Karandhara: The young man can understand that the degradation has occurred because of ignorance. The knowledge has been forgotten by which the upliftment or evolution can continue. So Prabhupāda and this movement, we're representing that knowledge. The knowledge has always been there, but it's been lost. It's been forgotten. So if that knowledge is represented, and made available, then that ignorance becomes dispelled, and the advancement can again go on.
M. Lallier: Yes, but degradation is not...? Is it not a law of nature?
Karandhara: Well, the law, the dynamic, or the dynamics of the law is the preponderance of godlessness.
Prabhupāda: No, the law is all right. Suppose one is degraded to become a criminal, thief, but he can be raised also to become a high, saintly person.
Karandhara: I think what he's asking, Prabhupāda, isn't the degradation... Because in the Vedas it outlines the ages, succeeding one another, and there're different characteristics, isn't it inevitable that it's going to occur, that the devolution occurs inevitably without anyone's being able to change it.
Prabhupāda: No. It is just like, winter season. The season is winter, but still, you can keep yourself warm. If you like, you can keep yourself in warm. So daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Nature's course is very strong, going on, according to the program, but mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he's above this degradation."