View source for Are they less fallen (the jivas in brahmajyoti) because they are doing some service by lighting it up?

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[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1971]]
[[Category:Questions On... Discrepancies, Slips, Falldowns]]
[[Category:Questions On... Liberation, Salvation]]
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<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
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<div id="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="4" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1971 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1971 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
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<div id="RoomConversationAugust171971London_0" class="quote" parent="1971_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="20" link="Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London" link_text="Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London">
<div class="heading">It is clearly stated: aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Aviśuddha. Buddhi means intelligence, aviśuddha means unclean, contaminated. They think that they have become liberated, but śāstra says "No, it is not yet liberated." Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Still there is contamination.
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<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London|Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Haṁsadūta: And Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the spiritual world, everything is composed of cintāmaṇi, just like here everything is composed of atoms. So suppose someone develops a spiritual form in the spiritual sky. That form, I mean, that cintāmaṇi, they are living entities also? Are they conscious entities or is that an expansion of the jīva soul's own potency? Just like if someone develops the form of a boy, cowherds boy with Kṛṣṇa, is that an expansion of his potency, of that living spirit soul's potency?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That you consider. That we imagine.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: That's why I'm asking. Or like in this world, so many living entities are forming of one spiritual form.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: In one sense it is right. They are spiritual molecules. Yes. Here also, spiritual molecules, but here it is called material because there is no sense of Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: Forgetfulness. They are covered by ignorance.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: The cowherd boy with Kṛṣṇa, he is also vibhinnāṁśa expansion. Correct?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: But he's remembering. He is remembering, therefore he is...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: He may not remember.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Well, he's with Kṛṣṇa, he loves Kṛṣṇa. Therefore...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Just like when cowherds boy were playing, they did not know Kṛṣṇa is God. They did not know. They did not care to know.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Yes, but they love Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: The love is there. When the love is there, that is spiritual.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Yes. And then they are not fallen. That is not fallen.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: They're not separated any more.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That you should understand. Not that remembering or not remembering. Even in the spiritual world, they do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: The thing that was bothering me when I thought of this, that the brahma-jyotir, if it is jīvas, that they're all fallen souls, then I thought...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Fallen anywhere. When Kṛṣṇa is forgotten, that is fallen.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Yes. But what I thought was just like in a room there is so many particles of light. Already inconceivable. And, then the whole brahma-jyotir is all fallen souls, and they become so inconceivable...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not so fallen as they are in the matter.</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: Yes. Separated.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: But not in their constitutional position.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: They're not as fallen as those who are in this material.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: That's right. But still if they go there, they will sometimes come back here again.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not pure. They are not pure. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ ([[Vanisource:SB 10.2.32|SB 10.2.32]]). Aviśuddha. Aviśuddha means not purified.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Are they less fallen because they are doing some service by lighting it up?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: It is clearly stated: aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Aviśuddha. Buddhi means intelligence, aviśuddha means unclean, contaminated.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Unclean intelligence. So they realize...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: They think that they have become liberated, but śāstra says "No, it is not yet liberated." Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Still there is contamination.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: I see. It was just making my head spin to think of so many fallen souls. If there they also, to some extent they also fall. Here there are so many fallen souls. Then...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Ananta. You cannot say how many. Ananta. Anantāya kalpate. Ananta means unlimited number. There is no question of counting.</p>
<p>Śyāmasundara: Our brain is so tiny.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore acintya. Therefore acintya, inconceivable. (pause) Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply try to love Him. That is perfection. That's all. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can understand. Kṛṣṇa Himself cannot understand Himself. Yes. (laughter) He's so acintya. And what to speak of us. Therefore our only business: how to love Kṛṣṇa, how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is perfection. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can. Kṛṣṇa Himself cannot understand.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: The more we understand, the more we can convince others.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. Better you understand this, that you cannot understand. This understanding is better.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: No, but what I said is that...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That "I cannot understand," this understanding.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: Then you have to give up. Then just simply love Kṛṣṇa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. This is real understanding, that "Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood. Simply let me love as far as possible, as I can, whatever is my, in my capacity." That is perfection.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Yes. But still, we deal with this philosophy for...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes. On the whole, as Kṛṣṇa says, we can understand that. That's all. You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa fully. It is not possible.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: But even... Just like this book, this is for convincing people. This book is for convincing them to understand.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No, still, we understand better than them.</p>
<p>Revatīnandana: Yes.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not understandable does not mean that we are also as fool as they are. Rather, Kṛṣṇa is so big that He is understandable even by us, and what to, about these rascals. What you can understand? We cannot understand. This should be the position, that "We are constantly serving Kṛṣṇa, we cannot understand Him. And what, rascal, you can understand?" The attitude should be taken like that.</p>
<p>Haṁsadūta: We just accept whatever Kṛṣṇa says...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's it.</p>
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