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[[Category:After Being Initiated by a Spiritual Master|1]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
 
</div>
[[Category:Conversations]]
<div id="1969_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="2" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1969 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1969 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
 
</div>
== Conversations and Morning Walks ==
<div id="LordCaitanyaPlayToldtoTamalaKrsnaAugust41969LosAngeles_0" class="quote" parent="1969_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="18" link="Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles" link_text="Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles">
 
<div class="heading">So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.
=== 1969 Conversations and Morning Walks ===
</div>
 
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles|Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you tell me something about Caitanya's initiation in Vaiṣṇava faith? When He was initiated?</p>
<span class="q_heading">'''Before Kṛṣṇa consciousness, was there any purī manufactured here? No. (laughs)'''</span>
<p>Prabhupāda: After His father's death it is the custom amongst the Hindus to offer oblations at Gayā. There is a temple, Viṣṇu temple. They offer prasādam. This is a Hindu custom. And with that prasādam the forefathers and the father is offered. So He went to perform that ceremony and by chance He met Īśvara Purī and He was initiated by Īśvara Purī. And after coming back from Gayā, He became very much emotional for Kṛṣṇa, and sometimes people thought that He has become crazy. So His mother treated with some oil. But learned devotees, they said that He has got devotional emotion. So His initiation was in Gayā, when He went to perform that ceremony. So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.</p>
 
</div>
<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York|Room Conversation -- April 12, 1969, New York]]:'''
</div>
 
<div id="LordCaitanyaPlayToldtoTamalaKrsnaAugust41969LosAngeles_1" class="quote" parent="1969_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="18" link="Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles" link_text="Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles">
Prabhupāda: Begin, begin. (eating) Yes. Gargamuni, you distribute this purī.
<div class="heading">Before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not. Then his life is changed immediately by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is the instruction of Jagāi-Mādhāi.
 
</div>
Gargamuni: Made some curry. (everyone eating for a long time)
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles|Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: So the other brother, Mādhāi said, "Oh, what you are doing? What you are doing? He's innocent." This news was reached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much angry. He came, "Bring My cakra. I shall kill these rascals immediately." He became so angry. Then Nityānanda Prabhu implored, "My dear brother, why You are very angry? They are the sample of this age. So if You become angry, then whom we are going to deliver? The whole population is full of like Jagāi and Mādhāi. So our preaching is for the most fallen. Why do You remember, why do You forget this? Don't be angry." Then both the brothers, they fell on the feet of Nityānanda. "Please forgive us. We have done wrong. You are so nice people. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa so innocent, and we are so..." This is the effect of seeing a pure devotee. Heart becomes soft. This is the association, effect of association. So they surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, I will accept you. I don't care for your past deeds, but you have to agree that no more this nonsense." That means before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not. Then his life is changed immediately by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is the instruction of Jagāi-Mādhāi. So there were only two Jagāi-Mādhāis, but you'll meet hundreds of Jagāi-Mādhāis. So... But they can be delivered. There is no question that in their past life they had been sinful. Simply they have to agree that "No more this nonsense." Therefore I have kept these restrictions, these four restrictions. Anyone who adopts this life and initiated, and follows these restrictions, then he begins a new life.</p>
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: Everything hot.
</div>
 
<div id="1972_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="5" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1972 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1972 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
Brahmānanda: Yes.
</div>
 
<div id="TalkwithBobCohenFebruary27291972Mayapura_0" class="quote" parent="1972_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="5" link="Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura" link_text="Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura">
Prabhupāda: Before Kṛṣṇa consciousness, was there any purī manufactured here? No. (laughs)
<div class="heading">That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer."
 
</div>
Gargamuni: No. None of this.
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura|Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.</p>
 
<p>Bob: So Christ's suffering was of that nature?</p>
Brahmānanda: When I first came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I'd only been coming I think maybe two days to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then Mukunda had his wedding. Oh, that hooked me. Nice wedding and nice feasting. I was hooked.
<p>Prabhupāda: Hmm?</p>
 
<p>Bob: Was Christ's suffering this...</p>
Rāyarāma: That was the day after our initiations. They initiated the night before. We had two days feasting.
<p>Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that he took the sinful reaction of all the people, therefore he suffered.</p>
 
<p>Bob: I see.</p>
Devotee: I came into San Francisco looking for a spiritual teacher and I came to prasādam and I never left.
<p>Prabhupāda: He said... That is the Bible, that he has taken all the sinful reactions of the people and he sacrificed his life. But these Christian people, they have made it a law that "Christ will suffer and we shall do all nonsense." Such great fools they are. They are... "Let Jesus Christ make contract for taking all one sinful reaction, and we will go on with all nonsense." That is their religion. This... They are not in sense that "Christ is so magnanimous that he took all our sins and he has suffered... We stop all these sins!" They have not come to that sense. They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?</p>
 
<p>Bob: It is so.</p>
Gargamuni: I think that's what hooked all of us. (laughter)
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. (break) ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. (break)... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?</p>
 
<p>Bob: Yes, yes, yes.</p>
Prabhupāda: Prasāde sarva-duhkhānāṁ hanir asyopajāyate. (pause) Thank you. Govinda dāsī has become very good housewife. Yes. (pause) Rāyarāma, come. Kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay sva-prasād-anna dilo bhāi. No more.</span>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is my misdeed, that I accept a disciple who is nonsense. That is my misdeed.</p>
 
<p>Bob: This happens on occasion?</p>
<span class="q_heading">'''So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.'''</span>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, this is sure to happen because we are accepting so many men. But it is the duty of the disciple to be cautious. That "My spiritual master saved me. I may not put him again into these sufferings." (break) When the spiritual master is in suffering, Kṛṣṇa saves him. Kṛṣṇa thinks, "Oh, he has taken so much responsibility for delivering a fallen person." So Kṛṣṇa is there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati ([[Vanisource:BG 9.31 (1972)|BG 9.31]]). Because the spiritual master takes the risk on account of Kṛṣṇa.</p>
 
</div>
<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles|Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles]]:'''
</div>
 
<div id="MorningWalksOctober131972LosAngeles_1" class="quote" parent="1972_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="41" link="Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles" link_text="Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles">
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you tell me something about Caitanya's initiation in Vaiṣṇava faith? When He was initiated?
<div class="heading">After initiation if she smokes, that's not good.
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: After His father's death it is the custom amongst the Hindus to offer oblations at Gayā. There is a temple, Viṣṇu temple. They offer prasādam. This is a Hindu custom. And with that prasādam the forefathers and the father is offered. So He went to perform that ceremony and by chance He met Īśvara Purī and He was initiated by Īśvara Purī. And after coming back from Gayā, He became very much emotional for Kṛṣṇa, and sometimes people thought that He has become crazy. So His mother treated with some oil. But learned devotees, they said that He has got devotional emotion. So His initiation was in Gayā, when He went to perform that ceremony. So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.</span>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles|Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Jayatīrtha: She is a 40-years-old lady, her name is Lucille. She is very much actually convinced of our philosophy and is devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the only thing is, because she comes conditioned from a previous life, can't give up, has a very hard time giving up smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. She's been trying for about nine months to give up these things, (indistinct) but she can't do it. Still she is desirous of initiation. So I don't know what to (indistinct)</p>
 
<p>Prabhupāda: No. You must at least promise that he gives (break) And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.</p>
<span class="q_heading">'''Before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not. Then his life is changed immediately by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is the instruction of Jagāi-Mādhāi.'''</span>
</div>
 
</div>
<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles|Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles]]:'''
<div id="1973_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="6" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1973 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1973 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: So the other brother, Mādhāi said, "Oh, what you are doing? What you are doing? He's innocent." This news was reached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much angry. He came, "Bring My cakra. I shall kill these rascals immediately." He became so angry. Then Nityānanda Prabhu implored, "My dear brother, why You are very angry? They are the sample of this age. So if You become angry, then whom we are going to deliver? The whole population is full of like Jagāi and Mādhāi. So our preaching is for the most fallen. Why do You remember, why do You forget this? Don't be angry." Then both the brothers, they fell on the feet of Nityānanda. "Please forgive us. We have done wrong. You are so nice people. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa so innocent, and we are so..." This is the effect of seeing a pure devotee. Heart becomes soft. This is the association, effect of association. So they surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, I will accept you. I don't care for your past deeds, but you have to agree that no more this nonsense." That means before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not. Then his life is changed immediately by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is the instruction of Jagāi-Mādhāi. So there were only two Jagāi-Mādhāis, but you'll meet hundreds of Jagāi-Mādhāis. So... But they can be delivered. There is no question that in their past life they had been sinful. Simply they have to agree that "No more this nonsense." Therefore I have kept these restrictions, these four restrictions. Anyone who adopts this life and initiated, and follows these restrictions, then he begins a new life.</span>
<div id="RoomConversationwithRosicruciansAugust131973Paris_0" class="quote" parent="1973_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="61" link="Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris" link_text="Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris">
 
<div class="heading">One initiation after one initiation, there is no progressive rules? Therefore I want to know what are the principles, rules and regulation of the order.
=== 1972 Conversations and Morning Walks ===
</div>
 
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris|Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Guru-gaurāṅga: He doesn't think that someone who kills animals would like to enter, but if a butcher wants to enter, that's okay, and gradually they'll elevate him. (break)</p>
<span class="q_heading">'''That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer."'''</span>
<p>Prabhupāda: ...on principle the order does not allow animal killing, is it?</p>
 
<p>Yogeśvara: They would rather not see anyone killed. Ideally, on an ideal level, their movement would not want to see animals killed, anyone killed.</p>
<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura|Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura]]:'''
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore I want to know what are the principles, rules and regulation of the order.</p>
 
<p>Yogeśvara: Their principles are love, beauty, harmony, peace. (break)</p>
Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66]. So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) [break]... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.
<p>Guru-gaurāṅga: He says there are no rules, but as you progress, one initiation after another initiation, if you start out as a butcher, then gradually in your own self, you will wish to give it up. But there are no rules. (break)</p>
 
<p>Prabhupāda: ...one initiation after one initiation, there is no progressive rules?</p>
Bob: So Christ's suffering was of that nature?
</div>
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
<div id="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="7" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1974 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1974 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
 
</div>
Bob: Was Christ's suffering this...
<div id="MorningWalkMarch121974Vrndavana_0" class="quote" parent="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="34" link="Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana" link_text="Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana">
 
<div class="heading">So in this way, our society should be managed. Not that "Give me second initiation, a sacred thread." And after getting it, business finished: "Now I'm liberated. Let me eat and sleep." This should be stopped.
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that he took the sinful reaction of all the people, therefore he suffered.
</div>
 
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana|Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Bhagavān: The whole idea is that at the end of everyone's life, everyone is required to leave home, perform devotional activities, but not necessarily take sannyāsa.</p>
Bob: I see.
<p>Prabhupāda: Devotional activities, either he leaves from home or not leaves, that doesn't matter. It must continue from the very beginning. For the management of affairs, we require to divide. Because there are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya. And those who are fit for producing food, taking care of the cows, they should be trained as vaiśya. And the balance, they're all śūdras. This is the division. You... Everywhere you'll find this division, natural. One class of men, very intelligent. One class of men, very strong, good brain for management, administration. (aside) Jaya. One class of men, fit for tilling the ground, field, and produce food, take care of the cows. And the balance, śūdra. That's all. So in our society, this division should be there. The most intelligent class of men, they should be engaged in preaching, reading books and instructing, taking care of Deity worship, temple, and another class should be strong managers, that things are going on nicely. Everyone is engaged, not that eating and sleeping. Everyone must be engaged, employed. So, so if one is very much adapted for eating and sleeping, he should be engaged with plows. You see. He must be activity. Otherwise, there must be dysentery, eating and sleeping. He cannot digest. Yes. So in this way, our society should be managed. Not that "Give me second initiation, a sacred thread." And after getting it, business finished: "Now I'm liberated. Let me eat and sleep." This should be stopped. We have got fifty bighās of land, and I have calculated in Māyāpura, setting aside twenty bighās for the temple and grazing ground for the cows, thirty bighās of land. The production should be three hundred mounds of grains. And three hundred mounds of grain, I have calculated.</p>
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: He said... That is the Bible, that he has taken all the sinful reactions of the people and he sacrificed his life. But these Christian people, they have made it a law that "Christ will suffer and we shall do all nonsense." Such great fools they are. They are... "Let Jesus Christ make contract for taking all one sinful reaction, and we will go on with all nonsense." That is their religion. This... They are not in sense that "Christ is so magnanimous that he took all our sins and he has suffered... We stop all these sins!" They have not come to that sense. They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?
</div>
 
<div id="MorningWalkMarch231974Bombay_1" class="quote" parent="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="43" link="Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay" link_text="Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay">
Bob: It is so.
<div class="heading">We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process.
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. [break] ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." [break] ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. [break] ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. [break]... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay|Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: According to our Vaiṣṇava principles, ādau gurvāśrayam, the first business is to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. Then one has to inquire about sad-dharma. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. One should follow the footprints of the previous ācāryas. This is the process, one after another. So first thing is ādau gurvāśrayam, one has to accept a guru. So you may, you should, I mean to say, check whether he's guru or not. That is allowed. It is said for one year the śiṣya and the guru should meet together...</p>
 
<p>Dr. Patel: And don't talk.</p>
Bob: Yes, yes, yes.
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh? No, the guru, I mean, the aspirant śiṣya will hear and study whether he's actually fit for becoming guru. Similarly, the guru will also study that whether he's actually fit for becoming a... Just like in our society. We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process.</p>
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: That is my misdeed, that I accept a disciple who is nonsense. That is my misdeed.
</div>
 
<div id="MorningWalkApril201974Hyderabad_2" class="quote" parent="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="69" link="Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad" link_text="Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad">
Bob: This happens on occasion?
<div class="heading">Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater.
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is sure to happen because we are accepting so many men. But it is the duty of the disciple to be cautious. That "My spiritual master saved me. I may not put him again into these sufferings." [break] When the spiritual master is in suffering, Kṛṣṇa saves him. Kṛṣṇa thinks, "Oh, he has taken so much responsibility for delivering a fallen person." So Kṛṣṇa is there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. Because the spiritual master takes the risk on account of Kṛṣṇa.</span>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad|Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: But you do your business. You don't follow them. That's all. You remain perfect. There are many imperfects, admitting, but you try to remain perfect so that they may see you, your behavior, and they may follow you. If everyone is sincere in his activity, then where is the question? The society means if I am defective, I am seeing that you are doing nicely, so I will be ashamed. That is also teaching. Actually that should be the practice. If I cannot finish my sixteen rounds due to some business, then next day I must finish it. If you say that "Next day also, I am busy," then you should forego your eating and sleeping and finish it. That is the way. You are so busy, but you do not forget your eating and sleeping. That is cheating. If you are so busy that you forget your eating and sleeping, then I can consider that you are very busy. But you do not forget this portion. "Whenever there is opportunity, I sleep and eat. And I have no time for chanting"—this is cheating. How long you can go on by cheating? You must finish it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater. What to speak of his becoming a Vaiṣṇava, he is a cheater. He breaks all his promises. Therefore after seeing, observing a person is doing everything, then say second initiation, or then he should not be recommended for second initiation unless the president and the other authorities see that he is doing nicely, he is following.</p>
 
</div>
<span class="q_heading">'''After initiation if she smokes, that's not good.'''</span>
</div>
 
<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles|Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles]]:'''
</div>
 
<div id="MorningWalkJuly11975Denver_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="119" link="Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver" link_text="Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver">
Jayatīrtha: She is a 40-years-old lady, her name is Lucille. She is very much actually convinced of our philosophy and is devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the only thing is, because she comes conditioned from a previous life, can't give up, has a very hard time giving up smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. She's been trying for about nine months to give up these things, (indistinct) but she can't do it. Still she is desirous of initiation. So I don't know what to (indistinct)
<div class="heading">After initiation. I gave her proper respect. Mother, after all, she is. She is fortunate mother. She has produced such nice sons. And I offered her respect.
 
</div>
Prabhupāda: No. You must at least promise that he gives [break] And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.</span>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver|Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: Your mother was very angry upon us. (laughter) You know that? When she came to see me, I told, "Mrs. Bruce, can you give me some money?" (laughing) (Imitating angry woman's voice:) "I have given you two sons!" (laughter) She was very angry. "Still you want money?" (laughter) "And that's all right."</p>
 
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You asked them to bow down to her?</p>
=== 1974 Conversations and Morning Walks ===
<p>Prabhupāda: No, I asked him to bow down to your mother.</p>
 
<p>Brahmānanda: Yes, at initiation.</p>
<span class="q_heading">'''So in this way, our society should be managed. Not that "Give me second initiation, a sacred thread." And after getting it, business finished: "Now I'm liberated. Let me eat and sleep." This should be stopped. '''</span>
<p>Prabhupāda: After initiation.</p>
 
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did she like...</p>
<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana|Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana]]:'''
<p>Prabhupāda: I gave her proper respect. Mother, after all, she is. She is fortunate mother. She has produced such nice sons. And I offered her respect, yes. Any of your mother and father, they are all very fortunate. And you are doing... giving the best service to your family. Our Nitāi's mother came. She looked very nice lady, yes. I think you are the first child.</p>
 
</div>
Bhagavān: The whole idea is that at the end of everyone's life, everyone is required to leave home, perform devotional activities, but not necessarily take sannyāsa.
</div>
 
<div id="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="9" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1976 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1976 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
Prabhupāda: Devotional activities, either he leaves from home or not leaves, that doesn't matter. It must continue from the very beginning. For the management of affairs, we require to divide. Because there are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya. And those who are fit for producing food, taking care of the cows, they should be trained as vaiśya. And the balance, they're all śūdras. This is the division. You... Everywhere you'll find this division, natural. One class of men, very intelligent. One class of men, very strong, good brain for management, administration. (aside) Jaya. One class of men, fit for tilling the ground, field, and produce food, take care of the cows. And the balance, śūdra. That's all. So in our society, this division should be there. The most intelligent class of men, they should be engaged in preaching, reading books and instructing, taking care of Deity worship, temple, and another class should be strong managers, that things are going on nicely. Everyone is engaged, not that eating and sleeping. Everyone must be engaged, employed. So, so if one is very much adapted for eating and sleeping, he should be engaged with plows. You see. He must be activity. Otherwise, there must be dysentery, eating and sleeping. He cannot digest. Yes. So in this way, our society should be managed. Not that "Give me second initiation, a sacred thread." And after getting it, business finished: "Now I'm liberated. Let me eat and sleep." This should be stopped. We have got fifty bighās of land, and I have calculated in Māyāpura, setting aside twenty bighās for the temple and grazing ground for the cows, thirty bighās of land. The production should be three hundred mounds of grains. And three hundred mounds of grain, I have calculated.</span>
</div>
 
<div id="MorningWalkFebruary101976Mayapura_0" class="quote" parent="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="28" link="Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura" link_text="Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura">
<span class="q_heading">'''We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process. '''</span>
<div class="heading">I did not go to parikrama. He very much appreciated. I preferred to hear him than go to parikrama. That he appreciated.  After that, I took initiation.
 
</div>
<span class="CON-statistics">'''[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay|Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay]]:'''
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura|Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned once that most of the parikrama devotees, they wanted to go on parikrama but he was speaking?</p>
 
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. So I did not go to parikrama, so he very much appreciated. There was announcement that "Now parikrama will start in the evening at five, and Prabhupāda also will speak. So anyone who wants to hear Prabhupāda, he can stay. Otherwise be ready for going." So about a dozen men remained, and all went to parikrama. So I was at that time new man—not exactly new man, but not recognized disciple. I did not go. So he saw that I am sitting, I did not go to parikrama. He very much appreciated. I preferred to hear him than go to parikrama. That he appreciated.</p>
Prabhupāda: According to our Vaiṣṇava principles, ādau gurvāśrayam, the first business is to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. Then one has to inquire about sad-dharma. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. One should follow the footprints of the previous ācāryas. This is the process, one after another. So first thing is ādau gurvāśrayam, one has to accept a guru. So you may, you should, I mean to say, check whether he's guru or not. That is allowed. It is said for one year the śiṣya and the guru should meet together...
<p>Hari-śauri: That was the same time that you took initiation?</p>
 
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. After that, I took initiation.</p>
Dr. Patel: And don't talk.
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where was the initiation ceremony?</p>
 
<p>Prabhupāda: That Allahabad.</p>
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, the guru, I mean, the aspirant śiṣya will hear and study whether he's actually fit for becoming guru. Similarly, the guru will also study that whether he's actually fit for becoming a... Just like in our society. We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process.</span>
</div>
</div>
<div id="AnswerstoaQuestionnairefromBhavansJournalJune281976Vrndavana_1" class="quote" parent="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="169" link="Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana" link_text="Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana">
<div class="heading">That is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there.
</div>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana|Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaiṣṇava, a dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is brāhmaṇa. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with God, Viṣṇu, then he becomes a Vaiṣṇava. That is perfection of life.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="10" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1977 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1977 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
</div>
<div id="RoomConversationMarch271977Bombay_0" class="quote" parent="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="123" link="Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay" link_text="Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay">
<div class="heading">"I remember once in Vṛndāvana, though, that you said that if someone deliberately breaks the principles even after initiation, he can become a dog in his next life because of that." That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
</div>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay|Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Svarūpa Dāmodara: He works very nice. He is very good in experiments, making compounds.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Great loss. He will get again good birth to become Vaiṣṇava. There is no doubt. He was initiated. Again he will get chance. Anyone who has joined this movement and given little service, his human life next birth guaranteed. There is no doubt. And then he will get again chance to develop. He is not going to be cats and dogs.</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: I remember once in Vṛndāvana, though, that you said that if someone deliberately breaks the principles even after initiation, he can become a dog in his next life because of that.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ConversationswithKirtanaGroupsMay291977Vrndavana_1" class="quote" parent="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="183" link="Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana" link_text="Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana">
<div class="heading">So now you can go attend the sacrifice. Then, conveniently, you have to take the gāyatrī-mantra, and he has to take the gāyatrī-mantra after initiation.
</div>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana|Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: So now you can go attend the, yes, sacrifice. Then, conveniently, you have to take the gāyatrī-mantra, and he has to take the gāyatrī-mantra. Then it will be all right.</p>
<p>Bhakti-caitanya: So come again to take that...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, after initiation. And here is...</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He already had gāyatrī.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, he has got?</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>

Latest revision as of 16:06, 7 February 2020

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.
Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you tell me something about Caitanya's initiation in Vaiṣṇava faith? When He was initiated?

Prabhupāda: After His father's death it is the custom amongst the Hindus to offer oblations at Gayā. There is a temple, Viṣṇu temple. They offer prasādam. This is a Hindu custom. And with that prasādam the forefathers and the father is offered. So He went to perform that ceremony and by chance He met Īśvara Purī and He was initiated by Īśvara Purī. And after coming back from Gayā, He became very much emotional for Kṛṣṇa, and sometimes people thought that He has become crazy. So His mother treated with some oil. But learned devotees, they said that He has got devotional emotion. So His initiation was in Gayā, when He went to perform that ceremony. So you can show the Gayā temple or some temple. And He's offering oblations, He's meeting His spiritual master, he's initiating. In this way you can make it two, three scenes. And He became emotional chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa after initiation.

Before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not. Then his life is changed immediately by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is the instruction of Jagāi-Mādhāi.
Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So the other brother, Mādhāi said, "Oh, what you are doing? What you are doing? He's innocent." This news was reached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much angry. He came, "Bring My cakra. I shall kill these rascals immediately." He became so angry. Then Nityānanda Prabhu implored, "My dear brother, why You are very angry? They are the sample of this age. So if You become angry, then whom we are going to deliver? The whole population is full of like Jagāi and Mādhāi. So our preaching is for the most fallen. Why do You remember, why do You forget this? Don't be angry." Then both the brothers, they fell on the feet of Nityānanda. "Please forgive us. We have done wrong. You are so nice people. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa so innocent, and we are so..." This is the effect of seeing a pure devotee. Heart becomes soft. This is the association, effect of association. So they surrendered. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, I will accept you. I don't care for your past deeds, but you have to agree that no more this nonsense." That means before initiation one might have done all nonsense things. That doesn't matter. That is not disqualification. But after initiation one should not. Then his life is changed immediately by this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. This is the instruction of Jagāi-Mādhāi. So there were only two Jagāi-Mādhāis, but you'll meet hundreds of Jagāi-Mādhāis. So... But they can be delivered. There is no question that in their past life they had been sinful. Simply they have to agree that "No more this nonsense." Therefore I have kept these restrictions, these four restrictions. Anyone who adopts this life and initiated, and follows these restrictions, then he begins a new life.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer."
Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.

Bob: So Christ's suffering was of that nature?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bob: Was Christ's suffering this...

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that he took the sinful reaction of all the people, therefore he suffered.

Bob: I see.

Prabhupāda: He said... That is the Bible, that he has taken all the sinful reactions of the people and he sacrificed his life. But these Christian people, they have made it a law that "Christ will suffer and we shall do all nonsense." Such great fools they are. They are... "Let Jesus Christ make contract for taking all one sinful reaction, and we will go on with all nonsense." That is their religion. This... They are not in sense that "Christ is so magnanimous that he took all our sins and he has suffered... We stop all these sins!" They have not come to that sense. They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?

Bob: It is so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. (break) ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. (break)... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?

Bob: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is my misdeed, that I accept a disciple who is nonsense. That is my misdeed.

Bob: This happens on occasion?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is sure to happen because we are accepting so many men. But it is the duty of the disciple to be cautious. That "My spiritual master saved me. I may not put him again into these sufferings." (break) When the spiritual master is in suffering, Kṛṣṇa saves him. Kṛṣṇa thinks, "Oh, he has taken so much responsibility for delivering a fallen person." So Kṛṣṇa is there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Because the spiritual master takes the risk on account of Kṛṣṇa.

After initiation if she smokes, that's not good.
Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: She is a 40-years-old lady, her name is Lucille. She is very much actually convinced of our philosophy and is devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the only thing is, because she comes conditioned from a previous life, can't give up, has a very hard time giving up smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. She's been trying for about nine months to give up these things, (indistinct) but she can't do it. Still she is desirous of initiation. So I don't know what to (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No. You must at least promise that he gives (break) And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

One initiation after one initiation, there is no progressive rules? Therefore I want to know what are the principles, rules and regulation of the order.
Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Guru-gaurāṅga: He doesn't think that someone who kills animals would like to enter, but if a butcher wants to enter, that's okay, and gradually they'll elevate him. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...on principle the order does not allow animal killing, is it?

Yogeśvara: They would rather not see anyone killed. Ideally, on an ideal level, their movement would not want to see animals killed, anyone killed.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I want to know what are the principles, rules and regulation of the order.

Yogeśvara: Their principles are love, beauty, harmony, peace. (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: He says there are no rules, but as you progress, one initiation after another initiation, if you start out as a butcher, then gradually in your own self, you will wish to give it up. But there are no rules. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...one initiation after one initiation, there is no progressive rules?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

So in this way, our society should be managed. Not that "Give me second initiation, a sacred thread." And after getting it, business finished: "Now I'm liberated. Let me eat and sleep." This should be stopped.
Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Bhagavān: The whole idea is that at the end of everyone's life, everyone is required to leave home, perform devotional activities, but not necessarily take sannyāsa.

Prabhupāda: Devotional activities, either he leaves from home or not leaves, that doesn't matter. It must continue from the very beginning. For the management of affairs, we require to divide. Because there are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya. And those who are fit for producing food, taking care of the cows, they should be trained as vaiśya. And the balance, they're all śūdras. This is the division. You... Everywhere you'll find this division, natural. One class of men, very intelligent. One class of men, very strong, good brain for management, administration. (aside) Jaya. One class of men, fit for tilling the ground, field, and produce food, take care of the cows. And the balance, śūdra. That's all. So in our society, this division should be there. The most intelligent class of men, they should be engaged in preaching, reading books and instructing, taking care of Deity worship, temple, and another class should be strong managers, that things are going on nicely. Everyone is engaged, not that eating and sleeping. Everyone must be engaged, employed. So, so if one is very much adapted for eating and sleeping, he should be engaged with plows. You see. He must be activity. Otherwise, there must be dysentery, eating and sleeping. He cannot digest. Yes. So in this way, our society should be managed. Not that "Give me second initiation, a sacred thread." And after getting it, business finished: "Now I'm liberated. Let me eat and sleep." This should be stopped. We have got fifty bighās of land, and I have calculated in Māyāpura, setting aside twenty bighās for the temple and grazing ground for the cows, thirty bighās of land. The production should be three hundred mounds of grains. And three hundred mounds of grain, I have calculated.

We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process.
Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: According to our Vaiṣṇava principles, ādau gurvāśrayam, the first business is to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. Then one has to inquire about sad-dharma. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. One should follow the footprints of the previous ācāryas. This is the process, one after another. So first thing is ādau gurvāśrayam, one has to accept a guru. So you may, you should, I mean to say, check whether he's guru or not. That is allowed. It is said for one year the śiṣya and the guru should meet together...

Dr. Patel: And don't talk.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, the guru, I mean, the aspirant śiṣya will hear and study whether he's actually fit for becoming guru. Similarly, the guru will also study that whether he's actually fit for becoming a... Just like in our society. We don't accept immediately. We don't give initiation immediately. First of all lives for some time. Then when he becomes eager, we give the first initiation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then after one year, when he's fit, he's doing everything well, then we initiate him. This is our process.

Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater.
Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But you do your business. You don't follow them. That's all. You remain perfect. There are many imperfects, admitting, but you try to remain perfect so that they may see you, your behavior, and they may follow you. If everyone is sincere in his activity, then where is the question? The society means if I am defective, I am seeing that you are doing nicely, so I will be ashamed. That is also teaching. Actually that should be the practice. If I cannot finish my sixteen rounds due to some business, then next day I must finish it. If you say that "Next day also, I am busy," then you should forego your eating and sleeping and finish it. That is the way. You are so busy, but you do not forget your eating and sleeping. That is cheating. If you are so busy that you forget your eating and sleeping, then I can consider that you are very busy. But you do not forget this portion. "Whenever there is opportunity, I sleep and eat. And I have no time for chanting"—this is cheating. How long you can go on by cheating? You must finish it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater. What to speak of his becoming a Vaiṣṇava, he is a cheater. He breaks all his promises. Therefore after seeing, observing a person is doing everything, then say second initiation, or then he should not be recommended for second initiation unless the president and the other authorities see that he is doing nicely, he is following.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

After initiation. I gave her proper respect. Mother, after all, she is. She is fortunate mother. She has produced such nice sons. And I offered her respect.
Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Your mother was very angry upon us. (laughter) You know that? When she came to see me, I told, "Mrs. Bruce, can you give me some money?" (laughing) (Imitating angry woman's voice:) "I have given you two sons!" (laughter) She was very angry. "Still you want money?" (laughter) "And that's all right."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You asked them to bow down to her?

Prabhupāda: No, I asked him to bow down to your mother.

Brahmānanda: Yes, at initiation.

Prabhupāda: After initiation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did she like...

Prabhupāda: I gave her proper respect. Mother, after all, she is. She is fortunate mother. She has produced such nice sons. And I offered her respect, yes. Any of your mother and father, they are all very fortunate. And you are doing... giving the best service to your family. Our Nitāi's mother came. She looked very nice lady, yes. I think you are the first child.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

I did not go to parikrama. He very much appreciated. I preferred to hear him than go to parikrama. That he appreciated. After that, I took initiation.
Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned once that most of the parikrama devotees, they wanted to go on parikrama but he was speaking?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I did not go to parikrama, so he very much appreciated. There was announcement that "Now parikrama will start in the evening at five, and Prabhupāda also will speak. So anyone who wants to hear Prabhupāda, he can stay. Otherwise be ready for going." So about a dozen men remained, and all went to parikrama. So I was at that time new man—not exactly new man, but not recognized disciple. I did not go. So he saw that I am sitting, I did not go to parikrama. He very much appreciated. I preferred to hear him than go to parikrama. That he appreciated.

Hari-śauri: That was the same time that you took initiation?

Prabhupāda: Yes. After that, I took initiation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where was the initiation ceremony?

Prabhupāda: That Allahabad.

That is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaiṣṇava, a dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is brāhmaṇa. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with God, Viṣṇu, then he becomes a Vaiṣṇava. That is perfection of life.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

"I remember once in Vṛndāvana, though, that you said that if someone deliberately breaks the principles even after initiation, he can become a dog in his next life because of that." That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He works very nice. He is very good in experiments, making compounds.

Prabhupāda: Great loss. He will get again good birth to become Vaiṣṇava. There is no doubt. He was initiated. Again he will get chance. Anyone who has joined this movement and given little service, his human life next birth guaranteed. There is no doubt. And then he will get again chance to develop. He is not going to be cats and dogs.

Hari-śauri: I remember once in Vṛndāvana, though, that you said that if someone deliberately breaks the principles even after initiation, he can become a dog in his next life because of that.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

So now you can go attend the sacrifice. Then, conveniently, you have to take the gāyatrī-mantra, and he has to take the gāyatrī-mantra after initiation.
Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So now you can go attend the, yes, sacrifice. Then, conveniently, you have to take the gāyatrī-mantra, and he has to take the gāyatrī-mantra. Then it will be all right.

Bhakti-caitanya: So come again to take that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, after initiation. And here is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He already had gāyatrī.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he has got?