Prabhupāda: (break) So if you are not independent, what is the value of your thinking independently?
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none. None.
Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.
Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.
Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.