Prof. Kotovsky: Would he be paid to stay in that center?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am answering. As I told you that this propaganda is meant for creating some brāhmaṇas all over the world because the brāhmaṇa element is lacking, so one who seriously comes to us, he has to become a brāhmaṇa. So he has to adopt the occupation of a brāhmaṇa, and he has to give up the occupation of a kṣatriya or a śūdra. But if one wants to keep his profession, at the same time wants to understand also, that is allowed. Just like we have many professors. There is Howard Wheeler, professor of Ohio University. He's my disciple. So he is continuing his professorship. But whatever money he's getting, almost he's spending for our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For gṛhasthas, those who are householders living outside, they are expected to contribute fifty per cent of the income for the society, twenty-five per cent for the family, and twenty-five per cent for his personal emergency. After all, in this world, if we live... So far we are concerned, we are sannyāsī, but you are a professor. If there is some emergency, you cannot go to beg. But I am a sannyāsī. I can tell you that I am in difficulty. That is the system. So we have got four orders. Just like he's brahmacārī, and he's gṛhastha. He has got his wife, children. So he's a gṛhastha. He's a brahmacārī. Similarly, there is sannyāsī. So that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. It doesn't matter whether one is a gṛhastha, householder, or renounced order or a brahmacārī or a brāhmaṇa or śūdra. It doesn't matter. If anyone understands the science of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes the spiritual master. The exact word is, in Bengali, kiba vipra kiba śūdra nyāsi kene nāya... Do you understand little Bengali?
Prof. Kotovsky: No, but...
Prabhupāda: As a vibration...
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yei kṛṣṇa tattva vettha sei guru hāya. Anyone who understands the science of Kṛṣṇa, he can become...
Prof. Kotovsky: Guru.
Prabhupāda: ...the spiritual master.
Prof. Kotovsky: I understand. But in generally, by creating brāhmaṇas from different social classes of society, really you deny the old prescription of Hindu script...
Prabhupāda: No, I establish old, old scrip... I establish.
Prof. Kotovsky: Because according to old script, the Purāṇas, etc., every member of one of the four classes, these varṇas...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...is to be born inside it...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...but not appointed.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. No, no, no.
Prof. Kotovsky: This is the major...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that... I am sorry...
Prof. Kotovsky: ...foundation of all the varṇas.
Prabhupāda: You are not speaking correctly. I beg... We beg... With great respect I beg to submit, you are, that you are not speaking correctly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: (BG 4.13) "These four orders of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra is created by Me according to quality and work." There is no mention of birth. There is no mention of birth.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I agree with you that this was addition of late brāhmaṇas who tried to...
Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old. But this Vedic scripture, you cannot trace out where is the beginning, where is the beginning. It is therefore called sanātana, eternal. And this culture is for the whole human society. It is not a departmental religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change. Just like... You try to understand. Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, He says:
- yadā yadā hi dharmasya
- glanīr bhavati bhārata
- abhyutthānam adharmasya
- tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
- (BG 4.7)
- paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ
- vināśāya ca duṣkṛtaṁ
- (BG 4.8)
Duṣkṛtānam, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya yuge yuge sambhavāmi. Now, Kṛṣṇa came to establish the religious principles, and in the last stage of speaking He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya māmekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). And that is real dharma, mām ek..., to surrender to the Supreme. That is real dharma. We are surrendering. Anyone, just like you or me, anyone, we are surrendering to somebody. That's a fact. Our, our life is by surrender. Is it not? Do you disagree with this point?
Prof. Kotovsky: To some extent you surrender.