View source for You're using materialist words, Swami. You're using materialist words, greater and smaller

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[[Category:Prabhupada Responding to Comments]]
[[Category:Prabhupada Responding to Comments... 1971]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="4" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1971 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1971 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithDrWeiroftheMensaSocietySeptember51971London_0" class="quote" parent="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="25" link="Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London" link_text="Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London">
<div class="heading">What do you mean by spiritual? No speaking? If I say greater and smaller in this way and you say this is material. Then what is a spiritual expression of this? Can you give me? That means stop talking?
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London|Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: In Geometry they say the point has no length nor breadth. But that is not fact. The point has length and breadth but you cannot measure it.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Ah, but the mathematician would say that that isn't the definition of a point is something that has no breadth or depth, but his purpose is working out his philosophy.</p>
<p>Mensa Member: (indistinct) he'd say something entirely different... absolute (indistinct) point.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: But if you magnify the point you'll find there is...</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: But, coming back to...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: It is a question of vision. With your present imperfect vision you do not see. When you take a magnifying glass you see, "Oh, there is length and breadth."</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Ah, but that brings you, Swami, straight away into the problem of the infinite regress. It (indistinct) get smaller and smaller. But you know you might just as well stop at the beginning...</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: ...I am the smallest of the small.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Veda. (Sanskrit verse) God is greater than the greatest and smaller than the smallest.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: You're using materialist words, Swami. You're using materialist words, greater and smaller.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What you meant spiritual?</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: No, but I say you are using materialist words to describe them.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What do you mean by spiritual? No speaking?</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: What I say is... (laughter)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If I say greater and smaller in this way and you say this is material. Then what is a spiritual expression of this? Can you give me? That means stop talking?</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: I think the object...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: ...you have to. This is not material. When you speak in spiritual connection this is spiritual.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: You'd have to invent a new language really.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. Why... the same language, the same language.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Well you won't get very far in any form of philosophy...</p>
<p>Mensa Member: (indistinct)</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: But the consciousness in which something is done denotes it. For instance, I could be sweeping the street. Someone would think, "Ah, I'm just a material street sweeper." But if I'm doing it for Kṛṣṇa it's a transcendental activity, it's a spiritual activity, not a material activity.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Ah, yes, but I mean, then you have a, if somebody else who's sweeping faster and better, you say that he's greater spiritually even if he's doing it...</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: No.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, the purpose must be spiritual, the purpose must be for Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: So if we're speaking about Kṛṣṇa then our words become spiritual.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Yes, but I think if you're talking about spiritual things you mustn't try and quantify it.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Spiritual means it has no material qualification. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: You can't measure the beauty of a rose with a ruler.</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: But you can it's like this, it's like that. You have to be able to describe it somehow.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Actually in higher sense there is nothing material because everything is emanating from God, therefore everything is spiritual.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Well, that's true but the electron, as far as you can say, may be spiritual.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: There is no distinction in higher status because we say that everything that we see that is manifestation of God's energy.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Exactly.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Energy. So in that sense, if it is God's energy there is nothing material. It is material when we forget God. That is material.</p>
<p>Dr. Weir: Well I would have said... You're rather going back to the analogy of the light. If there's no light there you can't see whether there's anything there or not. Directly you have the light it enables you to see it. But the things exist independent of whether the light was there all along.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Light is in relationship with the fire. So light is not different from the fire. Unless there is fire there is no light. There is no heat. So as soon as you feel heat or see light the fire is there. In higher sense those who can realize immediately realize that there is fire. Just like here there's light. Immediately you can understand there is fire. There is electricity. So it is a question of realization. In the higher realization there is nothing matter. Everything is spiritual. Simply when you forget God that is material. That is material.</p>
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