View source for Is there any fixed amount of time that one has to be in the Society to get first, hari-nama, initiated?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
[[Category:Questions On... ISKCON - General]]
[[Category:Questions On... Initiation]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="ConversationwiththeGBCMarch271975Mayapur_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="36" link="Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur" link_text="Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur">
<div class="heading">That we have already fixed, six months to one year.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur|Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Atreya Ṛṣi: ...has done, and what everyone likes to do.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all right.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: And then we will decide.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: That's nice. That's nice. So I can go on and read these...?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: I hope this isn't, er... Anyway, this is discussing the responsibilities of the GBC men in their zones. So we've already said to organize opening new temples, to appoint temple presidents for new temples, to be responsible for training all temple presidents and insuring spiritual standards. In the case of major deviation or resignation...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Now, you... First of all, you finish one business. That Oath of Allegiance, so addition, alteration, you have made, complete, so that it may be typed?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Satsvarūpa is...</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: The only thing we've done is comment that Asnani's form hasn't specified on devotional principles.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So make addition, alteration, I say. You amongst yourselves.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, add that one must follow four regulative prin...</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: I can just add what Brahmānanda Mahārāja has.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So do it amongst yourselves.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: All right.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants to finalize.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Discuss and do it, and make a final...</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Oath of Allegiance is a legal document also, isn't it?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's both a legal document and a spiritual document.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Everything we have is spiritual.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: We cannot avoid.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there must be legal also. That's the point.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: So somebody can read it?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So next make this final.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: I recommend that you put Brahmānanda Swami's reco..., on the top part, just...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hmmm? What is that?</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Brahmānanda Swami's proposals, top portion, we'll just add?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever you make, addition, alteration, make it copied.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: And give it to be typed.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Don't keep it. Finish one business.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: So it's just a matter of typing it, then?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: We can't sign anything now. It's not any...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, you are... You make some addition, alteration, to that. So make it complete. Then retype and then sign.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: Yes. Everyone has agreed on what it should be.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Has everyone agreed?</p>
<p>Madhudviṣa: Well, why don't you read it? Why don't you compose it and then let us all see what it says.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: If I can read it out loud... Can I have the other...?</p>
<p>Brahmānanda: We're... Read what the proposal at the top portion...</p>
<p>Madhudviṣa: I give Satsvarūpa the whole thing in that...(?)</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: All right. So the whole thing, then, would read like... This is a proposal that it should read like this: "I, spiritual name, as initiated disciple, and GBC secretary of His Divine Grace..."</p>
<p>Madhudviṣa: Both names should be there.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: No, prabhuji...</p>
<p>Madhudviṣa: Spiritual and, and, and legal name...</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: It should start with this.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: Well, it's not sure what it should start with. That's it.</p>
<p>Madhudviṣa: Both names should be there because a spiritual name is not legal.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Both names. Good.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: "...as GBC secretary of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder..."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You... You... You make one copy, your copy, and make addition, alteration, corrections, and then copy the same thing for other men. That will be easier.</p>
<p>Satsvarūpa: All right.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You... You just fill up one copy, as you are doing. So make addition, alteration, your name, your spiritual name, everything complete. So, following that copy, others will do. (?) Is that all right?</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: I recommend that we keep this one.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Or you can make... Anyone, you can take.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: In this shape.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: You, you can make addition, alteration, everything, and read it complete. Then take that proposal. That's all.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: So maybe, Atreya Ṛṣi, you can write out a final draft of it...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: ...including both things, and then you can read it to everyone.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Where's Brahmānanda Swami?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Is that all right? Should we go on while he's writing?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: We can go on.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: The main purpose of these points is simply to try to put it down in writing what the GBC man can do himself, what things he requires—the whole group—what things he requires to consult with others on, in this way, so there won't be any question "What I can do, what I can't do." Is that all right?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: O.K. (Reading) "To insure that the highest standards, including spiritual temple worship, saṅkīrtana propaganda, recruitment of new devotees and life members, financial management and repayment of all debts are being adhered to."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why debts? Debts should be avoided. Not payment, but one should not make debt.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: But that... All temples... All the temples are in debt.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why? That's not... Debts are very wrong. (?)</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Either they owe BBT money or they owe bank money.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is not good. Debts should be... No debts. If any temple wants to make debt, it must be sanctioned by the GBC committee.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Make it clear.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: That's nice.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not that he whimsically, the president, and put the Society into debts, unless it is sanctioned.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: That's included in here, more or, more or less.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Make it clear: "They cannot create any debt."</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Just like to come to this festival has put everyone in debt.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is risky. That is risky.</p>
<p>Rūpānuga: Be very specific about it.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Right. The next point is to insure...</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Let me just make sure this is understood. Any, any debts that any temple has, is going to make, has to be approved by the GBC representative.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you say debt, do you mean a loan?</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Loan.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: But...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Loan is also debt.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. But if they are buying BBT books, if... On the books it may seem debt, but in fact he should know that he's going to pay for it in the very near fu... That you do not consider need approval, do you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: The books are sold on consignment.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, and that is all right. That is all right.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: If they fall behind, then it becomes a debt.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's different. Thirty days pay...</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, as long as he meets the terms, it's not a debt. It's not a loan.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's it.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: As soon as it goes over the term, it's unapproved.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then a loan where you're paying on time, is that considered a debt?</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. That's a loan. That has to be approved. That has to be, as much as possible, avoided. In other words, everything you're doing, more or less, on cash basis.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: You don't depend on tomorrow.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Otherwise, sometimes a president may leave, leaving so many debts, so many loans, so many this, so many that.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: This is our standard of management. Listen. If the temple president doesn't understand it, teach him.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: That's right.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's right. So all these things you write. Otherwise you forget.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Yeah, that, we'll... The next point is to insure that the proper criterion for recommending candidates for initiation be followed...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is being done.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: ...and to insure that the...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The president recommends, or the GBC recommends.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any fixed amount of time that one has to be in the Society to get first, hari-nāma, initiated? Because I...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That we have already fixed, six months to one year.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Six months to one year. And for brāhmaṇa initiation?</p>
<p>Rūpānuga: One year, you said, after that.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, within one year. That's all. If one, within one year, one does not become to the standard, then he's unfit.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: The recommendation here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Generally by the president.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, that the president's recommendation is overseeing, is scrutinized, by GBC, so that when Your Divine Grace gets a recommendation, it's been, by someone else, it's been checked. Do you think it's unnecessary?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: It is.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Unnecessary. Jaya Prabhupāda.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: If one is not personally sincere, however he is checked...</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, so this is unnecessary.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: ...then he's useless. Useless.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: In other words, an addition, "directly," directly... You know we just have to put down what Prabhupāda... Directly president can...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Generally, it is one year after. (?)</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Put it down.</p>
<p>Jayatirtha: Right, right.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: At least not for... (?)</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Jayatīrtha, put... "Directly goes..."</p>
<p>Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, after first initiation, one has to wait one year to get second initiation?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Six months.</p>
<p>Rūpānuga: At least six months.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Six months after first initiation. All right. So the next role for the GBC man is to act as the designated representative of Śrīla Prabhupāda to settle all philosophic, procedural disputes which may arise and are not settled at the temple level. In other words, any philosophic question a temple president can't ans...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, you... Eh?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: If there's some philosophic question and the temple president can't answer it, then the GBC...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then GBC should be consulted. And if the GBC cannot answer, then I'll answer.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Right. Or, if there's some quarrel—one man doesn't like another man, and the temple president can't solve it-then...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What is quarrel?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: ...the GBC man can solve it.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: There is no question of quarrel. Quarrel is material.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Yes. But it is the Age of Quarrel.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Quarrel is not good.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: The next point is to obtain reports from the temple presidents, financial reports, like this, to see that things are being looked up.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The general report should be submitted at least monthly.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Yes. So "to obtain all reports on a timely basis..."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: To the board of the GBC or to the individual, zonal GBC. Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: We have kind of a system outlined in here, how reports can be done. It's a technical thing, but...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: But they have that everyone is chanting sixteen rounds, everyone is following the principles, "so much money received, so much money deposited in the bank."</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Right.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: "And this is the balance." And these are general (?) report. That's all.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Right. Yeah, we have...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The financial means what they have collected, what they have spent.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Right.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: And general reporting: "Yes, everyone is chanting," or "He is not chanting in spite of warning," like that.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: This is very good.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: So we have some guidelines in here about that. So, so should I go on with this?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: So then the next thing, besides having a zonal responsibility, a GBC man may have a functional responsibility, like we've already discussed.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Functional, main functional responsibility is to go and see that the temple regular work is going on, the president is doing nicely, to check in this way. You can sit down in the class, in the..., and see how things are going on. That's it.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: That's it. Now, one point we've included that we haven't really done before is the idea of establishing committees and individual service...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Committee, I shall appoint also, if there is any need. Amongst the GBC, I shall pick up some members and make a committee for a particular...</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: For example, we put down that there may be a regional committee.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Just like in Europe, we have a regional committee for managing, I understand...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: What is that regional co...?</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: Isn't it Bhagavān, Haṁsadūta...?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, I have said that Haṁsadūta, Bhagavān and Brahmānanda may...</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: So it's a kind of regional committee for managing.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Jayatīrtha: So we similarly...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That we can change also. For the time being, it is going on.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: I think what Śrīla Prabhupāda has said to us is that if we have very close cooperation, the spirit of committee consultation always exists...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: Like if Bhagavān dāsa is in U.S., then Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and Rūpānuga Prabhu will consult with him, like they always consult with each other.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Atreya Ṛṣi: They should always... And this spirit should go on amongst the twelve. Or if I'm in Tehran, and if there is a financial matter...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't bring politics. Then it will be ruined.</p>
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