View source for Can you say exactly the point where Christians are not obedient. Do you see any points here by your visit to the Christian countries and you like to say for us? It is a help for us to say exactly the point

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{{terms|"Can you say exactly the point where Christians are not obedient. Do you see any points here by your visit to the Christian countries and you like to say for us? It is a help for us to say exactly the point"}}
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{{compiler|MadhuGopaldas|Rishab}}
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{{first|03Jul11}}
{{last|09May12}}
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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1974]]
[[Category:Questions On... Christianity]]
[[Category:Questions From... Religious Clergy]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="7" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1974 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1974 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationwithPaterEmmanuelABenedictineMonkJune221974Germany_0" class="quote" parent="1974_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="128" link="Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany" link_text="Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany">
<div class="heading">Yes. The first point is that your commandment is "Thou shalt not kill," and you are maintaining regularly slaughterhouse. The first commandment is disobeyed. Do you agree or not?
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany|Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Pater Emmanuel: Allow you a question? You know that we Christians are also preaching the love of God, and we seek to fulfill the love of God and to serve God with all our heart and soul. And what different from your movement who will the same? And why do you send your disciples in these Christian countries to preach the love of God when the gospel of Jesus Christ is also preaching the love of God, God love?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: But if you don't mind, I can say that the Christians are not obeying the orders of God. Do you agree or not?</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: I agree.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then where is love? If you disobey the orders of God, then where is your love? Therefore we have come here to teach them to love God. If you love me, you cannot disobey me. And if you disobey me, that love is not real.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: Will that means that Christianity has to change their customs or the Christianity, Roman Catholic or Protestant, must return to the source?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: (aside) You can sit on the chair if you like.</p>
<p>Guest: No, I like to sit, thank you.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not only Christianity, everywhere, the people now do not love God, but they love dog. Yes. Therefore this movement is required, awakening of God consciousness. Not the Christians, they are only to be accused, but Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They are simply stamp, but no obedience to God. This is the position.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: Can you say exactly the point where Christians are not obedient. Do you see any points here by your visit to the Christian countries and you like to say for us? It is a help for us to say exactly the point.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. The first point is that your commandment is "Thou shalt not kill," and you are maintaining regularly slaughterhouse. The first commandment is disobeyed. Do you agree or not?</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: Um...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Or in my front the animals are being kept for being killed.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: I personally agree.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's it.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: I personally agree.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore, actually, if Christians are lover, they must stop immediately this animal killing.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: And you think it's a principle point, the top point.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: But if you miss one point, if you commit mistake in calculation in one point, the more you make calculation, add and subtract, it is all mistake. (German) Just like in the bank they daily make a trial balance, and if there is one mistake anywhere, the trial balance does not come.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: I understand.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: This is called ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176). If you... I will explain. Ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya means there is a logic of accepting half of the chicken. The chicken or what is called, cock, that?</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Oh, the rooster, hens.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hens, rooster, rooster. No, the female is called hen?</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Hen.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that "This mouthpiece is expensive because I have to give to eat. Better cut it." So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because it's a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole, this side and that side, then business will go on. (German)</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: In the Christian tradition... (German)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The first commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But they are killing. The first point is disobedient. Then where is love of God?</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: (German) It is in the relation of man. "Don't kill," it says, the Christianity understands...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why they understand like that? That means that Lord Christ was not sufficiently educated to use the right word, "murder"? Does it mean so? There are two words, killing and murder. Murder is especially meant for the human being. So do you think that Christ was not learned enough to use the word murder instead of "killing"? "Killing" means any kind of killing, especially animal killing. Otherwise you should have frankly openly used the word, "Thou shall not murder." Even if it is meant like that, so does it mean that he was preaching amongst the murderers? They are very first-class men? They are all murderers? Therefore the injunction. This kind of interpretation does not appeal to us. (German)</p>
<p>German devotee: He said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this commandment, "Thou shall not kill," is found in the Old Testament, and when Jesus was talking...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I do not know many testament, but I see in the Ten Commandments these words are there. If you want to support it by many testaments, that is, of course, your business, but we take the direct meaning, "Thou shall not kill"—the Christians should not kill. Interpretation you can give in your own way to support your business, but we see openly. If we can understand openly, there is no need of interpretation. (German)</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: No, I understand.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Why should we interpret? Interpretation is required when the things are not clear. Here it is clear, "Thou shall not kill," plainly advised. Why should we interpret? (German)</p>
<p>German devotee: (translating for Pater Emmanuel:) To eat plants, is it not killing? To eat vegetables, is it not killing?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Then vegetable killing and animal killing is the same?</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: It's not the same. Not the same. But human killing and animal killing is also the same.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So we are not killing. Our Vaiṣṇava philosophy, we do not kill even vegetable because our Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati ([[Vanisource:BG 9.26 (1972)|BG 9.26]]). (German)</p>
<p>German devotee: Should I read this in Sanskrit, Śrīla Prabhupāda?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi bhakty-upahṛtam.</p>
<p>German devotee: (reads translation in German)</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: So we offer Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wants: "Give me this foodstuff," so we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa, and we take it. Therefore, if for killing this patraṁ puṣpam there is sin, that is Kṛṣṇa's sin, not my sin. (German) But Kṛṣṇa, God, apāpa-viddham, sinful reaction cannot take place to Him. Apāpa-viddham. Pāpa means sinful. Just like the sun is powerful. It can absorb urine, but you cannot drink urine. (German) So the injunction is tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya ([[Vanisource:SB 10.33.29|SB 10.33.29]]). One who is very powerful... Just like a king. He orders, "Kill this man. Murder." He commits murder regularly, chopped up. But he is not under the law, being hanged, because he is very powerful. But an ordinary man, if he commits murder, he will be hanged. When there is fight the commander in chief says, "You kill them," and the soldier kills and he gets gold medal. But the same soldier, when he kills a single person at home, he is hanged. Therefore this injunction, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam ([[Vanisource:BG 9.26 (1972)|BG 9.26]]), "This vegetables give Me. I shall eat, and you take the prasādam." So we are not sinful.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: And Kṛṣṇa cannot give the same permission for the animals?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes, the animal kingdom in the nature's way... Just like the grass is the food of the cow, and the cow is the food for man, but not for civilized man, religious man. The crude man. (German) (break) The perfect human being is described: śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam. Find out. (break) ...killing of animals and child, Christ's name. Then it will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but to request you that your Christian religion prohibit this and encourages chanting of name of the Lord. So you kindly do it, that's all. (German)</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: Thank you.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: I think those who are Christian priests, they should cooperate with this movement, chant the name of Christ or Christo and stop animal killing. This is according to Bible. This is not according to my philosophy, but their Christian philosophy. Simply let them do it and see how the situation becomes nice.</p>
<p>Pater Emmanuel: I am very thankful to you for this...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (everyone goes out-end of this discussion) (Break)</p>
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