View source for But can all the masses of people become devotees?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1977]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="10" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1977 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1977 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="ConversationonTraintoAllahabadJanuary111977India_0" class="quote" parent="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="27" link="Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India" link_text="Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India">
<div class="heading">Oh, yes, cent percent devotees, by this process: ask them to chant and take prasāda.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India|Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we be thinking in our minds that one day the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will have to manage the cities and the nations of the world?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: So there are so many different departments in managing such a big thing. It requires a lot of...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no. We shall... If people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the so many nonsense departments will be reduced.</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: Simplified.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. The department, the sinful departments, illicit sex, meat-eating, this will be closed, and that will make simple.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: Completely?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, at least we shall try to make closed. And if people become localized, then this traffic will be little. Just like I am trying to organize the farm. If people do not come out of home, then this system will be obsolete. There will be no more department. They have created hundreds. They do not know how to manage it. For livelihood they have to go to Bombay, and therefore they require so many local trains. But if they localized, they can get their livelihood locally, there is no question of these all...</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: In America this is becoming the number-one problem—unemployment.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be. Artificial employment. (train re-starts)</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: It's possible in India but not in America.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why?</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: The American people are... They consider it backwards. Prabhupāda: That has to be educated, that backward is real life.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: They think they have achieved a higher standard of freedom by traveling all over the world...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Where is your freedom? Where is your freedom if for your livelihood you have to go a hundred miles? Where is your freedom? Why you are illusioned? For your bread, you have to go hundred miles off, either by car or by train. So where is your freedom?</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: The freedom is in leisure time. They have a lot of leisure time.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Where is leisure time? You rise early in the morning and start for your office. Where is your leisure time? All imagination. I have seen in New York. They are coming from the other parts, starting early in the morning, two hours in the ferry and two hours in the cars, and standing two hours. What is this? Leaders, rich men, can think like that, that "I have leisure," but a worker, lower class, they have no freedom. That is illusion, and we are trying to give freedom to everyone. That is freedom. You are forced to go to the factory and work there in a hellish condition of life. Is that freedom?</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: There must be still education so the people will... Say we are one day...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No education, no. Education will be required only for the guiding class: brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, not for anyone, śūdras. They are two only. Others will... What education required? Suppose if you produce... If you..., you are accustomed to agriculture, cow protection, there is no need going to college and schools. If you remain illiterate, still you can do.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: But in America...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, America is not... I am talking of the (indistinct), the class who will guide the aim of life, brāhmaṇa class, and a class that will give them protection from injuries by others, kṣatriya class. Then the next class, food-producing men, they do not require. Actually only brāhmaṇas, they require education, or all others, they will simply see and learn. So little education required—that you can learn by hearing only, that's all. Suppose a brāhmaṇa class says that "This is good; this is bad." So you hear and accept. It doesn't require to go to school and college. So education will be simplified. (break) It has become very much complicated.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: They have given too much power to the people, so the people demand so many things.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore they're suffering. Ordinary people, what they'll do? Anarthas. Actually it is anartha. They have created so many things.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: They are very much afraid if we close down the gambling houses and the prostitution houses that there will be no more enjoyment. Life will be boring.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: "What we'll do?" (laughter) So we shall give you opportunity to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance here. (train stops) What is this nonsense?</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: It seems that if one day the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement has actually achieved some powerful position in America...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That we want.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: ...we will have to tolerate all these things—cinema, nightclubs. How can we close all these things? The people want these things.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. If you educate people, if you give them better enjoyment, they'll give up.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: Very gradual.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Just like our men. They are not after cinema or brothel house or restaurants. It requires education.</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: We have to make them devotees.</p>
<p>Rāmeśvara: But can all the masses of people become devotees?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, cent percent devotees, by this process: ask them to chant and take prasāda.</p>
<p>Jagadīśa: People in general are very much inclined to accept whoever their leader is if they feel happy. So if we give them kīrtana and prasādam, if their economic needs are met, then how can they avoid? Economic needs are the main thing. That's why they...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If they can eat nicely and they have no complaint for living conditions, they will become.</p>
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