View source for So that means those mathas also are Krsna conscious... We can join them also?

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{{terms|"So that means those mathas also are Krsna conscious"|"We can join them also"}}
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{{compiler|MadhuGopaldas|Rishab}}
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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
[[Category:Questions On... Process of Krsna Consciousness - Bhakti-yoga]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithYogaStudentMarch141975Iran_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="31" link="Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran" link_text="Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran">
<div class="heading">Oh, yes. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious... No, no, no. Any association which is Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can join.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran|Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Indian man: Guruji, according to the bhakti-yoga, a person starting at least in the elementary way of bhakti-yoga...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Huh?</p>
<p>Indian man: In the elementary way, if he starts...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What is that elementary way?</p>
<p>Indian man: Half-heartedly.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no what is that process elementary?</p>
<p>Indian man: In the dvaita way. In the dvaita way, not in the advaita way, assuming that He is different and I am different. That is the elementary way of starting worship.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that is always. Why elementary?</p>
<p>Indian man: He is considering in that way.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, no. Assuming there had been, supposing bhakti-yoga...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga... First of all try to understand what is bhakti-yoga.</p>
<p>Indian man: In the beginning it's relatively easy to be...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no. Explain what is bhakti-yoga.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, what we have understood from the chapters only...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So what is that? What you have understood?</p>
<p>Indian man: Just surrender yourself first...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Indian man: And then depend upon one God or one Deity in whom you have a sort of immense belief or confidence.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, you cannot create God. God is one, already there.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, no, but then I can create in the form of Rāma as one.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is not creation.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, not creation, but I can have my own concentration in the Rāma-mūrti.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all right.</p>
<p>Indian man: Instead of Kṛṣṇa mūrti, I can...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all right.</p>
<p>Indian man: That way.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all.</p>
<p>Guest: Ah, that way. So that way is two devatās, you see.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.</p>
<p>Indian man: So supposing I start simply chanting Rāmeśvara...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Rāma.</p>
<p>Indian man: Rāma or Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are chanting.</p>
<p>Indian man: Any God's name, any divine name...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's nice.</p>
<p>Indian man: You see? And then why is it we are again getting breaks now and then and we trace back our steps?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, you can... If you are following rigidly, there will be no break.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, but rigidity is again a relative term. Rigidity again... What is rigid?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, you said that you begin chanting Rāma.</p>
<p>Indian man: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So follow it.</p>
<p>Indian man: Yes, but then there are breaks.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why break? If you are serious...</p>
<p>Indian man: I don't get...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, if you are serious, there will be no break.</p>
<p>Indian man: Ah. Then serious is also...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then you are not serious.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, no, no, it is not the question of... No. Excuse me, Guruji, that I am not able to explain to you properly. The point is...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then hear me, that if you chant Rāma, then gradually you will get attachment for Rāma. Then how you can give it up?</p>
<p>Indian man: Ah, that is what I am lacking.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That means you haven't got the attachment. Your procedure has been failure.</p>
<p>Indian man: Ah, but sir, what is lacking?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Lacking, there are so many things. But one who is actually chanting Rāma, the result will be that he will get attachment. That is the process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathā āsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. This will increase. Just like if you have gone to school—you have learned, began to learning—then your learning will increase. And one day you will come to the stage of passing M.A. examination. And if it fails, that mean you did not go to school very seriously. Otherwise the general process is you make progress and come to the standard of passing M.A. examination. Then if you have gone to school and you have not followed the rules and regulations, you have not attended the teacher, the lessons, then you failure. That I am saying, that that is not very seriously taken that "I am going to school. I must learn it." If one is serious, then... That is recommended,</p>
:utsāhāt dhairyāt niścayāt
:tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt
:sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge
:sadbhiḥ bhaktiḥ prasidhyati
<p>These are the process. First of all the first process is utsāhaḥ, enthusiasm: "I must advance in spiritual life." That is required. And if you are failing enthusiasm, then in the beginning it is failure.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, but then our attention is towards that thing.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, there no attention. You have failed. That is the proof that you had no attention.</p>
<p>Indian man: Yes, but then God should help us to keep us...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: ([[Vanisource:BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required. Ciraṁ vicinvan. There is a verse,</p>
:athāpi te deva padāmbuja-
:dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
:jānāti tattvaṁ na cānya
:eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan
:([[Vanisource:SB 10.14.29|SB 10.14.29]])
<p>If you simply speculate, it will never help you. You have to receive the favor of the Supreme Lord by your enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. Simply theorizing, speculation will not... Therefore it is said ciraṁ vicinvan. You can go on speculating for millions and millions of years. It will never be successful. Ciram. Ciram means perpetual. That will not help. This is the process, ādau śraddhā. By śraddhā, "Oh, here is God consciousness, very nice. Let us come and see what they are doing." This is called śraddhā, faith, little faith. Then in order to increase that faith you have to associate with the persons who are executing devotional service. That is called sādhu-saṅga ([[Vanisource:CC Madhya 22.83|CC Madhya 22.83]]). The devotees are called sādhu. Therefore we are opening centers, why? To give chance people to make association with the devotees. Sādhu-saṅga. And then sādhu-saṅga, after sādhu-saṅga one who has properly made sādhu-saṅga, the next stage is bhajana-kriyā: how they are executing devotional service. Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then this anartha. Anartha means unwanted things. Just like illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, these are unwanted things. It is not necessary. People have learned them by bad association. When one has got his wife, why he should indulge in illicit sex? This is sinful. When we have got so many things to eat, why shall I go to kill an animal, eat it? So these are anartha. Anartha means "without any meaning." So these things become vanquished. If one is actually engaged in devotional service, the first symptom will be that he is not interested in things which are unwanted, artificial. These are the stages. Then niṣṭhā. Niṣṭhā means firm conviction. Then ruciḥ, taste. Then āsaktiḥ, attachment. Then bhāva, and then prema. So as a student is serious, he gets promotion to next higher class, higher class, higher class, higher class, gradually to the M.A. class. That is natural. But if in the beginning he is not serious, no enthusiasm, then what is the reason that he will be promoted to the higher section? That is not possible.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, enthusiasm is there, but there are breaks.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Breaks means he is not serious.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, but there may be so many other things over which he has no control.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Other things, that is anartha. If you are really enthusiastic, these anarthas will be vanquished automatically. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate ([[Vanisource:BG 9.59 (1972)|BG 9.59]]). They are all Europeans, Americans, they are from the childhood accustomed to meat-eating. How they have given up? Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate: they have got better things to eat, therefore they have given up meat-eating. So the rules and regulation are there; if we follow them strictly, then everything one after another will come, the stages.</p>
<p>Indian man: Then it is not necessary that one should join the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement for that type of helping.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You cannot understand. I have said sādhu-saṅga ([[Vanisource:CC Madhya 22.83|CC Madhya 22.83]]).</p>
<p>Indian man: That's all.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be associated; otherwise how you can understand Kṛṣṇa?</p>
<p>Indian man: But this is not the only association where one can go in for...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: This is the only association for understanding Kṛṣṇa throughout the whole world.</p>
<p>Indian man: But can you prove that?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out another association like this.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, but then...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, you find out another association like this.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, association may not be as pompous as this association is.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore there is no second.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, no, no.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You said that association may be as pompous. That means there is no another association.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, pompous is different from the real purpose.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then I do not know what is your real purpose. You say, "There may not be. There may be." Again you say...</p>
<p>Indian man: No, Guruji, you yourself have quoted the ācāryas.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So one who is following the ācāryas...</p>
<p>Indian man: Were they not Kṛṣṇa conscious?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, they say. Therefore I am giving their proof.</p>
<p>Indian man: So that means those maṭhas also are Kṛṣṇa conscious.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.</p>
<p>Indian man: We can join them also.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.</p>
<p>Indian man: Oh, I thought Kṛṣṇa conscious only for this...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Any association which is Kṛṣṇa conscious, you can join.</p>
<p>Indian man: Thank you for the enlightenment. But I have got one other doubt. You had told that some great scholars like Mahatma Gandhi had confused and they did not believe in the Kṛṣṇa living, He ever lived, and Dr. Radhakrishnan and another also were not clear in enunciating the theory of Kṛṣṇa. I would like to know whether Kṛṣṇa living or not living, is it very important? And will the movement depends upon one Kṛṣṇa living, positive...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. Kṛṣṇa is never not living—He is living. Otherwise how He can be Kṛṣṇa? But if you do not know whether He is living or not living, that is your lack of knowledge.</p>
<p>Indian man: Do you believe Kṛṣṇa...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, first of all settle up this one question, that Kṛṣṇa is always living, and if you do not know whether Kṛṣṇa is living or not living, then your knowledge is imperfect. Therefore your knowledge will not be accepted, because you are imperfect. That is the point.</p>
<p>Indian man: When we speak of Bhagavad-gītā, do we mean...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You cannot say, "Kṛṣṇa is living or not. That doesn't matter." No, it matters.</p>
<p>Indian man: It matters.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is living but you do not know; therefore your knowledge is imperfect.</p>
<p>Indian man: OK. Taking for granted that is the basis, does this movement believe in Kṛṣṇa Bhāgavata or Kṛṣṇa who preached Bhagavad-gītā, only this much or that much. Kṛṣṇa Bhāgavata...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You cannot say that Kṛṣṇa Bhāgavata, Kṛṣṇa as described in the Bhāgavata, should be rejected, and Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā should be accepted. You cannot say that.</p>
<p>Indian man: No, just I wanted to separate Them together because...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why?</p>
<p>Indian man: Some people take Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā. So far as Bhagavad-gītā was preached by a philosopher like Kṛṣṇa, all other things are not so pertinent. But when people associate Kṛṣṇa with Bhāgavata, Kṛṣṇa of Mahābhārata and Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā being a apart from Bhārata, if they all take together there's a lot of confusion.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa of Bhāgavata and Kṛṣṇa, Mahābhārata—the same.</p>
<p>Indian man: Thank you. I know a little about that, but still, if you we take Kṛṣṇa of Bhāgavata, and if you want to say, explain all the things that had happened pertaining to Kṛṣṇa, it would be very difficult to explain the same thing with Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā. That Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā will be separate to everybody.(?)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, therefore... No, therefore... Therefore we say that first of all you understand Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the ABCD of Kṛṣṇa. Then you go to Bhāgavatam.</p>
<p>Dr. Movebhed: I feel... If I am not wrong, I feel that what others have done, that Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. Radhakrishnan, etc., etc., they have taught that Kṛṣṇa of Bhagavad-gītā is very much important for us. Whether He was living or whether He did not live, or anything which was in the name of Kṛṣṇa, that is quite (sic:) impertinent. We want to have the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa as enunciated in Bhagavad-gītā, is just enough to tell others who are in need of...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if you do not believe in that person, how do you understand his philosophy?</p>
<p>Dr. Movebhed: That's where... I think I may be wrong. Please correct me if I go wrong. That's where people have taken little, two to three steps, as my friend has told, first advaita. She wanted to have two...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, why advaita, dvaita? First of all you take the preliminary things, that you are accepting the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, but you have no knowledge of the person who has spoken Bhagavad-gītā. Then where is your understanding? You do not understand the person who has spoken the Bhagavad-gītā. Then what is the meaning of your understanding Bhagavad-gītā?</p>
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