Agree (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"agree" |"agreeances" |"agreed" |"agreeing" |"agrees"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: agree or agreeances or agreed or agreeing or agrees not "does not agree" not "doesn't agree" not "do not agree" not "did not agree" not "didn't agree" not "don't agree" not "not agree"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are others also?

Indian: I went to the printing press, and I asked him "Why don't you print like the other books you have, Easy Journey to Other Planets?" So he said that "We have done little mistake, and the next printing it will be better."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a mistake. We perfectly agreed. You told me so, that (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: What will be price for one lakh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Of this? I think it will go around a velo(?), because the real book cost seventy-eight paisa; paper is about forty paisa. So paper, whether you buy one or one lakh, it's the same. Printing is about thirty-eight paisa. And out of thirty-eight paisa, plate-making and all will come to about ten paisa.

Prabhupāda: Plate is already made.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): Things are going very good for our movement here. Other day I was with one Air India officer, and I told him, "Why don't you attract more tourists and show pictures of Hare Kṛṣṇa and what our activities in India?" To attract more tourists by giving our activities in India. They said we will discuss. They will be discussing with me in the... And of course I will take Girirāja and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. And one school which is a very famous school in Bombay, center of the city where all the affluent people are staying—that school is very big school, good school—they have agreed that once in a week we can give you forty-five minutes to your...

Prabhupāda: Saṅkīrtana.

Guest (2): Saṅkīrtana. So this I will be discussing with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. And there are about 1500 students in that school from...

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana can be performed. So the movie, how long it is?

Bhavabhūtī: It's a one and a half hour movie, and we're in about eight minutes of it.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Eight minutes. Showing our books? That I want. Let them read our books. Then they'll understand what we are.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.

Rāmeśvara: But one recent development which will change that is that they have appealed to the government that they are an educational group. Therefore they should be tax exempt like any other educational organization, and the government has agreed. Now they have gotten their tax exemption, so now these parents can donate lots of... Different people will start donating lots of money to them as tax write-offs. So I think that we will see that their activities will be expanded this year, because now they are tax exempt, they'll get a lot of money.

Hari-śauri: That news article said that someone had given them $105,000. Some parents of a cult...

Prabhupāda: No, there are rich parents. They can do that. And every parent is unhappy. (chuckles)

Rāmeśvara: The fighting will increase this year. It's getting very acute, as you said in that letter.

Prabhupāda: So they are feeling the strength of Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That requires education, training. You have become a lawyer not in one day. You have been trained up. Then you are lawyer. Similarly, everyone has to be trained up how to become perfect servant, but he must agree in the beginning that "Now I shall become servant of Kṛṣṇa." Then everything is there. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭhā tato ruciḥ tataḥ athāsaktiḥ tato bhavaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). These are the different stages. Ādau śraddhā: "Yes. Now Kṛṣṇa says, 'You surrender.' I'll surrender. I believe in this, firmly believe." Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. This śraddhā means when you firmly believe that "Kṛṣṇa will give me all protection if I surrender." And that is the beginning of śraddhā.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Tato vakṣyāmi te hitam.

Prabhupāda: Tato vakṣyāmi te hitam. This is the confidential knowledge. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (Brs. 1.1.11). You simply act favorably to Kṛṣṇa. Then agreed: "Yes, I shall fight." Because he understood that "I have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not my whims. I was thinking of my whims, that 'They are my family members. Why shall I fight? Why you are putting me this proposal? So on, so on, so on...' " That... What is that verse? Find out that kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). There. There you'll find. Agreed. "Yes." In the beginning he disagreed. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat prasādān madhusūdana, kariṣye vacanam. Naṣṭo mohaḥ. After so much instruction, if his moha is not dissipated, then what is the use? So he said naṣṭo mohaḥ. You could not find?

Hari-śauri: What's the first line?

Prabhupāda: Naṣṭo! Why don't you find? You. Give him. He'll find. Why don't you give to Pradyumna?

Hari-śauri: Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā?

Prabhupāda: Ha!

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Their famous phrase was "The white man's burden."

Prabhupāda: Unless they made such propaganda, how they could stay? They must give some plea that "I am staying for their benefit." That was the propaganda all through. And any Indian who would agree to say in the League of Nations and when there is conference, "Yes, we are so much benefited," he would be made secretary, governor. The flatterer, he would be made governor.

Rāmeśvara: So they kicked the British out, but they still have the British system.

Prabhupāda: They have learned this. They have been accustomed... And by nature they are not, I mean to say, dovetailed to this system of life.

Hari-śauri: Somehow or another, they just can't do it. They can't live like that.

Prabhupāda: And now we are going to Kumbha Mela, a religious assemble. In the Western countries you don't find so much.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all. One of the first-class rascal in darkness is your Darwin. He's in favor of Darwin's theory. Another first-class demon is that Freud. (laughter) These are the guides of the modern civilization. Anthropomorphism. No? What is called?

Gargamuni: Anthropology?

Prabhupāda: Anthropology.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Gauḍīya Matha. Gauḍīya Matha.

Gargamuni: Yes. Because no one is maintaining, and he has no followers, and, he knows, when he dies then there's nothing. So he was interested. And not only him, but his supporters were also pushing him to sign it over, and they had agreed. But then the war broke out, and I left, and I think a lot of them have been killed who were his main finance backers. He had some lawyers and doctors who were donating, but I think they have all been killed. So now he has no one. So recently some of our men have gone to Dacca for visa to come back, and he's still interested, more so now.

Prabhupāda: He's not killed.

Gargamuni: No. He survived.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Long life.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why American patronize Pakistan?

Gargamuni: Because... Against Russia. India is with Russia. And China... Also the Pakistanis... When I was in Pakistan, they have great love for the Chinese people. When I was there it was more than the Americans. They liked the Chinese more than the Americans. 'Cause I went to the Karachi University 'cause I thought we could start some preaching there. So I met the professor of philosophy and he had agreed that we could give some lecture, but not on Indian culture but on yoga or something. So the students there were very much... They liked the Chinese. They were always talking, "Oh, China." So China is also opposed to Russia. So in this way the sides were taken. But it's a hellish place there. It's all sand.

Prabhupāda: Karachi.

Gargamuni: Yes. Very hot. We used to get our fruit... There was no place where we could eat, so we used to buy fruit and nuts at the Empress Market, very big market.

Prabhupāda: Dacca.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: And they say you can understand a person not by hearing his words but by catching the thoughts from his mind. These people report that kind of experience, that they can understand another man from his thoughts even before he speaks. But the most fantastic thing of all, which I'm not clear about, is they have a description... Almost every person that they interviewed had the same experience of a very bright light. Now this is the way they describe it. "The first appearance of this light is very dim, but rapidly it gets brighter and brighter until it reaches an unearthly brilliance." Every person agreed that this light was actually a living being and it had a definite personality. It was emanating a feeling of warmth and friendship, and it was asking them questions. And it describes the two main questions: "Are you ready to die?" "What have you done with your life to show me? What have you done with your life that is sufficient?" And then it goes on to say that all these people felt that this being who appeared to be like a luminous being was concerned with two things: how they had developed love and how they were searching for knowledge. Every one of them had this same description of a being of light. A luminous being.

Prabhupāda: That is fact. Because we are part and parcel of God, therefore there is illumination.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Thieves, rogues and plunderers. That's all.

Hari-śauri: Detroit has the highest murder rate in the world, 'cause all the city population is black.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we could purchase that palace which costs six million dollars fifty years ago. And we have got for three hundred thousand. Why? Nobody was purchasing. Who will go to purchase there? I took it. "Yes it is..." I offered him... He was asking 350,000. So I told him, "I'll pay you cash, all three hundred." He immediately agreed. (laughs) I should have offered him less. He would have agreed. Nobody was purchasing.

Hari-śauri: Yes, we could have got it for half...

Prabhupāda: So he immediately agreed. Anyway, that's a very nice place. You have seen?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very nice place, unique palace.

Hari-śauri: Yes, a very good center.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Very nice building. We haven't got such building anywhere. On the waterside, big, big rooms, very nicely decorated, aristocratic, really aristocratic, really aristocratic. How many devotees are living there?

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: We shall do it. I am searching after some astronomer.

Rāmeśvara: There is also a review from one Indian professor, how this science...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they have become interested in our literature.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Whether he completely agrees or not, he's fascinated by it.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But...

Rāmeśvara: From Dr. Jagadish Sharma. He wrote that "This edition of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will go a long way to help the scientists in rediscovering phenomena of the universe which is yet to be discovered."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Then, in years to come, like five years, ten years, twenty years, how will we be able to keep up our relationship with the universities that we have now? Now they think highly of us, that we've published these books, and they've written all these reviews that "This is a great contribution." We won't be able to... Well, they'll just have them in their libraries, and then we'll switch fields. We'll go to the common man.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm. Let them... If the university authorities agree to teach students...

Satsvarūpa: Text orders.

Prabhupāda: The text order. That will be nice.

Satsvarūpa: Yes I have some of those from the United States. Here is one. Twenty-two Bhagavad-gītās was ordered on December lst.

Prabhupāda: That will be nice. Let them introduce as text for studying by the students.

Satsvarūpa: That we can still push.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A new batch of students will come-new books will be sold. Text books.

Hari-śauri: Every new batch...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: "Although celestial beings are not visible to the naked eyes of the inhabitants of this earth, it was due to the influence of Mahārāja Parīkṣit that the demigods also agreed to be visible. The kings used to spend lavishly during such sacrifices as the cloud distributes rains. A cloud is nothing but another form of water, or, in other words, the waters of the earth transform into clouds. Similarly, the charity made by the kings in such sacrifices are but another form of the taxes collected from the citizens. But as the rains fall down very lavishly and appear to be more than necessary, the charity made by such kings also seems to be more than what the citizen needs. Satisfied citizens will never organize agitation against the king, and thus there was no need of changing the monarchial state. Even for a king like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was needed a spiritual master for guidance. Without such guidance one cannot make progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master must be bona fide, and one who wants to have self-realization must approach and take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master to achieve real success.

(text 4)

nijagrāhaujasā vīraḥ

kaliṁ digvijaye kvacit

nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdraṁ

ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā

(translation) "Once when Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on his way to conquer the world, he saw the master of Kali-yuga, who was lower than a śūdra, disguised as a king and hurting the legs of a cow and bull. The King at once caught hold of him to deal sufficient punishment." (purport) "The purpose of a king's going out to conquer the world is not for self-aggrandizement. Mahārāja Parīkṣit went out to conquer the world after his ascendance on the throne, but this was not for the purpose of aggression on other states. He was the emperor of the world, and all small states were under his regime. His purpose in going out was to see how things were going on in terms of the godly state. The king, being the representative of the Lord, has to execute the will of the Lord duly. There is no question of self-aggrandizement. Thus as soon as Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw that a lower-class man in the dress of a king was hurting the legs of a cow and bull..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...there the injunction of the śāstra, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. Cow should be protected. Kṛṣṇa said, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say chāgala-rakṣya or hog-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. So it is the duty of the king or the state or the government to give protection to the cows. This is śāstric injunction. But nowadays neither the state or government is giving protection to the cow. They are becoming implicated with so many problems. I heard that India again is now slaughtering cows.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: You are also fanatical. Why do you believe Lenin? You are fanatical in our eyes. You are worse than fanatical because we have got great other authorities—they believe Kṛṣṇa is God. You have created a section recently, but we have got evidences from thousands and thousands of years ago, authorities believing Kṛṣṇa. Our literatures are very old. Your literature recently made.

Gargamuni: Sometimes, though, they may agree philosophically about Kṛṣṇa, but then they will bring in Kṛṣṇa's controversial personal life. They always do this.

Prabhupāda: Personal life?

Gargamuni: They bring in about, always about the gopīs and Kṛṣṇa.

Gurukṛpā: They just did that recently in Honolulu.

Gargamuni: Philosophically they may agree. But then they will go and attack Kṛṣṇa's...

Gurukṛpā: Character.

Gargamuni: His character.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: How many men?

Pṛthu-putra: We will be about ten.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He has agreed to...?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, he has agreed.

Prabhupāda: Ask him to have tilaka always.

Pṛthu-putra: That, that boy who came.

Prabhupāda: No, that man who came. Ask that...

Pṛthu-putra: To wears always tilaka. He has the kaṇṭhi-mālā, but I don't...

Prabhupāda: No tilaka.

Pṛthu-putra: No tilaka.

Satsvarūpa: He does not wear tilaka.

Prabhupāda: So he must have tilaka. You ask him, "First of all have tilaka." You see. Otherwise we'll not take.

Satsvarūpa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Pṛthu-putra: Because I went to some universities. They have big, big universities in Cairo and in every places in North Africa, because now they try to be educated. The white Africans, they have some intelligence to understand to a certain extent philosophy, because when I was talking about the Bhagavad-gītā, when I showed the table of contents, they more or less agreed to take interest in it because they didn't see anything specific about another religion, another God. They were seeing the titles like "Confidential Knowledge," "Transcendental Knowledge," "Karma-yoga," "Jñāna-yoga." They are very interested about knowing these things.

Prabhupāda: That is good the first, beginning, let them come. Let them sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and take prasāda. In Iran we are doing that. Gradually it is becoming interesting. You had been in our Iran, Tehran?

Pṛthu-putra: I went there also some time, long time ago. But Iran is a different concept. They're not so strict about following the Koran. For example, these Arabic countries like Algeria, Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia, they don't recognize Iran like being part of them. Iran and Turkey and Afghanistan they think is another Muslim world. For example, in Iran there is much more Sufis, the different... But in these Arabic countries like Egypt, they're really conservative. They're very strict.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Conservative means fanatical.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll do the same thing, same lecture as I gave, similar style. He had all the copies. We made very many colorful slides and transparencies. So that we speak just like any other professional speakers in science.

Prabhupāda: No, you can..., every right to speak. You are qualified scientist. All doctor, they must agree to hear you, cannot deny.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And our mathematician is very good. He's also got some good artistic ideas. He told me that he started some arts.

Prabhupāda: So he's a mathematician and another (sic:) physist, and you are chemist. So complete science. The pure science is mathematics, physics, and chemistry. So our three Ph.D.s, they are combination of pure science. Nobody can defeat. Mathematics is there, physics is there, chemistry is there. And my sentiment is this, (laughs) I challenge them, "No. Life from life, not matter." So perhaps I challenged first. Or anybody? Then life from life, not from matter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda did it.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This professor of mine, he was very much against at the beginning of the theory. Then, when I gave this lecture, he invited me for home, in his home, and his wife supported our theory, so he came around, saying that "Yes, science says earth is only 4.5 billion years old, and there are so many defects. So they have to accept that "No, we cannot be correct." So people are coming around slowly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra, vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra; (CC Adi 8.15) "Just see what kind of merciful is Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and if you consider it perfectly, you'll see it it wonderful." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. "Oh, here is Caitanya." Caitanya. Caitanya means living force. He says, vicāra, "Just try to understand by logic, by philosophy, by argument." That is vicāra. We are not following Caitanya Mahāprabhu blindly. That is not our position. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna argued with Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. At last, he accepted, "Yes." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram: (BG 10.12) "You are the Supreme Person. The rascals, they do not understand Your personality, but Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, they have accepted, and I also see. Therefore, whatever you say, I agree. That's all" This is experiment. Arjuna did not accept Kṛṣṇa blindly. He knew, but for our sake he gave so many arguments. At last, he accepted. We have to follow Arjuna. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody's educated now. In America...

Prabhupāda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That's all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Education... University student was informed that "Next birth you may become a dog," so he said, "What is the wrong there?" This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.

Satsvarūpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can't be changed. But the people...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: It requires powerful influence in the society to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If the leaders of the society, they agree. They are barking like dogs in the United Nation. They should take rightly the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then everything will be all right. They're simply barking like dogs. What benefit is there? What benefit people have derived from the United Nation? Nothing. So if they want actually world peace, world unity, they must take the formula given by Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. Because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so our duty is to convince that "You are uselessly wasting your time for unity, for benefit of the human... You take this. You'll be happy." We are safe. We have taken to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet shelter. There is no doubt. But... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He said that "I am quite happy. I have no problem. But I am thinking of these rascals." Tato vimūḍha-cetasa indriyārtha: "They have made the whole aim of life sense gratification." Indriyārtha. "And for that purpose, a few years, they're making huge arrangement, how we shall become happy?" And next life a dog. It is risky. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we should try to save them. That is the duty. But this civilization as it is going on is very risky. They do not know how nature's law is working, how he's going to be a dog next life. He does not know. Mūḍho nābhijānāti. To save the mass people from falling down to the repetition of birth and death, that is welfare activity. To save them by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have to keep this ideal at least, varṇāśrama, that "Here is the position."

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sometimes we find a dilemma in preaching, in the sense that if we preach very vigorously we invoke the attention of the authorities. That is to say, if we were to preach a little less vigorously, there might be less objection, but then again there would be the less benefit because we would not be preaching as vigorously. It's very hard to know sometimes just how forcefully to preach.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not to satisfy the authorities. We have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He wanted to satisfy his family members, but Kṛṣṇa did not like that. Then He preached him Bhagavad-gītā, and then Arjuna agreed, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). So it is the duty of the devotee to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not the public.

Brahmānanda: In our Back to Godhead magazine now the tendency is that they're not mentioning Kṛṣṇa's name so much. They're not putting the picture of Kṛṣṇa. They're not putting the pictures of the devotees. They're stressing on like simple, natural life in order to please the public.

Prabhupāda: No. Why this is going on?

Satsvarūpa: Probably because of this reasoning, that... They use this phrase, that "We have to make Kṛṣṇa consciousness more conventional, and with the shaved heads and pictures of Kṛṣṇa, people won't like it." So they've taken to this description of simple life, vague talk of spiritual life, reincarnation, meditation.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your duty, not us. You have to prove it. (break) And now don't go to the court with any other dress. Preach like this. Preach there with this dress. Have they any objection with this dress?

Hari-śauri: In this dress.

Ādi-keśava: I agree. I think it is very good that they see us dressed like this in court.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we should...

Ādi-keśava: They will understand what we are.

Prabhupāda: We shall...

Hari-śauri: We have to represent our religion properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A priest will not put on a suit.

Ādi-keśava: In fact one time... Even the last time I went...

Prabhupāda: No, whatever is done, done. Now you make a difference. In any case, we shall go in this dress.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is true.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Army has taken it up now.

Prabhupāda: He has not any new writings?(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had one, but I heard that they had some difficulty in preparing it. (indistinct) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the leaders agree, organize it. Then others take it. We can begin there this varṇāśrama program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are you planning to go there, to Manipur?

Prabhupāda: I shall expect to go. It requires...

Hari-śauri: Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: No, on our part.

Hari-śauri: That's not... The traveling there is not the strain. It's doing the programs and seeing so many people. That's a big strain.

Prabhupāda: That is not... Strain is traveling.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Should Brahmānanda and I try to get some visas also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja, he is also coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not coming. We have to leave at least one of the sannyāsīs there to watch everything. Especially now if Sudāmā Mahārāja comes with the theater, then... I just told... I spoke to Sudāmā on the phone just now. So I told him that "The condition on which you can come is that Dhṛṣṭadyumna has to agree to stay in New York for the two weeks, because it's too much responsibility to be left alone without anybody in charge."

Prabhupāda: Our temple is always crowded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In New York? Oh, all the time. Especially on weekends, it's very crowded. Because of the restaurant and all the different programs that are going on there, there's always people coming in. We have many different activities.

Prabhupāda: The neighborhood men, they don't like it?

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is your, your practical ex...? You are rascal. You have no practical experience. If there is life in the water, if there is life in the air, if there is life within the earth, why not in the fire? It is also one of the elements. Why you discard only fire? There are five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. So if there is life in the earth, in the water, in the air, in the ether, what fire has done there should be no life?

Hari-śauri: But we see. The water's here. The earth's here. We see the life in there. We agree.

Prabhupāda: Your seeing is imperfect.

Hari-śauri: But the fire is here, and there's no life in the fire.

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot see. That is your imperfect... You should conclude from the general experience, that "Here there is life; there must be... We cannot." But what do you see? Just like they have taken photograph. What is that photograph? Suppose if you take a photograph of the ocean, can you see any life? The life is within. What is the use of your photograph? Your everything is imperfect. You cannot say anything final. And you are imperfect, your senses are imperfect; whatever you have got, that is imperfect. If Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham, then Kṛṣṇa is there.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is not force. It is no...

Satsvarūpa: Let me remain in stool.

Prabhupāda: We are preaching. It does not mean that we are forcing. We are saying that "Your brain is in stool. Wash it like this. If one agrees, he does it. Not that in our movement all world has joined. One who is intelligent, he has agreed, 'Yes.' I am not forcing. If I would have possessed that forcive power, what right you have got to bring me in the court? You are forcing me to stop this. You are forcing. Nobody can force, but you are forcing." You should take this argument and expose them at least in the court, licking of the vagina civilization, like dog. Yes animals do that.

Ādi-keśava: I think the more strongly we preach in this way, that we don't try to give in and compromise...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Ādi-keśava: The more that everyone will hear about this issue...

Prabhupāda: We must expose them, that's all. This is our business. This is a good opportunity in the court, so that it will be published. People will know what is our philosophy. Licking of vagina civilization, this. Publish.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: The scientist is pouring chemicals, and from this chemical come all these colorful varieties. That wasn't clear.

Rāmeśvara: No one will believe it. Their idea was that... Anyway, I agree. It was a mistake. This issue that's at the printer right now has many pictures of Kṛṣṇa in it. It's a big improvement.

Prabhupāda: So do it very conscientiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's time for everybody to take lunch prasāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, go.

Brahmānanda: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everyone in India responsible. That is Indian culture still.

Rādhā-vallabha: Should... When they agree at this young age, they should wait till they get older, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally a girl attains puberty at fourteen years, thirteen years. In India because it is tropical climate... I think in Western countries they attain puberty not before fifteen, sixteen years. So although a girl is married before puberty, she is not allowed to go to the husband until she has attained puberty. Formerly, in our days also, after attaining puberty there is another second marriage. Then the husband and wife live together.

Rādhā-vallabha: Is there a minimum age for the man?

Prabhupāda: No. That is... Minimum age means generally the husband must be older than the wife, at least five years' difference.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...the varṇāśrama established, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-division, scientific division of the society. Ideal state. Just like the legislative assembly. They should be composed of men with complete brahminical culture. And the ministers, president, they should be kṣatriya, and the productive, vaiśyas, and balance śūdra, worker. Unless an ideal class of men is on the top of the state to give advice—just like Britishers, they assemble Parliament—there cannot be any improvement to the human society. All nonsense and rascals, simply by votes go to be member of the Parliament. They assemble. What they know? What they'll do? The whole world is mismanaged because there is no brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindā... I am proposing this because Kṛṣṇa consciousness means namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. That must be... The state must be in favor of brahminical culture and cow protection. Then everything will be all right. So Manipur is small state. If they agree, the leaders of the... It is not politics. It is betterment of the situation. And without brahminical culture, all these third-class, fourth-class, loafer class, simply by votes hooks and crooks and becomes president, Nixon and so on. Where is the betterment? It will never be.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Then that is all right. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then we started talking about the concept of life. So he would say that life is just combination of molecules, and I started asking questions because I knew all, what he was doing. I was following his papers. But he didn't know what he was doing. Then it came up to the point that he agreed to the limitations that we have in so many words that we say, but actually it's not true.

Prabhupāda: He admitted.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But still, he said that this is the best theory that they have at this time. So this is the only time they get the chance of doing something, so they want to continue whether it comes out right or wrong, but just some sort of a game.

Hari-śauri: They can't afford to lose their grants.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said in about twenty years...

Prabhupāda: Again time, time-taking. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Again time, time-taking. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the matter is completely to be decided. He said, "Either religion wins or we win." He said, "It will be decided pretty soon." I think it is already decided, because we promised about ten years ago that those chemicals, if we make those, then we'll have life in a test tube. But actually we have all those chemicals made. So I said, "We have the know-hows. We have the equipments. We have all the chemicals. But still we can't do it." So that means it's...

Prabhupāda: It is failure. You cannot do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in principle he agreed that science plays...

Prabhupāda: And Bhagavad-gītā clearly said, it is different thing completely. It is not matter. Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Where is that thing which cannot be cut into pieces? Bring that, any scientist. Bring that thing which cannot be cut by scientific method. Bring that thing which cannot be burned. That is stated. Find out the verse. You cannot neglect the statement of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then it is... But still, they should be encouraged. Why they should...? If they do not like, that is another thing. But our translation work, printing work, cannot be stopped. That is my request.

Hṛdayānanda: I don't think it will stop.

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. You agree, all GBCs? All GBCs?

Rāmeśvara: We made a resolution that Jayatīrtha would go there initially, and then, after a few months, Ātreya Ṛṣi would go there to give him some advice for his financial problems. One of the reasons that the devotees are feeling pressure is lack of money, or bad money management.

Prabhupāda: No, that is a good, good idea.

Brahmānanda: Also, Bhagavān would go to America and spend one month to see how things are being managed there, because he has not been there for four years.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Kīrtanānanda: I'd like to say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we discussed it for some time today, discussing this. And initially at least, it was the feeling of the GBC that he should change zones.

Prabhupāda: So, he has agreed?

Kīrtanānanda: That he should go to the Midwest of the US where we could have used him very much.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very good arrangement.

Satsvarūpa: As for Jayatīrtha, he will keep England in his zone, but he is also going to take a zone in the United States, which he finds that he can travel to without much difficulty, which is the Mid-West of the United States, including Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, and a little center, Ann Arbor.

Prabhupāda: So you have all agreed to. That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: Harikeśa Mahārāja will mostly retain the same zone of Eastern European countries, Germany, Switzerland and Scandinavian countries.

Prabhupāda: So you have discussed Hare Kṛṣṇa, er, Harikeśa's activities, reviewed? It is all right?

Rāmeśvara: No. That is yet to be discussed under saṅkīrtana techniques.

Gargamuni: The techniques?

Prabhupāda: Not techniques. On the whole... He's the...

Kīrtanānanda: Jayatīrtha gave us a report.

Jayatīrtha: I gave very good reports. I had a very good experience as far as...

Prabhupāda: He is, after all, new appointed, so you have to study how things are going on.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Gargamuni: He's generally engaged in export of the cloth of Māyāpur and business work, which actually he's more suitable for, whereas Śatadhanya...

Prabhupāda: So you have all agreed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If you have agreed, I have no objection.

Rāmeśvara: We didn't discuss it with him, though, to see what his personal feeling...

Prabhupāda: So do. So do that. Do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Before posting it, it should be discussed.

Prabhupāda: Do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His feelings should not be...

Prabhupāda: No. Everyone should remain in jubilation. That is wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jubilation.

Prabhupāda: You cannot make depressed. No, that is not good.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Satsvarūpa: So today the presidents had their meeting and they went over all our resolutions. This year it went very smoothly. They finished their whole meeting in a couple of hours. The president of the meeting was Girirāja. And they made some amendments to our proposals. I don't think I have to read all of them. Some of them are just minor adjustments. But some of them are... One was... We read the other night that we would not do the Santa Claus dress any more for saṅkīrtana, but they changed that at their meeting. They felt that the publicity was not actually so detrimental around the world, and that the advantage for book distribution and collecting was very great. So they said, "Do it." And then we had our final meeting this afternoon, the GBC, to review their meeting, and we agreed this time with them. But we put an amendment on it that they could dress in Santa Claus or other costumes only after getting permission from the local authorities by permit to do that. So there wouldn't be illegal.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: People are in darkness. To keep them like dogs, hogs, camels, and take vote from them and become a leader... Nobody protested that we call all the men dogs, hogs, camels. Nobody came forward, that "You are using very strong words." It's a fact.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They agree.

Hṛdayānanda: They were applauding your lecture last night.

Prabhupāda: Our Tamāla Kṛṣṇa appreciated very much.

Hṛdayānanda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I loved that lecture.

Hṛdayānanda: It was wonderful last night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told Prabhupāda the lecture was like atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He told like that.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have to take the proper... (break) ...is not good. You should avoid it.

Girirāja: I think it was Kṛṣṇa's grace.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Girirāja: Actually she is... Now the mayor, the mayor is scheduled for tomorrow, but he had agreed without checking his diary, and he has to come earlier, so what my idea is that he wants to come at five o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So where he will be best.

Girirāja: Yes. So what I was thinking is that he could stop here for a few minutes and meet you. Actually his term expires on March 31st.

Prabhupāda: When the chief minister or something like that?

Girirāja: Chief minister is coming on Tuesday, on Rāma-navamī.

Prabhupāda: But I am going to Juhu on Monday, is it not?

Girirāja: Well, we were originally thinking you could go on Wednesday, but...

Prabhupāda: Oh. If they have arranged. I do not know what is your arrangement.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It should be recorded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't have my cassette with me.

Prabhupāda: You keep one assistant, to record you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I pointed out the mistakes, the defects that we have in scientific studies, and he thought very carefully and he agreed to the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes, any intelligent man should agree to the right point.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what we were doing. That was the...

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Childish. A child does not know what he is doing. That is the difference between a child and elderly man. Yesterday there was sufficient crowd, I think.

Śrīdhara: There was nice crowd, all respectable men also. Tonight it will be bigger.

Gargamuni: Sunday is always the biggest.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Well, family, that is alright. But even sometimes a father does not like the son, although it is the family. Or the son does not like the father. So what is the wrong there? They must agree to the point that of the same interest. So those who are interested in permanent, I mean to say, life, why they should be interested in this temporary so-called adjustment? (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The goal of life is different. Those who accuse us, they don't know that goal.

Prabhupāda: Nobody knows goal. Everyone is living like animal. Many other goal. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is the modern civilization. They do not know what is the goal of life. And without knowing the goal of life, they are trying to adjust things on this material platform. That will never happen. Durāśayā. Now suppose this race... On the road we see so many four-wheel cars racing. Does it mean this will solve the problems of life? What is the difference? If the dog is running and I am also running in a four-wheel car, so where is the difference? (Hindi) What is the difference? Is that advancement of civilization because I am in a four-wheel Mercedes car and the dog is running on the street? He will also die, I will die, and he will have to change, he'll also change body, I have to change body. Next life, I may be a dog like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). My problem is how to stop this business, how to get my real life.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: I told him that you had agreed to wait to meet him. He said "This is wonderful. I have been pining for his darśana."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This guy?

Girirāja: He said, "Now we must have rāma-rājya." He said, "That is why I must meet your Guru Mahārāja before I go back to Delhi tomorrow."

Prabhupāda: Yes. I can give him... (break)

Girirāja: So I told him I would meet him at the rally. They are hawing a rally at Shivaji Park. And he invited me to sit on the dais, but I don't know if this is a good idea for us.

Prabhupāda: Why not? He is honoring you.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is serious, but nobody has taken it seriously. Bhagavad-gītā is popular book. Everyone takes the Bhagavad-gītā and says, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." It is very simple thing. And if the leaders of the society, they set example, others will follow.

Mr. Rajda: Correct. That's correct. Serious effort should be made. Only lip service will not help. That is correct. No, I fully agree, and we shall definitely apply our mind to that. I am connected with this or I came into contact with this movement when the Juhu temple was demolished, and at that time, under standing committee and ten set of demands.(?) Ah, yes. Then Girirāja and some friends had come to me for cooperation.

Prabhupāda: So you have given a great service. Now it is not only demolished, it is standing there.

Mr. Rajda: No, it is standing and very nice temple.

Prabhupāda: So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise... There is a Bengali song, māyār bośe jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves... That's... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: Yes, yes...

Prabhupāda: No let us first of all meet some of the subordinate worker. When they agree, then we will have...

Mr. Rajda: That meeting could be arranged any time. Whenever it is convenient to you, you can, we can talk to him.

Prabhupāda: No, I am..., my life is dedicated for this purpose. I am... It is convenient for me at any time. Otherwise, I am not keeping good health at the moment. Still, I have come. I am just trying even up to the last moment of my life, if I can deliver some good to these people. That is my determination. What is this life? Life will end today or tomorrow or day after. But if you live just to the point, that is the idea. Otherwise trees are also living thousands of years. What is the benefit?

Mr. Rajda: Morarji Desai meeting we can arrange any time. Will it be possible, suppose I go there and fix up time and telephone over there?

Indian (2): Yes. You can give my card and telephone number

Mr. Rajda: All right, all right. That will be arranged.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is not a sectarian. It is full of... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So it is practically proved, how they are taking Bhagavad-gītā. So it is science. It is actually life. So why not practice in India? It is not that everyone will be able, but there must be an exemplary sect. People may see that there is ideal. That we can do. India it is easier, because those who are born in India, constitutionally they have got that tendency. Simply we have to channelize. Then everything will be... So there is a good chance. Now the government has changed. They are after something very good, and the direction is there. If you take it seriously, there will be no difficulty.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have made it complicated. Insufficient knowledge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have been misguided.

Prabhupāda: Misguided, yes. With rascal leader. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We would also have been misguided if we didn't meet Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the same area.

Prabhupāda: I never agreed to be misguide by these rascals. Perhaps I am the first man who protested against these authorized scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. Very strongly. Everybody is afraid except Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Frankly speaking, I never knew that the problem is this serious before I met Śrīla Prabhupāda. I never thought about this.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I took it so seriously. Every morning walk, I was, "Where is the scientist?" I thought "Here I have got an opportunity to impress that will fructify in fruition." That was my aim. Therefore I was bothering you in so ways.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is very intelligent.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I even asked him to join this writing of our book, to contribute some chapters, and he agreed to that.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. He has given some service. It will not go in vain. (coughing)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had the greatest respect for Śrīla Prabhupāda. Every letter he wrote me, nothing but praise of Śrīla Prabhupāda, though he had some difficulty in getting along with some of the prabhus here. He wrote me something about those points, but he never said anything against Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. If one gets little prominence, other becomes envious. So it is so polluted. Mātsarya. So we have to adjust. (aside:) Give me my shirt. So take care of your health and circumstances. You have to adjust things according to... (long pause) If there is difficulty, his wife and children may come to Vṛndāvana.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. His family's more or less provided. They have...

Prabhupāda: They've got good position.

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're actually much better than any of the professional men.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We played caitanya-līlā in our younger days. So we brought one very famous man, Amritlal Bose. He is one of the three chief men who started theatrical performances in Bengal. Amritlal Bose, Girish Candra Ghosh, and one some Pathan. This Amritlal Bose was a big author also, for writing comic books. And very expert lecturer. So somehow or other, we contacted him, and we used to call him, (Bengali:) dādā-mahāśaya. Dādā-mahāśaya means grandfather. He was of our grandfather's age. In the evening he was drinking. Very luxurious. So when he came, he said, "Yes, I will give you direction. You are all aristocratic family. But you must know that what is the difference between this professional and this aristocratic family." So he explained that "Caitanya-līlā, in the public theater, anyone can pay eight annas." That eight annas was third-class ticket. Eight annas, one rupee, two rupees and five rupees. "So they can see Caitanya-līlā. Then where is the difference between your playing and their playing?" So he explained that "There must be some difference, that the public, after seeing your playing, they should appreciate so much that they will agree they will never see. So I want to train you like that. Are you prepared?" His first condition. So we were boys at the time... "Yes, sir. Yes. Whatever you say." Then he said, "Then I take charge of training you." So his next condition was that "You cannot play unless I say it is all right."

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Those who are visitors, they can see me. And for lecturing, on Sunday I shall lecture. You can fix up time, which time. But Sunday I shall speak from Bhāgavatam. This is general program. And if it is required some special, that is another thing. So what is the use of inviting visitors here?

Girirāja: I agree with that policy.

Prabhupāda: What do you think, Dr. Sharma?

Dr. Sharma: I agree. Very urgent or some special thing, then it can be done. Otherwise not, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: Generally, people come to visit: "How are you, how you are feeling?" And he takes half an hour even. So what is the use of wasting time like that, "How are you?" Everyone knows that I am not feeling well.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For that they can come in the morning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they actually want to see me, I am going there. They can see me. For half an hour, more than half an hour. And for talking... There is no need of talking "How are you? How you are feeling?" This is not talking.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is general program. And if there is some special, that we shall I am all right so long I am able to write. But I do not stop writing book unless I am not all right. So generally arrange like that, and specifically, we shall meet once daily, half an hour to one hour. There is no difficulty. But not continually people coming. That is bad.

Girirāja: I agree with that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, people respect that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It is not unusual that someone should have a program like that. Rather, they take advantage of your very, you know, compassion and mercy, but they used to come two or three hours every evening and sit.

Devotee: They'll appreciate it more. Now you are working on Tenth Canto, so you can stop seeing other people. They'll appreciate that. (break)

Prabhupāda: I think I shall be able to work from today. Now I have got very nice place, full freedom. So there will be no difficulty.

Girirāja: Actually, even coming at seven in the morning, you can begin that after some time if you want to rest more.

Prabhupāda: What is that, seven?

Girirāja: The program to come at seven in the morning, so if you want to gain more strength for some days, you can begin that program also after a few days.

Prabhupāda: After some time. No, I can go. Provided the lift is working. Otherwise I shall be obliged. What can be done?

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sharma: I think that science should be limited to people who have got Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Would you agree to that? You see in the beginning, when you select people for science, should you make it a prerequisite for admission that they should be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Maybe they will become better scientists, maybe they will not, you know, make atom bombs and destructive things if they were Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: I say to the scientists (indistinct) who as they say, life comes from chemicals. And I say that take some small egg. You can see, there are some substances like yellow substance and white substance. Analyze the chemicals and combine them and put in the incubator. You get one chicken. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, they say that life comes from chemicals. What is the answer?

Devotee: They say it is too complicated.

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know, and you are passing your remark that life comes from chemicals. Such a rascal you are. You do not know what is the thing, and still, you are declaring your knowledge. You are misleading people. And you are captured, you say, "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it by trying." What is this nonsense? All post-dated check. So these rascals should be stopped. Speaking all lies, propaganda. Let him go to hell, I don't mind. But why they are misleading others? That is the greatest harm they have done. We attack them only for this reason. Otherwise, individually, you go to hell. Who cares for you? But in the name of science and becoming a scientist, you are misleading others. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. You are blind rascal, and you are leading other blind men.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So what you are to go? Where you want to go?

Girirāja: So what I was thinking, if you agree, is to go to Delhi for a few days, and he could introduce me to the pious members of Parliament, and then we could organize a whole group, and I could bring them there.

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). They do not know how nature's law is working.

Gargamuni: These breezes are very nice here, better than, I think, in Māyāpur. Many breezes.

Prabhupāda: The sea breeze.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who do not subscribe, if they say "Five," shall we have to take it?

Mr. Koshi: No, I agree. I agree.

Prabhupāda: Then why...? What is this? This is nonsense. Two plus two equal to four. It will be accepted by everyone. Every scientist, every mathematician. And if by vote, secular state, "It is five" or "It is six," shall we have to accept it? We have to accept knowledge as it is. Why you say secular or not secular?

Mr. Koshi: No, I think it is a question of accepting a concept of...

Prabhupāda: No concept. It is science. It is not... Try to understand this. "Two plus two" is science. It is not concept.

Mr. Koshi: I know that. But let us look at it this way. You are saying that Kṛṣṇa is important, but somebody else says that somebody else is important.

Prabhupāda: If Kṛṣṇa is important, why shall He not be taken?

Mr. Koshi: If somebody else says that Jack is important...

Prabhupāda: Somebody. What is that somebody? Is he a scientist? Is he a philosopher? Is he advanced? Any loafer class man say anything.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Again why you are coming to renunciation? First of all come to the knowledge. First of all accept that within this body there is the active principle. Then whether it is required renunciation, no renunciation, that we shall discuss later on. First of all, we have to understand, as Kṛṣṇa says in the very beginning, that asmin dehe dehī. Within this body, there is the owner of the body. First of all try to understand. He is speaking on that subject matter. Dehī. Not on the deha. People should understand first of all this science. Then talk of other things. When we say "Two plus two equal to four," no scholar will deny it. "Yes, it is four." Nobody, no rascal will say, "No, it is five or three." Nobody will disagree, if it is science, if it is mathematics. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says within this body, the owner of the body. Who will deny it? Let them accept it. Then we shall discuss what is that owner, what is the nature of that owner. First of all let them accept it. They are accepting the machine as everything. Do you agree or not?

Mr. Koshi: Yeah, but who is the owner?

Prabhupāda: Ah. Yes. Machine, if you take the importance of the machine and not the machine driver, then what is your knowledge? If a dog is thinking "I am a bulldog, gow gow," and if a man is thinking "I am Indian, gow gow," what is the difference? He is embarrassed with the machine body, and he is also embarrassed with the machine body. The dog is jumping, monkey is jumping with a machine body, and if we also imitate jumping like the dog and the monkey, so what is the difference? The human being is to understand that "I am not this body." That is the first knowledge. That is the first principle.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Brainwashed." They say "brainwashed."

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So if he has already talked with Morarji, and he has agreed, then it is great advance.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Good advance.

Girirāja: He said he would be pleased to meet you. He gave a speech on the television last night.

Prabhupāda: Morarji?

Girirāja: Yes. In Hindi. I couldn't follow all of it, but there was a lot of reference to Gandhi and Gandhi's principles and the..., molding the character of youth. So I told Mr. Rajda—I was watching with Mr. Rajda in his house—that this is the real way to fulfill all of these goals, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Mr. Rajda said yes.

Prabhupāda: Then that television speech must be out in the paper.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we go to Srinagar I shall call. From Delhi to Srinagar...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not far. This evening Girirāja and myself saw Jaya Prakash Narayan in his hospital. I gave him your Hindi Bhāgavatam and Kṛṣṇa Conscious Movement and your Gītā Girirāja gave. He liked it very much. He inquired how much Bhāgavatam you have translated. He inquired where our temple is. We said Juhu. He said he would come here. Of course, he is very, very sick. And I asked him for an appointment that we could come and show him our movie. And he has agreed to even see our movie. So in one or two days we will show him the movie in the morning. And in the evening there were hundreds of people, so we only saw him for three or four minutes. He has agreed to see us again. And he wants to meet you, he said. So when he is okay he will come to see you.

Prabhupāda: Girirāja said that the Prime Minister also.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are also ready to...

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple, which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise the Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming I have been asking them...

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, any branch. Like this is more attractive, because a branch may be close to their house. They just go in and say, "Take this ten rupees and give to Rādhā-Rāsavihārī temple in Juhu." So the bank... I spoke to three banks. They agreed. So this condition also they must agree, because this will be a very novel way of getting donations in Bombay area. They do this in the south.

Guest (1): (name of a temple)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I cut that advertisement. I was very attracted when I saw it. Do you think it is a good idea?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It will be a very interesting meeting, to see if he is actually willing to take some action. He'll hear and he may agree, but whether he will act, that we will see.

Prabhupāda: He may not act. That will be (indistinct).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing I am already doing is I am starting to compile a list of those that we want permanent residence for. I told Bhavānanda this morning already that he should tell me the names of those people in Bengal who he feels are qualified to remain permanently. So that way if suddenly we get some opportunity, I'll have the list all ready to submit. To me, of course, I am a little bit, tend towards pessimism, but I think that that is something we could actually hope for from this government. It won't be difficult...

Prabhupāda: Let me work with these foreigners, because you have taught Indian independence, and they are not coming. Therefore these foreign boys, they are helping me. So let them remain. What harm they are doing? Let them have permanent residence helping me. Their life, money, everything, why don't you allow me? Unnecessarily they have to go away and come again.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "10) The property committee should also be consulted on leases." Up until now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have a property committee, consisting of Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, Jayatīrtha Prabhu, Ātreya Ṛṣi and myself. And we have always been consulted on all property purchases. But we now decided that we should also be consulted on property leases. Because leases are also very... They can be very disastrous also if they are improperly entered into. Especially any long-term leases. Of course, they also have to deal through their local GBC, but then they also deal with it practically. "11) It was noted that a total of $630,000 would be available for construction purposes between now and the end of 1977. $300,000 dollars is the minimum required for emergency US loans. This leaves $330,000 dollars for India. Of the $330,000 dollars, $240,000 is required to complete the pledge of one crore to Bombay. The balance should be available for the other projects in India, contingent on the Bombay project staying within its budget. That is $90,000." So this poses a problem which you partly solved already, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Surabhi Swami informed us that the original budget of a million dollars would be not sufficient, but it would reach more like one and a half million dollars. So this means that half a million dollars has to come from somewhere. So Gurukṛpā Mahārāja agreed to send 200,000 dollars. But still there will be a balance of about... Rāmeśvara said there is 100,000 left to send. So still there is going to be a balance of about 200 to 300,000 dollars needed. So we will have to find out where that can come from for finishing this Bombay project. "12) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was appointed to oversee the BBT monies sent to India. He will work in collaboration with the Indian GBC." That means when they send money from overseas to be spent here, they wanted me to see that it was properly spent, along with the GBC man of the local temple. "13) It is not the BBT's business to pay for publishing children's books."

Prabhupāda: No, not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "14) All foreign language editions of BTG will include a section of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."

Prabhupāda: Hm, that's nice.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now you have to do so many things. (laughs) Yes. Another burden. You have to do all these things. So how your preaching?

Girirāja: Very good. Haridāsa had gone to Poona, and in two days he made four life members, and he was getting a chance to meet some big people, so he asked me to come. It was very nice. I met one young man, about thirty years old. He's one of the nicest men I've met in a long time. He really agreed with everything we were saying, and he's...

Prabhupāda: Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Girirāja: Well, he agreed that the modern civilization is a failure and that people are not happy, that people were more happy before.

Prabhupāda: It is a dangerous civilization. You... You should... (pause) Dangerous civilization that labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many millions of years one gets the chance of becoming a human being, especially civilized and especially in India. They will bring the same. And Kṛṣṇa personally says that if this chance is missed and a person does not become God realized, then he again returns back to the..., to the... Today I am a prime minister. Tomorrow, if I become a dog... What is this civilization? And they will have to become. Nature's law we cannot avoid. And there is no question, "Why you are touching me? I am prime minister." Who cares for you? You have to take account of your activities, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So human life is so important, and we are simply wasting this valuable life with this temporary adjustment of so-called happiness or distress, big, big plans. Simply bluffing. Indira Gandhi, one daridrāṇaṁ hata(?): "Poverty drive away." Now she is poverty-stricken. "Oh, you want to drive away poverty? Now drive away your own poverty. Where is your position? How you can drive away? You do not dare to come out." Twelve nights. Within one day.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you can stay there. We have a good place.

Girirāja: He sent... I didn't bring them with me. He sent two of his books with a message, and he said that he wanted your blessing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you give them to me, we can write him a letter inviting him to come, thanking him for the books. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this telegram arrived. Remember that letter from Mahāṁśa requesting 75,000 rupees for his farming? So we've replied him. The letter's going to be given to you today for signing. First of all agree to the principle of the loan, then I'll give you... So a telegram arrived. "Please expedite letter dated 9/4/77."

Prabhupāda: So do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So still we should send him that letter. Okay. I think... I mean, there has to be a principle of loan. Otherwise... Apart from that, there wasn't any... (end)

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This may be... Make it comfortable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From now on, I'll... (break)

Prabhupāda: That is not possible in the dog. A human being can do. So this opportunity is there, and people are not giving them this opportunity. This is the greatest harmful civilization. They are keeping them in ignorance for that. Anyway, if people agree to take our guidance, we can change the face of the world. That is a fact. Whole world will be peaceful immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe a possible name for this could be "Kṛṣṇa: Messiaḥ of the Harijanas." 'Cause he published, "Who is..." They need a messiaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Every one of us messiaḥ. Anyone Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's the messiaḥ. Every one. Why one? All of us. Gaurāṅgera bhakta-gaṇe, jane jane śakti dhari, brahmāṇḍa tari saksi(?): "The devotee of Lord Caitanya, every one has so immense power that every one, they can deliver the whole universe." Gaurāṅgera bhakta-jane, jane jane śakti..., brahmāṇḍa tari... That is Gaurāṅga's men.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm going to request him to become a member of Bhaktivedanta Institute and put his name and degrees...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be little impressive.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he agreed or not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm going to request him today. I made a little preaching in Manipur. I took a Fairchild, our movies, all the Hare Kṛṣṇa movies, from Calcutta. I borrowed for a week.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took that little Fairchild projector.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Took the projector. And it has been raining so much, from Calcutta, Assam, and Manipur, it's almost flooded for the last three weeks, almost continuous rain.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Looks like the rainy season has come, but very untimely, a little too early. But it has been almost flooded.

Prabhupāda: It is cool now.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And Manipur is especially... Once I go to the family, and the family and the son, they agree, then I have, we have some authority on them to say that the boy is happening to properly..., and it is better that way, to have the agreement from the parents also, so that where they are fully engaged for lifelong, not just coming for some time and...

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...go away. I don't want to produce like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the opposite of the deprogramming problem in America. In America we have to take them forcibly from their...

Prabhupāda: Not forcibly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they are coming voluntarily, but, I mean, the parents are resisting. But here the parents are agreeing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found very interesting in the villages. I thought... I was planning to make programs very extensively in the week, but because of rain, it was...

Prabhupāda: In Manipur also there is rain.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ne, adopted son, that is a practice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America also, they have the foster home. The children are there, and parents may go and adopt some child.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. So that village gentleman, that place I liked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you have agreed to stay with him?

Prabhupāda: I would have been glad. Very nice foodstuff, very nice, clean, and he has got his fresh vegetables, like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old were you?

Prabhupāda: At that time I was ten years old. Or twelve years. Not more than twelve years. But I liked that place very much. They still presented the foodstuff, fresh. I have been many... Not many. In the village so tasteful, fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, and they cooked so nicely. Nice milk. Everything very nutritious. That life is gone. What is this nonsense life, hanging in the daily buses, outside. Kṛṣṇa advises to live village life, agriculture, and utilize time for understanding your spiritual life. That is... So we are trying to introduce this, this farm life. (break) Out of so many other living entities, he tried to give me trouble. How you can check?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that... That we have to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See otherwise.

Prabhupāda: How it can be... This money must be reserved for scientific propaganda, twenty thousand rupees. They have agreed to save half, and half is twenty thousand. This must be saved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Somewhere between fifteen and twenty thousand.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I asked him offhand how much he thought he could save. He said, "I think I could reduce the expenses by half."

Prabhupāda: Half, this should be set aside for scientific...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll have to see if he... I mean, that was a very quick statement that he made on the telephone.

Prabhupāda: No...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But I'm just saying that on his behalf. I hope he can make it.

Prabhupāda: Now we have now Hindi books. So make nice propaganda. Because they supply from... All temple may be short. So we are also supplying some books for... So here we shall have to compensate by selling Hindi books. Or English books. We have to make some... Let Gargamuni be alert. If money's not coming from there, we shall have to supply money from here.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So arrange to receive them. Give them very kindly... If Acarya agrees, that will be great success.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So both you and Mahadevia together supply... This friend of Mahadevia...

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This facility, the space is the same. Mutual arrangement. And he gets the advantage of the roof.

Girirāja: Mrs. Warrior wants to move up.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: Mrs. Warrior wants to shift to a higher...

Prabhupāda: So he is in the downstairs?

Girirāja: She is on the ground floor.

Prabhupāda: Then it is... If she moves, that is also good. But that space is bigger.

Girirāja: Yes, Acarya's is much nicer place.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...sinful. And for this bluffing, they have spent millions, er, billions of...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It said thirty billion dollars just for that one episode. In the article the man says that many Americans already feel the same way he does, that it's a bluff.

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning I have said it is childish, 1958. I am not scientist. I have no... No, there are so many incidences. I never agreed, "It may be they have gone." They did not go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has very elaborately described how they faked everything. He gave in great detail how each part of the hoax was perpetrated. The thing is...

Prabhupāda: The Apollo, they were dying. They prayed to God. This is also artificial. Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our conclusion was that those three men who died were killed, that they never knew that there was a hoax while they were in training. Then, at the time when the spacecraft was going to take off they were told, "Now you're not going anywhere. This is only a hoax, so you have to act like this," and probably they did not want to. They refused. Therefore they were killed. We were discussing this yesterday, Gargamuni, Śrīdhara Mahārāja, Bali-mardana and myself. That was our conclusion, that those men must have been killed by the government.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise they'll disclose.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So my only point is, should we book any specific date until it from, here from Mr....?

Prabhupāda: No, you... Suppose tentatively we accept that we shall start a program on Sunday. In that way you book. So if Jetthi cannot come, then we shall wait. What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To me it's nothing, but they have to agree at the railway to change the booking.

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is no need of changing booking. We go there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, oh, we go, and we wait there.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that's all right. I have no... I mean... My point is that the longer we have to book, the better. Not that we change ten days...

Prabhupāda: No. Booking should be accepted any day is available.

Kārttikeya: We'll wait there only.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, that is everywhere. That is everywhere. Everywhere every Indian is Kṛṣṇa conscious. By force we are making them otherwise. That is going on.

Mr. Dwivedi: So whatever... Atomic forces or whatever forces of saints like you, but they take it... There will be that air, that something is automatically coming up.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) If you agree to cooperate with me, you'll see immediately. Because I want to deliver the real thing, therefore in my feeble health I am prepared to go. If one man can understand, that I want to see. I am traveling all over the world to see that at least one man may understand. They have spoiled the whole situation by misinterpreting, by malinterpreting, and by bringing some rascal and pose as leader. The whole world is spoiled. If you want to preach some rascal philosophy, you do. Why you take Bhagavad-gītā? That is cheating.

Mr. Dwivedi: If we can preach something genuine... This life is so small. What...? Why...? Why should we be after something which is adulterated? Why not preach genuine, if at all we preach?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation: Bogus Gurus -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So the cheaters are there. If our men are cheated, if they agree to be cheated, how can I stop them? In Vṛndāvana also they have done like that, the bābājīs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same way.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi is victim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rādhā-kuṇḍa. And in Vṛndāvana also. That Jagannātha dāsa was telling you, remember, how he met some bābājī coming on the road.

Prabhupāda: So there are cheaters, and if one wants to be cheated, how we can stop?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually this makes me feel that it's very important that we have our temple in Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: So you can publish this in our Back to Godhead. These things are going on. Devotees should be very careful not to be victimized by this cheater.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think I can write a letter to the "Letters to the Editors" column. That'll be the proper place.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is to be discouraged. What do you think?

Girirāja: I agree.

Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiṣṇavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vairāgya should be cultivated.

Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya. "Stop this!"

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused to see, what to speak of going there.

Girirāja: I agree with you.

Prabhupāda: Even big, big kings, Akbar, Mansingh, they used to, used to come to Rūpa Gosvāmī.

Girirāja: No, I agree with you completely.

Prabhupāda: Did... He demanded like that?

Girirāja: No. When I spoke to Mr. Rajda I said that the Prime Minister should come here, and Mr. Rajda agreed. But just now, when I... I just spoke to Gopāla. I was on my way to make the call. So he said that I should just ask you about this.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: I was just going to phone, and I mentioned to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu that I was going to make this call. So I said that, you know, the Prime Minister was going to be coming here, so he... And I said that I also, in the call I wanted to make that very clear so there was no mistake. And he said that, well, he might be too busy to come here and that he...

Prabhupāda: Gopāla said.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yeah. So I thought it would be better just to...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of.

Girirāja: Yeah. No, I agree completely. I mean, you're millions and billions of times greater than anyone, so there's no question...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, if one has no proper respect for a saintly person, he's useless man. You cannot have any benefit. Or neither he can derive any benefit.

Girirāja: Yeah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From all sides.

Girirāja: Because he'll think he has nothing to learn, that he is already in the best position.

Prabhupāda: And we don't require any from, anything from them, but for the whole human society's welfare we can suggest him, "Do like this." That is our... But we don't require anything from them.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All the devotees approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, thinking that "He must... The king will excuse him." He never agreed. "Oh, I cannot do that. If he has done something wrong, then let him..." Of course, he was saved and protected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu's good wish, but He never agreed. These are some of the examples that... Simply depend on Kṛṣṇa. But if they are actually respectful, we can ask them. There is... But if it is difficult job... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanām atha yoṣit... (CC Madhya 11.8). We cannot keep so strictly, but these are the principles taught by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Girirāja: So that principle about living together and salary...

Prabhupāda: That is...

Girirāja: That is meant to apply everywhere in the society.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is exploitation of the society.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But as soon as there is restriction, that means, "Don't do it." Otherwise naturally they have got sex desire. What is the use of giving shastric injunction? That means to control him. The meat-eating... So everyone has got tendency to eat meat, but why śāstra should agree? Restriction means stop. The government's opening liquor shop—so much restriction in a heavy duty. The government charges excise duty. The liquor is produced, utmost, one rupee, eight annas, per gallon. This I know. I know. And government charges excise duty, sixty rupees. So it becomes sixty-one rupees spoiled. Then they have got to make profit. Huge profit government... They haven't got to do anything. The liquor manufacturer, he has to maintain the establishment, and everything he has to do. But when the actual liquor comes, it is there. This is the working system. The excise inspector is there. So unless the... When he takes liquor out of stock, that excise inspector shall come. He has his own key, just like bank, such custody.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Then why you ask me? We have got in every country of Europe-England, Germany, France, Portugal, Spain, Rome, Sweden, everywhere.

German man: But the Pope is agreeing with you in Rome?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

German man: The Pope is agreeing?

Devotee (2): The Pope.

Prabhupāda: Pope.

German man: In Rome. He is agreeing with Hare Kṛṣṇa...?

Prabhupāda: But he agree or... Who cares for his agreement?

German man: With chanting and...

Prabhupāda: We don't care for anyone agrees or not. We push on. That's all. Do you think in India they agree Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person? Then? We don't care for them. We have to go forward. That is our business. If Kṛṣṇa agrees, that is all right. We don't care for anyone else, agrees or not agrees. If our master agrees—we are servant—that is our satis... We don't care for ordinary...

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I understood it long ago. It has been stayed, (?) Bombay, Vṛndāvana. So how you are going to guard yourself? That is the problem.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I... Your order that it be a trust property with lifetime trustees...

Prabhupāda: So now you are all here. Very cautiously and everything agree.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will protect it. At least the property will be protected.

Prabhupāda: You should be very much determined, strong-minded. Otherwise it will slip. Such huge property...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually these properties are the envy of all of India. They're the best properties in each place.

Prabhupāda: Not only property. Our prestige, our position... Everything is envied. Everywhere we are first class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's no rival.

Bhavānanda: There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was going on many years ago. Your Godbrothers were thinking like that. Mādhava Mahārāja...

Bhavānanda: Oh, yes. Oh, ready to jump.

Prabhupāda: Very strong management required and vigilant observation. (background whispering, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Bhavānanda) So you are foreign...

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Girirāja: And also for Māyāpur add him as a trustee.

Prabhupāda: Very good. So do it. His condition will take some time. He has agreed. Then he's gone to London.

Girirāja: Then for the bank accounts, the main fund is the ISKCON Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana fixed deposits and savings account. So we thought that the best thing would be to have a committee to oversee the spending of this money in terms of your desire. So we propose that the committee consist of Gurukṛpā Mahārāja, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, Jayapatākā Mahārāja, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa and myself.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Approved.

Girirāja: This would represent Gurukṛpā, who's collecting also the money, and Rāmeśvara.

Prabhupāda: I think you are all competent. Very good selection. Do it.

Girirāja: Then the persons who sign the checks, they would do so according to the decision made by the...

Prabhupāda: Of this committee.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But they have to observe the rules and regulations.

Brahmānanda: Yes. I told him that everything must be... There must be offerings throughout the day, at least three times a day, and then āratis performed morning and evening.

Prabhupāda: He has agreed?

Brahmānanda: Yes, he will do these things. They will do. With a wife they can do these things, bathing the Deity and so forth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gargamuni, Prabhupāda's inquired about Rādhā-Dāmodara. Jayaśacīnandana says he can't work there 'cause there's no electricity.

Rāmeśvara: No, he said he couldn't work there because it was too hot.

Prabhupāda: He could not work there?

Gargamuni: Well, during the day the electricity goes off all over Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So it is not that...

Gargamuni: It is not that he is turning it off.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Hindi)

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Cover you can get there, cover.

Gargamuni: In Bombay we might be able to do cover much cheaper and then the inside cheaper in Orissa. That we have...

Prabhupāda: Better quality also.

Gargamuni: It is good quality, similar quality. They agreed, they could get same paper as we had in previous books, but for printing cover that would be very difficult.

Prabhupāda: And tell, we can get from Bombay cover.

Gargamuni: Oh. But I had written you in the report that out of the first twenty thousand we have printed, still 18,500 are remaining.

Prabhupāda: So not selling?

Gargamuni: Because we have very few men, so now Gaura-Govinda is taking on bullocks cart. He'll go to the villages, and he'll distribute. Then some portion of what I will collect, I will put in... I have separate account for book fund and one for construction. Some portion I'll put in book fund. Then we'll print, and I will bring...

Prabhupāda: No, you gave money. I can give you. There is Book Trust.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Changing? Stop it. Change for the good. Why for the bad? Change is inherent. That I know. I am saying that. But why should we change? Young man becoming invalid old man? Stop it.

Śatadhanya: They may agree that it changes, but then they say that at death then everything is finished.

Prabhupāda: Then you stop it.

Śatadhanya: No more change.

Prabhupāda: Then you stop.

Upendra: They're working like anything, research.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That means they are rascals. Anyone says that "Our... Where is death repeat?"

Upendra: Then he's rascal.

Prabhupāda: That is rascal, mūḍha. That is the proof they are rascals. They cannot do something. Still, they are promising, "Yes, yes." This is rascal.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Woman? Woman?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no, Amrtabal Singh is the name. And he told me he didn't have time to talk with me because, he said, he had a meeting. So I told him that I just came to see the director, but since the director is not there I just want to let him know that "We want to hold a conference on life sciences and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so if you are interested, I'd like to invite you because you're a leading scientist. And the Bose Institute is quite well known. So I'd like you to participate in our conference." Then he asked me, "What is that conference?" Then I started describing about the way modern science is going at this time. "Science says that everything is molecules. So what do you think as a scientist? Now, the way we communicate... I talk with you, and you talk to me, but the way we communicate, science say that these are just chemical reactions. You talk because of some chemical reactions. And so what do you think about this modern philosophy?" Then I started talking about the very unsatisfactory explanations of these ideas according to modern science and trying to introduce concept of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Life is nonchemical and nonphysical. It is spiritual. When we study physics, chemistry and mathematics, we simply study matter, but actually we don't really study life. But modern science says that life is nothing but chemicals. So we are determined to show to the people, especially to the leading scientists, that the knowledge that we have is all wrong. There must be something beyond that we just know so far." Then he started taking great interest, and I talked with him for a little more than an hour. He... And even he was thinking of postponing that... He had a meeting, and he telephoned. He said... He said he started discussing with me, and the talk became so interesting that he postponed the meeting. He even said. (laughs) So he was very nice, actually. He said that he agrees that in the Western..., especially in the United States, the leading scientists are taking too much for granted. They're saying too much, very unscientific, saying that life started from molecules. He said it's all unknown. These are all stories. So he said that it's a little too much. Science doesn't know these things. He agreed to that point very clearly. I said, "Do you think scientists like...? It is your responsibility, especially from this land, to show that the concept..."

Prabhupāda: We know.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just explain this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other day, when I went from Delhi to Calcutta in the plane, I happened to see that Dr. Chatterjee from Calcutta University. She's a lady, woman, but she's very well known. International scientist she has become. Her name is Asina Chatterjee. And I never saw here, though I was studying side by side in the next building, in Calcutta University. She discovered some drug. That's why she became famous. And she's also a member of Council of Scientific and Industrial Research all over India, and also a member of University Grants Commission. So she told me that she went for a meeting to attend in Delhi, and there was also an engineer who was sitting in between me and her, and I was discussing about our plan for scientific conference on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He was also Bengali from Calcutta. Somehow she became very interested. I was explaining how scientists misleading, thinking that life can be chemical. And I was describing about how life can be nonchemical and nonphysical. So Chatterjee immediately joined the talk. And I immediately recognized that she must be Chatterjee. So I asked her, "Are you Dr. Chatterjee?" I never saw her before, but I just guessed right. She was Dr. Asina Chatterjee. And she became very interested in the talk, and then she was completely agreeing to our discussion that life is something spiritual, beyond physics and chemistry. So she actually invited me to come and give a talk in chemistry department Calcutta University. So I said that we are coming back with our scientific group from Kṛṣṇa consciousness and would like to present the philosophy in that chemistry department. So like that, there are many...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recruit them, at least some.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that change takes place according to your mentality. You are subtle thing, psychological. One man is thief. By change, he can become a saintly person. One man is saintly person; he becomes a thief. So that change, according to three qualities... Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). You cannot ascertain immediately because you are changing from sattva-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to tamo-guṇa. So how you can be ascertained? But there will be change. That is fixed. So we have to take this word change. So you cannot expect what changes. Are you going to be dog or hog or god? That will depend on your work. How you can expect to see, that "I do not see"? But that is not certain. There are 8,400,000's of different types of change of body. But you have to change. Not that you have to become a dog. You can become a demigod. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti... But change is certain. So if change takes place, then where is your position? Whatever you have done-śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Yaśodā-nandana: They will say, "We can perceive all the changes during this life. We agree..."

Prabhupāda: And next life or this life, rascal...

Yaśodā-nandana: "Because the last change, at death, the last transmigration to another body, because we cannot see according to our scientific experience..."

Prabhupāda: So you die, what you will see? Your eyes are taken away. What you will see? You say, "I die." Then what you will see after death? A dead man has got eyes. Can he see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they say, "How have you seen, that you are telling us what will...?"

Prabhupāda: Seen by intelligence. (break) We are accepting everything like that.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I see that boy, that Dalmiya's grandson, unless he comes to our gurukula, he will be spoiled for sure.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm. But Dalmiya agreed. That means if you approach the grandmother, you'll get the boy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Aurora's son, he agreed. I talked to him yesterday. Before he left, he was determined to... He said, "I will send my son there."

Prabhupāda: They are (too faint).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Aurora is very qualified, very important. He was a judge in South Africa. He was an international lawyer. He graduated from Harvard, so many big schools-Oxford, Harvard. I know he wasn't lying. It's true. He held very good position.

Prabhupāda: Is Aurora pleader? Is Aurora pleader, you mean?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that barrister. We have to take very good care to make the gurukula bona fide and genuine. It's really lucky you got that Dr. Sharma. Clearly he's the best. I mean, he's already been principal of big schools.

Prabhupāda: Human activity should be guided toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is human. Otherwise it is animal. Take minimum demand, be happy, and make progress. That is the platform of progress. Very little... (too faint) The same shape, (too faint) they are improving to make straighter, topless, bottomless, in this way and that way, miniskirt. They are arranging. The thing is the same, but they want to change the taste in different way. No knowledge. That means (too faint). Sex, you require under... You'll get it between husband and wife. There is no difficulty. What is the use of that? Daily pregnancy, daily... Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are getting standing orders, all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And he wrote me a note for the librarian. This note influenced the librarian to take not just the standing orders or all of the books, but they have agreed to take every book that we have in each of the different languages also."

Prabhupāda: How intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every language, all the books in all languages. "Feeling a little satisfied that this school had been properly inoculated..."—he called it an inoculation—"...I picked up my two bags and ran to the train station."

Prabhupāda: When all these standing orders will be supplied and they read it, we'll get more first order.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So our book prospect is very nice future. So BBT must be very careful for distribution like this. Such reception, who is that author, he'll not be engladdened all over the world? Against odds. Against odds. It's simply Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So keep it on Sunday.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's a letter from Vāsudeva, Deoji Punja. Would you like to hear?

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "I met Hari-śauri in Australia last week." He went to Australia. "He and I have agreed upon August 28th for the date of opening the Śrī-Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya Temple." It says, "People here are very anxious for this event to take place. The Deities are to arrive on July 18th according to Rāmeśvara Swami, who also will be coming to the opening ceremonies. Rāmeśvara Swami has also told us that he will send money to Dhanañjaya to make clothes, crowns and jewels for the Deities. Hari-śauri will be sending money to Yaśodānandana Swami to come."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And as luggage, he can carry the clothes, jewels, crowns, etc., for the opening if possible."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lotus petal, it is round. So in one lotus petal you are conditioned. You cannot go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So far that hasn't been said, but that's... You can say that Bhārata-varṣa is a petal of the lotus. But I think if you look at the Bhāgavatam, it may... I'd have to see it, what it says. There's a statement that it may be the inner portion of the lotus. I don't know...(break) And what we do, it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Lotus petal... There are so many petals. You are conditioned with one petal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... If that's the explanation, then it can be somehow adjusted.

Prabhupāda: You do not know what is going on outside.

Devotee: There's so many round parts of a lotus petal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that part...That could be adjusted. But there's a place within it, you know, the center part, there's no petals. In the middle of the lotus there's like a... I don't know what you call it, but a... It's a flattish area. They show Kṛṣṇa standing sometimes when they draw a picture of Kṛṣṇa on a lotus.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But your place is in.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How they can? Scientist is rascal. That is proved. They are insisting that chemical can produce life. He's a rascal. They have gone to moon planet. That's a rascal. So what is the value of so-called scientist. Why should we give any importance? I'm not giving any importance. If you become scientist, that so much ghee and so much āṭā makes puri, and we can eat very nicely, all right, you are a scientist. But so much chemicals, make it life—prove that. The confectioner is also scientist. He knows very well how to do his business. A carpenter is also scientist. Here is some work nice done by the carpenter. I cannot do it. You may be a great scientist, but me? It is not possible for me to do a carpentry work. In this way it is going on. (Bengali) You have learned something, you can do it very nicely. But I cannot do it. For me it will be beating by the rod if I am given this work. I can translate, my work. So everyone is scientist, his own field of activities, to some extent. You cannot make everyone agree. That is not... Vox populi you cannot. That is not possible. What is that vox populi?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Uttarāyaṇa, dakṣiṇāyana. This Sumeru Mountain... So six months, northern side; six months, southern side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some things are quite clear. Then there's a description, though, that there's an axle, it's described, a tie made of wind going from the chariot to Dhruvaloka. So things like that we want to get a..., further information on. Just so that it can be somehow demonstrated. Our... To understand these things for the purpose of making an exhibit requires a very clear picture. So that's the only reason we're looking to other books. But only bona fide books. The ācāryas' commentaries, like that. And then it has to agree with the Bhāgavatam. If in any way there's a discrepancy, we choose the Bhāgavatam as the authority.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the sun is not fixed up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, not at all. It's moving. As a matter of fact, it describes sometimes it moves in one way with Meru at its right side, and then sometimes it moves the other way with Meru at its left side.

Prabhupāda: That is dakṣiṇāyana-mārga, dakṣiṇāyanam, uttarāyaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much moving and at very high speed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I calculated sixteen thousand miles per second, so far I remember.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee. Bhṛtya-vaśyata. That means under the control of the servant, but He is under the control of pure love by the servant. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, we see, Kṛṣṇa became the chariot driver of Arjuna. Arjuna is ordering Him, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta (BG 1.21). Here Kṛṣṇa has agreed... (break) '...my chariot...' (break) '...to execute my order. Place my chariot between the two party soldiers.' Kṛṣṇa immediately executed his order. One may argue in this connection that Kṛṣṇa is also not independent. This is ajñāna, ignorance. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. When He becomes subordinate to the devotees He is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Humor of transcendental qualities increases transcendental pleasure. One who worships Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore sometimes desires to be controlled by somebody controller. Nobody else... (break) ...pure devotee." (end of tape playback section) Everyone worships Him as the Supreme, but sometimes He desires, "Somebody will control over."

Room Conversation Gaurasundara, Dr. Kapoor -- July 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He is grandson of Ford, great-grandson.

Dr. Kapoor: Yes, I was told. He came here once, I'm told.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he offered everything he has to Prabhupāda. So Śrīla Prabhupāda has requested him to build a large building and put in a Vedic planetarium in Washington, D.C., capital of the United States, right near the White House, with the Vedic planetary system according to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto. So he has agreed to do this, and now they are choosing the property where they will develop this program right in the heart of Washington, D.C. So it will be very good. And also the dolls will be... Doll exhibit.

Prabhupāda: How they are making dolls, show him. How nice dolls.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: I brought them here and kept them in Māyāpur.

Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā, and they got the training there.

Prabhupāda: And they have learned now. Now they are making better dolls than the Krishnanagar potters. They are very intelligent. The intelligence was not properly used. Now they have got chance. In Bhāgavata it is said, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. This knowledge, why it should be locked up amongst the jñāna-khala? In India this knowledge is available, and they should be packed up amongst themselves? Now it is the time to distribute.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We don't want any profit. We don't want any profit. You produce. You eat. You chant. Organize. Don't go outside.

Yaśomatīnandana: Don't go to the cities.

Prabhupāda: No. Be man of character. No illicit sex, no intoxication. Vaiṣṇava. Eat sufficiently, dress sufficiently. Live very comfortably. Whatever profit is there, it should be invested again for books. That's... Because we are investing money, our land... Therefore we are not profited. Beneficiary, you. It is a cooperative society. You produce your needs, live comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our only interest is that you are taking interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, working. Otherwise we don't want to exploit you. That is not... If there is no sufficient, you can... We help you manage it. You manage your own affair. We give you direction. Live happily, chant. This should be... Will not they agree?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, they will very much agree.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: They already like our program of chanting and dancing.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like that land in Bombay, that house...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Whatever everyone wanted, "All right, take it." Finish. I know. I am giving ten thousand more, fifteen thousand more. I didn't mind. "Take it and finish business tomorrow. Take it."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That man was surprised that you didn't bargain with him.

Prabhupāda: No. I simply asked, "Whether you are going to finish it tomorrow. So I have agreed to pay." He said, "Yes, I can." What is that?

Dhanañjaya: This is a Deity of yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dhanañjaya: This is a Deity prepared here of you.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So what shall I do? (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He just wanted to show it to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Nice.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he said that he could even come with us and meet them. So the new chairman, I mean the present chairman, is coming on Tuesday. So I think we'll get all the formalities ready, and then we can go on Tuesday. Today is Sunday, so we couldn't do anything today.

Prabhupāda: So these people have agreed?

Girirāja: The local people? Well, they have not agreed. That's why we felt that we have to meet the chairman. Legally we have every right to transfer the fixed deposit wherever we like, and if the former chairman is with us, then they can't give any false excuses because he knows all the rules. Actually we're not asking for anything special. Otherwise we're... Probably the local people will try to avoid giving it up. But this is our right, and the chairman has to uphold our right as customers of the bank.

Prabhupāda: What is their plea here?

Girirāja: Local people? Well, they will say that there's no reason to transfer the fixed deposits.

Prabhupāda: We have reason.

Girirāja: Yes, we have reason. That is our choice. And the manager in Delhi already said that for our foreign remittances it would be much easier to bring it in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Doctor: That I'll prescribe. Mahārājajī will be prepared to take some medicine... You like to take some medicine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good question.

Doctor: If he agrees, I will suggest. I'll put it in a prescription form and explain to you how.

Prabhupāda: Take it.

Doctor: I think he would not like to receive any injection.

Devotees: No.

Doctor: And I won't advise further. Rather, it will be very cruel if I suggest.

Prabhupāda: Without injection...

Doctor: No. There will be, sir, no injection.

Prabhupāda: It will be very nice. (laughter)

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Doctor: Neurovion syrup. Three times a day.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Doctor: A tablespoonful two times a day after meals. A tablespoonful (Bengali). A teaspoonful two times a day, three-two combined. (Bengali) Now the tablet(?) remains off, it is not. It is positively due to deficiency of proteins. (Hindi) But it should be given.

Bali-mardana: He will have to agree to take it. You will have to agree to take it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Dr. Kapoor: He has agreed.

Doctor: Unless the body requirements are met with it, the body cannot fight.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Bali-mardana: This is what the devotees have brought from America.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rāma?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kotari. D. S. Kotari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and very respected. All Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.

Prabhupāda: We want that they should be interested.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, you are making point, but there is no reaction from the other side?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not so many.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Most of them actually agreed to what we say. On Sunday we may have some interesting... First somebody is going to speak against us. There's one Dr. Malvia(?) from Agra. He's a biochemist. He's going to speak against us. Also Dr. Mishra from All-India Institute Medical Sciences, he's going to speak. He's not exactly against, but he's heavily Māyāvādī oriented. Also he tries to compromise the modern scientific concept with the Vedic ideas, which is actually not what we're trying to do. So on Sunday also I'm planning to have about an hour and half as discussion, completely open to all the participants. So on Sunday we expect a little lively discussion.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And Dugal is here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dugal is here. So we're explaining to him everything, what we want, and they're agreeing to everything.

Prabhupāda: What Gupta said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He doesn't say anything anymore, because he has been exposed as having harassed us and unnecessarily not giving the proper facilities. He cannot say anything. Dugal says that "Whatever I am told to do by the head office, I must do."

Prabhupāda: So, he is the head office man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's agreeing to do everything. They have to do everything. They're just workers for the head office. They cannot act independently of the head office. They have to carry out the orders of the head office.

Prabhupāda: So you saw the massaging?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. How are you feeling after it?

Prabhupāda: Good.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hindi (break) (Hindi with Nava-yogendra Swami)

Upendra: Girirāja is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, the bank business?

Girirāja: The manager came, I mean, not the manager, the assistant general manager from the head office. He came, and he brought the letter with our eleven-points program which we want to have, and he agreed with all of the points. And he said that probably Tuesday I can go to Delhi and collect the fixed deposit certificates, and they will be endorsed on the New Delhi branch. And he said that after ten days... Within ten days there will be a new manager for the extension counter, and we'll never have to deal with Mr. Gupta again. So many different small points, he instructed the people to comply. And he's going to have the whole extension counter refurnished with carpets and nice chairs and sofas, so that there's a nice atmosphere. So, I mean, I think from now on everything should be very straightforward.

Prabhupāda: So things are satisfactory now?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Also another thing, that four thousand, er, four lakhs has reached Bombay?

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Excellent. Very... Foundation, back to Godhead. I am getting little glimpse, He may agree to your prayer, yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Now stock books immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Jayapatākā Swami.

Prabhupāda: You print. They will pay you. Jayapatākā?

Jayapatākā: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming miserly. You print as many books as you like. All money will be paid if you have no money. Why? If you are selling books, you must have money also.

Jayapatākā: We have a program to print. We're printing right now. It's in the press at the present time. The Bhakti-kathā, Jñāna-kathā, Bhagavānera-kathā and then hardback Vairāgya-vidyā. And also three issues of Bhāgavata-darśana. We're trying to, within that money also, print the first three chapters of Bhagavad-gītā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We gave him a loan of forty-five thousand rupees, and then another twenty-five is coming. But that's all...

Prabhupāda: So you'll get money. Print.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They won't agree to it. They'll say it's not possible.

Hari-śauri: It's better to tell them...

Prabhupāda: You can get local brāhmaṇa to assist us. Perform the yajña little gorgeously, that's all. If you can distribute to the local brāhmaṇas, important, some (indistinct) silk cloth, and grains, and..., they will come. And let them cook themselves and take prasādam and do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Hari-śauri: I think the local brāhmaṇas will be very pleased to be connected with the opening of such a big temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's better. Better to involve the local people. South Indian people will come, take money, and go back to South. No use.

Prabhupāda: Local brāhmaṇa will be... Where is Bhavānanda?

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Everyone... All the doctors agree that your liver and digestion, spleen, is all in good working order.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also the blood pressure is normal. It's 130. It's very reduced, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's normal blood pressure now.

Bhavānanda: But he said that your pulse is so weak that every 18 beats it skips a beat, misses, because you're in such weakened state.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he was hopeful in general.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Gopal.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the worst effect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the kavirāja could give something for inducing sleep, or Dr. Ghosh could give something. If you can sleep, then the other things are not bad. So why not just take something which will help you to sleep? Then, if the other good things are there, why not continue?

Bhavānanda: If the infection from the kidney goes away... But everyone agrees that that has to be taken away. That is the fatal, fatal infection. Kavirāja and allopathic all agree that that urine must become clear and that infection is dispelled.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that condition is finished. I have no stamina to force.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You won't let us help you to have that stamina?

Prabhupāda: How you can?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can sit you up physically. We can put the liquid in your mouth. All you have to do is agree to it. Physically it's not... It's not physically so difficult. The main question is the willingness.

Prabhupāda: But when one's physical strength... You...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it would be possible for you to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. But I...

Bhavānanda: Everyone says, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that liver is good, digestion is good, your heart is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Simply you're not taking enough foodstuffs.

Bhavānanda: But you won't eat.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Abhirāma: They both agreed on it was the same disease.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They agree that the disease is the same. They understand what the disease is, and they both agree on that. But as to treatment, Dr. Gopal seems to be more aware of the more modern and up-to-date discoveries that science has made than Dr. Ghosh. Dr. Ghosh is aware, more or less, of things which were available ten or twenty years ago.

Bhavānanda: We can go and see Dr. Gopal this morning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatji said Dr. Gopal is his close friend. He can bring him here once a day if necessary.

Bhavānanda: And explain to him that you've had some restless reaction to this medicine and get his opinion and new diagnosis, new medicines, if necessary. And for your liquid intake, if you can take just four glasses of Complan in one day, plus some juice now and then, it won't be so much, so many times you'll have to be bothered. They all recommended that Complan is the very best.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What?

Bhakti-caru: Complan, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a drink, beverage, like Horlicks. I gave it to you last night.

Bhavānanda: Is there some bad effect to it that you feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you take that?

Prabhupāda: Not yet, but when it becomes mucus.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: 27th October?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This month, yes, October 27th. It was Indian National Science Academy. There are some very well known scientists, including Kothari, D. S. Kothari and other... They told me there is a group of scientists in Delhi, actually from all over India. It's called "Mind Group." They like to do research on nature of consciousness. And they told me that it would be very good if we have a debate between our group and their group. So I agreed to that. And the Mishra, actually, the one who came last time, he also belongs to that group, and Kothari is the chairman of that group, and there's one Bengali called Lankadas(?) Gupta. He's the secretary. They all belong to that group. So they're going to invite us for a, they call, round-table debate. It will be about twenty people from their side and five from our side. So we're going to have a confrontation. And also Dr. Krana told me that when I come I can fix a television program in Delhi to appear us, and they're going to interview us in the Indian television. But I decided to establish Bombay as a... Since we have everything there ready, I'd like to furnish with office, and also I requested our members to stay here for some time. So they're going to establish the library also. I have plans to contact many leading scientists, personal goal. So we'll all go out with our books, and we'll try to make them members of the Institute. Also in the process we'll speak and make engagements, and also we'll try to request them to help us in pushing this movement, plus we'll request them to review our books on a scientific level. And, so that way we can make friends and they can help us in, I think, various ways. I think that... I'm thinking of charging one hundred rupees only for membership. This is called annual membership. It's like in any other institution we have this membership program. Just like I am a member of American Chemical Society. We have annual membership fees. So just like that, we'll generate, called subscriber members, and they will get our journal, Sa-Vijñānam, free. And they'll renew this every year. I just discussed this morning with my members that we should plan to make many members while we're here, six months in India. Then yesterday we were discussing about our possible permanent place in the United States. And I suggested that, from my experience, that Atlanta was very, very nice place especially to do writing, because the atmosphere is nice and the climate is also nice and it's natural setting. It is very conducive, especially thinking and writing type of work. So I decided that until at least we have a permanent place, I like to stay for a few years in Atlanta. Then they will stay about three, four years to do the, some of our main writing. And then also we can do the preaching, side by side. So instead of going to Europe, we'll go back to the United States after the Māyāpur festival, and then we'll do more writing, and in the process we'll also make several engagements in the United States. We'll start preaching now. Also Amarendra, that I requested... He's in Balavanta's zone. He's the president in Gainesville. He's the one who's good in making engagements for us. He's very enthusiastic. But he cannot come outside United States. So I thought it will also be very practical to be in Atlanta. Then in the process we'll look for a possible permanent place in Washington, DC, so that we can work out slowly, but... At least four or five years we'll be engaged in writing. So... And also we'll request, make many members as possible from the scientific community.

Prabhupāda: Enroll the intelligent men.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As other occupier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I mean I was just going to say what's really required is for Jayapatākā to meet the, one or two of the association people, people who occupy there, and just find out how they are doing. I discussed this already with Girirāja. The main thing is that we have to have a copy of the sale agreement so that we can see that the terms of the conveyance agree with the terms of the sale agreement. That's the biggest issue. (break)

Upendra: Prabhupāda? Pisimā's nephew has come.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Pisimā's nephew)

Dr. Ghosh: He had his morning Complan?

Bhakti-caru: No, not as yet.

Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali) Pomegranate juice. Or Complan? Preparing. His pulse has definitely improved, and the swelling too. Come down. (break)

Bhavānanda: Now you're resting nicely? Not. (break) I think that you... (break) Because up until then you were taking some small amount of solid food. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doubtful. Dubious. So Prabhupāda has more faith... Another thing, kavirājī medicine is not dangerous. Whereas these men, you can see how many side effects they have, these Western medicines. Prabhupāda becomes dizzy, he cannot sleep, he vomits. And as soon as we agree to x-ray, x-ray is only the first step, then there'll be more and more and more. When you call in a doctor it means you are ready to take his treatment. When you ask for an x-ray it means that after the x-ray you're ready to accept whatever they advise. Otherwise why do you call for x-ray? That's the whole point. So the real issue we have to decide is whether Prabhupāda wants to take the allopathic medicine or not. If he says, "I don't want allopathic medicine," what is the use of taking x-ray? Because the kavirājas don't care for x-rays. They say that simply by pulse they can see everything. Just like this man, he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys. We did not tell him anything, but he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys and the stomach. And he said, "Kidneys are completely malfunctioning, and the fire of digestion is nearly extinguished." I think that's a very practical statement if you think about it. Prabhupāda, he's passing urine, he can pass stool, but what is the real problem, the biggest problem? There's no taste, no appetite. And that you have to admit, he has no idea how to get appetite, Dr. Gopal. He has no idea. He's thinking this and this. He doesn't even understand there's a fire of digestion. Where does it mention that Kṛṣṇa is sitting as the fire of digestion in the stomach? Where does it say that in the allopathic books? (laughs) It doesn't. But Prabhupāda has said it from the very beginning: "I have no digestion." So the question is how to wake up that fire. And they can't do this, these allopathic doctors. Maybe the kavirājas can do it.

Bhagatji: So there is one Vedic kavirāja in Mathurā. Should I bring him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I don't know. First of all there's now already two kavirājas involved. Maybe we should first let this rāmānujī do his work.

Bhagatji: Today, he came today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a kavirāja. Oh, yeah. And Vanamali is coming tomorrow. So I think before you call a third man...

Prabhupāda: No, Vanamali is no use.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What did you answer?

Bhagatji: I heard the answer forty years back, Prabhupāda, from one professor. He brought the map of the world, and he showed the India position. Like this. That suppose one is sick. Someone has some cut. Then he's a very good man, and he sends the information to the hospital. He said "It is a small cut. Let me send my compounder(?)." The compounder(?) goes and makes a powder(?). And sometimes he has got... Then he says "Let go." Then a big, more serious disease he sends. And suppose he gets heart attack, so then himself goes, because it is a very serious disease. So he got the world map, and he showed that India is the heart of the world. So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself. And U.P. is the heart of India. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes Kṛṣṇa comes to Bengal. (laughter)

Bhagatji: But in a devotee form.

Prabhupāda: Just like government has got a house. So when the governor comes, he comes in that house. Similarly India is the bhūmi, and whenever incarnation of God or God Himself comes... (break) ...discussion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We didn't discuss last night, but it was agreed that it was a good idea. In about three weeks it's cooler here. In Māyāpur there is nice weather. (indistinct) (end)

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So can they claim any right as a tenant based upon the fact that they paid the taxes? All right, anyway, let us see. I mean, I understand your desire. We'll try and encourage them to fulfill your desire, that they live there and be happy. (background conversations) See, I think one of the things that should be done is that they should sign. Vrindavan should sign an agreement saying that he agrees not to sublet it to anybody else. Because right now there's no such agreement at all. We're letting them live there, and they can do whatever they want. When he comes here... He'll be coming here. So when he comes here he should sign an agreement that he agrees not to sublet or to let anyone else except the family members live in this apartment.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if they ever decide they don't want to live there, then they have to return the place to the Society. And the Society agrees to allow them to live there peacefully. (break)

Hari-śauri: Do you think he is a good doctor?

Prabhupāda: Who is good? (laughs) Everyone is good; I am bad.

Hari-śauri: Actually you're the best doctor, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because you're the only one who can cure our material diseases all in one. They can make some adjustment, but you can bring complete finish for all material disease.

Prabhupāda: Why they stop kīrtana? (kīrtana starts again)

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Hari-śauri: That's very good. Since you've been here in Vṛndāvana, I sent them a telegram that now they have to distribute more books so that Lord Kṛṣṇa will be pleased and allow you to stay with us. So they've doubled up since then. Now they're almost run out, they've distributed so many. (break) He said that up on the farm also things are going very nicely. Many, many people are coming now to see how we are living. And for Govardhana Pūjā they are planning a two-day festival. They're expecting to get many hundreds of people coming. Your farm is already very well known now up in that area, and people are becoming very interested to see what we have to offer. In the immediate district where our farm is, many people have tried to start communes—these hippies and people like this. But they've never been successful because they've never had any central point to agree on. Everybody's simply gone their..., lived their own way. But within a few months now, some of the more serious people have seen that within just three or four months we have achieved more on our farm than any of these communes have done in the last six years. So they're becoming very attracted to come and stay with us, and they appreciate the kīrtana and prasādam very much. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Guest (1): Because we cannot sign now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. But you should explain to him that you agree.

Prabhupāda: I can sign, but it will not be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same.

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In any case, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have to bring the certificates here. That's the first thing. Whether it's your signature or whether it's our signatures, the certificate has to be brought here.

Guest (1): You may sign. If both of these will be given to me, that will do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We'll give in this plus the certificates to the bank, and they'll give us a receipt.

Prabhupāda: So you can take the copy of the safe custody receipt and inquire into Bank of Baroda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want me to give him the receipt?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, all of you agree to this?

Bhavānanda: Do we all agree?

Devotees: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then I will give direction. Simply I want to know about the makara-dhvaja, consulting both the kavirājas. (pause) Why you stop kīrtana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go ahead, Pañca. (kīrtana begins, Pañca-draviḍa sings slowly)

Prabhupāda: Mildly kīrtana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Mild kīrtana, tell him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mild kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Where is Haṁsadūta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want Haṁsadūta's kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Bharadvāja or...

Bhavānanda: Bharadvāja.

Prabhupāda: Eh? They are avoiding?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: They are avoiding me.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Train or plane. But first we should agree on the idea, though. I think the point of that there's no real advantage to waiting here... Our feeling is that there's more advantage to being in Māyāpur at this time. We can certainly go by plane. I think we can arrange some small wheelchair that will go up to the seat. It's possible to arrange.

Brahmānanda: Seat right at the door.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What we'll do is we'll purchase two extra seats so that Prabhupāda can have three seats.

Brahmānanda: And right by the door so they can just bring it in the door and... Take the seats right on the door.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That can be done. We can try to get the front row.

Haṁsadūta: Whatever they do when they have to transport someone in emergency... They must have an arrangement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they do. They take the seats out and put your stretcher on. But we don't want that. There's no question of that.

Prabhupāda: It goes direct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Delhi-Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Then arrange for that.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This country you can't do these things like that. So...

Brahmānanda: Then directly from Dum Dum to Māyāpur?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Then we go direct from Dum Dum to Māyāpur. We don't even have to go into Calcutta. Is that all right? So do you agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with the idea then, that the sooner we transfer there, the better, to Māyāpur? As far as the kavirāja goes, let us see if we get a local man from Calcutta, failing which, Smara-hari plus one other devotee will go to Śrī Raṅgam, and from a very reliable kavirāja, in their presence, they will have it made. Smara-hari, you see, is from Gurukṛpā and Yaśodā-nandana's party, so he has got experience sitting and watching people making the silver onto the throne. He knows how to sit and watch not to get cheated.

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is the man who would prepare, he must be experienced. That is wanted. And sincere. Then it will work, either you prepare there or here. When our men...? (devotees talk among themselves softly about who should go to Śrī Raṅgam)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "A loan payable when able."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "When able." Prabhupāda... (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I wouldn't agree to that. I'm very strict...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are paying back the loan in time with interest.

Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi, this kind of loan is very good.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's Gopāla's favorite loan.

Prabhupāda: You take loan—"payable when able." (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We paid back the first BBT loan—the second three lakhs—I paid it back three months ago. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I could not follow what he said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says... He found out that the Bombay temple owed the BBT seventy thousand rupees. So he says when he heard that you had decided that you wanted to live and not leave us, he got very encouraged and inspired. So he decided on his own that he wanted to pay back this money to the BBT for you. He says, "I have been encouraging all the preachers here at ISKCON Bombay to go out and collect the money to pay off this debt to the BBT. Śrīla Prabhupāda has made all this arrangement very easily because of his encouragement to us. Even devotees who have engagements where they are not likely to make a life member are making life members very easily and are collecting money. And even persons not expected to become members are now becoming members. This is all due to the desire in the hearts of the preachers here in Bombay to serve Śrīla Prabhupāda. And by the grace of Śrīla Prabhupāda, everything is coming very smoothly. This is confirmed in our hearts that without Śrīla Prabhupāda, we cannot do any single work in this movement. Śrīla Prabhupāda gives us encouragement just to kindly agree to stay with us. So yesterday, on Daśarātrī, we collected over 21,000 rupees and made ten members." (Prabhupāda laughs) He says, "We cannot express in English what we are feeling in our hearts, but we are all very encouraged to go out and collect for Śrīla Prabhupāda and expand his life membership program, and we are all very thankful that Śrīla Prabhupāda has been merciful and..." (break)

Trivikrama: By your mercy.

Prabhupāda: No. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavat... Any devotee can become. That letter, mayor's letter also, it carries weight. What is his name?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with your suggestion, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think it's a good idea to stop the medicine for a day and to consult the kavirāja, and also to try to drink something else besides only fruit juice. I think the medicine should be stopped for a day. Haṁsadūta... I was talking with him. He said that he sometimes would do these fruit juice diets. In America this is something that's done a lot of times. He said when he would take this fruit juice diet, he said there's no question of passing stool. He said when you take fruit juice diets you don't pass stool because there's nothing... He says eventually you just pass urine. So the fact that Prabhupāda is passing stool is very unnatural, at least for taking fruit juice. He's not eating anything, so how can he pass stool four times? What is the stool coming from if he's not eating?

Prabhupāda: Whatever little blood is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whatever little blood is there.

Bhavānanda: I think it's a mistake, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to take this strong medicine without having the kavirāja actually come and diagnose himself and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if he agrees to take up the case, I'll go.

Bhavānanda: He'll take up the case. That there's no doubt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but will he come every day to Māyāpur or stay in Māyāpur? That is the question.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: First of all, if he can come at least for a few days here, if it is possible, and if he examines, then, if we make the next move, I think that will be wiser.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If somebody goes and brings him, then he decides. Then we shall go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara, you could call direct to Calcutta and talk with Adri-dhāraṇa, who has contacted him, and let him discuss and see if he can bring him here. First of all, he should ask whether the man is willing. We can fly him here to Delhi and bring him here. I'm sure he'll agree to that. But it should be... He should be...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I can call from Delhi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. You could call Adri-dhāraṇa. He's the one who found the man. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bring one Rāmānuja. He has the makara-dhvaja. So if... Bhavānanda has suggested, somebody very responsible go and bring him. And then, if we can, we shall go together. Hm?

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we discussed a number of points. One thing is that I talked to him about Panchashil flat. So I explained to him that he should feel the responsibility for paying for the living there, as we have given him this nice place. So he's agreed to do that. And I told him that whatever he pays, the receipts should be in your name, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami. Apparently the receipts have been issued in the name of M. M. De. So I told him don't do that, because if they get the receipts in their name then they become the tenant. I don't want that. They're living there as our guest, not as tenants. So he agreed to that. As soon as I mentioned it, he understood what I was talking about. M. M. is a little clever. So then I told him, however, that the permanent electricity was never hooked up. Permanent electricity line was never installed. So since that was an initial giving of the flat, I told him that if he paid for half of that, we would pay the other half. I said but first of all he has to pay and send me the receipt showing that he's paid. It's about 650 rupees.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred and fifty?

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I don't think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean verbal agreement is enough, isn't it, in dealing with him? I would think so. I mean I thought it was sufficient if he agrees verbally. No contract or loan agreement. He wants to pay this money back by April. I didn't tell him he had to. I told him it was a donation. He seems to want to pay it back. So let him if he wants to. Then he wanted me to arrange, so I'm sending... I gave the receipts to him as you saw. I'm sending the letter... I'm sending a man to Delhi tomorrow to get a ticket for him, airline ticket.

Prabhupāda: Where he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's gone to take his meals now. Then he's going to take rest, he said.

Prabhupāda: And he has got the papers?

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this 43,000 can be given, because it is not Society's money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It's not come in our accounts, so it can be given definitely.

Prabhupāda: So this much you can do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I fully agree. And I have no objection to giving one lakh. But I'm speaking from a legal point of view. It will injure us, and I don't want to be injured.

Vrindavan De: No, I can spare some little amount of interest. I can pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's more jeopardizing. We can't charge interest. We cannot make profit on money loaned out, as a society. It goes against the laws of India. That's the whole point. Even if we gave it in any way, it's jeopardizing.

Vrindavan De: But you can put it easily on donation account, that charge interest.

Prabhupāda: No, Overseas Bank they can give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Overseas Bank, they can give?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, Raṅganātha temple, somebody?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Not yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're not getting into that, because hopefully we want him to stay for, some time.

Prabhupāda: He has agreed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's agreed to stay for some time.

Prabhupāda: No, that assistant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we haven't approached anyone yet.

Bhakti-caru: No, he has come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you did approach?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Like, he just wanted to consult him. Consult him in the sense... At the first place he had to discuss about certain preparations, and he didn't have the books with him, so he wanted to see the books, so I took him there. And then he liked him, talking to him, and he says he's a very efficient person. So he wanted him to come tomorrow, so like when he is not here...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long he will stay here for?

Bhakti-caru: Four or five days he agreed to stay. But he says that in four or five days Śrīla Prabhupāda won't be able to travel. It will be at least ten to fifteen days. At that time...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, let us see. Maybe we can convince him to stay.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A bit longer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should try. Śrīla Prabhupāda? I had meeting with that lawyer? That man is wonderful. He is the first lawyer I have ever met that I honestly feel is an honest man. That Jagadish...

Prabhupāda: Agarwal.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You can call him. I shall tell him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean that's also my opinion.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I fully agree with you. The fact of the matter is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he has no head for business.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anything he does, he's going to lose the money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know that also.

Prabhupāda: And his assistant is looting him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He thinks this assistant is his greatest friend. Just like he's leaving on a plane. He's going to arrive Monday morning by eight o'clock in the morning, yet he feels he has to send a telegram to his assistant on a Sunday. I said, "What is the point of sending a telegram? The telegram will reach after you arrive. And even if it doesn't, what is the purpose of sending a telegram?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, he has no business friend. He should not be given a farthing. That is my conclusion. And the postal, they should be given to the respective...

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is the right conclusion.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) He does not agree. Then?

Bhavānanda: Agree to remain?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. He... He'll either agree to remain or else we'll make him agree to take you to Māyāpur. Probably by our refusing to accept this assistant, it will induce him to stay here a little bit longer to prepare you for the journey, and then he'll take you to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Journey, what is the difficulty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't find any difficulty. I didn't find any difficulty one week ago. I'm prepared to take you anywhere in the world, in any condition. I don't think that there's so much difficulty. I see how we're putting you on the palanquin.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānanda?

Bhavānanda: I also agree with Tamāla, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's ten of us. Bhavānanda Mahārāja, Śatadhanya Mahārāja, Upendra, myself, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Jayādvaita, Yadubara, Adri-dhāraṇa, Bhakti-caru, and one kavirāja. It is a proper entourage for a king.

Prabhupāda: I am prepared also. How many hours it will take altogether?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By plane?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Adri-dharaṇa: About this man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Follow strictly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you agree that we should follow strictly his advice?

Adri-dharaṇa: From my experience I think he's a very good man. He's a Vaiṣṇava.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We certainly have... We might as well try. We've tried everyone else.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So let us try.

Bhavānanda: He did agree with your own diagnosis, Prabhupāda. He said makaradhvaja at this point would be poison and today you said that it was poison.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that your heart is very strong, therefore what is the question of dying? They all say that point. Their whole contention is on the heart, that because the heart is strong, they say there's no question of dying. And actually that agrees with the astrologers. None of the astrologers say you will die now. They all say it's a difficult time but they never say that you will die now.

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that you'll overcome this.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And your disciples all say that you will overcome. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Heart is strong then where is the question of tuberculosis? (laughs) Wrong present (?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Somebody said tuberculosis.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So let us try and in some way induce him to extend, as far as he can, and then we'll go on whatever day he says he must go on.

Bhakti-caru: Actually he agreed to stay about three, four more days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh. If he agrees to stay a couple more days, we should take advantage of that to give you more time to gain strength. Not that we're overly eager to rush out of here. Our plan is that we want to go where he is, that we want you to remain under his treatment. That is our point. If he was willing...

Prabhupāda: No, no, if after all he wants to go, why not leave earlier?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the whole idea of going is that the medicine is supposed to be having effect. So the longer we have for the medicine to take effect, the stronger you should become. And the stronger you become, the easier will be the journey. It would only be a question of one or two days extra, because in any case he'll want to leave after a few days. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some rest, backside, I can sit down.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whatever is available... (Bengali) (break) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) I am asking to come to Māyāpur, and he has agreed. So today give him twenty-five.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty-five.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-five.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty-five. Okay. Remember that Gītā Pratiṣṭhāna conference? So it's starting tomorrow. I just happened to notice Mr. Rāma-Kṛṣṇa Bajaj is here and Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa is here. So probably tomorrow they'll want to come and see you.

Prabhupāda: Where they are beginning?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're all staying in the guesthouse. They've rented the whole guesthouse. The conference is being held in the same room that they held the science conference in. It's a very good credit for us that they're doing this. I just thought I would inform Your Divine Grace. So I'll just give him now twenty-five rupees.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, the fact that he turned to Communism... Probably he's intelligent but frustrated. That's why they turn to this Communism. And he has a very good upbringing, so much association. I mean Vrindavan had no association, but M.M. had a lot of association, not only with Your Divine Grace but with your Guru Mahārāja and Godbrothers. So perhaps with proper, little cultivation, he might...

Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme and ask him if he wants to discuss this with me.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. (whispering) Why "phish-phish"? Why not talk?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Why whispering?" Upendra was saying that not going is all right, but the fact that you are rejecting medicine, that is not good. So I was saying that I don't really think that you're rejecting the medicine, but you're taking that position so that we settle in between. (laughing) I can understand that you appreciate that the medicine is doing some good, but in order to get us to agree...

Brahmānanda: It is you who were saying that by Prabhupāda's not going, then we're at a loss for medicine. So then Prabhupāda said, "All right, then no medicine."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Also Prabhupāda's saying no medicine so that if we say, "All right, stay, but take the medicine," then Prabhupāda will...

Bhakti-caru: He'll agree to that, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental bargaining. (laughs) Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have seen you dealing with the most tricky people in the world. I saw you dealing with that Mr. Nair, and then with that other man, Mr. Ratnaparki? So I can understand that when you say, (laughs) "No medicine at all," that we will then simply say, "Well, please, Śrīla Prabhupāda, just take medicine and then you stay here," and you'll say, "All right." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: I want simply once parikrama.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No idea of... He has no authorized.

Brahmānanda: One thing they recognize is that the young people of India, they want to see the experience of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Arjuna in the beginning was bewildered and in the end he agreed. So that experience... I said, "Yes, and we have had the same experience, because as Westerners, in the beginning we didn't even the know the name Kṛṣṇa, and now we are serving Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours a day. So obviously there was some great experience. So that has been given to us by Śrīla Prabhupāda." And then he recognized, "Yes." I said, "So we are... We can actually give our experience." So then he suggested that some publication be made actually dealing with the experiences.

Prabhupāda: That we are giving. This Bhāgavata discourse...

Brahmānanda: I think now that our books are coming out in the Indian languages and are being distributed, I think this will cause young Indians...

Prabhupāda: Young Indians are not... They have already published these things. Scientific investigation of matter.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Brahmānanda: Yes. And we went to visit one colonel, full colonel, in charge of supply. He's a very pious men. He tells his soldiers not to drink, not to eat meat, and he teaches them Bhagavad-gītā. So we went to go speak with him, and he was very impressed. He himself admitted that he was taking eggs and drinking tea. So I requested him to stop this, and then you'll be on the..., purely. And he could understand that. He agreed. He said, "From now on, from this day, I will stop." And we showed him the film, "Hare Kṛṣṇa People," and he was very impressed. He called another officer in, and they called their wives to come to the base, and we showed it a second time. And then he wanted some of our books. I gave him Bhagavad-gītā and Hindi Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and then told him about our Gurukula here in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: How much he paid? (?)

Brahmānanda: Well, he was wanting to pay, but Nava-yogendra Mahārāja said it's all right... We asked him to become a member. He didn't want to pay so much money. So we gave him... Because he was an important officer, we gave him. Then he offered... He has some land 25 miles from Delhi, and he said, "We would like to give it for a Hindu temple."

Prabhupāda: Who was there, this meeting?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then make this arrangement, one week or ten days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing that. We have already agreed to that. Actually I could see from the very beginning that that's what we're going to do, but sometimes I feel it is my duty to give good arguments for some opposite opinion just to see both sides. Ultimately we are prepared to be with you wherever you want to be. To us that is home. That is our great pleasure, to be with you. So we're making that arrangement, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (offers obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that without finishing this business we shall go?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without finishing the business of these, this legal business? Oh, yes, this legal business is not what would keep us here.

Prabhupāda: Then how it will... How it will be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean it can be executed in Māyāpur as well.

Prabhupāda: How?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Das, our friend from Calcutta, can come. It's pretty much now... It's already drafted, and... It would just have to be redrafted again on new stamp paper or the words would have to be changed. It would have to be retyped on stamp paper from Bengal side. The basic writing is...

Prabhupāda: That means unfinished despite unfinished.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are speaking in Hindi.

Akṣayānanda: Everything's in Hindi, the whole thing. No English whatsoever.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then there's no chance of our men becoming...

Akṣayānanda: Our men can't understand anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good advantage.

Akṣayānanda: But for the purpose of maintaining our proper position, we can sit there and hear what they're saying, and when an opportunity is there we can rectify.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Bhakti-prema may agree with them.

Akṣayānanda: No, no, he's... No. No, no

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He used to be a Māyāvādī.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. But he understands fully this philosophy and accepts it.

Prabhupāda: So this is the position. The whole Vṛndāvana is full of Māyāvādīs. We have to be very, very cautious and careful. I was there. That Brahmānanda protested against that Aurobindo. And then "Don't speak of Gītā."

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jayādvaita?

Jayādvaita: I agree. This...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like our Back to Godhead magazine. For a while it was becoming very compromised. Actually it was becoming a little compromised. And just because we wanted... The editors were thinking that they should make it more popular, more acceptable. But our conclusion of all the GBC men was: "Popular or not, we are trying to present the ideal for the topmost men. There must be some ideal institution in the world." So we should keep it pure. And those who want the pure product, they will come and take. And others, at least they will know this is pure.

Jayādvaita: Everybody else is already a hodgepodge, so they'll allow anyone to speak because they don't have any scruples. But if we are very strict, if we don't allow anyone who's not strictly following...

Prabhupāda: Where is Brahmānanda?

Jayādvaita: Brahmānanda? Brahmānanda is resting.

Prabhupāda: So, I am on the deathbed. I may go away at any moment. Then... Now it is up to you to give protection to the sanctity of our institution. Who else is there from the GBC?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara, Jagadīśa.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I mean in case I do not increase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. Okay. In case you don't increase. Because I don't think we can say... Unless we want to say that this kavirāja is absolutely wrong. But if we accept...

Prabhupāda: You cannot say wrong or right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with that. So we have to say, "in case." So what is your point, Śrīla Prabhupāda? That in case you don't gain strength...

Prabhupāda: Than what I will do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, why don't we decide that when the time comes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cross that hurdle when the time comes.

Prabhupāda: It is already come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, no, because we're still saying "in case."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Because I don't feel appetite for anything except that little one sip barley and one sip juice.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's difficult. This means you will stop practically getting any nourishment at all now. So then we should call the Calcutta kavirāja. Prabhupāda's not being able to maintain his program. So we'll call the kavirāja from Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because now you are not able to keep to the program which he fixed up. And this other kavirāja, he can't do anything this difficult. Usually by this time you've drank about 400 cc's of liquid or more. Today you haven't even drank 100 cc's yet. So in this way you will go back to about two or three weeks ago, when you were planning to depart. So that's a little premature, because we agreed that we will first go through with this program which the kavirāja has given. So now it seems like it's too difficult to do that, so we should call him so that he can...

Prabhupāda: What is the use of calling him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The use of calling is that he... According to him... This is what I understood. The main problem you're feeling is that you have no strength. This is the sum and substance. There's no strength.

Prabhupāda: So how he can give strength?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can he give strength? Just like makara-dhvaja is for giving strength.

Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja was not giving strength.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...your letter with enclosures as on reverse. Kindly accept yourself and convey my humble obeisances to my ailing father, and Lord Kṛṣṇa will protect and we have nothing to worry about. Without touching details right now, as desired by you, I beg to submit that a meaningful 'further discussion...' " Remember, I had mentioned to him that we could have a further discussion if we had any questions, "...that a meaningful 'further discussion' could be ensued between us on the subject of settlement upon receipt of a confirmatory letter from the bank concerned either to you or to me directly as to the scheme purported to have been devised by ISKCON. No discussion, perhaps you will agree, without bank's letter, will serve any purpose towards a settlement. If it is a fait accompli, I feel sure the bank's letter describing the arrangements in so many words might bear salutary effect on our further discussions as propounded by your good self."

Prabhupāda: Hm. So?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one point about... Actually, I simply asked him for the name of his bank and the bank account, but he doesn't seem to want to give that at this point. Seems to have some other idea. Very legally worded letter. "3) Panchashil. I do not stay there, albeit my daily visits. Once I have read somewhere, not the copy sent by you, this draft conveyance, and this is a bunkum." He calls it a bunkum. Are you familiar with that word, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I think it means like a hoax or something. "The wordings are incoherent and contradictory. The assigners, promoters, are described as overlord. The lessers, superlord, and assignees, purchasers, have been reduced to a transient resident, if not fugitive debtor. In my opinion, causes are there for criminal prosecution against the promoters. Without capable and competent lawyers' help, this legal matter should not be handled. Until then, keep it in abeyance. Your all the papers as mentioned..." I sent him a copy of the scheme, Śrīla Prabhupāda, as well as a copy of the draft... "All of your papers, as mentioned, are sent herewith back to you." He didn't choose to keep them. "While awaiting the bank's comments, I beg to remain respectfully yours, M.M. De." He says, "The enclosures are sent under ordinary post to avoid heavy postage in this cover." He decided to send them by a separate post because it would have been a few extra paisa.

Prabhupāda: Unless the bank confirms, he does not take it seriously. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So? Where did you go?

Lokanātha: I went to Mathurā. I went first to Vṛndāvana and looked for the carts. They were not very good kind. They were made for rough loads. So I went to Mathurā and spoke to one farmer. He had a fairly big size cart and two strong bullocks, and he asked for a hundred rupees. He wouldn't come down. So ultimately I agreed for a hundred rupees. And he will reach tonight at eleven o'clock. I asked him to start immediately, but they have pūjā—as we have go-pūjā, they also have oxen pūjā today—so he will only reach at eleven o'clock, and he will be with us all day long tomorrow. I had to give him one day or maximum...

Prabhupāda: So what do you think?

Lokanātha: Of what?

Prabhupāda: How many carts you have?

Lokanātha: I got just one today, one for you, and those who serve you, they could also sit besides you in the cart, and the rest could do kīrtana around the bullock cart, and the whole unit, bullock cart and saṅkīrtana group, will move together.

Prabhupāda: So what we have to pay?

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And when you go in procession, have kīrtana.

Lokanātha: Yes. That would be nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Originally, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we talked of this idea, we were considering going with a few vehicles so that we could go to many holy places all over India. I still think that that's the best idea, and Lokanātha also agreed with me when we talked about this. Because bullock carts... Of course, we're not in a big rush, but if we would like to go to a few pla..., all over India, we can go very comfortably with a few vehicles. Prabhupāda can have the back seat of a vehicle, travel very comfortably.

Lokanātha: I could see this Volkswagen we have. They don't have any seats. It's all flat. They already have mattresses, and it's kind of a big room.