Bertrand Russell

Expressions researched:
"Bertrand Russell" |"Russell"

Philosophy Discussions

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: So this morning's philosopher is called Bertrand Russell. As we enter into this twentieth century, the philosophies become more and more complicated, more and more abstract. So it may be a little difficult to try to understand some of his ideas, but we can try.

Prabhupāda: Philosophy does not become complicated; the mode of living becoming complicated—from simplicity to complication. Otherwise everything is there. Just like by nature's law, the sunrise is not complicated. It is the same process (indistinct). So we are making complicated things underneath the sun. So if we know what is life, then there is no complication. But they do not know. Especially the modern education, they are making things more and more complicated. Therefore the so-called philosophy is becoming complicated.

Śyāmasundara: Another difficulty with Bertrand Russell is that his philosophy changed. Many times throughout his life he changed his viewpoint.

Prabhupāda: That means he does not know what is philosophy. Philosophy cannot be changed. Just like āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam—the four principles of life—eating, sleeping, mating... (aside:) Sit down here.

Devotee: I was watching the (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: All right. So they are eating—where is the change of philosophy? Eating philosophy is there. Sleeping philosophy is there. Why it should change? What is fact, there is no need of changing. Imperfect knowledge changes. Perfect knowledge never changes. So he changes philosophy means his knowledge is imperfect.

Śyāmasundara: He comes in the tradition of the British empiricists, which believes that nothing outside of our senses can give us any knowledge. But still, he was never able to believe that simple mathematical principles like "Two plus equals four" are merely generalizations which we derive from our experience. He says that these things must be eternal principles, such as "Two plus two equals four."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So mathematical calculations, if it is perfect, then it is all right. Just like a child is born: father plus mother equal to child. So this is all right. But if one says that without father, through mother only, child, then how this is mathematical calculation? Whenever there is a child, it is to be understood that there is father and mother. If somebody says "No. Without father, simply mother gives birth to a child," then what kind of calculation is this? Similarly, these so-called philosophers, they simply think the nature is all-in-all, but that's not the fact. Nature is prakṛti, just like mother. There must be father. But they do not believe in father. So what kind of mathematical calculation? That is not mathematical calculation; that is concoction. Mathematical calculation—"Two plus two equal to four"—is a fact everywhere. Either you go to Europe or America or anywhere you go, that mathematical calculation—"Two plus two equal to four"—it can be understood. Similarly, it is very easy to understand that without father, mother cannot give birth to a child. Similarly, this nature, without the supreme father, Kṛṣṇa, she cannot give any birth. But these modern philosophers, scientists, they are struck with wonder simply by observing the natural activities. So Kṛṣṇa says that "Background of these natural activities is I." Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My supervision." Just like prakṛti, woman, the girl, naturally, when she is young, her father's direction, er, when she is child. When she is young, husband's direction. When she is old, elderly children's, son's, direction. In India at least you'll find, woman has no independence. And to remain dependent under father, under husband or elderly boys, that is their happiness. And in Western countries I see they're so-called independent, but (indistinct) the women's are so unhappy. So mathematical calculation means you should take the natural sequence, no artificial introduction. That will not make us happy.

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: If you'll remember, some of the philosophers we have discussed, they believe that unless the world is perceived, it does not exist. But Bertrand Russell thought that the world was real in itself. Even though we do not perceive it, it still exists.

Prabhupāda: That, that (indistinct). World exists, whether we perceive or not perceive. It doesn't matter. So many things we do not perceive. Just like the child, he sees the electric fan is moving, but he does not perceive where is electricity power, or the powerhouse. So because the child does not perceive the powerhouse and electricity, it does not mean that there is no electricity or no powerhouse. It is the childish fault that one must think like that, that without electricity, without powerhouse, the fan is moving. That is childish. The so-called perception or no perception is simply childish.

Śyāmasundara: He says that the existence of the real world beyond sense data cannot be proved.

Prabhupāda: Such a nonsense cannot perceive. Therefore we have to go to a person who knows. I may be fool, rascal, so I cannot perceive, but that does not mean things are there as the fools and rascals perceive. Our process is, therefore, Vedic process-tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to be really learned, wise, one must go to a guru. Gurum eva abhigacchet. Must. This abhigacchet word means "must." There is no alternative. He cannot know things as they are without approaching guru. That is our Vedic system. And guru means one who knows the Vedas, and one who is firmly fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is guru.

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: This Bertrand Russell says that the world consists of a number of simple facts, each independent of all the others yet related externally to each other.

Prabhupāda: What are those facts?

Śyāmasundara: Well, everything that we see and perceive is individually separate, atomic, he calls it. So that the world consists of millions, of billions, numberless simple facts. They're externally related, but they're still independent of each other.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're not independent; they are dependent. Who makes that separate? How do I separate them? There is no answer for that. They see simply that things are separate, but how they are separated, wherefrom they have come? That means superficial observation. But our Vedic process is to find out the original source. That is factual knowledge. We can, just like (indistinct) because you are scientist, that if we are talking not according to the scientific facts, it is counter to the facts, then, you are modern scientist, so if you find that there is something we are talking which does not corroborate with the scientific statement, you can point out.

Śyāmasundara: Just like when we were discussing Hegel, Hegel's belief was everything was synthetic, that it..., for every thesis there was an antithesis, and each combining made a synthesis, so that all things were related and all things combined together were the world. But his idea is the opposite—that everything is separated, everything is individual.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Separated, but there is sympathy. It is not separated abrupt. There is sympathy. Just like here, all our students, they are individual, separately, but there is (indistinct) sympathy, that every one of you are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is sympathy. Even though you are all separated, you have got your individual opinions, still there is a sympathy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise what is the use of this assembly unless there is sympathy?

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind plays no part in the process of evolution, because the only evidence for the existence of mental phenomena is a fragment of space and time. But this is not a substance; it is simply a set of relations.

Prabhupāda: He does not know it is also matter, but very subtle matter. It is matter. Just like ether—you cannot touch, you cannot see, but still it is matter. And mind is subtler than the ether. But it is matter. Intelligence is subtler than the mind, but still it is matter. So from Vedic authorities we understand that earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, they are all material.

Dr. Rao: And ahaṅkāra, ego.

Prabhupāda: Ego, that is also matter.

Dr. Rao: That is the ultimate...

Śyāmasundara: So does the mind play any part in the evolutionary process? The mind?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Evolutionary process means... If evolution means to go higher, then from mind you come to intelligence. And if you go still higher, then you come to the platform of soul, spirit soul.

Śyāmasundara: Well, according to these men like Russell, the evolution of bodies, the changes from one body to another, those are simply physical.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. That is nonsense. That we have already discussed, that if evolution of bodies, then just like this Darwin says that some monkeys, eh? So where is the direct proof that a monkey body is changing to a human body? We say that there are different types of bodies always, just like different types of apartment. But the living entity, the soul, is transferring from one apartment to another just like we change. We are in this room, we may go to another room—but that room is already ready. But I am entering a certain type of apartment according to my means. If I can pay more rent, I can get very nice apartment. If I do not pay, I cannot pay, then that is not possible. Similarly, according to our karma, nature is offering us different apartments, and these apartments are already there, fixed up, 8,400,000 species of life. So as you make yourself fit, you enter accordingly. It is not fixed up that because you are now in a very nice apartment you cannot go down or go up. If you are fit for entering into better apartment, that is also ready. And if you are unfit for entering a better, then lower class of apartment, that is also ready. So these things are already there.

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: This Bertrand Russell says that ethics, or what is right and wrong, is simply a set of emotional attitudes, and it cannot be, we cannot regard anything as good or bad. That nothing...

Prabhupāda: He does not make any distinction between good and bad?

Śyāmasundara: That there's no absolute good and bad. Nothing can be said "This is true or false," that "This is good," or that "This is bad."

Prabhupāda: That means he could not observe the distinction between good and bad. Does it mean like that?

Śyāmasundara: He says the only knowledge which is valid is proven scientifically, and he says that since moral right and wrong is not...

Prabhupāda: What is his proposal? What is scientifically proven? What is scientifically bad?

Śyāmasundara: He says good and bad are not subject to scientific proof.

Prabhupāda: But proof to him. But there is proof, what is really good and what is really bad. Has he given any practical example, that "This is scientifically good" and that "this is scientifically bad"?

Śyāmasundara: He says, "What is good is that which is desired," that desirable.

Prabhupāda: But anyone can desire anything. (laughter) So it is nonsense.

Pañca-draviḍa: Also it is nonsense because he went to jail because he wanted them not to bomb. He went to jail himself.

Prabhupāda: So was that not bad thing, to go to the jail? (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: But it's relative. He says it's relative, good and bad.

Prabhupāda: Then he was a madman. (laughter)

Philosophy Discussion on Bertrand Russell:

Śyāmasundara: Another difficulty with Bertrand Russell is that his philosophy changed. Many times throughout his life he changed his viewpoint.

Prabhupāda: That means he does not know what is philosophy. Philosophy cannot be changed. Just like āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam—the four principles of life—eating, sleeping, mating... (aside:) Sit down here.

Devotee: I was watching the (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: All right. So they are eating—where is the change of philosophy? Eating philosophy is there. Sleeping philosophy is there. Why it should change? What is fact, there is no need of changing. Imperfect knowledge changes. Perfect knowledge never changes. So he changes philosophy means his knowledge is imperfect.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: I would not want death through suffering. I should love to go to sleep and die. When I have an operation, I would like to die under the anaesthetic. It would be quite beautiful. And I say that, though I have no picture in my mind at all of what would happen after death or if anything happens. I love the description which was given by my friend Bertrand Russell, that life is like being born in a spring on the hillside, and the stream becoming a river... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...so many tossings. That is the problem of life. It is not that it begins and goes. Going to the end, oh, we have to face so many tossings. That is the problem of life.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to teach them how to elect leader. These are the qualification of the leaders. He must not be sinful. Then he can be. (break) ...people will find in our camp. (break)

Prajāpati: ...one philosopher atheist by the name Bertrand Russell, he tries to prove that God does not exist by saying that people who say God exists, say that God is, everything has a cause and that the first cause is God, and Bertrand Russell says, "Well, if everything has a cause, then God also must have a cause. So that, there must be no God."

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...of the same quality, then what is the necessity of another God? It is a conclusion like this, that in the hospital everyone is patient. Therefore doctor is also patient because he's in the hospital. In the prisonhouse they're all prisoners. Therefore the superintendent of police he is also prisoner. Or the governor comes to see, visit, he is also prisoner. It is conclusion like that. God means He has got a special potency that He exists without any cause. Sva-rāṭ. This word is used in Bhāgavatam, sva-rāṭ: "completely independent." Who is that rascal, Bernard Russell? He is a well...

Yaśomatīnandana: Bertrand Russell. Yeah, British philosopher. He died probably. He died long time ago?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, there must be institution.

Justin Murphy: But surely training by oneself. But training by oneself, such as for example an Albert Einstein or a Bertrand Russell...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no, no, no. By teacher. You have become geographer not by yourself.

Justin Murphy: Oh, yes, but we also have many... I'm nowhere near what you're saying is a first-class. I'm talking about some of our latter-day philosophers, and Bertrand Russell is a person, for example, who, for gentleness, sobriety, and thought, whom I admire very much. And he has attained that himself. He hasn't been... He was certainly, as we all must be, surely, trained to begin with. But then it's a process of individual thought.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: One thing I wondered about. In our terms sometimes you can find a person that you admire or who you believe does good, but he professes to be an atheist. I'm thinking about a person like Bertrand Russell.

Prabhupāda: No, our ideas are standard. We are not manufacturing any idea. Just like whatever we speak, immediately we give evidence from the śāstra. That is our standard. We accept standard idea, and the standard idea means the ideas given by God. That is standard. There is no mistake. There is no cheating, There is no illusion. Any idea we form, that is prone to these four defects. One defect is that we are prone to commit mistake. We are prone to be illusioned. And our senses are imperfect. So being subjected to mistaken idea, illusioned idea, our senses being imperfect, if we want to give some law, that is cheating.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who is speculative on the strength of his own knowledge is imperfect. Because we are imperfect, speculation is imperfect.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: The same criticism that you made of induction was also made by John Stuart Mill and Bertrand Russell, but they became skeptics. They said, "Therefore there's no knowledge at all."

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. That is also speculation. (laughter) "Because I have failed, therefore there is no knowledge." This is also imperfect because how I can conclude like that? I am imperfect. I cannot decide this way or that way. So that is also. Vedic knowledge says that a conditioned soul has got four defects: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. Any conditioned soul. Even Brahma, he is receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.