Prabhupāda: Even the most insignificant creature, he is living there. Paramātmā. So if these three things are understood clearly, then he becomes peaceful. This is the peace formula. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and Vedic literature. Simply one has to learn. Just like in arithmetic. There is all mathematical calculation, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, this or that, fraction. One has to learn. So Bhagavad-gītā is so nice book and it is accepted. Not that because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are advocating for Bhagavad... No. It is accepted by scholarly section, religious section, not only in India, but all over the world. Perhaps you know. In every country there are thousands of Bhagavad-gītā translation, in every language, in English, in French, in German, all languages.
Advocate Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No.
Guest (4): Then what system do you advocate?
Prabhupāda: Of course, so far Vedic culture is concerned, they advocated monarchy because the one man's training, a good king guided by the brahminical culture, although it was autocratic sometimes, but because the king was very cultured there was no possibility of doing any harm to the citizens. But democracy means simply they are given the post by votes, and they may be all rascals. Then what they can think of good to the citizens?
Guest (4): Mahārāja, don't you think that monarchy (unclear)
Prabhupāda: No, that is also not possible. And therefore we are training people to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. And when the Kṛṣṇa conscious people will elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders there will be peace and prosperity. And now, because the minority is Kṛṣṇa conscious, they cannot elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders and therefore havoc is being played.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. That is not.
Himāvatī: In one of the Back to Godhead magazines
Prabhupāda: That is not. He advocates that.(?) Direct association with Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Why previously?
Himāvatī: We want to say that previously she had done some chanting.
Prabhupāda: We don't find any such thing. Professor Sanyal was not very much advanced. He committed so many blunders.
Himāvatī: You heard about that article?
Prabhupāda: No.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prof. Kotovsky: But if you would, will have many, even many followers, how far this adaption of Kṛṣṇa consciousness by many American boys would affect the politics of their attitude, for instance, to such a bearing problem of America as Vietnam War?
Guest: Correct. They'll never be the one who will ever advocate any war because they know this war itself is a wrong thing.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't say, "Avoid war." But unnecessary war is avoided. Just like Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to fight. It was necessary. It was necessary.
Guest: To get rid of extra evil.
Prabhupāda: It was necessary. So nothing is avoided, but everything is utilized for proper purpose. Nothing is rejected. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. This is fact, that Kṛṣṇa never advocated that "Let there be stop of war." No. When there is necessity, absolute necessity, there may be war but for their good purpose, not by the whims of the politicians, no.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Why? There are so many books. They are advocating that "You can have sex life. It doesn't matter whether it is mother or sister or daughter. Why should be restriction there? It is bodily necessity. That's all." They are advocating. There are so many books. You do not know? Huh?
Sudāmā: Yes, there are.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are books. In India, what to speak of other, in India some European or American book was written on the theme that a man fell in love with his daughter. And that book is the greatest, highest selling book. What is that book? You know?
Śyāmasundara: Lolita? There was one, Lolita it was called, about...
Sudāmā: The same theme.
Śyāmasundara: The same theme.
Sudāmā: It was also very popular in America.
Prabhupāda: Why shall I become old?" (break) I accept a new opportunities to preach it from everything. That is my philosophy. And it has become successful. If I had taken this position from India... I was trying. In India also, I tried. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are very respectable man, and people like you. You preach Bhagavad-gītā. You stand with your photograph. There is Bhagavad-gītā. Why don't you preach Bhagavad-gītā? Now politics is finished. You have got independence." But this politics is so sweet to these politicians, that until he was killed, he could not give up politics, until he was killed. He was advocating non-violence, but he was forced to die by violence. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. He was forced to accept partition of India. He was so much baffled, but still, he would not give up politics until he was killed. On the day of his death, in the morning, because he had so many letters, so many secretaries, so he said, "I am very much useless. I want to die." He said like that. And actually, in the evening he was killed. He was thinking that "My next solace is only death," because he could understand, "I have created simply problems.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have argued. All these European boys, I had to argue with them. (laughter)
Lucille: (indistinct) in Bombay and the first thing he did was argue with me.
Prabhupāda: Big, big swamis, they are advocating, "Eat meat."
Guest (2): Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Ramakrishna Mission, they eat meat.
Guest (2): I don't think so.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Lucille: I don't know about the swamis, but I know a lot of the Vedāntists do.
Guest (2): That's news to me.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vivekananda says, "What is that, meat-eating?" Kṛṣṇa says, makes division.
Prabhupāda: This Jawaharlal(?) was implicated with his sister, and some say with his daughter also, and he was the prime minister. This is their position. In our Indian system, education is mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: every woman except your own wife, all mothers. That is education. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). Either your mother or sister or daughter, you don't live together alone. These are education. And they're freely advocating sex life. What is the (indistinct) difference? In India they're doing, so many leaders. (indistinct), it can be done. The leaders are speaking while doing that. No discrimination, just like hog. No discrimination. (break)
Jayatīrtha: ...in Īśopaniṣad that modern-day educational system means culturing avidyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, avidyā.
Jayatīrtha: So they're spending so much, so many billions of rupees, simply to culture ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Making rogues and guṇḍās and hippies, that's all. The science is manufacturing atom bomb, and philanthropy is becoming hippies. This is the result of education. They are manufacturing compounds, strong contraceptive method, infallible contraceptive method. Suffering only. What is the time now?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Asses, mūḍhāḥ. Unless one comes to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we don't give any value to so-called education, advancement of knowledge. We don't give any value. Our only formula is harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no value. Immediately reject him. He has no value of his life. We are advocating Kṛṣṇa consciousness not on sentiment, on the value of life. That these men are being carried away by whims without any value of life. Let us save them. That is our mission. Just like a, a foolish person is going in, on the ocean. So it is: "Oh, why you are going that way? Where you are going? You are a madman." This is the duty.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly these rascals are going to hell and we are trying to save them. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: So he wanted to stop these material activities. Jagan mithyā. Śaṅkarācārya never advocated for nationalism, for starting schools or college, hospital... Never. Why? Why should he do? If we say jagan mithyā, then why should we bother all these things?
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So who is following Śaṅkarācārya? And they say that "We are followers of Śaṅkarācārya." And they are engaged. Śaṅkarācārya follower means he must become first of all sannyāsī, then talk anything else. So who is taking, going to do that?
Reporter: And all those Śaṅkara Maṭha and Śaṅkarācārya's various places in India, don't live as jagat was mithyā. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No, jagan mithyā... We don't say jagan mithyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Carnegie's name I know.
Banker: He was one of the number one advocates of this philosophy, that if you are holy, then the money should be in your hands, because you can use it for better purposes.
Prabhupāda: That is a good philosophy.
Banker: Therefore, then he started building libraries all over the country and everything else, besides his steel company. But this has been a big fight. It still is a big fight. Today you have the people who support welfare and those who oppose it.
Prabhupāda: No. We don't oppose wealth.
Banker: Welfare. Payment to people who don't work.
Prabhupāda: No, everyone should work. Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department. These are different parts. So all these departments must work for the total benefit of the body. That is our philosophy.
Prajāpati: Actually they are so demoniac, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are advocating so many birth control, and so many things, and they say this...
Prabhupāda: Simply rascaldom. Simply. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). They are going to the darkest region. Because they are killing, they will have to suffer. That they do not know. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man going forward will fall into the ditch. So this is their rascaldom.
Bali Mardan: Can a person who eats meat obtain a human birth? Or he must be put back into animal species, meat-eaters?
Prabhupāda: No, he'll become animal, and he'll be killed.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We are not advocating meat eating. You do not understand. We are saying that even if you don't eat meat, you cannot decry the arrangement in the Vedas. That you cannot do.
Indian man (3): But this is not Vedic, eh...
Prabhupāda: This is Vedic!
Indian man (3): ...that you can...
Prabhupāda: In the yajña, not that all yajña. But in the... Some yajñas, there is recommendation. It is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ.
Dr. Patel: Yajña-śiṣṭa aśinaḥ. Not meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Aśinaḥ.
Dr. Patel: This M.N. Raya, you know, who advocated that humanism, for which he was banished by the Communist fellows because the root of M.N. Raya was in Hinduism, no? After all? It is very difficult for us to think about so-called Communism. But religion itself is Communistic.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We, we don't think in terms of Hinduism. We don't think.
Dr. Patel: No. But we have been actually brought up religiously as communists, religious communists.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual communists. Religious, religious upon strict sense of religion. Religion means spiritualism.
Dr. Patel: Yes, spiritual communism.
Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. Other things are cheating. If they have no sense of God, they do not know what is God, how to abide by the orders of God, that is not religion.
Prabhupāda: So where is equal rights? Even in Russia, there is managerial class and laborer class. Where are equal rights? Why there are managers? Yes. I have seen it. The managerial class and the laborer class. So where is equality? Why the managerial class? You know that? There must be required. The old women, they are sweeping the street. Why not Mr. Lenin come and sweep the street? Why he is sitting in a big palace and the poor woman has been engaged to sweep the street? Where is equality? What advancement they have made? We are following opiate. They are following opiate, Lenin's rascal's philosophy. That's all. That is also opiate. But where is equality? That is also opiate. You are advocating equality, but where there is a man manager and another man is working. So why you are accepting this nonsense philosophy being opiated by rascal Lenin?
C. Hennis: Well, I suppose they are adopting the principle that you yourself advocated just now. You said that the proper society is one which is...
Prabhupāda: That means lacking brain, lacking brain, lacking brain.
C. Hennis: But the whole world apart from the human beings, the animal world is entirely composed of beings that eat one another. The only beings that are never eaten are whales and elephants. All the others are eaten by some bigger animal, and I suppose that the justification that they have for maintaining slaughterhouses is that it is just a cleaner way of killing than for a lion to jump on the back of an antelope.
Prabhupāda: What is that? What is the supposed.
Prabhupāda: That is described in the SB.., sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Sammohāya, just to bewilder the atheist class of men. The atheist class of men, we're advocating "There is no God." So He appeared before them... And they were killing animals like anything. So Buddhadeva inaugurated the non-violence. So therefore He is God Himself, and He is teaching, "There is no God." This is rather cheating.
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Not teaching, but cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) So sometimes... Just like a child does not want to go to school. So the teacher says, "No, no, you don't require to go to... There is no need. But what do you see in your front?" "That's a cow." "Now, what is this?" "A leg." "Then what is next?" "Second leg." "What is this?" "Third leg." So he is teaching mathematics, but practically, he says, "You don't require go to school. You just count the legs of the cow, that's all." It is like that.
Prabhupāda: Because advanced, so-called advanced. But our foodstuff is to accept the remnants of foodstuff which is eaten by Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. Kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Just like in this temple, we don't eat anything. Neither we eat grass, neither we eat animals. We eat kṛṣṇa-prasāda. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You give Me these foodstuffs." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are not eating on the material platform. We are eating on the spiritual platform. Because we are eating, if there is anything sinful, that is Kṛṣṇa's. We are taking His remnants of foodstuff. So this is our philosophy. We don't advocate vegetarianism or nonvegetarianism. We advocate, "Eat Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, the remnants of foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa." This is our philosophy. And apart from this philosophy, because one living entity is food for another living entity, it does not mean that I shall eat my children also. There is discretion, that human being, they should offer these fruits, vegetables, milk as it is prescribed in the śāstra to God, Kṛṣṇa, and take.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore Indian civilization is that you take rice, wheat, ḍāl, vegetable, a little milk, whatever protein and vitamin A,B,C,D can be available, that is sufficient.
Guest (2): Dr. Malhotra has done excellent work on nutrition and he has done two books. In those books he has advocated that milk is not the only best diet. Balanced food, you can have by I mean ḍāls and so many other sources.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Milk is not the only one.
Prabhupāda: In, in, in your Punjab, in United Province...
Guest (2): At least his (indistinct) approach it is not one sided.
Guest (1): Swamiji, my main question is although spiritualism is the Absolute Truth, can we not in some way make spiritualism in such a way, modify it in such a way, as to help the common people?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, before that other ācāryas also, they accept. They never say that "This was not in the original scripture. It has been changed." You don't find any such statement of the ācāryas. The best thing, therefore, if you want a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā is coming without any contradiction, change, for the last five thousand years. You accept it. Other scriptures are (unclear), and there are so many doubts, so many interpretations. So, if you want real religious system, this is the scripture spoken directly by God, and accepted by all the ācāryas, so take it. If you are really after God, so you take enlightenment from this perfect scripture. If you want truth, it doesn't matter wherefrom it is coming. I must accept the truth.
Prabhupāda: So from the very beginning, three years, four years, five years old, children they are being trained up. It is not that cent percent men will be trained up spiritually. But even a small percentage ideal men there are in the society, at least people will think, "Oh, here is ideal." But there is no such facility. We are training, sometimes people laugh, "What is this nonsense?" They criticize.
These leaders of the society do not encourage. Yesterday I was talking with one priest. So about illicit sex life he said that "What is the wrong there? It is a great pleasure." We are training, we are advocating that illicit sex is sinful. Our first condition is that one must give up these four things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. This is my first condition before accepting. So they agree and they follow.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: "Please accept me." The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don't mind, I don't find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?
Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But a pure devotee goes back to home. There is no more material body. That is the... So we are advocating that you come to this stage where you will not to have accept this material body. Then you are really happy. And if you want to enjoy the flickering, illusory māyā, then you are subjected to the māyā. You are enjoying as American. Then you enjoy as a dog. That is māyā's control. But if you don't enjoy material things then you become purified. You come to the eternal life, back to home, back to Godhead. But they are not willing to give up this material enjoyment. That is the defect. So it requires education. It requires knowledge. It requires training.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. When you are trying to be a lawyer or barrister, that does not mean you are barrister. When you are a student of law you cannot say that "I am barrister," or "advocate," that you cannot say. You are trying to be, that is another thing. But while they are trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is the misleading. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). "One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men." What is the use of such leading? If the leader is blind, how he will do well to other blind men?
Guest 3: Beethoven was deaf.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Guest 3: Beethoven was deaf.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will turn your America as Vaikuṇṭha. And that is your duty, to save your countrymen. I think the America is... The people were pious in their past life. They have got this opulent position. Now they should use this opulent position. They have no poverty. They haven't got to work so hard, and they take advantage of this knowledge. Other countries, they are poor. They are busy how to earn their livelihood. But your country, because you are favored on account of your previous pious activities, you should utilize this position. People are embarrassed for improving their economic condition in other countries. Of course, if one is cultured, he is not embarrassed in any condition of life. But without Kṛṣṇa culture, poverty-stricken people, they are very much hampered. So you have no such problem. Therefore you can utilize your position, this opulent position, for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As a learned scholar you should advocate this cause.
Prabhupāda: See? Just see the foolish people. They are working so hard for nothing. Everything will be finished after this death, and he will become a cat and dog or a tree. You see? (break) ...sometimes advocate the materialists.
Kuruśreṣṭha: Sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, even we explain that, and they can seem to understand; still they won't do anything about it.
Prabhupāda: So you have to constantly poke them. These rascals. Just like one man is sleeping. You have to call him constantly, "Mr. Such, Mr. Such, wake up, rascal. You are sleeping. Why?" This is our business.
Reporter: This four-division society that you advocate is contrary to everything in American tradition. How can that be accepted in America?
Prabhupāda: That has to be trained up. Just like in your country there are medical, professional men, the engineering class of men, the lawyers class of men, similarly, you can train how to become a first-class man. The training process is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is Bhagavad-gītā? Bring it. Śamo damaḥ titikṣa satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam. The... Just like you have got formula how to train medical man, how to train in the mechanical man, or different department of knowledge, similarly, you can train how to become first-class man. How to become second-class man. The direction are already there. You can take advantage of the direction and train people as first-class, second-class, third-class.
Reporter: When does this training begin? In the very youngest age or...
Prabhupāda: Training, every training should begin from childhood. Just like you send your boys and girls to school. So any educational system should be begin from childhood.
Prabhupāda: No, why they should oppose? What is the reason? If they are Christian or Jewish, religious men, so we are advocating, "You chant the holy name of God," so why there should be objection? Is there any reason for such objection? What is the objection?
Reporter (1): Some of the objections are that the followers of the Hare Kṛṣṇa sect are, on the streets or in the airports, are bothering people.
Prabhupāda: The airport itself is a botheration, so much sound, so much accident. So why this little botheration they cannot tolerate? That means intolerance. It is full of botheration, and because we are chanting, they very much disturbed? We don't chant in the airport, but we ask people that "Here is a very good book. You will benefit. If you like, you can take." So what is the wrong there? Tell me what is the wrong? If I give you something very nice, is that, I mean to say, wrong? You read any book. We have got fifty books. You find out any fault in that. If we are distributing something, bad literature which is against the social welfare, then you can object. But you see. Bring all our books here, and you will see. Any page you open and you will find something good. Why you are denying to distribute such literature for the benefit of the people in general? What is the wrong there?
Prabhupāda: So do it now. It is not difficult. You can see the egg's chemical, and just combine little chemicals and put it in the incubator. Let life come. Hm? What is your answer? The advocate speaks.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Yes, we are working on it." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Working on it. Eh? What is the answer? How long you will work? Is there any time limit? Eh? What is that work? What is the answer? Hm? How long you will work?
Harikeśa: I don't think anybody is trying to make an egg.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Why not? Why they are not making, trying?
Indian: I was talking with a judge. He is a Sikh gentleman here. So he told me that "In the freedom we all helped, and I was not a judge at that time. I was ordinary advocate. So I play a nice role to get them freedom, so they appointed me a judge after that." Now he is judge since last fifteen years.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Cyavana: Is that Makhajee?
Indian: No.
Brahmānanda: The Indians had the experience of the independence in India to draw on for inspiration and also for their strategies and so on, to guide the Africans.
Prabhupāda: And now they are trying to drive away Indians.
Prabhupāda: No. They're seeking—the same example—the enjoyable thing, on the platform of shell of the coconut, fibers of the coconut. They do not know that within the shell, within the fiber, there is coconut. That they do not know. You said two sides. But they do not know the other side. They only know the one side, the body. There will be synthesis when there are two. But they have no two. They simply one subject matter, the body, and that is useless struggle. It is just like Māyāvādīs. Neti neti: "Not this, not this. Not this, not this." Therefore they advocate revolution, that something is going on for some days; again revolution. That means "Not this." Neti neti. The experiment says.... Experiment. Everyone is doing that. They are trying to derive happiness through some system or idea of adjustment, but it becomes spoiled and useless after some time. Therefore they say another revolution required.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? One time you were explaining that Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was speaking with the Kazi, He convinced him about that the Koran does not actually advocate meat-eating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Because the Muslims, they also cannot eat meat unless it is sacrificed in the mosque. There is no recommendation that you purchase from the market and the animal be slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some mention not to eat many animals but eat one...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I... I couldn't remember.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Arabia they were to eat animal but to save him from so many dangerous and sinful life—he has to kill so many goats—better kill one life, a camel or a cow. Camel is big animal. So if you kill one animal, camel, it is equal to fifty goats.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...their society, and they are advocating, "No temple or Deity worship." So one boy, so he was a member of this society. So there is Śītalā-mātā, the goddess of smallpox. So he had some trouble in the house, smallpox. So he thought of going to the Śītalā-mātā's temple. So he's entering the temple and seeing in this way, "Mother, I am your devotee but they will tax me. Therefore I am going out." (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this man, he is afraid of God, but he has to preach there is no God. So he was feeble.
Hṛdayānanda: In every class he would smoke at least four or five cigarettes. He was so nervous. (break)
Prabhupāda: The living entity is victimized, and in this life you can adventure to conquer over it. This is human life. The cats and dogs, they cannot fight with māyā, but a human being, he can fight. So if we don't fight, we don't take that adventure, then we remain cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they fight amongst themselves but not with the māyā. So aborigines, although they have got features of human being, they are no more than the cats and dogs. So they also fight amongst themselves.
Prabhupāda: So then our Vaiṣṇava's philosophy is perfect, because we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say vegetables. We are not advocating vegetarianism. We are advocating that "You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam." How perfect it is. We are not so nonsense that "Because we have become vegetarian, we are perfect." The goats are vegetarian.
Dr. Patel: (laughter) And we are indirectly vegetarians if we eat goats.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Even if we vegetarian are, then how you become big? The goats are vegetarian. Huh? Apadāni catuṣ-padām. This vegetable is meant for the catuṣ-padām, for the animals, four-legged animals. If somebody says that "Why shall I take this vegetable? It is meant for the animals. I shall take the animal." That is a good argument. Yes. So to become vegetarian is not ahiṁsā at all. It is a bogus theory. To become a devotee and take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, that is perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So automatically.
Prabhupāda: That was the system. The father gives to his heart content, as much as possible, to the daughter. The Kṛṣṇa's mother was royal prince, so her father gave so many elephants, so many horses, so many chariots. That was the system. (break) This śrāddha ceremony. That is also, feeding the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly person, poor man, relative. Lavishly they spend money during three occasions: birth, death, and marriage. During birth the father spends; the marriage, father spends; and death, the son spends. This is the system. So social reformation, but there is no idea how the society will be happy. There is no idea. They are trying to remove this intoxication, LSD, but do not see the cause why LSD has come. They do not try to stop that cause. When the cause is effective, then they are disturbed with the effect. This is the defect. Neither they'll take advice. So how they'll be able to.... Big, big officer, drawing high salary, that's all. There is no effect. Neither there can be any effect. It is not possible. They do not know. Neither they want it. So we are advocating, "Remove these four sinful activities," so nobody will agree.
Prabhupāda: So many. This tail, dog's tail. Either you become sannyāsī or gṛhastha or anything, the tail is this side. You may grease it as much as possible, but the whole tendency is sex, that's all, in different dresses only. The objective is sex. This is going on. Some of them are openly declaring that "I am for sex," and some of them showbottle. But the objective is sex. This is the whole world. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha (SB 7.9.45). And the sannyāsīs like Rajneesh, they are advocating, "This is life—sex. By sex indulgence you get salvation." These Brahma-kumārīs. Not brahmacārī but Brahma-kumārī. Kumārīs are available very easily. And they keep. And the rich men, they are supplied with nice, beautiful kumārīs. They pay money. This is going on. Brahma-kumārī. They enjoy and they invite the karmīs to enjoy and get money. Kumārī is there; money is there, that's all. Everywhere this is going on.
Kathy Kerr: Do you advocate then that one deny the body? Like comforts and so forth, in order to...
Prabhupāda: No, why deny the body? Just like you are putting some type of dress. So dress is not unimportant. But real importance is you, the person. So where is that education about the real person? They are simply engrossed with the dress. This is going on. Such kind of mentality is there even within the cats and dogs. He's also thinking "I am this body." If a human being does not understand this fact, that he is not this body, he is changing his body, but he is spirit soul, then he is no better than the cats and dogs. We do not want to keep the human society in the category of cats and dogs. We want to raise them to the real understanding of his identification. That is our mission. It is neither Hindu religion or Muslim religion or.... This is science.
Prabhupāda: All the ācāryas, in their disciplic succession, they have written their comments. Only Śaṅkarācārya has not written. (laughs) He's impersonalist. He could not. Although the present generation of Śaṅkarācārya, they are living by reciting Bhāgavatam and making kadarthanā. This is going on.
Indian man: They advocate the advaita-tattva in Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: There is one Akandananda Swami in Vṛndāvana.
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: There is.... "Kṛṣṇa, kṛ means this, ṣṇa means this," like that.
Indian man: Even Rāmānujācārya sampradāya, Bhāgavata is not cited, quoted. Bhāgavata quotes. (indistinct) Rāmānuja does not quote from Bhāgavata in Śrī-bhāṣya.
Prabhupāda: Rāmānuja, here is Rāmān, Vīra-rāghavācārya is Rāmānuja.
Prabhupāda: But he's a rascal, and who accepts him, he's a rascal. How do you think that God is speaking to him? How do you accept it? How do you accept that God is speaking to him?
Devotee (2): Well, I don't accept it.
Prabhupāda: But you are advocating. Why do you accept this?
Devotee (2): He would say that he has turned his...
Prabhupāda: He would say, but you must know that he's talking foolish. How God can talk with him? What is the condition? Therefore you have to read books.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Tad vidhi praṇipātena.
Prabhupāda: No. God talks with whom? That is said. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānaṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). Those who have already become devotee of God and engaged in His service, He talks with him. Not he's a third-class fool. He doesn't talk with him. It is clearly stated, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām (BG 10.10), one who is twenty-four-hours engaged in the service of the Lord, with love and faith, God talks with him.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Question number twelve. "What is the role of rituals in religion? Are they to be discouraged as it is being advocated by some reformists or are they to be encouraged? If so, in what form? What is the role of rituals in religion?"
Prabhupāda: Ritual is a practice based on tapasya. Unless one undergoes the ritualistic ceremony, he remains unclean. But in this age, because it is practically impossible to induce people to take all these ritualistic processes, therefore it is recommended that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra." That is special advantage of this age, that by constant chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra he automatically becomes purified. That is recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The beginning is cleansing the heart, because we are impure on account of dirty things within our heart accumulated life after life in the animalistic way of life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's hard to understand that prasādam is (indistinct). (laughter)
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Not only the Africans, but this big, big professor, she is advocating that people should eat the bugs because they are good protein. She is experimenting different bugs to eat—the worm, the cockroach, the beetle—and she's making a big study, being paid money, how to feed people by eating insects.
Hari-śauri: They're already doing that. In France, you can buy cans of chocolate-coated ants, grasshoppers, frog's legs, bumblebees, fried bumblebees you can get. The French eat the most abominable foodstuff.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The English think that way, anyway.
Hari-śauri: They all do.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The English think the French eat abominable foods.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: This is the modes of nature, Śrīla Prabhupāda, acting.
Prabhupāda: Kadarya bhakṣaṇa.
Guest (4): Your Grace, how is it that the devotees who run the great temple of Jagannātha refuse to allow foreigners and certain low-caste people, when this was the favorite place of Lord Caitanya, who, like you say, advocated that it should be taught in every town and village?
Prabhupāda: Jagannātha Purī?
Guest (4): Are these administrators fallen?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's asking why can't your disciples from the West in particular, who are low-class particular people, like the Mohammedans, as traditional, they are not allowed in the Jagannātha Purī temple.
Prabhupāda: That is their fault. They should not have done so. That is their, what is called? Sectarian prejudice.
Prabhupāda: Here is a scientist. You have not studied properly. That is defect. So why defective knowledge you are declaring as knowledge? That is cheating. When you have perfect knowledge, then you declare. That is science.
Mr. Boyd: Then you advocate that Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be practiced in every action that you take.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is practice. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists at the present time, they say like this because their knowledge is simply illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Real knowledge is covered.
Indian man: This is Mr. Rajarao, advocate. I am also advocate You understand?
Indian man: Ramrao, T. Ramrao.
Indian man: I am the earliest life member.
Indian man: Extremely happy to have your darśana today.
Prabhupāda: About birth control. So birth control means the father and mother, the father and mother should not become father and mother unless they take full responsibility for the children to save them from the repetition of birth and death. This is the śāstric injunction. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The, everyone is, in this material world, is going on in the cycle of birth and death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Transmigrating from one body to another. And after many millions of years he gets the chance of becoming a human being. Now in this life he can stop the birth and death. Punar janma jāyate. That is Vedic culture. How to conquer over this process of repetition, birth and death.
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You cannot merge. You simply imagine. Merging means you merge in the spiritual atmosphere, but without ānanda you cannot stay there. Therefore you have to come back again to this material world. Suppose you are advocate and you are given some place without any practice. How long you will you remain there? If I say, "Please remain here happily without any practice." How long you'll remain? We want some activities. That is our nature, for ānanda. But here we are trying to get that ānanda, but that is temporary. That is not satisfying us. Therefore being disgusted we want to stop it and merge. But there is also temporary. Unless you go back to home back to Godhead, there is no complete life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and shows by His spiritual activities. He's playing with the boys, He's dancing with the girls, He's killing the demons, and so many activities. This is ānanda. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). They are all spiritual. You have read our Kṛṣṇa Book? Yes. There is everything. So as far as possible we are trying to give people the real knowledge from the śāstra. Now it is up to them to accept or take advantage of it.
Prabhupāda: At least, I am trying. But it is very difficult. We have to spoil hundreds of gallons blood before one comes to the point. It is very simple thing. Only our leaders of the society, they are sleeping. They are misguided themselves and misguiding others. That is the difficulty.
Indian man: Swamiji, here is another advocate
Prabhupāda: Now be advocate of Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) Yes. Janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra.
Indian man: How long you are going to be in Hyderabad?
Prabhupāda: I am going day after tomorrow.
Indian man: To?
Prabhupāda: I'm going to Delhi.
Indian man: Most of your time you are in the States.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just now I am coming from Europe. States, Europe, then here.
Prabhupāda: But not that willfully do something wrong. There is punishment. If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, does something wrong, that is excused. But they do willfully. They know it is wrong, still they do it. That is punished. Knowingly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī. Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. Asat. It is very, very bad. And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. This is going on. "All right." Here illicit sex... The bābājīs, I heard, they say, "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say like that. They take it as love. "Gopī's love," they say. "Gopī's used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?" They'll say. They get support from Kṛṣṇa līlā. Such rogues they are. Sahajiyās. There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on Kṛṣṇa līlā, paint picture." This is very nice. Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling." They take it as support of their sinful activities. I have seen personally. Anyone who is a woman-hunter, he's being addressed by his friend, "Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa." They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, we have got our books. You are philosopher. You can read. You can understand the whole thing. There is no question of "This devotee, that devotee." We are giving in writing. So we cannot deny that.
Dr. Kneupper: The question though is that there seems to be an advo..., that you advocate that there be a kind of Vedic society, that you are...
Prabhupāda: No, Vedic means knowledge, intelligent society. Why do you understand Vedic? Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda-vido jñānena. This Veda word coming from knowledge. When I say that "Here is a man of knowledge," so what is the objection? Is there any objection? If I say that "Here is Mr. such and such, a man of knowledge," so is there any objection?
Dr. Kneupper: Is there a what?
Prabhupāda: Is there any objection?
Prabhupāda: Final analysis is devotional service.
Mr. Malhotra: The paraṁ pada. They even advocate, means Lord Kṛṣṇa advocates, that all icchā, every type of icchā, icchā of even mukti...
Prabhupāda: That is negation. Just like you become freed from fever. So the symptoms of fever finished. But your healthy life begins. And after submission of the fever, still you lie down, that is not cured. Cure will be recognized when you work in your healthy state. That is bhakti. After becoming brahma-bhūya, the activities should be devotional service. Then it is healthy life, liberated life.
Mr. Malhotra: Without any ākāṅkṣā.
Prabhupāda: Our case is not that we are going to convert one Hindu to Christian, or Christian to Hindu. There is no meaning. Our is, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Even if you are Hindu, even you are Muslim, you are Christian, kick it out. That is our movement. We do not advocate that "You are Christian, you become Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, you become..." They are taking like that. But our movement is not that.
Guest (4): That's what I say.
Prabhupāda: Our movement is, either you are Hindu, either you are Muslim, either you are Christian, you kick out all this. Sarva-dharmān parityajya. Simply you become surrendered to Kṛṣṇa or God. This is our... And anyone who can do that, he is first-class religious. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Adhokṣaja, God's name is Adhokṣaja. You cannot see Him beyond your material perception. So if you are trained up to surrender to God, then you are religious. We do not say that you become Hindu or Muslim or Christian or this or that. We do not say so.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh. What business you are doing?
Guest (1): I am a lawyer by profession.
Prabhupāda: Oh, advocate.
Guest (1): Yes. Dealing with all these, mostly the sinners.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Guest (1): And I don't know how to avoid them.
Prabhupāda: No, sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Sve sve karmany abhirataḥ saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ. You have been put into that profession. That does not mean because you have to deal with some sinful men you have to become a sinful. That does not mean. (laughs) As your profession you can do.
Prabhupāda: Crocodile. (break) ...topless, is that freedom for the woman? The shop is open from ten to four a.m. I have seen the signboard in Texas. Is that freedom for the woman? They have no means of livelihood, and they come.
Satsvarūpa: But those women who advocate woman's liberation, they also say that that is not freedom for women, that the men are using the women.
Prabhupāda: Not only that, I have seen that if one woman is speaking... He (she) was sitting. I am going. "Oh, she has got a husband." Immediately I studied all this, this happening of her life. She was... She became very surprised that he's (she's), her friend had a husband.
Gurukṛpa: Thing is that the marriages are simply based on sex. Therefore the marriages don't last long.
Prabhupāda: So that is natural. If my sons dies, I will not be agitated? What is the wrong there?
Pṛthu-putra: Well, one advocate asked me this in Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: That is temporary. That is temporary, but it is natural. Suppose if I prick you, you feel some pain, but that is temporary. Āgamāpāyinaḥ anityāḥ. They come and go.
Hari-śauri: Well, you may say that I'm unhappy with the authority I've got now, but if you force me to accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness when I don't want it, then that will also make me unhappy.
Prabhupāda: No, if it is right thing, then I am right to force you.
Yogeśvara: So in other words, we're not advocating change of position. Just change of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: There is no change of position. You are rascal. You are thinking there is change of position. There is no change of position. The sun is everlastingly rising from the east. You cannot change that.
Yogeśvara: No, but let us say the people who are in Communist countries...
Prabhupāda: You bring any "ist." They are all rascals. Take it. Then you are intelligent. You can bring any ism, but they're all rascals. You cannot change the law of nature.
Hari-śauri: If a man is destined to be poor, he'll be poor.
Prabhupāda: You cannot change. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. That is the false ahaṅkāra. "Oh, I can become. I know something. I have become scientist. I have become politician." That is ahaṅkāra, simply. It is useless. You cannot do anything. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Then why do you say like that? And Kṛṣṇa says openly, mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He doesn't even recommend to worship demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). So these are imagination, concoction. They are not authorized. Vivekananda advocated daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā hundred years ago. So India is full of daridras. What Mothilal can do? What Vivekananda can do? This is all simply concoction. You cannot do anything.
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
The nature's law will go on. You cannot make a poor man a rich man, unhappy man an happy man. That is not possible. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Can you make a hog eat halavā instead of stool? Can you make? By nature's way it is going on. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). These are foolish person who concoct ideas. It is not possible. If you can do anything to the human society, induce him to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee.
Prabhupāda: That is the misfortune. They have left the authority, real authority. They have accepted some foolish man as authority. And that is the misfortune. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the supreme authority. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Why don't you take this? Distortion of our śāstra, distortion of authority, and bringing something foolish, and you are following. Not... You cannot follow. That is not possible. It is not possible. But you are making some authorities. You trying to follow. Even if you follow... That, the same example, just like Vivekananda was advocating daridra-nārāyaṇa. First of all this is a concocted word. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra? People have accepted. Nārāyaṇa is daridra?
Mr. Dwivedi: No.
Prabhupāda: Then how he manufactured this nonsense word? It is insulting. If I say, "Foolish Jetthi, President, rascal," so is it not insult? Similarly, if you say, daridra-nārāyaṇa, it is insult to Nārāyaṇa. But people are accepting daridra-nārāyaṇa. Just see how they are misled.
Prabhupāda: Vyabhicāriṇī. For woman, protection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you don't advocate this remaining sing..., these women remaining brahmacāriṇīs.
Prabhupāda: Therefore polygamy was allowed. Let them be taken care of, one husband, three wives. Therefore the kṣatriyas were taking hundreds of women. They had money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?
Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriyas, yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like we see, when Devakī was married, so many Devakī's young friends also went. They were taken shelter. The woman population is always bigger.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mahāṁśa: That... Yes, the advocate said if we go to the higher court, we will get a transfer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pay immediately and protest. They'll return immediately. Pay on protest.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Hm.
Mahāṁśa: Actually now, in the monsoons, we're going to take up a lot of cultivation. This is watermelon juice.
Prabhupāda: So give it to the Deity and distribute prasādam.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. It got a little spoiled while traveling. The tomatoes were squashed, but some of them are ripe.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It doesn't matter. So what is your news?
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is... That will be glorious. They are very mean-minded. All mean-minded class, they are assembled together. That's all.
Jayapatākā: You are like the sun, Śrīla Prabhupāda. In front of you the darkness cannot remain. Everything is visible as it is. Your words remove all doubt.
Prabhupāda: Even... He's... Even a simple Vaiṣṇava, he also advocated, "Why you are keeping?"
Jayapatākā: Yeah. Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī.
Prabhupāda: Although he's considered their man, but his business is Vaiṣṇava. He told the real truth. That is Vaiṣṇava. "Why you are holding? You cannot do anything."
Jayapatākā: Even they give it, they're not giving anything.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayapatākā: 'Cause they can't hold, anyway.
Prabhupāda: So give us little protection. That is my request.
Governor: We'll do it, no doubt. I'm meeting the Prime Minister tomorrow, and we are going to discuss that matter. This is my daughter. She stays in Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much. She is married?
Governor: She is married. She has a husband. She was also an advocate in... This is husband. He's in the government of India agricultural department now.
Prabhupāda: Very good. We are very much interested in agriculture.
Governor: He's a scientist. Very, very great scientist. He is Ph.D. of California University.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Governor: He studied in California, and he's a Ph.D. of California University.
Prabhupāda: I have got two, three Ph.D.s.
| Page Title: | Advocate Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 25 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=61, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 61 |