Karandhara: They say we're just dreamers.
Prabhupāda: Dreamer?
Karandhara: Dreamers. That we make up fantasies about God and heaven, but actually,
Prabhupāda: Why fancies? You have no brain to understand; therefore you say, "fancy"
Karandhara: Well, their common ground of objectivity is what they can perceive with the senses.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can sense with the senses. You perceive with the senses the sand, but who has made the sand? You have not made. Why you are so fool that you don't understand this? This sand... Here is a perception, direct perception. This water, vast water-direct perception. Who has made it?
Karandhara: Well, they say, "If it was made by God, we'd be able to see him just like the sand."
Prabhupāda: Yes, but you have to get the eyes. That I say. Because you are blind, you have cataract, I have to operate. You'll see. You'll see. You come to treatment. Therefore the śāstra says, "Go to guru and be treated and try to understand." But how you can see with your blind eyes, cataract eyes?
Karandhara: Well, that vision, that seeing, is supramundane. They only consider the mundane vision.
Prabhupāda: Yes, supramundane, everything is supramundane. Because... How do you know that there is nothing in the sky? Now you say it is vacant. So your eyes is deficient. It is not vacant. There are innumerable planets, but you cannot see. You cannot see. You are blind. Therefore, because it is not in your power to see, you have to hear from me. "Yes, there are millions of stars there." You have to accept it. You cannot see. But because you cannot see does not mean that it is vacant. It is deficiency of your senses.