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BG 02.05 gurun ahatva hi mahanubhavan... cited

Expressions researched:
"Even though desiring worldly gain, they are superiors" |"It would be better to live in this world by begging" |"bhunjiya bhogan rudhira-pradigdhan" |"everything we enjoy will be tainted with blood" |"gurun ahatva hi mahanubhavan" |"hatvartha-kamams tu gurun ihaiva" |"sreyo bhoktum bhaiksyam apiha loke" |"than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "2.5" or "Even though desiring worldly gain, they are superiors" or "It would be better to live in this world by begging" or "bhunjiya bhogan rudhira-pradigdhan" or "everything we enjoy will be tainted with blood" or "gurun ahatva hi mahanubhavan" or "hatvartha-kamams tu gurun ihaiva" or "sreyo bhoktum bhaiksyam apiha loke" or "than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers"

Bhagavad-gita As It Is

BG Chapters 1 - 6

BG 2.5, Translation and Purport:

It would be better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though desiring worldly gain, they are superiors. If they are killed, everything we enjoy will be tainted with blood.

According to scriptural codes, a teacher who engages in an abominable action and has lost his sense of discrimination is fit to be abandoned. Bhīṣma and Droṇa were obliged to take the side of Duryodhana because of his financial assistance, although they should not have accepted such a position simply on financial considerations. Under the circumstances, they have lost the respectability of teachers. But Arjuna thinks that nevertheless they remain his superiors, and therefore to enjoy material profits after killing them would mean to enjoy spoils tainted with blood.

Lectures

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Lecture on BG 2.1-5 -- Germany, June 16, 1974:

Prabhupāda: Next verse also.

Satsvarūpa:

gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān
śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke
hatvārtha-kāmāṁs tu gurūn ihaiva
bhuñjīya bhogān rudhira-pradigdhān
(BG 2.5)

Prabhupāda: Synonyms? No. Everyone goes to bring that flask, and everyone is lost.

Satsvarūpa: Here it is.

Prabhupāda: (to translator who translates throughout:) In German language you can just translate this śloka he has ut...

So this was a discussion between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. So the subject of discussion was that although the battle was declared, Arjuna, when he actually found that "On the other side there are my relatives," how he could slay them? Kṛṣṇa advised that "Everyone must execute his prescribed duty without consideration of any personal loss or gain." According to Vedic civilization, there are four divisions of the society. Everywhere the same divisions are there all over the world. This is very natural. Just like we can study from our own body, there is head, there is arm, there is belly, and there is leg, similarly, in the society there must be a class of men who should be considered as brain, another class of men should be there who will protect the society from danger, another class of men will be expert in producing food grains and give protection to the cows and make trade, so.

Lecture on BG 2.1-10 and Talk -- Los Angeles, November 25, 1968:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, then our spoils will be tainted with blood (BG 2.5)."

Prabhupāda: This is another indication how superiors should be shown respect. Arjuna says, "Although they have become avaricious, still, they are my superior." Avaricious, why? "They have got full affection for me. My grandfather Bhīṣma has got full affection for me. And Droṇācārya, I am his very dear student so he has also my very affection... good affection for me. But because Duryodhana has paid them, he has accepted their service. Paid them. So avaricious. Simply for money, in spite of so much affection and intimate relationship, they have accepted the service of Duryodhana, counting on money. So therefore they are avaricious. But in spite of their being avaricious, they are my respectful." This is respect. This is respect, that the respectful person who is my respectful, even there are some characteristics who does not command respect, still respect should be offered. This is a respectful offering. Yes.

Lecture on BG 2.1-11 -- Johannesburg, October 17, 1975:

He is addressing Kṛṣṇa as arisūdana, the killer of the enemies. He says, "But in my case, I have to fight with Bhīṣma, Droṇācārya. They are my well-wisher, and how can I kill them? It is my duty to offer my respect, touching their feet, and You are enticing me to pierce their body with arrow? So, of course, You have killed so many enemies, but You have killed enemies. Why You are inducing me to kill my grandfather and my teacher?" Of course, Arjuna, also intelligent. He replied that "You cannot accuse me as anārya. This is the consideration. Therefore I am hesitating to fight." Then he says,

gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān
śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke
hatvārtha-kāmāṁs tu gurūn ihaiva
bhuñjīya bhogān rudhira-pradigdhān
(BG 2.5)

"They are not only my grandfather. They are guru. And mahānubhāvān, very great personality, Bhīṣmadeva, Droṇācārya. So if I kill them and if I live prosperously, taking the kingdom, do You think it is all right that I live on the blood of my guru and great personalities? Do You think it is all right?" Of course, he says,

na caitad vidmaḥ kataran no garīyo
yad vā jayema yadi vā no jayeyuḥ
yān eva hatvā na jijīviṣāmas
te 'vasthitāḥ pramukhe dhārtarāṣṭrāḥ
(BG 2.6)

"Kṛṣṇa, actually I am puzzled. It is my duty to fight, but now I am puzzled whether I shall fight or not fight because, after all, the other side, they are my relatives, family members, dhārtarāṣṭrāḥ. Dhṛtarāṣṭra is my elder brother of my father, and his sons they are my cousin-brothers. So I am puzzled whether I shall fight." He plainly explained his position that "Not that I have become anārya. I have got sufficient strength. I can fight, but I am puzzled whether I shall fight in this case or not."

Lecture on BG 2.2-6 -- Ahmedabad, December 11, 1972:

So this is the problem: duty. Arjuna was forgetting duty. And Kṛṣṇa was inducing him: "Never mind. According to kṣatriya rules and regulation, even the opposite party is your own son, you should not hesitate to kill him. This is kṣatriya's business." If the opposite party is your own son, but when there is fight, there must be decided: one party must be killed. This is kṣatriya's business. So he says, gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān (BG 2.5). "These guru, this Droṇācārya and Bhīṣma, they are not ordinary men." Mahānubhāvān. Bhīṣma, everyone knows. Bhīṣma is one of the authorities, authorities of religious principle. There are twelve authorities.

Lecture on BG 2.2-6 -- Ahmedabad, December 11, 1972:
There are twelve authorities.
svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam
(SB 6.3.20)

There are four, twelve authorities. One of them is Bhīṣma. Prahlādo janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakir vayam. So Bhīṣma is not ordinary person. Therefore he said, katham, gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke (BG 2.5). "I do not like to kill my guru, who is so great, and my grandfather. Better I shall become a beggar." A kṣatriya's business is not to beg. A brāhmaṇa can beg. A brāhmaṇa can accept charity, but kṣatriya cannot accept any charity from anyone else. Neither he can come down to do business like the vaiśyas. That is not. Everyone should stick to his own principle. If this is followed, then it is really secular government.

Lecture on BG 2.2-6 -- Ahmedabad, December 11, 1972:

Only there are some few vaiśyas and śūdras. So therefore there is chaos all over the world. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for creating some real brāhmaṇa. At least, there may be head. They are all mad after the influence of the material energy. So there is need of some brāhmaṇa who can give advice to the people how to live, how to become God conscious, how to become happy. There is great need of this movement. Simply so-called classless society will not help us. That is not Vedic civilization.

Hatvārtha-kāmāṁs tu gurūn ihaiva bhuñjīya bhogān rudhira-pradigdhān. (BG 2.5) So Arjuna is giving his nice argument that "If I kill my such great-grandfather and such noble, my teacher, then after killing them, if I enjoy this world, it will be mixed with blood and fire. So I cannot fight. I can..." Arjuna clearly declined to fight.

Lecture on BG 2.4-5 -- London, August 5, 1973:

Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

arjuna uvāca
kathaṁ bhīṣmam aham saṅkhye
droṇaṁ ca madhusūdana
iṣubhiḥ pratiyotsyāmi
pūjārhāv ari-sūdana
(BG 2.4)
gurūn ahatvā hi mahānubhāvān
śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke
hatvārtha-kāmāṁs tu gurūn ihaiva
bhuñjīya bhogān rudhira-pradigdhān
(BG 2.5)

Translation: "Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu (Kṛṣṇa), how can I counterattack with arrows in battle men like Bhīṣma and Droṇa, who are worthy of my worship? It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood."

Prabhupāda: So the first problem was for Arjuna how to kill the kinsmen, family men. Now, when he was chastised by Kṛṣṇa as a friend that "Why you are so weak? Don't be weak. This is sentiment. This kind of compassion is sentiment. Uttiṣṭha. You better get up and fight." If I do not want to do something, I can offer so many pleas. You see. So next he is presenting gurūn: "All right, Kṛṣṇa, you are talking about my kinsmen. I accept that it is my weakness. But how do You advise me to kill my guru? Droṇācārya is my guru. And Bhīṣmadeva is also my guru. So do you want me to kill my guru? Gurūn hi hatvā. And not only ordinary guru. This is not that they are ordinary men.

Lecture on BG 2.4-5 -- London, August 5, 1973:

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned that "Those who are viṣayī, those who are not devotees, do not accept anything from them because it will make your mind unclean." So therefore a brāhmaṇa and a Vaiṣṇava, they do not accept directly money. They accept bhikṣā. Bhikṣā. Just like here it is said bhaikṣyam. Śreyo bhoktuṁ bhaikṣyam apīha loke (BG 2.5). When you ask somebody... Still, bhikṣā is also sometimes prohibited from a person who is too much materialist. But bhikṣā is allowed for sannyāsīs, for brāhmaṇa. So therefore Arjuna is speaking that "Instead of killing such great gurus who are so great personalities, mahānubhāvān..." So bhaikṣyam. For a kṣatriya... A brāhmaṇa, a sannyāsī can beg, can beg alms, but not a kṣatriya, not a vaiśya. That is not allowed. So he was a kṣatriya, Arjuna. So he says, "Better I shall take the profession of a brāhmaṇa and beg from door to door instead of enjoy the kingdom by killing my guru." That was his proposal. So on the whole, Arjuna is illusioned—illusioned in the sense that he is forgetting his duty. He is a kṣatriya, his duty is to fight; never mind the opposite party, even he is son, a kṣatriya will not hesitate to kill his son even if he is inimical. Similarly, the son, if the father is inimical, he would not hesitate to kill his father. This is the stringent duty of the kṣatriyas, no consideration. A kṣatriya cannot consider like that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, klaibyam: "You don't be coward. Why you are becoming coward?" These topics are going on. Later on, Kṛṣṇa will give him real spiritual instruction. This is... Ordinary talks are going on between the friend and the friend.

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: One translation of every verse, go on, read.

Hari-śauri: "The Supreme Person Bhagavān said: My dear Arjuna, how have these impurities come upon you? They are not at all befitting a man who knows the progressive values of life. They do not lead to higher planets, but to infamy. O son of Pṛthā, do not yield to this degrading impotence. It does not become you. Give up such petty weakness of heart and arise, O chastiser of the enemy. Arjuna said: O killer of Madhu, Kṛṣṇa, how can I counteract with arrows in battle men like Bhīṣma and Droṇa who are worthy of my worship? It is better to live in this world by begging than to live at the cost of the lives of great souls who are my teachers. Even though they are avaricious, they are nonetheless superiors. If they are killed, our spoils will be tainted with blood. Nor do we know which is better, conquering them or being conquered by them. The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield. Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am your disciple and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me. I can find no means to drive away this grief which is drying up my senses. I will not be able to destroy it even if I win an unrivalled kingdom on the earth with sovereignty like that of the demigods in heaven. Sañjaya said: Having thus spoken, Arjuna the chastiser of the enemies told Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, I shall not fight, and fell silent. O descendant of Bhārata, at that time, Kṛṣṇa, smiling in the midst of both the armies spoke the following words to the griefstricken Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument.

Page Title:BG 02.05 gurun ahatva hi mahanubhavan... cited
Compiler:MadhuGopaldas, Visnu Murti
Created:22 of Feb, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=1, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=8, Con=1, Let=0
No. of Quotes:10