View source for One may say that if there's no independence, then where is the question of initiative in the material world, taking initiative?

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{{terms|"One may say that if there's no independence, then where is the question of initiative in the material world, taking initiative"}}
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{{compiler|MadhuGopaldas|Rishab}}
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{{first|04Aug11}}
{{last|09May12}}
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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1976]]
[[Category:Questions On... Independence, Dependence]]
[[Category:Questions On... Fate, Destiny, Freedom, Free Will]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="9" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1976 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1976 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="MorningWalkJuly51976WashingtonDC_0" class="quote" parent="1976_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="183" link="Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C." link_text="Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.">
<div class="heading">Initiative? What is that question? Initiative I understand, but do you think that by taking initiative of independence you become independent, like this, by dancing and fireworks, you become independent? This is initiative, dancing like dogs, (sings) "We are independent, we are independent." (laughter) Does it have any meaning? Dance like a dog, that's all.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.|Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Vṛṣākapi: Ultimately, they are declaring their independence of God, Kṛṣṇa. They can do as they like.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then where is that independence? You can declare anything. A crazy man can say anything, but where is your independence?</p>
<p>Rūpānuga: In fact, they are bound up.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is the question of independence? Whatever you do not want, it is being forced upon you. So where is your independence? Nobody wants any miseries. So everyone is miserable condition. Struggle for existence means to get out of miserable condition. So where is the independence? Now there is mist. How you can say you are independent? You cannot drive this mist, this fog. Unless sun rises, it cannot be cleared. So where is your independence? There may be so many accidents. Actually, it so happens. But you do not want. But here is an unfortunate. So where is your independence? It is not under your control. If the sun rises, then it can be dissipated. Otherwise, there is no question. Poor thoughts. What is here, this park?</p>
<p>Vṛṣākapi: That's a private community.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Perhaps everyone is hopeful that the sun will rise for them.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, sun is not your father's servant. He may not. It is not under your control. That is the point. You may think so.</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: They can only be hopeful.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's it. Hope against hope. Independence means fully under your control. Whatever you like, you can do. Where is that independence?</p>
:prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
:guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
:ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
:kartāham iti manyate
:([[Vanisource:BG 3.27 (1972)|BG 3.27]])
<p>Foolishly thinking that "I am independent." Has anyone anything to say?</p>
<p>Vṛṣākapi: I was thinking that they are talking of independence, but they cannot even become independent of old age and disease. Their body, they try to control things, but their own body is out of control.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So many things.</p>
<p>Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One may say that if there's no independence, then where is the question of initiative in the material world, taking initiative?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Initiative? What is that question? Initiative I understand, but do you think that by taking initiative of independence you become independent, like this, by dancing and fireworks, you become independent? This is initiative, dancing like dogs, (sings) "We are independent, we are independent." (laughter) Does it have any meaning? Dance like a dog, that's all.</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: It's a big show, that's all.</p>
<p>Yadubara: They will say that they can do so many things.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What they can do? They cannot do anything. At any moment, you can be kicked out, "Get out."</p>
<p>Yadubara: But they have choice within māyā. Isn't that a fact?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Choice?</p>
<p>Yadubara: Choice what to do in the material world, many different fields. They will say that they can do this or that.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Many fields, that is also conditioned. That is conditioned, that is not independence.</p>
<p>Hari-śauri: One has choice to become a dog or a cat, or...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Everything is conditioned. Therefore it is called conditioned life. There is no question of independence. That is foolishness. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that they are not independent, completely under the control of laws of material nature, and still they are thinking independent.</p>
<p>Rūpānuga: It is like a prisoner in the prison house thinking he has some freedom.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That freedom is danda jane raja jana nadi secu bhau.(?) Drowning the man in the water and, "Now you have independence, so breathe." (laughter) So he breathes in, "Ah! Ah!" "All right, you are now a little relieved, all right, again. Again become drown." "Oh! Save me, save me, save me, save me." "All right," take out, "now breathe, independently." This is independence. Danda jane raj jana nadi secu bhai.(?) The rascal does not know "I am breathing independent, but at any moment I can be drowned again." Very correct example, danda jane raja jana nadi secu bhai.(?) No independence. Independence is only there when you fully surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You surrender your all independence to Kṛṣṇa. Then there is. "Kṛṣṇa, I have foolishly acted as independent, so many lives. Now I surrender all my independence at Your lotus feet. If You like, You can kill me; if You like, You can...," that is independence. Otherwise, there is no independence. All foolishness. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. By false egotism, he's thinking that "I am independent."</p>
<p>Rūpānuga: Misusing.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Misusing the energy. Yesterday, some two and half million the government has spent, and we also, combined together, we have spent ten million by power, gas, going there and coming. So many cars. Another ten million. So all these twelve million, three, thirteen million dollars spent for nothing. Dancing like dogs, independence, māyā.</p>
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