View source for There was a lot of chaos even in the old days when these (varnasrama) divisions were there. If you look at ancient history, it is one long story of massacres and wars and turmoil

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[[Category:Prabhupada Responding to Comments]]
[[Category:Prabhupada Responding to Comments... 1971]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="4" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1971 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1971 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithDrKaranSinghNovember251971Delhi_0" class="quote" parent="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="29" link="Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi" link_text="Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi">
<div class="heading">No. But so far our Indian history goes, we had two wars only, big wars. One war was Rāvaṇa and Rāma, another was between the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas after many millions of years passed.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi|Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: What you are? "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." Śivo 'ham is the beginning. Śivo 'ham, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, that is the beginning realization. Just like "I am this," "I am Indian," "I am this." Then you have to think over, then what is my duty? This perception that I am Śiva or Maṅgala, I am spirit soul, then what is my duty? I am working now with the bodily concept of life: "I am Indian," "I am Kashmiri," "I am this," "I am that." So when I realize that I am neither Kashmiri nor Indian nor this nor that, I am śivo 'ham, or brahmāsmi, or I am eternal servant of God, Kṛṣṇa, that is your pure. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. When you come to that understanding, śivo 'ham understanding, brahmāsmi understanding, or eternal servant of God understanding, then your duty begins. That is bhakti. So, therefore, bhakti is not on the material platform. Bhakti is on the spiritual platform. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate ([[Vanisource:BG 14.26 (1972)|BG 14.26]]).</p>
:brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
:na śocati na kāṅkṣati
:samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
:mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
:([[Vanisource:BG 18.54 (1972)|BG 18.54]])
<p>So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purifying everyone. This bodily concept of life, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," they are forgetting. Just like in our society there are devotees from many religious sects, many countries, but they are nobody in that concept of life. They are purely thinking, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." This is bhakti. This is spiritual platform. So far the material platform is concerned, there is already division. An intelligent class of men, the administrator class. Just like not all everyone is interested taking part in administration. Just like we, at least myself, if you invite me to come to the administration, I will not be interested. We are interested in different thing. So similarly, naturally there is a division. The intelligent class of men, they like to study philosophy, they like to understand what is the ultimate goal of life, so many things. So intelligent class of men should be engaged in that business. They should not be dragged in other platform. And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing. Daily, weekly, this government, that government, that government. Why? Because they are not trained up how to administer. Therefore, that is required. Tejaḥ. First these administrators must be tejasī, īśvara bhava(?). (Sanskrit) Now there will be fight, and the administers will sit down on the nice couch and the common man will fight. Formerly kṣatriya came first of all. Like Arjuna, he is in the front. The other side, Duryodhana is in the front. So the fighter in that, "Oh, my master is there." But there is no kṣatriya. The administration is under the śūdra side. How they can manage? So they must be trained. As in business, we give training. Similarly, those who are going to take up the responsibility of administration, they should be trained. And who will train them? The brāhmaṇas, the śāstra, sādhu-śāstra-guru. And those who are common men, they will simply work under their direction. This division is already there, simply the training is not there. Therefore, there is chaos.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: There was a lot of chaos even in the old days when these divisions were there.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, not so.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: If you look at ancient history, it is one long story of massacres and wars and turmoil.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: If you read (indistinct).</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: (indistinct) some thousands of years. But so far our Indian history goes, we had two wars only, big wars. One war was Rāvaṇa and Rāma, another was between the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas after many millions of years passed.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: There's only two recorded wars.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all right. It was recorded. That fighting is going on even in the family. We see between husband and wife also there is sometimes fighting. That is not taken into account. But the major wars in the history of the world... Because India, or Bhāratavarṣa, means the whole world. Now it is cut into pieces. Just like twenty years ago, Pakistan is cut. This planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. Later on, after the ruling of Mahārāja Bharata... You know Mahārāja Bharata. After his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And up to the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, there was one ruling all over the world. One king in this (indistinct). Then gradually... Why? The culture was lost. The Vedic culture was lost. Up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the Vedic culture was kept intact. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, while he was going on tour of the Western countries, he saw one black man was trying to kill one cow. He immediately took his sword, ""Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" So that culture we have lost. Immediately he began, "With this sword I shall kill you."</p>
<p>So king should give protection to all living entities. That is king's duty, state's duty. Everyone should have living right. Why the animals should be killed? They are also prajā. Is it not duty of the king to give protection? And that was being done up to the Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Therefore, there was one kingdom. When they deteriorated, gradually part, part, part. Just like what is this Pakistan problem? These Pakistani Muhammadans, they do not come from Muhammadan country. They are our men, Hindus converted. But we could not keep the culture. Just like Kṛṣṇa says,</p>
:māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
:ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
:striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
:te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
:([[Vanisource:BG 9.32 (1972)|BG 9.32]])
<p>Another in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,</p>
:kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā
:ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ
:ye 'nye ca pāpā (yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ)
:śudhyanti tasmai prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ
:([[Vanisource:SB 2.4.18|SB 2.4.18]])
<p>We did not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore, we created all these things. Whose duty it is? Kṛṣṇa said, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "Even one is born in pāpa-yoni, he can come to Me." That is now the duty of those who are elevated as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, to keep the standard. Even one is born in pāpa-yoni, he should be educated to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But that we did not do. We simply hated. When, during Muhammadan period, if the Muhammadan will take some water from the (indistinct) and put in this way, sprinkle over, "Oh, he has become Muhammadan." This has been done. These are stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Now whatever is done is done. Now if you want to unite the whole world again under one banner, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only...</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Should we want to unite the world, or should be want to unite ourselves with Kṛṣṇa?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Should we not rather want to unite ourselves with Kṛṣṇa rather than to unite the world?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Well, unless you are united with Kṛṣṇa, how you can teach the world to become united?</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: But why should one teach the world to become united with Kṛṣṇa (indistinct).</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: To become happy, to be happy. To become really happy. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Everyone feels satisfied, "Oh, I have got Kṛṣṇa (indistinct.)"</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: So the first thing is to get Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: The world can then be looked after later.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. Side by side. Just like what world you can look after? Tell me, what is the particular way you want to look after?</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Well, I mean that with Kṛṣṇa first (indistinct), so what is the first priority?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: First priority is to try...(break)...function.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What do you mean by this first priority? That I want to know from you.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: No, you were talking, Swamiji, about the unification of the world.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. The world is going on. We simply say that you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and you will be happy. Happy in this life, happy in the next life. So you are going on in this way. "In this way" means either out of the four classes. You may name in a different way. I say brāhmaṇa class, you say intelligent class. Do you agree that in the world there is an intelligent class of men?</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Yes, but they can also work.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Everyone is working.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: They can be very good worker.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: When your brain... Brain is the intelligent part of this body. So unless the brain works, nobody can work.</p>
<p>Dr. Singh: Everybody has a brain, all classes.</p>
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