View source for As a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gita

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{{terms|"as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gita"}}
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{{compiler|Visnu Murti}}
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[[Category:Lawyers]]
[[Category:When]]
[[Category:There Is Some]]
[[Category:Dispute]]
[[Category:Referencing the Bhagavad-gita]]
[[Category:Lawbooks]]
[[Category:Similarly]]
[[Category:The Soul Is Immortal]]
[[Category:Change Of Body]]
[[Category:Bhagavad-gita]]
[[Category:Prabhupada's Analogies]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="9" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1976 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1976 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationJune91976LosAngeles_0" class="quote" parent="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="122" link="Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles" link_text="Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles">
<div class="heading">So as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gītā. You find it clear, na jāyate na mriyate, clearly said.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles|Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: Very common sense. But we are so dull-headed we cannot understand.</p>
<p>Jay Warner: I am so what?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: We are so dull-headed.</p>
<p>Devotees: We, dull-headed.... (laughter)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Just like in the, what is called, movie spool....</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Film strip.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Film, yes. There are hundreds of bodies in the film, and when they are played, it seems that it's the same—one man is moving—but actually, in the film there are hundreds of bodies, but it is changing so swiftly it appears one.</p>
<p>Jay Warner: A man's eye cannot see it changing.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Huh?</p>
<p>Jay Warner: A man's eye cannot see it change.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. By nature's law it is changing every second in such swift way that we cannot understand.</p>
<p>Jay Warner: How does one give up the fear of dying?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: There is no death. You change body. Because the body is lost, you are no more, you do not possess the childhood body, youth-hood body, that does no mean you are dead. You are living; the body has changed. But because we do not know the science, we think "The body is finished; therefore he's dead." Therefore you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Find out the verse.</p>
<p>Hṛdayānanda:"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's it. So as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gītā. You find it clear, na jāyate na mriyate, clearly said. Explain?</p>
<p>Hṛdayānanda: Purport? "Qualitatively, the small atomic fragmental part of the supreme spirit is one with the Supreme. He undergoes no changes like the body. Sometimes the soul is called the steady..."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just bring little salt.</p>
<p>Hṛdayānanda: "...or kūṭa-stha. The body is subject to six kinds of transformations. It takes its birth in the womb of the mother's body, remains for some time, grows, produces some effects, gradually dwindles, and at last vanishes into oblivion. The soul, however, does not go through such changes. The soul is not born, but, because he takes on a material body, the body takes its birth. The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die. Anything which has birth also has death. And because the soul has no birth, he therefore has no past, present or future. He is eternal, ever-existing and primeval—that is, there is no trace in history of his coming into being. Under the impression of the body, we seek the history of birth, etc., of the soul. The soul does not at any time become old, as the body does. The so-called old man therefore feels himself to be in the same spirit as in his childhood or youth. The changes of the body do not affect the soul. The soul does not deteriorate like a tree, nor anything material. The soul has no by-product either. The by-products of the body, namely children, are also different individual souls, and, owing to the body, they appear as children of a particular man. The body develops because of the soul's presence, but the soul has neither offshoots nor change. Therefore, the soul is free from the six changes of the body. In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad also we find a similar passage which reads:</p>
:na jāyate mriyate vā vipaścin
:nāyaṁ kutaścin na babhūva kaścit
:ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
:na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
:([[Vanisource:BG 2.20 (1972)|BG 2.20]])
<p>The meaning and purport of this verse is the same as in the Bhagavad-gītā, but here in this verse there is one special word, vipaścit, which means learned or with knowledge. The soul is full of knowledge, or full always with consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the symptom of the soul. Even if one does not find the soul within the heart, where he is situated, one can still understand the presence of the soul simply by the presence of consciousness. Sometimes we do not find the sun in the sky owing to clouds, or for some other reason, but the light of the sun is always there, and we are convinced that it is therefore daytime. As soon as there is a little light in the sky early in the morning, we can understand that the sun is in the sky. Similarly, since there is some consciousness in all bodies—whether man or animal—we can understand the presence of the soul. This consciousness of the soul is, however, different from the consciousness of the Supreme, because the supreme consciousness is all-knowledge—past, present and future. The consciousness of the individual soul is prone to be forgetful. When he is forgetful of his real nature, he obtains education and enlightenment from the superior lessons of Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is not like the forgetful soul. If so, Kṛṣṇa's teachings of Bhagavad-gītā would be useless. There are two kinds of souls-namely the minute particle soul, aṇu-ātmā, and the Supersoul, the vibhu-ātmā. This is also confirmed in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad in this way:</p>
:aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān
:ātmāsya jantor nihito guhāyām
:tam akratuḥ paśyati vīta-śoko
:dhātuḥ prasādān mahimānam ātmanaḥ
<p>'Both the Supersoul, Paramātmā, and the atomic soul, jīvātmā, are situated on the same tree of the body within the same heart of the living being, and only one who has become free from all material desires as well as lamentations can, by the grace of the Supreme, understand the glories of the soul.' Kṛṣṇa is the fountainhead of the Supersoul also, as it will be disclosed in the following chapters, and Arjuna is the atomic soul, forgetful of his real nature; therefore he requires to be enlightened by Kṛṣṇa, or by His bona fide representative, the spiritual master."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If you have got any question upon this statement, the statement given in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the purport we have explained? If you have got any question over it?</p>
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