Kupa-manduka-nyaya: the logic of the frog in the well (Conv and Letters)

Expressions researched:
"Dr. Frog of the well" |"Dr. Frog's philosophy" |"frog in the well" |"frog philosophy" |"kupa-manduka" |"kupa-mandukya" |"toad in the well"

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

That Dr. Frog's philosophy. Atlantic was "That's all right, may be little one feet more than this well, that's all." He cannot imagine that millions of wells will be not compared. That he cannot begin.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee (2): Māyāvādīs, are they thinking like that, Kṛṣṇa is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, "He is ordinary man. A little better than me, that's all." That Dr. Frog's philosophy. Atlantic was "That's all right, may be little one feet more than this well, that's all." He cannot imagine that millions of wells will be not compared. That he cannot begin. He says, "Yes, it may be bigger, say one foot bigger, two feet bigger. All right, ten feet bigger, make compromise." That's all. He will never think that beyond his estimation. Never think. He'll simply calculate, "All right, if not one, two feet, three feet. All right, ten feet." And the friend will say, "No, no, it is very, very great."

Dr. Frog of the well. He cannot conceive what is Atlantic Ocean, but still he will theorize, "Atlantic Ocean may be so big, so big, so big."

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot think so many things because they are concentrated in a small area of even their own...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is we call kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya(?), the frog, Dr. Frog of the well. He cannot conceive what is Atlantic Ocean, but still he will theorize, "Atlantic Ocean may be so big, so big, so big." What experience you can get Atlantic Ocean living in a three-foot well? That is going on. And if I ask you, "What is the measurement of the space?" You cannot say that. You cannot say that. But there is measurement (indistinct). It may be unlimited for you, but as it is a created thing, there must be measurement. Any created thing has measurement. Unless they agree to submit... They must submit. Just like you have submitted, you are (indistinct), so you can understand God.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

So things are very complicated, and people should understand very rightly. They are, they are frog philosophy.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So things are very complicated, and people should understand very rightly. They are, they are frog philosophy. Frog philos... We say frog philosophy. Frog philosophy means that a frog who lives in the well, he has got experience of water, three cubic feet. And if he's given to understand that there is Atlantic Ocean, it is very difficult for him to understand. So on the whole, it is... But it is not very completely explained. And our point is this, or at least it will give some idea of the Bhagavad-gītā to the people.

No information, no research. That kūpa-maṇḍūka, this frog in the well. That's all.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So all the living entities are completely satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Because they are in the spiritual life. That is real life. Here it is covered. There is no such season as winter season, as summer season. Always spring. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), simply ānanda, blissful life of knowledge. What do they know, the scientists, about the spiritual life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is no...,

Prabhupāda: No information, no research. That kūpa-maṇḍūka, this frog in the well. That's all. They have no information of the Pacific Ocean. They are researching within the well. That's all. They have no information even of this material world. What do they know about the so many planets, so many, huge outer space? What do they know?

Kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya. Kūpa means well, and maṇḍūka means frog. "The frog in the well."

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What they are doing there? Something aimless. (some noise of people yelling a distance away) (break) ...because frogs never come to the... You will never find a frog in the ocean. Did you mark it?

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: You have got so many animals but never a frog.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Maybe they don't like the salt.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, frog is conspicuous by absence. There is no frog. Therefore that example is given. They have never seen what is the ocean. (laughs) So all these scientists, they are frogs. They have never seen what is the kingdom of God. Therefore this example, "Doctor Frog." Doctor frog is never visible in the ocean. They are visible only within this circle, well. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This example is available in Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in nyāya-śāstra. Kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya. Kūpa means well, and maṇḍūka means frog. "The frog in the well." The frogs, sometimes they are in river also, in bank of the rivers. But never in the ocean.

That kūpa-maṇḍūka, that frog is thinking, "It may be little bigger than this, little bigger than this." So how you can understand Atlantic Ocean within the well?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We are thinking in my terms. "Oh, such a huge universe! How a person can create? Where he got this tool? Where he's got the hammer? And how he constructed it?" I am thinking like that. Because I am limited, I am thinking in my limited way. So I am denying, "There is no God." Therefore we have to first of all understand acintya, inconceivable power. Then we can understand God. If I think, "God may be..." That kūpa-maṇḍūka, that frog is thinking, "It may be little bigger than this, little bigger than this." So how you can understand Atlantic Ocean within the well? So these rascals are all frogs. So they are thinking in their own terms, God. And because they cannot accommodate, "There is no God, finish."

We want to bring God to our level, that's frog philosophy. Atlantic Ocean to the level of well. That is foolishness. That is foolishness.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Actually, by one man's effort it was not possible. But it has become so. This is acintya-śakti, Kṛṣṇa's, inconceivable. Even a modern businessman, he cannot organize such a worldwide organization in such short a time. We have talked with many businessmen in India. Some said, "We have got thirty branches," somebody says, "We have got forty," another twenty branches. Our students say "My Guru Mahārāja has 102 branches." So they say, "No, we cannot compare with your Guru Mahārāja." So this is acintya-śakti. You can see so many things, the acintya-śakti is working. So unless we accept acintya-śakti of God, it is not possible to understand what is God. Inconceivable potency. And that is actually a fact. We want to bring God to our level, that's frog philosophy. Atlantic Ocean to the level of well. That is foolishness. That is foolishness.

Hat frog philosophy is going on. Dr. Frog. He's simply calculating the well, that's all. How there can be Atlantic Ocean? That is frog philosophy.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Therefore the gentleman the other day was asking, "How is that you say electricity?" Oh you were not present that time? Because we have translated there is no need of sun, there is no need of moon, there is no need of electricity in the spiritual world. So when he heard the word electricity, he became astonished.

Śyāmasundara: He thought the word did not exist at the time?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: Yes, I must admit I was amazed at that reference, reading that yesterday.

Prabhupāda: That frog philosophy is going on. Dr. Frog. He's simply calculating the well, that's all. How there can be Atlantic Ocean? That is frog philosophy. You know frog philosophy? Yes?

David Lawrence: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You know? I don't think you know. Who can explain what is that frog philosophy?

Śyāmasundara: Frog philosophy is trying to imagine the size of the Atlantic Ocean never having left my well.

David Lawrence: Oh, I see, yes. Completely beyond one's experience.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, especially of the Mr. Frog, Dr. Frog. He has never seen what is Atlantic Ocean and somebody informed him, "Oh I have seen such a vast mass of water." "Oh, is it bigger than this well?"

David Lawrence: Yes, beyond his conception.

Prabhupāda: These people are like frogs rotting in the well, and what they can understand of the Vedic knowledge?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

What do they know about Vedas? If they did know, then they should have stuck up in family life, in kūpa-māṇḍukya and gṛhambhara, they have.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If one does not understand Kṛṣṇa and become submissive to surrender, he remains a demon, however big scholar he may be.

Indian (1): That is a division of śāstra, Patel and Parsees.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't mention anyone. This is the general definition.

Indian (1): They were saying that you are not speaking Vedas.

Prabhupāda: What do they know about Vedas? If they did know, then they should have stuck up in family life, in kūpa-māṇḍukya and gṛhambhara, they have. They do not know what is Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is knowledge of Veda. In the Bhagavad-gītā.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Yes. A frog in the well is thinking, "This is the limit of water."

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So Brahma's past, present, future and our past and present, future is not the same. So time is eternal, and past, present, future is calculation of relative knowledge. That is not correct.

Jayatīrtha: Like the frog in the well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A frog in the well is thinking, "This is the limit of water." (laughter) And if you say there is Atlantic Ocean, he cannot understand it. He will think, "What is that?" "Oh, it is very big." "How much? Is it three feet? It is four feet?" "No, no, very big." "Five feet?" "No, no, still..." "Six feet?" So he is calculating in that way, "Four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten," but Atlantic ocean is beyond his conception. So these are all Dr. Frog's philosophy. Yes. And the so-called philosophers, they are Dr. Frog. (laughter) We consider them as Dr. Frog. Some of my students who are doctors, they are now trying to give up their job because they are understanding this is all false knowledge. Yes.

You should be not a frog in the well; you should be liberal to hear from the authorities, Vedas.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Indian man (4): Swamijī, is there any hell, or rather this is hell...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Why not? Why not?

Indian man (4): Above the world or in the world?

Prabhupāda: Huh? You know everything, where, what is where? Do you know? Then why do you ask this question? There is. There is. There is planet, hellish planet.

Indian man (4): I don't know, I have thought about this, that the hell of the pradas(?) exists only in this world itself.

Prabhupāda: Because you are the frog of the well. The frog of the well thinks, "This well is everything." And if you say, "There is Atlantic Ocean," he cannot imagine, the frog of the well. You know frog of the well?

Indian man (4): Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: A three-feet well, and a frog is there and he is thinking, "This is everything." And some friend comes and informs, "Oh, I have seen very big water, Atlantic." He simply imagines, "Oh? It's big? How much big? One feet more? All right, two feet. All right, three feet," like that. So the frogs in the well, they cannot understand. You should be not a frog in the well; you should be liberal to hear from the authorities, Vedas. Then you will understand. And if you remain a frog in the well... All these rascal scientists, they are all frog in the well. They have got little calculation of this planet, and they have no information of... There are so many millions of planets. What do they know?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Can you count how many atoms are there, atomic? That is your limitation. Therefore I say "frog philosophy."

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: There are many demigods. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Everything is ananta. Just like here you cannot count how many. Here, this much space, if I ask you, "Count how many grasses are there," you cannot do it. Everywhere. You count in this field how many plants are there. You cannot do it. So, similarly other planet, other, other...There are unlimited fields. You cannot count. Why you try to count it, "How many universes? How many devotees?" That is foolishness. It is not possible. Wherever you start, everything is unlimited. Can you count how many atoms are there, atomic? That is your limitation. Therefore I say "frog philosophy." The limited wants to study the unlimited. That is frog philosophy. The frog is thinking, "Eh? Three feet. All right, four feet. All right, five feet." He cannot think unlimited because he is frog. So don't imitate the frog. Take it as it is stated in the śāstra. Then it is all right. So what we are getting from this banana garden?

Kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the same. "Whatever is in my experience, three feet water... How there can be unlimited?"

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: About the foretelling of Bhāgavatam. The other day I recited so many verses. One of them, long hairs. Now see how practical. And now this is confirmation of the foretelling. Who knew five thousand years that people will keep long hairs and think of themselves as very beautiful? It is mentioned in Bhāgavata. How it is possible unless they can see actually what is going to happen? That is foretelling. And other description, they are also fact. Everything is there. And all this is five thousand, two thousand years' foretelling. The millions and millions of years' foretelling they are. What will the eighth Manu, and how they will..., ninth Manu, tenth Manu, up to fourteenth Manu. All the Manus together, forty-three lakhs, thousand times. This is all the Manus' time. And the whole history is concluded that "Now I have mentioned past, present and future." It is not difficult. Just like tomorrow for my daily routine, what I shall do tomorrow from morning to evening, I can say. Is it very difficult for me? So it is a question of Brahmā's one day. So it can be said by them, not by us. These rascals think only in their standard of thinking: "I cannot live in such such, such condition; therefore there is no living entity." This is their idea. "I cannot live within the water; therefore there is no living entity. I cannot live within the fire; therefore there is no living entity." Kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the same. "Whatever is in my experience, three feet water... How there can be unlimited?"

...word has come, kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the frog in the well.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: ...Western scientists, philosophers, they are all Dr. Frogs. They simply calculating three feet water, that's all. As soon as you speak to them about Atlantic Ocean, they say, "Oh, it is impossible." Froggish brain. (break) ...word has come, kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the frog in the well.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda, is that example also given in the Bhāgavatam? Frog in the well? Sometimes you use all these different examples, and they are all there in the Bhāgavatam. I was just wondering if this frog in the well was also there.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: You use very graphic examples; they're very perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, my Guru Mahārāja used to use to place so many examples, (laughs) I do not know all of them. No, there is a book, Nyāya-śāstra, logic. You'll find all these things.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that the Nīti-śāstra?

Prabhupāda: Nīti-śāstra is different. This is Nyāya-śāstra.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Logic. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a student.

Prabhupāda: Yes, logician.

That is another thing. Kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya. They knew some certain type of living entities, that's all.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The living conditions are always there in the matter. This is the example. Now, a decomposed body, the living being has left, now it is dead matter, but still, the living beings are coming out. How it is? That means matter has always the potency to give shelter to the living entity. So it is impossible that there is no living being in the moon planet. It is bogus. We cannot accept it. Any condition there is provision for the living beings. We see actually, in the earth, in the air, in the water, in the fire, these five elements. Whatever you take, these five elements in different proportions. So the living..., just like from perspiration living entities come out. It is impossible there is no living entities. That is bogus complete. You can challenge like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The living entities that they are familiar with.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya. They knew some certain type of living entities, that's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they think that all the living entities would be like that.

Prabhupāda: That is their kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, Dr. Frog. But the fact is, any condition of material existence, there is possibility of living entity there. Sarva-ga, sthāṇur, acalo'yaṁ sarva-ga. Everywhere there is living entity. It is impossible to conclude that on other planets there is no living entity. It is not possible.

They do not try to understand that actually God is great, how great He is. That is called kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya, Dr. Frog's philosophy.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: We cannot conceive of one universe, but we get the information that innumerable universes are coming out during the breathing period. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). That Mahā-Viṣṇu, yasya kalā-viśeṣa, part and plenary portion, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So when we speak all these things, they'll take it mythology. And a cheap god comes, we'll accept, "Here is God." This is the position. They do not try to understand that actually God is great, how great He is. That is called kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya, Dr. Frog's philosophy. Dr. Frog is within the well, three feet length and breadth. He's thinking, "This is the ultimate reservoir of water." And when he's informed there is Atlantic Ocean, he simply calculates, "All right, this is three feet. It may be six feet or it may be seven feet; all right, come on, ten feet." He's going like that. So God is not like that, within our calculation.

Prabhupāda: Kūpa-maṇḍūka. What you know about the Atlantic Ocean who's living within three feet of land, water? Kūpa-maṇḍūka.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Unless you become perfect, you cannot give perfect knowledge. So any knowledge given by any imperfect person, we reject immediately, useless waste of time. And actually that is the fact. If you are blind, you cannot see. You say, "Here is the elephant, a big stambha, pillar," by seeing his leg, by touching his leg. But elephant is just like a pillar? That is our speculation. Andha-kūpa, what is called? Kūpa-maṇḍūka. A frog in the well is trying to study Atlantic Ocean.

Devotee: Kūpa-maṇḍūka.

Prabhupāda: Kūpa-maṇḍūka. What you know about the Atlantic Ocean who's living within three feet of land, water? Kūpa-maṇḍūka.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Kūpa-maṇḍa, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten."

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is... You... You have been taught that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. Kūpa-maṇḍa, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that—avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11)—that "Kṛṣṇa may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on.

Kūpa-maṇḍūka, the frog in the well, he is thinking that "This is the whole water area."

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Solution is that you are thinking, "This is this." You are making solution. You are making solution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're trying to make.

Prabhupāda: But I say, because you are limited, this is not this. What you are thinking, "This is this," that is not.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what is it?

Prabhupāda: Kūpa-maṇḍūka, the frog in the well, he is thinking that "This is the whole water area."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then what is it? If it is not what I am thinking, then what is it?

Prabhupāda: That I am explaining. Take it.

The frog in the well, he's estimating, "This is the limit of water." What he'll understand about Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: First thing is, these people cannot cross the Himalayan mountain. (aside:) You can turn this light in this way, down. From my practical experience, I have seen Switzerland. It is so high, that so many accidents have taken place. Little inattention. They have experience. The plane goes thirty-two thousand feet high. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Thirty to forty thousand. Say forty thousand maximum.

Prabhupāda: Still they met with accident. But they are saying that Himalaya is twenty-eight thousand feet high.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maximum.

Prabhupāda: What is this? First of all answer this. Everything proposition is wrong. So how we can trust? What is the answer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We cannot trust them.

Prabhupāda: Then? But if you cannot trust them, they're rejected immediately. This is one argument. Another argument, (Bengali). The frog in the well, he's estimating, "This is the limit of water." What he'll understand about Pacific Ocean, Atlantic Ocean? There is so many things. On the whole we are imperfect, and although imperfect, they want to be perfect. That is cheating. Now for argument's sake, if they put some argument, we have to reply. We have to prepare for them. Otherwise they're useless. We know they're useless, but sometimes they put some argument. We have to give answer. This is the position. And our duty is to present picture of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam correct.

Why you are trying to adjust Pacific Ocean? Pacific Ocean, any ocean, it is just like kūpa-maṇḍūka. It is very big for you, but you are a very teeny identity.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: Today we were discussing...

Prabhupāda: That difference of opinion will continue. You cannot stop.

Bhakti-prema: This Pacific Ocean is saltwater...

Prabhupāda: Why you are trying to adjust Pacific Ocean? Pacific Ocean, any ocean, it is just like kūpa-maṇḍūka. It is very big for you, but you are a very teeny identity. Take the universe. What is the Pacific? Is it not a drop. There are so many Pacific Oceans floating in the sky. Everything is acintya. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). This is acintya. So acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. You cannot make an experiment or see it. Take some information from the authority and be satisfied. With your limited knowledge, if you want to bring it to experiment, that is not possible. That is not possible.

1968 Correspondence

Hayagriva is also doing nicely at Columbus fighting against Frog Philosophy.

Letter to Rayarama, Brahmananda -- Los Angeles 17 November, 1968:

P.S. The current issue of Back to Godhead is better than all previous ones. So you are tangibly improving the quality of BTG. May Krishna bless you improve it more & more. Tamala sold yesterday 87 copies at a length. He is very much satisfied with this issue. Hayagriva is also doing nicely at Columbus fighting against Frog Philosophy.