Indian man: In bhakti you surrender. Then you get the jñāna.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: After bhakti you get the jñāna. (Hindi) We mūḍhas, we go on argument, but unless and until we mūḍhas are convinced, we will remain mūḍhas. We can't help it.
Prabhupāda: There are big mūḍhas who are never convinced.
Dr. Patel: Like me. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: No, no, listen...
Dr. Patel: I will argue with you instead of.... Mahārāja, you see, I have.... Again we had a very great altercation within myself. I was a.... (break) I may tell you, I have studied the Vaiṣṇava's philosophy from various angles. The last two years I have been making a very deep study of it, and I am a student of this theologian philosophy. I think he is absolutely right, that complete surrendering to God by bhakti...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...you get complete jñāna.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.