Taking sannyasa (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"take sannyasa" |"take sannyasi" |"take that kind of sannyasa" |"take the sannyasa" |"take to Sannyas" |"take to sannyasa" |"take up sannyasa" |"take up the order of sannyasa" |"taken sannyasa" |"taken this sannyasi" |"takes ksetra-sannyasa" |"takes sannyasa" |"takes the sannyasa" |"takes to sannyasa" |"taking of sannyasa" |"taking sannyasa" |"taking the sannyasa" |"taking to Sannyas" |"took Sannyasam" |"took formal sannyasa" |"took sannyasa" |"took the sannyasa" |"took your Sannyas"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized. "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is... How He has become so big that He wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him. So He decided that "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me." Because in those days a sannyāsī was honored in the society very much. If a sannyāsī comes to your village or to a householder's house it was very... Still it is going on, although not so widely. But still 80% of the population in India, if they find out a sannyāsī they give all honor. So He decided that "Now I shall become a sannyāsī." So He happened to see Keśava Bhāratī, a sannyāsī of the Śaṅkara sampradāya, and He requested him that "You give Me sannyāsa." So He took sannyāsa from Keśava Bhāratī and He was assisted by Nityānanda, Murāri Gupta, and some other people. So this is His renunciation decision and acceptance of sannyāsa.

Hayagrīva: How does He, How does He accept sannyāsī? I mean how does He...?

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa, there is a ceremony. Just like we have got the initiation ceremony.

Hayagrīva: Did He have a spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: So He accepted spiritual... Not spiritual master, but a sannyāsa-guru. That is also master, but he's not spiritual master. But he's also considered as sannyāsa-guru, spiritual master who offers him sannyāsa. Just like myself, I took initiation from my Guru Maharaja, but I took sannyāsa from a Godbrother who is a sannyāsī. So my original guru is that spiritual master who initiated me, but he's also a śikṣā guru. Like that. Teacher. Then His renunciation of householder. He became sannyāsa. Now when He was, after taking sannyāsa, when He was going towards Vṛndāvana, He became always almost mad. So Nityānanda, He was with Him. When He saw that Lord Caitanya is in ecstasy, He misled Him just to... His plan was that "I shall take Lord Caitanya to the house of Advaita, and then I shall call His mother to see Him for the last time.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: If Caitanya goes away from this very point His mother will not be able to see Him." So out of sympathy He said, "Well, Śrīpāda Caitanya, this is not, this side is not Vṛndāvana. You go..." He just misdirected Him. So... And He sent one man to Advaita to receive Him that "He has taken sannyāsī, just try to make arrangement to receive Him. Then we shall meet." So when He came near the house of Advaita He saw that Advaita was waiting. So then He, I mean to say, came to His sense. "Oh, I am misled? I have come to Advaita's house? How is that Nityānanda? You showed Me this way Vṛndāvana." Then He said, "Oh, wherever You stay, that is Vṛndāvana." Now Advaita says, "All right, please come to my house." So he received Him and took Him there and sent news to His mother that "Your son has now taken sannyāsa. Now if you want to see Him for the last time please come and see." So in this way at Advaita's house He remained for some time. Say about a fortnight. And during that time, in the beginning, His mother came and His mother became so much sorry. That scene you have to describe very nicely. Mother seeing that her son has taken sannyāsa, no more He'll come to house. So (s)he was crying. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu fell on his(her) feet and begged, "My dear mother, yes. This body belongs to you. This body should have been engaged for your service. Unfortunately I've done a mistake. I have already taken sannyāsa. Please excuse Me." In this way. That scene described in the Dilip Kumar's house, that Caitanya is consulting mother, that is a false scene. The actual scene is that after accepting His sannyāsa, His mother came to see Him at Advaita's house. That is the...

Hayagrīva: Yes. Does she give Him her blessing finally?

Prabhupāda: No. Of course, mother's blessings are always there. But the scene was that mother was crying and He was falling on the feet and His mother was very sorry that He had very beautiful hair. Now it is all cut off. In this way, the scene is very pathetic. So in this way, after remaining at Advaita's house, His mother was asking Him through Advaita, "Let Him remain for some time." Then He consulted "Mother, now just you think over that I have taken sannyāsa. And if I remain in this way, leaving My own family, and if I leave another family, do you think this is very nice for a sannyāsī? So give Me permission to go away." Then mother agreed and other friends like Advaita and Śrīnivāsa requested His mother that "You give Him permission." Then (s)he said, "Yes, I have to give Him permission because He has already accept sannyāsa. If somebody blames Him, blasphemy, that is also not good. So my last request is that He may make His headquarter at Jagannātha Purī so that... Because people generally go to Jagannātha Purī, so I shall be able at least to know about Him, how He is faring there. That is my last request." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at once accepted. "My dear mother, I shall always stay in Jagannātha Purī, and sometimes I may come to Bengal also to take bath in the Ganges. So there will be meeting. Now let Me go." So in this way they departed and Caitanya Mahāprabhu for the last time saw His friends and mother.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: How old is He at this point?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu?

Hayagrīva: His age at this time?

Prabhupāda: Twenty-four years. It is just after His sannyāsa. He took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four. So He's visiting. After sannyāsa He's going to Jagannātha Purī. On the way He visited this Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha, Sākṣi-gopāla, and ultimately He came to Jagannātha temple. And in the Jagannātha temple was very crowded temple because it is always at least 500, 1,000 devotees are always seeing. It is significance of Jagannātha temple. So He entered and as soon as He saw Jagannātha He became overwhelmed with ecstasy and fell down unconscious. So all the people gathered, "He's a young sannyāsī. He has fallen down." So there was Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, the learned scholar of Purī. He saw, "Oh, this young sannyāsī, He's not ordinary." So he asked his men to carry Him to his place and that will be the scene. Then after His departure His followers will come, and they will search in the temple that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not there. Then one Gopīnātha Ācārya, I think the character is there? Gopīnātha Ācārya?

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha Miśra means Caitanya's father, was a relative, brother-in-law of Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. So he took Him affectionately and told Him, "My dear boy, You have taken sannyāsa at a very early age. So You should be very careful to study Vedānta-sūtra from me. Otherwise it will be very much difficult for You, young man." So He agreed, "Yes, you are just like My father. So you will kindly give Me instruction on Vedānta-sūtra." So there was discussion of the Vedānta-sūtra between Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That discussion is shortly mentioned in the introduction of my Srimad-Bhāgavatam. You will see.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: At Prayag. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Allahabad. And...

Hayagrīva: What is His age? I just want to keep checking on this, His age now. Is He twenty, in His twenties still?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He took sannyāsa at twenty-four. Say twenty-five, twenty-six years.

Hayagrīva: Couple years later. All right. Because time is an important factor. You have to keep track of the time in the play.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He toured, after His sannyāsa, He toured all over India for six years only. That means up to 30th year He toured all over India. And from 30th year to 48th year, 18 years, He constantly remained at Jagannātha Purī. He used to chant in the temple and meet His visitors.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam. In that way he was passing his days. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come and see him daily, and one day he died like this.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So at the age of 50, the husband and wife goes away from the home and they travel in all places of pilgrimage just to detach them from family affection. In this way, when the man is a little more advanced, he asks his wife that "You go and take care of the family and your sons, grown-up, they'll take care of you. Let me take sannyāsa." So he becomes alone and preaches the knowledge which he has acquired. This is Vedic civilization. Not that a man should remain in family life from birth to death. No. In Buddhism also there is compulsory regulative principle that a Buddhist must become a sannyāsī at least for ten years. Yes. Because the whole idea is how to attain spiritual perfection. So if one remains in his family life, encumbered, he cannot make any spiritual advancement. But if the family also, whole family is Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is helpful. But that is very rare. Because the husband may be Kṛṣṇa conscious, the wife may not be. But the culture was so nice that everyone remained Kṛṣṇa conscious.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He will play the Kazi 'cause he is very... You see? So... So now, in the introduction it says Lord Caitanya was realizing how this sectarianism amongst all the religions was very bad, and so He decided to do away with all material... Well, He could not be... He was not material, but He decided to take sannyāsa at this time.

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī... Sannyāsa reason was different. There was some misunderstanding between His students and... They were of same age. Because Nimāi Paṇḍita was very intelligent boy, so He was teaching other boys practically of the same age. So there was some misunderstanding and the students wanted to retaliate. He went to strike them with a stick, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And because they're of the same age they made a conference, "Oh, this Nimāi Paṇḍita has become very big man. He wants to strike us. Next time if He does so, then we shall also strike Him." Then He thought that "In this householder's position I cannot preach. I must take sannyāsa. Otherwise they will not respect Me." That is the system in India. A sannyāsī in this dress, whatever rascal he may be, he is offered immediately all respect. That is the system in India. So therefore He took sannyāsa early age, 24 years, 24 years of age.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can show His mother and His wife crying because He is taking sannyāsa. They see Him in His...

Prabhupāda: No, no. He took sannyāsa by previous arrangement. One day He went away from home, accompanied by Murāri and Lord Nityānanda, and went to Katwa. There was one Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Keśava Bhāratī, and He took sannyāsa from him. And then He was, in emotion He was going to Vṛndāvana, but He was misled by Nityānanda, and He was brought to the home of Advaita, and Advaita arranged to bring His mother to see Him for the last.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Yoko Ono: I mean the fact that we are doing songwriting and all that. It's a waste of time, isn't it? Without Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, not waste of time. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was chanting simply. Even He was criticized by great sannyāsīs that "You have taken sannyāsa. You do not read Vedānta. You are simply chanting and dancing." He was criticized. But the thing is, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu met such stalwart scholars, He was not lagging behind. Similarly, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. There is no doubt about it. But if somebody wants to understand this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra through philosophy, through study, through Vedānta, we are not lacking. We have got books. It is not that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is insufficient, therefore we are recommending books. No. Not like that. Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. But... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was chanting, but when there was a Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, when there was a Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, oh, He was ready to argue with him with Vedānta. So we should not be dumb. If somebody comes to argue with Vedānta philosophy, then we must be prepared. When we are preaching, there will be so many people, different types of people will come. Otherwise Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is sufficient. Sufficient. It does not require any education, any reading, anything. Simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and you get the highest perfection. That's a fact.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Guest (5): Perhaps they are the people, the older followers of...

Prabhupāda: Not always these people. Not all. (Hindi) We have created this problem. (Hindi) (break) You'll get your bread, bara, and somebody will fill up your belly. (Hindi) It is not possible. (Hindi)

nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām

eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān

(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)

These are Vedic injunctions. You know all this; then why don't you believe in this? (break) (Hindi) So it is coming? (Hindi) (break) We must have faith. Adau śraddhā (Hindi) You should be prepared even there is difficulty. Just like when I took sannyāsa I gave up my family life. In the beginning there was so much difficulty. I was living alone. But I never cared for it. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: No, they don't make any spiritual advancement. They come down. Don't you see this impersonalist, Vivekananda? He took sannyāsa; he came to hospital-making, came back. They are not advancing. They are coming back, falling down. While they have no engagement in devotional service, they say, "Oh, why you are finding God anywhere? Here is God, daridra-nārāyaṇa, these poor men." That's it. That is not advancement. They are coming down. Now, they come down and they defame Nārāyaṇa, that "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." He has found Nārāyaṇa is daridra.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: The sannyāsīs are meant for preaching and the GBC's are meant for managing. In this way do it. Now you give me relief—I go on writing books, that's all. So Viṣṇujana Mahārāja, your preaching is going on nice?

Viṣṇujana: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī should be always preaching. Parivrājakācārya. Four stages of sannyāsa: kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājaka, and paramahaṁsa. In the beginning... Because according to Vedic civilization everyone has to take sannyāsa at a certain age. So as a matter of routine if he takes sannyāsa... Just like this old man I was asking that "Now you have children grown up, why don't you take sannyāsa?" But he is hesitating. Nobody likes, because sannyāsa life is difficult. So first there is kuṭīcaka means he gives up the connection of the family life, takes sannyāsa officially, but he is not accustomed to maintain himself independently; therefore, he goes out of the village and makes a cottage and lives there. And the foodstuff, the home supply, that is called kuṭīca. Kuṭī means cottage. Then when he is little practiced, then he says family members that "Don't bring foodstuffs. I shall go to every village man and ask something for my food. I shall depend on them, not on you." That is called bahūdaka.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: And those who are sannyāsī, brahmacārī, they have no sex life, there is no question of sex life. Sex life is prohibited. But it is a concession for them who cannot live without sex life. That is married life. Otherwise, sex life is not very important thing. Just like there are brahmacārīs, sannyāsīs, they have no sex life. Therefore, this sannyāsa, to go out of home by force, that means to avoid sex life, sannyāsa. You see? I think those who have got children, they should take sannyāsa now and preach. That is my idea. Not (indistinct) idea, because all the great sages, they waited if they are married. Just like Kapila Muni..., Kardama, Kardama Muni. Kardama Muni, he was a great yogi. So he was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa sent him good wife, Devahūti, a king's daughter. So he thought, "I was thinking of marrying, so Kṛṣṇa has sent. All right, let me marry." But he made a condition to her father that "I can accept your daughter as my wife so long she has no children. As soon as she has children, I shall go away." So the father agreed, "Whatever you like, you can do. I'm just placing my wife in your custody." So the sannyāsī..., when there is a child of the wife, I think one can accept sannyāsa.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Viṣṇujana: Just two.

Prabhupāda: Two, that's all right. You have to do another eight. (laughter) Yes. That's nice. (break)

Devotee (1): So do you want to give (indistinct) authorization to take sannyāsa as soon as possible?

Prabhupāda: That I tell you, not immediately. But our main business is preaching. Either do it as a gṛhastha or as sannyāsī, it does not matter. This is only formality. The real work is preaching. Just like Rāmānanda Rāya was a gṛhastha and Lord Caitanya was a sannyāsī, but He was taking lesson from Rāmānanda Rāya. This is Caitanya-līlā. He is a sannyāsī and He is God Himself, He is taking lesson from a grhastha who is His disciple. So the real thing is preaching must go on sincerely. This gṛhastha, vānaprastha, these are material regulative principles. Real life is Kṛṣṇa's service. That we have to do, that's all.

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Then there is no... (break) ...and if we conquer our eating then we can conquer our sleeping also. Nidrāhāra vihārakādi vijitau **. (break) Don't make fuss. If you are serious, then it is all right. Otherwise, you are young men. If you again give up sannyāsa or you try to marry, it will be scandalous for our society. Don't do that. If you are steady... But so far report is you are not very steady. Do you admit this or not?

Kulaśekhara: Yes. Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then how you can take sannyāsa? It is a very great responsibility. (break) There is no need of taking sannyāsa. If you are sincere in preaching you can do in this dress. Where is the harm? Simply by changing, taking a rod, you'll not become God immediately. You have to work, steadily. What is there in sannyāsa? Do you mean to say taking a rod one becomes sannyāsa? Sannyāsa means you must be sacrificing everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). Sa sannyāsī, he's sannyāsī. Anāśritaḥ karma phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti. You went to Israel but again came back. Why? What was the difficulty?

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1971, London:

Haṁsadūta: Yes. They know English. This city is especially English. They, practically everyone knows English. Very, very, many people from America are always there. Especially the younger people, they all know English. It's a center for...

Pradyumna: It's the best German university. The most famous German university is there.

Haṁsadūta: And Śivānanda. Shall Śivānanda come here to see you? He wants to know about his taking sannyāsa. He can either go to Paris and meet you there or he can come here.

Prabhupāda: He cannot go to Paris?

Haṁsadūta: He can go to Paris and meet you there. The Hamburg devotees will meet you in Paris. They will not come to the festival because it's very complicated for us to come here and expensive. So they will... And Śivānanda can also go to Paris or he can come here.

Prabhupāda: If it is possible, come here, join this festival.

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. "No. We have undergone so much austerities, penances. Whole life I remain brahmacārī, then I took sannyāsa. I have followed the rules and regulations very strictly, and still I am rascal?" Yes, you are rascal. (aside:) Don't make sound. Silently. "Still I am rascal?" Yes. You are rascal. "Why?" Āruhya kṛcchreṇa: because the symptoms are there that you are a rascal.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: This is Vaiṣṇava.

Guest: Are there three sticks in it?

Madhudviṣa: No, there are three pieces-one, two, three. There is four sticks wrapped here.

Guest: You have taken sannyāsa?

Madhudviṣa: Our Guru Maha..., Prabhupāda has given me sannyāsa.

Guest: Sannyāsa.

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Guest: Then only you can hold it?

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Sit down, sit down.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Guest: Very difficult doctrine of detachment. The Gītā Ācārya says sannyāsa is difficult, and you are likely to become a hypocrite if you, if you...

Prabhupāda: Mithyācāraḥ sa ucyate.

Guest: ...if you prematurely take sannyāsa. Therefore try and compromise the principles of sannyāsa, that is to say of renunciation with worldly action, and, I mean, performance of duty, by performing the duties without caring for the results. That is the renunciation He has preached, I have understood.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Girirāja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gītā Ācārya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate.

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is, when there is detachment, there must be another attachment.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are so many marriages. He is married. Marriage is no barrier. I told you, there are four different orders of social life: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So after brahmacārī, one can marry. But that is not obligatory. He may remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī for whole life. But a brahmacārī can marry. So after marriage there is vānaprastha life. Means little aloof from family. Live—husband and wife—separately. That time there is no sex life. And then, when he's fully renounced, detached from the family life, he takes sannyāsa.

Bob: Does somebody forget his wife completely then?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Forgetting is not very difficult if you try to forget. That's all. Out of sight, out of mind. (laughter) Just like I have got my wife, children, my grandchildren, everything. But out of sight, out of mind. That's all. Therefore vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Everything is nicely arranged by the Vedic system. (break)

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Suppose we have this nice foodstuff this mother has brought. So those who are not following austerities, they cannot expect. But because we are following austerity, Kṛṣṇa sends us nice thing. So we are not loser. When you become Kṛṣṇized, then you'll get more comfort than at the present moment. That's a fact. I am living alone for the last twenty years, but I have no difficulty. When, before taking sannyāsa, I was living in Delhi, these boys were taking care of me. Yes. So I had no difficulty, although I was living alone.

Devotee: If you don't accept a spiritual discipline, then nature forces so many...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

Māyā is imposing so many difficulties, but as soon as you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, no more imposition.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Martin: This chanting process is directed to everyone, or just those who...

Prabhupāda: No, everyone. By chanting he'll come to this point. When his heart will be cleansed, then he will come to this point to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. We initiate a person, not that he is already on that standard, but we are educating him by the process, how to come to that standard.

Devotee: Beginning when one takes sannyāsa?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: Beginning when one takes sannyāsa initiation? It doesn't necessarily mean he's a controller of senses, is that right? Gradually he may rise up to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. A sannyāsī is already qualified. Then (indistinct). The first beginning is chanting. If he follows the regulative principles and chants sixteen rounds, that is his qualification. And by that process, he'll come to the point of full surrender. Then we give him the second initiation. And when he's actually engaged in the service of the Lord heart and soul, then we give him sannyāsa.

Interview -- July 20, 1972, Paris:

Devotee: ...how a man such as yourself, in such a high position and such hierarchy was able to leave all this in order to bring this message to others?

Prabhupāda: No. It's not to be... Life is divided into four parts: brahmacārī, student, gṛhastha, householder, vānaprastha, retired life and sannyāsa. Everyone should follow this principle. First of all, as brahmacārī student he should learn sufficiently what is the value of life. Then, when he's a householder, he should live properly with husband, wife and children-properly. Then, after retired life, giving the responsibility of household life to grown-up children, he should take lessons from saintly persons. (indistinct) Then at the end he should take sannyāsa. Whatever knowledge he has gathered he must distribute by traveling from one place to another. This is Vedic civilization. Everyone should come out. Not that they should remain at home and drink and sleep for the whole life. This is Vedic civilization.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They are not very happy that you are in this movement, not in the family, naturally. They think, "Our lost child." (laughter) They cannot appreciate that "My child is lost for better purposes." That is the case.

Revatīnandana: Actually, I wanted to ask you about something like that. When I took sannyāsa in Calcutta, some time afterwards, I used to correspond with my parents. So I sent them a letter explaining what was sannyāsa, and that I had taken sannyāsa, and that I didn't want to hear so much more about nieces, nephews, things like that that I have in that family. I said "If you want to talk, now we have to talk about Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So I didn't hear anything from them for about six months. But just the other day I received a letter...

Prabhupāda: Then don't. Now you have taken sannyāsa, you don't.

Revatīnandana: I shouldn't do it at all.

Prabhupāda: No.

Revatīnandana: But she's quite intelligent. She's asking...

Prabhupāda: Your mother?

Revatīnandana: Yeah. ...all about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. She has the Gītā.

Prabhupāda: Your mother, your mother must be intelligent because you are intelligent. Your mother must be intelligent. Without mother being intelligent, no intelligent son comes out. A son inherits the quality of mother, and the daughter inherits the quality of father. This is natural.

Interview with the New York Times -- September 2, 1972, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No intoxication, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. How can these boys, who have been trained to practice these four items from the beginning of their lives, give them all up? Everything is possible, provided we make the choice. Therefore according to Vedic civilization in the beginning of life you become a brahmacārī. Then you are allowed to marry and become a householder, and after a number of years you remain a husband but abandon sexuality, and that is called vānaprastha. Finally you take sannyāsa and leave your family to practice and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic civilization. Everything is provided to enlighten the people in general. All the knowledge is there, and the method is there; we simply have to take advantage of it. If we do not, how can we expect a peaceful and happy world? If society creates animals, then how can it expect peace and prosperity? In spite of so many big universities and all educational facilities, this society is producing hippies and frustration amongst the youth because we are spirit soul and cannot become happy simply by amassing material comforts. We must have spiritual life. If a fish is taken out of water, it cannot be made happy with all the comforts of land. To be happy, a fish must have all the freedom of water. Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, and we cannot become happy in matter. We require spiritual food, spiritual atmosphere.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles. He's very intelligent boy. He knows everything. He knows accounts, He knows how to construct building. He knows how to manage. He knows how to publish. Everything.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Versatile.

Prabhupāda: Versatile, yes. And he's not very old. And he wants to take sannyāsa also. He's a gṛhastha, he has got a child. And: "Just wait. We shall arrange for your... You are already sannyāsī." He lives apart from his wife. So he's very nice boy.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So I do not have here one copy, regularly.

Prabhupāda: Oh, why, why not Back to Godhead?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Last time I requested, but they have forgotten.

Prabhupāda: It is...

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but because I am old man, it is little troublesome for me. Otherwise, I like travelling.

Reporter (2): What, what were you doing, what did you do before this, before 1966?

Prabhupāda: I was retired from my family life. I was living in a holy place called Vṛndāvana. I retired from my family life in 1954. Then, in 1959, I took sannyāsa order. This is called renounced order of life. No family connection .

Reporter (2): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: And then I started for American in 1965. And then my movement was started from U.S.A in 1966.

Reporter (2): From the U.S.A. Could you tell me why you think the Western world has espoused your sort of movement now, has been keen on looking to the East for spiritual...

Prabhupāda: Do they, actually?

Reporter (2): Why is that, do you think?

Prabhupāda: That he can explain. He's Western people.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: By the result, not theoretical.

Śyāmasundara: No. So we were showing pictures and books.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Every sane man should appreciate. When European and American young men, who are after material sense gratification, they're taking sannyāsa, it is not joke. They should appreciate it. In an age where material sense enjoyment is very prominent, and they give up everything for Kṛṣṇa, and they're going far away from their comfortable position... Just like Brahmānanda has gone to Africa. So what for? Unless they appreciate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how they take up this job? This is practical. There is no question of theoretical.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was my case also. Since my Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You do this." But I thought that "Let me become first of all rich man. Then I shall do," so He... Every business was...

Śyāmasundara: Maybe that is my case also.

Prabhupāda: That is special favor. In the beginning I was thinking, "Now my godbrothers, they have taken sannyāsa. They are begging from door to door. Why shall I beg? Let me earn money and start Kṛṣṇa consciousness." But that never happened. So I had to... I was obliged to take the dress of my godbrothers and preach, instead of earning money. Yes. Some astrologer told me that I should have been a man like a Birla. And I got all those chances in the chemical line, to become... Now I am bigger than Birla. That's all right. But even in business field, there were signs that in money things... I got so many good chances. But everything... Dr. Karttika Candra Bose he appreciated my activities, "Very intelligent boy." He certified to my father-in-law. This is the way of becoming rich man.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But my intention was to start this movement.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: I was simply planning in different way. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's favor. I never deviated from this plan. Since I heard it from my Guru Mahārāja, I've simply planning how to do it successfully. But I thought at that time, that "I'll be able to do it if I get some money. Let me do some business for the time." That I was thinking. But Kṛṣṇa said, "Even if you are pauper, you try; you'll get everything." But I thought, "Without money, how this can be done?" That was difference of opinion with Kṛṣṇa, argument. And I was dreaming also, Guru Mahārāja, asking me, "Come on." So I was going. So I was, "Oh, I have to go? I have to take sannyāsa?"

Śyāmasundara: You, you dreaming?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru Mahārāja said, "Come, come with me." I was going. But that... Many things happened before this. Yes. And at last it became, in America.

Śyāmasundara: Did you tell everyone you were leaving, or you simply disappeared?

Prabhupāda: No, I never said. Oh, why shall I? I lost all friends, money, everything.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So actually, that is the fact, and I was going to tell about Śrīdhara Swami. Śrīdhara Swami was a great devotee, so he was thinking of taking sannyāsa. So he was contemplating that "I shall now leave my home and take sannyāsa." So in the meantime, his wife became pregnant. Then he thought that "I was thinking like that. Anyway, this has happened, and if I take sannyāsa now, what people will say, that 'His wife is pregnant and he has taken sannyāsa, he has gone out of home.' " So he waited, the child was born, and the mother died. (laughing) Then he thought, "I do not know what Kṛṣṇa desires. Who will take care of this child, motherless child?" So that he was thinking very deeply. One lizard dropped before him, one small child lizard. Mother gave birth to a child this morning, and the small lizard was staying, and immediately small ant came before the mouth of that small lizard, and he ate. Then Śrīdhara Swami thought, "The every arrangement is there. Why I am thinking of this or that?" Immediately went away. Actually, that is the position. The actual care is taken by Kṛṣṇa, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is taking care of everyone.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...it will be constituted, that. Their business will be to exploit the poor citizens. And they will be embarrassed and harassed so much: by one side, no sufficient rain, and therefore scarcity of food, and the other side, taxation by the government. In this way, the people will be so much harassed that they'll give up their home and go to the forest. Very piti... Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll not be saved. The varṇāśrama college has to be established immediately. Everywhere, wherever we have got our center, a varṇāśrama college should be established to train four divisions: one class, brāhmaṇa; one class, kṣatriya; one class, vaiśya; and one class, śūdra. But everyone will be elevated to the spiritual platform by the spiritual activities which we have prescribed. There is no inconvenience, even for the śūdras.

Passerby: Jayo!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhagavān: Are śūdras supposed to take sannyāsa also?

Prabhupāda: No, why?

Bhagavān: Śūdras...

Prabhupāda: Those who are śūdras, they should not be allowed to take sannyāsa. Only those who are qualified brāhmaṇas, they'll be allowed to take sannyāsa.

Bhagavān: Kṣatriyas used to take sannyāsa too?

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriyas... Some of them. Not all.

Guru dāsa: Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru dāsa: Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: They did not take sannyāsa, but they left home. There is no need of accepting sannyāsa. One has to perform the devotional activities. That is real thing. Simply by changing dress, one does not improve. Unless he takes to the, seriously, principles of devotional service. But in the Kali-yuga, they'll think, "Because I have changed my dress, I have become a big sannyāsī." You see? "Because I have got a sacred thread, now I am a brāhmaṇa." No. There must be regular training. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: In a varṇāśrama society, are most of the citizens śūdras?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jagadīśa: Are the majority of citizens śūdras? In a varṇāśrama society?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The number of śūdras are always bigger. Just like in University education. The, the number of graduates and post-graduates, they're less. Others are big, number bigger.

Bhagavān: The whole idea is that at the end of everyone's life, everyone is required to leave home, perform devotional activities, but not necessarily take sannyāsa.

Prabhupāda: Devotional activities, either he leaves from home or not leaves, that doesn't matter. It must continue from the very beginning. For the management of affairs, we require to divide. Because there are different classes of brain, so those who have very intellectual brain, they should become brāhmaṇas. Those who are fit for management and protection, they should be trained as kṣatriya. And those who are fit for producing food, taking care of the cows, they should be trained as vaiśya. And the balance, they're all śūdras. This is the division. You... Everywhere you'll find this division, natural. One class of men, very intelligent. One class of men, very strong, good brain for management, administration. (aside) Jaya. One class of men, fit for tilling the ground, field, and produce food, take care of the cows. And the balance, śūdra. That's all. So in our society, this division should be there. The most intelligent class of men, they should be engaged in preaching, reading books and instructing, taking care of Deity worship, temple, and another class should be strong managers, that things are going on nicely. Everyone is engaged, not that eating and sleeping. Everyone must be engaged, employed.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Tamāla-Kṛṣṇa: In our centers we are awarding brāhmaṇa initiation, second initiation...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Initiation should go on. Even... You do not understand what I have said, that that is for Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava and Viṣṇu... Just like Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu, He's not human being, but He was acting like human being, similarly, Vaiṣṇava is transcendental. But for proper management of the material world, one should be acting like brāhmaṇa, one should be acting like kṣatriya. That is required. Just like actually we are doing so. Some of you are preaching, and some of you are cleansing the temple. It does not mean that a sannyāsī who is preaching, he is better than that man who is cleansing. The... Their position as Vaiṣṇava is the same. But for the management, one is cleansing, one is seeing the construction, one is going to preach, like that. That should be there. It is not that "Because I have taken sannyāsa, therefore I cannot any more do anything." If need be, he has to act as kṣatriya. Or a śūdra. It doesn't matter.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: (break) ...sign of a great devotee is also to be always absorbed in...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in their sampradāya it is a custom, as soon as he takes sannyāsa, he becomes Nārāyaṇa. "Namo nārāyaṇa." (laughs) That is an allurement. So this... Even one says that he is follower of Śaṅkarācārya, but there is no meaning in it. Unless one is a sannyāsī, he cannot say that he is follower of Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: He was there.

Prabhupāda: He was there?

Mahāṁsa: Oh, yes, his whole family was there. Mr. Pulla Reddy was there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Pulla Reddy, I have seen. (break) He is so much convinced in with our philosophy in Bombay, he is going to take sannyāsa.

Mahāṁsa: Oh, in Hare Kṛṣṇa Land?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Although he is officially Shaivite, but he says that "I am so much convinced with your speech."

Pañcadraviḍa: Who is that person, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I do not remember the name.

Nitāi: He lives in that same building?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Downstairs.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Best thing is that "Why your president, he did not write a single Hindi book? He has got so many. He is a famous philosopher. Indian religion, Indian philosophy, and Bhagavad-gītā. Then... He has written so many books but not a single in Hindi."

Indian man (1): Dr. Radhakrishnan belongs to South India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is from Madras.

Indian man (1): Yes, he doesn't know.

Prabhupāda: No, he does not know. Sometimes, before my taking sannyāsa, sometimes I used to see him. So once upon a time he asked me, "Swamiji, you are simply writing in English?" So I asked him, "What you are doing?" So he began to laugh. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Indian man (1): Dr. Radhakrishnan belongs to South India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is from Madras.

Indian man (1): Yes, he doesn't know.

Prabhupāda: No, he does not know. Sometimes, before my taking sannyāsa, sometimes I used to see him. So once upon a time he asked me, "Swamiji, you are simply writing in English?" So I asked him, "What you are doing?" So he began to laugh. (end)

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 26, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Just like these Romans. They have left. They constructed so big, big building just to enjoy, but they had to leave it by nature's force and accept another body. That they do not know. They are satisfied, "Never mind, I accept the next life a dog's body. Now let me enjoy this, say, twenty-five years or fifty years, that's all." This is their philosophy. No future. "Trust no future, however pleasant." In India, those who are interested in spiritual life, they take sannyāsa. Everybody sannyāsa, bābājī. Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up his service, everything, and became no possessions voluntarily. Big, big kings, Bharata Mahārāja... To practice that "I have no more interest in anything material." (break) ...introduction of my Guru Mahārāja that sannyāsīs and preachers may use big, big buildings, motorcars and..., just to give the information to the western world. Because they, if you ask them, that "You become a mendicant, possessionless," still, they are not very much interested. Because they see our dress, our living condition is not very equal to their standard, they do not like. Is it not? Yes. So just to give these Westerners facilities at least to understand this philosophy, this method was accepted by Guru Mahārāja, to live in nice building, to have cars, to use everything for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, nobody would take.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Just like some of our students, immediately married and again, "Give me sannyāsa." What is this? Irresponsible, that's all. Irresponsibility. So these things are not required at all. These things are not required. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. After marrying they see it is very great responsibility. "Now let me take sannyāsa." That's all. Why you marry? Because he finds that after marriage there are so many difficulties. So irresponsible man. So after there is difficulties; that's a fact. So why should you go to the difficulty? Therefore the conclusion is the married life is not required. But if you cannot tolerate, all right, get this concession, live very gentlemanly. This is marriage. Otherwise for higher sense, higher elevation... High elevation, of course, one who is actually on the higher elevation, he is married or not married, it doesn't matter. But on the whole, the sex life is not necessary.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: Just like the aeroplane. When the one plane is in danger, no other plane come and help it. Even if you see that the other plane is flying a few yards and if it is in fire, you cannot help. There is one nice story that one hunter was hunting birds and he spread his network. So when the children of the parent birds, they become victimized by the network. So when the parents came, they saw, "Oh, my children have been caught up by the net of the hunter." So mother became very overwhelmed. She went to rescue them and she also become victimized. Then the father was intelligent, he saw that "My children, my wife, they all have been victimized, and if I foolishly go to save them, then I will be also victimized. Let me go this way." Take sannyāsa and go. No responsibility. It is not possible when everyone is captured by the laws of nature. How you can help and what is your responsibility? So this is called māyā. The children are thinking that "My father and mother will give me protection," and the father and mother is thinking that "There is my responsibility." This is called māyā. With this false responsibility, they are packed up in a home. But when death comes, nobody can help. Nobody. This is happening every day, every moment, and still we are falsely thinking I am responsible. So what is the value of your responsibility? If you cannot give protection, then what is the value of your responsibility? There is no responsibility. The only responsibility is that I have got this human form of life. Even in this life I do not realize God, then I remain cats and dogs, that's all. This is the only responsibility. If you miss this opportunity, then I do not know what I am going to become in my next life.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Devotees -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Just like Arjuna. Arjuna officially, he did not take sannyāsa. He was a gṛhastha, soldier. But when he took it very seriously, karyam—"Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. Never mind I have to kill my relatives. I must do it"—that is sannyāsa. First of all he argued with Kṛṣṇa that "This kind of fighting is not good, family killing...," and so on, so on, so on. He argued. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when he understood that "It is my duty. Kṛṣṇa wants me to do it." Karyam. So in spite of his becoming a householder, a soldier, he's a sannyāsī. He took it-karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty." That is real sannyāsa. "Kṛṣṇa wants that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be spread. So this is my karyam. This is my duty. And the direction is my spiritual master. So I must do it." This is sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa, sannyāsa mentality. But there is formality. That should... That may be accepted.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu have a daṇḍī or a tridaṇḍī?

Prabhupāda: Daṇḍī.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ekadaṇḍī.

Prabhupāda: He took sannyāsa from Māyāvādī.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did Nityānanda Prabhu break His daṇḍa?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not require any.

Acyutānanda: After taking sannyāsa, though, He had śikha and Tulasī mālā? No.

Prabhupāda: He was Māyāvādī. (chuckles) (laughter)

Acyutānanda: Someone wrote that only Caitanya Mahāprabhu can say ahaṁ brahmāsmi. He is the only Māyāvādī who can actually say aham brahmāsmi, because He is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: He is brahmāsmi, no. He is parabrahmāsmi. Kṛṣṇa-caitanya-nāmine. (end)

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee: So they'll be able to take care of the situation there by themselves?

Prabhupāda: Who?

Devotee: In Hong Kong?

Prabhupāda: They are taking. Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja is there. He is a sannyāsī. That is all right. You don't change your mind. You are already trained up about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so you try to become an ideal householder in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because we are not rejecting householder. We are accepting everyone. Gṛhe vā thāke hā gaurāṅga bole ḍāke. Anyone, either he remains as a sannyāsī in the forest or he remains a gṛhastha at home, if he is cultivating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy, then he is all right. That is the verdict. So now you are living as gṛhastha. Live as an ideal gṛhastha, don't change your mind. Be fixed up. They are all gṛhasthas, all these Pañca-tattva, you see? Advaita Prabhu was a gṛhastha. He did not take sannyāsa. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also was married. Nityānanda Prabhu was gṛhastha. They were all gṛhasthas, but ideal gṛhastha. So you become an ideal gṛhastha. That also wanted.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: A student remains brahmacārī up to twenty-five years, and if we wants to take this sex license-household life means sex life—so he can get the license for twenty-five years more. So at the age of fifty years, fiftieth year, he gives up voluntarily. He keeps his wife with him just to assist him to advance in spiritual life, and they go from one holy place to another. And then when they are practiced, then the woman is sent to his elderly sons to take care and the man takes sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... And the sannyāsa is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, not the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas because they are not very much advanced. But the brāhmaṇa is advanced from the very beginning. Therefore sannyāsa is for the brāhmaṇa. The system that without being a brāhmaṇa nobody can take sannyāsa. So I am criticized by others in India that I am giving sannyāsa to them. Of course, according to the principle, they are not fit for sannyāsa, but because Caitanya Mahāprabhu also took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years... Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years. He lived only for thirty-two years, Caitanya Mahāprabhu lived for forty-eight years. So for ordinary man, sannyāsa is difficult. But for preaching work, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's footprints we are trying to follow.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: He's been also to Māyāpur, I think, and Vṛndāvana, and he's associated with you before. So he's had a lot of good association.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he saw Tīrtha Mahārāja, Bon Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he met them.

Bahulāśva: He told me that if he was not so entangled with family life, he would want to take sannyāsa.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) He is family man?

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, so what is the anxiety? We can take charge of their family. How old he is?

Bahulāśva: He's about sixty-five. He's just getting ready to retire. He's retiring this year.

Prabhupāda: So retire.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Kuruśreṣṭha: Once one performs devotional service then he can't get away from Kṛṣṇa. Can he still get away? It seems like...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that option is always, because you are independent.

Kuruśreṣṭha: I see with myself that if I try to get away a little bit, He beats me so much that I have to come back.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is special favor.

Yadubara: So Kṛṣṇa is directly controlling that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When He sees, "That fool wants Me, at the same time, material world. So take his material possession, everything, so that he will want only Me, that's all." Actually, it was done to me. (laughs) I have got practical experience. I did not want to take sannyāsa. I thought that I shall do business. And Kṛṣṇa forced me to take sannyāsa and all, everything, dismantled.

Devotee (4): Kṛṣṇa's mercy on us.

Yadubara: But your business was successful...

Prabhupāda: I was thinking of becoming Birla, but I am now more than Birla. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: The vānaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified places. In India there are so many places. So in this way, there is no sex in the vānaprastha. Simply the wife remains as assistant. And she also practices austerities. And then the husband, when he is fully mature, he sends wife back to his elderly children to take care of her and he takes sannyāsa. So this is spiritual advancement, and in sannyāsa life, one is absolutely dedicated for the service of God. So in this way his life becomes perfect. And according to his perfection, he gets next birth in higher planetary system. In the upper planets, planetary system, there is Svargaloka up to the third-class man. And then, above that, there are Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapaloka, Satyaloka, Brahmaloka. And beyond that, there is spiritual world. So in this way life becomes perfect. If you want, you can go to the spiritual world.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Mrs. Wax: She must become dependent on her son because her husband would ideally become a sannyāsī. Is that...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You will find that Kapiladeva is instructing mother. That picture you can show her. Third Canto? You see the picture in the cover? The first-class son is instructing mother. Her husband has taken sannyāsa and gone away. The son, first-class son, is instructing mother. That is the book. You will find full instruction to the mother. You can read one of the passages. You can read, Nitāi, what He is instructing to His mother. The mother is questioning, and son is answering.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: Nowadays that is no longer true.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays may be different, but I am speaking of the Vedic ideas, that woman in all circumstances, unless the husband is crazy or something like that, mad, or..., in every case the instance is that wife is faithful and subservient to the husband. That is the Vedic culture. Even the husband goes out of home, vānaprastha, the wife also goes with him. When he takes sannyāsa, at that time there is no accompaniment of wife. Otherwise in gṛhastha life and even vānaprastha life, the wife is constant companion and subservient. That is the history of Vedic culture. History, Gāndhārī, because her husband was blind, so when the marriage settlement was done, she was not blind, but she voluntarily became blind by wrapping cloth.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: They may think, but we are thinking in this way. Who is right?

Devotee: We are right, the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...thinking is right because they could not go to the moon. They say they went, but actually they could not. Now they are disappointed. (break)

Devotee: ...Prabhupāda? He had some question whether Lord Nityānanda ever took sannyāsa.

Prabhupāda: No. (break) ...went with the sannyāsīs as brahmacārī. (break) ...philosophy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Philosophy book.

Harikeśa: Philosophy book is waiting until...

Brahmānanda: No, Hayagrīva is editing it now.

Harikeśa: Oh, now? Jaya.

Satsvarūpa: We're going to do some of the chapters in installments in Back to Godhead. We're going to do Darwin as soon as possible, in a month or two. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...philosophy is the ultimate, Vedānta. Vedānta philosophy. And Bhāgavata is the commentary on the Vedānta philosophy. (break) ...Darwin's theory. Wherefrom he begins?

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Citsukhānanda: Bengali sweets means Caitanya-caritāmṛta, different books of Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Our, what is his name?

Jayatīrtha: Citsukhānanda.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The boy who has taken sannyāsa, bookseller?

Devotees: Tripurāri Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Tripurāri. He does so. (chuckles) He will sell Bengali sweet, and he will say, "You will find the formula here," so that his main business is to sell the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hari hari bol! Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Why you went to Vṛndāvana, New Vrindaban?

Guru dāsa: I associated with Kirtananda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: And what was the result?

Guru dāsa: Well, I'm a little bit stronger in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Associating with devotees is a wonderful thing. They are really doing a lot of productive service there. They just put in a new road. The palace, they're putting the arches up today. Everyone's enthusiastic there. (break)

Prabhupāda: You informed him that you are taking sannyāsa?

Guru dāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What did he say?

Guru dāsa: He smiled, said "Very nice." (break) ...Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Gosvāmī that, as you requested, I'd like to join his bus party.

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. How rascal they are. Anything else... This is Ramakrishna Mission's. They are rascals. These rascals, they do not know anything, and still, they have made a missionary activity.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I have read one Māyāvādī. He says that it's as good to meditate on your wife as it is to meditate on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I read that, really. So degraded.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you take sannyāsa? Think of your wife at home. Why do you take sannyāsa? Just see how rascal they are.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have gone against all the Vedic principles.

Prabhupāda: Remain at home; think of your wife. Everyone is doing that. Then why do you take sannyāsa and cheat others? Māyāvādam asac-chāstram. Asat, it is very abominable philosophy. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...is about twenty miles up this coast.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The house that I was telling you about, the other house, is twenty miles up this coast.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...only on Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise all these Māyāvādīs would have disturbed us. They got... This man says this, this man says this... We kick out all these things. Only what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. Asac-chāstram pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate. You can take.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian man (6): Suppose she doesn't want to get married for the rest of her life, just wants to serve the Lord?

Prabhupāda: So in his spiritual position everyone is a brāhmaṇa.

Brahmānanda: But you give brahminical initiation to unmarried women.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But on spiritual point she is brāhmaṇa. On the spiritual platform there is no such distinction.

Devotee (7): Oh, it's not possible for a woman to become a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (2): What is the position of the woman in a..., late in life, the wife of a devotee?

Prabhupāda: What is that position?

Brahmānanda: After the husband takes sannyāsa?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Brahmānanda: What is the duties of the woman after the husband takes sannyāsa?

Prabhupāda: So remain a devotee, widow. She is not allowed to marry.

Indian man (4): I know, Prabhupāda, one of your Godsisters in Vṛndāvana. She is very old. She is staying in Tīrtha Mahārāja's maṭha. So she told me she took her initiation when she was about sixteen year old and still she stays in the temple and she... (break) ...say you're the most pious person on this planet.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Taranti te. Yes. So this is the position. Therefore our propaganda is that "You take Kṛṣṇa and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and then you'll be happy." This is our propaganda. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We have to simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. (aside:) Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) This time I have requested all Nairobi important friends that "Now you take sannyāsa and become guru. Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked everyone to become guru. amāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You have come to Africa. Now become their guru and deliver them." "Now, how shall I do it?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Simply speak. Don't become very big upstart. Simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has done. That's all. You become guru." (Hindi) "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has said this. The meaning of this is this," as Kṛṣṇa left the meaning to be declared or understood by some fools and rascals. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Extremely difficult, that even man like Gautama Buddha had several times come back to see his child and son when he left his house, more than half a dozen times, come and go, come and go. Finally he closed his eyes and ran away. A man of that type. And for ordinary human beings it is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. Therefore vānaprastha is recommended, that "Go out of home, remain in the tīrtha-sthana and again come. See your children. Again go. Then take sannyāsa.

Dr. Patel: Tapering it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: That is why devata-loka is not a place from where you can have a release. It is from human life that you can have moksa. Devatas cannot get it.

Prabhupāda: No, no, human... Devatas cannot because they have got enough of material enjoyment.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And then? Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy. That's all. This is family enemies. In the family nobody expects enemy, but Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that these are enemies in the family. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Now everyone is hankering after very beautiful wife, and Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "Then you are bringing one enemy." Just see what is the type of civilization. Because if you become too much attached to wife, then you'll never be able to go out of home and take sannyāsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Andha-kūpam.

Prabhupāda: Andha-kūpam. You shall have to die. Gṛham andha-kūpam. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato... You'll never be able to leave the home if wife is very attractive. Of course, everyone's wife is very attractive. (laughs)

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And we want to make Mohammedans Hindus.

Acyutānanda: Yes. They also do that. They try and... Mainly they try and reconvert the Christians. They get some results. And they pander to the tribal castes so that they don't convert to Christianity. The Mohammedans and Christians have refused to use birth control, so they think that their population will soon outnumber the Hindus. So they are afraid that the Mohammedan and Christian block will sway elections in the future. (break)

Jayapatākā: Brahmacārīs don't like to take the instructions from the elder devotees, and then they want to take sannyāsa, so they think they can be independent and give orders themself and not listen.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not to be given all of a sudden. (break)...to become sevaka. Everyone wants to become sevya.

Hṛdayānanda: Served.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, ultimately, God. Se pasha pasha pasha bo... (?) When everything failure, then to become God.

Jayapatākā: That's why Lord Caitanya said that "I am not a sannyāsī or a..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa...

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...no more desire of material enjoyment he is fit for sannyāsa. Anyone who sees: "Oh, this car is very nice. This beautiful wife is very... A very beautiful woman is very nice," he should not think of taking sannyāsa. Viṣa-bhakṣaṇād apy asādhu: "Such desires is most abominable, more than taking poison." To commit suicide by taking poison is most abominable thing, because he's going to be a ghost. He'll be punished to become a ghost, those who commit suicide. Or, if one is suddenly killed and he has so many desires, he becomes ghost. Therefore viṣa-bhakṣaṇa, taking poison, and die untimely, is most abominable, or commit suicide. By the material law also, to attempt to commit suicide is criminal. You know that?

Devotees: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is criminal. (Bengali) If you take s annyāsa... Just like there are so many sannyāsīs, for filling up the belly. Wherever you go they give some alms. But in..., outside India, who cares for the sannyāsī? Then why you should be eager to take sannyāsa and cheat yourself? You cannot cheat others, but you can cheat yourself.

Hṛdayānanda: Outside India a sannyāsī will starve.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So I do not know why our disciples are so anxious to take sannyāsa, at least those who are outside. Everyone comes: "Give me sannyāsa." What is the idea?

Jayapatākā: Freedom from authority.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh? Who cares him, for authority.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: No, they, they don't want to take order as brahmacārī. If they're sannyāsī they think they can do as they feel.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They all want to become leaders.

Prabhupāda: So what kind of leader? If you cannot lead others, what kind of leader?

Jayapatākā: That's why a brahmacārī should...

Prabhupāda: If you mislead them, if you mislead them, then what is the use of taking leadership?

Jayapatākā: That's why that system where a brahmacārī is recommended for one year and then he proves himself by doing some extraordinary preaching work is a very good system. Otherwise, anyone just comes and by pressurizing and begging and pleading, then they try to take sannyāsa. Then they don't stay to the path.

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means ultimate success, because this human life is meant for becoming disgusted with this material life: "No more." Material life means to take a body and enjoy this material āhāra-nidrā, sleeping twenty-four hours, eating like elephant, and sex life like a monkey, these animals. This is material life, eating, sleeping, mating, and always afraid of. This is material life. And human life means to take freedom from these four things: no more afraid, no more sex, no more hankering after eating or sleeping. That is success. Everyone... You'll see in the sparrow in the morning. They're enjoying sex. So this is material life: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. And spiritual life means to become free from all this nonsense. That is spiritual life. They do not know what is spiritual life. The whole world, they do not know what is spiritual life. This is spiritual life, to become free from these four abominable things.

Hṛdayānanda: They are trying to increase these four things.

Prabhupāda: That means cheating themselves. What is the use of taking sannyāsa and cheat yourself? Material life means punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly doing the same thing. Either as human being or as monkey or as a small ant or the demigods, but doing the business is the same, four things: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. In different scale, doing the same business. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaḥ, "again and again," carvita-carvaṇānām, "chewing the chewed." If one is sober, he thinks that "These four business, I have done many, many lives, as sparrow, or as jackal, or as demigod, and I have got this human form. Again I am doing this? So what is benefit of this human form of life?" This is sense. "I got this valuable life, and I am still doing the same thing as dogs and cats and sparrows? Then what is the difference between me and the dogs?" That is sense. "What is my better engagement?" That better engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then his life is successful. Otherwise what is the use of...? Again become a sparrow. Again wait for millions of years to come by evolutionary process to the human form of life. You see? This is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). Because they cannot control the sense, they are going in the darkest part of this material existence.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not. He cannot use the instruments for enjoyment.

Hṛdayānanda: So he's frustrated.

Prabhupāda: Frustrated? Everyone. Whether young or not, everyone is frustrated. He says that the desire in old man... It is expected because he has gone through the gṛhastha life. Gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. That's all. It is not needed. But those who are unable to avoid it—"All right, have for some time. Then become sannyāsī." This is the process. It is not needed. So in old age, after going through these stages, brahmacārī is learning how to stop this sex life, and then, if one is still unable—"All right, take concession for twenty-five years. Then give up this habit. Then take sannyāsa." So that is the process, one who has gone through the stages, expected that he has no more... āra nārī bapa (?) "I have done..." But generally, those who are not trained up, their desire is not diminished. They have got the... That you see in your country, Western country. Seventy-five, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: So is it necessary to be fixed up to take sannyāsa, or one should take sannyāsa to become fixed up?

Prabhupāda: To become fixed, become sannyāsī, the other three processes are there, to become brahmacārī, to become gṛhastha, to become vānaprastha, stage by stage. But if one is able, he can take sannyāsa. The stages are there, but if one is very competent, he can be given sannyāsa. And that competency is also very simple. If you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you can immediately become competent. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon as you fully engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately you become more than a sannyāsī.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, he's trying. That's all. But active service is more important.

Hṛdayānanda: Hm. That is your example.

Prabhupāda: But something is better than nothing. If he goes, goes away to practice somewhere else, better give him chance to practice this. He's not doing anything bad. That is good. That is... But the better service is to be active servant, servitor.

Hari-śauri: That's your mercy on us.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, personally He gives example. He could have done at His home. Why He took sannyāsa and went out of home?

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those things, the GBC made a resolution...

Madhudviṣa: The resolutions that we made were wrong in that regard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh?

Madhudviṣa: The resolutions that we made were wrong. Prabhupāda rectified us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In what regard?

Madhudviṣa: We made a resolution that if a householder gets married, then he has to take care of his wife for the rest of his life till he takes sannyāsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, Prabhupāda corrected that.

Madhudviṣa: Yeah. So that resolution was wrong. And also the resolution about the women and the children coming to the temple, not accepting them, that was also wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now what's the point?

Madhudviṣa: So now they're rectified.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now what is the point?

Madhudviṣa: I'm just saying that we should have a more practical understanding of this, of our attitude towards the whole situation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why Prabhupāda corrected us.

Prabhupāda: So I think it may be further decided. Make a small committee of three or four gṛhasthas, and you define how you live.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Lokanātha: They have got white? Do they wear white?

Prabhupāda: They are not under any rule and regulation, paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa means, just like mlecchas and yavanas, they are not under any rules and regulation. Similarly, a paramahaṁsa is also not under any rules and regulation. He can do whatever he likes. Śāstra is not meant for him. Avadhūta. He is not in the material world, mahābhāva. So that is the last stage of sannyāsa. Kuṭicaka means when from family life, vānaprastha, and then one takes sannyāsa, that is kuṭicaka. Kuṭicaka means he does not remain at home but goes outside home, outside the village area and makes a kuti, cottage, and lives there. But because he is not accustomed to beg, from his house some foodstuff is sent. Just like you are sending to that Sharma some food? This is kuṭicaka. But after some time, when he's little experienced, then he goes from door to door: "Give me a piece of bread." Madhukārī. Madhukāra. Madhukāra means the bee, honeybee. What is called?

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Sleeping-oḥ, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful. This is our program. We don't want to stop anything. How it can be stopped? Whatever is the bare neces.... Just like we have taken sannyāsa. What is that? "Oh, we have no sex life only. Otherwise, we are also eating, we are also sleeping." So that is also stopped in good old age. In old age, if a person like me, at the age of eighty years, if I would have shopped for sex life, does it look very good? Young men, they are allowed. That's all right. But a young..., old man is going to the club and spending for sex life so much money. Therefore younger generation, they're allowed gṛhastha life from twenty-five years to fifty years. That's all. After that, stop sex life. Actually, they want to stop population.

Room Conversation Excerpt -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He was one year senior to me. He appeared(?) from the year 1919, I appeared(?) in 1920.

Indian Man: Yes. And then he was in a plane crash? Or...?

Prabhupāda: There is a great history.

Indian Man: Yes. I don't know if it is true. (break) ...taken sannyāsa, and just gone out somewhere.

Prabhupāda: So anyway, although you have got independence, India, oh, what is the profit?

Hari-śauri: The independence is just about to come, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you start preaching there.

Prabhupāda: Real sva-raja is to go back to home, back to Godhead. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: When one goes to vana, it is called vānaprastha. So after family life, according to Vedic civilization, one has to accept vānaprastha life. And when one is fully prepared, he takes sannyāsa after vānaprastha life. So vanaṁ gataḥ means one should prepare by going to the forest for the next life of renounced order of life. That is human civilization: brahmacārī, gṛhasta, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means full engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Otherwise, what is the use of going to the forest? In the forest there are many monkeys also. So that kind of life is not harim āśrayeta. He must take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari. That is oṁ tat sat. And then he'll be happy. That is Vedic civilization. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching to the boys, his class friends. He was five-years-old boy. Naturally, his friends are also of the same age, and he's teaching this bhāgavata-dharma. Read this.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: A brahmacārī is advised to go begging alms door to door, addressing all women as mother, and whatever he collects goes to the benefit of the guru. In this way he learns how to control his senses and sacrifice everything for the guru. When he is fully trained, if he likes he is allowed to marry. Thus he is not an ordinary gṛhastha who has learned only how to satisfy his senses. A trained gṛhastha can gradually give up household life and go to the forest to become increasingly enlightened in spiritual life and at last take sannyāsa. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained to his father that to be freed from all material anxieties one should go to the forest. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. One should give up his household, which is a place for going further and further down into the darkest regions of material existence. The first advice, therefore, is that one must give up household life (gṛham andha-kūpam). However, if one prefers to remain in the dark well of household life because of uncontrolled senses, he becomes increasingly entangled by ropes of affection for his wife, children, servants, house, money and so on. Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Patanty adhaḥ. This is stated in the śāstra. Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, because they have not understood Kṛṣṇa, even they have gone up to the Brahman, they cannot stand there; they fall down. Again they come to the material world. The Māyāvādīs, they say, brahma satyma jagan mithyā, "Brahman is truth, and this material world is false." They take sannyāsa, but after some time they fall down, again take to other businesses than Brahman in the material world. Just like our Vivekananda. He came to the Western countries to preach Vedānta, and he has advertised that "Whole America has become Vedantist." The proof of Vedānta is when he returned to India he became very enthusiastic to open hospitals like the Christian missionaries. So if the material world is false, so why he's trying to open hospitals? Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagat is mithyā. So why in the mithyā platform he's taking credit by opening hospitals?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Anyābhilāsa-śūnyam, anyābhilāsa-śūnyam, jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply you should be prepared to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. If you are trying in different way, for sense gratification, karmīs are grossly, they want something (indistinct) they want nice car, wife, house, nice wife, nice (indistinct), So many things. That is karmī life. Jñānī, as they are baffled, they say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, this endeavor for all mithyā. They take sannyasa, but after few days, again they take to the karmī's life. So that is also not good. Restless, so long you remain karmī, jñāni, yogi, restless. But when you become devotee you have no such desires, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (BRS 1.1.11). And then you become happy. Simply (indistinct) to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, he after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, what was his position? His position was, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. Yes. Yes, I am now ready to do whatever You say." That is (indistinct). He did not become a karmī, jñāni, yogi. Simply (indistinct) to execute the order of Kṛṣṇa. Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat-prasādān madhusūdana.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Was it difficult for you to give up what you had been doing in order to devote full time.

Prabhupāda: No, it is the Vedic system that at a certain age they should give up family connection and completely devote for God consciousness. In the beginning, twenty-five years, he should learn from guru about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then, if he is able, he does not become a family man, but if he is unable or circumstantially, he may become a family man. So he can remain a family man up to fiftieth year and then he retires from family life. He travels in holy places with his wife, and sometimes he comes home and sometimes he goes home. In this way, when he's practiced to give up family attachment, then the wife goes back home to the care of her elderly children, and the man takes sannyāsa, and he remains alone simply for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is Vedic system.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Is it better to do it the way you did it or to start from a very early age in the, er...?

Rāmeśvara: In other words, some of our members are sannyāsa at an earlier age.

Prabhupāda: No, if... The purpose is to train a person in brahmacārī, not to enter into the entanglement of this material life. That is Vedic system. Basic principle is that don't be entangled with this material energy. So at the early age, up to twenty-five, he's trained up. If he can, he can continue as brahmacārī. He directly can take sannyāsa. But if he's unable, so let him go by step by step. Let him become a family, householder life, then retired life, then... But sannyāsa at the end, that is compulsory, not that unless he is shot down by somebody, he's not going to give up family life. That is not Vedic system.

Interviewer: But young men don't tend to be wise, do they?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Interviewer: Young men do not generally possess a great deal of wisdom.

Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Translator: She's asking what should a woman do if she is alone?

Prabhupāda: She cannot be alone. Na sataritatam ananti(?). Woman should not be allowed... Just like children. Children cannot be alone. They must taken care of. Similarly a woman, in childhood, should be taken care of by the father; when she's young, she should be taken care of by the husband; and when she's old, she should be taken care of by elderly sons. You'll find in the Vedic literature, the father's responsibility is until she's handed over to a suitable young man. And the husband's responsibility is so long she hasn't got elderly children. At that time, when she has got elderly children, he can leave home and take sannyāsa. So the process is a woman is kept under protection always. There is no independence for woman. That is... Still, in India it is going on. The father is obliged to find out a suitable husband for the daughter and give her in his charge. Then his responsibility finished. Until that, she is, he's responsible to take care of the daughter. Unmarried girl to remain always under the protection of the father.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Commissioner: May I explain to you what we have, we are doing, Swamiji? In the religious we have now taken statistics of our veda-paṇḍitas. There are three hundred of them. Now they have said they don't want to come out of their villages. We have said wherever they are, in their own village, for one or two hours, they meet, chant the Veda in the temple or the village.

Prabhupāda: They'll not do that.

Commissioner: They are now willing to.

Prabhupāda: There may be some percentage. If you do not accept the recognized process... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was a great scholar. So He was chanting and dancing. So some of the sannyāsīs, Māyāvādī sannyāsīs in Benares... (to servant:) You keep it there, they will take. There was a meeting, and the question was that "You are a sannyāsī..." This question was put to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "You have taken sannyāsa, you do not read Vedānta, and you are mixing with the sentimental persons, chanting and dancing. What is this?" This was the question. So He explained that, "Yes, My Guru Mahārāja found Me a great rascal." Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). You understand Bengali? No. "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a rascal number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." What is that? Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. "He has said that 'You are rascal, you cannot read Vedas and Vedānta. You are rascal. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' So I'm doing that."

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Indian man: So happiness lies above the senses. Above our indriyas.

Prabhupāda: Ha. Happiness means spiritual happiness. That they do not know. Therefore I began my words that so long one is after material happiness he remains as an animal. Because the animal cannot derive spiritual happiness. They do not know. The man can know. Just like this boy, he's coming from very high family in America but he's now happy in this way, by taking sannyāsa, giving up everything, living very plain. He has got money he had got beautiful wife, he had got beautiful home, everything. But he has given up. Not his example. In our country there were many many big, big kings, rājarṣis. Just like Bharata Mahārāja. He was emperor of the whole world. He gave up everything at the age of 24 years, young wife, young children. There are many examples. So actually, we have lost our Vedic culture, the objective, and therefore we are suffering. Simply by holding meetings and... Of course, these things will go on. Government has no other remedy by tax. Whether people are happy or they are happy, it doesn't matter. They have got the power, tax.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: No, it's not very clear. I was just wondering who the other two were.

Prabhupāda: I took sannyāsa from him.

Hari-śauri: Who is that?

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa has to be taken from a sannyāsī, so I took sannyāsa from him.

Hari-śauri: Yes, I was wondering what his name was.

Prabhupāda: Oh, his name is Keśava Mahārāja. He's one of the Godbrothers. He's also one of my Godbrothers.

Hari-śauri: And he took it the same time.

Prabhupāda: They are now dead and gone.

Hari-śauri: Yes. This man, he looks very old already. The other one.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was... He is of my age, middle. The other one, he was older.

Hari-śauri: Harikeśa said the day before you took sannyāsa you were gored by a cow or something? A cow hit you in the stomach?

Prabhupāda: Before?

Hari-śauri: The day before you took sannyāsa?

Prabhupāda: No. No. (laughing)

Hari-śauri: I was told that. I don't know whether it was... Or some time around then.

Prabhupāda: That was long before.

Hari-śauri: Oh, that was a long time.

Prabhupāda: I took sannyāsa sometime in '59, and... No, that is after I took sannyāsa. No, no. Before, yes. Before or after,...

Hari-śauri: He said it was the day before.

Prabhupāda: No. That was an incident in Delhi. Now I think it was... It was before. Before. That was sometime in 1956.

Hari-śauri: Oh, that's a long time before.

Prabhupāda: And I took sannyāsa in 1959.

Hari-śauri: That was in Vṛndāvana or Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No, Delhi. Vānaprastha. I was alone. But my paper was going on, Back to Godhead. In Delhi I was alone. I was doing everything. Editing, selling, collecting, cooking.

Hari-śauri: There was no Godbrothers helping at all?

Prabhupāda: I did not take. They wanted. I did not like.

Hari-śauri: Did you ever think at that time that you would be able to expand or...

Prabhupāda: I was trying to do. It was a struggle at that time. At that time, I lived with some of my Godbrothers, but I did not like, and I left their temple, and I was living alone. Then in Imlitala you know here? Imlitala, Seva-kunj there is a...

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, undoubtedly.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very sincere.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa sent him. He... In Vṛndāvana, he said that "Please give me shelter." I thought that "There are so many Indian comes and go." So when he insisted, "All right, you stay."

Hari-śauri: Yeah. He took sannyāsa at the opening of the temple. I remember that.

Prabhupāda: He's a good boy.

Hari-śauri: He's stuck it out for a long time in Orissa. He's been there a long time, by himself a lot of the time too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He's organizing nicely.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very sincere. He follows all the regulations very rigidly. He gets up in the morning, ideal example.

Jagadīśa: He understands the philosophy quite well.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And he is educated. He is B.Sc. He knows Hindi also.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu was gṛhastha, but when He took sannyāsa: "Oh, I am now..." For sober person. That is wanted. That is ideal. He married twice. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura married twice. Caitanya Mahāprabhu married twice. What is the wrong there? One has to become pure devotee, that's all. Other things, of course, are circumstantially favorable, either a gṛhastha, brahmacārī or vānaprastha or sannyāsa. Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya (CC Madhya 8.128). You must know the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That makes you guru, not this dress. So what you are thinking of American program? Do it seriously. Balavanta is very expert. And all of you are expert. And do it seriously and systematically, not change the position, this side and this, change. That's not good. That makes fickle. Strength of mind wanted.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he (she) doesn't require husband. He (she) does not require. He... She knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or...?" And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Kṛṣṇa. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way... And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison. If you want, get one nice... They are, all of them qualified. Get one wife and live like a gentleman. Similarly woman. Live with one husband fastidiously, with children. What is the wrong there? We have so many gṛhastha devotees. You have got children. Pradyumna has got child. Gopāla has... Live with husband, wife. There is no restriction for husband and wife. But what is this nonsense that you take sannyāsa and make relation with...? This should be completely stopped. And in our, this campus, actually those who are eager to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should live, nobody else. We give free food, free apartment, cloth and everything. "Come here. Live. As far as possible we shall provide." But this is specially meant for bhagavad-bhajana. Attend ārati, early rise in the morning, attend the functions, take prasādam... In this way everything will be reorganized, not loose things.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: If they don't get some result from their activity, they become discouraged.

Rāmeśvara: In other words, sometimes...

Prabhupāda: Now, who said that "You don't bring money"? But I am not discouraging you, even if you don't bring money.

Gargamuni: When we took sannyāsa, you told us to go door to door.

Prabhupāda: That's all!

Gargamuni: We brought some fruits and some change, and Prabhupāda was very satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: We went door to door for two hours.

Rāmeśvara: No, I mean it is practical that if a man comes with artistic talents, then I will try to engage him as an artist. Different talents...

Prabhupāda: No, engage him. There must be engagement. Either as a artist or bookseller, there must be engagement.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not... He did not say possible. Ihā bāhya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was interested only on the spiritual platform. He had no idea of material side. He rejected material side.

Satsvarūpa: But don't we do that also?

Prabhupāda: No. Our position is different. We are trying to implement Kṛṣṇa consciousness in everything. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally took sannyāsa. He rejected completely material. Niṣkiñcana. But we are not going to be niṣkiñcana. We are trying to cement the troubled position of the... That is also in the prescription of Bhagavad-gītā. We are not rejecting the whole society. Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected everything, ihā bāhya. Rejected meaning, "I do not take much interest in this." Bāhya. "It is external." He was simply interested in the internal, the spiritual. But our duty is that we shall arrange the external affairs also so nicely that one day they will come to the spiritual platform very easily, paving the way. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, personality like that, they have nothing to do with this material world. But we are preaching. We are preaching. Therefore we must pave the situation in such a way that gradually they will be promoted to the spiritual plane, which is not required.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: So we can ideally organize ourselves and then for the rest of the people all we can do is hope that they'll follow it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Set the example.

Prabhupāda: Example. Just like Bhavānanda, when there was no commode here. He was taking my stool and urine. Does it mean he is a sweeper? He's a sannyāsī Vaiṣṇava. Similarly, āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "I am not a sannyāsī." But He took sannyāsa. Actually He is God, so what is the benefit of becoming a sannyāsī, for God? But He became that. (break) In order to serve the mass of people, to bring them to the ideal position, we should try to introduce this varṇāśrama, not that we are going to be candidates of varṇāśrama. It is not our business. But to teach them how the world will be in peaceful position we have to introduce. Now the days of wind will come from March.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Maybe. Out of his affection, it is his good will. He can like anyone, any dog, doesn't matter. But I know he liked me. Anyone, by his choice of free will, he can love any damn thing. It doesn't matter. That is called kṛpā-siddhi. "I like this man. This man must be prominent." That is his will. It doesn't matter on qualification. So all these people, they liked me not on my qualification, but out of affection, out of good will. (laughs) Other, a woman. Woman means my mother-in-law. She was woman. Out of affection for her daughter, she would sacrifice everything for the..., so that her daughter may not be unhappy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your mother-in-law. You said that when you took sannyāsa, she could not take it.

Prabhupāda: No, I must admit she was very, very kind. Very, very kind. Although she's woman, but on account of her daughter... Whatever I'll command, she'll suffer. Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇām (SB 11.5.41). We become indebted in this way with so many people. Devarṣi.

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is that? "Asked..."?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..." It's not his city.

Prabhupāda: He can say that he has taken sannyāsa for his popularization?(?) (Surabhīr Abhipālayantam enters, offers obeisances) Did you consult this article with others' consultation or by whimsical joke?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: It could be...

Prabhupāda: This article...

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Did you publish it by consulting your other colleagues, or whimsically you have published?

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jagat-guru Swami, who is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's your... He's that disciple that was in Africa for a while.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Tall sannyāsī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was preaching in Africa for a while, and he was in India for a while also. He's one of your disciples.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He took sannyāsa last year with Haṁsadūta Swami.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His name is Jagat-guru.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He collected a big donation in Middle East once, and he gave it to you, twelve thousand dollars or some...

Prabhupāda: Our?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he got a letter. Should I read it to Your Divine Grace? "Dear..." It's signed by Morarji Desai. "Dear Shree Jagat-guru Swami, I thank you for your letter of April 4th and am grateful to you for your good wishes. You have cited some very wise sūtras from our ancient writings. Although I have been called upon to shoulder heavy responsibilities, it has been my endeavor in the past and it will be so in future to see that there is no hiatus between my public and private life. This is what I have learned from Gandhiji, and I have thus saved my life from contradictions. Thank you once again for your kind sentiments. Yours sincerely..."

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's nice.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Varṇāśrama-dharma. So human civilization begins, according to Vedic understanding, when there is varṇāśrama system. Otherwise it is not human civilization. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). This system should be followed. Then, gradually, one has to come to the spiritual. Chaotic society cannot help us. There must be systematic social order: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, cātur-varṇyam, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa is not voluntary, but it is compulsory. At the last stage one must take sannyāsa. After fiftieth year one must take to vānaprastha, vanaṁ vrajet. This is system. So... System of purification, how to become designationless. And if we keep the designation, then, śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) "One who keeps the bodily designation, he's no better than the cows and the asses, animal." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that... Caitanya Mahā... This is the shastric, Vedic culture, that we have to purify ourselves from the bodily designation.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

rabhupāda: Then he has to accept sannyāsa from me.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: He should know...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Become initiated.

Jayapatākā: Trustee must be initiated disciple.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: If he is seen... He could be on the advisory board.

Prabhupāda: No, you can say that "If you take sannyāsa, you become on this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll talk to him, and if he says no, then we'll select another person and come back and tell you who our choice is.

Prabhupāda: No, we have got already.

Rāmeśvara: The fourth trust is for Haridaspur, and the proposed trustees are Jayapatākā Swami...

Prabhupāda: That is subsection of Māyāpura.

Jayapatākā: Subsection of Māyāpura.

Rāmeśvara: So that should just be the Māyāpura trustees.

Prabhupāda: It is a section of Māyāpura.

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The meaning, that "I am taking this sannyāsa for the purpose of crossing over the ocean of nescience." Etāṁ sa āsthāya parātma-niṣṭhām. Parātma-niṣṭha, Bhagavān, Paramātmā. Simply to serve Kṛṣṇa... So here are three daṇḍas. One daṇḍa, person. There are four daṇḍas. He is person, "I am." And the other three daṇḍa—my mind... Kāya manaḥ vākya: my mind, my body and my words. "So I dedicate my mind, my body and my activities, parātma-niṣṭha, only for the service of the Supreme. So being situated in that position, following..." Pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. It is not that I have introduced something new. All big, big ācāryas, they took sannyāsa for this preaching work-Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya even. And that is pūrvatamair maharṣibhiḥ. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We have to follow maharṣibhiḥ. So "All ācāryas of India, they have taken sannyāsa, so I am also taking sannyāsa. The business is parātma-niṣṭha." So what will be the benefit? Ahaṁ tariṣyāmi duranta-pāram: "This ocean of nescience is duranta-pāram. It is very, very difficult to cross over. But I'll cross over." How? Tamaḥ. This is darkness, tamaḥ. Mukundāṅghri-niṣevayaiva: "Simply by serving the lotus feet of Mukunda." Mukunda means "one who can give liberation, mukti." Mukunda. So chant again this.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Balavanta: Big British physician, he has proposed...

Prabhupāda: British?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: English. One British physician has proposed that now all old people should be killed to make room for enough young people.

Balavanta: He says they are useless in society. Actually they haven't taken sannyāsa, they're not preaching, so these old people are simply useless.

Prabhupāda: Actually they are useless. (laughter) So our challenge to this science society is all right? Hm? What do you think?

Satsvarūpa: Challenge them to produce even a small living being? What can he do? He can only say, "In the future."

Prabhupāda: That is useless. Then kill them. No future. Immediately. Why future?

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Purī Mahārāja: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Haṁsadūta. Here he is.

Purī Mahārāja: Haṁsadūta. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took sannyāsa.

Purī Mahārāja: Ha. I have seen him, but I could not able to... Haṁsadūta. He sings well. Last parikrama I saw him.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He captured a very big scientist.

Purī Mahārāja: Scientist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One Dr. Kovoor.

Purī Mahārāja: Singhali.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in Ceylon. And this Dr. Kovoor was saying that life comes from chemicals. So Haṁsadūta Mahārāja challenged him that "If life comes from chemicals, then I will give you ten lakhs' rupees if you come to this hall and you make chemicals into life."

Purī Mahārāja: Life. (laughs)