Thief (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"thief" |"thief's" |"thiefing" |"thiefs" |"thievery" |"thieves" |"thieving"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: thief or thiefing or thiefs or thief's or thievery or thieves or thieving not "rogue and thief"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is bhakti. Just like you are walking, some money falls down from your pocket. Then you forgot. And somebody, "Oh, here is some money"; he takes it. And somebody takes it but offers to you. Who is the better man?

Indian man: The person offering.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That who takes it and puts in the pocket, he is a thief. And who takes it and offers to you, he is sincere friend. So we can use everything only for Kṛṣṇa. And therefore we are friend to Kṛṣṇa. And you are thief. Kṛṣṇa's property you are using unauthorizedly. Therefore you are a thief.

Devotee (3): (break) The Christians say that God has given us certain things to enjoy. Just like I was talking to one Christian about eating meat, and he said, "Well, I enjoy eating meat."

Prabhupāda: So, the tiger will say he will enjoy you. Why do you protest against the tiger?

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: He is thinking he has become very intelligent that he can deceive God, deceive spiritual master and be happy. He does not know that he can neither deceive God or His representative, guru. That is not possible. But he is thinking like that. And he is being put into suffering condition. Just like ordinary thieves and rogues. They think, "I am deceiving government." But government has got so many agents that he will be arrested. But this sinful government may not be so expert, but how he can deceive the government of Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "I shall steal. I shall steal one cucumber." And another one thinks, "If I steal, I shall steal the diamond." But the stealing propensity is there, hīrā-cora or kṣīrā-cora. "Well, I am stealing one..., only one cucumber. That is not very dangerous." But, but to the eyes of law, both of them are criminal, either you take hīrā or kṣīrā. Big thief and small thief, that's all. Thief. You are thief. So we manufacture concoction that "Yes, I have got this stealing propensity. So I'll not steal diamond. I'll steal kṣīrā, not hīrā." This is only mental concoction, but he is a thief.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...What they'll encourage? To become thief?

Devotee (1): It looks like that.

Prabhupāda: A secular state?

Hṛdayānanda: To encourage nationalism, serving the government, it's economic development...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The people become thieves and rogues, then how the economic development will be possible?

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Bhāgavata: In New York one policeman admitted that when the police would capture the thieves with the stolen goods, then they would confiscate the goods and keep it privately in their homes and sell the stolen goods and get the money for themselves. They would not return it to the owner, but they would utilize it for making money. So they are also thieves.

Prabhupāda: So if this is the practice in a country which is so opulent, just imagine what is there in India.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: In Navadvīpa... You have heard the name of Vamsidāsa Bābājī. So sometimes, when his things were stolen, the disciples will cry that "It is stolen." So he said, "Why you are bothering? One thief gives; another thief takes. That's all. Who gave the money, he is also thief, and who has taken away, he is also thief. So why you are bothering?" One thief gives; another thief takes.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Just like a thief. He also has got the conscience, "Why shall I steal?"

Ātreya Ṛṣi: "This or this."

Prabhupāda: "This or this." But he knows that "If I do it, I shall be punished."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But when an individual spirit...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that actual freedom, though? Is that freedom?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body."

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. Brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. A rogue, thief, cannot become brāhmaṇa. (laughs) Brāhmaṇa is perfect gentleman. Who feels for others, that is gentleman. Who does not feel for others, for his sense gratification, he is a rogue. A brāhmaṇa, a gentleman, must feel that "Why there should be animal killing?" That is gentleman. If you are killed, you cry and you are.... Hundreds and thousands of animals you are killing on the plea that they have no soul? Lowest class, narādhama. They have been described as narādhama. So narādhama civilization, how he can be happy? There must be frustration.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gentleman means that if you go to a gentleman's store, "Beware of the dog. Beware of the revolver." This is your culture. And when you go to the airport everyone is searched out, pocket. So who is gentleman? Is that gentleman? There is no gentleman in the world. All rogues and thieves, cheaters, bluffers. Now we are creating gentlemen. Otherwise there is no gentlemen. Here is the proof. If we are gentleman, why we are being checked in the airport? Hm? This is the proof. There is no gentlemen.

Akṣayānanda: Because they're not expecting any gentlemen.

Prabhupāda: That means there is no.... In other words, there is no gentlemen.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All rascals. How they are risking their own life, karma-bandhana. Just like a thief. He is thinking "I am doing very nice business. Without any..., I am getting so much money." That is risky.

Hari-śauri: Perhaps we cut across this way? This is a dead end here.

Prabhupāda: No, we shall come back.

Jayādvaita: You gave that other example in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that Nṛsiṁha-deva let Hiraṇyakaśipu slip from His hands for a little while just to play with him.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: For our personal comfort, we, our students are lying on the floor. They are not using the money for purchasing nice furniture. No personal comfort. But if you say that "You are purchasing big, big car," yes, for going quickly to serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main point. If I can go and serve Kṛṣṇa within a minute, why shall I wait for one hour? So we take all advantages. After all, it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They say that "We have manufactured." That's all.... But we say that Kṛṣṇa has manufactured. So they.... This philosophy, it is little difficult to understand by the dull men, that nothing is without Kṛṣṇa. Everything.... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Sarvam, when we say sarvam, how we can exclude this and that? Everything is in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, sarvam. Sarvam means everything. So how can you discriminate, "This is material; this is spiritual"? The discrimination is that when it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is material, and when it is used for Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual. That is the explanation of sarvam. Just like a thief has stolen my money.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may call, there are thieves, rogues and thieves. That's all.

Devotee (3): Exploiting.

Guru-kṛpā: Now they're dividing up the booty, fighting over it.

Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in.... Now they are making laws, morality.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in.... Now they are making laws, morality.

Devotee (1): They have a saying, "Honor among thieves."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) This has been named by father, kaitava, simply cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). The duplicity, hypocrisy, is there completely rejected.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are big cheaters. You don't cheat two rupees, three rupees. Two millions. (laughs) That is accusation, Alexander and the thief. The thief accused Alexander the Great that "What is the difference between you and me? I am a small thief; you are a big thief. That's all. Why you are punishing me? You are a big thief. You are doing same thing." Then he was let loose. "Yes, what is difference? (laughs) I am a big thief." (break) ...means Alexander the Great, actually he was great. Otherwise he is the emperor, and ordinary thief is accusing him and he said, "Yes, I am thief." He admitted. That is greatness.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Pretend? Kick them! Why you should accept pretension? Then you are a fool also. You say "pretend," and still, you have to talk about them. That means you are also faithless. Why should you talk about the pretension? Pretension is pretension. That is faithlessness. Sometimes they pretend honest, but he's a thief. What is this philosophy? Thief is thief. That's all. (break) ...thoroughly the science of God. That is Bhagavad-gītā. The words which is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, that can be spoken only by God. Nobody else can speak like that. Who can say? Who has the right to say that "You surrender unto Me"? Nobody has right. Only God can say. That is God.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Where you get this mind? Where you get this body? It is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhūmir āpaḥ analaḥ vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva, prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. He claims, "It is My property. What you have got? And you are also My part and parcel. So why you are...?" This is all nonsense, that "I give up." What you can give up? You cannot give up, you cannot enjoy. That is your position. If you enjoy, you are a thief. And if you say, "I have given up," you are a false. Therefore sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Somebody is thinking "I am giving up, and now I've taken laṅgoṭā, (?)(indistinct) I have become sannyāsī." And whose laṅgoṭā it is? You have got still the laṅgoṭā.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: You have got mind. Oh, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa. What you have got that you'll give up? You have stolen everything. You don't accept the real proprietor, and you are thinking, "I am the proprietor." That is your fault. That is miscreant. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). It is said there. Read Bhagavad-gītā carefully, that everyone is a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate. All thiefs, rogues, rascals. That is the substance. If one does not accept God, the Supreme, and does not surrender, he is miscreant, mūḍha. Mūḍha. He does not know what does he possess, and he's thinking, "I am giving up." What you are giving up? You do not possess anything. A mūḍha, falsely thinking that "I am giving up." What you have got? Nobody can give up, nobody can enjoy.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: The things belongs to the master. But if he serves very nicely, master becomes pleased, "Oh, he is very faithful servant. Perfect." Faithful means he knows that "Everything belongs to master, and everything should be utilized for master's pleasure, not for my pleasure." Then he's a thief, he's a bad servant.

Guru-kṛpā: Prabhupāda, what about these people that perform so-called bhakti-yoga but their aim is to merge?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? That is not bhakti-yoga. That is not bhakti-yoga. Who says that is bhakti-yoga?

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: That, that is not.... Cheating! That is another cheating. (Hindi) There is the same example. "Now I am serving the master. Just as soon as the master will be somewhere, I'll take everything." That kind of servant. Servant serving the master, but the intention is that "As soon as master is away, I'll take everything." (laughter) "I'll become Nārāyaṇa. Let me serve now Nārāyaṇa, and as soon as there is the opportunity, I shall become Nārāyaṇa." They are thieves, rogues, these duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. Very faithful servant. He's planning how to usurp everything belonging to the master, and saying, "I am very faithful servant." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4).

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: He's thief; he's not servant. He's a thief. He has taken service as a matter of means that "If I remain as a servant, I'll get the opportunity of stealing." So he's not a servant, he's a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). (break) ...becoming a thief, if you have got some desire, you ask, "Kṛṣṇa, I am very poor. Please give me some money." That you can do. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. Ārtaḥ, one who is distressed, he's praying. That is beginning. But when he's advanced.... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, this weakness..., you are already necessity of so many things. Make all the necessities zero. At last we at least feel necessity of a woman. (laughing) That you cannot avoid. And then you'll be punished with shoes. (laughing) When you'll become a servant of woman, then you, "No, what is the necessity?" Become thief, you'll become rascal, rogue, you'll be beaten by shoes, and everything is gone. Now these are your necessities. Hippies, they have left no necessities, but the woman is there. (laughing) They have necessities there. Nature is so powerful you'll have to feel this necessity, and with this necessity you'll require so many necessities. (Sanskrit) They're talking like madmen. What the madman does not talk, and what the goat does not eat? (laughing) Means rascals.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: There is purpose. We have explained so many times. The purpose is that we have come here to enjoy, but this enjoyment is false. God has given us the chance to enjoy, to experience that this enjoyment is not good. They are simply suffering. They cannot enjoy. The plan is that he's given the chance to enjoy and experience that here there is no enjoyment and he's simply suffering. So when he comes to his sense, he again goes back home. The thief, he thinks that to live in the prison house is very good: "I haven't got to work, and I shall get my food and shelter." That is not.... That is a false enjoyment.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

controller, so that he could enjoy without the feeling of guilt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the whole idea. Thieves and rogues, they think "If there's no government, then we can do whatever we like." Who is there of the thieves and rogues?

Hari-śauri: That description's given when after the brāhmaṇas killed King Vena, they saw a great huge dust cloud on the horizon from all the thieves and rogues rushing back into the kingdom (laughing) when there was no ruler.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda:

ko nv artha-tṛṣṇāṁ visṛjet

prāṇebhyo 'pi ya īpsitaḥ

yaṁ krīṇāty asubhiḥ preṣṭhais

taskaraḥ sevako vaṇik

"Money is so dear that one conceives of money as being sweeter than honey. Therefore, who can give up the desire to accumulate money, especially in household life? Thieves, professional servants, soldiers and merchants try to acquire money even..."

Prabhupāda: Here is a very nice example. Soldiers. They know "We are going to give up our life." And what for? "Money." (laughs) They are prepared to give up life for money. Money is so sweeter than honey. (laughs) And thieves, they go at night for burglary. He knows that "If I trespass anyone's house, he can kill me immediately." But still he takes the risk for money. That is all explained here. What is the verse?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: "Thieves, professional servants, soldiers and merchants try to acquire money even by risking their very dear lives."

Prabhupāda: Merchants also. Formerly, merchants used to go from one country.... And now they also go, now. Facility of transport is easier. Formerly, they had to cross the big ocean, Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, waves, and many of them died. Still, for money, they used to go.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Purport: "How money can be dearer than life is indicated in this verse. Thieves may enter the house of a rich man to steal money at the risk of their lives. Because of trespassing they may be killed by guns or attacked by watchdogs, but still they try to commit burglary. Why do they risk their lives? Only to get some money. Similarly, a professional soldier is recruited into the army, and he accepts such service, with the risk of dying on the battlefield, only for the sake of money. In the same way, merchants go from one country to another on boats at the risk of their lives, or they dive into the water...

Prabhupāda: In 1942 I have seen when war was going on, so, these Britishers wanted soldiers, so they created artificial famine. The people became in need of money, so they enrolled them as soldiers. I have seen it. There was no other way to get money to get commodities at higher price. Artificial famine.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Many of the big parks in the big cities, they are full of thieves and all kinds of other people.

Prabhupāda: That means they cannot improve the condition of the people. Just like at the airport, everyone is checked. There is no gentlemen. Why everyone is checked? That means the whole mass of people, they're all rogues and thieves. Therefore it is necessary to keep an ideal, an ideal class of men brāhmaṇas. Then people will follow. But there is no such.... Everyone is coolie. That's all. Everyone is.

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: He's a thief. He has taken about twenty-five thousand dollars. He's a thief from the very beginning. What he is doing now?

Śrutikīrti: He's working two jobs. They won't allow him in the temple. I think you sent one letter or something.

Prabhupāda: No, he should not be admitted.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: The police were helping the thieves?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think the magistrate even was complicated. And when it was complained, the magistrate said, "Better not to take it seriously; it will be your.... I'll give you some guard."

Hari-śauri: They'll do anything for money.

Prabhupāda: Now, in the Kali-yuga, things will degrade so low that if I see I have no money and if you have got some few cents with you, I shall kill you and take it. That day will come.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Worse, because animal has got some limit, but a human being who has developed consciousness, it is unlimited. Just like a thief is thief, but when an attorney-at-law is a thief, he's a very big thief. Huh?

Hari-śauri: When a man's educated to know the difference...

Prabhupāda: Ordinary thief and educated thief. In your country there are many lawyers. Their only business is how to cheat.

Hari-śauri: Every lawyer. Because they're trying to make money as well, only they're in a better position.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Lawyer is thief, medical man is thief.

Hari-śauri: All thieves. They're all thieves.

Prabhupāda: Then whom to believe? Whom to believe, this is the question.

Hari-śauri: The general public, they are becoming very bitter, very frustrated, because they can't turn to anyone for protection anymore. The government is the biggest thief.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. It is stated that all government men will be rogues and thieves. Rājanyair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanyaiḥ means government men, and dasyu-dharma means practiced to roguery, thieves.

Hari-śauri: American police are well known for being corrupt.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. In India. Police means everyone takes, first of all (indistinct).

Viśvakarmā: They can be saved only by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: They will become powerful. And people will be less intelligent—means less God conscious. Just like when the king is weak, thieves and rogues, they flourish.

Hari-śauri: So we just have to be very strong and uncompromising.

Prabhupāda: How you can compromise with thieves and rogues? Boarding time?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The flight leaves at 5:05. They'll call. They'll call when it's time. The plane doesn't appear to be here just yet.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That is due to misgovernment. There is no king; all rogues and thieves are in the government. Mismanagement. It is the government duty to see that everyone is doing nicely so that they can live peacefully, happily. There must be direction. Just like parentless children. Nobody is to take care; they'll be wretched. So India's position is like that. The parentless children. There is no good government. And they supply this control wheat that is not even touchable. Unfit for human consumption. There is a worm...

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So therefore for knowledge, you have to go to a proficient man or person, that is knowledge. Why do you go to a school and college? Be in knowledge at home. If you want to steal even, you have to learn it from a professional thief, how to cheat, how to steal. That is also another kind of knowledge. You cannot steal unless you become expert by learning how to steal from an expert thief. So knowledge means you have to receive it from higher authority. That is knowledge.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Any knowledge, if you want to get it, you must receive it from a superior person. That is the law. That I already explained. If you want to steal, if you want to become a thief, you have to learn it from an expert thief. So any knowledge. Knowledge means you have to learn it from a superior person. And what to speak of the knowledge of God. That is the ultimate knowledge. Yesterday we were speaking that Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja learned how to make samosas. Now that knowledge is distributed. So every knowledge, you have to learn it from an expert. That is called guru.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: Everywhere now is nasty government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dasyu-dharma, rogues and thieves, they'll... Government means people in general, they are losing their independence. Personal independence, nil. Russia, cent percent, no personal independence. Simply like animals who live.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The purport is that in the Kali-yuga, the government men, they will be all rogues and thieves. So the citizens also follow them. Tan-nethe, śīlācārya. Śīlācārya is their behavior. The politicians, secretaries and big, big officers going to the brothels and drinking wine and enjoying, then what others will not? They will... Go on, second chapter.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They warned me not to go to the Central Park in the evening. They say at night nobody goes there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Except the thieves and killers.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such an important city, and such important park, and nobody can go.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there any stage at which these atheistic people have done anything good by accident?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are robbing, government, dasyu dharmabhiḥ. It is stated, government will be like rogues. As the rogues and thieves, they take away from you by force, the government will do that. In the court, by income tax, so many people are being harassed.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: There is a large organization called Mafia in this country.

Prabhupāda: Mafia?

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: There was no such thing. Sometimes he would hide it even within the ground, because there was no bank. At least in India this was the practice. If you have got some gold, you keep it somewhere confidential within the ground so that it may not be stolen. So everyone should have right to keep his money as he likes. Why government should interfere? Therefore you see the Bhāgavatam, rājanya-dasyu-dharmaḥ.(?) The government men will be like rogues and thieves. By law they will take away. It is now going on in India. I think here it is also? You cannot keep gold. Why I cannot keep gold? If I have secured gold, I can keep it. I want gold. You write, "I promise to pay," so there must be gold coins. I must have. So many difficulties will come in the kingdom of māyā gradually. It is already come. The eight items... What are those items?

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dayā, dharma, religious principles—everything will be reduced. And the government men, instead of giving you protection, they will act like thieves and rogues. You cannot say anything. Very, very precarious condition, all freedom lost. In Russia, all freedom lost. They have no freedom. The professor giving that testimonial, and "Don't publish it." They are appreciating this book, but they cannot say "That is good book." Just see what kind of freedom is there. A nice book, I appreciate; I cannot give in writing.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: They cannot. As soon as anything goes to state especially in India, goes to the government track(?), it is spoiled. Government means all thieves and rogues. How they'll manage? They'll simply swallow whatever they get. Government means... They cannot manage, they are not devotees. It should be in the hands of the devotees. So (indistinct), the paid man, they want some money, that's all. How they can manage temple? It is impossible.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Warn that "Here are thieves, be careful of your pocket. They'll say all bluff and take money from your pocket."

Rūpānuga: We will call a spade a spade.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What do you think, is that right process?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Their only aim is that so long he is in the office, "Let me collect some money," that's all. And that will be the latest atmosphere, dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanyair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. All the government men will become thieves and rogues. Dasyu, dasyu means thieves and rogues. So as the thieves and rogues capture you on the street and ask "Whatever you have got, give, otherwise I shall kill you," so this will be the position in the Kali-yuga. It is happening now. You cannot have any private property; everything you have to declare. Otherwise, it will be taken by force.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Intuition is wrong. It is a practice. A thief thinks "I should steal." His intuition says. He's practiced to steal and intuition says "You steal." That is not guide. Intuition means that things which you are practiced, that's all. You are accustomed, that's all.

Guest (3): How does a man find out what his duty is?

Prabhupāda: Duty is... The śāstra is there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. The Bible is there. So follow.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: All thieves, they are cousin brothers, "Don't expose me and I'll not expose you. Let us keep peace." Two thieves, he knows he is a thief, but if he wants to reveal a thief, then his business will be suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are the greatest cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Chauri chauri mātṛka-bhāi.(?) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Except for you, no one is blowing the whistle on these people. You are like a transcendental detective.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: "France and Napoleon, one." Now where is that rascal? France is there. This is going on. British Empire means bring money, hook or crook, in London, and you get the title, "lord," "baron," this... This was their policy. "Sir." All hooligans, thieves, rogues, they were made big, big respectable people. A deposit in the government, this lord family means they have to deposit, say, ten million pounds, like that, and the government takes that money as fixed deposit, and the interest the family will maintain the aristocracy. This is the lord's family. Some way or other you deposit ten million pounds and your family becomes lord's family. So people become mad after money, somehow or other bring money. There was no other culture.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Valmiki was a murderer, or a dacoit, thief. So he was met by Nārada Muni, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Valmiki.

Jayatīrtha: And he was advised by Nārada Muni to please chant the holy name of the Lord and give up this thievery. So he wouldn't. So instead Nārada Muni said, "You chant mara." Mara means death. So he agreed.

Prabhupāda: Maramara, rāma.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed.

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So if we neglect the tree, there will be no fruits and flower. If we cut the tree, it will dry up and there will be no fruits and flowers. The fruits and flowers, this human body, the fruits and flowers mean self-realization. Bali Mahārāja analyzes the family. He says family means rogues and thieves. Whatever you want, they'll take away. The pickpocket takes from your pocket and he becomes a criminal, and when the wife takes thousand dollars from your pocket, you do not consider her to be criminal. You laugh, "Oh, you have taken the money?" "Yes, I've taken." The business is a pickpocket. But in one case we say "criminal," and one case we say "friend." The business is the same. Svajanākhya-dasyu. Actually thieves and rogues, but we have named them "relatives."

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: They are just like us, they are related to us. We are also thieves and rogues, and they are related to us.

Prabhupāda: This is family relation. Ṛktha-haraiḥ svajanākhya-dasyubhiḥ. Ṛktha-haraiḥ(?). Their only business is that you earn money with hard labor, and they'll take away. Their business is to take away. And they have got legal right. Dāya, dāya-bhāga. The son has got the right, legal right, to take whatever the father has accumulated. Nobody will say "No, you cannot take." No, he has the right, and so far wife is concerned, her business is to extend your condition, material condition.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, I have no objection. This is nice place.

Nava-yauvana: Because the leaders, they are thieves, they are taking the most, and then they...

Prabhupāda: They have become thieves because their guardians did not care for them. This is going on paramparā. The paramparā is that God's instructions should be distributed. Evaṁ paramparā. But there is no followers of God's instruction. Therefore the fool's, rascal's paramparā is there. The father is a rogue and the son is rogue. The grandson is a rogue. What is wrong? The paramparā is rogue.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: "I said." That is perfect instruction. God is all perfect, He is speaking. Now you follow that speaking, then you become perfect. And if you follow Satan, then you become a rogue, thief. The difficulty is they are not following the words of God. And religion means the words of God. It doesn't matter what kind of religion it is. If they actually follow the words of God, they become good. Just like in the Ten Commandments, the good instructions are there. So what is the wrong there? You follow, you become a good man. Similarly, in Koran also, there are good instruction. You follow, you become a good man. After all, religion means to try to understand God.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: Vikings were names of pirates. Viking means pirates. Pirate's a thief. Vikings, they used to be thieves. They named their spaceship Viking. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (break)...the idea going to the other planet? Colonization or what?

Pradyumna: One thing, they say, is security, that American and Russia are fighting. So it was a race to get to the moon because they think that from other planets they can control conditions on the earth. From another planet they can control weather or they can control different things.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You can go. It is your punishment. The material body... If one thinks in the prison house, "How one can live without prison house?" That is his misconception. Generally, one is expected to live outside the prison. But because that person is in the prison house since a long time, he cannot think that without prison house one can live; that is misconception. He has no idea of spiritual life, therefore he's thinking like that. Real business is how to get out of the prison. But he's thinking just the opposite way, that "If I do not remain in the prison, how can I eat?" A thief is thinking that "I'm living here very comfortably, without stealing. I'm getting food and shelter, and if I go outside I have to steal again."

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Merit is there. A thief, rascal and cheater, he has got good merit, but he's using it for bad purpose. They are duṣkṛtina. Why he has become so? Mūḍhāḥ. Because he does not know his interest, ass. The example is ass, mūḍhāḥ. The ass does not know his interest. He is loading tons of cloth for others' interest, for a morsel of grass. And the rascal does not know he can get grass anywhere. Why he is taking so much trouble? Muḍḥāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino, narādhamāḥ. And this human life was meant for understanding this, nara, but he has misused his life's asset. Narādhamāḥ, lowest of the mankind. How it happened? They are so educated. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is not bhakti, it is a common affair. You want to do some... Just like a thief. A thief steals very privately, why? Because Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't do it." But he does still. So Kṛṣṇa says always good things, but you don't care for it.

Mr. Sahani: But when, as said, that no leaf moves without the intentions of Kṛṣṇa...

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: And this is going on. Without God's sanction you cannot do anything, that's a fact. But what kind of sanction it is, that you have to understand. God is creator, God is giving sanction, everything is God. Otherwise how He is God? But He has to do. There is a story like that, that the thief is praying to God, "My Lord, give me the chance I can make some stealing in that house." And the householder also praying to God, "My Lord, please save my house, my things may not be stolen." Now God has to adjust, God has to please the thief and the householder.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So God has so intelligence, He can do that. He can give the sanction to the thief and He can give protection to the householder. That is God's position. Because both of them prayers, praying, "Give me the facility." And īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He is situated in everyone's heart and there are so many petitions, and He has to deal with them. That is God. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: But sometimes things happen people don't want to happen.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, they have no education about this law of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They're acting very independently. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascals, ahaṅkāra, vimūḍhātmā. They are rascals. They'll be punished. Just like a thief defies the laws of government, but they are punished.

Indian man: Today it's a matter of greatest coincidence. Yesterday got up early in the morning to go for a walk. I thought of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I met you today. Of course, I have no, myself and my wife are life members. We come sometimes, but morning chanting for me rather, it didn't happen. Today it happened and I met you today.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No. You can stop it. You are missing the chance because you are not serious about the end of life. You are not disgusted with this repetition of birth and death. That is foolishness. Just like a thief, a criminal. He is constantly put into the jail but he's not disgusted. He's committing again and again and again. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). This is going on. This is foolishness. He does not make any provision how to stop it. That is for want of knowledge. This is going on.

Indian man: In olden days...

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to know and protect yourself from the cheaters. So sometimes we have to become a bigger cheater. This is the world. Vañcaka-vañcī. Whole world is going on, my Guru Mahārāja used to say that one is cheater, another is cheated.

Hari-śauri: There's a saying in English... What is it? Set a thief to catch a thief. The purport is that you have to think like a thief, then you can catch him, you can know what he's doing.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Set a fish?

Hari-śauri: Set a thief to catch a thief.

Prabhupāda: Thief, oh yes. You can reply him... (break) Those who are actually serious to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are welcome.

Akṣayānanda: Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's serious to become free from this material world and go back to home, back to..., you welcome him. We don't make any discrimination. Ābāla-vṛddha-vanitā. Bāla means children.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore, I shall eat on the floor. (Bengali)

Hari-śauri: They give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean that all the money you get...

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let them come. And arrangement should be made when it is... If Vṛndāvana is too hot, at that time we can send them to Mahabalesvara, or if we get that Madras place, that is very cooling, Nilgiri hills. That will be good recreation for them. They should be kept quite comfortably and built up, their character, education. That is wanted. There is need of some good first-class men, ideal men. The world is full of rogues and thieves and bad character.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. Everyone is foolish now. You cannot distinguish who is thief and who is not thief. (Bengali) If you study everyone you will find everyone is rascal at the present moment.

Dr. Kneupper: But surely there are some who are...

Prabhupāda: Some must be there. There is no doubt about it. But they are so in minority. Who will hear about them? "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is rascal. If somebody is intelligent, who cares for him? Just like people laugh at me that I am talking of God. I am not only talking. I am writing so many books.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Actually it is happening. They are eating swiftly. "The cattle will die. Before they die, let us kill and eat." Actually it is happening. In Italy they killed because the problem is twenty thousand cows. This is going on. They do not care that killing is sinful because they don't care for God. This is going on. And sinful, sinful, sinful, everyone will be punished. The nature's law will act. Tag wande gao(?) (Bengali) There is a Bengali proverb, tag wande gao(?), that "One man wanted to take statistics, 'How many thieves are there in this village?' So when he began to take statistics, he saw everyone is thief. Then he said that 'What is the use of making statistics? This is village of thieves, that's all.' "

Morning Walk -- December 28, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So what they are going to answer to this? Will you accept everything? Ask them. So when the (indistinct), but exposes you, what answer you have got? Why you are silent? Silent means acceptance. Maunam (indistinct). If I say, "You are rascal, you are thief," and if you don't reply that means you accept it. Maunam (indistinct). If you do not protest, and if you do not say anything, so such a big criticism from (indistinct) and they are silent. Why do they not go to the court? Bluff (indistinct). That means he accepts. (indistinct) has been made here?

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He has expanded his āsakti from family to the whole nation. Expanded āsakti is not anāsakti. I'm thinking only of my family, and if I think of the whole nation, that does not mean anāsakti. That means āsakti expanded. I am a pickpocket. If I become a great plunderer, that does not mean I am not a thief. You cannot say pickpocket is thief and a great plunderer is a hero. The quality is there.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: There's that story about Alexander and the thief.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Alexander and the thief. The thief convinced him, "Alexander, what is the difference between you and me? I'm a small thief, you are a big thief, that's all."

Dr. Patel: I will drive the car for today.

Prabhupāda: All right. No, no, why you (indistinct). Young man... (break) ...the world... (break) (laughs) So similarly, if one is giving very important service, then even if there is some faulty thing, excuse.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Pompously. And, why not repay the debts of your father so that he may live very peacefully in his next life? A line in reply will much oblige us. Yours sincerely." You sign, "Secretary to His Divine...," as you... This man (laughs) over there was a pākā thief, and his sons also.

Jagadīśa: He was a pākā thief?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: And honest men don't like to associate with thieves and criminals.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is natural. We are not interested even with these daily newspapers. We are interested Bhagavad-gītā. We don't keep any news. We know the dogs are barking. That's all. But that does not mean we have to mix with the dogs.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: They are not bothering; they are educating. You take... A rascal, when he is advised... A thief when he's advised, "Kindly do not become a thief," he takes it botheration, but that is good advice.

Rāmeśvara: They say it is invasion of privacy.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Why privacy?

Rāmeśvara: They say every man has the right to think the way he wants.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I have go the right to think like that.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Why shall I give you chance? You are thieves. You are coming to kidnap. Why shall I give you chance? You say to them, as we are saying, that "You chant." They are chanting. You make brainwash. You ask them, "Don't chant." That is your business. But that you cannot do.

Rāmeśvara: "But by this chanting, they develop a kind of blind faith, and they stop thinking."

Prabhupāda: So, what is to you and to your father? Let them do that. Everyone has got freedom.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: But they are open to everyone. Why do you kidnap? Why do you steal like a thief?

Rāmeśvara: For his own good.

Prabhupāda: Then you are thief. Then thief can also say like that, "For my good I can steal."

Rāmeśvara: "It is the lesser of evils."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But God does not allow.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Terrorists. Communists.

Prabhupāda: Regular dacoits, thieves, rogues. "Pay me; otherwise kill you." And if you don't, kill you. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: That's the trend, then, everywhere, because unemployment is increasing.

Prabhupāda: And especially in your country it will be dangerous because these blacks, if they don't get employment, they will create havoc, these blacks. And they are not civilized. They want money, and if they don't get money, then they will create havoc.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Money they get. But they can live. But there is no culture. They want liquor. So these rascals do not know how we are making human civilization. They do not see it, that without any fixed income we are maintaining such a huge establishment all over the world, without any fixed income. How we are doing? We are not thieves, we are not rogues. We are all gentlemen.

Gargamuni: In India they say the CIA is funding you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They may say anything, but actually what we are?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: He'll simply become a thief.

Prabhupāda: Thieves, rogues and plunderers. That's all.

Hari-śauri: Detroit has the highest murder rate in the world, 'cause all the city population is black.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we could purchase that palace which costs six million dollars fifty years ago. And we have got for three hundred thousand. Why? Nobody was purchasing. Who will go to purchase there? I took it. "Yes it is..." I offered him... He was asking 350,000.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: How they would reveal? They are thieves and rogues. Their idea is: three thousand years ago there was no civilization. This is their poor idea.

Bhāgavata: (break) I was speaking with him. He's an Indian here in Bhuvaneśvara. He said Vyāsa could not have written the Vedas five thousand years ago because writing did not start till 2,500 years ago. I said, "What is your proof?" He said, "Because we can see in the caves the markings, and these things did not come till 2,500 years ago."

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: They're rascals. They cannot understand. But dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are sober, they can understand immediately. So there is no education to make people sober and intelligent. All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, that's all. Animals. What they will understand about spiritual life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa... After all, Kṛṣṇa is speaking. This very word is used. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Adhira. There are two classes of men, dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means sober, and adhīra means restless. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He gave us something... Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra. What is next word?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Muhammadan, they... Brain fag. And they are thieves. The captains said that they are all thieves, these Egyptians.

Hari-śauri: Arabs.

Prabhupāda: Arabs. Vast desert we saw, passing. Huge stack of sand. How they are living there?

Hari-śauri: Certainly not for a civilized man.

Prabhupāda: This stove is ours?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So who is going to do that? All these... All rogues and thieves, drunkards and fourth-class character, meat-eaters, they are the government. How you can expect good government for the benefit of the people? This is Kali-yuga. Unfortunately we have on the heads of government all men of the low-grade character. You... Your President?

Satsvarūpa: New President?

Prabhupāda: No, that Kennedy.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gurukṛpā: He was great by admitting that he was also a thief, but a big one.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Gurukṛpā: So if the scientists admit that actually the are not right, that makes them great.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. He must be standing on truth. That is greatness. Because "to err is human." Anyone commits mistake. There is no doubt about it. But after committing mistake, if I stick to that mistake, that is foolishness. When it is detected that it is mistake, you must admit. That is greatness.

Room Conversation -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't deal with him. He's a great thief.

Yugadharma: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I don't like him. He has made the karatālas so third-class. He is simply cheating. Don't deal with him.

Yugadharma: Laguna Beach temple... Agnideva dāsa, he's doing very nicely, very first-class. Everything is going... Temple life now is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there should be nicer because you are getting experience.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: He's a known thief, anyway.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man stole from his father, and it is clear now that he joined this movement only to get an American woman and to go to America. I think he never had much intention to worship Kṛṣṇa. He's eating meat, and his wife... Even when they came to America he ordered is wife, "Now you cook meat." He looks very different now. He looks like a rākṣasa.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Feature is rākṣasa.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And they'll be glad. They have got money and they are getting culture. I am trying for United Nations. That is real attempt of United Nation, not this United Nation; all rogues and thieves and cheaters, barking dogs. I am trying for the United Nations. Help me. This is real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). It is United Nation. So I began this movement very humbly, loitering on the street of New York. Now it has come to this stage. Let us cooperate together nicely.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I persistently took that place. Nobody encouraged me. He is all. (laughter) Nobody helped me. I hesitated little, that "If I am persistent to take it, they will not cooperate. It may be failure." So still I took it. And only fifty thousand and one lakh of rupees I gave this thief Nyer: "All right, take it. Come on. Whatever I have got, you take it." Still he thought, "Oh. I'll get money."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had already played the trick with one man.

Prabhupāda: Still, I took the risk that "I have no money. If he cheat me, that's all, but let me attempt."

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: Yāvad... (Sanskrit) The amount of material you need to fill your belly, that is your own. You can call only that much you own. If you think you own something more, you are a thief and you should be punished. That's what Bhāgavata says. This is the highest kind of socialism one can...

Prabhupāda: This is real socialism. God is the supreme father. Everyone has got right to live at the cost of the father's property. But you cannot take more than that. Then you are a thief. Take whatever you... And even by nature you will find. You just immediately throw one bag of rice, so many birds will come. And they will take one or two grain or something...

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: What is the meaning of good children?

Prabhupāda: Good children means not these rogues and thieves, but one who can understand God. That is good children.

Mr. Koshi: It is the parents' responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. These are stated. It is not secret matter. When the father goes to beget child, he has to perform ritualistic ceremonies in the presence of relative, brāhmaṇas. They will understand that "He is going now to beget a child." It is not a secret thing.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They can do, all their political divisions. These rascals, they can do. Anything. They have no principles, no morality, no standard of morality, nothing. Simply all rogues and thieves. It will more and more. All rogues and thieves will take part in politics. That is stated. Dasyu dharmeṇa. Just like dasyu, the burglar, the thieves, they have got organization how to get money. So they, the government, they'll be rogues and thieves. And whenever there is necessity of money, then tax. You work hard; they will tax. Organized burglars, organized guṇḍās. And Indira was doing that. Indira and company. Take the power and club(?) them and do whatever you like. She is a prostitute; her son is a guṇḍā.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, these are... Without this sampradāya, evaṁ paramparā, kick out on their face. All rogues and thieves.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These other...

Prabhupāda: I don't care for them. Immediately kick out. That is, sampradāya vihīna ye mantras te vi(pha)laḥ mataḥ. If he is not coming by this paramparā system, whatever he says, all nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about those who are coming in these other sampradāyas, like Rāmānuja sampradāya...

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The same, sense enjoyment, maithuna. All these rogues and thieves and bokā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Hoxar pleads for healthy land-man relationship. Mr. P. N. Hoxar, deputy chairman of the Planning Commission, yesterday pleaded for developing a healthy and rational land-man relationship as the foundation to build the socio-economic superstructure. Unless such relationship is developed through proper land reforms, it is useless to talk about science and technology in employment-oriented planning, he added. Eighty percent of the people live in the villages and till the land which they do not own.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And from the desert such brilliant light is coming that is illuminating at night the whole universe. And we have to believe it because they are spoken by scientists. You see? All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, they are leading. And our determination is to stop these rascals. That is our... It is not that "Let the rascals go on with their... Let us make our salvation." Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "No, no, no, I don't want. I don't want. If there is salvation, I must take them also." This is Vaiṣṇava. "I don't want such salvation for my personal..." This is Vaiṣṇava, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ prapadye (CC Madhya 6.254). Naturally a Vaiṣṇava will be unhappy. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha-māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). You know this verse?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They wanted to spread. Where are the Romans now? Carthagian, old history, Egyptian, Grecian, then, later on, Moguls or then British. So where are these groups? "Combined together, exploit others." That was, that means, a gang of rogues. Rogues and thieves, they... And by doing that, what they have actually done? The Romans, now their broken buildings are there. And people go to see the fun, how they used to enjoy. What is that called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Coliseum. That's the Greek Coliseum, they...

Prabhupāda: By keeping one lion and fighting him and it is enjoyed. What is this? What they have gained? In this way, the privileged... Is it not subject perception? What Napoleon has done? Or Hitler has done? Or Churchill has done?

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Rogues and thieves, what they know about Deity worship?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Neither they have any books.

Prabhupāda: Simply words, long, long.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Words. And promises.

Prabhupāda: Cheating. Cheating. Yes, everyone with common sense can understand that "What philosophy?" Here they see practically character, philosophy, devotion, faith, strict discipline. Any gentleman will appreciate.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: And just near there is moving door, shutting door. It has got nine pillars. If you just push one pillar, the entire structure shifts. And the pity is the archaeological department of government of India has taken no care about this. We had some good statue of Buddha and Mahāvīra and... Two, three were stolen away. We collected at our own institution. Then ultimately I wrote to government. I said, "Already some statue have been stolen away. You kindly left it wherever you like. We can't protect them from thieves." Just three months back. Then they took away another three statue, one of Viṣṇu, one of Buddha, another of Mahāvīra.

Prabhupāda: Stone?

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Trusteeship... Trustee... Who will be trustee? Who is trustworthy? All thieves and rogues? Who is trustworthy? Trustee is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1): Or He's the owner.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So He's the owner, and if you follow Kṛṣṇa, then you become trustee. You do not follow Kṛṣṇa; you are unworthy of trusteeship. You interpret in a different way Kṛṣṇa. Even sometimes you say that "Kṛṣṇa is fictitious." Do you not do? Don't you say like that?

Indian man (1): No, not...

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Just like here is a monkey. Is it not violence sometimes to drive away them? There will be attack, and you have to protect your... This world is not like that, that there is no... It is not Vaikuṇṭha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not..., you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They'll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. (Hindi) How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this example all over the world, this example, in America. Don't spoil money. Show by example. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more wanted. This is wanted. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Bring water from the sky. Keep always land moist and green. This is wanted. It is not my desire. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Here Vyāsadeva says, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). These rascals, they do not know. They do not consult śāstra, therefore manufacture. In Chandigarh so much land lying vacant. Thirty years already passed. And they are developing the cities. And another four hundred years will be required. The land is lying vacant. And they are making two governors, five commissioners, six ministers and..., drawing fat salary. This is government. Government means to draw fat salary at the expense of poor people. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Just like the rogues and thieves, they by force take money from us, these rascal, under some law, they'll take, this government.

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the statement in Bhāgavata, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām, they dismiss the case because apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Just like thieves: "Eh! What is government? What is government? Let us enjoy." That's not the fact. So we have to put all these questions before learned scholars and ask them to make a solution. (Bengali) Why zero?

Harikeśa: In other words, no matter what they come up with, what ideas they come up with, what knowledge they have, it's of no value because it doesn't...

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. He was also older than our father. But I have seen him in childhood, when I was ten, twelve years old. Very intelligent man, soft speaker. His... This Marconi's theory is his theory. The wireless... The thief has taken. They have stolen. And the British government gave credit to Marconi. He was very sad.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That everybody knows.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that change takes place according to your mentality. You are subtle thing, psychological. One man is thief. By change, he can become a saintly person. One man is saintly person; he becomes a thief. So that change, according to three qualities... Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). You cannot ascertain immediately because you are changing from sattva-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to tamo-guṇa. So how you can be ascertained? But there will be change. That is fixed. So we have to take this word change. So you cannot expect what changes. Are you going to be dog or hog or god? That will depend on your work.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This idea, that "My son should be B.A., M.A., Ph.D.," it is wrong idea. Why? What is there, Ph.D.'s? First of all one must earn. Self-preservation is the first law of... But not... The Marwaris used to do that in Calcutta. Many pakorā. No business—he was frying pakorā and selling. Why unemployment? This is disastrous, unemployment. As soon as there is unemployment, there are so many devils. They'll plan. And the first plan will come-wine and woman. So we want to save the society from this downfall. At least keep one ideal. And that is our mission. Otherwise there was no nece... But at the present moment they cannot take so much trouble. We are trying to give them as much as possible comfortable life, but become an ideal vidvān and bhaktimān. That is required. Otherwise it is animal society. Prime Minister's son is a debauch, rogue, thief.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swamiji, (Hindi) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brāhmaṇa, brahmacārī. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater. "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. (Hindi) Loafer class, śūdra, they want. (Hindi) Still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Cheating propensity is so strong. There is cheating propensity in different way. From Brahmā it goes. That is a bad qualification. That should be finished. But they are trying to increase it. I have got some bad qualification; my business is to finish it. So what is the use of increasing it? I am a thief. I have got some habit, to steal. So shall I try to stop it or increase it? Which one is human?

Śatadhanya: To stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they think this life is all in all, they think better somehow or other...

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If they are intelligent, they must. But they are all rascal, rogues, thieves and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa has given you all facilities, so why...? I'm sure He'll give this one also. I just got a notice from... The visa people gave me notice earlier that on such and such date I have to leave, and I have to think how to appeal. They're harassing everybody.

Prabhupāda: You can write that "Our permanent visa is being considered by the Central Government."

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Chief Minister, before catching him as thief, he has submitted that "I am not a thief." Before catching him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was thinking that. "I'm not stealing." Someone's in the house.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To keep his position clear, he has approached that "I am not thief." It is like that. Just like I'm going to catch you as thief. Before my catching you come and say, "No, no I am not a thief," then you are a thief. Do you understand the logic? I am going to capture you as a thief. Now, before my capturing, you approach me that "I am not a thief." That means you are a thief.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Please try to... Just try to understand. There is a story that a thief entered in a room, and the proprietor, he was in the other room. As soon as there was some sound, he inquired, "Who is there in that room?" The man said, "No, no, I am not stealing." You see? That means he is thief. So this voting board raised the question, "How they are getting visa?" In the Parliament also they are raising the same question. That means it is Communist manipulation, the Māyāpur affair. They put forward some Muhammadans because there are many Muhammadan Communist also.