View source for The Buddhists are not so advanced that there is spiritual desire. That they do not understand. But so far the material desirelessness, that is accepted by us also

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[[Category:Buddhist]]
[[Category:They Are Not]]
[[Category:Not Advanced]]
[[Category:There Is]]
[[Category:Spiritual Desire]]
[[Category:Do Not Understand]]
[[Category:As Far As]]
[[Category:Material Desires]]
[[Category:Desireless]]
[[Category:We Accept (Disciples of SP)]]

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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="7" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1974 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1974 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithMrDeshimaruJune131974Paris_0" class="quote" parent="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="115" link="Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris" link_text="Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris">
<div class="heading">They are not so advanced that there is spiritual desire. That they do not understand. But so far the material desirelessness, that is accepted by us also. It is something like this. Just like a child without education at home is simply doing mischief. So the parents want to make him mischievousless. But if the parent does not know that he should be given better engagement, otherwise it cannot be mischievousless, that he does not know.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris|Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Karandhara: They have a similar understanding of karma so far as the material self is concerned, and that the soul or the self takes on different forms until it becomes perfectly selfless. And then it merges back into the nondescript, the cosmic force. So I don't know if this young man's versed in Zen philosophy...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is our definition, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Śūnyam means, you have to give up all material desires. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam ([[Vanisource:CC Madhya 19.167|CC Madhya 19.167]]). But the desire should be synchronized. Ānukulyena kṛṣṇānu..., you have to desire to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Karandhara: Well, they come to the point of trying to give up all material desires. But at that point they say there's nothing, there's no self...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is their ignorance, or they do not understand, or they do not try to explain because the followers will not understand. That is our also point, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam ([[Vanisource:CC Madhya 19.167|CC Madhya 19.167]]), to become desireless. But after becoming desireless, what is it? Just like you become painless from the disease. That means painless means everything finished? Then let me enjoy this pain. After being painless means everything is finished. No. Painless means no material pain but spiritual life. That is painless. (French)</p>
<p>Karandhara: Their point is they come... Zen Buddhism or Buddhism goes as far as trying to obliterate the material ego.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, it is clear as you said, as you said that unless he becomes desireless. That desire means material desire.</p>
<p>Karandhara: Yes. That's actually what they're speaking about when they say desire.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So they are not so advanced that there is spiritual desire. That they do not understand. But so far the material desirelessness, that is accepted by us also. (French) It is something like this. Just like a child without education at home is simply doing mischief. So the parents want to make him  mischievousless. But if the parent does not know that he should be given better engagement, otherwise it cannot be mischievousless, that he does not know. (French)</p>
<p>Pṛthu Putra: He says there is something beyond material desire and spiritual desire.</p>
<p>Karandhara: No, he doesn't understand the definition when we say spiritual then. He's confusing spiritual with something like esoteric. Spiritual is the opposite of material. And beyond material desire, that means beyond gross and subtle desire, when we say spiritual we mean transcendental, the opposite of material.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Purified, purified.</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: Purified desire. (French)</p>
<p>Bhagavān: Prabhupāda says spiritual means pure desire, not that it's opposite but it's pure desire. (French)</p>
<p>Yogeśvara: He says it's still a desire. It may be a pure desire, but...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Because he has no information what is spiritual desire, he thinks material desire is as good as spiritual desire. (French)</p>
<p>Karandhara: They don't have a conception of spiritual. To them everything is material.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, it is ignorance. Just like a man is suffering from disease. He is also lying down. He is also eating. He is also passing stool. And if he is informed that "After your disease is cured, you will also nicely sleep, you will also nicely walk, you will also nicely eat," but he is thinking, "Again eating? Again sleeping? Again...?" This is something like this. "So I don't want to be cured."</p>
<p>Karandhara: Yes, that's actually the psychology behind Zen philosophy.</p>
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