Guest (1): Yesterday you said in our nice gathering, I remember, that we have to rise above body consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the Gītā.
Guest (2): And we have to be soul conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): Now, the idea of rising above body consciousness is to sell off the wild things, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, ahaṅkāra.
Guest (2): Ahaṅkāra
Guest (1): Now, that is one thing that is there in all scriptures. The Gītā also says that kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, ahaṅkāra must be checked. Now, if we move with that pride and arrogance that "We are the only correct calling. This is the only correct path," and that "You have to surrender from the beginning," now that only aggravates the pride in a person.
Prabhupāda: Then what can I do? Kṛṣṇa says... If you talk, two, I cannot answer. You talk with me, one.
Guest (2): No, we have talked with reasoning.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't talk, two. I cannot answer with all these reasons. Either you talk or then let him talk.
Guest (2): I am talking. I am talking now.
Prabhupāda: Then you talk. Let him talk.
Guest (2): So we have to tear all these vices that are connected with our body. That is our purpose of getting into either bhakti, or nāma, bhāgavata or whatever it may be.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): But in that way, if you talk from that, another way of ahaṅkāra and pride, then things cannot go far. Things cannot go far.
Prabhupāda: So shall I answer now? Now you stop; I answer. Now Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So even though you have got so many sinful life, Kṛṣṇa assures that "If you surrender unto Me I shall give you protection from the reaction."
Guest (2): That is another thing. Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa, yes. Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): Surrender to Kṛṣṇa, not surrender to all who...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We are saying not "Surrender unto me." We say, always saying, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Therefore the same word. I am not saying that "I have become Kṛṣṇa. I have become God. You surrender to me." We are preaching, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So we are not speaking differently from Kṛṣṇa. You try to understand. We are saying... Suppose if I say, "Give me a glass of water," and if you say, "Oh, give Swamiji immediately a glass of ...," the same thing.
Guest (2): Kṛṣṇa also says in Gītā that...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you try to understand this, that Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ: (BG 18.66) "only unto Me."
Guest (3): "I am the only one." Sarva-dharmān...
Prabhupāda: Again you are speaking. I am talking with him. Again you are speaking. No, no. I cannot answer in that way. Let him talk. No, no. You stopped me. Let him talk. Otherwise it is not possible. You put some question; he puts some question. It is not possible. Now Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Now what do you say? He is very proud?
Guest (2): He's entitled to be proud. If a person has said that...
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Guest (2): Let him say that, but it doesn't mean everybody will be able to follow. That doesn't mean that. Maybe He has said.
Prabhupāda: But then He doesn't say. You say, "If you follow me." Now it is your discretion to follow Him or not to follow Him. Kṛṣṇa said this to Arjuna. That does not mean everyone of the world, like Arjuna, surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Anyone, if he says, even Kṛṣṇa, or God, says, it is not that everyone follows that. That independence you have got. But our philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me," and we are imploring, we are begging persons, that "You please surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Now it is your discretion. Whether you surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Lord Śiva, that is your discretion. But our preaching method is we are trying to preach in the world, "Please surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is our position.