View source for SB 07.12.09 nanv agnih pramada nama... cited

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{{terms|"A man is butter, and woman is fire"|"Butter and fire must be kept apart"|"They have compared woman as fire"|"Woman is compared to fire, and man is compared to a butter pot"|"anyada yavad-artha-krt"|"ghrta-kumbha-samah puman"|"man is considered to be the butter"|"nanv agnih pramada nama"|"sutam api raho jahyad"|"the man is considered as butter"|"woman is like fire"}}
{{notes|VedaBase query: "Wom*n  fire, m*n butter"@25}}
{{compiler|MadhuGopaldas}}
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{{first|05May11}}
{{last|15Sep11}}
{{totals_by_section|BG=0|SB=3|CC=0|OB=0|Lec=3|Con=3|Let=1}}
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[[Category:Woman]]
[[Category:Likeness]]
[[Category:Fire]]
[[Category:Man]]
[[Category:Butter]]
[[Category:Men and Women]]
[[Category:Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 07 - Cited Verses]]
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<div id="Srimad-Bhagavatam" class="section" sec_index="1" parent="compilation" text="Srimad-Bhagavatam"><h2>Srimad-Bhagavatam</h2>
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<div id="SB_Canto_1" class="sub_section" sec_index="1" parent="Srimad-Bhagavatam" text="SB Canto 1"><h3>SB Canto 1</h3>
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<div id="SB11016_0" class="quote" parent="SB_Canto_1" book="SB" index="379" link="SB 1.10.16" link_text="SB 1.10.16">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:SB 1.10.16|SB 1.10.16, Purport]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="purport text"><p style="display: inline;">Human civilization, as conceived of by the sages of India, is to help one free himself from the clutches of illusion. The material beauty of a woman is an illusion because actually the body is made of earth, water, fire, air, etc. But because there is the association of the living spark with matter, it appears to be beautiful. No one is attracted by an earthen doll, even if it is most perfectly prepared to attract the attention of others. The dead body has no beauty because no one will accept the dead body of a so-called beautiful woman. Therefore, the conclusion is that the spirit spark is beautiful, and because of the soul's beauty one is attracted by the beauty of the outward body. The Vedic wisdom, therefore, forbids us to be attracted by false beauty. But because we are now in the darkness of ignorance, the Vedic civilization allows very restricted mixing of woman and man. They say that the woman is considered to be the fire, and the man is considered to be the butter. The butter must melt in association with fire, and therefore they may be brought together only when it is necessary. And shyness is a check to the unrestricted mixing. It is nature's gift, and it must be utilized.</p>
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<div id="SB_Canto_4" class="sub_section" sec_index="4" parent="Srimad-Bhagavatam" text="SB Canto 4"><h3>SB Canto 4</h3>
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<div id="SB42616_0" class="quote" parent="SB_Canto_4" book="SB" index="1129" link="SB 4.26.16" link_text="SB 4.26.16">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:SB 4.26.16|SB 4.26.16, Translation and Purport]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="trans text"><p style="display: inline;">Kindly let me know the whereabouts of that beautiful woman who always saves me when I am drowning in the ocean of danger. By giving me good intelligence at every step, she always saves me.</p>
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<div class="purport text"><p>There is no difference between a good wife and good intelligence. One who possesses good intelligence can deliberate properly and save himself from many dangerous conditions. In material existence there is danger at every step. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (10.14.58) it is said: padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. This material world is not actually a place of residence for an intelligent person or a devotee because here there is danger at every step. Vaikuṇṭha is the real home for the devotee, for there is no anxiety and no danger. Good intelligence means becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said: kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot be called an intelligent person.</p>
<p>Herein we see that King Purañjana was searching after his good wife, who always helped him out of the dangerous situations that always occur in material existence. As already explained, a real wife is dharma-patnī. That is, a woman accepted in marriage by ritualistic ceremony is called dharma-patnī, which signifies that she is accepted in terms of religious principles. Children born of dharma-patnī, or a woman married according to religious principles, inherit the property of the father, but children born of a woman who is not properly married do not inherit the father's property. The word dharma-patnī also refers to a chaste wife. A chaste wife is one who never had any connection with men before her marriage. Once a woman is given the freedom to mingle with all kinds of men in her youth, it is very difficult for her to keep chaste. She generally cannot remain chaste. When butter is brought into the proximity of fire, it melts. The woman is like fire, and man is like the butter. But if one gets a chaste wife, accepted through a religious marriage ritual, she can be of great help when one is threatened by the many dangerous situations of life. Actually such a wife can become the source of all good intelligence. With such a good wife, the family's engagement in the devotional service of the Lord actually makes a home a gṛhastha-āśrama, or household dedicated to spiritual cultivation.</p>
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<div id="SB_Canto_7" class="sub_section" sec_index="7" parent="Srimad-Bhagavatam" text="SB Canto 7"><h3>SB Canto 7</h3>
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<div id="SB7129_0" class="quote" parent="SB_Canto_7" book="SB" index="517" link="SB 7.12.9" link_text="SB 7.12.9">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:SB 7.12.9|SB 7.12.9, Translation and Purport]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="trans text"><p style="display: inline;">Woman is compared to fire, and man is compared to a butter pot. Therefore a man should avoid associating even with his own daughter in a secluded place. Similarly, he should also avoid association with other women. One should associate with women only for important business and not otherwise.</p>
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<div class="purport text"><p>If a butter pot and fire are kept together, the butter within the pot will certainly melt. Woman is compared to fire, and man is compared to a butter pot. However advanced one may be in restraining the senses, it is almost impossible for a man to keep himself controlled in the presence of a woman, even if she is his own daughter, mother or sister. Indeed, his mind is agitated even if one is in the renounced order of life. Therefore, Vedic civilization carefully restricts mingling between men and women. If one cannot understand the basic principle of restraining association between man and woman, he is to be considered an animal. That is the purport of this verse.</p>
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<div id="Lectures" class="section" sec_index="4" parent="compilation" text="Lectures"><h2>Lectures</h2>
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<div id="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" class="sub_section" sec_index="0" parent="Lectures" text="Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures"><h3>Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures</h3>
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<div id="LectureonBG140LondonJuly281973_0" class="quote" parent="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" book="Lec" index="24" link="Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973" link_text="Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973|Lecture on BG 1.40 -- London, July 28, 1973]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="text"><p style="display: inline;">There are many stories of chaste woman. Many stories. There was one disciple of Rāmānujācārya, a very poor. So Rāmānujācārya came in that poor disciple's house and he saw there was no one in the house. So he thought: "What is this? This is my disciple's house. He's family man. Why there is none?" That means he could understand that the door is not locked. Door was closed only. Then he could understand that within the door his wife is there. Therefore he knocked the door, and there was response also, knocking, but she could not come out. That means she, she was so poor that she had no garment. She was keeping herself within the room, naked. So Rāmānujācārya could understand that "There is his wife. Maybe she has no sufficient clothing." So immediately, his own cloth he gave her, within the room, and the woman came out, putting on that... And then offered obeisances. So he could understand the position. They were very, very poor. Even no clothing. So after putting on the cloth, she went to the grocer's shop. Because Rāmānujācārya is there. She must receive. Grocer shop. The grocer knew that this woman is very woman, uh, very poor, so his business was to entice her. But she never agreed, although she was young. Now this woman went to the grocer's shop that: "You know that I am very poor. I require immediately some grains, ghee, and other things. My Guru Mahārāja has come at home. I must receive. So tonight I agree with your proposal. Please give me. Even at the sacrifice of my chastity I want this." So the grocer was very glad. "Oh, this woman, I have canvassed her, I have tried to induce her. She never agreed. And now she's agreeing." So: "All right, you take, whatever you like. Take." So she was given all kinds of food grains, as much as she wanted. And she cooked and gave to the spiritual master and his associates, his servants. Everything was very nice. In the meantime, the husband came, working whole day. And he saw that everything was nicely done. "Guru Mahārāja is fed, and his associates, they're fed." So he asked his wife: "How did you get all these things?" Then she narrated the whole story. Then husband also said: "Yes, you have promised. All right. Take some prasādam and go to him. Because you have promised to meet him this evening. So go." Then the grocer heard the whole story and his mind became changed. "Oh, such a chaste woman. Such a faithful... You are my mother. You take more ingredients, grains, as much as you like, you shall..."</p>
<p>So there are still. That is not very long ago. So this was the training. And the psychology is that woman, the first man she meets and if she is kept carefully, she becomes staunch lover. This is psychology. There is good psychology in maintaining the society. Therefore a woman, especially in India, especially in Bengal, before attaining puberty, she was married. Not to meet the husband unless she attains puberty. But she remained at father's house, but she must know that: "I am married. I have got husband." This psychology. Then she becomes very chaste. Because she thinks of her husband, and becomes more and more devoted. So this arrangement that woman must be married before puberty... Or even after puberty, she must get a husband. So if this dharma... It is called kanyā-dāya, kanyā-dāya. Kanyā-dāya means it is very obligatory that the father must get the daughter married. This is dharma. So if this dharma, or this religious principle is violated, that is... Arjuna is marking: adharma-abhi, abhi-bhava. When people become neglectful of the family tradition and religious principles, adharma abhibhavāt kṛṣṇa praduṣyanti kula-striyaḥ ([[Vanisource:BG 1.40 (1972)|BG 1.40]]). Kula-striyaḥ. Kula-striyaḥ means... Kula means family, and striyaḥ means woman. So woman must be belonging to a respectable family. Therefore it is said: kula-striyaḥ. Not society-girls. Kula-striyaḥ. Of the family. We have got experience in our school, college days. I was sitting in a friend's house and one sweeper woman, sweeper, with broomstick and with, what is called, covering?</p>
<p>Devotee: Shawl.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: She was standing, say, about twenty yards distant from our sitting place. So I asked my friend that: "Your, this sweeper woman wants to come in. She's waiting because we are sitting. She is ashamed to come. So let us come here." So we stood separately. That means although she was a sweeper woman, still we had to honor her to enter. We stood up separately. She was feeling that; "How can I go between two men?" This we have seen in our... So this is Vedic culture. Woman should not be allowed to mix with man. Not allowed. In Japan also, the same system. Before marriage, they can mix. But after marriage they cannot mix. In Japan also I have seen. But in India still the system is there. Woman, without husband, cannot talk with any man. That is also psychological. In the Bhāgavata it is stated that man is like ghee, butterpot, and woman is like fire. Therefore, as they, as soon as there is fire and butter pot, the butter pot must melt. Therefore they should be kept aside. These are the statements. And the śāstra says that in a solitary place you should not remain even with your daughter, even with your sister, even with your mother.</p>
:mātṛ-svasra-duhitravan
:na viviktaḥ sanevaśet
:balavān indriya-grāmo
:vidvāṁs api karṣati
<p>Either your mother or sister, or daughter. No, nobody becomes lusty with mother or sister or daughter. But śāstra says: "Even your mother or sister or daughter, you should not live in a solitary place." Then one may question that "How it is possible?" No. The śāstra says: balavān indriya-grāmaḥ. The senses are so strong that it becomes polluted. "Now it may be, some rascal fools may be polluted like that." No. Śāstra... Vidvāṁs api karṣati. Even the most learned, he can be polluted. So sometimes in India, I am criticized that I keep women and men in the same temple. In India, that is not allowed. No women can live at night. They can come and go. But I defend myself that this is the system of the country, the women and men, they intermingle. How can I check it? Then the women, shall I not give them any chance for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? No, I shall do this chance, I shall give this chance to woman even at the risk. That is my reply.</p>
<p>So therefore chastity is very, very important thing for producing good population, nice population.</p>
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<div id="LectureonBG213ManilaOctober121972_1" class="quote" parent="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" book="Lec" index="61" link="Lecture on BG 2.13 -- Manila, October 12, 1972" link_text="Lecture on BG 2.13 -- Manila, October 12, 1972">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lecture on BG 2.13 -- Manila, October 12, 1972|Lecture on BG 2.13 -- Manila, October 12, 1972]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda:</p>
:dehino 'smin yathā dehe
:kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
:tathā dehāntara-prāptir
:dhīras tatra na muhyati
:([[Vanisource:BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]])
<p>So this dead body, when a man dies, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are dhīra—dhīra means sober—they are not bewildered. There are two classes of men: dhīra and adhīra. Dhīra means those who are not agitated, they know things as they are. So adhīra means those who are uncontrolled. The poet Kalidāsa has described dhīra and adhīra with reference to Lord Śiva in his book Kumāra-sambhava. So dhīra means a person who is not agitated in spite of the cause of agitation being present. There are so many causes of agitation, but a person, in spite of being persuaded by the cause of agitation... Just like a young man and young woman, when they are present, naturally they become agitated. In the śāstras it is said just like fire and butter. If you put butter before the fire, automatically it melts. Similarly, a woman is considered as fire and the man is considered as butter. So this is natural. But a person who is not agitated, he is called dhīra.</p>
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<div id="LectureonBG31720NewYorkMay271966_2" class="quote" parent="Bhagavad-gita_As_It_Is_Lectures" book="Lec" index="123" link="Lecture on BG 3.17-20 -- New York, May 27, 1966" link_text="Lecture on BG 3.17-20 -- New York, May 27, 1966">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Lecture on BG 3.17-20 -- New York, May 27, 1966|Lecture on BG 3.17-20 -- New York, May 27, 1966]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Ṭhākura Haridāsa was a man in renounced order of life. Now for him, it is, there is injunction that those who are in renounced order of life, they should not sit down in a secluded place with woman. Why a renounced order of man? It is... The śāstra injunction is that, so far Vedic literatures are concerned, they are very much strict about association, free association of man and woman. They are very much strict. They have compared woman as fire and man as the pot of butter. So, according to strict Vedic principle, except one's own wife, nobody sit down in a private place with woman, even she happens to be a mother, even she happens to be a daughter, even she happens to be a sister. So much restriction is there. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā nāviviktāsano bhavet: ([[Vanisource:SB 9.19.17|SB 9.19.17]]) "Either she is your mother, either she is your daughter, either she is your sister, don't sit down in a secluded place alone with woman." So such a stricture is there.</p>
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningWalkJuly101975Chicago_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="137" link="Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago" link_text="Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago|Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Satsvarūpa: You were saying that everyone should take the Deity's prasādam. But it sounds like the women are being trained to cook, so...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No, no. The thing is that Deity or at home, she must be very first-class cook. That is wanted. That is according to convenience. If possible, they can take prasādam in the temple. If not possible, they must cook. But she must be first-class cook. That is wanted, either in the temple or outside. In India still, 80%, 90%, they are very happy in their family life, never mind one is poor or rich, because the wife knows these three things: to remain chaste and faithful to the husband, and she knows how to cook nicely. (pause) And women and men should live separately. That is also essential. Butter and fire must be kept apart. Otherwise the butter will melt. You cannot stop it. (pause) The drama was a drug-addicted boy killed some friend?</p>
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<div id="MorningWalkJuly101975Chicago_1" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="137" link="Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago" link_text="Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago|Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in a purport in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you say that even fifty years ago in India the householders had separate apartments for the men and women.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not apartment, quarter.</p>
<p>Devotee: Separate quarters in the apartment. And the husband would not see his wife during the day?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No.</p>
<p>Makhanlal: So is this the standard we should develop in our movement?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. The example is the butter and fire should be kept separate as far as... Otherwise the butter will melt. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā ([[Vanisource:SB 9.19.17|SB 9.19.17]]). The butter and..., means man and woman. A man is butter, and woman is fire. So this is restricted even the man happens to be father, brother or son. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā. People cannot think of sex impulse in the presence of daughter, mother or sister. But śāstra says "No. There is possibility." Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na vivaktāsane vaset: "They should not be kept, should not sit together." Then people may say, "This is impossible. Maybe some tenth-class rascal may be attracted." So the next line says, "No," vidvāṁśāpi karṣati, "it is not the question of tenth-class rascal; even first-class learned, he may be attracted." Not to speak of tenth-class rascal, but first-class learned may be. Not may be. It is a... Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁśāpi karṣati: "The senses are so strong that it can mislead even the most learned scholar."</p>
<p>Jagadīśa: Lord Brahmā was attracted...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, to his daughter. Just see. There is the example. Lord Śiva was attracted by the Mohinī-mūrti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Even if I see a wooden woman, I become attracted." (laughs) He is giving this from his..., to teach us that it is possible. So we shall go now? (break) (in car:) ...takes my advice, then I can keep her on the post and she can do greatest, service to India immediately. Immediately whole public will be her support.</p>
<p>Brahmānanda: What would be your advice to her?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta(?), "Drive away the poverty." This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that's all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī. (end)</p>
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<div id="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="10" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1977 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1977 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningConversationApril301977Bombay_0" class="quote" parent="1977_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="160" link="Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay" link_text="Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay|Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Prabhupāda: Women should be taken care of—as daughter, as wife, as mother, bas. No freedom. Then prostitution. Then spoiled the whole thing. Unwanted children, contraceptive, abortion. Very dangerous. In our society there are girls. They should live separately. They should be given full engagement, taken care of. No mixing. Then it will spoil. Both of them will be... We see big, big workers, sannyāsīs. (Name withheld) fell victim. The example is given: fire and butter. (laughs) You cannot say the butter will not melt even in fire. Woman is like fire, and man is like butter.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The butter should be kept cool.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. In a cool refrigerator, cool-headed. As soon as come in contact with the fire, agitate. The example is given. In Indian... Up to our time restriction was very strict. Now it is slackened.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you see boys and girls freely mixing here, in India.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Without coeducation there is no college.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In American universities they have co-living. The bathrooms are the same bathroom now. They don't even have men's bathroom and women's toilet.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's considered advancement, to come to the point of being animals here.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So our gurukula should be ideal. Not all these boys... You should take care of these things from the very beginning—if you want actually spiritual life. If you want to progress like animals, that is different thing, as the whole world is doing. We want to maintain an ideal institution. People may see. In Christian idea also, the nuns were separate.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays the nuns, every... Twice a week they get their hair set. They wear miniskirt now.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: And so many scandal.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not strict anymore. Priests are smoking cigarettes, watching television.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If there is no training, naturally it will deteriorate.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)</p>
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<div id="Correspondence" class="section" sec_index="6" parent="compilation" text="Correspondence"><h2>Correspondence</h2>
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<div id="1967_Correspondence" class="sub_section" sec_index="2" parent="Correspondence" text="1967 Correspondence"><h3>1967 Correspondence</h3>
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<div id="LettertoSatsvarupaDelhi6October1967_0" class="quote" parent="1967_Correspondence" book="Let" index="165" link="Letter to Satsvarupa -- Delhi 6 October, 1967" link_text="Letter to Satsvarupa -- Delhi 6 October, 1967">
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Letter to Satsvarupa -- Delhi 6 October, 1967|Letter to Satsvarupa -- Delhi 6 October, 1967]]: </span><div style="display: inline;" class="text"><p style="display: inline;">I can understand the hint which you give me about Himavati and Hamsaduta. As a matter of fact woman is like fire and the man is like the butter pot. They must keep apart for healthy atmosphere. But in your country the social system is different. In fact in our society, at least, we should make separate arrangement of residence for the boys and girls. Gradually we have to organize like that.</p>
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