Generally, people take to become a devotee of goddess Kālī for eating meat. That is their purpose. In the Vedic culture, those who are meat-eaters, they have been advised that "Don't eat meat purchased from the slaughterhouse or from the market." Actually, this system was never current anywhere, all over the world, that to maintain slaughterhouse. This is latest invention. We talk with sometimes with Christian gentlemen, and when we inquire that "Lord Christ says 'Thou shalt not kill'; why you are killing?" they give evidence that "Christ also ate meat sometimes." Sometimes Christ ate meat, that's all right, but did Christ say that "You maintain big, big slaughterhouse and go on eating meat?" There is no common sense even. Christ might have eaten. Sometimes he... If there was no, nothing available for eating, what could you do? That is another question. In great necessity, when there is no other food except taking meat...
Jesus and meat-eating
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Translator: (translating questions from French) Jesus Christ..., it is said that he made the miracle of the fish and ate. So why is it that one should not eat meat?
Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said, "You shall not kill." Why you are killing?
Translator: But then why did he eat fish?
Prabhupāda: He can eat the whole world, but you cannot do that. You must follow his instruction, "Thou shall not kill." You must have discrimination. You are human beings; you are not cats and dogs. You must have discrimination, what to eat, what to not eat. Because we have to eat some other living entity, it does not mean that I shall eat my sons and daughters. "Discrimination is the best part of valor." So far we are concerned, we are eating certainly vegetable, but not directly. We eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati: (BG 9.26) "Anyone who offers Me with love and affection vegetables, grains, milk, I eat." So if there is any sin for eating vegetables, that is Kṛṣṇa's sin, not our sin. We take the prasādam. We are teaching people to eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. We are not teaching people to become vegetarian or nonvegetarian. That is not our business. After all, we have to eat, so if we eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam... That is stated, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ: "If you accept prasādam which is offered to God, then you are free from all sinful resultant action."
People are mad, and they are doing anything mischievous, sinful. And what is the purpose? Now, just to satisfy the senses. You see? There are so many nice foodstuff—Kṛṣṇa has given—fruits, flowers, grains, milk, butter, sugar. And you can prepare hundreds and thousands of preparation out of it and offer to Kṛṣṇa and eat it very nicely. "No. We must have meat." This is vikarma. Vikarma means sinful activities. Karma, vikarma, and... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). God has given you so many nice foodstuff. Why should you kill an animal? Therefore Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." "Then shall I die?" No. There are so many things. You eat. Tena tyaktena, whatever is ordained by you, by God, Kṛṣṇa... The same thing is said. Kṛṣṇa should have said, "Give me..." Mamsam din mam.(?) No. He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).
Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). If you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you'll see that "Every living entity, not only human society, but the animal society, the bird society, tree society, the aquatic society—all living entities, they're all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I kill a fish or a cow, or a goat? He's also son of Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you are doing humanitarian work and sending so many animals, thousands of animals, to the slaughterhouse. What is this? What these poor animals have done? Because you are not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are discriminating in this way, that the human society should be given protection, the animal society should be slaughtered. Is that very good? Is that good consciousness? Just like the Christian people say that the animals have no soul—because they want to eat meat. Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill." They interpret in a different way. So you can make your own mental concoction, but if you require to be right person, you have to take direction from the authorities. That is required.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
This dharma, this kind, religious, the Bhāgavata religion, is so perfect, that all kinds of cheating types of religion is kicked out from it. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ. They are not accepted, all cheating types of religion. There are so many religious..., not perfect knowledge even. Even they disobey... They cannot without disobeying. Because it cannot train people to the perfection, they remain defective always. Big, big priests, big, big cardinals. What they are doing? They are simply disobeying. Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill," so they are simply eating meat. That's all. "No intoxicants"; they are taking. They cannot be trained up. Even though so-called priests and the..., they are not trained up. They cannot take it up. Therefore Bhāgavata principle is so nice that little training... Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Little training. Even the most fallen can be elevated to the highest position. This is Bhāgavatam. Perfect. Purāṇa-guhyam.
So this sacrifice, this animal killing, that is also forbidding, that... Nārada Muni said that "Why you have bothered your head in that, that way, that you have made this, this is a type of religion?" Jugupsitam: "This is abominable." Jugupsitaṁ dharma-kṛte 'nuśāsataḥ: "You are authority, and if you recommend animal sacrifice, they will take it. They have got already natural tendency, and they will accept it, 'This is the religious process.' And when they will be forbidden by other, saner persons, they'll not care for it. So it is jugupsitam. It is abominable." Jugupsitaṁ dharma-kṛte 'nuśāsataḥ sva-bhāva-raktasya mahān vyatikramaḥ: "It's a great mistake you have done." Yad-vākyato dharma itītaraḥ sthitaḥ: "They'll accept you authority, and they'll be steady in that assertion, in that conviction." And na manyate tasya nivāraṇam: "And if you say..." Just like in other religious principles, if we say that "Don't eat meat..." I had some conversation with some Christian priests. They put forward this argument, "Why should we not eat? Our Christ took flesh. And why should we not? We must do it." They say like that. But Christ said that "You should... You shall not kill." So they cannot give any proper explanation why they kill. So in every religion... In Muhammadan religion, there...
So if, if this killing process or this drinking process, or this, which a man has got natural, that is excited under the name of religion, then Nārada says, "Then when actually they will be forbidden for higher elevation of life, they'll not accept it. Therefore your description in the śāstras of all these nonsense, jugupsitam, is abominable." Jugupsitaṁ dharma-kṛte 'nuśāsataḥ sva-bhāva-rakta... "The natural tendency, this. You should not incite them more and more."
Now, sometimes, in..., the Christians, they say the Lord Jesus Christ sometimes ate fish. Is not that? But... Might have done so. One thing is Christ is powerful. Under certain circumstances, even if he had eaten some fish, that is not fault for him. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). In the śāstra (it) says, those who are very powerful, if they sometimes do something which is prohibited for common man, that is special case. But even if you accept that Christ ate fish, "Therefore we shall eat meat and maintain big, big slaughterhouse, although in the Bible it is clearly said 'Thou shalt not kill,' " this is not Christianity. This is against, violating the rules and regulation of Christianity. Factually, one should not kill. But under some pressure or under certain condition, if it is needed, that is another thing. But generally, one should not kill.
Initiation Lectures
Nobody dies without meat-eating. That's not a fact. When we were children, we were babies, we were depending on milk, either mother's breast milk or cow's milk. Therefore cow is also our mother. Just like we drink breast milk from my mother, similarly, we drink milk from mother cow. Therefore meat-eating is prohibited. You cannot kill your mother. That is a great sin. You cannot. But people have become so sinful that they have no consideration that "I am going to kill my mother. I am so ungrateful that the mother who supplied her blood to feed me, to keep me living, now I am grown-up, I am going to kill my mother." This is my advancement of education, that "I have learned how to kill my mother." Therefore, in every religion the killing is prohibited or very much restricted. So in your Christian religion, the first item is, "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is violating this first commandment. Then where is your claim to become a Christian? If you violate the injunction given by Lord Jesus Christ, then where, how you become a Christian? That is our question. Either Christian or this or that, killing is most sinful. This should be avoided.
General Lectures
Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, why did Lord Jesus Christ eat meat?
Prabhupāda: That was circumstantial because we have to take into consideration of the situation of the country and the people. Where there is no other food, one must live. Then meat-eating is not bad in that case. Because survival is required. But when there are substitutes... Everyone is eating another life. That is the law of nature. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that sahastānām ahastāni. The animals, animal who has got hands, he eats the animal who has no hand. That means four-legged animals. Ahastāni sahastānām apadāni catuṣ-padām. And the animals or living entities who cannot move, they are foodstuff of the moving. That means the grass, plants, they are the foodstuff for the cows and other animals. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. And the big animal eats the small animal. Just like we see a big serpent is eating a small serpent, a big fish eating a small fish. So this is the law, that nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So one life is meant for maintaining another life. This is the law of nature. But Upaniṣad says that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) everything belongs to the Lord. Just like in a hotel there are many kinds of foodstuff, but they all belong to the hotel keeper. And you can take only on your table what is offered to you. You cannot take anything, anything, whatever you like, no. That is illegal. Similarly, everything is food, that's all right. But you can take only what is allotted for you, that's all. So human being should take, as far as possible, vegetables. The teeth is made for eating vegetables. That is scientifically true. And if you take vegetables all along, then you will never be diseased. And so far we are concerned, we are taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam. That I have already explained, that Kṛṣṇa wants this foodstuff... If Kṛṣṇa says that "Give Me meat," then we shall eat meat. Because we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We are not distinguished that "Vegetable eating is nice, meat eating is not nice." No. The nature's law is that you must eat, and that eating is something living. Vegetable is also living. But we are not concerned, vegetarian or nonvegetarian. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "You give Me fruits, flowers, grains." We offer that. If Kṛṣṇa says, "You give Me meat, chickens," we shall offer and we shall take.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (2): They lived by the ten commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The ten commandments are Moses, Moses' teachings.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of kashruth, how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.
Devotee: That came after the Book of Misrad. Misrad recommends vegetarian.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Really?
Devotee: And also Lord Jesus says that if there is unnecessary killing of animal that "By my hand you shall be slain.". In Genesis. He is stating, "Yes, one may kill, but if there is unnecessary killing, by my hand you shall be slain." In Genesis.
Devotee (1): Also, in Genesis is says that the fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat. It's describing how man should live and it says that fruits and herbs of the land shall be your meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they were meat-eaters, so Jesus Christ replies that fruit should be your meat.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob Cohen: I asked one. They said..., he said he claimed that Jesus was also eating meat in the Bible. But I don't know.
Prabhupāda: But that's all right. He, he may eat anything. He's powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill." You must stop killing. He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. You cannot compare with Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ. You shall have to abide by his order. That is your position. Then you are guided by Jesus Christ. That is actually obedience. You cannot imitate. That is explained in Bhāgavata, that those who are īśvara, those who are empowered, they will do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order. "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. If you say that "Jesus Christ ate meat," admitting that, in what condition he ate meat, if you do not know, then Jesus Christ is contradicting his statement. He's eating himself meat, and he's advising others not to kill. Do you think Jesus Christ is contradicting?
Bob Cohen: No.
Prabhupāda: He cannot do that. That, that is real faith in Jesus, that he cannot do that. So "Why he has eaten meat, he knows, but he has asked me not to kill. I have to follow it." That is real Christianity. You are not Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate. He has sacrificed his life for God. Can you do that? So why you (indistinct) imitate Jesus Christ? You are imitating Jesus Christ for eating meat. Why not imitate Jesus Christ, sacrifice your life for spreading God consciousness? What do you think, Kīrtanānanda?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you preach, you can say all these things with so-called Christians. So what you are doing for God? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate sun, "Oh, here is sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine," can you? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. He is powerful. He can do everything. Therefore we cannot imitate Him. We have to simply abide by His order. That is real Christian.
Prabhupāda: Huh, where is Christian? Simply by saying that "I am Christian..."
Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no Christian.
Prabhupāda: There is no Christian. Otherwise there is no difference between Christianity and our philosophy. They're Christian; we're Krishnian. And Christ comes from the word Kṛṣṭa. So if they actually follow the commandments given by Lord Jesus Christ, the world will change, immediately.
Devotee: Is that so...
Prabhupāda: Unnecessarily, false argument. Even Jesus Christ ate meat, you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: They will say that Jesus Christ ate meat.
Prabhupāda: All right, Jesus Christ took meat, but Jesus Christ never said that you maintain slaughterhouse. Is there any Bible, anything?
Devotee: No.
Prabhupāda: Then you eat meat. All right. You kill and meat. Why you are maintaining slaughterhouse? Is that Jesus Christ's instruction, rascal? Thousands of slaughterhouse you are maintaining under the order of Jesus Christ? So they are rascals. You eat meat, all right. Jesus Christ, meat... Of course, once, twice he might have because he was a...
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just like Jesus Christ says that there was many things to be said by, by...
Bali Mardana: "There are many things, but I can, but you cannot, I have to tell you, but you cannot bear them now."
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that means he's first-class, but he comes to the second-class platform or third-class platform to teach the third-class, second-class person. He's first class. Son of God cannot be second-class or third-class. He must be first-class. But... Just like Lord Buddha. He's God Himself, but He said nothing about God because he knew that "These rascals, they will not be able to... Let them stop meat-eating, that's all. Let them become sinless first of all; then they will be able..." So his main preaching was ahiṁsā, non-violence, no meat-eating. But still, they violate that. Jesus Christ also preached, "Thou shall not kill," but these rascals, all violating. And still, they are proclaiming as Christian and Buddhist. No religion will, real religion, will allow this kind of violence, no religion. It is cheating religion. Dharmaḥ kaitavaḥ: Any religion committing unnecessary violence to the animals, (it is) third-class. It is not religion, it is cheating. Simply cheating.
Sudāmā: They believe it's very necessary.
Prabhupāda: They believe because they're rascals. Why necessary? We are not meat-eaters, why it is necessary? You have created necessary.
Prabhupāda: So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning.
Prabhupāda: The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful. He can act some way or other, according to circumstances. That is his business. Actually, that is the Vedic statement, that just like the sun, the sun can absorb the urine. People pass urine on the street, and the sunshine absorbs the urine, evaporates, but sun is still pure. Rather, the place where the urine was passed, it becomes disinfected. Similarly, those who are powerful, īśvara, godly, you cannot imitate their actions. They are apparently doing something wrong; still, they are pure. The same example. The sun is absorbing or evaporating the urine, but sun is still pure. But if I imitate and lick up the urine, that is not very good business. Similarly, we cannot imitate the powerful, we have to simply follow the instruction of the powerful. That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful.
Satsvarūpa: You said: "Well, if you're sinful, there's no question of going on to a higher topic."
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is specially mentioned in the Bhāgavata: vinā paśughnāt.
- nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
- bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
- ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt
- pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
- (SB 10.1.4)
Everyone can understand the truth except the rascals who are meat-eaters. Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt. Paśu means animals, and ghna means killer. Christ therefore first says, "You shall not kill." These rascals are killers from the very beginning, and they're continuing. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are paśughna, they cannot understand. They're thinking, "We are doing very good work, philanthropic work, opening hospitals and public roads, and every ten years, we are fighting and killing all the men population." They're happy. They are taking credit for these big, big buildings, but this is duṣkṛtina because simply these buildings are meant for committing sinful activities. That's all. "Wine, women, meat-eating, gambling. We are civilized." (break) ...this Geneva very many churches.
Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. Come on. He was Prince, then He become renounced and He was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started His system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers: no meat-eating, so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex, another meat-eating, another intoxication, and another gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Amogha: At the school, the students say, "Why not eat fish? Jesus was passing out fish, in the Bible. And we all catch fish. We like to catch fish." And then we tell them about meat. So, they think that we are loosing a great pleasure, that we cannot eat meat.
Prabhupāda: You tell them, that you will be very merry—that's all right. But do you want to stop these merry affairs all of a sudden? Ask them, what will they reply?
Amogha: They'll say "No, we don't want to stop."
Prabhupāda: Then, the nature will stop it. What are you going to arrange for that?
Amogha: They say, "We don't know what will happen after, so we'll just enjoy and have fun now, as much as possible."
Prabhupāda: So why have you come to school? Why don't you play all day?
Amogha: Because we need to get a good job so we...
Prabhupāda: Then, they are thinking of future. Now we are thinking of the future. That is ignorance—that they do not know what is future life. They are thinking of the future, that's a fact, but because they are kept in darkness, about future life, they are doing all this irresponsible work.
Prabhupāda: Christ was killing animals?
Śrutakīrti: Well, he instructed his own disciples to distribute the fish. So he was also involved in killing of animals.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but he said that the fuits and vegetable should be your flesh. What is that?
Śrutakīrti: Well, that was before Christ. He never said that.
Paramahaṁsa: He also said that.
Śrutakīrti: Where does he say that?
Paramahaṁsa: He said that in the (inaudible). Yes. The Bible says that and Christ also spoke that, that the grasses of the fields and the fruits of the trees shall be your meat.
Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. The Christians always say that Christ was eating fish and drinking wine, so what problem have we got? Drinking a little alcohol, eating a little meat?
Prabhupāda: Then how did he say that "Thou shall not kill"?
Śrutakīrti: That was actually the Ten Commandments. That was given by God.
Gaṇeśa: Given to Moses.
Śrutakīrti: That was given to Moses by God. The Ten Commandments.
Prabhupāda: That is not Christ has said?
Śrutakīrti: Well, Christ enforced it.
Paramahaṁsa: It was accepted by him as one of the rules.
Śrutakīrti: Christ's greatest commandment was to love God above all things. So if one is to love God, one must follow His instructions.
Prabhupāda: Who is following the instructions?
Śrutakīrti: We are.
Prabhupāda: But supposing Christ distributed fish, but did he say that we shall maintain regular slaughterhouse for killing animals?
| Page Title: | Jesus and meat-eating |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 22 of Mar, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=10, Con=17, Let=1 |
| No. of Quotes: | 28 |