government, they give, I mean to say, house, accommodation to the government servant. So there are different types of houses, for minister one type of house, for secretaries for one type of house, for the clerks one type of house. So according to the position, one type of house is offered. So our, we are acting here according to our resultant action of the activities we get next birth.

Prabhupāda: Their duration of life, material standard of living, very, very comfortable, thousand times better than here. So Kṛṣṇa says that if you like to go to the higher planetary system, you can go there. That it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). If you cultivate yourself for going to the higher planetary system... But first of all we have to understand that we are eternal, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are simply changing body. This is material condition. Either lower grade of bodies or higher grade of bodies, but we have to change. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Just like we are changing our bodies from childhood to babyhood, babyhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, then old age, similarly, when this body will be finished, no more usable, then we'll have to accept another body. But we... The present civilization is so foolish they do not know—even big, big professor; I have talked—that there is life after death. They do not know, although it is very evident. That they have no such knowledge, even common sense.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Previously people believed in the personal idea, but now they have become very envious. They have tried to get rid of it.

Prabhupāda: More demons. Because with the progress of so-called civilization, people are becoming more and more demons, so they cannot understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti. Mūḍhā, he cannot understand. That is the difficulty. More dull-headed, less intelligent persons are coming. Just see. Formerly there was no skyscraper building. Now they are thinking "So long this body is there, let us enjoy." And the..., in the body, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāra... (BG 2.13). But the soul is within the body—there is no care. And that he is going to become a dog next life, but he is satisfied that "This life I have got this skyscraper building." That's all.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā and the education is there, that, immediately Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, there is the soul. This is the beginning of education. But there are many learned scholars; they do not believe in the soul. That is the difficulty. They do not believe. A big, big professor.... I have been in Moscow. Professor Kotovsky, he said, "No, there is no soul. After this finishing of the body, everything is finished."

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1975, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Oh yes, yes. (break) One of the African devotees was explaining to the vice-president that verse, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Brahmānanda: And he was explaining it to him from Bhagavad-gītā. And the vice-president he asked, "Who has given you this knowledge?"

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs)

Brahmānanda: He was so impressed. He accepted immediately, "Yes, you are right." (break)

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, accepting that there is a eternal soul, how is the soul distinguished, then, from the body or from the machine since things like the senses, the mind, the intelligence, desire and hate, which people accept as the symptoms of the soul...

Prabhupāda: That is the proof, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body is finished, no more working, the soul is there, he has accepted another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are educated, sober they are not surprised. Those who are not educated, they are surprised. Therefore this very word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He knows the soul has now left this body. He has accepted another body. That is dhīra. He knows by education. Therefore this very word... Find out.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara

tatha dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: That's Chapter number two, text thirteen. "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: That's it. He does not lament. "No, this body is no more useful." Just like this dress is no more useful. Throw it away. Accept another dress. But dress is old, now it is useless, that does not (mean) you are useless. You accept another dress. That's all.

Prabhupāda: ...which is fact? The dreams and phases of different life while passing through, they are facts or I am fact? What is your answer? We are teaching that, you take care of the fact, not of the dreams. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are changing circumstances. The circumstances are not fact but the whole world is taking care of the circumstances not of the sheer fact. This is the defect of modern civilization. We are very much serious about the passing on circumstances, but we are not serious about the person who is going through the circumstances. This is the whole defect of modern civilization.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: They cannot understand the simple thing that the child has got his future, the boy has got his future, and the young man has got his future, so why not the old man? Such a dull head they have. You see. If the child says, "No, no, I have no future. I shall remain always child," is it possible? And similarly, if you say. "No, no. After old body, everything is finished. Now it is dead." So they are such dull-headed men. The simple truth cannot understand. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). This is the position. The example is so nice and so simple and they cannot understand. What is their brain? Animal brain. Dog race, horse race—they want this, rat race. That's all.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: We are searching after knowledge in so many ways but what is the ultimate knowledge? The ultimate knowledge, Vedānta, means end of knowledge. End of knowledge means to understand the original source of everything. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The human inquisitiveness should be up to that point, what is the origin of everything. Because human life is not a spot. That... The western people are lacking that understanding. We are thinking that this duration of life, say, for fifty to a hundred years, that is all. No. That is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that this body is not everything. We have to accept another body after death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As we are accepting different bodies in our this span of life from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age... So this is the example. And after this old age, after this body is useless, then I accept another body. And again another chapter of life begins. And on my next life, next body I am creating, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya, infection.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So throughout the whole world there is no such institution to study all this fact. They are going just like fourth-class men. They have decided out of their own accord that there is no life after death. Young men say that there is no old age, but nature will not agree. Your next life is old age. That is natural. You cannot say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." You believe or not believe, it will come. Similarly, you believe or not believe, your next life is there. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1975, San Francisco:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want the translation to it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: So this education is required. America is resourceful and they are intelligent. And the movement is already there, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, people are appreciating gradually. So if we get little cooperation from the authorities, we can push on this movement more solidly. So you are the chief of this city. If you give us some facility, then we can be useful to counteract this position.

Prabhupāda: It is simple, but because of their bad education, they cannot understand the simple thing.

Bahulāśva: They want everything complicated.

Prabhupāda: Complicated. The experiment is there. Observation is there. Everything is there. And the eternity is there. Kṛṣṇa begins like reasonable gentleman, not humbug. He says, tathā-dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), very good example, that "As in this, body is changing from this stage to this stage, this stage, this stage, step by step, similarly," tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, "similarly another body." So where is the difficulty to understand? So if this is accepted, then immediately you can accept that the soul which is changing body, he is eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate. Therefore he was never born, never died.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is truth. Without Kṛṣṇa, everything is untruth. Truth is one. Just like zero is zero. And it is added with one, then it is ten. It is truth. So zero is zero always. Hundred million times zero—it is zero. But when there is one, immediately value increases. So without Kṛṣṇa, all this material advancement, they are all zeros. But if you bring Kṛṣṇa, then it... that increases value-ten, hundred, thousand, tens of thousands, like that, million, billions. Because the one is there. So bring Kṛṣṇa, and then everything will be value. Otherwise, all zero. You may be proud of so-called material advancement. It is zero, because it will not save you, because tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) you have to change your body. So you have earned so much millions and billions of money. That's all right. But you have to go empty-handed. The money will remain here. You cannot take that money within the tomb. That is not possible. Then it is zero. You are going empty-handed. You came empty-handed and going empty-handed. You came with zero and you are going with zero. So whatever you have earned, that is zero. But if you have attempted to serve Kṛṣṇa with all these zeros, then you have taken some value. Then Kṛṣṇa will see: "Oh, he has done so much for Me. Let him come." Otherwise zero.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Kartikeya: They are not knowing anything today. They continue to live as it is.

Prabhupāda: Śreyaḥ, preyaḥ, immediate. This is Western civilization. Tathā dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13). (Hindi) In the material world, even in the position of Indra, king of heaven, he has got also so many problems.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (7): Should we go back to the bullock cart age?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Then you will be sukhī. (Hindi) This is the first instruction: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). (Hindi) This is the first instruction. (Hindi) This is the first to be given up in order to understand spiritual knowledge. (Hindi) So how you can expect tranquillity and peacefulness if the society is conducted by go-khara? This is the defect. (Hindi) This is the rule, nature's law. And if it is a fact... It is a fact. You believe or not believe; that is a different thing. (Hindi) Professor Kotovsky... (break) "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." He said like that. And he is a big professor of Indology. (Hindi) ...sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He is a professor. (Hindi) Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: May not be or wrong way, we do not know. But then he did. According to him, he brought and he tried, and he struggled...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we simply study that the Bhagavad-gītā begins with this education, that "You are not this body." Yes. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, dehi. It has nothing to do with this kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This is to be understood. The whole world requires to understand this verse; otherwise they remain go-khara.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. So the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is the teaching of transmigration of the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So that is our first concern, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This body will not exist, and we have to accept another body. Kṛṣṇa says, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, "another body." Now, there are 8,400,000 different types of body. Which body I am going to accept, there is no education. So I am kept in darkness. So what is the value of my education?

Professor: You mean your future?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I do not know what is my future. Then what is my education?

Professor: Yes. Yes. Of course, that is one standpoint, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: No, that is the main standpoint. I am taking education in the university. I do not know what is my future. Then where is the education? I am in darkness.

Professor: Yes. But the main thing is, from the Hindu point of view, you have the...

Prabhupāda: It is not the Hindu point of view. It is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)—that is applicable both for Hindu, Muslim, Christian, everyone. Just like a Hindu child and a Muslim child. Does it mean that Hindu child will not grow to become young man? Only the Muslim will grow? The dehāntara-prāptiḥ—a child becomes a boy—that is equally applicable to the Hindus, to the Muslim, to the Christian, to everyone.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

And human life is meant for stopping this process of transmigration and revive our original consciousness, and go back to home, back to Godhead, and live eternally, blissful life of knowledge. This is the whole scheme of Vedic literature. And Bhagavad-gītā is the synopsis how to attain this life. Therefore, the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā begins to understand the constitutional position of the soul. Then other things. First of all we have to understand what we are, whether I am this body or something else. This is the first understanding. So I was trying to explain this, but that Mr. Chadda, he would bring that "You want to introduce Hindu conception." It is not Hindu conception. It is the scientific conception. I am a child for some time. Then I become a boy for some time. Then I become a young man, some time. Then I become old man. In this way I am changing body. This is not Hindu conception or Vedic conception. This is a fact. But he would not hear that. He would simply say, "You are trying to push Hindu conception of..." And what is this Hindu conception? It is equally applicable to everyone.

Prof. Olivier: Hm, true.

Prabhupāda: Scientific basis. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra...

Find out this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

"As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Prabhupāda: Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace? Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues. And why they have become rascal, rogues? For want of God consciousness. They do not know that it is God's property, falsely thinking, "My property." And today I am thinking, "My property," and next day I become a dog on the same property. Hm? This dog loitering, who can say he was not formerly a Mr. Smuts? Who can say? Maybe he was Smuts; now he is dog. How can you take him? This is nature's process. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). After death you'll have to accept another body. Now who can guarantee that General Smuts did not accept a dog's body? Who can guarantee? Where is the science? You think that he is dead and gone, but Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Now what kind of body he has got? Where is the scientist to ascertain that "Mr., General Smuts has got now this body. He is living here"? Where is the science? You simply see like a fool and rascal, "My father is gone." Where your father gone? Where did he live so long? Why did you not see him? Where is the science? He is simply crying like a child, "My father is gone." Where he has gone? Find him out. And what he was? Why did you not see so long? This is their knowledge.

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Everywhere the same conception: "I am South African." "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am this." "I am that." So all these things are on the bodily concept of life. Nobody says, "No, I am not this body. I am different from body." Nobody says. We are simply preaching that "You are not this body. You are different from this..." That is our unique situation. Perhaps throughout the whole world we are trying to preach that "You are not this body. You are different from body." And we have not manufactured this idea. This is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā, the first teaching is,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

This is the first instruction. Just like in the body of a child the spirit soul is there. Therefore the child is becoming a boy, and the boy is becoming a young man. Young man is becoming old man. Then what is the next? Then the old man must have next body. This is very simple logic. Now... But I am the same. I was also a baby. I was a boy. I remember. But the body is no longer existing. I am existing. I know that I had such and such body. So therefore the conclusion is that after annihilation of this body, I will exist in another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So who knows this science? And there are 8,400,000 forms of body. What kind of or what form of body I am going to get next, where is that science? So we are teaching, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, all these things, not only theoretically, but with scientific knowledge, philosophy, everything. You can see our... We have got fifty books of four hundred, five hundred pages each. We are teaching only about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Indian (4): So after, when he leaves this body and when he takes rebirth again, Swamiji, then he starts off all over again?

Prabhupāda: No, he starts... According to the body he will work. If he enters into the dog's body, he will work as a dog. If he enters in the body of a tree, he will work as the tree: stand up naked without any shame; you cannot protest, your branches will be cut off. So these things are there. What do they know about this science? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to take a different body. He does not say what kind of body. And you can see by practical experience. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. You have to enter one of them. That's all. So what you can do? The nature will force you, "Enter this body." It may be a better body or it may be an abominable body, but you have to enter another body. Where is that education that "I'll have to enter another body after death, and let me prepare what kind of body I shall have"? Where is that education? They are blind.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the activities of the lazy intelligent are jñāna-vijñāna?

Prabhupāda: Jñāna-vijñānam, yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not sleep. Not sleep.

Prabhupāda: No. This is the term used, "lazy," but real term is dhīra. The Sanskrit word is dhīra. And everything... Just like high-court judge, he is dhīra. He is... Before giving judgment, he thinks three days, silently. That is your... That is not laziness. His brain is working how to give nice judgment. That is required. But because we do not understand what is dhīra, we think that "This man is sitting idly and drawing four thousand rupees." Because we know, "Unless one is active like dog, running there, running there, he is not a busy man." And he cannot appreciate the work of the author, the work of the high-court judge. They think they are lazy. Therefore he's using the lazy, but lazy and intelligent. Otherwise he is not lazy; he is dhīra. The word is dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Unless one is dhīra, one cannot understand that there is soul within the body. (break) Kṛṣṇa uses this word, dhīras tatra na muhyati. One has to become dhīra, sober, silent. Then he can understand. Not these busy dogs.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the first education, first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, beginning of Bhagavad-gītā-dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Unless one understands that "There is change of body and I am spirit soul within this body," he remains a cat and dog, and that's all. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we are keeping this civilization—animals. How there can be peace? You cannot make several dogs, bring them together as nation, and they will live peacefully. It is not possible that "You all dogs come here and feel nationally and be peaceful." Will the dogs will be able to do that? Because you are dog, it is not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no such education, that there are dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13) and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mūḍha. Mūḍha, rascal. Duṣkṛtino mūḍha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāh (BG 7.15). He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and make his life perfect, but because he is mūḍha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Up to three o'clock we are taking rest.

Prabhupāda: No.

Dr. Patel: No.

Prabhupāda: Up to four.

Dr. Patel: If I come at four-thirty, you are there.

Prabhupāda: No. At that time, I shall not be able to... You can come at five. Because after waking up I prepare. Then at five I begin. Let us meet. And Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So one has to become dhīra. If one remains adhīra, then he'll never be able to understand the distinction between body and soul.

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He becomes real bhakta, when he realizes that he's soul and not body.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Till then he is not a bhakta.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, in the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, He says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Because everyone is rascal, he is thinking, "I am this body." Arjuna was also thinking, "How shall I kill my other side, my brother, my nephews?" Bodily. Therefore the beginning of spiritual education is to understand that "I am not this body; I am soul." That is the beginning. For so many years people are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but still they are in bodily concept. That is the misfortune.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: He can say: "Here is gold. You dig here. Here is the gold mine." Then you get gold mine. And one who is not expert, simply he has understood that "In this area, there is gold mine," and they are simply fighting; everyone has come to take the gold. But without expert knowledge, they're simply fighting. They do not find gold. That is the position. So expert knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. He therefore begins: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body, the living force, that is the soul. Because that soul is there, it is changing body, different. Try to understand that active principle. And where is that understanding? They simply putting different theses. They do not, neither do they know antithesis or synthesis. So our.... We know the thesis, antithesis and synthesis, that this soul, living entity, is within this body. Now the body is important so long the soul is there. Otherwise, body is a lump of matter. So the soul is suffering. He's seeking after enjoyment, but he's suffering. So therefore.... The most prominent suffering is death. That he cannot avoid. Or he's not.... The so-called materialistic scientists, they have not been able, neither they do know, who is the sufferer or enjoyer. They take this body. The same fiber platform. So actually they are rascals.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Prabhupāda: So they are also not in the fire. I say even if it is in the fire, there is no harm because the living soul is not burned to fire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Adāhyo 'yam. Dāhya. Dāhya means burned. It is not burned. These are wrong conception. Because they have no conception of the soul, they think bhaṣmi bhūtasya dehasya: "When the body is burned, then the soul is also burned." If the soul is burned, then where is the question of tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? How? In the Hindu system they burn the body. So if the soul is also burned, then where is punar janma? You?

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So digging must begin today? The men are there for digging? So Saurabha, you give one site plan immediately. Yes. And order bricks, that's all. Cement and sand we have got. (break) ...any living entity having a material body, he has got soul. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Now preach this movement. (break) Begin also building there, like this.

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

We went to that university. You remember? That Ārya-samājī? He was speaking that "This is Hindu conception. Hindu conception." And what do you mean by Hindu conception? A child grows to become a boy. Is that Hindu conception? It is science. When Kṛṣṇa said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), that's a fact. It is applicable to the Hindus, to the Muslim, to the Christian, everyone. Why do you say it is Hindu conception? So you have to present in that way. They may not think that it is Hindu conception. Because they are all rascals, unless you explain it, that this is meant for everyone, they will misunderstand that Bhāgavata is for the Hindus or for the Indians. It is for everyone. But one must realize. There is no question of Hindu conception or Muslim conception.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religious concept. This is nonsense. You have to... Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13)—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—so does it mean a religion? Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. How you can neglect the fact? Eh? Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara. A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. Where is religion? Why do they take it as religion?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Mahāṁśa: So many constitutions, they have been amended so many times. But the Bhagavad-gītā has not been amended since so many millions of years.

Prabhupāda: It cannot be amended. Just like this rule, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). When the change of body, how you can change the rule? A perfect definition. You cannot change it. (break) ...religion, the so-called religion, it is changed. Formerly there was no Christianity and now Christianity. Now, from Christianity, so many others, so many others. That is not religion.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The best class of men, the Aryans, and they were worshiping a tribal chief! And what was Arjuna? He was also a tribal chief? Arjuna said that "I become Your disciple." So what was he, that he is submitting to a tribal chief? Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). And He's teaching Bhagavad-gītā?

Lokanātha: Which is being read after five thousand years.

Prabhupāda: And still, they cannot assimilate it, so much, so-called civilized men, they cannot understand even the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), that there is transmigration of the soul, these rascals. And who is tribal chief?

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (1): Sir, most of your disciples have their heads shaven.

Prabhupāda: But if you admit this, that after this life you have to accept another body.... Do you accept this? Eh?

Reporter (1): I do, sir.

Prabhupāda: Then that body offered to you, is it in your hand? Suppose the next life you are offered a pig's body. Can you say, "No, no, I don't want it"? That is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (2): Does that mean, Swamiji, that yours is a cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.

Hṛdayānanda: A cultural and educational movement rather than a personal cult.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is cultural movement, educational movement. It is not so-called religious movement. Religious movement is sentiment. Generally religion is taken as a kind of faith, but it is not a kind of faith. In.... I think, in South America that Indian man was asking that "It is the Hindu faith?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in South Africa. He was asking, "Is this Hindu faith?" "This cult or that cult."

Prabhupāda: So just see. He was Hindu gentleman, belonging to the Arya-samaj. So three times he said, "Is it Hindu faith?" And what do you mean by Hindu faith? When Kṛṣṇa said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), is it meant for the Hindus that a child becomes..., a baby becomes a child, a child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, a young man becomes an old man, and the old man dies, changes this body? Is it meant for the Hindus? The Mohammedans do not become old men or young men?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christians don't become old men?

Prabhupāda: So such fools there are that Bhagavad-gītā is speaking, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13)—"It is meant for the Hindus." Just see. Such fools there are. And Kṛṣṇa said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If you have got enough food grains, then all the living entities are satisfied." Is it meant for the Hindus? So this is going on. "This is Hindu scripture." What do you mean by Hindu scripture? So they are interpreting in their own way. So Kṛṣṇa is not for the Hindus or the Musselmans or Christians. He is God. He is everyone. He is for everyone.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: In the water, life there is; in the air, in.... That is another thing. But life is different from the water. That is our proposal. (break) They are attracted by these varieties of material things, and when time comes he's put into death. Everything is moved from his sight, aside, and he accepts a body of a dog. (break) To accept by compulsion a type of body according to his activities, that he does not.... Now, that big, big minister, Pandit Jawaharlal, he spent so much time and energy for creating this. Now, if after death he has become a dog, then where is the benefit? You cannot say that he has not become a dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). One has to accept another body, and what kind of body one has to accept, who will say? The.... His work, what he has done, that will take.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, it is kuṇape tri-dhātuke, kuṇape.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin. In this hodgepodge combination of matter there is the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). On account of this, this body is changing. Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara prāptiḥ. Very simple thing, but they're so rascal, they will not understand. The whole world is like that. (break) He is speaking Himself. Let us accept it. Every knowledge is there. I am not scientist, but all the scientists come. Our Svarūpa Dāmodara, Doctor, Ph.D., he was defeated three times, four times daily, and then he is now writing book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. You see? And I was not a scientist. He was Ph.D., but I talked on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's assets. That's all. That is my knowledge. (break) ...this knowledge, very practical knowledge, and if we don't accept it, then what is? It is simply rascaldom.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The soul is already there. Soul is already.... Just like this room was already there. Now I have entered. And again I give up this room; I go to another room. Like that. Not that this room becomes another room, room. If I have to go to another room, I have to give up this room. I have to go another room. So I am the same. I am changing different rooms, different body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Find out this verse.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youthhood to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Purport.

Brian Singer: Who made the decision for Arjuna to fight or not to fight?

Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement.

Room Conversation -- April 30, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Read it carefully. As the small soul has entered.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). This is also a small universe. The same elements are working, but the soul is the prime factor. Similarly, this gigantic body. Athavā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena.... Viṣṭabhya aham idaṁ kṛtsnam. "The kṛtsnam, the total material energy, millions of universes like that, that is being maintained by Me because I have entered in it in My fragmental portion." Same principle. As I, the individual soul, I am.... because I have entered this body, the body is working so nicely. It looks beautiful; it looks fresh. It is machine. The machine is working very nicely so long the pilot or the driver is there. Similarly, where is the difficulty to understand this universal affair? If we accept the same principle, that "I am a small fragmental portion of Kṛṣṇa. I have entered this body. This body is working so nicely.... Similarly, because Kṛṣṇa has entered

Room Conversation -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Our point is that we are going to live in the future. So if, becoming modern, we forget our future, then what is the use of becoming modernized? Better remain primitive. The business is that in future also we shall exist. If we do not know how we shall exist—either I shall exist as a cat, as a dog, or a tree, or a demigod, or as associate of Kṛṣṇa.... If I do not know.... On account of being modernized, if I remain in darkness about my future, so it is better to remain primitive. What is the use of becoming modernized and forget myself and my future? Becoming modernized, if I become dog in future, so what is the use of modernized? The real business is that I shall take care of my future. Especially in the human form of body. Cats and dogs, they do not know about future. If I know there is future, I have a future.... This is also said by Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "In future." Not this body, another body. So is it not my first business, to prepare what is my future body?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: And what is, the scientists will not believe? We say, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming, similarly you have to change body." What scientist has to challenge this? But they are obstinate dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ you have to accept. Can the scientist say, "No, no, no, the child is not going to be a young man or boy"? Can he say like that? Then why they challenge unnecessarily? They are changing the body. Can the scientists stop it? But if they are unreasonable dogs, then what can be done? What argument will reach them? A dog cannot understand.

Rādhāvallabha: Just stick.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, they will not understand even with stick. You see? They are less than dog. Bhagavad-gītā days, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), very simple argument, that "As the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and middle-aged is becoming old man, similarly, you are changing body." So where is the difficulty to understand? But they are so obstinate rascal, they will not believe. As soon as the child is dead, does he become boy?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal. Up till now, nobody was able to explain—simply vague. How we can accept these vague explanation as scientist? And daily changing, every year new theories. And I have to accept you scientist? Kṛṣṇa said tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) five thousand years ago. It was known very well, and it is going on. That is science. You cannot give any solution, you are changing your ideas and theories every year, and we have to accept you as scientist? (break) ...speaking something, and I have to accept him as scientist? Madman, crazy fellow, saying something today, saying something other next day.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: "But that's just an ideal, the Ten Commandments. You're not expected to follow."

Prabhupāda: No, that is your explanation. That is your concoction. (break) ...take it. As soon as you disobey Ten Commandments, you are not a Christian. You are heathen. (break) And the thing is that religious faith should not be discussed on philosophy because everyone has got some, his own concocted faith. That is not philosophy. Faith is different. "I believe," "You believe," "I do not believe"—that is not philosophy. (break) ...philosophy in Bhagavad-gītā that asmin dehe.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13), there is soul. This is philosophy. Religion without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental concoction. So both of them should be combined. Then it is perfect.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I told a friend, he's been a friend over the years, I tried to bring it home to him that we are not our body, and he said, "Oh, yes, and I cannot get away from the physical idea that I am this," and I said, "Your father is very sick now, and he may die at any time," he's very fond of his father, and when the father is dead and lying there on the floor and after few days he begins to smell, I asked him, "Is that still your father?" He had no answer for that.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer. They simply falsely argue. Therefore less intelligent. Mūḍha. If he was intelligent, then he would immediately accept the Kṛṣṇa's teachings, beginning with dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). On account of the soul, the body is changing, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The body is sometimes child, sometimes boy, sometimes young man, sometimes old man, sometimes diseased, sometimes healthy. All these terms are there on account of presence of the soul. If the soul is not there, then it is simply a lump of matter, and it is going to decompose into matter again, and then it will smell, either you have to throw it for being eaten by the vultures or you can bury it under some ceremony or you can burn it. Three.... What is called? Pariṇamanam. Transformations. Either as stool or as ash or as earth. Those who are burying, the bodies gradually becomes earth; those who are throwing, the vultures eat, the jackals, dogs eat and it turns into stool; and those who are burning, it turns into ashes. Three transformations. This beautiful body.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So your body is changing like dress, but you are the same. So your... In previous... Just like now we are elderly gentleman, but we were a child. That's a fact. At that time the body was different. You are a young man; the body was different. And again you'll become old man like me, your body will be different. So in this life also we are experiencing going through different types of body. Similarly, after giving up this body, I'll have another body. Where is the difficulty to understand? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

So dehāntara-prāptir, to accept another body, that is inevitable. Now, what kind of body you'll accept... You'll not accept. You'll be forced to accept, according to your work, karmaṇā daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement. After death, after giving up this body... Generally, at the time of death, your mental condition will carry you to a similar body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the general, but it is under superior arrangement. So we are changing this body continually, cycle of birth and death. That is material world. Therefore it is said that according to the body, the standard of happiness, distress, is there. So that will come automatically by nature's law. Therefore there is no need of endeavoring improving or subduing this kind of bodily comforts. That you cannot change; it is all destiny. You try for self-realization. What you are? Why you are in this body? Why you are suffering? These questions should be discussed. That is human life.

Dr. Wolfe: They try to do this scientifically again.

Prabhupāda: Let them do. Scientifically, there is life after death. That we repeatedly say, that my child's body is dead, it's gone, vanished. I have got a different body. So after death there is life. This is practical. So this Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is authoritative statement of God, and practically we see that we get one body after another, but I continue. So where is the objection? So there is life after death. So-called death means annihilation of the body. So if we can stick to that life, that there is no more death, then that is to be sought after. That is intelligence. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa and you become fit to go back to Him, then no more death.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Yes, she lives here. She has worked in a clinic for many years, and exclusively with dying people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: And then you wrote that one day the people will..., the taxes will become so great that the people will revolt, refuse to pay, and then the government will be finished. There will be chaos. You're giving all these warnings, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You've also warned them about taking the oil from the earth.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization. What is the use of this civilization, civilization that for artificial necessities of life you waste your whole duration of life and next life you become a cat or dog? Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers. Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room.... There is possibility." Kṛṣṇa..., tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you'll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don't believe in the next life.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is black and we worship Him. (laughter) You have seen our Deity? Yes. Kṛṣṇa is from your community. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of black and white. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is above the skin—the soul which is there. Either he's black or white or yellow, it doesn't matter. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). This is the first education, that do not take the body, but the living force within the body. That is important; we have to understand that. We are talking from that platform. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult, because people are very much absorbed with bodily concept of life. But our philosophy begins from that platform where there is no more bodily concept of life. Therefore it is little difficult. (pause) So any question also?

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: I think our educational program at our university is very important to people if it helps them think and understand and begin to feel. We don't educate the heart, and I think there's something wrong about that. I think that the heart needs an education. There's some feelings one has to understand and some responses. We're inadequate in this respect, I...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Find out this verse.

Hari-śauri:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

"As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

George Gullen: These are difficult words to understand, but I appreciate them.

Prabhupāda: Therefore dhīra.... Dhīras tatra, dhīra means sober gentleman. Dhīra. Dhīra means gentleman. So if one does not understand this simple truth, he's not even a gentleman, what to speak of learned scholar. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. That means every gentleman must have this education. And what is the use? What is the meaning of dhīra?

Hari-śauri: Sober.

Satsvarūpa: Learned.

Prabhupāda: That is gentleman. So one who does not understand this philosophy of life is not fit to be addressed as gentleman. It is commonsense knowledge.

Prabhupāda: The problem is that we are suffering in this material world life after life, and our aim is how to again go back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are showing some mysticism. Stop death. Then I shall see your mysticism. What is this nonsense mysticism? Can you stop death? Is it possible? Then what is the meaning of this mysticism? All bogus. My problem is that I am accepting one body and suffering, because as soon as I get this material body, I have to suffer. Then I am creating another body. I die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And again begins another chapter. In this way, from this grass life to the demigods, I am simply changing body and dying and taking birth. This is my problem. So what mysticism will do? But that they do not know, what is the problem. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is your problem.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: We take once type of body and struggle and again die, and again accept another, another type of body. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. This is going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Find out this verse.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

This is the beginning of spiritual education. One has to learn it, that "I'm not this body; I'm within this body, and I'm transmigrating from one body to another." That means repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is the main problem of life. So human life means to make a solution of these problems, not to be entangled with these problems again and again.

Prabhupāda: There was a great advertisement that the Himalayan mountain is going to deliver a child. So people gathered on, to see, "Oh, such a big mountain. The child must be a very big child." So they went to see there, and they saw one rat is coming from the hole of.... A rat is coming. They expected another Himalayan mountain, and they saw from the holes, one rat is coming. This is going on. And they are satisfied. "Now the Himalaya has delivered the child." One rat. (laughs) This attempt is like Himalayas begetting a child. If some elephant would have come, it would have saved the..., not even elephant, one rat. And in English, another is, "Much ado about nothing."

Hari-śauri: Shakespeare.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The result is nothing. What is the meaning of "ado"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Endeavor.

Prabhupāda: Endeavor. Yes. So these things are like that. Not sober. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). They are not sober. Adhīra. Therefore they meet with so many accidents. You also. As soon as we're in the car, he wants to drive at a hundred miles speed.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal, what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say "You are rascal, you must go to your room." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mūḍha. It is the law of nature. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The example is given that this boy will change his body. Dehāntara-prāptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand? Yes, this body will not remain. While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses. That's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree to worship. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses: "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, yoke yadi lage phala kena dag botai(?). "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of... Yoke yadi lage phala kena dag bhajai.(?) Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses; we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the... You are... Your life also completely under the laws of nature. So there is no discussion, no understanding, no knowledge about this. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change our body. What kind of body we are going to get, nobody knows. This life is everything. This body is everything. Very risky. They do not inquire even wherefrom this body has come. They are also coming. They are also living. They are also eating. The trees, they are also eating water.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just see. I'm immediately going to become a dog, and I have to wait for millions of years. Just see. This is their nonsense. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), as soon as you give up this body, you get another body. The greatest scientist, Kṛṣṇa, says. And he says "Wait for millions of years." So shall I take Kṛṣṇa or the scientist? Kṛṣṇa says "Immediately," and you haven't got to wait for millions of years for a boy to become a young man. It takes few years. Does it require millions of years for a boy to grow as young man? By nature's way, it is immediately, a few years. Every moment, the body is changing. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Anyway, fight with this ignorance. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means fighting with ignorance. That's it. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). What is the next verse? You read it? That is very interesting chapter. You read the purport.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, what happens to the soul when you have an abortion, though? Where does it go?

Prabhupāda: Goes to another body. Dehāntara. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). If you do not allow him to this body, he goes to another body. Just like if you drive me from this apartment, I must go somewhere. I must find out another apartment. It is not that I am finished. You force me to go out of this apartment. So I go to a friend's house or anywhere, I must go.

Vṛṣākapi: This gentleman is from the embassy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The ambassador couldn't come personally but sent his representative.

Vipina: The minister of political affairs at the embassy, Venkateshvara.

Prabhupāda: Venkateshvara? So by evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. It is a chance to understand the value of life, to understand God and our relationship with God, and if we are missing this opportunity, that's a great loss. Then you again become in another form of life. That is sure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body, and if we are not prepared, what kind of body we are going to get next life, then we remain like animals. The animal does not know. And human life, if you are missing this important point, that "I am going to change this body, and what kind of body I'm going to get?" if I do not know, then what is the difference between me and the animal?

Bill Sauer: Is that immediately after one dies you transfer to another body, or later?

Prabhupāda: Yes, body is changing every moment. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Every body... Just like a child is changing his body to boyhood, boy is changing his body to youthhood, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The young man is becoming old man. Similarly, when the body is no more endurable, then you get another body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This body is being destroyed, we are not destroyed.

Eugene Thoreau: May I ask a question? Is it possible to aim at any form of personal existence after death?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you are personally existing, you are old man. When you were a child, you were person. When you were young man, you were a person. Now you are old man, you are a person. We are personalities continuing although the body is changing. You are not missing your personality. So therefore personality continues even when you change this body. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Second Chapter. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13).

Hari-śauri: Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20)?

Prabhupāda: No, there is another verse where Kṛṣṇa says, "My dear Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are assembled here..."

Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that verse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ

na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ

na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ

sarve vayam ataḥ param

Translation, "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings, nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Eugene Thoreau: You mentioned understanding, you mentioned lawyers arguing and the judge make the decision and their higher authority resolves the question. Can you suggest how people can go beyond that to spiritual understanding—not just appealing for judgment over a controversy about facts. What suggestions or comments do you have about achieving spiritual understanding?

Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.

Guest (2): The living entity changed bodies.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is common sense. If they cannot understand this commonsense affair, then how they are educated?

Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: There was one thing I was wondering a little bit. Is the possibility of..., is it possible of making some experiments which would tend to indicate that life is not material? And this might be appealing to some of the people with scientific education, because they are used to such things, experiments.

Prabhupāda: No, experiment is there. Just like in... Hindus, we burn the body into ashes. How the soul is transmigrating? This is scientific experiment. The Bhagavad-gītā says nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Everyone is seeing the body is burned into ashes, but still, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He's going to another body. How it is going? So the soul is not burned.

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Yes. You have given him a very unique interview, I think, with your analogies.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is there. Why they think Eastern, Western, Jewish, and...? We are talking of the human being. That is the misunderstanding going on, that this is Hindu religion, Eastern religion. Kṛṣṇa begins from the word dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Find out this. The rascals are taking Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Dehe, the body, and the inner force of the body, He's beginning His teaching. Where is the question of Hindu, Muslim, Christian and Jewish? Still they are misunderstanding, "This is Hindu."

Conversation After Interview with Religious Editor, Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: It is very hard for them to understand.

Prabhupāda: This is science. Read that.

Hari-śauri:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, boyhood, childhood, youthhood, old age, is it for the Hindus? The Christians do not become child, do not become youth? Ayi. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Human civilization begins when one understands that he is not this body. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Perhaps you have heard this word...

Interviewer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...the Vedic mantras. "I am not this body. I am spirit soul." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body there is the soul. So on account of presence of the soul we are transmigrating to different bodies. Just like from childhood to boyhood. The body of a boy is different from the body of a child, but the same soul who was within the body of a child has now come within the body of a boy. And the same soul again, he will go in the body of a young man. And the same soul again will go in the body of an old man. And the same soul, when the body of old man is finished, then he enters another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. A part of it we can see in this life. I was in the child's body, I was in the boy's body, I was in the young man's body, now I am an old man's body. Similarly, as my child's body being finished, I have entered into the boy's body; my boy's body being finished, I have entered young man's body. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6).

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Aprāpya māṁ nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. "The teachings that I am giving, if one is not faithful to accept it, the result will be aprāpya mām, he'll never get Me, and he'll remain in the cycle of birth and death." They do not know it, what is cycle of birth and death, how one can get out of it. Going on. Just like the flies with great force falls in the fire. They are very busy. What is their busy-ness? Falling in the fire. So this is going on. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just to save the people who go down by the force, enforced by the laws of material nature in the cycle of birth and death. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "You have to accept another body." But suppose you have got now Indian body; next birth if you get a dog's body, then what is your success? But nature will work. You do not know what is the nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Neither you can check nature's law, so what is the value of your so-called activities, jumping? There's no value.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: One last question then. What you are saying, the thrust of your movement is that true religion is not something that you just believe, it is what you are.

Prabhupāda: You believe or not believe. A fool man's, fool's belief is different from a learned man's understanding. So if he says that "I believe in it," nature's law is different. Nature will not care whether you believe or not believe. It will work. Just like if you have infected some disease, so you are getting fever. Now if I say "My dear Mr. such and such, now you infected smallpox. Therefore symptoms are there." And if you say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." So will you be protected from the laws of nature? So this is rascal's proposal, "I believe," "I don't believe." You believe or not believe, who cares for you? If you have infected, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Find out. After death you are going to get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So how you can know what kind of body you are going to get? First of all generally they don't believe transmigration. So they believe or not believe, the process is going on. So this is going on in the modern world, "I don't believe it." You believe or not believe, you cannot check the nature's law. But their dull brain cannot understand it that nature's law is very, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), but thinking that they'll conquer over nature. That is their proposal, is not, Bali-mardana? They think that they'll conquer over the laws of nature.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: If you actually want to be not to be controlled by the laws of material nature, that you can do. That is possible. And that is possible simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. So we are presenting this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a manufactured thing. We are quoting from Bhagavad-gītā the same thing. We are not presenting something manufactured. There is no need, because things in perfection is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no need of manufacturing by fools and rascals. There is no need. Everything is there in perfection. Simply we have to accept it and apply it in practical life. Then our life will be successful. Simply we have to understand it. Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is... Then jānāti tattvataḥ, anyone who is able to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: (BG 4.9) "Such person, after giving up this body, he does not accept another material body." At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that "We are free. We can do whatever we like." This is very dangerous civilization—no knowledge of the spiritual life, no knowledge how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, no knowledge what is the future, no knowledge what is the goal of life. Simply like cats and dogs, you dance, eat, drink, be merry and die, that's all. This is not good life.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Every one of us, we are attached to the body, and on account of being attached to the body the material activities are going on. These motorcars are running, karmīs are going here and there, what is the purpose? To maintain the road? Divasa śarīra-sāje. Miche nida-baśe gelo re rāti divasa śarīra-sāje. The body is given rest at night to revive, and daytime the activities for the matter of maintaining the body. But despite my all endeavor to maintain this body, it will not stay. It will give up my company and I'll have to accept another. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Bali Mahārāja says "What is the use of such endeavor?" Therefore big, big saintly persons, they do not care for the body. Lie down anywhere. But they are very serious about spiritual advancement. And people in general, they are interested in maintaining the body.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Nowadays nobody takes responsibility of family. That is another thing. But marriage means to take so many responsibilities. That is another condition of material life. Then home, people are sacrificing so much for home, for country, for nation. That also will be finished with the end of this body. When the body's ended, you are no more Iranian or American or Indian. You do not know what you are. Even if you have got attachment for the country, you can become a tree in that country. If you become animal, you are slaughtered in that country. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), even though you have got attachment, on account of changing the body your situation is changing. So in this way Bali Mahārāja analyzes the whole thing, that "What is the use of all this?" Is he right or wrong, his analysis?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Very intelligent, perfect.

Prabhupāda: So when Kṛṣṇa advises, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). It is the right advice, but we cannot take it. Kṛṣṇa is the right friend, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29), but we don't accept His friendship.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Dharma is for the envious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so-called dharmas. Just like we have created so many dharma, Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma. They are so-called. They are not dharmas. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means what is given to you by the Supreme Lord, that is dharma. Otherwise, if you manufacture some ritualistic ceremonies, some formulas, some dogmas, that is cheating. That is not religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is first-class religion. What is that? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Wherefrom you learn how to love God. If you learn, "I believe this," "I believe that," "This is our ritualistic ceremony," these are all cheating. As people are cheating one another in different ways, this is another cheating. That's all. They will say, "We believe in this way," "We believe in that way." So what is that, you believe in that way? What is the fact? If you believe something wrong, is that to be taken as religion? We say tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Other religious sect, they say this is Hindu belief. It is not question of Hindu belief. It is the fact. Does it mean that a Muhammadan or Christian child does not become a boy? When Kṛṣṇa says dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) just like the child is becoming boy, boy is becoming young. This is science. And why do you say it is Hindu belief? Does it mean that a Muslim or Christian child does not become a boy? What do you mean by Hindu belief? But they say it like that, Hindu belief. Is that correct if somebody says it is Hindu belief? No, it is fact, it is science. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Similarly, you have to change this body, another body. The example is given. Why do you think that because it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā it is Hindu belief? They say like that: "This is Hindu belief." What do you think? Is that Hindu belief?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

The dog has ear, big ear, bigger than me. But he cannot hear what is Kṛṣṇa saying. That is not possible. But this life I've got this ear, I can hear. If I don't take chance, then how much foolish I am. Next life, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I'll get next life, next birth. Now it is not necessarily that I'll get the next life also same ear. No. The ear may be different. The eyes may be different. The eyes are there, ears are there, nose is, but it is different. So long we have got these eyes, these ears, this nose, utilize it properly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja...(?) Every birth you'll get a father, mother. Because without father, mother, there is no question of birth. But not in every birth you'll get Kṛṣṇa and guru. That is in this birth. Birth you can have. But to have Kṛṣṇa and guru, that is this birth. So utilize it properly.

Harikeśa: "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. This body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change. The science is there, but nobody is caring to know it. And still, they are proud of their education. And Kṛṣṇa condemns: nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are keeping themselves on the bodily concept of life and posing themselves as pandit. A person identifying himself with the body, he's go-kharaḥ, and he's posing himself as paṇḍita. This is the position.

Prabhupāda: So enjoy life. "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. "Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee, and prepare nice preparation and enjoy." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet, yāvāj jivet sukhaṁ jivet. So long you live, enjoy. "I'll become a debtor. Then I'll act sinfully." Bhasmi bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar agamano bhavet. Your body will be burnt and everything finished. This philosophy is going on. But Kṛṣṇa says: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the body is burned, don't think that you are burned. You are living. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who is caring for that? Nobody cares. And still they are passing as paṇḍita, philosopher, scientist. This is misfortune of the present civilization. A person who is equal to go-kharaḥ, he is the teacher, he is the philosopher, he is leader.

Prabhupāda: People are running like anything in the street, bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking that this civilization, having nice roads and streets and number of cars and running here and there, this is... Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They do not know what is the goal of life. And if you ask the goal of life, "What is goal of life?" "After death everything is finished," that's all. "Let me enjoy." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet.(?) Beg borrow, steal, bring money and enjoy. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). If by his activities he's going to be a lower animal next life, then what is the value of his so much business and activities? Therefore they do not believe in next life. Close the eyes. Never mind, where is the danger in front.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gītā informs, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, Kṛṣṇa is giving evidence. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This dehāntara-prāptiḥ, I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So why they do not believe dehāntara-prāptiḥ? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehāntara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still. But where is that body? It is different body. This is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. I am the same man who was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and now I am differently situated. The body has changed. This is the proof, Kṛṣṇa is giving you this proof. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So if we accept authority of Kṛṣṇa and His statement, so reasonable and so scientific, then our life is successful. And if we don't care for them, let us do our business. But nature will not excuse. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27).

Prabhupāda: Nobody is interested to retire from family life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The difficulty is they do not know their own self-interest. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says "My self-interest first." But he does not know what is his self-interest. Na te viduḥ. Actually that is the..., because he does not know self. (Hindi) Beginning of education in Bhagavad-gītā, self-interest. Kṛṣṇa giving first lesson: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but your action is not like learned." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The subject matter, he was lamenting that "If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widows and will become prostitute, and varṇa-saṅkara." "You are talking just like learned man, but on the basis of bodily relationship." So this is not the business of paṇḍita. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So this is the position. People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night. He does not know dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). His body will change and the soul will have to accept another body. He does not know what kind of body he's going to accept. (aside:) Ask him not to talk. This is ignorance.

Prabhupāda: No, no, simply to know Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena ya... So you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). So without bhakti there is no possibility to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you'll become free from this process of accepting material body.

Indian Doctor: Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66).

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is only business, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and avoid this botheration of repeating body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is there. If you want to stop dehāntara-prāptiḥ, then you have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no other way. But if you think that it is very pleasure to enter within the womb of mother and accept one body, and again come out and again work, and again die, and again enter. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). If you want this business, that is your choice. You can do it. But if you want to stop it, then this is the only way. Therefore śāstra says na sādhu manye. It is not good. Nūnam, read that verse.

Indian Doctor: There is research in parapsychology in certain municipality(?) of India, they have proved that (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That they may do, a very great service, but we know it without going to the psychological process. We believe Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), bas, finished. What is the use of going to the psychology and...?

Indian Doctor: But those...

Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are fools, they may waste their time in that way. (laughter) But we are not so fool.

Prabhupāda: That they may do, a very great service, but we know it without going to the psychological process. We believe Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), bas, finished. What is the use of going to the psychology and...?

Indian Doctor: But those...

Prabhupāda: No, no, those who are fools, they may waste their time in that way. (laughter) But we are not so fool.

Indian Doctor: They are fools to not to think that they'll become...

Prabhupāda: They are rascal fools because they do not take Kṛṣṇa's word. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Why should we bother? Our mission is simply to propagate Kṛṣṇa's instructions. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We don't manufacture anything. So-called yoga, so-called meditation, so-called this and... We don't care for all this nonsense. Our only business is how to implement the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, the rascals may understand and be happy. That is our mission. We haven't got to manufacture anything. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa and try to deliver it to anyone you meet. This is our... We haven't got to manufacture anything. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Take it, without interpretation. Don't spoil the whole thing. Interpretation means spoiling. Whole thing spoiled.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam (Bg 18.68). What is that paramaṁ guhyam? Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all nonsense. Surrender to Me." This is paramaṁ guhyam. And they are simply manufacturing nonsense. So the time is very bad, but nature's law is very strict. We may defy it, "There is no God, there is no next birth, there is no nothing." We may say like that, but when death will come, you cannot say anything. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Bas, all your talkings, all your intelligence taken away. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Immediately transferred to another body. Daiva-netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). "No, no, I am Prime Minister!" "No, you must become a dog." Immediately. How can you protest? You cannot protest. You have acted like dog, just become a dog. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Just like your medical science, you have infected the disease, you must suffer disease. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ, guṇa-saṅgaḥ. There's infection.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ, pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. Etān vegān yo viṣa... You are manipulated by the udara-vegam, upastha-vegam. First there is test: etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ (NOI 1). Then for him Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). He has got three dozen sevā-dāsī, and living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. My Guru Mahārāja wanted to publish Govinda-līlāmṛta. He asked permission of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So first of all Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, "I'll tell you some day." And when he reminded, he said, "Yes you can print one copy. If you are so much anxious to print it, print one copy. You'll read and you will see that you have printed. Not for distribution." So we are printing all these books for understanding properly. Not that "Here is Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Let us go." Jump over like monkey. "Here is rāsa-līlā. Immediately..."

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Interviewer (5): How this movement has helped in solving any specific issue, any special problem?

Prabhupāda: We think the real problem is they do not know what they are.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Our modern education, they do not believe that there is spirit soul within the body and the spirit soul transmigrates from one body to another. Where is that education? Is there any education that there is spirit soul within the body and that spirit soul is transmigrating from one body to another? Is there any education, scientific education, all over the world? That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of decorating the dead body?

Guest: Correct. Yes. We must decorate real...

Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we have to make choice in this human form of life. Actually, the aim should be to go back home, back to Godhead. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Otherwise, within this material world, even if you go to the higher planetary system, then punar āvartinaḥ, you have to come back again. Now the human form of life should be properly utilized. If we think that this life is everything, that is wrong conception of life. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change this body. Transmigration of the soul. So by transmigration of the soul we have got this human form of life. If we properly utilize it, then we can make further progress. And if we do not, if we keep ourself as animals, then we'll degrade. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: About birth control. So birth control means the father and mother, the father and mother should not become father and mother unless they take full responsibility for the children to save them from the repetition of birth and death. This is the śāstric injunction. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The, everyone is, in this material world, is going on in the cycle of birth and death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Transmigrating from one body to another. And after many millions of years he gets the chance of becoming a human being. Now in this life he can stop the birth and death. Punar janma jāyate. That is Vedic culture. How to conquer over this process of repetition, birth and death.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: Even dvaita does not, something different from advaitam. In this particular fundamental. But even advaitam does not say that ātmā is equal to Paramātmā. He never says that. You have māyā. Māyā will be field to you and that you get rid of that māyā and you try to elevate your soul to the ātmā. And you come, go to the Paramātmā.

Prabhupāda: That is the beginning of spiritual lesson. Because that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone of us, we are identifying with this body. Just like if somebody asks what you are, "I am Mr. such and such, I am Indian, I am this, I am that." He is giving identification of the body. But that he is not. He's not this body. That is self-realization. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)—two things—deha, this body, and asmin dehe, there is dehinaḥ, the owner of the body. That is the beginning of spiritual education. Because generally almost 99.9% people, they are thinking that I am this body.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nirākāra means He has no material ākāra. That is nirākāra. Ākāra means we have got... Just like I have conception of you. So this ākāra is your material ākāra. It is not your real ākāra. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). The real person is within the body, but we have no connection with the real body. We see this outward... Just like seeing his dress, his... That's all.

Doctor: How to find the...? How to get to the ātman, the inner body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that first of all, try to understand what is the person. So because we have no eyes to see, indirectly dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). So many things. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. So many indirect way because we cannot directly perceive.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is special advantage of this age. People are very much fallen from spiritual standard, and to fall down from the spiritual standard means to spoil the humanity. There is no education on this point. That is Vedic culture. Most of them, they do not believe that there is soul, spirit soul, and human life is meant for understanding it and make progress on that platform. Most of them, they do not know. There is no education, I think so. Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā, mostly, but they do not understand the first lesson. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. What is your understanding about this transmigration of the soul?

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if we do not take advantage of the opportunity of understanding my identification, then we are committing suicide, jumping like cats and dogs, that's all. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Such persons have been described as go-kharaḥ. Go means cows, and khara means ass.

Indian man (3): Khara means?

Prabhupāda: Ass. I think this khara is word is used by Urdu. Phir vamusthi vrsti kharaḥ. (little discussion in Urdu or Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). One who identifies his body.

Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: Whole world is understanding Kṛṣṇa is the supreme teacher. At least at the present moment they are accepting. We are selling our books daily five to six lakhs' worth, only these Kṛṣṇa consciousness books. And in our country we do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme ācārya. What is this? That is our misfortune. Kṛṣṇa is recognized ācārya. There is no doubt about it.

Indian man (7): Sir, (Hindi?)

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa also says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). Ācārya and Kṛṣṇa-identical. Who is ācārya? Who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he is ācārya. Ācārya means one who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. That is ācārya.

Indian man (4): Because Kṛṣṇa never wrote any book...

Prabhupāda: He spoke.

Indian man (4): ...therefore we have to depend upon His...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Kṛṣṇa did not write, but Kṛṣṇa spoke. If you speak and if I note down and write, what is the difference? Because you did not see, therefore it is not good? He spoke and I note down, er, you note down. Then it is as good. Kṛṣṇa was speaking, and Sañjaya was noting, and that was written by Vyāsadeva in the Mahābhārata. So what is the difference?

Indian man (4): That is one disclosure. That is one only Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. First of all, you understand few lines of Bhagavad-gītā; then jump over other. About this only, one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13), if you simply understand this one line, your life will be successful.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rich man you can become but for how long you shall be rich? The nature is so cruel; at any moment he'll take away everything. Then what is the use of becoming? No, you become rich man. There is no... But you should know that "Although I am rich, powerful, everything can be taken by nature at any moment." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). That is statement of God, that "Any moment... You try to become rich, powerful, and president or minister, that's all right, but any moment, I can take everything from you." So who will protect himself? They have no brain that "Whatever I have created, it can be taken at any moment." So what is that confidence? They have no inquiry even. That this is a fact. Either you become Napoleon, Hitler or Gandhi, or this or that, any moment everything will be taken away. "Get out." Not only that, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), you have to accept another body. And that is no guarantee what body you are going to get because fully under the control of nature. They therefore don't believe in transmigration of the soul. And that is very great botheration. They try to evade. But Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "You cannot evade. It is nature's law." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within your body the soul is there. On account of presence of the soul—you were a child; now you are a grown young man—the body has changed. You were a boy; now you are young man. So on account of presence of the soul, the body is changing. So when this body will be finished, the soul will exist. Therefore, naturally you have to conclude, there will be another body.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You want to enjoy. Can you understand this? Everyone is trying to enjoy. So enjoy independently means that you don't care for... That is the fact. They don't care for God. So because they don't care for God, therefore they are punished: "You take care of your body." And as soon as you care for God, then there is no material body. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. So God, therefore, teaches us how to get out of this body.

Dr. Kneupper: That's the whole idea of mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kneupper: Mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is. Mokṣa means to stay in your original body. And bondage means we want different types of enjoyment, so God gives us the facility: "All right. Enjoy." If I do not make any discrimination of food... As human being, we must have discrimination. But if you don't discriminate, then you get the body of a pig. You can eat even stool. If you want to eat meat unrestricted, you become a tiger. Nature will give you facility. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies. So according to your desire, you'll get a body. God will give you.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be... Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body," so where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body. When you came out of the womb of your mother, the body was so small. And then little bigger body, little bigger body, little bigger body. Now you are full grown young man." So the body is changing, everyone can understand, but I can understand also that "I had so big..., small body and this body." Then body is changing; I am existing. Then where is the difficulty of the transmigration of the soul?

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: How does one decide... There are so many translations. How does one decide...

Prabhupāda: That depends on your philosophy. You are reading so many books. How do you select, "This is nice." That depends on your philosophy. But if you accept it that it is spoken by God, then there is no argument. But why should you accept it, spoken by God? You read it, whether how much logical, how much full of knowledge. Then you can say. The same thing. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "Within this body there is the soul, and because the soul is there, therefore body is changing." So anyone can... Any layman can understand. Things are there like that. So there is no difficulty. If we take, "Oh, this description, the transmigration of the soul-Hindu idea." Why Hindu idea? It is science. As soon as we consider it "Hindu," then it becomes sectarian. Then you will say, "I have got my Christian idea. Why shall I take your Hindu idea?"

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: So what I am, then you have to study in this way, whether you are this body or you are something else. Is it not? So that is in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā explained, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Find out this verse. This is self-realization. Bhagavad-gītā begins with self-realization, what I am. Am I this body or I am something other than this body? That is self-realization. So that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can be realized. Just like Kṛṣṇa, in the beginning of His teaching Bhagavad-gītā, He says that... What is the verse?

Girirāja:

dehino'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: So He answers because Arjuna was disturbed on this battlefield, that "How shall I fight with my relatives. I shall kill them. It is not my duty to kill my brothers or my nephews." He was perplexed. So the answer is given in a suitable way, that "You are thinking of killing the body of your brother. But your brother is not the body. And even if you think that your brother is being killed, so your brother, real, your brother, he will get another body." Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This is the answer. This is self-realization. That "You are very much disturbed on the bodily concepts of life, but your brother is not this body. Even if you so-called killing of your brother, he will live." That is further explained. Next verse.

Prabhupāda: That the any person, any living entity, he is not this body. That is the answer. So then two things. Suppose you are, I am, that I am thinking of this body, and at the same time I am thinking that this finger, I say, "My finger." Nobody says, "I finger." "My finger." Even a child he will say. So "My finger, my head, my legs." So what is that "my"? That is the question. The answer is negatively that that "I" or "my" is not this body. That is different from the body. Now what is the nature of that "I"? That is explained one after another, one after another, one, one. Because he has no idea. Every one of us... I am speaking, you are speaking. Theoretically we take, accept it that I am not this body. But practically I say, "I am this body." That is wrong. That has to be explained. And that is being explained. The question is one and the answer is one. There cannot be many questions or many answers. Answer is one. That answer is, Kṛṣṇa begins, that "As the body is changing, within our experience..." dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Very nice example. We are changing bodies. When you were born, there was no beard. Clean shaved or no hair. So that body has changed. It is not the same body. In which body you came out of the womb of your mother, that was a small body. That was a different body. This example given there. This body is changing during your experience of life. Similarly, after death the body will change, but you will continue. This is self-realization. It is not very difficult.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Self-realization that, that you are seeking what I am. Am I this body or something else? That is your inquiry. And the answer is that, "No, you are not this body."

Indian man: But questions remain the same.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not... Then it is explained, how you are not this body. In the beginning He explains, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Just like you see the body has changed every daily, per minute, the body is changing, imperceptively. But try to understand that you were a child, now your body has changed in a different body. But you understand, you remember, that "I was a child." But the child body is no longer. So you remember or not remember, the body is changing. This is the answer. This is self-realization.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Girirāja:

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ

tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

"It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kuntī, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father."

Prabhupāda: This is all very easy to understand. Mother means from whom the child is coming, is it not? That is mother. Everyone knows. So you see this whole world, wherefrom everything is coming, you see, practically, gross knowledge. I see a plant is coming from the earth. A tree is coming from the earth. And according to evolutionary theory... Not theory, fact. The dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). When his plant life is finished, he takes another body, insect life. So the mother is the earth. That's a fact. I am eating the things which are... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. I am a life. I am taking either grain or I am taking flesh, the material is supplied from the earth. The animal also, he is also eating the grass. That is coming from the earth. The earth is the mother. That is a fact. Now we should be intelligent, that simply mother cannot beget a child. There must be father. So who is that father? The answer is here. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So where is the ignorance?

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: As long as I continue my identity that "I am so and so, I am this body," or "I am a person, or ātmā seated in this body, or dwelling in this body," when I dislodge my body from ātmā, then what is the position?

Prabhupāda: You are different from the body. You are different from the body. You are soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body is temporary, you are eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are nityaḥ śāśvata. You are never killed even after the destruction of the body. That should... That is real understanding, that I am not this body. After annihilation of this body, I shall continue. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). You should know that you are eternal part and parcel of God. God is eternal. Just like gold and a small particle of gold, both of them are gold. A small particle of gold, it is also gold, but not equal to the gold mine. That is real understanding. And because you are little gold...

Mr. Malhotra: But potentiality?

Prabhupāda: Potential different, because a lump of gold and a small particle of gold, the value is not the same. Gold it is quality, but not the value the same. That you cannot say.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea. That only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to yauvanam, it is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, why you bring this Hindu idea? How much dull they are just imagine.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are two sections, the impersonalist and the personalist. The personalists are the Vaiṣṇavas, and the impersonalists are the Māyāvādīs. So far the spiritual life is concerned, there is no difference. There is no difference. Just like Śaṅkara. Śaṅkarācārya said that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The spiritual life is reality. And this is nonreality. But we say that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Kṛṣṇa said. We are follower of Kṛṣṇa. "This is a place of suffering. And if you come to Me then your suffering ends." So this world is condemned either by Śaṅkarācārya, or others, everyone. But the modern rascals, they have taken this world as everything. Therefore they are in ignorance. Do you follow? They have taken this world, this life of fifty years or sixty years, at most hundred years, as reality. These rascals have no knowledge that we have life after annihilation of this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who knows it? Bring big, big men, big, big politician.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who has seen actually Kṛṣṇa, go to him. But you are going to somebody who can manufacture gold. Because you are not concerned with Kṛṣṇa. You are concerned with gold. That is your motive. So you must be cheated. You want to be cheated. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know. Life's mission is how to achieve the platform where I can talk with Kṛṣṇa, I can talk with Lord. Where is that? Nobody knows that. They do not believe there is Kṛṣṇa, there is Lord, there is God and you can see Him, you can talk with Him. They do not believe. Mostly impersonalists. And impersonalists, they're all mostly atheists. So what they'll do by jugglery and this magic? This magic will be finished within twenty or thirty years. That will be finished. Show this magic that "No! No more death." That is real magic. What is this magic? In a moment you'll be slapped and go. Then tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You do not know where you are going. Kṛṣṇa says tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. But you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. So what this magic will do? So these are for less intelligent persons. They are not for sane persons.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Yogi Amrit Desai: He can reappear anytime, reconstruct his body, physically or...

Prabhupāda: Reappear any... Soul is reappeared, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So reappearing, that is natural. That is not wonderful thing. Everyone is reappearing. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Suppose you are in this dress, and after one hour you come in another dress. So you are there. The dress is changed. That is happening by nature's way. It doesn't require any yoga practice. It doesn't require. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: That is the truth, eternal truth. What you have said...

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So the idea is that after losing our own culture, we have become set of fools. This is the real conclusion. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We have become so lowest of mankind and mūḍha and full of sinful activities that we cannot understand what Kṛṣṇa says. This is real position. I am not speaking—Kṛṣṇa says. This is the sign. If one does not hear Kṛṣṇa, then he must be grouped in these categories: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. What is the value of their so-called education if they cannot understand the simple truth, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13)? What is the value of this education? Today I may be very big man, but I do not know that there is dehāntara. And what kind of deha I am going to get? Nobody has any knowledge, neither they're interested to cultivate. They have concluded that "After death, everything is finished." This is their education. Blind. Westerners, they say it frankly. That big, big professor, I have talked: "Swamiji, after death everything is finished." This is their conclusion. And our first education is that: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization. They are growing like cats and dogs and dying like cats and dogs. And yathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), and according to his work, he has to accept another body. That is nature's law. So in this life I am very big man, but by work, karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration, I have to accept a body of dog. Then what is the value of your being great now? That technology is unknown, although it is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So Kṛṣṇa never says that "You'll get such and such body." Dehāntara. "You'll have to change the body." Now, suppose... There are 8,400,000 types of bodies. Suppose next time I become a tree. Then just see horrible position. Here is a tree. I am within this room, sitting so comfortably, and the tree is standing there. I can get that life also, karmaṇā, by my work. So this technology is unknown. And we are very much proud of advancement of knowledge. Boliye. Am I right or wrong?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Analysis... (Hindi) Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So why you are trying to get better position? That should be the endeavor, that we may get better position.

Guest (2): Sat-saṅga.

Prabhupāda: Sat-saṅga, satāṁ prasaṅgāt. The sat-saṅga... We know that word only, but if we don't take advantage, then what is meaning?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Believe or not believe, that is another thing. But if you want to live worthy, then you have to study Bhagavad-gītā. You believe... Just like somebody believes or not believes in dehāntara, but nature's course will go on. Young man thinks "I'll remain young. I shall not become old man." He may believe like that, but he has to become old man. That is nature's law. So there is no question of "believe" or "not believe." If you believe, then you are benefited; if you don't believe, you go to hell. It is not the question of belief. I was speaking in South Africa in a university. So one gentleman, Arya-samāji said... When I was explaining tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, so he objected that "Why you bring Hindu belief?" "And, nonsense, it is Hindu belief?" It is said that kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: one boy is becoming young man. Is this for Hindu? It is not for the Muslim? And he said "Hindu belief." Such a fool he is. He said, "It is Hindu belief." Kṛṣṇa is giving this example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So does it mean that Hindus only from kaumāra become yuvaka, and from yuvaka to old man, and the Muslims, they do not? It is science! You believe or not believe. If you don't take the fact, then your life is missing. What is the question? Two plus two equal to four—it is not Hindu calculation, Muslim calculation or Christian calculation. You cannot say that "No, according to our Muslim calculation, two plus two equal to five." Two plus two is always four, either for a Hindu or Muslim or Christian. So whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is for understanding of the human society. Why do you take: "It is Hindu belief. It is Indian belief"? It is science. That is our misfortune, that a science we are accepting as a kind of belief, faith. And that we are neglecting. That is our misfortune.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Formerly civilization did not have so many technological devices.

Prabhupāda: This is not civilization. They do not know what is civilization. Suppose a mechanic has constructed this car far better than me. That is not civilization. A good craftsmanship. If you do not know what is the aim of life, what is your duty, then what is your civilization? That they do not know. The first defect of the civilization is that they are taking account of these fifty or sixty years of life. Life is continuation. That they do not know. This life, I am getting this facility of this car; next life I become a tree. What is the advantage after fifty years, if you are going to be a tree, stand up for five hundred years? This philosophy they do not know. Tathā dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13). Here is the defect, that "You will have to change this body." They have become so dullheaded. "Oh, what is there? I change or die? It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy." This is the difficulty.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now, this, this is fact, that when this body is no more working, the subtle body carries the soul to another gross body. That they cannot see, but it acts. This science they do not know. Seeing is always not competent, material eye. Just like the example is given that flavor is carried by the air. It is being carried, but I cannot see. But it is being carried. That is transmigration of the soul. The soul is carried by the subtle body to another particular body, and according to his karma under superior examination, the soul, a very small particle, one ten-thousandth part of the hair, he is put into the semina of the particular father, and he injects. So the soul takes place in the womb of the mother. She supplies the material to develop the next body. This is the process, transmigration. Then, when the body is complete to come out, then another body works. Another chapter begins: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So this is development.

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...'20, and it is 1977. How many years?

Gurukṛpa: Fifty-seven years.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-seven years after. (laughs) So the body has not changed? Where is that body? Now I am with stick. (laughter) Then I was jumping. Is not that? I am there. I remember. The body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand? I am the same person. How I am remembering all these things. But I have no... That body is now lost. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Why this simple philosophy these rascals cannot understand? I remember I am not the second man. I am the same person but I haven't got the same body. The whole world this simple philosophy cannot understand. Where is the difficulty? I cannot understand.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara prāptir

dhīra...

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

because they are not dhīra. Dhīra means sober. They're rascals. They cannot understand. But dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are sober, they can understand immediately. So there is no education to make people sober and intelligent. All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, that's all. Animals. What they will understand about spiritual life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa... After all, Kṛṣṇa is speaking. This very word is used. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Adhira. There are two classes of men, dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means sober, and adhīra means restless. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us something... Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra.

Prabhupāda: Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). The prakṛti will change your body. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). And He's giving vivid example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). And Kṛṣṇa is speaking. I shall not believe in Kṛṣṇa's word, and I shall go to some rascal? We are not so fool. Fools are bahir-artha-māninaḥ. "Oh, we are making this advancement. We will do in the future. We'll do." These are the business of the fools and rascals, not intelligent, which will never be successful. Durāśaya. But they'll stick to that false hope.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "What is it? If it is nonphysical nonchemical, then what it is?" They inquire.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: That means they have to accept two things—material and spiritual. (break) ...little difficult. Therefore we have to understand from the authority. The same argument, that you have to understand who is your father from the mother. There is no other... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "The real living being is within this body, and he's changing." We have to accept. There is no experimental... (break) Because they are not sober... A sober man does not hesitate. Accept. Dhīras tatra... Therefore this word has been used. Rascal cannot understand. So indirectly one who does not understand, he's a rascal number one. That's all.

Prabhupāda: So we have to prove that "You have no brain at all. Your brain is like cats and dogs. That is not brain. Even if you are scientist, philosopher, the position of your brain is the same. You do not know what is that thing missing that a living being is dead. You do not know. For centuries in the history you could not answer this. So where is your brain?" On this point discuss you amongst yourselves. Write one article and send, signing your name. Is it not a fact, that "brain-giving" movement? There is no brain. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). "If you had brain, then you could understand. But you have no brain. Where is the question of washing? It is brain-giving movement." Am I right or wrong?

Hari-śauri: You say you do know what that thing is, so why don't you produce it...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know, but I say it cannot be replaced. I know it. And you are rascal. You say, "It can be replaced. We are trying, after millions of years..." Therefore you have no brain. We say it cannot be produced. It is gone. It has accepted another body. We say like that. We don't say that it can be brought again and then replaced. We don't say that. Therefore we have got a brain. You have no brain. Just like motorcar stops. The driver has gone to another. And if a rascal finds out how it can be run without that driver, then he has no brain. And one who has brain—"Here the driver has gone. Now it cannot be run"—that is brain. You falsely trying. Driver has gone out, and you are trying to run on the car by putting petrol, by putting grease, by utilizing... That means you have no brain. Uselessly you are trying. That means you have no brain. I have got brain. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Hari-śauri: Yes. They say, "Think for yourself," but they don't know what themselves are. They don't know "Who am I," so how can they think for themselves?

Prabhupāda: That you have to prove, that "You have no brain, no intelligence. Therefore you are finding out completely different. On which platform we are speaking, you do not know. So that platform, first of all you have to distinguish—it is matter or spirit? Then spiritual. You have no idea what is spirit, and where is spiritual platform. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this point, that the spirit is within, not this body. That is your identity."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has to be stressed.

Prabhupāda: That has to be understood, and therefore He's explaining in so many ways. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This one word, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. He cannot understand it. "The body's finished, everything's finished." These rascal professors. And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20), "Don't think it is finished. It is there." Who will understand it? It requires a special brain. These rascals say, "Now everything's finished. The body's finished." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, no. Not finished." Who will understand this, unless he has got a very good brain? And our education begins from that point. These rascals, when they are disappointed—"Bas, finished"—we begin from there. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. It is there. Where it is? Dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) he has taken another body. A man is sleeping; he has taken another body. He's jumping on the tree. How we can see? It's a fact. He has forgotten that "I am on a nice bed," and he's somewhere else. How it is? You see that he is sleeping, that he's not working. But he is working. Where is that brain? And it is a fact. I see the man is sleeping, but he has gone somewhere else. That is our daily experience. You cannot see it, where he has gone.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And who is father according to that definition? This is our formula.

Ādi-keśava: They argue sometimes. They say, "You are saying that you guru..."

Prabhupāda: You are argue your point, but our argument is here. You are arguing from your point of view, and we shall argue from our point of view. Unless the father releases the son from the cycle of birth and death, he's not father. This is our formula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In order to accept this, they will have to rewrite the laws.

Prabhupāda: This is the actual... Now, apart from the scriptural injunction, if one comes to the argument, then such kind of father is there in the animal society also. Cats and dogs, they also beget children, but they cannot relieve the child from the cycle of birth and death. And Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you have to see what is the actual distress in this material life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So in this life you are my father, and next time I become a cat or dog, so who cares for this father? I get another father. So who knows this law? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). The laws of nature is going on, and everything is happening. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). We are getting a type of body according to karma.

Jayapatākā: The electric cable from the generator, they're putting clamps on the building.

Prabhupāda: Just try to understand how transmigration, that tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntara. How dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) is... He has proposed or desired, "If I could have possessed such body... If I could have gone in heavenly planets... If I could have become tiger..." In this way he's desiring. Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. That's all right. Let him work. Otherwise...

Jayapatākā: I can have him do (indistinct), and other system.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So go down in the fire. You'll see. Why you cannot go to the fire?

Hari-śauri: We light a fire. We don't see any life.

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Vedic knowledge means whatever is beyond the capacity of your senses, that you have to hear from the right source. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). And that is the teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. When the things became so complicated, Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa: śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). And then He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. And the first teaching of Bhagavad-gītā is this, that you are not this body.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Dhīra, one has to become, has to become sober. Then he'll understand. And if he remains restless on the bodily platform, as the animals are... They cannot understand. They cannot understand. If you bring some dog and instruct the dog, "My dear dog, you are not this body," it is not possible. But dhīra, if one is not dog—he is human being—he can teach. Therefore this word is used, dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). So that is the beginning of spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: It is said, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. (aside:) If there are outsiders, they should be given plate. (break) The dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). These words are there. Actually to understand this Kṛṣṇa philosophy, it is not for ordinary person.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The people cannot accept... (laughs) Therefore I said, dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're too restless.

Jayatīrtha: Adhīra.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say that education has been so wrongly given that they are restless like animals due to the modern civilization. The beginning of spiritual education they cannot accept. What they will make, further progress of spiritual life? Beginning, ABCD, they are so restless, they cannot take. This is the position. Therefore I'm speaking that it is meant for the dhīra, for the rājarṣi. Not for the men who are like animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Their bodily conception is so strong that they cannot hear even what is said. They are so dull. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10).

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "This Bhagavad-gītā what I am speaking, if one is not interested to hear it or to take it, then result will be he'll not get Me." "So what is loss if I don't get You?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: "Then go again to the cycle of birth and death." That's it. That is nature's law. If my next life I become a worm, then it will take millions of years to evolve, again come to the human standard. How I am lost. That they do not know. It is clearly said. Mām aprāpya: "By not getting Me." "So what is loss if I don't get Kṛṣṇa?" No, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. That you cannot check. You have to die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to accept another body. Then you go on. Why this human form of life should be lost in this way? So at least to try to give this knowledge to the people in general is para-upakāra. This is para-upakāra. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. India can especially do it.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: On the road we see so many four-wheel cars racing. Does it mean this will solve the problems of life? What is the difference? If the dog is running and I am also running in a four-wheel car, so where is the difference? (Hindi) What is the difference? Is that advancement of civilization because I am in a four-wheel Mercedes car and the dog is running on the street? He will also die, I will die, and he will have to change, he'll also change body, I have to change body. Next life, I may be a dog like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). My problem is how to stop this business, how to get my real life. So one who is interested in real life, why he should join the dog race? It is all dog race. And they are taking it as advancement of knowledge. That is not advancement. They do not know how to stop. Nature will not excuse you. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22).

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This movement is started to give something to the whole human society about the real culture. And that is India's prerogative. India can give it. The whole world is in darkness of ignorance. So India was expected after independence to give the real knowledge. But instead of giving the real knowledge, they became victimized by their glimmer of material civilization. So I wanted that such a magnificent gift from the side of India, it shall remain uncontributed to the world, let me try. This is my... This culture is based on Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is named Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In India practically every home, every person, every leader, they read Bhagavad-gītā. But unfortunately they do not understand the human life. Because in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā we find Kṛṣṇa says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Take Bhagavad-gītā.

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

(BG 2.11)

This is beginning. When Kṛṣṇa began to instruct, began instructing Arjuna about Bhagavad-gītā, the first chastisement was given to Arjuna that "You are talking like a paṇḍita, but you are a rascal."

Prabhupāda: This is a wrong type of civilization. A civilization of ignorance. Animal civilization. Just like animals: the cat, the dog, the cow, he does not know what is the working principle in the body. So he is jumping and running as a dog, as a cat, and he appears to be very busy. Similarly, the modern civilization, they are jumping and running like cats and dogs, but does not know what is the principle which is helping him to jump and run. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Asmin dehe dehinaḥ. The active principle is there within this body. So who knows it? Ask big, big leaders, big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā. They are concerned with this body. Nobody is interested with the active principle within the body. So what do they know about Bhagavad-gītā? The basic principle is wrong. Kṛṣṇa is speaking on the subject matter within the body, the active principle. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe. The dehī, the owner of the body, is there. Who knows it? Tell me. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. But one does not know that what is the important thing in this body. Not this machine, but the power that is driving the machine. And still, they are proud of becoming scholar on Bhagavad-gītā, knower of Bhagavad-gītā and so on, so on. This is going on. This misconception. They are themselves in ignorance, and they are keeping their followers in ignorance. Therefore no benefit has been derived from this culture of Bhagavad-gītā. We wanted to give it to the world. This is the purpose.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: How is your health now?

Prabhupāda: Not good. Health or not health, it is the outward machine. That doesn't matter. But if it is a good machine then it helps, that's all. Otherwise, machine good or bad, it doesn't matter to machine driver.

Mr. Koshi: What happens when the machine stops?

Prabhupāda: It changes. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Mr. Koshi: What is the meaning of that?

Prabhupāda: If your machine is stopped, you take another machine. That's all. You go on hearing. Not that your work will stop. You give up this machine. Take another machine. Actually you do that. Why shall I be overwhelmed, "Oh, machine is gone, machine is..."? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvam: (BG 2.11) "You are lamenting for the machine, nonsense. This is not paṇḍita's business." Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Machine is gone, take another one, that's all. Go on.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Indira Gandhi goes, another Gandhi comes, another Gandhi goes, another Gandhi comes, another. That is the history, whole history of the world. There is nothing new. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Politics means chewing the chewed, that's all.

Mr. Koshi: Chewing the?

Prabhupāda: Chewing something, just like sugar candy. You have chewed it, taken all the juice, you have thrown it away. Another man is chewing it. It is like that. Indira Gandhi also promised so many things, and she is now out, and somebody is speaking something.

Mr. Koshi: Morarji now.

Prabhupāda: Anyone. And in some day he will not be there, somebody will come. That is the history of the whole world. But that will not benefit the human society, politics. It is useless. This knowledge will help make the solution. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). We are suffering in this material condition, and He is delivering from this. That is real upakāra. That's the repetition of history, politics.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I advised Gandhi that he should retire. He never retired. That's all right. And our program is, they have chucked out. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. You show your all nonsense ability up to fifty years. Don't go more than that. Because you are rascal, you will never be able to do anything, but jump like monkey up to fifty years, not more than that. Monkey jumping may be continued up to fifty years. Then retire. They will continue monkey jumping up to the last point of death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then he'll jump into the grave.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If two plus two equal to four. If somebody says "In our opinion it should be five..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no one will accept that.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if government requires teaching the science that this body is not yourself, you are different from the body, if some other sect, they say, "That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā; it is meant for the Hindus, not for us," will it be accepted?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should not be.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the institution for teaching Bhagavad-gītā must be there. The science of life...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be there in every university.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's scientific. It is the only scientific book.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Kaumāra, childhood, yauvanam, youthhood, and jarā, old age, does it mean only for the Hindus?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then how this science should be stopped for others? It is universal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just as that Christian asked you, is Lord Jesus's teachings universal. The Christians, they say that Jesus's teachings are universal. So that means that they must be true.

Prabhupāda: And they accept yes, and we say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jesus said "Thou shalt not kill." This applies to all human beings. So if they say that about Jesus's teachings, why not about dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)? They should say.

Prabhupāda: The whole human society is being put into ignorance. How we can tolerate? We know the things. How we can hide it? Jñāna-khala. One who knows the thing, how he can hide it? He is called jñāna-khala. He has got the knowledge but he will not give it to anyone else.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So human life is so important, and we are simply wasting this valuable life with this temporary adjustment of so-called happiness or distress, big, big plans. Simply bluffing. Indira Gandhi, one daridrāṇaṁ hata(?): "Poverty drive away." Now she is poverty-stricken. "Oh, you want to drive away poverty? Now drive away your own poverty. Where is your position? How you can drive away? You do not dare to come out." Twelve nights. Within one day. Who has made this? This is possible for everyone. Why do they not care, this important knowledge? This knowledge is India's knowledge, and India government is callous. They are not interested in distributing this knowledge. Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. Just like a person who has got enough knowledge, but he does not give it to others, it is to check the flame. Such a risky civilization... The knowledge is there, and people are kept in darkness. What is this? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So we are the only friends, within this world, of the human society.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let there be an institution fully following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then people will be benefited. If you say, "It is secular," Bhagavad-gītā is for every man. There is no question of Hindu, Muslim, Christian or this or that, no. When Kṛṣṇa says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

So this growing... A child is growing to become a boy. A boy is growing to become a young man. A young man is growing to become an old man. So what is the secular? Everyone grows. Does it mean, when it is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is only meant for the Hindus?

Mr. Rajda: It is universal activities.

Prabhupāda: It is universal, science. It is science. So why this science is kept locket up and distorted by the leaders? If you understand one line of Bhagavad-gītā, your life becomes successful. Now our leaders are supposed to read Bhagavad-gītā, but who understands this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13)? Nobody understands. And they are scholars of Bhagavad-gītā. They cannot understand this one line in the beginning. This is going on. So I would request you to take this matter seriously and... And it is being responded. I am writing these books on Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and we are selling daily five to six lakhs' worth of books. In a foreign country, where their religious system is different, and during Christmas festival we are selling our books, large quantity.

Prabhupāda: Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says the perfect life, how one can become perfect, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manāḥ, "just become My devotee," mad-bhaktaḥ, "worship me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "simply offer your obeisances unto Me." One, two, three, four-four items. If you do one item at least, your life becomes successful. Even this child can do this. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā and follow the principle—not at all difficult. It is not reserved for any particular class of men or country or society, such a nice thing, and the human body is meant for understanding this knowledge, not to imitate the cats and dogs, jumping. This is being done by the cats and dogs. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is meant for understanding this science. So this opportunity there is, but we are blocking them not to take this knowledge and try to understand how to jump like cats and dogs. Greatest disservice to the human society. We have got such chance, so instead of helping you to get the chance, if I mislead you another way, is it not greatest disservice?

Mr. Rajda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is being done all over the world. If you simply understand this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ... (BG 2.13). So today I am Indian, and after death I become something else.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And these foreign boys, they begin their, this Bhagavad-gītā practice from 3.30 to 9.30. They have no other business. You see. You have studied our, this Girirāja. The whole day he's doing. They're all on this. From morning, 3.30, till they are tired, 9.30, simply Bhagavad-gītā.

Mr. Rajda: Wonderful.

Prabhupāda: And we have got so many materials. If we discuss on this one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), it takes days to understand.

Mr. Rajda: Quite.

Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And we are prepared to challenge or meet challenge of any scientist, any philosopher, any politician, anyone. It is not dogmatic.

Mr. Rajda: Not dogmatic at all.

Prabhupāda: The same: it is science. And Kṛṣṇa says, begins, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So who can say anything against this statement? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). But unfortunately our people takes Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, as... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhaḥ. If we remain mūḍha, how we can be...? Because Kṛṣṇa comes just like a human being to teach us, we are taking that He's one of us. "Then I can also become Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. For so many thousands of years Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are millions of temples in India for worshiping Kṛṣṇa. He is ordinary man? So many big, big leaders came and gone. Who care for them? Why Kṛṣṇa is being worshiped still? These are the questions.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the leaders of government, they are encouraging like that. Instead of encouraging honesty and work according to the varṇas, cātur-varṇyam, they are doing like this to become...

Prabhupāda: There is no honesty all over the world. It is a forgotten. "These are primitive," they say, "Now, the honesty, to become pious, to become religious. These are simply primitive idea." We have to open this. That is a specific subject matter of that... But we have to write very nicely. Everything is based on tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So who understands Bhagavad-gītā? Where Bhagavad-gītā begins? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). They do not understand even the first line of Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of this statement. Bhagavad-gītā is purely meant for the dehī, the owner of the body, not of the body. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā teaching. Who understands it? Nobody understands it. And they are scholars, and they are so on, so on.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The movie should be given out with also a copy of Bhagavad-gītā along with it. To be a part of the film.

Prabhupāda: You can give in this course(?) Bhagavad-gītā, Sanskrit, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Or the English translation. You have got that abridged edition?

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So will you accept the atheists or Kṛṣṇa? That is our process. The atheist will say "It is burnt into ashes. Where, where is soul?" Kṛṣṇa says, "No," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He is not dead. He has gone to another body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Those who are sober, they are not disturbed. So we have to become sober. These restless rascals, how they will become sober? Suppose a child is restless child, how can you convince him about philosophy? Sober man, cool-headed man, he can be convinced. So this is a childish civilization. This is not sober civilization. There is no full-brain man. All restless dogs and hogs. And they have taken it is first class, dogs and hogs. Actually, they are living dogs and hogs, and they are claiming civilized. There is no difference dogs and hogs life and the modern man.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body... Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line. This is the fact now going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). If you accept this first principle... You have to accept. Accept or deny, it doesn't matter. You are young man. I say that you will become old man. You accept or deny, it doesn't matter; you must be an old man. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: And even the present brāhmaṇas also equally misunderstand. For instance, Gītā is compulsory in every institution right from the very beginning. So at one time, because it was compulsory for Muslims, even it was compulsory for the harijanas. I stood excommunicated for some time. Now sometimes complaint goes to the government, "What is solution?" And therefore they say, "Why government should hear you? You are complaining everybody." "This is not everybody. This is..." Gītā is no particular religion's book. It is a cosmopolitan...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

In big meeting I told him that "I have not come here to beg. I have come here to give." Everyone goes from... Even the Prime Minister goes-beg. All beggars. And it is known as "beggars' nation." But you can be the giver nation. You have got so much potency. But we are not training people in that way. They are learning dog dancing. That's all. If we simply understand this one word, beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā... There are so many students of Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands Bhagavad-gītā. The beginning is,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Is not there in the beginning?

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: So if there is dehāntara-prāpti, then where is your so-called nationalism, socialism? They do not understand. Suppose if you are Indian today and dehāntara-prāpti, you become something else, then where is your nationalism? Boliye. For twenty years or, say, fifty years nationalism... When you become young man, thirty-forty years, then you begin. Suppose you live for hundred years. So fifty years' nationalism. Then if by chance you become a dog?

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is very dangerous civilization. If you want to save them from this dangerous civilization, you must push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise there is no other way. (Hindi) Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dhīra. (Hindi) Yato mata tato patha. (Hindi) Secular state. (Hindi) (break) (Hindi) Prāyaścitta-vimarṣaṇam. (Hindi) Do you think they'll do?

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Expecting. Hope against hope. This is struggle. That they do not see. They do... We have got this valuable life. What we are doing? We are doing the same thing as the small ants do. So what is the difference between that life and this life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes that "This is not your business. Your business is to surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That will be solved automatically. But they don't. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it for solving these problems. Gandhi and Bhagavad-gītā—what is that? Political struggle. Such a rascal. And he's leader? He does not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Has Kṛṣṇa come down to speak how to defend, how to eat, how to sleep? Is there any statement there? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Solve this problem. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the article in the current news weekly they quoted Prabhupāda as saying that nobody even understands one line of Bhagavad...

Prabhupāda: No, you also understand now that charge, how it is a fact. The fact is, as it is in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body. Then, if you have to change your body, then where is the question of nationalism? The first thing is mistake. And the nationalist leader, they are taking Bhagavad-gītā and jumping like dog on nationalism. Where is the question of nationalism? Answer me. Hm?

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter. And what is life? Then He said that

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati