Prabhupāda: They cannot give any real position. They are studying so many molecules, so many atoms, so many this, so many... They are mixing... They are... That is already going on. How it is going on? Who has set up the machine going on? That they do not know.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Right. They don't know the key part of it.
Prabhupāda: Neither they can set up similar arrangement. They're simply studying.
Yogi Amrit Desai: They can study what is, but they do not know how it came about.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So where is jñāna? Ajñāna.
Yogi Amrit Desai: And it can at the most increase the convenience on the material plane.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna, real jñāna, is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Etaj jñānam iti proktam ajñānaṁ yad ato 'nyathā. What is jñāna, that is stated. But where is jñāna? Everyone is ajñāna. General people, they're karmīs and, little more, jñānīs. But jñāna is not complete unless he knows the Supreme Lord.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Unless he has realized.
Prabhupāda: Not realized, no. Just like we are talking personally. This is...
Jagadīśa: Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam, ācāryopāsanaṁ śaucam... (BG 13.8).
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is ācāryopāsanam. That is required. But these yogis, jñānīs, karmīs, they have no ācārya. They are self-made. Just like Dr. Russer.(?). He's self-made. So what he will do? Now he's caught up. He's in the trap. He's not a scientific man, but he presented himself as very scientific, so now he's caught up.