Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, one point is that earning or begging-beg, borrow or steal—that is not happiness. Because to acquire a standard of happiness you have to beg, you have to earn, or you have to steal, so that is not happiness.
Guest (1): No. What I am saying is that as long as a man lives...
Prabhupāda: But we are not talking of "as long as man lives." He lives eternally.
Guest (1): Yes, it is eternal.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): And it is eternal bondage there.
Prabhupāda: No. Bondage for so long you are in this material bondage.
Guest (1): In some form...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you have to understand in the spiritual...
Guest (1): Yes, even there is spiritual form, one has to live in certain form, without which...
Prabhupāda: That is natural form. That is not a conventional form. Just like you have dressed yourself with black coat. It is not your natural form. So material...