Prabhupāda: Method is there, the Ten Commandments, but they won't follow.
Prajāpati: Well, instead of being dissatisfied with the fact that people are sinful...
Prabhupāda: Method is already there in the Bible.
Prajāpati: They're dissatisfied with the fact that the...
Prabhupāda: But they don't follow it.
Prajāpati: ...that the air is polluted, that people are...
Pañcadraviḍa: So the hippies are dissatisfied that the air is polluted also. So what?
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes, who cares for the hippies?
Prajāpati: That, exactly, is the point. They're looking to Freud, they're looking to Marx, they're looking to everyone as an authority.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: I'll give you an example, In Zambia, the president, his name is Dr. Kenneth Kaunda. (break) He's exactly one of these persons. I met with him a couple weeks ago. He's John, John... What's his name? John Patrick? Śrīla Prabhupāda, you met him in London. And he's one of these philosophers. And his argument against our work and our preaching was that we shouldn't fly on jet planes because it pollutes the air. That was his argument
Acyutānanda: How did he get to Africa from London?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: He said he walked. (laughter)
Acyutānanda: And you killed so many insects under your feet.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: No, he goes on jets. But that's his argument to defeat our philosophy. This is how they argue. What he's saying is true. They actually argue like this, that we are, we are, our philosophy is not correct because we fly on jet planes. They have a completely materialistic... Yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, then how's he travel?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Well, for him, it's all right. He doesn't care. But for someone who's preaching a nonmaterialistic philosophy. So this is... These are the kind of people that are influencing people like Dr. Kenneth Kaunda, who's the president of a country, of Zambia, that has something like twelve million people.
Acyutānanda: Well, we say, "What is the difference between matter and spirit?"
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes, we argued all these points with him, but still, his ultimate...
Acyutānanda: So actually all these people are just word-jugglers who want to keep their position with the government.
Prajāpati: They have government.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes, and that's what they do.
Prajāpati: They have grants. They write books.
Acyutānanda: Just to keep their, their...
Prajāpati: But the books are being read.
Pañcadraviḍa: There's a saying that.
Prabhupāda: Eh?